The Ape Shit Nutjob Right Wingers Want the Gun Grab to Happen Memorial Thread

[mykevermin]

Exhibit A: Scott Roeder

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/06/07/2009-06-07_scott_roeder_charged_with_abortion_doctor_georg e_tillers_murder_says_more_violen.html

Exhibit B: James Von Brunn

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/dc.museum.shooting.suspect/index.html

Exhibit C: Richard Poplawski

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512560,00.html

Who's the next dipshit Republican asshole to go crazy and kill someone because of their warped and disgusting view of the world we live in?

[Magehart]

It's these people who make the rest of us right wing gun nuts look bad. Bleh.

[Dead of Knight]

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

[tivo]

Who's the next dipshit Republican asshole to go crazy and kill someone because of their warped and disgusting view of the world we live in?

I completely resent that. I expected better from you, myke.

[mykevermin]

I qualified Republican with "dipshit," so you've nothing to be offended by unless...

but for reals. five months with a Democrat president, and we've had three signficant nutjob shootings!?!?!?!? WTF?

[Brak]

Is this parody?

[tivo]

"Exhibit A,B, & C" are mentally ill nutjobs but to ask when will the "next dipshit Republican asshole to go crazy" is absurd. Similar incidences to the above murders have happened before:

- Tiller has been a target for quite some time including back in '93 when he was shot twice.
- The Holocaust Museum Murder is reminiscient of the 1998 US Capitol shooting.
- And the Poplawski Murders sound similar to many other shootouts.

and to claim that murders A & C are more "significant" than any other nutjob shootings that occur every single day is also absurd. You pick these cases out, try to tie them into Republican gun-toting religious ideology and imply that Democratic liberalism upholds the very best of human rights but you are dead wrong and I won't stand for it.

[KingBroly]

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

http://a671.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00198/07/62/198802670_l.jpg

???

[vherub]

I think when something is broken inside people, there is a greater chance that behavior happens in clusters
similar to an increase in suicides when public suicide policy is in the news or sensational suicide is in the news

[Msut77]

"Liberals" as the sub human enemy is pretty mainstream among cons.

It is inevitable that a few among them would start to believe the hype.

[perdition(troy]

Exhibit A: Scott Roeder

-Condemned by both democrats and republicans, pro-life and pro-choice groups. But hey, who cares, he was anti-abortion so we'll lump him in with conservatives and act like its something they all wanted. He may have been anti-abortion, but since when does murdering someone that murders someone else make what he did right? That's just ignorance there on his part. But anyways.

Exhibit B: James Von Brunn

-Ya, those white supremacists are the true base of the republican party. I don't even need to waste time with this one.

Richard Poplawski

-Another random neo-nazi nutcase.

blahblah blahblah blahblahblah.

Where was your topic when Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad killed an army recruiter and wounded another from his car because he disagreed with the Iraqi war? I mean how can you not be outraged by that? Oh well, I wouldn't expect any outrage from you regarding his death.

It's ok though, we'll ignore that one. I don't really know why you have to make this topic an us vs them topic. I mean honestly, you make it seem as though the three people you wrote about are supported an loved by the republican party. These people are nut cases. That's what they are. They aren't conservative, liberal, republican, or democrat. They have their own kind of club, its called club crazy.

[Msut77]

Exhibit A: Scott Roeder

-Condemned by both democrats and republicans, pro-life and pro-choice groups.

I seem to remember a prominent conservative who stated Tiller was merely reaping what he sowed. Bill O'Reilly all but paid for a hit to be put out on him.

Ya, those white supremacists are the true base of the republican party. I don't even need to waste time with this one.

There is little doubt who they vote for just as there is no doubt they are pandered to by the right.

Richard Poplawski

The guy was steeped in con bs just like Jim Adkisson. It is undeniable their crimes happened because of the crap put out daily by cons accusing liberals of god knows what.

These people are nut cases. That's what they are. They aren't conservative, liberal, republican, or democrat. They have their own kind of club, its called club crazy.

No, they are fucking conservative.

[perdition(troy]

^^ ignored because of large amounts of ignorance that seem to flow from your posts.

[mykevermin]

These people all buy into conservative rhetoric.

They are those who believe Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Alex Jones wackos.

