Gladiator A.D. is now Tournament of Legends; The Grinder is now multi-platform

[Cao Cao]

Gladiator A.D. is now called Tournament of Legends, is being published by Sega, has a different art-style, and will not support WM+. Due May 2010, I believe:
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113037
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113057
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113101

The Grinder was announced for PS3/360/Wii/PC, Halloween 2011 and a new trailer:
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=113273
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOLQNloBoIM

Gladiator A.D.
Staff Interview at IGN: http://wii.ign.com/articles/986/986261p1.html
Trailer: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14350710/gladiator-ad/videos/gladiator_trl_extremeviolence_52609.html

http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/986/986261/pre-e3-2009-gladiator-ad-revealed-20090525022235137_640w.jpg

From High-Voltage (The Conduit), they say it's an ultra-violent fighting game, somewhat in the vein of Bushido Blade. They also mention that it will have many different control options, including one that supports Wii MotionPlus. IGN posted an interview with some of the developers, along with some screens and artwork. Tomorrow, another High-Voltage game will be revealed, and more on both games will be said at e3.

TheTjalian of Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/26/high-voltage-follows-the-conduit-with-gladiator-a-d/comments/19024171/) summed up the four-page interview pretty well:
Main points from the interview (so you can pretty much skip a 4 page interview):

- It's a gory, strategic 3D fighter
- Already 7 months into production
- Violence is authentic, not "like Mortal Kombat" over-the-top
- Uses Quantum3 engine, just like Conduit
- Will have better visuals then Conduit, can have more objects on screen then Conduit
- Players can use weapons
- Players can customise weapons, armour, moves
- Crowd can play a part
- Will use Wii MotionPlus, will definitely add deeper strategy to gameplay
- Can play as many characters
- Inspired by 300
- Each character has his own story
- Decisions made by the player can alter the story
- Uses two Wii Remotes, one for each hand
- Player has three directional attack; left slice, right slash, and overhead chop, each with a slow and "power" variation.
- Players block, parry or dodge
- Emmy winning composer Jeff Beal will provide all music
- Split-screen multiplayer available, Online not confirmed at this time, but would be "high quality" if implemented

There's also two tracks from the game available on page 4, as a direct MP3 download

----------------

The Grinder
Staff Interview at IGN: http://wii.ign.com/articles/986/986663p1.html
Trailer: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14352829/the-grinder/videos/grindere3deb_052909.mov.html

http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/986/986663/e3-2009the-grinder-20090526041015074_640w.jpg

This one is a cooperative online First-Person Shooter that pits the player against vampires, werewolves, and other forms of the undead. Judging by one of the comments, this is something that HV hinted at earlier, a game that they said could draw up to 65 enemies on screen at once in tests. It will also support Wii MotionPlus and likely WiiSpeak.

NintendoEverything (http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?p=16843) put up a bullet-point summary of IGN's interview for The Grinder:
- Bloody FPS
- Four players online co-op
- Wii-exclusive
- Monsters are real (vampires, werewolves, undead), part of everyday life
- Heroes kill infested areas
- Hector, Doc, AJ, and Miko are the main characters, have different backgrounds, skill sets
- Each characters have own special weapons
- Will be at E3
- No plans for weapon/character upgrades
- Characters can upgrade in non-traditional ways
- Initial tests allowed for 65 enemies on-screen
- A lot of gore
- Vampires, werewolves, Slasher in E3 demo
- MotionPlus support
- Can customize controls
- Can play the entire single-player game online with co-op
- Split-screen co-op as well
- Expect WiiSpeak support
- Considering Leaderboards and Achievements
- AI controls characters for other players during single-player sessions
- Friends can join in min-play
- Series of stages, multiple paths
- Southwestern locales
- Breakable objects, interactive elements to fight enemies
- Can rescue NPCs
- Hoping for no load times
- Holiday 2010 release date
- Looking for a publisher

[LostRoad]

Wow.. those screen shots look really bad. I don't expect this will do to well.

[pochaccoheaven]

it may sell because after watching gladiator and 300, wouldn't you like to play a game that you pretend to be these characters. will this be the new "mortal kombat"?

[blitz6speed]

it may sell because after watching gladiator and 300, wouldn't you like to play a game that you pretend to be these characters. will this be the new "mortal kombat"?

