Want to make money the unethical way? Try Rape-shipping!

[Ledhed]

Some of you have noticed lately on ebay that alot of sellers, in an attempt to sneak in some extra money without having to pay final amount fees, have been putting up auctions with ridiculously low starting bids and reserves and astronomical shipping costs. We're talking $20 to ship one game with USPS Priority. I used to only see it on occasion, now it's happening on almost every goddamn auction I see.

I for one think it is completely unethical. It certainly isn't illegal, and anyone who doesn't read the shipping before a bid has it coming, but unethical and wrong nonetheless. Your thoughts on the subject fellow CAGs?

[Cornfedwb]

Well yea, its on every auction these days.. and its annoying as hell. I basically don't even look for games on Ebay anymore because of it.

Although technically, it is against Ebay's rules to profit on shipping, so you could report those auctions.

[HOTSHIET]

I pay more attention to the shipping cost than anything else because that kills a lot of deals on ebay. Damn those auctioners!

[dtcarson]

Ditto to all that has been said.
But people think with their wallets--if a game is 1.00 and shipping is 19.00, they would rather pay that 20 bucks to reward someone for 'breaking the rules' than buy an auction that is 21.00 with free shipping. I will pay more to avoid dealing with a scumbag cheapass [using the bad meaning of cheapass].
I don't know if it does anything, but if I see an auction that has 'unreasonable' shipping charges, I do report it. And no, I haven't bought a game or dvd from Ebay in many months for precisely this reason.

[The Gifuto]

Well yea, its on every auction these days.. and its annoying as hell. I basically don't even look for games on Ebay anymore because of it.

Although technically, it is against Ebay's rules to profit on shipping, so you could report those auctions.

For those interested, here's the address for reporting the seller:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-circumventing.html

Shipping charges on EBay has gotten way out of hand. I suppose I could see charging an extra $1.00 or so to cover their Paypal fees, but charging $7.00 to ship a game media rate is out of control.

[Ledhed]

Yeah, it's dispicable but you shouldn't be on eBay (or purchasing anything online) if you aren't careful enough to see through this tactic.

Thankfully I am, and I have no sympathy for those who don't read over the entire auction before bidding. I just figured ebay would be a little more hard nosed about this, seeing as it's basically a way to avoid final listing fees. Like cornfed said, you can report it, but that shouldn't be our job.

[bmulligan]

I've never charged a handling fee but technically, a "handling" charge can be just about anything you want to charge. I wouldn't bother reporting it, Ebay won't do anything. If you don't like it, then just don't buy from these people. If enough of you boycott them, they'll start being more reasonable to get sales.

[dtcarson]

I suppose I could see charging an extra $1.00 or so to cover their Paypal fees, .

Even that is against Paypal/Ebay policies. I know, here come the people bitching about how those are 'unfair' and 'expensive' policies [compared to the alternative, they're cheap as hell, but anyway], but that doesn't give them the right to violate a contract they agreed to.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html
"Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of checks, money orders, electronic transfers or credit cards. Such costs should be built into the price of the item....some forms of payment surcharges, such as credit card surcharges, are forbidden under the laws of many states."

Many of them get away with it for two reasons:
* people are cheapasses [again, in the bad way], and don't care if the 20.00 shipping charge is going to elude Ebay fees or cover Paypal fees [check out how many pirated dvd's or cd's are available on Ebay for more proof of this]
* that 'and handling' part of the phrase 's&h.' 'I charge for my time, my packaging, my electrons used to post the auction, my gas to the post office, my gas on the way back, oh yeah, my scotch tape, etc.' Then you're obviously not a smart seller--there are easy, cheap, free ways to minimize your cost and time on all of those.

[Rodego]

I sell games on ebay every now and then, and I charge around $3 for shipping to cover supplies and the mailing, and because I charge lower than most people, I have never had any trouble selling anything. I do see a lot of people charging insane amounts for shipping though.

[abrannan]

I'd love to see ebay include a shipping price column in the search results, so you can see the total cost for an auction.

[dtcarson]

That's more than fair, I'd bid on your auction [well, how do you ship? Media mail or First Class?]
On most of my auctions I ship Priority with Delivery Confirmation for 5 bucks flat.

[jshorr]

Well yea, its on every auction these days.. and its annoying as hell. I basically don't even look for games on Ebay anymore because of it.

Although technically, it is against Ebay's rules to profit on shipping, so you could report those auctions.