They believe the gun grab is coming.
They believe the government is going to harm them.
They believe the government is becoming socialist.
They believe the jews run the banks.
They fight against the federalist government (did you read about von brunn's attempt at a citizen's arrest of Alan Greenspan? that's a page right out of the book of those wingnut fucks that thrustbucket has been following).
They are against the federal government.
They fight for state sovereignty.
They used firearms in support of, or in defense of, the second amendment.
They are anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-black.
They are xenophobic.

I am not writing them because the right SUPPORTS them. With Tiller, anti-abortion advocates got what they wanted - and you know they're thrilled on the inside. But they - and you, of course - can't publicly say that. You can't admit that you're secretly thrilled Roeder killed Tiller, and the clinic is closed.

The clinic is closed, and the terrorists won.

What we have is three cases in fewer than two months where people WHOSE BELIEF SYSTEMS AND IDEOLOGIES HAVE NOT ONLY COME SOLELY FROM THE RIGHT, BUT HAVE BEEN STOKED, FOSTERED AND FOMENTED BY LIMBAUGH, BECK, AND THE REST OF THOSE LYING FUCKS.

The ones who talk about the US becoming a socialist country, who cheer on the US failing, who say that a woman will still have the right to choose. Limbaugh and O'Reilly and Beck are the cheerleaders for these three people.

There's nothing even remotely close to "liberal" or "democrat" about these three nutcases - everything about them and their histories screams conservative republican. you are just ashamed to admit that your parties' hateful cheerleading has led to some more ruby ridge bullshit. you're ashamed to find out that words have consequences, and all the "I want america to fail," "where's obama's birth certificate," "we're becoming a socialist nation," "they're coming for your guns" nonsense actually MEANS SOMETHING to people.

Deny all you want. I've read that line somewhere before: "I am not my brother's keeper," I think it was.

[perdition(troy]

You forgot to throw in that 2/3 of them were anti-bush and supported 9/11 conspiracy theories.

No, I am not happy that Tiller is dead. Why would I be glad that someone was murdered? That's just wrong.

[homeland]

Shepard Smith agrees with you Myke. He talks about how much "hate email" has increased and gotten nastier, since the election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvunbIWNyI




Still curious why Tiller's killing hasn't been labeled terrorism. The killer stated that more killings are planned. He's trying to change or prevent legal acts through fear and intimidation.

[depascal22]

Because calling a right wing nutjob a terrorist confuses the simple people of the Bible Belt. According to Fox News, only brown people from the Middle East can possibly considered terrorists.

This all goes to show that the American public is more gullible than ever. They cling to their favorite news channel and get all their info from there. How else do you still think that a significant number of Americans think that Obama is a Muslim? Facts and truth mean next to nothing anymore.

[mykevermin]

You forgot to throw in that 2/3 of them were anti-bush and supported 9/11 conspiracy theories.

No, I am not happy that Tiller is dead. Why would I be glad that someone was murdered? That's just wrong.

Being anti-bush doesn't exactly ruin your conservative credentials. all the right-wing talking nutjobs have been anti-bush since late-06/mid-07.

You're also trying to avoid the issue that their political views are inherently right-wing in nature. there is nothing leftist, there is nothing centrist. they are all right-wingers.

[UncleBob]

Am I the only one who thinks that lumping these folks in the "conservative" category would be about the same as lumping the members of ELF, ARM and similar movements into the "liberal" category?

I'd like to also mention Bill Ayers and the Weatherman group.

It's easy to take someone on the extreme fringes and hold them up as an example of the main stream.

It's also ignorant and wrong.

[depascal22]

They went anti-Bush because he didn't outlaw abortion, kick out the illegals, or find Osama Bin Laden.

Bob, how about you use an example from the last twenty years. You can't compare the political and social climate of the 60's and 70's with the one of today. Note that nobody brought up Timothy McVeigh and even that's more current that Bill Ayers.

[UncleBob]

Oh, I'm sorry - I wasn't aware that the ARM and ELF had been inactive for the last 20 years.

[tivo]

"Liberals" as the sub human enemy is pretty mainstream among cons.

It is inevitable that a few among them would start to believe the hype.

I think more conservatives are baffled by the policies of liberals. i.e. In just human rights most liberals are anti Gitmo/terrorist waterboarding but pro late term abortions. Saving lives inside and outside the womb should be the obvious choice- or so I thought.

[Msut77]

The guy I brought up James Adkisson was using Bernard Goldbergs book like a to do list of murder.

Don't even get me started on Ann Coulter and her BS.

p.s. tivo, you don't get to use the word think. Not until you know actually have something resembling a thought.