No, it wont. It will however be 10 bucks soon after release. I have no clue who high voltage thinks theyve become. They're still a C-List developer of shovelware. The Conduit didnt change that image, it looks pathetically bad, just like this gladiator game.

However, i may try it out if the M+ controls are incredible.

['Cube Daddy]

This looks really gross, but it certainly doesn't look bad, in my opinion. I'm definitely interested in the dual-controller possibilities. That sounds like it could really go to some interesting places (and get you working up a sweat).

[LostRoad]

it may sell because after watching gladiator and 300, wouldn't you like to play a game that you pretend to be these characters. will this be the new "mortal kombat"?

Short answer, no.

[FallMoon]

For some reason, the name of this game reminds me of what a crappy, third-party NES or SNES game would be named.

[Cao Cao]

IGN unveiled the second of High Voltage's Wii games, The Grinder:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/986/986663p1.html

This one is a cooperative online First-Person Shooter that pits the player against vampires, werewolves, and other forms of the undead. Judging by one of the shots, this might be one that HV hinted at earlier, a game that they said could handle 60-something enemies on screen at once.

[Mad D]

The second game reminds me of Dusk Till Dawn, when I read the interview I see that was one of their influences.

I hope the first plays more like Bushido Blade instead of Mortal Kombat, I could imagine some wii motion plus specific damage.

[Strell]

No, it wont. It will however be 10 bucks soon after release. I have no clue who high voltage thinks theyve become. They're still a C-List developer of shovelware. The Conduit didnt change that image, it looks pathetically bad, just like this gladiator game.


Yeah. They should make games for the 360.

[LostRoad]

The Grinder looks like it could be fun. 4 person online play might work. Something I will keep an eye on.

[Scrubking]

The grinder looks amazing, but it doesn't have a publisher which could be a problem.

[souljah420]

if you have hate in your heart - let it out! i am sure anyone of you can design better games, but until you do why not wait until a game comes out before you decide how bad the still images of it look. whoever said that this developer just pushes shovelware is a fuckn retard. they are taking a chance to develop mature wii games with the gamer in mind so even if it doesnt sell like halo 3 or gta 4 (hmm i wonder if an unlimited marketing budget and the fact they are 3rd and 4th gen established titles had anything to do with that?) Unless you play it try to reserve judgment - especially if all you have to add to the conversation is Wii Graphics Suck...

[Kaijufan]

I wasn't that impressed with Gladiator when I read about it, but I like Left 4 Dead and The Grinder looks like it could be pretty fun.

[LostRoad]

if you have hate in your heart - let it out! i am sure anyone of you can design better games, but until you do why not wait until a game comes out before you decide how bad the still images of it look. whoever said that this developer just pushes shovelware is a fuckn retard. they are taking a chance to develop mature wii games with the gamer in mind so even if it doesnt sell like halo 3 or gta 4 (hmm i wonder if an unlimited marketing budget and the fact they are 3rd and 4th gen established titles had anything to do with that?) Unless you play it try to reserve judgment - especially if all you have to add to the conversation is Wii Graphics Suck...

1. Why would anyone need to wait for the game to come out to have an opinion on screens? A screen shot is a screen shot, and a message board is a place for others to come and share opinions among other things mmmk.

2. Blitz was right in his statement , for the 15 years High Voltage has been around all they really make is shit. And for what they have been able to port over they have fucked it up. Am I bsing, here is a list of all they have done. http://games.ign.com/objects/027/027174.html

3. Your Halo statement and Gta 4 one are a little off base. Since no one is even comparing this game to them. And why would we be, ones a fps, one is a sandbox, this is a 3d fighter.

4. No one said the Wiis graphics suck. But I will say you seem to ride the short bus. There are plenty of games that look good on the Wii, this isn't one of them. This piss poor game is trying to cap on a movie that was eh, and all the hype that is going around with fighters this year. But hell if this kinda game gets you wet go for it tiger.

[Snake2715]

Interesting, I think it could work for them. Lets hope Condiut does well.