For those interested, here's the address for reporting the seller:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-circumventing.html

Shipping charges on EBay has gotten way out of hand. I suppose I could see charging an extra $1.00 or so to cover their Paypal fees, but charging $7.00 to ship a game media rate is out of control.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I think calling $7 out of control is taking it too far. I sell all the time on ebay and I only charge actual shipping cost but I'm lucky enough that there's a post office near my job that I can walk to whenever I like. And I'm not doing it to make a living. You are allowed to charge a handling fee. If the shipping was only $2 and someone wanted to charge $5 handling I'd say that's very high, and I wouldn't pay it, but I don't think it's out of control.

[Indiana]

So since it is against ebay's policy can you bid, win and then report to ebay that the shipping is unfair?

[Starky27]

This is why I put "Cheap Shipping" in my auction titles. I only charge the $1.20 for the padded envelope and then the $2-3 for shipping. And since I'm such a stickler I normally round it off so the end auction price will be a round number so I actually take a small hit on the shipping...

[bmulligan]

You guys ahe missing the point: Shipping & handling is the operative term here. And these people may not be far off base. $20 seems excessive, but if you tally up the costs apart from postage such as styrofoam, bubble wrap, box, time to process, time to go to the Post office, fuel, car maintenence, insurance, it adds up; especially if you are doing it as a business, you ave to include all of these costs as overhead.

In my field of employ I charge $50+ for an hours labor. If it takes 1/2 hour during my day to pack an item, drive to the post office and wait in line to mail it, then $25 is a fair price for me to charge as handling.
I don't charge this way because it's just a hobby, but some people have to in order to turn a profit. It's called freedom, folks. If you don't like it, then don't bid.

I really hate to have to defend these assholes on Ebay who do this, but some of you have a warped idea of fairness. Fairness in this case means you can laugh and never buy from these types of people.

[dtcarson]

You don't need to go to the PO to mail most packages [i'm thinking a game or DVD, either Media Mail, First Class, or Priority.]
Buy a ten-dollar scale to weigh stuff [I've had mine for years], if you ship enough stuff sign up through Stamps.com or Estamps [they have a deal where they'll give you a scale]; I used to be with them till they started charging 10 bucks a month. Buy some bubblewrap, kraft paper, and tape next time you go to Target, or use those plastic and paper bags you get from the grocery store. Or go Priority mail--the USPS will give you free boxes, free tape, all you have to do is supply the padding [again, use those plastic bags].
Then you can either use Estamps to print postage, or just stick stamps on; or print out a Priority Mail label [on regular paper] with free delivery confirmation for cost, and tell USPS.com you have a package for them to pick up.
A business, or a seller, can maximize his profits one of three ways: fire employees/lower benefits/wages [not an issue for ebay, in general]; increase prices; decrease operating costs. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of 'decreasing costs' where possible, and 'passing the savings on to the consumer.' Or making more profit. But not by using some shady 'shipping and handling' fees. Shoot, if we consider handling, if you make 15.00 $ an hour at your job, and it takes you an hour to List the auction, Pack the item, Drive to PO, Wait in line, Send item, Drive home, we should start seeing s/h costs of 16-20 bucks.

[notfromtexas]

Even better is when a Seller doesnt post his shipping cost. Then he surprises you with a 12 dollar shipping fee for a cd. damn dirty ebay sellers can go to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ledhed]

My only point is that it's really shifty and unethical. To my knowledge it isn't illegal, so that's not the road I'm taking on it.

My point is that it is a deliberate attempt to either sucker buyers (like I said, you have it coming if you don't read the auction) or avoid ebay fees. I know I shouldn't expect honesty in the realm of competitive commerce, but it can be a little tiresome at times. I just think it's crazy that 'handling' can be an excuse for this kind of thing. It's like when people win million-dollar lawsuits on the grounds of 'pain and suffering.' People should be compensated, but a line must be drawn before it becomes abused.

[The Gifuto]

dtcarson, that's some good info. Thanks

As a side note, you can order supplies right from usps.com and they'll deliver them right to your door (for free!)

[BigHow]

I'd love to see ebay include a shipping price column in the search results, so you can see the total cost for an auction.

If you watch an item on "My Ebay", it'll generally show the shipping price in addition to the current high bid.

[emceelokey]

as much as I hate the excessive shipping costs it makes it easier for me to sell stuff because I can put "$3.00 ship" on the title and people will be all over it. What's funny is that people are more willing to spend $20 on an item with $3.00 of that going to shipping opposed to spending the same amount but with $8.00 going to shipping. Still 20 bucks but people are more likely to do it.

