Why is SOUL CALIBUR II so popular?

[yellowaznboy]

Am I missing something?

I admit it: I was suckered in by the overwhelming hype. Having never played the original Soul games, I didn't know what I was getting into. After purchasing Soul Calibur 2 for the GameCube (no particular reason), I was compeletly and utterly dissatisfied.

Obviously, the battle system is what I am most disappointed with. I believe the fact that you can counter/parry pretty much any attack in the game is its downfall. The computer/AI does it nearly 99% of the time. It makes the game not only frustrating, but trying to recipricate is nearly impossible. Why? Because there are so many moves in the game that knowing which button to press in order to counter is stupidly difficult. Only with many years of practice will you memorize every animation (and number of frames) for every attack and grab in the game, and only then will you "master" this game. Otherwise, even a button masher may be victorious. I fail to see where you would apply some sort of skill in order to be victorious.

In conclusion: facing off against the AI isn't fun. Losing to a button masher isn't fun. Where's the fun? Weapon Master mode? Hah!

[Scrubking]

Is that supposed to be a review? Otherwise this should go on another board.

[WhipSmartBanky]

I'm gonna have a little fun here, since I don't consider this a full review. If you're easily offended or irritated, you may want to skip this:

Am I missing something?

Probably.

I admit it: I was suckered in by the overwhelming hype. Having never played the original Soul games, I didn't know what I was getting into.

Been under a rock or something?

After purchasing Soul Calibur 2 for the GameCube (no particular reason), I was compeletly and utterly dissatisfied.

Sometimes happens when you make an uninformed gaming choice.

Obviously, the battle system is what I am most disappointed with. I believe the fact that you can counter/parry pretty much any attack in the game is its downfall. The computer/AI does it nearly 99% of the time. It makes the game not only frustrating, but trying to recipricate is nearly impossible.

Practice, padawan.

Why? Because there are so many moves in the game that knowing which button to press in order to counter is stupidly difficult. Only with many years of practice will you memorize every animation (and number of frames) for every attack and grab in the game, and only then will you "master" this game.

So now the PlayStation generation expects to master a fighting game in a weekend?


Otherwise, even a button masher may be victorious. I fail to see where you would apply some sort of skill in order to be victorious.

Obviously you've never played with other people.

In conclusion: facing off against the AI isn't fun.

Get some friends.

Losing to a button masher isn't fun.

Get some friends who know how to play.

Where's the fun?

Lost on you, apparently.

Weapon Master mode? Hah!

Can't beat 4-3, can you?

[captainfrizo]

I'll tell you what yellowaznboy, if you're willing to put that game in a box and mail to my house (you'll pay for shipping since I'm doing you the favor of getting rid of the game), I'll be more that happy to take it off of your hands. Post if interested.

[yellowaznboy]

Is that supposed to be a review? Otherwise this should go on another board.

Are you suggesting that because I don't follow the tired formula of a point-scale system that my opinion doesn't belong here?

www.dictionary.com's definition of a review:

re·view ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-vy)
v. re·viewed, re·view·ing, re·views
v. tr.
To look over, study, or examine again.
To consider retrospectively; look back on.
To examine with an eye to criticism or correction: reviewed the research findings.
To write or give a critical report on (a new work or performance, for example).
Law. To reexamine (an action or determination) judicially, especially in a higher court, in order to correct possible errors.
To subject to a formal inspection, especially a military inspection.

Last time I checked, that's exactly what I did. Perhaps it is because I didn't include my opinion on the graphics or the music?

[yellowaznboy]

Thank you for your response, WhipSmartBanky.

Sometimes happens when you make an uninformed gaming choice.

I agree. I made a stupid, careless mistake. But that's irrelevant.

Practice, padawan.

So now the PlayStation generation expects to master a fighting game in a weekend?

Read below.

Can't beat 4-3, can you?

Actually, I have played the game to death, despite the fact that I find the game flawed. I've invested months in the game in an effort to "master" the game.

Anyway, Weapon Master mode = easy, in my opinion. I ended with a level 83 <insert stupid name here>, and would have "leveled" all the way to 99 except it becomes monotonous, especially after collecting every single weapon in the mode.

And of course I play against human players! I know many people who have this game and play with me regularly. We even hold small tournaments, and, I can honestly say, that's where the fun is, if not for the social interaction and the competitive atmosphere. But playing against the AI has made me realize that it is nearly impossible to master the game without many, many years of training.

Btw, have you even played the game? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass in an attempt to look somewhat clever, as you provide no insight on the game itself. If you have, what's your opinion of the battle system?

And please, don't classify me under the generalized group of "Playstation generation," as I probably have more gaming experience than you.

[DenisDFat]

because people are stupid and like what sucks

[WhipSmartBanky]

Thank you for your response, WhipSmartBanky.

You're welcome.

I agree. I made a stupid, careless mistake. But that's irrelevant.

Hey, you brought it up.

Read below.

Ditto.

Actually, I have played the game to death, despite the fact that I find the game flawed. I've invested months in the game in an effort to "master" the game.

Anyway, Weapon Master mode = easy, in my opinion. I ended with a level 83 <insert stupid name here>, and would have "leveled" all the way to 99 except it becomes monotonous, especially after collecting every single weapon in the mode.

That's fair.

And of course I play against human players! I know many people who have this game and play with me regularly. We even hold small tournaments, and, I can honestly say, that's where the fun is, if not for the social interaction and the competitive atmosphere.

