Japan to ban "rape games"

[bvharris]

Following the controversy stirred up by Rapelay, Japan is now moving to ban all "rape games."

http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/05/28/rape-games-are-now-banned-in-japan/

TBS news reports (http://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye4143799.html) that all rape games will be banned from sale or production in Japan. It has been decided. It is estimated that this particular genre takes up about 10% to 20% of the entire industry but the PC software independent review committee has made the decision to ban all these games. The PC games review committee had originally not seen it as a problem, but now it has come to the point where the entire game software industry has to comply to the new restrictions.
The news article reports that the reason for doing so started with the campaigning efforts of the International woman’s rights organization Equality Now which had started due to the problems found with the sale of Rapelay in other countries.Note that I don't think anyone disagrees that rape is disgusting, and these games are despicable, but given that this is a gaming forum and this is "vs. mode" I'd be interested to hear whether people think this type of game should be considered protected speech or not?

[Chuplayer]

Banning stuff is never a good idea.

[62t]

What's next? Banning games where you kill people?

[HowStern]

Pedophile kidnapping games are sure to go next. Better stock up on 'em like the gun nuts grabbed guns when Obama took office.

[HovaEscobar]

Rape is despicable and you may find the games disgusting but unless anyone can prove that playing those videogames leads to becoming a future rapist, I don't see the issue. Is it being sold to minors? What exactly is the problem here? Japan is usually liberal about shunning such products yet making millions from them.

Also, I just found this on Giantbomb's page for RapeLay


Nature of the sex


Although the main occupation in Rapelay is raping, the actual raping involves no violence nor torture, the characters only resist for a brief period before giving in. RapeLay despite being a sex-themed adult only game, the characters have their private parts hidden by a pixel filter. This is because in Japan, it is illegal for genitalia to be uncensored.

I'm not on the fence about this at all, I think that they shouldn't be banning these games. However, I don't expect Japan to stand by the creators and consumers of these products.

By the way, how are these games more despicable than say, the games that come out where you can kill innocent people?

[XxFuRy2Xx]

I think the key thing is that the PC game review committee didn't see it as a problem until that organization put pressure on them. Banning it isn't the best option, especially when those in charge of regulating the industry don't see anything wrong with it.

[Friend of Sonic]

Yeah, they're going to come off as complete hypocrites unless the only games coming out in Japan are harmless Hamtaro games.

Or are they harmless?

[bvharris]

To play devil's advocate.. What sort of content do you think would make a game "ban-able"? What line would it need to cross to justify being outlawed?

[Friend of Sonic]

Games involving any illegal activity, anything immoral, disgusting. If there was a game where you played as a fat kid eating Twinkies and orange soda while listening to Linkin Park and crying about homework, I would want that banned too.

But that's just under the scenario of Japan banning every "bannable" game. I don't think anything should be banned.

[HotShotX]

There goes Japan's economy.

~HotShotX

[DarkSageRK]

And all is right with the world again. (http://kotaku.com/5272475/and-now-rape-games-are-not-banned-in-japan)

[bvharris]

And all is right with the world again. (http://kotaku.com/5272475/and-now-rape-games-are-not-banned-in-japan)

Drinks for everyone!

http://www.dekkerdreyer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/tentacle_grape_soda.jpg

[perdition(troy]

I don't really understand why someone would want to play/develop that game in the first place.

[GuilewasNK]

I don't like the idea of a game were rape is an objective, but I don't like the banning either. It certainly should be kept away from children if nothing else.

The fact is that all kinds of illegal activites are represented in the virtual realm. Most of us has played games where killing is an objective whether it is Mortal Kombat, Halo 3, or COD4. Drug activity? GTA. I'm not even going to address the hentai out there.

[JolietJake]

I've never understood the Japanese fascination with strange porn.

[Koggit]

imo right to safety > free speech, i'd support the ban 100%

[DarkSageRK]

imo right to safety > free speech, i'd support the ban 100%

... What?

[HovaEscobar]

And all is right with the world again. (http://kotaku.com/5272475/and-now-rape-games-are-not-banned-in-japan)

That's great, I just downloaded RapeLay and I can get with this whole " rape game " thing. It's more so an adventure game than anything. They never even really show anything that could be identified to anyone as rape. They just have text boxes telling you what happened ( i.e the girl being chased to the bathroom, locked in, etc etc ) and then a sex scene. There is also " chikan mode " where you feel up the girls, but there's nothing particularly gruesome or messed up in it. There's no sock in mouth, girls clothes ripped up, blood everywhere, nothing sick like that. If anything, they just put the name " rape" on a regular sex game and changed the words in the boxes.