[Cao Cao]

IGN posted a trailer for Gladiator A.D.
http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14350710/gladiator-ad/videos/gladiator_trl_extremeviolence_52609.html

[ArthurDigbySellers]

The grinder looks amazing, but it doesn't have a publisher which could be a problem.

The Conduit didn't have one for a while either. Maybe if it does decently, Sega will pick that one up as well.

[Mad D]

The Conduit didn't have one for a while either. Maybe if it does decently, Sega will pick that one up as well.

I've read EA might pick it up. Even though they tested the game with little online lag it would mean that online would be done by EA Nation and that would mean faster servers

[vherub]

I like that high voltage is attempting to cater to tastes that other companies putting stuff on the wii are not. I want these games to be good, because I want all games to be good.

If conduit is great, then that will be far more indicative of whether these two titles will be great, and whatever past garbage high voltage may have been behind will matter little.

[Cao Cao]

Today IGN replaced the original trailer for Gladiator A.D. with another one (http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14350710/gladiator-ad/videos/gladiator_trl_extremeviolence_52609.html). It's still at the same URL, and the titles are the same, though this new one focuses more on the actual gameplay. Of course, lower-quality versions of both trailers have been uploaded to Youtube.

First Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNTVHyysc9U)
Second Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQ96oGDStw)

[Cao Cao]

IGN posted the first trailer for The Grinder:
http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14352829/the-grinder/videos/grindere3deb_052909.mov.html

[Kaoz]

The Grinder goes multiplatform http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1066623p1.html


Heres hoping Wii gamers dont get a stepchild version.

[Scrubking]

The Grinder goes multiplatform http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1066623p1.html


Heres hoping Wii gamers dont get a stepchild version.

LOL. I can't wait to see what everyone says when it bombs on the HD consoles.

[The Crotch]

...

These are awful names.

[blitz6speed]

LOL. I can't wait to see what everyone says when it bombs on the HD consoles.

No one will care if it bombs on HD platforms, HD console owners have tons of AAA content to choose from, its the wii owners who have a lack of good content with a userbase that is insanely massive, that has the endless supply of third party bombs.

[Strell]

that has the endless supply of third party bombs.

There are tons of bombs on 360/PS3. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to find a list.

Dark Void
Wanted: Weapons of Fate
Bionic Commando

There, three off the top of my head. We could list off a bunch of companies who made HD only games that have closed too. Pandemic with Mercenaries 2, after being scooped up by EA for massive amounts of cash.

This notion that third parties are happy and safe on the HD consoles is hilarious. People are failing left and right. The only difference is that - it seems - if you advertise games on the Wii honestly (beyond commercials in adult swim and advertising on IGN), you have a decent shot at getting good sales. Probably the same deal with HD games, but I'm barely keeping score, unlike you jaded "I hate the Wii and Nintendo and totally don't like any of the games on it" gamers who, surprisingly, devote more time to complaining about these things they desperately try to convince everyone they don't care about.

But let's just keep fuckin' that chicken. You should go complain about lag in TvC some more. The balance of people not having issues posting about their online matches is far outnumbering your fervent hardon for denouncing it as such.

[blitz6speed]

There are tons of bombs on 360/PS3. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to find a list.

Dark Void
Wanted: Weapons of Fate
Bionic Commando

There, three off the top of my head. We could list off a bunch of companies who made HD only games that have closed too. Pandemic with Mercenaries 2, after being scooped up by EA for massive amounts of cash.

This notion that third parties are happy and safe on the HD consoles is hilarious. People are failing left and right. The only difference is that - it seems - if you advertise games on the Wii honestly (beyond commercials in adult swim and advertising on IGN), you have a decent shot at getting good sales. Probably the same deal with HD games, but I'm barely keeping score, unlike you jaded "I hate the Wii and Nintendo and totally don't like any of the games on it" gamers who, surprisingly, devote more time to complaining about these things they desperately try to convince everyone they don't care about.

But let's just keep fuckin' that chicken. You should go complain about lag in TvC some more. The balance of people not having issues posting about their online matches is far outnumbering your fervent hardon for denouncing it as such.

No one said that HD Games dont bomb, they bomb all the time. And the notion that 1 HD bomb can cause a company to go under is laughable at best. But keep tooting that horn. Again, i like good games, and i criticize bad games all the time. You wouldnt catch me near MAG, i have very little interest in White Knight Chronicles, and really couldn't care less about Bioshock 2.