Then why'd you ask in your previous post, "Where's the fun?" You're contradicting yourself.

But playing against the AI has made me realize that it is nearly impossible to master the game without many, many years of training.

You say this as if it's a bad thing. I remember back in the day everyone spent years mastering SFII and its various iterations, counting animation frames and learning attack priority and collision zones. People are STILL playing it today, holding tournaments and whanot, and there's even an anniversary edition that just came out recently in Japan for PS2, IIRC.

Btw, have you even played the game? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass in an attempt to look somewhat clever, as you provide no insight on the game itself. If you have, what's your opinion of the battle system?

http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8045&highlight=#8045

And please, don't classify me under the generalized group of "Playstation generation,"

Fair enough.

as I probably have more gaming experience than you.

Unless you're over 30 years old and been playing games all your life, I sincerely doubt that.

[pimpinc333]

LOL Chalk 10 up for Whip!!! Thats the funniest thing ive read all day Thx man lol

[CaseyRyback]

yea Soul Calibur 2 was a really fun fighting game to me. I have only put in like 20 hours but thats only because none of my friends want to play SC2

basically it took me 15 to master link completely and to become really good with him , although my friend always kills me with cervantes

[peteyrose]

It's a pretty good fighter, although I'm not much of a fighting game fan. One of my friends is nationally ranked though, in SCII tourneys :)

[yellowaznboy]

Again, thank you for your responses, WhipSmartBanky.

Then why'd you ask in your previous post, "Where's the fun?" You're contradicting yourself.

Notice what I said at the end of that passage. I sincerely don't find the game fun at all (more frustration than fun), but sometimes you just have to stick with it to see what happens. Anyway, I find tournaments, in general, to be fun, and probably even a game like Barbie Race and Ride would be "fun" if a tournament was ever held...

You say this as if it's a bad thing. I remember back in the day everyone spent years mastering SFII and its various iterations, counting animation frames and learning attack priority and collision zones. People are STILL playing it today, holding tournaments and whanot, and there's even an anniversary edition that just came out recently in Japan for PS2, IIRC.

You can't really compare 2D fighting games with 3D fighting games. But even so, Soul Calibur 2 has so much more depth than Street Fighter II (and it's 2D iterations). "Mastering" Street Fighter is not as difficult as "mastering" a 3D fighting game such as Soul Calibur 2. With Soul Calibur, there are infinitely more "moves" and thus strategies, especially with the "8-way" maneuvers. With SFII, it's either block or jump. But the point is, realizing this, it would take a lifetime for players to play in extremely high levels of skill.


http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8045&highlight=#8045

That review doesn't include anything about the battle system at all, which is, um, pretty much what this game is about. Sure, you talk about the graphics and the sound, but how does that make the game fun?

Unless you're over 30 years old and been playing games all your life, I sincerely doubt that.

You don't have to be in your 30's to have extensive gaming experience. I buy/play older consoles/games. I would list the number of game-related products I have, but then I would put myself in the same boat as minx (another jab at minx's huge library of games :lol: ).

[TheRaven]

As a very casual player of the fighting genre, I found SC2 to be a disappointment myself too. I loved the original on the DC and just found this to be pretty much the same game. Felt more like SC 1.5 to me. That doesn't make it a bad game at all. The fighting system is pretty tight, the characters are solid, and of course the graphics are top notch. It just didn't take the next step I was hoping it would take for me personally like the original did.

I am not a hardcore fan of fighting games though so any subtle differences would be lost on me.

[WhipSmartBanky]

You can't really compare 2D fighting games with 3D fighting games. But even so, Soul Calibur 2 has so much more depth than Street Fighter II (and it's 2D iterations). "Mastering" Street Fighter is not as difficult as "mastering" a 3D fighting game such as Soul Calibur 2. With Soul Calibur, there are infinitely more "moves" and thus strategies, especially with the "8-way" maneuvers. With SFII, it's either block or jump. But the point is, realizing this, it would take a lifetime for players to play in extremely high levels of skill.

I agree for the most part...the SF2 reference was to illustrate my point. However, I still don't see why having a deep 3D fighting system that takes a "lifetime" to master is in any way a bad thing. However, I do contend that to "play in extremely high levels of skill," either in SFII or SC2, does take practice, but not a lifetime.

That review doesn't include anything about the battle system at all, which is, um, pretty much what this game is about. Sure, you talk about the graphics and the sound, but how does that make the game fun?

While I didn't get into the same level of detail you did, I clearly mentioned what you call the "battle system" almost right off the bat:

The control is precise and exact - if you can't do a particular move there's no one to blame but yourself, not the controller or the input system.

The control of the game puts the "fun" in "fundamental." Also, I mentioned the following:

Cool variety of weapons for each character to use in the extra modes, and lots of things to unlock and try out, and tons of modes to keep you busy long after you've unlocked everything.

I rarely buy new, full-price games, and when I do, I can count on one hand the number I've pulled this much play time on, and I plan to log a lot more hours in the future on it...

I don't think you really need me to elaborate. I wouldn't have played the game nor would I continue to play it if I wasn't having fun. Clearly you're frustrated, and I have no complaint with that, but...if, as you say, you've played the game for several months...well, nobody plays a game for months if they're not having some level of fun.

Now, IMHO, as far as the AI goes, even on the hardest levels, once you've attained a certain level of competency in your gameplay, it's a cakewalk. I find the most challenge in playing against human players. Even the SC2 AI at its best is still predictable, but a human player is not as nearly so.