[depascal22]

I'm also playing Devil's advocate but rape games aren't comparable to games where you shoot things up. Most of the time, war games depict you as holding off an assault to save your country/planet/family or something like that. For the most part, the people you're killing are bad guys. Is there any legitimate reason to put rape into a game? Can you say that those girls are bad and should get raped? I read Hova's description and it still doesn't sway my opinion. It might not be graphic but we shouldn't be playing "rape" games.

Before anyone brings up GTA, remember that most of the wanton violence in the story is against bad guys or other mobster types. Anytime someone runs over a pedestrian, it's a personal decision and not one made by the developers. You don't have to go crazy and become a serial killer but the option is there. It seems that rape games are there for the sole reason of hunting down and violating girls.

[Nohbdy]

I don't really understand why someone would want to play/develop that game in the first place.

To laugh our asses off at how poorly made it was.

[Friend of Sonic]

Before anyone brings up GTA, remember that most of the wanton violence in the story is against bad guys or other mobster types. Anytime someone runs over a pedestrian, it's a personal decision and not one made by the developers. You don't have to go crazy and become a serial killer but the option is there. It seems that rape games are there for the sole reason of hunting down and violating girls.
If GTA had a fully functioning rape game within it-- you could engage in the rape game with any pedestrian walking about-- and it was fully optional, would you take less offense to it since the game wouldn't force you to commit the acts? Or would you be just as offended since the option is there for the players to take?

[naes]

Video game violence does not equate to real life violence. This is fucking ridiculous.

[GuilewasNK]

imo right to safety > free speech, i'd support the ban 100%

Your real name is Jack Thompson isn't it?

[depascal22]

I'm against any sort of rape in games no matter what the type. I wouldn't buy the game either way but I might be slightly less offended if it's buried somewhere in the game kinda like Hot Coffee. The problem is that this isn't banging prostitutes.

These rapes aren't buried inside the game though. The main point of these games are to hunt down and find girls to violate. It isn't a side quest or optional mission. They're RAPE games. It's not a sandbox game. It's not a RPG. It's a RAPE simulation. I find it offensive and draw the line here.

Free speech can suck a dick if it means people are sensationalizing rape. I don't believe video games make people violent but I'd rather not have anti-social awkward gamers even come close to thinking that rape has any sort of artistic merit.

Let's examine movies. Murder in movies can be artistic. You'll sit through a movie that has a murder in it but how many of you were uncomfortable during the rape scenes in The Hills Have Eyes? Graphic rape or any kind of rape is inappropriate in any kind of setting.

Would you ask your mother for Grand Rape Auto next Christmas? Would you leave it sitting around for your younger sister to play? Feel the same way about GTA?

EDIT -- Just to clarify. I don't believe that video game violence equals real life violence but sometimes a line has to be drawn. Rape in video games isn't appropriate in any shape or form. This isn't shooting Nazis. It's raping young girls. Please stop acting like there's absolutely no difference.

[naes]

I'm against any sort of rape in games no matter what the type. I wouldn't buy the game either way but I might be slightly less offended if it's buried somewhere in the game kinda like Hot Coffee. The problem is that this isn't banging prostitutes.

These rapes aren't buried inside the game though. The main point of these games are to hunt down and find girls to violate. It isn't a side quest or optional mission. They're RAPE games. It's not a sandbox game. It's not a RPG. It's a RAPE simulation. I find it offensive and draw the line here.

Free speech can suck a dick if it means people are sensationalizing rape. I don't believe video games make people violent but I'd rather not have anti-social awkward gamers even come close to thinking that rape has any sort of artistic merit.

Let's examine movies. Murder in movies can be artistic. You'll sit through a movie that has a murder in it but how many of you were uncomfortable during the rape scenes in The Hills Have Eyes? Graphic rape or any kind of rape is inappropriate in any kind of setting.

Would you ask your mother for Grand Rape Auto next Christmas? Would you leave it sitting around for your younger sister to play? Feel the same way about GTA?
Let's be honest here, no one in Japan is playing these rape simulators because they are games. They are playing them because they are basically interactive hentai. Ban these and you might as well ban hentai that is centered around rape.

[itachiitachi]

While having rape games may imply bad things about your society(I imagine these games sell to socially maladjusted people), I think they should find out why there so popular(besides the obvious) and work on fixing that, rather than banning the game to make it look like no problem exists.

[crunchb3rry]

As long as Boong-Ga Boong-Ga isn't banned, I'm okay with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boong-Ga_Boong-Ga

Odd thing is the game simulates "a childrens prank popular in Japan where the victim is sodomized in the anal region whilst distracted". Damn, and I thought it was rough when kids pulled my chair out from under me when I sat down.

[depascal22]

Aren't all video games basically interactive movies/hentai? The tell stories, establish mood, and offer a conclusion.

It doesn't matter why people are playing it. The fact is that it crosses the line for civilized people. I'm not into hentai and I'm really against rape hentai but it's the interactivity that bothers me.