[howlinmad]

I usually end up paying extra than what I charge unfortunatly.

[Trakan]

I agree with the OP. Shipping has gotten way out of hand. I feel sorry for the guy who bids thinking he won the auction for a buck, only to find that he actually paid 21. :(

[WhipSmartBanky]

You guys ahe missing the point: Shipping & handling is the operative term here. And these people may not be far off base. $20 seems excessive, but if you tally up the costs apart from postage such as styrofoam, bubble wrap, box, time to process, time to go to the Post office, fuel, car maintenence, insurance, it adds up; especially if you are doing it as a business, you ave to include all of these costs as overhead.

When you go to the store and buy a product, doesn't the store usually roll the overhead into the price of the product itself and not tack it on at the register after you decided to buy it?

Believe me, I agree that time, energy, fees, packing materials, etc. all need to be compensated for, but (especially if you're a business) why not roll that into the minimum bid, reserve, or BIN price? Instead, they'd rather than lure people in with the appeal of a low product cost then nail them in the back end with a "handling" charge on top of the actual shipping cost.

[dtcarson]

Exactly.
It'd be like going to a restaurant that offers 'Free Buffet!' and then getting a bill for 15.00 for your Coke.

And, the only two reasons for the Ebay sellers put it in the 'shipping' column is to either have a more attractive opening bid [you can always use a reserve, if you don't have faith in your product] or to evade ebay fees.

[manofpeace20]

My take is that those people trying to rip people off with insane shipping are looking to screw people over. I'm not talking about shipping either, I'm talking about shipping a faulty product. I'd rather pay a little extra than deal with someone who could potentially have ill intentions.

[johnnyoski]

Sometimes the item's selling price will be low enough to offset the high shipping cost.
If my total cost for one item is the same as another item with lower shipping it doesn't matter to me. The seller is just trying to put an extra couple bucks in his/her pocket instead of Ebay's.
Now if two items are listed and worth say $50 and one guy charges $10 shipping and the other is only $3 then any halfway intelligent buyer will just let the auction with a higher shipping cost sit there and rot.

[dtcarson]

manofpeace20: That's partly my thinking too--if they'll try to screw Ebay, how can I be guaranteed of even getting my product?

johnnyoski: "The seller is just trying to put an extra couple bucks in his/her pocket instead of Ebay's."
In this scenario, that is the exact definition of 'evading Ebay fees' which is clearly stated in their help files, and which is tacitly agreed to by anyone posting an auction. I'm all for maximizing profit, but I'm also for playing by the rules, and cheating on S/H charges is not playing by the rules. if Ebay's too expensive, then sell somewhere else. If you want more profit, cut your costs, or have a higher reserve price. Just because someone doesn't agree with the price structure doesn't mean they get to break the rules. And tthat merely reiterates the issue manofpeace20 mentioned.

[coolsteel]

Doesn't bother me anymore, first thing i do is look at the shipping cost , if it is over what I know the post office will be charging by more then a couple of bucks I just don't bid. Unless of course like emceelokey said it ends up costing the same as other auctions with cheaper shipping usually end at.

[wubb]

I do get annoyed with seeing auction after auction where the S&H is $8+. As long as they state their S&H cost up front it's fine, but it really wastes a lot of time wading through all of these auctions that I think are probably at a price point I would like only to find the S&H kills it.

I saw one the other day where the guy was charging a semi high S&H and had some disclaimer like "Due to the very low starting bids on these auctions we can not combine shipping!" Uh, whatever.

[Drocket]

Something else I've noticed is that the higher the shipping and handling fee, the crappier the packaging tends to be. I've bought a lot of items with 'cheap' shipping, and virtually every one of them has arrived in a box, with bubble wrap and other packaging. A couple of times I've broken down and bought something that had a rather high S&H fee (because they were the only ones offering the item that I wanted), and both times I got items shoved into a cheap padded envelop (and one time it was a USED padded envelop, held together by packaging tape.)

There are probably some exceptions, but IMHO, the people who charge high shipping are in most cases ripoff artists.

[dtcarson]

That's an interesting point. I haven't bought enough recently to make a mass judgement, but in general, when I get an item and think, 'Man, did they go cheap on the shipping or what,' that generaly was one of the higher priced s/h costs.

[jmcc]

You guys ahe missing the point: Shipping & handling is the operative term here. And these people may not be far off base. $20 seems excessive, but if you tally up the costs apart from postage such as styrofoam, bubble wrap, box, time to process, time to go to the Post office, fuel, car maintenence, insurance, it adds up; especially if you are doing it as a business, you ave to include all of these costs as overhead.