Also, most people don't chime in about TvC lag because they already are done with the game. Im being serious. We're all waiting for SSF4. returnoftheking.png etc etc.

[Kaoz]

Bionic Commando



I enjoyed that so much more than almost any of the big named Wii flops that people point to. (Madworld, Conduit, Extraction ... haven't tried Darkside Chron- am a bit rail shootered out). Had it's faults, but it was nice playing a game that wasn't a cakewalk from beginning to end.

Only one I enjoyed more (that I can think of off of the top of my head) is Overkill

Game deserved to sell better than it did, maybe not at 60$ but at 20-30 surely.

I'm not ragging on the Wii, I enjoy the crap out of it, just I really didn't find much enjoyment from those "hardcore" focused games that people point to and say the Wii is for kids etc etc, cause they really weren't very good imho.

I still believe that a good Wii game, with good advertising, aimed at a core audience (and not in a super niche genre like rail shooter) could find success but there just haven't been any. I'm probably kidding myself though.

Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom seems to be having good advertising, and seems to be very good (I don't enjoy fighting games so I wont be getting it). I hope it sells well, but Tatsunoko being such an unknown may hurt it ... still, deserves good sales. I have a bad feeling it will be considered another flop.

[Strell]

No one said that HD Games dont bomb, they bomb all the time.

But no one acknowledges it in the 360/PS3 camps. Or, if they do, they sure as hell aren't speaking up.

And the notion that 1 HD bomb can cause a company to go under is laughable at best. But keep tooting that horn.

How many next gen HD games did Factor 5 make? I forget. There was Lair, and then....oh yeah, Lair.

Again, i like good games, and i criticize bad games all the time. You wouldnt catch me near MAG, i have very little interest in White Knight Chronicles, and really couldn't care less about Bioshock 2.

That's nice. Brownie points for you. I'm annoyed people consider the same tired trashy JRPGs as something worthwhile, or anyone even THINKING of picking up a game from Quantic Dream after the shitstorm that was Indigo Prophecy, but there you go.


Also, most people don't chime in about TvC lag because they already are done with the game. Im being serious. We're all waiting for SSF4. returnoftheking.png etc etc.

Haha, wow. And you had just earned some brownie points.

[SuperPhillip]

His dick must shrink when Wii does well saleswise, gamewise, etc.

[Kaoz]

How many next gen HD games did Factor 5 make? I forget. There was Lair, and then....oh yeah, Lair.



Wow, I just went and looked at their wiki page, it is a shame one HD console game can shut down a studio that has been making games since 1988.

[Strell]

To their credit, they supposedly had other HD games in development, and even supposedly some Wii games. There's wild rumors they had Kid Icarus Wii (only IGN claimed this) and Pilotwings, with some supposed animation sequences and models fleshed out for each game respectively.

But until they show up with something else, yeah, Lair was the only nail in the coffin they needed.

[Kaoz]

To their credit, they supposedly had other HD games in development, and even supposedly some Wii games. There's wild rumors they had Kid Icarus Wii (only IGN claimed this) and Pilotwings, with some supposed animation sequences and models fleshed out for each game respectively.

But until they show up with something else, yeah, Lair was the only nail in the coffin they needed.

Yeah, but every game studio has something in development when they shut down, so it would still be that one big flop that did it. (Didn't that game have a ridiculously big budget too? I think I remember something like that.)

IGN claims a lot of stuff, it is hard to take anything that site writes seriously.

[MorPhiend]

This news makes me sad. It guarantees the Wii sales will be bad unless Motion+ is incorporated and makes the controls awesome. I know for myself, I might opt for the PS3 version if it looks really nice and the WM+ controls aren't super praised in the reviews. And I'm one who has bought most of these small third party games on day one just to support their support of the Wii, regardless of price (NMH, Mad World, The Conduit, etc...).

[Kaoz]

Oh yeah, I also just read that the ps3 version of The Grinder will likely use the arc (or whatever their motion controller will be called). They didn't confirm it, but they said something to the effect of, they have the dev kit for it and they like it - works exactly as advertised.