There are absolutely no reasons anyone can give that would make interactive rape appropriate at any level.

EDIT -- I like iitachi's point about Japanese society as a whole. What the hell makes the Japanese think this stuff is acceptable? Japan seems to be a pervert's dream land. Panty machines. Schoolgirl rape games...yeesh.

[crunchb3rry]

Well, to begin with, there's a vast difference (or vas deferens) between movies and hentai.

[Friend of Sonic]

Oh, don't get me wrong, rape is sickening and I have no interest playing such a simulator (other than to see exactly what one of these games constitutes)

But it's odd that the last stand of morality for video games "taking it too far" is a rape simulator. We should be equally disgusted about killing people, but we're not. Niko Bellic wasn't forced to go down the path where he would be forced to kill others, he chose it. A game that casually portrays murder should be at least in the same realm of one that casually handles rape.

But it just isn't in the same realm. Anyone rational will tell you that-- the squakers will say different, of course, but it is different. It's an interesting commentary on our society and what we find acceptable.

[depascal22]

Hentai is animated fantasy porn. Porn is an adult movie. Not that big of a gap is it? Budgets might be completely different but there are some indie films out there with the same budget as porn. Hentai might be about some crazy nonsensical stuff but it still tells a story and offers a conclusion doesn't it? At it's base, it's still a movie.

EDIT -- To be clear about what I find acceptable, I don't play GTA. I do play shooters but usually stuff like Resistance and Halo. I have played sandbox games like Just Cause and GTA III but I spend most of my time trying to accomplish the stunts and trying different vehicles.

EDIT #2 -- Murder should be worse if everyone took the humane point of view. That being said, our soldiers are trained to kill in the name of our country. People will kill to protect their family. There are many instances where murder is acceptable or understood such as, hey there it is, the rape of a daughter/sister/mother. There are absolutely zero instances where rape is acceptable.

[crunchb3rry]

Well, I suppose I can meet you halfway on that. Still don't think it's a real excuse. Like Skinemax movies, yeah there's a plot, but only about 3 minutes at a time between 15 minutes of fucking.

On your second edit, yeah that's very true. Heck, in middle eastern countries they've got those honor killings that are about as fucked up as it gets. You can kill your daughter if she brought great shame on your family name, out in the middle of the street with a crowd in broad daylight. Worse than the medieval days when you'd pack a picnic lunch and take the kids down to a guillotining.

[depascal22]

I'm not trying to compare hentai to Hitchcock but you got my point.

I wasn't trying to go as far as honor killings. I'm just saying that murder is acceptable even in America during certain circumstances. Someone breaks into your home, someone threatens to kill your family, etc. Basically, murder to prevent another violent felony is acceptable in America.

There aren't any circumstances where rape is appropriate. Hell, we even have laws that make guys rapists when they have sex with consenting underage girls. Rape just isn't acceptable in civilized society.

To get back to iitachi's point. I've read that Japan has the lowest crime rate in the world because criminals know they will definately get caught. Maybe that makes them so repressed. They never go out and act on their urges so they just delve deeper and deeper into the world of internet porn/hentai. I'm not saying we should be able to act on those urges but there's got to be a point where the Japanese give kids a better outlet than some of this stuff that comes out. Can anyone from Japan give a better picture of what's going on over there?

[Hydro2Oxide]

Give me rape games or give me death!

Ehh, I don't see the big deal. Even if there was some sort of ban, this stuff would get out anyways. They'd have the rape game arcade equivalent of speakeasies. Excuse me while I go pitch that to an investor.

[Paco]

What's this? Due to ban on rape games, Enjo Kosai starts booming again!

[HovaEscobar]

RapeLay update guys, after you finish the game and rape all three of the girls, they become " broken" and you can have consensual sex whenever , however, and wherever you want with them. Technically, the bulk of the game isn't even rape.

[georox]

imo right to safety > free speech, i'd support the ban 100%

And once you lose that free speech for your "safety", since we no longer can speak out, the Government will take our safety.

There is a reason that Freedom of Speech is our First Amendment...

[davo1224]

So they get rid of the girls' self worth as a storyline? The game is messed up any way you look at it. It only makes even more stupid that the genitalia is pixelated.

[Paco]

And once you lose that free speech for your "safety", since we no longer can speak out, the Government will take our safety.

There is a reason that Freedom of Speech is our First Amendment...

To strengthen these words. Those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety.

[HovaEscobar]

So they get rid of the girls' self worth as a storyline? The game is messed up any way you look at it. .

i thought it was creative

[depascal22]

i thought it was creative

Seriously?