In my field of employ I charge $50+ for an hours labor. If it takes 1/2 hour during my day to pack an item, drive to the post office and wait in line to mail it, then $25 is a fair price for me to charge as handling.
I don't charge this way because it's just a hobby, but some people have to in order to turn a profit. It's called freedom, folks. If you don't like it, then don't bid.

I really hate to have to defend these assholes on Ebay who do this, but some of you have a warped idea of fairness. Fairness in this case means you can laugh and never buy from these types of people.

How does that figure in? In the end the buyer is bidding on the game, packaging and postage. You can't just say "well this auction took up a lot of my time to hold up my end of, so I'm entitled to charge you extra for that time that got spent." The seller assumes, when he lists, the duty of getting the item to the seller. If it's inconvenient, think about that before you list and add it into the start price. It's like a store employee demanding extra to go back to the stockroom and get you an item.

[guardian_owl]

I was a bit angry, won an auction of e-reader cards, costs is $4 shipping, but how does he send it? In a 3X5 normal envelop with 1 stamp, couldn't have cost him more than $.75. :evil:

[bignick]

while you cant profit from shipping, you cant forget about the handling charge. ebay and paypal fees are out of control. While I dont jack up shipping that much. I add $2-$3 for my time.

[spankmenow420]

what is a fair charge for shipping, if you are a company selling many items on ebay, it does cost money to pay for the handling part, which is cost of employees, so i think about $5-$6.00 for shipping costs is reasonable, you'd be surprised what it costs to prepare orders for companies like overstock.

[dtcarson]

Overstock: Hm...."Shipping on most orders to the lower 48 states of America is only $2.95."
And yes, "Media items, such as Books, Movies, Music, Video Games, Magazines, and Software, do not qualify for $2.95 shipping. "
But:
Shipping for Simpsons Hit and Run:
Shipping: Only $1.40

Regarding ebay and paypal fees:
You may think they're out of control. I don't. Regardless, by listing an auction on ebay or by accepting paypal you agreed to not evade fees, or charge for paypal acceptance fees. You have every right to pay NO fees. Just don't use Ebay or Paypal, simple as that.
The last time I looked for the cost to place a classified ad in a local paper, I believe it was around 15 bucks for five placements. Unless you end up selling a car for 25k, Ebay's fees beat the crap out of those prices, especially considering the exposure.

[spankmenow420]

My reference to overstock.com was reference to the costs which are incurred by the company for shipping a product, i have a friend in the company and stated they are losing money on shipping games, but make money on other items.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Some of you have noticed lately on ebay that alot of sellers, in an attempt to sneak in some extra money without having to pay final amount fees, have been putting up auctions with ridiculously low starting bids and reserves and astronomical shipping costs. We're talking $20 to ship one game with USPS Priority. I used to only see it on occasion, now it's happening on almost every goddamn auction I see.

I for one think it is completely unethical. It certainly isn't illegal, and anyone who doesn't read the shipping before a bid has it coming, but unethical and wrong nonetheless. Your thoughts on the subject fellow CAGs?

I've got a friend who sells everything for $.01 and puts all the cost in the shipping. The reason is so that they don't have to pay eBay as much.

[Ledhed]

I've got a friend who sells everything for $.01 and puts all the cost in the shipping. The reason is so that they don't have to pay eBay as much.

Of course he does, that's the exact reason people do it. That or to screw stupid bidders who don't read the entire auction. It's damn shady in my eyes though.

[zionoverfire]

I understand padding shipping a dollar or so for packing and packaging but anything more than $2 about shipping for things like games just ticks me off. I don't even bid on auctions with high shipping anymore.

[masha]

I will never buy anything on Ebay with shipping like $5 and up. Why would I charge someone high shipping if I know it will turn a lot of people away from my auctions? Returning buyer is a buyer I'm after. I just have a shipping calculator and keep it at 13oz so it covers my DC#. It comes out around $3.50.

[jimbodan]

Start reporting those auctions. Super high shipping it a big pet peeve of mine. I report everyone I come across. Here is the link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-shipping.html

[mousin]

buy it now for = $.99 cents
shipping USPS = 6.99?

get the clue?

[Drocket]

I used to report quite a few things to eBay. Eventually I discovered that they do nothing about virtually anything. Even blatently obvious pirated merchandise (like '100-games-in-one' GBA carts) probably has less than a 50% chance of getting shut down. Anything else, you can forget them taking any action.