And to be honest with you, if you're getting your butt whooped by button-mashers, then you haven't learned to play at a competent level yet. Any skilled SC2 player will dominate a button-masher regardless of character. If you find yourself on the losing end of those types of battles, you need practice. Plain and simple.

You don't have to be in your 30's to have extensive gaming experience.

I'm not saying you do. However, I have been playing video games in one form or another for all of my life, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have too. What you have to understand though, is that unless we're very similar in age, I'm going to have more gaming experience than you. I'm not bragging or boasting about it, it's just a fact.

I buy/play older consoles/games.

As you should. I'm glad you appreciate your gaming roots.

I would list the number of game-related products I have, but then I would put myself in the same boat as minx (another jab at minx's huge library of games :lol: ).

The size of your collection and your gaming experience have nothing to do with one another. It only shows your dedication. If you contended that you're a more dedicated gamer than I am based on your gaming collection, I might be more apt to concede that point.

[yellowaznboy]

I'm going to discontinue the annoying quoting.

About the AI: while the computer is "predictable," the way in which it counters pretty much anything you throw at it is where the frsutration lies. And I never said the computer was impossible to defeat; I said facing them was not fun.

As for losing to button-mashers, I exaggerated that part a bit. I tend to allow newbies and casual gamers the option of infinite health to make it a challenge. For the most part, it's relatively easy to knock my opponent out of the arena before my life bar is diminished. However, the occasions in which a person just mashes the buttons, and my inability to discern which move it is, results in a KO or ring-out is where the frustration lies.

Off-topic: Time vs. experience is a funny thing. What you choose to do with your time and what you experience depend on your actions. You may have, for example, played a particular game before me, but if I play the same game when I am capable, isn't my experience, in terms of that game, comparable? What I'm trying to say is, age may or may not have anything to do with the experiences you have as a result of your actions (or lack thereof).

Confused? I am...

[WhipSmartBanky]

Right...and I agreed with you. Age has absolutely nothing to do with your gaming experience. Time playing, however, does. If I've been playing games for 25 years and you've only been alive for 18 years (for example) it's not all that unreasonable to expect that I'd be more experienced, especially if it was my lifetime hobby even if it was yours as well. However, since you haven't offered to reveal your age to refute that, I can only guess.

However, to add the confusion and pick nits...there might be some games I've mastered that you've never played, and vice versa. Either way, it doesn't matter. Don't profess to be more experienced than me because you have more games, and I won't profess to have more experience than you because I've been gaming longer. Ya dig? :lol:

Anyhow, as far as your frustration in your SC2 situation, I know you say you play with friends, but you'd probably benefit if you found the one person who constantly whoops your ass, and sat down with them, no handicaps, and just played. Repeatedly. You'll learn more intuitively fending for yourself than you will trying to read move-lists.

Other than that, I really don't know what to suggest to help you. You'll only reach a low skill threshold playing the AI all the time. If you continue playing with your friends, I guarantee you it'll get easier.

[DenisDFat]

haha 3d fighter have more depth than 2d. You should be on Carson.

[WhipSmartBanky]

Well...it has something to do with that pesky 3rd dimension.

Let's see:

2D = length and width.
3D = length, width, and...*gasp* DEPTH!

Heh. So yeah, I think a 3D fighter would have more "depth" than a 2D one. :twisted:

[yellowaznboy]

Thank you for your time, WhipSmartBanky.

[dynamite99]

man for the first time i fully read a dicussion, LOL you the man Whip and of course you have your point too aznboy ;) anyway personally i'd enjot this game if it was as difficult and take that long to master. i love a fighting game that last. if it was easy then there would not be much to do in the game eh? DBZ for example, if you're not a fan, finish it in couple of hours and it goes to the collecting dust corner, unless you play with someone else

[yellowaznboy]

http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1490

...

[WhipSmartBanky]

Guess it was just you!

...

*drops cigar* I KID I KID! :twisted:

[yellowaznboy]

I guess it really is just me. I don't understand the phenomenon that is 3D fighting games, such as Soul Calibur. Furthermore, I wish I could survey those people on whether or not they still play the game. I know I don't, anymore...

[iloveqtchickz]

let's just put it this way.. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. can't expect everyone to love the game. I personally like it because of the versus mode that my friends and I really enjoy. It's just what type of game u like. thats all.

[Scrubking]

Um, this is not a review. A review has some sense of objectivity and some kind of scructure. This is a rant about how you don't like the game. :roll:

[D4rkewolfe]

This is finally a good post, not all this flaming I've seen lately. Good points were made, and replied to in a manner not to be described as immature. Kudos to aznboy and WSB.
I can't truly give my opinion seeing as how I only played a couple of rounds of SCII for the GCN. I did find it fun, especially going against my brother-in-law. Since he had just gotten the game at the time we were both equal and had a blast. I still prefer 2D fighters, I never got into 3D...I think I should move on into it.

[games2003]

Yes SC2 was way too overhyped and didnt capture that magic that SC1 has and still has. SC2's engine isnt fluid & overall I was pretty disappointed sure am happy I bought VF4 Evolution instead!

Not enough gamers appreciate VF4 which is the best overall fighter on the market currently. Plus anytime a fighting game goes multiplatform for the GC PS@ or xbox it always stinks, remember MK's lackluster return.

Best Fighters Period:

*VF4 Evolution or VF4*
Guilty gear x2
Street Fighter 2
Soul Calibur 1
Samurai Showdown 2
Tekken 3
MK2 & 3
DOA3
Marvel 2
Capcom vs SNK 2

Help me out if I forgot anything else worthy?

