Dealergate: Chrysler dealers closed were those that donated heavily to GOP

[Ruined]

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/05/dealergate-statistical-evidence-that.html

Interesting stats, looks like the government closed dealers based on their donations to the Republican Party. One of the top performing dealers saleswise was closed, meanwhile lesser performing dealers saleswise that had donated to or were a part of the Obama campaign are on the "safe" list. Further, the president of Chrysler basically said the decisions came from the government and not him, and he had little say in the matter due to the bailout funds and government control resulting from them. Scary stuff.

[RAMSTORIA]

interesting read. not sure what it really means, but its interesting.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

When you deal with a dragon, ...

[UncleBob]

Wow. Just wow.

[bvharris]

An interesting read, but I have a few reservations about accepting their hypothesis at face value:

1) The source is clearly biased here. There's no way that this does not color the analysis. While I'm not saying it is the only influence on the results, it's undeniable that if you go into a study looking for certain results you're much more likely to find them. I would lend far more credence to a report like this from a neutral source.

2) His analysis focuses on political contributions almost exclusively at the expense of other relevant information. He makes some points about dealer performance, sure, but the fact is he seems to know very little about the process by which these decisions were made. I doubt much effort was made to find out, which is certainly a hallmark of trying to advance a particular conclusion.

I have several more reservations about it, but these are the two which jump immediately to mind.

Hey, it's the internet, and people can write whatever they want. But as someone who works in statistical research field for a living, I can say quite firmly that this article does not pass intellectual or academic muster. That doesn't mean there's nothing there, but let's consider the source.

[UncleBob]

>"but the fact is he seems to know very little about the process by which these decisions were made."

That could be because the dealers themselves can't even find out the process behind the decisions that were made.

[bvharris]

>"but the fact is he seems to know very little about the process by which these decisions were made."

That could be because the dealers themselves can't even find out the process behind the decisions that were made.

That's a shame, but it doesn't at all alter the standards by which a neutral observer is supposed to judge the merit of his arguments. In order to graduate from the realm of wingnut conspiracy he needs to do a little more digging and come up with something more substantial. Statistics without context are a tempting mistress, but they don't make for good research practices.

[AlohaMars2]

Meet the new boss..... same as the old boss. As a Rep, I was truly hoping for Obama and Co. to do something different than the moronic regime of the last few years. Just more of the same apparently.

[HotShotX]

I haven't read the article, but is it also possible that the dealers that were shut down were those that "pissed away company earnings on a political party"?

I'd be interested in seeing how many other dealers still in business donated money at all, or if the amount/number of donors are equal to that of those being shut down.

~HotShotX

[RAMSTORIA]

I haven't read the article, but is it also possible that the dealers that were shut down were those that "pissed away company earnings on a political party"?




how dealers spend their money should not be a concern or factor in the closings.

[UncleBob]

That's a shame, but it doesn't at all alter the standards by which a neutral observer is supposed to judge the merit of his arguments.

Actually, it should. If the individuals behind the decision making process refuse to release information so that it can be fairly examined, then, odds are, there's something going on that they don't want us (or the dealers) to know about.

[elprincipe]

An interesting read, but I have a few reservations about accepting their hypothesis at face value:

1) The source is clearly biased here. There's no way that this does not color the analysis. While I'm not saying it is the only influence on the results, it's undeniable that if you go into a study looking for certain results you're much more likely to find them. I would lend far more credence to a report like this from a neutral source.

2) His analysis focuses on political contributions almost exclusively at the expense of other relevant information. He makes some points about dealer performance, sure, but the fact is he seems to know very little about the process by which these decisions were made. I doubt much effort was made to find out, which is certainly a hallmark of trying to advance a particular conclusion.

I have several more reservations about it, but these are the two which jump immediately to mind.

Hey, it's the internet, and people can write whatever they want. But as someone who works in statistical research field for a living, I can say quite firmly that this article does not pass intellectual or academic muster. That doesn't mean there's nothing there, but let's consider the source.

These are very good points. I would like a good investigative journalist (if there are any left?) to dig into this. Hopefully somebody is. I'm glad that this was raised, although I share your suspicion of the source. I think sooner or later the truth on this will come out.

[speedracer]

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

If you were willing to internalize this without even trying to think about the factors involved, you need to do the "silent rational majority" a favor and shut the fuck up and never speak of politics again. Don't breed either.

This is why we can't have nice things. Half of you are too goddamn stupid to be near the rest of us without safety equipment.

[bvharris]

^ This

Actually, it should. If the individuals behind the decision making process refuse to release information so that it can be fairly examined, then, odds are, there's something going on that they don't want us (or the dealers) to know about.

That's not only ridiculous, but the exact same kind of mentality which leads people like this to come up with wingnut conspiracies in the first place.

Finding a few data points and publishing them does not a vast leftist conspiracy make.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/correlation.png

[elprincipe]

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

If you were willing to internalize this without even trying to think about the factors involved, you need to do the "silent rational majority" a favor and shut the fuck up and never speak of politics again. Don't breed either.