And this really isn't a freedom of speech issue. Freedom of speech doesn't cover everything like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

This is an issue where something with absolutely no artisitc merit is being pushed on the public as a creative outlet. Anyway you look at it, it's wrong. Please stop trying to use the Constitution as a shield for garbage like this. Madison and Jefferson turn in their grave every time stuff like this is used as an example of first amendment rights.

[Hydro2Oxide]

Seriously?

And this really isn't a freedom of speech issue. Freedom of speech doesn't cover everything like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

This is an issue where something with absolutely no artisitc merit is being pushed on the public as a creative outlet. Anyway you look at it, it's wrong. Please stop trying to use the Constitution as a shield for garbage like this. Madison and Jefferson turn in their grave every time stuff like this is used as an example of first amendment rights.

Then why isn't porn banned? It uses a creative outlet (Movies) and has no artistic merit. There is also rape porn, I don't see the difference.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Wow, didn't even know that these games had 10-20% of the industry.

[HovaEscobar]

to depascal

Says who? You? I believe that Jefferson and Madison knew what they were doing. You probably haven't even played the game or done any research on any rape games passed the title, yet you judge them simply because of the " rape " title and what you think "might" be in rape games. I have, and I've made a good argument as to why they shouldn't be banned ( such as how most of the content in these games can't actually be distinguished as rape, just sex scenes ), but it's all just garbage to you. What gives you the right to judge the games' artistic merit? I suppose having rape in the title and being about rape takes points away from your arbitrary rating system, seeing as you're not *screwed up* enough to actually play the games you denounce. Such attitudes were used against GTA a few years back, while actual players of the game ( i.e the millions who don't kill or hurt anyone ) can say that it's just a game and others who aren't even in the games target audience nor have they played the games claim it's a murder simulator.

You have to understand that for many people, men and women, rape is just a fetish. The government should in no way have their nose in what people masturbate to behind closed doors as long as no one's getting hurt. Unless you can prove that rape games are doing any damage in society ( or at least more so than any time of porn or videogames ) they should not be banned. Simple as that. Yelling "fire" in a crowded area is public, and it does have the potential to hurt many people. Moving the mouse up and down and simultaneously masturbating alone at home doesn't hurt anyone.

[HowStern]

Then why isn't porn banned? It uses a creative outlet (Movies) and has no artistic merit. There is also rape porn, I don't see the difference.
Rape porn is banned in some countries. I know it's illegal in the U.K. for a fact. Not sure about the U.S. or Japan though.
I thinkin Japan even most regular porn is blurred?

[rickonker]

... What?

Give Koggit some credit for admitting it. A lot of progressives say they're for free speech..."oh, except for hate speech."

[rickonker]

Seriously?

And this really isn't a freedom of speech issue. Freedom of speech doesn't cover everything like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

This is an issue where something with absolutely no artisitc merit is being pushed on the public as a creative outlet. Anyway you look at it, it's wrong. Please stop trying to use the Constitution as a shield for garbage like this. Madison and Jefferson turn in their grave every time stuff like this is used as an example of first amendment rights.

Uh, this is a freedom of speech issue, whether you like it or not. You should do what Koggit did and just admit it.

Who decides what has artistic merit? Where is it being "pushed" on the public?

This is a great example of exercising free speech rights, because this stuff is so unpopular.

[Hydro2Oxide]

Rape porn is banned in some countries. I know it's illegal in the U.K. for a fact. Not sure about the U.S. or Japan though.
I thinkin Japan even most regular porn is blurred?

Wait wait wait, someone in the UK sits down, watches porn and determines whether or not it is rape? What are the qualifications?

[rickonker]

Wait wait wait, someone in the UK sits down, watches porn and determines whether or not it is rape? What are the qualifications?
On a related note, I think you'll like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7993694.stm

The search involves tax officials examining websites that feature Swedish strippers, in an effort to identify them and chase them for tax returns.

The tax loss is estimated at about 40m Swedish kronor (£3.3m) annually.

Project leader Dag Hardyson said 200 Swedish strippers had been investigated so far. He said the total could be 500.

"They are young girls, we can see from the photos. We think that perhaps they are not well informed about the rules," said Mr Hardyson, head of the tax authority's national project on internet trade.

[xsouthparkx]

WTF? Now where am I supposed to get my simulated rape products at?

The above was a joke lol.
Anyway I do find it to be freedom of speech, yet I do not know the laws in Japan. I didn't even know there were rape games available. Maybe I should buy one... Anyone know where these rape games can be purchased? Google checkout perhaps?

I view male rape to be a funny thing. If I were to be raped right now, I would probably laugh. I don't know why. I just would. I'm dead serious too haha. It's probably because I have aids. If it were a violent rape like they were to shove sharp objects up my doo doo hole, then no. Not cool. What kind of rape are we talking about here? Male v Male, Male v Female, Female v Male, or Female v Female? Violent (blood, sharp objects, killing) or non violent (just tied up etc.)