[D4rkewolfe]

Hmmm I'd agree on MK2 but MK3 didn't impress me too much. Personally I remember beating guy after guy at the arcade on this one, Marvel Super Heroes...one of my personal favorites, didn't it start all those huge superpowers, and the cheap proton cannon

[poormojo]

I'd also like to chime in on the "Wow, a real discussion theme." And to say that I really appreciate that neither Banky nor Azn got dirty/petulant/stupid. No flaming; just discussion.

This is great.

Also, I just traded for SCII, so I'm excited about it. I played Soul Blade back in the day for hundreds of hours and I'm looking forward to doing more of the same.

[Alpha2]

I like SC its a fast smooth fighter... unfortunatly I never understood the new reversals and counters and such beyond the original SoulBlade and quickly realized there wasnt much point to my playing it against anyone who had because I'd just look like a button masher (...which I am, but I dont think I need to look like one!)

But I will say that the character designs are pleasing and have personality on top of looking really cool for the most part...except for that Todd Mcfarlane creation... boring.

[weimerwanger]

i agree with yellowaznboy about the button mashing thing, and this is coming from the button mashers end; i've not played this game more than 2-3 hours, but i've played arcade, ps2, and gc... when i play kids that are top tier at every fighting game (some kids where i live are freaks) i actually can beat these guys 50% of the time at soul calibur 2... and i know i'm not good, and im not cheap, im just parrying, sidestepping, blocking, and MASHING BUTTONS!!

[yellowaznboy]

i agree with yellowaznboy about the button mashing thing, and this is coming from the button mashers end; i've not played this game more than 2-3 hours, but i've played arcade, ps2, and gc... when i play kids that are top tier at every fighting game (some kids where i live are freaks) i actually can beat these guys 50% of the time at soul calibur 2... and i know i'm not good, and im not cheap, im just parrying, sidestepping, blocking, and MASHING BUTTONS!!

Don't be ashamed! Be proud of your button mashing skills!

More people need to come forward and admit that button mashing (and some luck) can do some crazy things :lol:

[Wasabi]

I agree with yellowaznboy(trust me it's not just you) this game isn't anything special, it's like VF for dummies...or worse DoA for dummies. Like yellowaznboy I played through the Weapons master mode sometimes doing "chapters" with out even trying...unless you call ->+Y trying.
A character roster hasn't been this unblaanced since SF1. I used link for shits and giggles but found that if you pick a character with reach or over powered all you have to do is A...A....A....A...A

The ring out stuff is archaic, like VF1. Games with ring outs..the ones that still do that crap you have to work it, SC2 it's more baiting the person then smaking the crap out of them. Sure there some depth...nothing like Sf or Vf.

This game is nothing special, and really a far step back for the series. Aside from the dated ring outs, the shallow fighitng sytem, the characters be came so much less interesting.

I got it used with credit from stuff I hadn't touched in long time, so no BIG loss.

Oh and sure get some friends and play it...well not gonna happen since I usally play VF and SF3 with them.

I'm not saying the game sucks but, like I said nothing special. Makes one wonder if the gimmik of System specific Characters and McFrlane designed character (if you can call that a character design) would this game have flopped and went the way of Bloddy Roar?

Oh as far as the posted best game list...GGXX? Like it when it was called Darkstalkers

[yeahokthenfu]

ok im not reading anymore of this post, I just got this game last night, been playing it, granted I have gotten mad at the game and some of the moves are hard to learn, this is a pretty damn good game and Im glad that I bought it so far.

[The Successful Dropout]

i usually hate all fighting games....

but i liked soul calibur and the original bloody roar

[MauMauProductions]

Soul Calibur may have been the most overrated game of 2003...I'm not sure about you guys but I didnt like it one bit.

[Battousai1002]

i agree with yellowaznboy about the button mashing thing, and this is coming from the button mashers end; i've not played this game more than 2-3 hours, but i've played arcade, ps2, and gc... when i play kids that are top tier at every fighting game (some kids where i live are freaks) i actually can beat these guys 50% of the time at soul calibur 2... and i know i'm not good, and im not cheap, im just parrying, sidestepping, blocking, and MASHING BUTTONS!!
If that's true, then the kids you're playing AREN'T top tier. If you were playing against top tier, you would win maybe 1/4 of the time at most.

A character roster hasn't been this unblaanced since SF1. I used link for shits and giggles but found that if you pick a character with reach or over powered all you have to do is A...A....A....A...A
Actually, the character roster is fairly balanced. Excluding console exclusives, they're all pretty much equal. The A...A...A thing shouldn't work, since you'll eventually become VERY predictable, thus easy to guard impact. Or, since practically all As are high, the opponent could just duck and punish you with a crouching move.

[-Never4ever-]

haha 3d fighter have more depth than 2d. You should be on Carson.

I find rather funny how one single comment can expose you for the idiot that you are.

[Barnolde]

I didn't like SC2 very much, I had more fun with Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, and the first Soul Calibur is light years ahead of this one.

[CaseyRyback]

haha 3d fighter have more depth than 2d. You should be on Carson.

I find rather funny how one single comment can expose you for the idiot that you are.

yea it proves someone never played Virtua Fighter

[Rodimus]

Well...it has something to do with that pesky 3rd dimension.

Let's see:

2D = length and width.
3D = length, width, and...*gasp* DEPTH!