[MorPhiend]

IGN claims a lot of stuff, it is hard to take anything that site writes seriously.
Well, I don't know about the other channels, but the Nintendo channel has been pretty good. Matt has always seemed to be spot on with the inside industry news. He even proved that Halo DS did exist at one point, months after he first blabbed about it and everyone called him a liar.

http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2007/10/02/67886/

[Kaoz]

Well, I don't know about the other channels, but the Nintendo channel has been pretty good. Matt has always seemed to be spot on with the inside industry news. He even proved that Halo DS did exist at one point, months after he first blabbed about it and everyone called him a liar.

http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2007/10/02/67886/

Fair enough, my opinion on that site has gone really downhill ever since they went on that kick about Nintendo being lazy and such. (not that I disagreed entirely with the sentiment, but the way they presented it seemed poor to me). So that probably had more to do with my comment than anything, I used to like the Nintendo channel of their site.

[blitz6speed]

I am just going to say that Factor 5 closing had NOTHING to do with lair. They got paid by sony for it, it wasnt their own release. What lead to their failure is widely documented on neogaf many times over, and it has nothing to do with LAIR regardless of how many times wii owners love to say it as fact.

Wii owners using that line is just as laughable as saying Wii cannot sell third party games, wii sells them fine, they're just stuff like guitar hero, just dance, ea sports active, etc.

[Strell]

Then educate me. It's all over Neogaf? Then you can give me some links. Don't come back saying I need to look them up myself - burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Lair sold like shit and they closed shortly thereafter. There's some damned correlation there. Maybe not as much as I'm portraying up there, but there definitely is some. And further, Wii owners are not the only group who claimed this.

Doesn't really matter - one game sinking a company? You're right, highly improbable. But there's plenty of companies being sunk by a few, which only barely diminishes my overall point to begin with.

[SuperPhillip]

Just stop replying to him. If the staff did their job or cared, he'd be long gonr by now.

[Strell]

Now let's not be too hasty. Blitz at least isn't as gone as some of the dumbshits I've seen running around this place. I can give him credit for that.

[xycury]

I'm interested in The Grinder... awful name but a lightgun shootemup is fairly nice on the wii.

[blitz6speed]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19326126&postcount=1971

Theres more in detail posts with a lot more info if you'd like them on neogaf, from insiders all over the industry.

[Strell]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19326126&postcount=1971

Fair enough. I'll have to assume Neogafers are more directly in tune with the industry's inner workings, as I am often told here and there, and as such will keep this all in mind.

[MorPhiend]

Fair enough, my opinion on that site has gone really downhill ever since they went on that kick about Nintendo being lazy and such. (not that I disagreed entirely with the sentiment, but the way they presented it seemed poor to me). So that probably had more to do with my comment than anything, I used to like the Nintendo channel of their site.

Yeah, ever since Matt left to his "new job", the idiots left have done a crappy job. Matt needs to return or they need to hire some people who care about the topic they are writing and talking about.

I'm with you. I agree to an extent with what they have been saying, but I think they have gone overboard and have phrased things in the wrong light lately. Just look at the recent article about how awesome Nintendo's lineup is for 2010. It's like they're a bunch of whiney little bitches who just want to complain about things, but in reality they know things are going pretty good for the console they are covering.

I really miss Matt. I'm a lot like him. I love my Wii to death and I love Nintendo, but I can also be quite the "graphics whore" and if The Grinder looks awesome on PS3 and the controls on Wii are just "meh...", I'm probably not gonna even bother with the Wii version.

[trq]

Yeah, I don't see multi-platform Grinder doing well. A wii-exclusive release would have been a gamble, of course, but considering it's essentially Left 4 Dead Lite, it now has to beat L4D at its own game, and that's a tactical mistake. October 2011? Heck, it might even be up against L4D 3 directly. Good luck with that, guys.

[Kaijufan]

I was really impressed by the new Grinder trailer, I though the environments looked really scary and spooky.
I imagine that if I do pick this up now it wont be on the Wii though, likely the PC.

[KingBroly]

Tournament of Legends is multiplatform also? I thought it was just Grinder.

[trq]

Tournament of Legends is multiplatform also? I thought it was just Grinder.

You're right -- Grinder's the only multi-platform one (so far).