It should really read I think Rush told me more conservatives are...

[depascal22]

Oh, I'm sorry - I wasn't aware that the ARM and ELF had been inactive for the last 20 years.

My bad. I didn't see that you put one relevant nugget in all that shit. ELF is active but a google search of ARM doesn't bring anything up in the first couple pages.

And I don't think many of us are pro-late term abortion. I would be perfectly comfortable outlawing that barbaric procedure if we could get promises that it would end the abortion debate. How about it?

[tivo]

Still curious why Tiller's killing hasn't been labeled terrorism. The killer stated that more killings are planned. He's trying to change or prevent legal acts through fear and intimidation.

The Big man himself, Bill O'Rielly, called Tiller's killer a "Domestic Terrorist" in his talking points segment on 6/8.

[RAMSTORIA]

1) mentally ill nut
2) 90 year old conspiracy theory nut
3) moron down on his luck

i know you wouldnt let certain other posters get away with using those stories as anecdotal evidence. these guys werent really republican (though i agree with you theyre more likely to vote for them rather than democrats) but cmon now.

heres a graph to help

msut - democrats - moderates - repubican - these guys

why not include Lovelle Mixon, the guy who shot 4 cops in oakland? why not include carlos bledsoe aka Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad for killing an army recruiter and shooting another. some idiot just killed 1 and shot 6 others in a strip club (http://www.thecelebritycafe.com/features/28287.html).

they all have one thing in common, they are all nuts. but you only bring up the 3 to bash the ideaology you disagree with (despite the killers themselves not necessarily agreeing with said ideaology)

[perdition(troy]

The Big man himself, Bill O'Rielly, called Tiller's killer a "Domestic Terrorist" in his talking points segment on 6/8.

doh.

[UncleBob]

My bad. I didn't see that you put one relevant nugget in all that shit.

Yeah, I know... my posts can sometimes be hard to find in between the posts before it and after it. :D

[depascal22]

Still nothing about the abortion question, tivo? Seriously, we'll give you late-term abortion in exchange for letting women decide in the first three months.

[mykevermin]

The Big man himself, Bill O'Rielly, called Tiller's killer a "Domestic Terrorist" in his talking points segment on 6/8.

And every segment on Tiller from 5/31 on focused on defending himself against accusations of implicit responsibility, reporting on biased and unfounded estimates of the number of operations Tiller performed over his career, and calling him "Tiller the Baby Killer" and "Dr. Killer."

You simply can not absolve O'Reilly of his responsibility in this.

[mykevermin]

The alleged shooter at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum spread historical white supremacist views and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories through a Web site that included the hoax document “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and a link to a Holocaust denial Web site.

The attack demonstrates why it is a mistake to ignore bigoted conspiracy theories. Law enforcement needs to enforce laws against criminal behavior. Vicious bigoted speech, however, is often protected by the First Amendment. We do not need new laws or to encourage government agencies to further erode our civil liberties. We need to stand up as moral people and speak out against the spread of bigoted conspiracy theories. That’s not a police problem, that’s our problem as people responsible for defending a free society.

Demagogues and conspiracy theorists use the same four “tools of fear.” These are 1) dualism; 2) scapegoating; 3) demonization; and 4) apocalyptic aggression.

The basic dynamics remain the same no matter the ideological leanings of the demonizers or the identity of their targets. It is the combination of demagogic demonization and widespread scapegoating that is so dangerous. In such circumstances, angry allegations can quickly turn into apocalyptic aggression and violence targeting scapegoated groups like Jews or immigrants. Meanwhile, our ability to resolve disputes through civic debate and compromise is hobbled.

Apocalyptic aggression is fueled by right-wing pundits who demonize scapegoated groups and individuals in our society, implying that it is urgent to stop them from wrecking the nation. Some angry people in their audience already believe conspiracy theories in which the same scapegoats are portrayed as subversive, destructive or evil. Add in aggressive apocalyptic ideas that suggest time is running out and quick action mandatory, and you have a perfect storm of mobilized resentment threatening to rain bigotry and violence across the United States.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/hate-crimes-and-extremist-politics/

[Msut77]

Here are some quotes from the guy I mentioned previously although you could honestly say some of this stuff was from any number of posters here.

"Know this if nothing else: This was a hate crime. I hate the damn left-wing liberals. There is a vast left-wing conspiracy in this country & these liberals are working together to attack every decent & honorable institution in the nation, trying to turn this country into a communist state. Shame on them....