Heh. So yeah, I think a 3D fighter would have more "depth" than a 2D one. :twisted:

Do you mean "Depth" as in it has a challenging value to it, or you can move up and down the screen with a character which creates "Depth"?

[-Never4ever-]

Well.. it has both actually.

[Nirvanaguy777]

Well I think its popular because of link, spawn, heihachi(hard to spell) plus soul edge was a good game, and soul caliber 2 is a good game as well.

[-Never4ever-]

in the end that's why it's so popular; it's good, it's deep and it has regonizable characters behind it.

Just stop hating and embrace SC2, or DIE!!!

... or not.

[Missingdata]

Wow flame war...

[daddiebigbig]

its just a good game a good fighting game if you aint into to look the other way

[jall]

this game is fun to play against friends. While playing the storyboard mode (i'm not sure exactly what it is called its been a while)you have many of the same challenges with each charachter. It gets rather boring completing the same tasks over and over again spending time to find that you have unlocked ----- a costume :cry:

[Mookyjooky]

I'm personally a huge fan of mindless insane 2d fighter action...but once in a while I play 3d fighters. I loved SoulCalibur....but 2 just doesnt get my love and I'll tell you why.

3d fighters have to sacrifice somethings for others...where as a 2d fighter can have insane combos and faster than need action...a 3d fighter has more depth and "tactics". I use the tactics word sparingly cause a. 2d fighters dont have "tactics" and b. 3d fighters barely have "tactics". But because of these things it now has gained (3d)....it has to lose some of the randomness in place of skill and tactics. SoulCalibur had mucho tactics...its had a usable full roaming fighting system...instead of a 2d fighter using 3d graphics. It also had character to character balance...which is actually a very hard thing to find in a any fighter (2d or 3d, but much harder in 3d). SoulCalibur 2 was a great game...but it ceased to be "Soulcalibur" anymore...the tactics were sacrificed for a faster pased game....whereas button mashing was possible in the first...they were easily dismantled...but the second allowed it. Now maybe it was too fast pased for me, but I play Marvel vs Capcom 2 relgiously...so my eye hand coordination isnt too shabby.

I feel that thought Soulcalibur 2 was a great game....it wasnt as good as the first.

PS: the added characters felt so tacked on too.

[Mookyjooky]

Yes SC2 was way too overhyped and didnt capture that magic that SC1 has and still has. SC2's engine isnt fluid & overall I was pretty disappointed sure am happy I bought VF4 Evolution instead!

Not enough gamers appreciate VF4 which is the best overall fighter on the market currently. Plus anytime a fighting game goes multiplatform for the GC PS@ or xbox it always stinks, remember MK's lackluster return.

Best Fighters Period:

*VF4 Evolution or VF4*
Guilty gear x2
Street Fighter 2
Soul Calibur 1
Samurai Showdown 2
Tekken 3
MK2 & 3
DOA3
Marvel 2
Capcom vs SNK 2

Help me out if I forgot anything else worthy?

Even though you are a Noob...I agree with everything you said...except...Mortal Kombat 2 was Ok at best and 3 was horrible. Aldo DOA2 was a cleaner and better fighting engine than 3...but I love the added characters...so I dont know about that one.

Oya...and you missed

Street Fighter 3 : Third Strike
Red Earth / Warzard

[mernst23]

Yes SC2 was way too overhyped and didnt capture that magic that SC1 has and still has. SC2's engine isnt fluid & overall I was pretty disappointed sure am happy I bought VF4 Evolution instead!

Not enough gamers appreciate VF4 which is the best overall fighter on the market currently. Plus anytime a fighting game goes multiplatform for the GC PS@ or xbox it always stinks, remember MK's lackluster return.

Best Fighters Period:

*VF4 Evolution or VF4*
Guilty gear x2
Street Fighter 2
Soul Calibur 1
Samurai Showdown 2
Tekken 3
MK2 & 3
DOA3
Marvel 2
Capcom vs SNK 2

Help me out if I forgot anything else worthy?

Even though you are a Noob...I agree with everything you said...except...Mortal Kombat 2 was Ok at best and 3 was horrible. Aldo DOA2 was a cleaner and better fighting engine than 3...but I love the added characters...so I dont know about that one.

Oya...and you missed

Street Fighter 3 : Third Strike
Red Earth / Warzard

I think the whole reason Soul Cal gets lots of acclaim and hype is that out of all the games you have on that list, only the Soul Calibur games can be picked up and played by anyone. (well, i don't know why the hell D)A3 is on there) The thing is, you don't have every move at your disposal, and once you learn the game, you understand the little discrepancies which allow to make you the best possible fighter. Basically, Soul Cal forces you to learn characters as does every other fighter, but it gives you satisfaction because some of the most basic moves are also some of the most fun to watch.

[rebenns]

SC II is one of the best fighting games EVER! Are you nuts?

[SpookyD]

I bought sc2 nd was also fairly dissapointed. I don't think i'll ever like another fighter as much as the two that are my current favs, smash bros meele and capcom vs snk 2. soul calibur didn't seem all that balanced and it did seem alot like a button masher, I could just ruin everything with voldo, ai and player alike.

[abrannan]

Okay, I'll weigh in on this one. First point, just because you don't like a game, does not make it a bad game, or unworthy of acclaim. I happen to not like GTA3, and have little to no fun playing it, but that in no way takes away from the fact that it is a very popular, innovative game. Second point, just because the AI beats you with a strategy employed by the top tier players (parrying the initial attack), doesn't make the game cheap, you just have to adjust and counter that strategy (Note, immediately parrying after an attack of yours is parried will succeed some 90% of the time). Third point, you don't need to know every last attack to be able to parry. Parry has two moves, one for high/mid attacks, and one for low.