This is why we can't have nice things. Half of you are too goddamn stupid to be near the rest of us without safety equipment.

Glad to see some more analysis. I wonder if someone will dig up some more information on the RLJ case mentioned in the OP.

[UncleBob]

That's not only ridiculous, but the exact same kind of mentality which leads people like this to come up with wingnut conspiracies in the first place.

Finding a few data points and publishing them does not a vast leftist conspiracy make.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying "Impeach Obama!" or anything. I feel this needs to be looked into.

But to hear "Oh, we know what we're doing. We're not going to explain it, or show our reasoning or our proof. You'll just have to trust us." sounds way too much like the last administration for my tastes.

[UncleBob]

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

If you were willing to internalize this without even trying to think about the factors involved, you need to do the "silent rational majority" a favor and shut the fuck up and never speak of politics again. Don't breed either.

This is why we can't have nice things. Half of you are too goddamn stupid to be near the rest of us without safety equipment.

Interesting. Unionized, mostly Democratic, auto workers get partial control of the company and preferential, potentially illegal, treatment in bankruptcy proceedings. Mostly Republican auto dealers get shafted.

This whole situation stinks.

[VipFREAK]

Why couldn't they do this with the stupid ass banks... ?

[elprincipe]

Why couldn't they do this with the stupid ass banks... ?

Wall Street + Washington = Axis of (Financial) Evil

[VipFREAK]

Well yeah, I was being more rhetorical but thanks. lol

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Here's how they decided on what dealers to close:

http://statesborodarters.com/images%5Cdartboard.jpg

See! Nothing political, just more idiocy.

Oh and hey! Interest rates can go up, unemployment rates can set 40 year records, the price for oil can double, companies employing millions can file bankruptcy, but nothing will stop that DOW from going up. On the way to 9000, hurray!

[mykevermin]

So we have a comparative analysis without a comparative group in the OP's link, and a conclusion stated despite the lack of a control group?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

FFS.

[homeland]

So we have a comparative analysis without a comparative group in the OP's link, and a conclusion stated despite the lack of a control group?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

FFS.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

A meme that is currently picking up traction in the conservative blogosphere is that the list of dealerships (http://www.scribd.com/doc/15436481/List-of-Chrysler-Dealers-to-be-Closed) to be shuttered as a result of Chrysler's bankruptcy contains a disproportionate number donors to Republican candidates. There have been furious efforts to prove this contention by looking up campaign contributor lists at the Huffington Post, Open Secrets, and other places.

There is just one problem with this theory. Nobody has bothered to look up data for the control group: the list of dealerships which aren't being closed. It turns out that all car dealers are, in fact, overwhelmingly more likely to donate to Republicans than to Democrats -- not just those who are having their doors closed.

[mykevermin]

yeah, i read that one, too.

New brief: Obama fires CEOs of banks who received bailout funds; blogosphere discovers that these CEOs were all heavy Republican donors.

Film at 11.

[evanft]

Wow, good job Ruined. I'd recommend actually thinking before making a thread.

I love it when a bunch of idiots are screaming about something and then are proven to be unequivocally wrong, and all they had to do to avoid being wrong was to actually think critically instead of being a loud-mouth jackass. But I do not expect incidents like this to actually effect anything. I'm sure this board will be filled with retarded threads started based on completely false premises that anyone who isn't a Kool-Aid drinking fuckwad could see weren't based in any sort of reality that we know of.

[perdition(troy]

Wow, good job Ruined. I'd recommend actually thinking before making a thread.

I love it when a bunch of idiots are screaming about something and then are proven to be unequivocally wrong, and all they had to do to avoid being wrong was to actually think critically instead of being loud-mouth jackass. But I do not expect incidents like this to actually effect anything. I'm sure this board will be filled with retarded threads started based on completely false premises that anyone who isn't a Kool-Aid drinking fuckwad could see were based in any sort of reality that we know of.

I love when people flip out over nothing in internet posts.

[rickonker]

Why couldn't they do this with the stupid ass banks... ?

Do we really need ass banks?

[fatherofcaitlyn]

It was good while it lasted.

[Koggit]

i LOL'd when i got to:

What are the odds of all of these RLJ dealerships remaining open while their competitors are wiped out? Maybe 1/10,000,000 of 1%. Yes, that's one ten-millionth of one percent.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Oliver Stone will probably want to make this conspiracy theory into one of his movies.

[bvharris]

As if this needed more debunking:

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/05/i-am-marlas-observations-on-artifical.html

[gmsisko1]

Meet the new boss..... same as the old boss. As a Rep, I was truly hoping for Obama and Co. to do something different than the moronic regime of the last few years. Just more of the same apparently.


No way man! This is change we can believe in!

[usickenme]

No way man! This is change we can believe in!

your fake outrage is too late in the thread.