[dopa345]

"I may not agree with what you play, but I will defend to the death, your right to play it."

There is no justification for censorship, regardless of how distasteful the subject matter may be. Personally, to me it is on the same level as GTA or Manhunt. You're playing a sociopath. Not my cup of tea but, hey if there's a market for that sort of stuff, a company has the right to develop and sell those types of games. Likewise, stores have the right not to carry them, consumers have the right not to buy them and boycott stores that do sell them etc....

[depascal22]

So. I can't use my freedom of speech to denounce them? I can't decide that a game that centers around rape isn't my cup of tea and sit here and say so? I can't decide that this type of game shouldn't be around for my daughter to find? The first amendment trumps my responsibilties as a parent? You guys seriously realize that you're arguing that rape play is protected by the Constitution, right?

Hova. You yourself said that you rape the girls the first time and then the girls are so broken that they just give it up every time after that. You also said that it was a creative gameplay mechanic. Why would I want to play a game like that? I have to play a game like that to decide I don't think it's right? Or should I not take your word for things?

Also, this isn't a free speech issue because, hello, this is in Japan..... Last time I checked the first amendment doesn't apply there but, hey, maybe you strict constitutionalists would like to invade them to give them that right.

And if it was a free speech issue, you guys surely know that the first amendment doesn't give anyone the right to say anything they want to. There are provisions for the general welfare and safety of the public that trump the first amendment. I think this might qualify. That being said, these games seem to still be legal since Hova went and played one. I'm not taking anyone's right to play the game away but don't think I won't call you a disgusting pervert for seeking out and playing it.

EDIT #1 -- dopa, Manhunt is completely different. You forget that he's being hunted down on TV for sport. The game speaks to the fact that will people will watch anything as long as it's violent. So there is some artistic merit. Please find me any sort of artistic merit for a rape game. Like I said, I don't think it does but I will listen to someone that says it has artistic merit instead of just saying it's protected by the Constitution and we shouldn't even be discussing banning it.

[itachiitachi]

I doubt the ban will stop anything, all the games will just move to being online downloads and the websites will be based in other countries. Even if the law somehow prevents Japanese companies from doing this companies elsewhere(china) will defiantly sell the games to the Japanese through the internet, it's too profitable not to.

[dopa345]

Article 21 of the Japanese Constitution:

"Freedom of assembly and association as well as speech, press and all other forms of expression are guaranteed. 2) No censorship shall be maintained, nor shall the secrecy of any means of communication be violated."

I couldn't care less what Japan wants to do. If the government wants to violate their Constitution and its citizens let it slide, then it's no big deal from me. However, if you want to live in a truly free society, then government censorship is fundamentally wrong with no exceptions.

[depascal22]

dopa, you have to look at the intent of free speech laws though. They're meant to allow people to say things about the government. They're meant to allow people to protest.

They do not allow people to say, "Fire!", "I'm going to kill you", "xxx is a proponent of rape and actively wishes every woman on this planet feel the liberation of a non-consensual sexual assault", or any other garbage like that. Not one of the sentences I just said are protected by our First Amendment or any other Constitution in the world.

So even with our Constitution, not ALL speech is guaranteed. Why? Because public safety trumps your rights to free speech.

[dopa345]

depascal, in the case where the speech in question is intended to cause imminent danger to public or individual safety, like falsely yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, then I agree, it is not protected. However a rape game doesn't fall under that category. It's an admittedly offensive form of entertainment but it would not pose an imminent threat to public safety.

[fullmetalfan720]

imo right to safety > free speech, i'd support the ban 100%

I suppose you would like to live in a world like 1984 then?

[Koggit]

sure why not

[HowStern]

Wait wait wait, someone in the UK sits down, watches porn and determines whether or not it is rape? What are the qualifications?

I don't know but it would absolutely make my life to find out this duty was the Queen's.

[georox]

EDIT #1 -- dopa, Manhunt is completely different. You forget that he's being hunted down on TV for sport. The game speaks to the fact that will people will watch anything as long as it's violent. So there is some artistic merit. Please find me any sort of artistic merit for a rape game. Like I said, I don't think it does but I will listen to someone that says it has artistic merit instead of just saying it's protected by the Constitution and we shouldn't even be discussing banning it.

Same argument against you.

People will watch anything as long as it is sexual, and everything is sexual, everything is erotic. Let's imagine I made a game that you rape people, and record it on camera for a TV show that has millions of viewers. Yea. Same argument. Difference is, your uncomfortable with the idea of people being raped, yet violence no longer phases you. You have been conditioned to violence. :D

America: One of the most uptight nations.

[rickonker]

Wow depascal, it's like you've taken every common misconception about free speech on the internet and packed them all into one post.