As far as the 2d vs 3d depth (Word games aside) I think it's about an even split at the higher levels. While 3d games have the element of depth and often have larger movesets for each character, 2d games have added depth in the form of multi-level super atacks, guard cancels, roman cancels(GGXX), etc. I would say that 3d fighters have more accessible depth than 2d fighters, and that 2d fighters require a deeper technical understanding.

Fourth point, if you're blocking and parrying, you aren't a button masher. Button mashers can be more successful against mid-level players in SCII, but will still get their hats handed to them by a higher level player (every time, not 3 out of 4 as was previously posted).


All that said, you don't have to like the game. It may very well not be your cup of tea.

[Battousai1002]

I feel that thought Soulcalibur 2 was a great game....it wasnt as good as the first.
I agree.
I bought sc2 nd was also fairly dissapointed. I don't think i'll ever like another fighter as much as the two that are my current favs, smash bros meele and capcom vs snk 2. soul calibur didn't seem all that balanced and it did seem alot like a button masher, I could just ruin everything with voldo, ai and player alike.
Smash and Capcom vs. SNK 2 are awesome, but I don't see how either of those games are more balanced than Soul Calibur 2. I have MUCH more trouble beating an experienced friend with pichu or bowser than beating an experienced friend with let's say...yunsung. I can't say the same for capcom vs. snk, since I can't play with all the characters, but it still doesn't seem as balanced. Also, Soul Calibur's only a button masher to a certain level. Button mashers could beat me when I was just learning, but now, they never do.
Second point, just because the AI beats you with a strategy employed by the top tier players (parrying the initial attack), doesn't make the game cheap, you just have to adjust and counter that strategy (Note, immediately parrying after an attack of yours is parried will succeed some 90% of the time). Third point, you don't need to know every last attack to be able to parry. Parry has two moves, one for high/mid attacks, and one for low.
But the AI does it unreasonably when it's set at its highest level. I like to not consider AI a part of the game. I only see soul calibur 2 as a 2 player game. Also, the low parry parries low AND middle. middle attacks are parried by either.
Fourth point, if you're blocking and parrying, you aren't a button masher. Button mashers can be more successful against mid-level players in SCII, but will still get their hats handed to them by a higher level player (every time, not 3 out of 4 as was previously posted).
True. Sorry about my previous post.

[The Mana Knight]

I think Soul Caliber II is one of the best 3-D fighters ever, if not the best. I thought SC on DC was good, but I thought SCII was better. The only other fighters I might like more than SCII, as far as 3-D fighters are concerned, is Tekken or Tech Romancer.

I think DOA3 is very overrated.

[Ebraum]

I actually like the game more now than when I first played it
( day of Release ). I have it for both GCN & Xbox.

[-Never4ever-]

SC1 was BMer friendly, SC2 actually tweaked so BMers had les of an advantage.

I hate it when nostagia clouds the mind... SC2 is in every single way improved over the original. Whether it was better or not is left to your own opinion.

[Sartori]

Smash Brothers.

[Trakan]

I've got the GCN version. Bought it at $50. Not worth that IMO. Worth 20 bucks for an exclusive fighter and decent overall fighter.

[bluenatas09]

It's fun IMO, cause anyone can get into it. I've had friends over who wouldn't normally touch a controller in their life BUT when they get to mash a few buttons as Kilik they pull off some extravagent and even have a chance at winning. Games are suppose to be about fun.. I think this game covers that....

[Rodimus]

I understand why it's popular, cause it got hyped a whole bunch from Magizines to EB. It came out and I decided to wait till I could find it cheaper than $20. Of course it went greatest hits and now I laugh at any who spent more then $30 for Soul Caliber 1.5 ....I mean Soul Caliber 2.

[CaseyRyback]

I understand why it's popular, cause it got hyped a whole bunch from Magizines to EB. It came out and I decided to wait till I could find it cheaper than $20. Of course it went greatest hits and now I laugh at any who spent more then $30 for Soul Caliber 1.5 ....I mean Soul Caliber 2.

I do not feel bad about spending 50 on it. Then again I had never played SC or Soul Edge before

[-Never4ever-]

I understand why it's popular, cause it got hyped a whole bunch from Magizines to EB. It came out and I decided to wait till I could find it cheaper than $20. Of course it went greatest hits and now I laugh at any who spent more then $30 for Soul Caliber 1.5 ....I mean Soul Caliber 2.

I dropped $50 the day it came out and have never even begun to regret it. I feel sorry for those who just can't accept that maybe instead of SC2 being "crap", that there nostigiac memories just don't hold up as well.

Is it just a bigger expanded version of SC1? Yes. Does it make it worse? Only if you can't think.

[Rodimus]

[quote=Rodimus Donut]quote]

I dropped $50 the day it came out and have never even begun to regret it. I feel sorry for those who just can't accept that maybe instead of SC2 being "crap", that there nostigiac memories just don't hold up as well.

Is it just a bigger expanded version of SC1? Yes. Does it make it worse? Only if you can't think.

I never said I didn't like it or it was "crap", just not worth $50. I did want a copy, and I did buy one. I just paid $35 less than you cause I could wait.

[WildWop]

The only thing this game needed was an offline (or online) version of the Conquest thing from the arcades, as well as stat tracking for offline multiplayer. I'd probably still be playing it regularly if it wasn't for that.