[laaj]

Here is an idea: why won't Nintendo fund development and publish M rated game to prove that M rated games will sell on the Wii. Nintendo doesn't have to publish it under Nintendo badge but something different. Like how Disney owns studios that makes R rated movies with nudity but you won't see any Disney logos on them.

[Strell]

Here is an idea: why won't Nintendo fund development and publish M rated game to prove that M rated games will sell on the Wii. Nintendo doesn't have to publish it under Nintendo badge but something different. Like how Disney owns studios that makes R rated movies with nudity but you won't see any Disney logos on them.

They've been burned on this at least twice in the past. See: Conker's Bad Fur Day and Resident Evil 4. The former they published, marketed, etc. Didn't go anywhere. The latter was a case of teaming up for a supposed exclusive game, which Capcom faffed around on about a month before it was released.

There are probably other examples of this if you really look around. They did just do Reginleiv over in Japan though, which is both M and published by them if my memory is correct.

Note: I am not disagreeing with your point. I am saying Nintendo has tried this. Maybe it's just a case of picking the wrong games to do it with, or some other factor screwed it up. At any rate, you could say it's 100% contradictory to their whole mantra to begin with, and despite your fairly-analogous metaphor re: Disney up there, Nintendo seems stubbornly (and firmly) on the side of games for everyone > games for a targeted audience, at least in terms of age and maturity.

But whatever.

[laaj]

Ok there goes any chances of M rated games making money but how about Nintendo's advice for 3rd party games then. Reason why there aren't many big 3rd party games is because they were burned and Nintendo stated many reasons for that. How about if next 3rd party follows every single advice by Nintnedo and if they still get burned, Nintendo could reimburse the cost of that game. Is sort of like Nintendo putting their money where their mouth is.

[M-PG71C]

To back up Strell, anyone remember Free Radical? You know, the people behind Timesplitters? It only took one bomb on an HD console (Haze) and out the door they went as well. A lot of people hate on the Wii, but there is as much risk on a HD console as the Wii itself, if not more so.

This generation wiped out a crap load of studios, all who mainly saw death on the HD consoles. Makes sense though, there is a bigger investment in development on those consoles and if the game bombs, you're sunk.

Hell, if I was a studio, I rather take risk with a M rated property on the Wii versus the HD twins. The "death rate" is much smaller and with development costs being lower, I have more of a chance to make profit on it. Madworld and HOTD Overkill may have only sold 500K roughly, but I am willing to bet both studios walked away with a solid profit. And both of those games are niche products to begin with.

[Strell]

Man, I knew when I was writing about that stuff earlier, that there was another dev house I wanted to mention, and I kept thinking about the Star Wars Battlegrounds games or whatever I think FR made, but was too lazy to be bothered to look up something about it.

Laaj: I think dev houses really resent Nintendo these days. They've managed to make a huge amount of money on a less-powerful system with less-dev-intensive games, lacking a lot of the expensive bells and whistles of HD games. It actually seems more prevalent with Japanese developers, who shun away from the DS to port games to the PSP, despite the fact that outside of Japan, those games are guaranteed to have less returns.

The above is a bit of a conspiracy theory. I don't think it's TOO far gone, as I think it is worth mentioning.

The thing is, Nintendo is notoriously secretive. They want their games to look the best, play the best, etc. They are not wild on the idea of divulging secrets to their competitors, whom they must figure to be just short of "everyone+aliens." Point is, they've always hidden away various development secrets so that their graphics are generally a step above other games. Likewise, and again, because of some sour relationships regarding teaming up with other developers, they simply aren't hot on the idea of giving out a bunch of advice.

The best we can hope for is partnerships, where Nintendo and someone else are more or less equal in their roles through development. Mistwalker with The Last Story, Team Ninja with Metroid M, Monolith Soft with Xenoblade, Tecmo with Fatal Frame 4. That's as close as we're going to get with Nintendo helping people out beyond their own walls.

[laaj]

To back up Strell, anyone remember Free Radical? You know, the people behind Timesplitters? It only took one bomb on an HD console (Haze) and out the door they went as well. A lot of people hate on the Wii, but there is as much risk on a HD console as the Wii itself, if not more so.