So. I can't use my freedom of speech to denounce them? I can't decide that a game that centers around rape isn't my cup of tea and sit here and say so? I can't decide that this type of game shouldn't be around for my daughter to find? Of course you can. Just like I can point out that you're wrong.

Also, this isn't a free speech issue because, hello, this is in Japan..... Last time I checked the first amendment doesn't apply there but, hey, maybe you strict constitutionalists would like to invade them to give them that right.

You haven't thought about this issue enough, because for some reason you've equated the first amendment with free speech. So no one outside the US can have free speech rights?

[DarkSageRK]

Freedom loses again. (http://kotaku.com/5275409/rape-games-officially-banned-in-japan)

[naes]

So even with our Constitution, not ALL speech is guaranteed. Why? Because public safety trumps your rights to free speech.
Video games are not a matter of public safety.

[HovaEscobar]

thats cool because rape games will just go underground and be more raw and better

[doodofdoods]

No need for a ban. in fact, I say the quality game companies need to add rape to their games, particularly GTA. If you can murder people you should be able to rape and molest them before/after you kill'em.

[apathylad]

The whole point of free speech is that it should have no limit. This case reminds me of how a guy got arrested for possessing lolicon manga in the USA. The issue is not about whether I think lolicon manga or games like Rapelay make me feel, and on the manga issue, Neil Gaiman was saying that a believer of freedom of speech should be willing to defend even the ideas and concepts he does not agree with. Yeah, I can't believe how angry people got over Rapelay when rape in ALL hentai (anime, manga, games) isn't exactly taboo.

[depascal22]

EDIT -- Please go about and play your rape games. I was an idiot for ever thinking that people would think that this was going too far or that we should try to protect our young girls from yet another negative stereotype. I will educate my daughter against them and call out anyone that chooses to play them for recreational "fun". I was silly for thinking that some CAGs would rather think about the children instead of wrapping themselves in the ideology that everything is art and nothing is bad. If I find out that any man in my family or man that marries into family is a fan of these games, I'll make sure everyone knows about it. This shit makes me sick and you should be too.

What's next? What if a game encourages you to go to playgrounds and entice young kids with different kind of candy? There will be a mini-game that determines whether the boy or girl was lured into your van and then there will be a short blurred out scene with the van rocking back and forth. Then, you can make a "moral" decision as to whether you let the child go or you slit their throat. A short driving section follows where you will see another short scene of a body dumping or a child getting thrown out of the door in the middle of nowhere. Another mini-game follows to make sure everyone around you believes your increasingly bizarre excuses for missing work/weddings/etc. What do you guys think about my new "game"? I'm giving a copy to every sex offender the minute he gets out of jail. It's my Constitutionally protected right isn't it?

rick -- I know that the First Amendment is really the freedom to assemble to protest a tyrannical gov't. If you read the first few posts in this thread, several people said that this was a free speech issue and that nothing should be banned or censored. It's been repeated several times. I countered with the fact that free speech isn't really free and gave several examples. You commented on one post instead of the entire body of work I contributed to this thread. We'll agree to disagree.

[Strell]

There is a distinct lack of regrettable pictures here, depascal. I'll remember this.

[depascal22]

There is a distinct lack of regrettable pictures here, depascal. I'll remember this.

Just wait until I develop Pedophila Trainer 101. Free demos for all sex offenders around the houses of CAGs that think this crap is art. I mean video games don't encourage people to do anything right so they shouldn't be pissed right?

[apathylad]

EDIT -- Please go about and play your rape games. I was an idiot for ever thinking that people would think that this was going too far or that we should try to protect our young girls from yet another negative stereotype. I will educate my daughter against them and call out anyone that chooses to play them for recreational "fun". I was silly for thinking that some CAGs would rather think about the children instead of wrapping themselves in the ideology that everything is art and nothing is bad. If I find out that any man in my family or man that marries into family is a fan of these games, I'll make sure everyone knows about it. This shit makes me sick and you should be too.

What's next? What if a game encourages you to go to playgrounds and entice young kids with different kind of candy? There will be a mini-game that determines whether the boy or girl was lured into your van and then there will be a short blurred out scene with the van rocking back and forth. Then, you can make a "moral" decision as to whether you let the child go or you slit their throat. A short driving section follows where you will see another short scene of a body dumping or a child getting thrown out of the door in the middle of nowhere. Another mini-game follows to make sure everyone around you believes your increasingly bizarre excuses for missing work/weddings/etc. What do you guys think about my new "game"? I'm giving a copy to every sex offender the minute he gets out of jail. It's my Constitutionally protected right isn't it?

rick -- I know that the First Amendment is really the freedom to assemble to protest a tyrannical gov't. If you read the first few posts in this thread, several people said that this was a free speech issue and that nothing should be banned or censored. It's been repeated several times. I countered with the fact that free speech isn't really free and gave several examples. You commented on one post instead of the entire body of work I contributed to this thread. We'll agree to disagree.