VF4:Evo got it right with the ranking system, but it's a little too inaccessible for people that don't take the time to learn it, or don't have the game. SC2 was much more accessible, but was missing the desire to play over and over and over again.

[ykryptonite13]

Ahh just play Street Fighter and KOF.

[CaseyRyback]

KOF is overrated

[SpookyD]

So you can play street fighter ;)

[Rodimus]

Ahh just play Street Fighter and KOF.

Spoken like a true warrior, I couldn't agree more.

[trq]

Jeez, what's with all the hating?

First off, the complaint that it's not different enough from its predecessor can be leveled at every other fighting game out there. Change the engine slightly, add another character or two, and send it out. Virtua Fighter and DOA are just as guilty of this.

Also, complaining about the AI is pointless. Once you've unlocked everything, there are only two modes you should ever use in a fighting game: Practice and Vs. -- moaning about the AI in SC (or any fighting game for that matter) is like knocking Disgaea for graphics: it just misses the point.

I don't know -- what else was everyone complaining about?

In the end, it makes me wish that there was some kind of "videogame appreciation" class that developers and journalists taught. I see a topic like this and I'm reminded of the guy in high school who one day chimed in with the classic "I think 'The Old Man in the Sea' is overrated: it's just about some old dude fishing."

[CaseyRyback]

Jeez, what's with all the hating?

First off, the complaint that it's not different enough from its predecessor can be leveled at every other fighting game out there. Change the engine slightly, add another character or two, and send it out. Virtua Fighter and DOA are just as guilty of this.

Also, complaining about the AI is pointless. Once you've unlocked everything, there are only two modes you should ever use in a fighting game: Practice and Vs. -- moaning about the AI in SC (or any fighting game for that matter) is like knocking Disgaea for graphics: it just misses the point.

I don't know -- what else was everyone complaining about?

In the end, it makes me wish that there was some kind of "videogame appreciation" class that developers and journalists taught. I see a topic like this and I'm reminded of the guy in high school who one day chimed in with the classic "I think 'The Old Man in the Sea' is overrated: it's just about some old dude fishing."

To say that VF4 was not different and much better than the previous versions is a lie!

[Rodimus]

My favorite fighting games are KOF and Tekken. And every video game magizine, and dumb EB employee, rips on them for not changing much from the previous one. But when Soul Caliber 2 comes out, I guess that's a diffrent story. They never mention the fact that there are only 4 new characters, and my favorite character in it "Cervantes" didn't get anything new except a lousy grab.

Don't get me wrong I like SCII. But just because it got so much hype and everyone was praising it for being the "fighting game to beat" it pissed me off and decided to just play my Gulity Gear X2 and KOF 2002 more.

[emceelokey]

I agree with the OP. I'm a fighting game gamer and I was hugely dissapointed with SC 2. I remember I loved SC on the dreamcast but when part 2 came out I felt cheated. All this hype and nothing really spectacular. Even considering the potential graphic power of systems now and considering how good SC 1 looked as a first gen DC game made me feel cheated. I gurantee that if they didn't have a version with Link in it (which I still haven't played) the game would have got 1/4th the attention it got in the end. I think what made the first one so good was because there wasn't so many good 3d fighters at the time. the 3d fighter that raised the standard for me was VF 4 and Evolution came out very close to SC 2 and I found VF Evoultion to be a way superior game.

[emceelokey]

Jeez, what's with all the hating?

First off, the complaint that it's not different enough from its predecessor can be leveled at every other fighting game out there. Change the engine slightly, add another character or two, and send it out. Virtua Fighter and DOA are just as guilty of this.

Also, complaining about the AI is pointless. Once you've unlocked everything, there are only two modes you should ever use in a fighting game: Practice and Vs. -- moaning about the AI in SC (or any fighting game for that matter) is like knocking Disgaea for graphics: it just misses the point.

I don't know -- what else was everyone complaining about?

In the end, it makes me wish that there was some kind of "videogame appreciation" class that developers and journalists taught. I see a topic like this and I'm reminded of the guy in high school who one day chimed in with the classic "I think 'The Old Man in the Sea' is overrated: it's just about some old dude fishing."

To say that VF4 was not different and much better than the previous versions is a lie!

Seriously. VF 3 compared to VF 4 is like comparing Chili to Cereal. The only thing those two have in common is that you eat them in a bowl. That's basically VF 3 to VF 4. They just share the same name and chracters.

[trq]

My favorite fighting games are KOF and Tekken. And every video game magizine, and dumb EB employee, rips on them for not changing much from the previous one. But when Soul Caliber 2 comes out, I guess that's a diffrent story. They never mention the fact that there are only 4 new characters, and my favorite character in it "Cervantes" didn't get anything new except a lousy grab.

No, you're totally right. Fighting games in general have a bad rep for not adding much with new editions, but that's because the "small" additions don't seem like much to many reviewers and casual players, even though they often alter how the game is fundamentally played. People buy sports games that add little more than roster updates each year -- what's wrong with fighting games doing the same?

To use games you're familiar with, consider Tekken 3 -- it took its share of "Tekken 2.5" criticism, but think about how a seemingly minor element like sidestepping changed how the game was played. Or the change in KOF from the striker system to tagging your partners in and out in 2002. (2003?) Seems minor ... unless you really know the game.