Is there really more risk with HD games? Because I remember bunch of PC developers over a decade ago going bust after one dud game. I seriously doubt HD or non-HD matters when it comes to studios going bust. Good developers will always make it while bad ones (or ones past their prime) will fade away.

[The Crotch]

EXPLAIN TROIKA! s

[Scrubking]

To back up Strell, anyone remember Free Radical? You know, the people behind Timesplitters? It only took one bomb on an HD console (Haze) and out the door they went as well. A lot of people hate on the Wii, but there is as much risk on a HD console as the Wii itself, if not more so.

This generation wiped out a crap load of studios, all who mainly saw death on the HD consoles. Makes sense though, there is a bigger investment in development on those consoles and if the game bombs, you're sunk.

Hell, if I was a studio, I rather take risk with a M rated property on the Wii versus the HD twins. The "death rate" is much smaller and with development costs being lower, I have more of a chance to make profit on it. Madworld and HOTD Overkill may have only sold 500K roughly, but I am willing to bet both studios walked away with a solid profit. And both of those games are niche products to begin with.

I'm pretty sure Free Radical got bought out before they could go under. Also they had a problem in that nobody wanted to publish their games like Time Splitters 4.

I think we should get away from the idea that one game toppled a company and focus on the fact that the increased costs of HD development are a significant factor in all of the closings that have happened as well as the downturn in profits for a lot of companies.

Is there really more risk with HD games?
It all depends on what kind of game you are making and how much it costs to make it. However, in general I would say yes. Besides increased costs per game the HD consumer has been conditioned to expect gigantic blockbuster type games with enormous production values which cost enormous amounts of money to make, and if your game doesn't deliver there's a good chance that no one will buy it. This is evidenced by the fact that games that don't meet the blockbuster status are quickly derided by HD gamers as only being worth $10 as a downloadable game. This happens a lot with 2D games.

Even game companies realize this as EA is shopping around the idea of a PS360 Dead Space Extraction port for $15. They know HD gamers would never buy that game at full price since it clearly lacks the effort, depth, features and production values HD consumers expect in their games. (it's also a good example of how 3rd parties perceive and have treated Wii consumers all this time)

[M-PG71C]

@ Scrubking

They went into financial administration, that's about as good as it comes when it comes to a business closing down. They just lucked out and got bought out. They still laid off everybody but 40 people, mainly being "administrative", not developers. I'd say it is more of a transition into a new entity than anything but still, they went out because of a failure of their primary title (Haze).

Studios always have concepts and future titles in the planning stages and are always looking for publishers to buy-in, but if a game fails, a game fails. With the industry being high-risk for smaller developers, it only takes one failure. It's a shame. It can be applied to any console but because of the higher costs for HD development, there's naturally more risk (and in some cases, rewards too)

@ laaj

Yep, and I remember last generation when a bunch of publishers sank too. As the industry becomes progressively more expensive, there will be less studios, less publishers. That's a trend that can't be ignored. In some ways, its good because it weeds out weaker studios. It can be bad too because you can have too many "blockbuster" games and not enough consumers to buy them. I think that's the issue the HD twins are facing because there is a lot of games that bombed on those systems. But you never hear about them lol :D

The only ones who hear about games that bomb on those HD consoles are shareholders of said companies (people like me who have made profits through stock. Dark Void is one I expect to bomb, I don't see it selling enough to make profit. Capcom as a whole will be worth keeping around in the longer term though).

Yeah, I buy stock in the #1 thing I love to death, games! I see it as if I'm going to debate, may as well put my money where my mouth is. :D (Well, healthcare companies too but that's what I study, but that's a different mess)

[laaj]

Yep, and I remember last generation when a bunch of publishers sank too. As the industry becomes progressively more expensive, there will be less studios, less publishers. That's a trend that can't be ignored. In some ways, its good because it weeds out weaker studios. It can be bad too because you can have too many "blockbuster" games and not enough consumers to buy them. I think that's the issue the HD twins are facing because there is a lot of games that bombed on those systems. But you never hear about them lol :D


I don't really think number of studios will have any impact on games. Even if a major studio goes out of bussiness good talent from those studios will have no trouble finding jobs on other studios or starting a new studio.