With all due respect, I am not endorsing pornography of any kind, and I don't know if you would consider this related but hear me out.

You see, recently a man was arrested in the USA for possessing lolicon manga, or erotic drawings of underage girls, and maybe there were some drawings of child rape. This became a pretty big scandal among comic book fans, writer's etc. because they felt that a piece of fiction was not in any way hurting anybody in the real world (which I find similar to this case).

An English writer wrote an interesting piece about this, saying the following:

"If you accept -- and I do -- that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.....Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost."


http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

[rickonker]

What's next? What if a game encourages you to go to playgrounds and entice young kids with different kind of candy? There will be a mini-game that determines whether the boy or girl was lured into your van and then there will be a short blurred out scene with the van rocking back and forth. Then, you can make a "moral" decision as to whether you let the child go or you slit their throat. A short driving section follows where you will see another short scene of a body dumping or a child getting thrown out of the door in the middle of nowhere. Another mini-game follows to make sure everyone around you believes your increasingly bizarre excuses for missing work/weddings/etc. What do you guys think about my new "game"? I'm giving a copy to every sex offender the minute he gets out of jail. It's my Constitutionally protected right isn't it?


I think that would be disgusting and I wouldn't encourage anyone to play it.


rick -- I know that the First Amendment is really the freedom to assemble to protest a tyrannical gov't. If you read the first few posts in this thread, several people said that this was a free speech issue and that nothing should be banned or censored. It's been repeated several times. I countered with the fact that free speech isn't really free and gave several examples. You commented on one post instead of the entire body of work I contributed to this thread. We'll agree to disagree.

No, you missed my point. You brought up the point that the first amendment does not apply in Japan.
Also, this isn't a free speech issue because, hello, this is in Japan..... Last time I checked the first amendment doesn't apply there

What I'm trying to tell you is that this is about free speech, not the first amendment. They are not the same thing.

[apathylad]

I found this from the dude of the Penn & Teller shows...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACSsUhFk7I

[depascal22]

I think that would be disgusting and I wouldn't encourage anyone to play it.




No, you missed my point. You brought up the point that the first amendment does not apply in Japan.


What I'm trying to tell you is that this is about free speech, not the first amendment. They are not the same thing.

My bad. I made a small mistake and instead of my thinking about the merits of my whole argument. You guys decided to pick apart that one statement and then dismiss my opinion. I forgot I was discussing this with people that were absolutely perfect.

My statement still stands. Free speech does not trump public safety. These games are nasty and we shouldn't be surprised that Japan wants to ban them.

That being said, I can't argue with you people about this. You're dead set that everything is OK. It's OK to depict graphic rape of a 15 year old, her mother, and her younger sister. It's OK to distribute this as art.

[rickonker]

My bad. I made a small mistake and instead of my thinking about the merits of my whole argument. You guys decided to pick apart that one statement and then dismiss my opinion. I forgot I was discussing this with people that were absolutely perfect.

My statement still stands. Free speech does not trump public safety. These games are nasty and we shouldn't be surprised that Japan wants to ban them.

That being said, I can't argue with you people about this. You're dead set that everything is OK. It's OK to depict graphic rape of a 15 year old, her mother, and her younger sister. It's OK to distribute this as art.
Do you think everything that should be legal is OK? Because I don't.

[dopa345]

I'm still not sure how you could categorically say that a rape game is a "public safety" issue. It's distasteful and morally degenerate material but it doesn't endanger public safety any more than a GTA game that promotes carjacking and assassination.

You could even make the argument that a rape game (or any other violent game) could theoretically help public safety in that it allows an outlet for someone with a propensity for violence towards women to express that urge in a way that wouldn't hurt anyone. That's just as valid an argument that a rape game is somehow a threat to public safety.

If there is no free speech, then the public is not safe.

[doodofdoods]

Just wait until I develop Pedophila Trainer 101. Free demos for all sex offenders around the houses of CAGs that think this crap is art. I mean video games don't encourage people to do anything right so they shouldn't be pissed right?

Virtual children getting raped is no different than virtual women as far as I'm concerned. While we're at it let's add some necrophilia and cannibalism options into the game. gotta get rid of the body somehow, might as well eat it. Story mode should let you join the Illuminati and run a child prostitution ring for them.

[georox]

rape and molest them before/after you kill'em.

Emphasis on that. :D

Virtual children getting raped is no different than virtual women as far as I'm concerned. While we're at it let's add some necrophilia and cannibalism options into the game. gotta get rid of the body somehow, might as well eat it. Story mode should let you join the Illuminati and run a child prostitution ring for them.

Only if we hire depascal to design it.