Anyway, I can assure you that SC II took its share of flak for not changing up much -- both IGN and EGM pointed it out in their reviews. The only reason it may not seem like it is because many reviewers assumed most people never got the chance to play the first game (which is pretty accurate).

Oh, and technically SC II has 6 new characters: Talim, Raphael, Necrid, and the console specific one are obvious, but Cassandra and Yun Sun fight NOTHING like their Sophitia or Assassin/Hwang.

[trq]

Seriously. VF 3 compared to VF 4 is like comparing Chili to Cereal. The only thing those two have in common is that you eat them in a bowl. That's basically VF 3 to VF 4. They just share the same name and chracters.

Well, I was kinda making a point. Yes, you know that the games are fairly different ... but that's because you know the games well. See my above post: pretty much all fighting games get flack for not changing much, but usually it's just not true. It's just that the average reviewer/gamer doesn't see the removal of an "Evade" button as any more significant than the overhauling of, say, Soul Calibur's weapon-stripping or guard-impact system. If you don't know the game, you won't appreciate it, or even notice it. Thus it's kinda hypocritical to give any one game a hard time for it. I wouldn't be right in giving VF 4 a hard time for only adding 2 new characters any more than someone else would be right for giving SCII flak for doing the same.

Now, if you want to have a SC II vs. VF 4 EVO debate, I'm down for that, too, but that's really a different thread... 8)

[DrunkTigerWoods]

I dont like 3D fighters in general.

[Rodimus]

Anyway, I can assure you that SC II took its share of flak for not changing up much -- both IGN and EGM pointed it out in their reviews. The only reason it may not seem like it is because many reviewers assumed most people never got the chance to play the first game (which is pretty accurate).

Oh, and technically SC II has 6 new characters: Talim, Raphael, Necrid, and the console specific one are obvious, but Cassandra and Yun Sun fight NOTHING like their Sophitia or Assassin/Hwang.

What you said was all nice but SCII still got great reviews for being what felt like a minor update to the series, while other great games get burned for it. So I don't think it got enough "flak" for not changing up.

I'm sorry I should have noted that eairlier I was recalling my first experience with SCII in the aracdes where it didn't have console specific character or Necrid. But even so I say 5 new chacters cause I don't count Necrid as an original design. He just steals everyones moves with a couple of his own.

[evilpenguin9000]

Actually I think most of the reviews I read said that it hadn't really changed much and noted that. The marks were still high because the original was so exceptional and the second one honed it to near perfection. Still they did note it wasn't a huge leap, if I recall correctly.

Hell I just want SC3 and VF 5 now with online capability. Even if they are the same damn game, that'd be fine with me.

[Battousai1002]

Hell I just want SC3 and VF 5 now with online capability. Even if they are the same damn game, that'd be fine with me.
That'd be awesome. None of my friends are good enough at SC2 to provide a challenge, and the nearest arcade doesn't have SC2 there. Having it online give me challenges and improve me a lot.

[abrannan]

But even so I say 5 new chacters cause I don't count Necrid as an original design. He just steals everyones moves with a couple of his own.

I would disagree with that statement. Necrid is very much an original character design, whereas Charade is not. Charade takes an entire moveset from another character, Necrid takes individual moves. In a combo-based system, where moves flow from one to the next, having a different selection of individual moves is significant. Also, character size matters, so even though both Necrid and Ivy may share a move, it's different when Necrid uses it due to his reach.

But that doesn't change the fact that Necrid isn't a very interesting character, to me anyway.

[evilpenguin9000]

I too am not a Necrid fan. I just never seemed to be able to work out how to get his moves to flow. They are disjointed. It didin't seem to be worth the effort.

[Mishimaryu]

I'm not a soul cal fan myself but If you want a deep 3d fighter try VF 4 EVO.

[Aaron]

The game is an easy playthrough - I got stuck once at a dock somewhere, but beat it after getting pissed off enough to learn new moves. The AI is pretty simple and straightforward, and it was fun for it's part. I got kicked around playing my friends though, and saw there was much more that I needed to learn to be good at it. I've since abandoned the game to a friend who likes those games. I give it kudos for keeping my interest when I don't even like fighting games.

[-Never4ever-]

[quote=Rodimus Donut]quote]

I dropped $50 the day it came out and have never even begun to regret it. I feel sorry for those who just can't accept that maybe instead of SC2 being "crap", that there nostigiac memories just don't hold up as well.

Is it just a bigger expanded version of SC1? Yes. Does it make it worse? Only if you can't think.

I never said I didn't like it or it was "crap", just not worth $50. I did want a copy, and I did buy one. I just paid $35 less than you cause I could wait.

Well that all wasn't directed just at you, itwas a basic summarry against all the various complaints thrown at SC2. You paid $15 cause that's what the game was worth to you you, I paid $50 cause that's how much it was worth to me. It's all a matter of personal taste, I am a fighting game fanatic. I might suck at them, but I'm addicted to them none-the-less. I have to have them, but I'll only drop $50 if it's really worth it and to me SC2 was worth it and then some.

[Rodimus]

quote]

Well that all wasn't directed just at you, itwas a basic summarry against all the various complaints thrown at SC2. You paid $15 cause that's what the game was worth to you you, I paid $50 cause that's how much it was worth to me. It's all a matter of personal taste, I am a fighting game fanatic. I might suck at them, but I'm addicted to them none-the-less. I have to have them, but I'll only drop $50 if it's really worth it and to me SC2 was worth it and then some.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong either, I love fighting games too. You should just see my Dreamcast and Sega Saturn collection of fighting games.