Even if 2 or 3 major publisher goes out of bussiness I don't think there will be any huge problems for the industry. Just look at WBIE and Disney coming on with serious attempts after trying the waters for last couple of years. There will always be new or existing publishers to fill any void in the market.

['Cube Daddy]

I don't really think number of studios will have any impact on games. Even if a major studio goes out of bussiness good talent from those studios will have no trouble finding jobs on other studios or starting a new studio.

Even if 2 or 3 major publisher goes out of bussiness I don't think there will be any huge problems for the industry. Just look at WBIE and Disney coming on with serious attempts after trying the waters for last couple of years. There will always be new or existing publishers to fill any void in the market.


It probably comes down to funding, though. Great talent can create a fantastic product anywhere, but it's very costly to distribute and market it. The whole "paying for downloads" system seems to be experiencing a few issues at the mo.

I agree with whomever said up-thread that Nintendo needs to invest in homegrown M-rated titles to prove that it can be done. Eternal Darkness 2 would be a gift from heaven, as far as I'm concerned. That IP should not be left forgotten.

[Scrubking]

Unless 3rd parties are forced to take Nintendo consoles seriously again Nintendo will have to fund and make their own "M-rated" games if they want to get into that arena. But they don't have to prove anything as M rated games can sell on Nintendo platforms just fine given the proper effort.

And this obsession with M-rated games is insane. Blood, tits and swear words don't make a game fun or entertaining. They don't make the console that has them sophisticated and they don't make the people who play them connoisseurs. The fact that the industry has deteriorated into attacking Nintendo based on an ESRB rating without a care in the world for the quality of the game that bears that rating is absolutely crazy.

In other words who cares if M-rated games don't sell if all the M-rated games are crap? Why are M-rated games assumed to be high quality and worth selling? Why do people care if blood and tits sell well? Are the "hardcore" also in an uproar over the fact that most blockbuster movies are PG-13 and not R-rated?

The videogame industry along with "hardcore" gamers and their "hardcore" values have become so incredibly stupid that it really boggles the mind.

[laaj]

Why are M-rated games assumed to be high quality and worth selling? Why do people care if blood and tits sell well?


Because there are limitations on what kind of stories you can tell without M rating. It doesn't even have to be about killing, blood, or sex but about hot button social topics.

[Scrubking]

Because there are limitations on what kind of stories you can tell without M rating. It doesn't even have to be about killing, blood, or sex but about hot button social topics.

Wha? Hot button or social topics do not require a game to be M-rated. Hollywood is full of stories dealing with sex, violence and even rape and they are not rated R.

And if you are trying to say that videogames include sex and gore in order to tell some kind of serious story then I can only lol. Videogame sex and violence couldn't be any more gratuitous and unnecessary in today's games.

In other words God of War doesn't have a sex mini-game because it is trying to make some grand point. It's all fanservice and nothing more.

[Kaoz]

The Grinder no longer a FPS.

Now a top down shooter, 360 version was playable at GDC

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077020p1.html

No final decision has been made about the Wii version, however – it could end up the first-person design that it was always originally intended to be, or it could end up a version of the game that's being created for the 360 and PlayStation 3.

[D. Monic]

The Grinder no longer a FPS.

Now a top down shooter, 360 version was playable at GDC

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077020p1.html

Yeah, I just came here to post this. I don't see it selling squat at retail as a top-down shooter. If they put it out on XBLA, then it could it do okay as a cheap downloadable title, but that seems rather non-ambitious for a title that had a lot of potential.

Sure, there are a lot of FPSes on the 360, but that's also what sells. It suggests to me that they didn't think they could compete with the best FPS titles on the system. In which case, it was a terrible idea to go multi-platform in the first place.

Let's hope (and pray) the Wii version remains an FPS.

[M-PG71C]

I hope the Wii one remains a FPS, I was legitimately interested, and this is coming from someone who has a PS3 and plenty access to FPS's if I so wanted.

I'm not too interested in the top-down shooter, and I grew up on that kind of gaming too. I wanted to see them push the envelope and go further than The Conduit.

[Kaoz]

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/35030/

Tournament of Legends looks pretty bad to me. Not that I expected it to be good to begin with though.

[Kaoz]

The Grinder still a FPS on Wii.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/108/1080689p1.html