Seriously now, as I said before, it's just as bad as other things in games, thing is we aren't desensitized to sexuality, rape or otherwise. H-Games (Non-Rape) ones disturb people enough, add in rape and you've got an A-Bomb on your hands. If this game was about going around murdering people, nobody would give two fucks. People are desensitized. Stop thinking everything will hurt the fucking children, it's pure bullshit. Bad parents hurt children. If people want to protect kids, they should kill parents that do nothing for the kids. Games won't ruin our world, *we* will ruin our world.

[doodofdoods]

What will really help the children is if we loosen all of these laws. Child pornography should be legal to view. Having sex with "minors"(12-17) should be legal as well, so long as the minor is consenting. Prostitution should be legal too. and once all those things are legal, watch all of the sexually-motivated violent crimes committed against women/children drop significantly. These things are more dangerous because they're kept from being regulated.

People want sex and drugs, just because their desires offend you doesn't give you the right to restrict their freedoms. And it's not like it even works. If there's a big enough market for something, legal or illegal, people are going to find a way to get what they want. Groups are going to start offering their services to these persecuted consumers. And they're probably the worst groups we'd want running this stuff, yet we're giving these groups a monopoly by making these things illegal. Doesn't sound like it's been thought out too well by these people who talk about safety being the reason for banning certain recreational activities.

[Sarang01]

Frankly with all you people bitching about the rape games, haven't you heard of "Rape Tapes"? Those sell and you don't hear anything about banning them. Frankly I'm not surprised there are Rape games in Japanese PC given how huge Hentai is on the PC scene over there. I'd even go so far as to argue when I was in Japan at this one store in the PC section that's pretty much ALL I saw. Yeah it's like 90-95% of Japanese PC games sadly, with the other 5% being Nihon Falcom product, Sega and Koei as well as some Doujin shmup's.
Furthermore I would defend NAMBLA's view and I fucking despise them. You see I believe in the adage "I don't agree with your beliefs but I will defend to the death your right to say it.". So while I agree with NONE of NAMBLA's views I have no problem with them expousing it vocally. As soon as they act on it though I say throw their asses in prison immediately.
I can't say I'm surprised you wouldn't mind living in a world like "1984" koggit. You're a wimp Neo-Liberal, the kind anyone needs to prove wrong as much as possible. Old Liberals don't share your stupidity.

[Hydro2Oxide]

My statement still stands. Free speech does not trump public safety. These games are nasty and we shouldn't be surprised that Japan wants to ban them.

Then why not ban smoking (I know it's not speech but bare with me) It's self destructive and second hand smoke can be harmful. That's against public safety. That's even me agreeing with this being against public safety which it's not, it's a video game.

And you seem to have the idea we want to play these rape games. No, no I don't. It sounds really creepy and disgusting but as many have said here, if at any point you start knocking on one thing that's a freedom, you have no right to defend anything else because you are a hypocrite.

[Nohbdy]

That being said, I can't argue with you people about this. You're dead set that everything is OK. It's OK to depict fictional graphic rape of a 15 year old, her mother, and her younger sister. It's OK to distribute this as art.

Fixed.

[Koggit]

Then why not ban smoking (I know it's not speech but bare with me) It's self destructive and second hand smoke can be harmful. That's against public safety.
i'm pretty sure most/all areas did ban smoking in areas where others have to be nearby (here in seattle it's inside any commercial establishment, public building, or 25 feet of a door of such a building)... and i bet tobacco would be illegal if they didn't have such a powerful lobby.

That's even me agreeing with this being against public safety which it's not, it's a video game.
like any social science it's probably bullshit, but there have been a lot of surprising studies showing very strong correlation between vulgar media and sexual assault. like, that specific link, it's sort of crazy stuff. people who hear fuck on tv are more likely to rape a chick. that's the whole idea behind FCC censorship and local porn regulations. a game about raping goes a little far for me.



and re: all the free speech arguments, obscene speech isn't fully protected http://viciousmomma.blogspot.com/2006/04/protected-vs-unprotected-speech.html -- if you sell your 'rape tapes', sarang, in a conservative southern community, you most certainly could go to jail. in fact there were some very interesting cases around the dawn of teh interwebz with porn sites being held to local standards -- a couple in california who ran an amateur porn site went to jail after being prosecuted by a tennessee DA, despite the fact that their california community agreed their material did not shock the conscious, tennessee decided it goes against their standards and they went to jail for it. that case is a little ridiculous because of teh interwebz aspect, but if it were magazines or something it'd be way more clearcut. fact is this type of stuff is regulated, and if japan decides something went to too far, it's 100% their prerogative to ban it. japan's pretty tiny, not much different than california saying "this is okay, this isn't" re: porn.

[Darrith]

Aww shucks, I'm gonna have to find a new hobby.