"This was a symbolic killing. Who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book. I'd like to kill everyone in the mainstream media. But I know those people were inaccessible to me. I couldn't get to the generals & high ranking officers of the Marxist movement so I went after the foot soldiers, the chickenshit liberals that vote in these traitorous people. Someone had to get the ball rolling. I volunteered. I hope others do the same. It's the only way we can rid America of this cancerous pestilence."

"I thought I'd do something good for this Country Kill Democrats til the cops kill me....Liberals are a pest like termites. Millions of them Each little bite contributes to the downfall of this great nation. The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is to kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just kill yourself. do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals.

[perdition(troy]

Ya, because there are so many posts here I have read that have conservatives talk about wanting to kill people who have other views. Oh wait, thats just the other side talking about wishing rush was dead. My bad.

[tivo]

And every segment on Tiller from 5/31 on focused on defending himself against accusations of implicit responsibility, reporting on biased and unfounded estimates of the number of operations Tiller performed over his career, and calling him "Tiller the Baby Killer" and "Dr. Killer."

You simply can not absolve O'Reilly of his responsibility in this.

The Washington Post and a Kansas research group claimed roughly 60,000 abortions were performed by Tiller. Dr. Paul McHugh, the head of psychiatry at J.H.U., claimed Tiller use mental health provision to brutally terminate fetuses for just about any reason. And far right groups coined the names "Tiller the Baby Killler". O'Reilly cited all of these sources when he spoke (he frequently cites his sources when speaking) and was therefore only reporting. O'Reilly also said it was within Kansas Law. You can say O'Reilly is guilty of increasing public awareness but to put any more blame of the actions of a nutjob on O'Reilly is insane. O'Reilly condemned the murder of Tiller and stressed that "anarchy and vigilantism will assure the collapse of any country."

Watch O'Reilly- you can disagree with his views but he does bring up stories, presents facts, and performs analysis with those facts all without the snide, sarcastic spin seen spasmodically in shows similar to the snakish KEITH OBERMAN!

[docvinh]

I think more conservatives are baffled by the policies of liberals. i.e. In just human rights most liberals are anti Gitmo/terrorist waterboarding but pro late term abortions. Saving lives inside and outside the womb should be the obvious choice- or so I thought.

Eh, this is the same as many conservatives protesting abortion and then being okay with execution. I dunno, I'm reluctant to paint this as a conservative thing, as it seems that these people were probably emotionally disturbed to begin with.

[Msut77]

This quote:

"The GOP will not survive if it doesn't accept the fact that the Democrats are its enemy and that it must begin to play for keeps. That means finding another Lee Atwater - only meaner - and not apologizing when we get him" (washingtontimes.com)

Is from a mainstream conservative (he happens to ignore the fact Atwater basically repented later on on in life) I have pointed out before that this kind of rhetoric is a rock solid part of the conservative movement.

[tivo]

Still nothing about the abortion question, tivo? Seriously, we'll give you late-term abortion in exchange for letting women decide in the first three months.

What are you talking about? How/why are you and I going to negotiate the pro-life/pro-choice debate? But o'kay, on one condition... I want every woman who has had an abortion to be physically labeled/tattooed so that I and most of society can call them whores/failures.

Your response?

[depascal22]

I think more conservatives are baffled by the policies of liberals. i.e. In just human rights most liberals are anti Gitmo/terrorist waterboarding but pro late term abortions. Saving lives inside and outside the womb should be the obvious choice- or so I thought.

This is why I bring up the issue. I didn't bring it up first.

My response to the tattooing is that it's absurd but if it did go through I don't want to hear anything when your mother, sister, or daughter came home with the "Scarlet Letter".

[perdition(troy]

Is from a mainstream conservative (he happens to ignore the fact Atwater basically repented later on on in life) I have pointed out before that this kind of rhetoric is a rock solid part of the conservative movement.

And?

[Msut77]

What tivo and I think hovaescobar (one of his earliest posts) write just goes to show the choice debate isn't about "Life" it is about controlling women and punishing "sluts".

[depascal22]

We must punish the sluts and not the men that impregnate them. It might be a whole different ballgame if dudes manned up and accepted their responsibility but that wouldn't be very Republican would it? In a just world, there would be no abortion but there wouldn't be dudes that have absolutely nothing to do with their children emotionally or financially.

[tivo]

Eh, this is the same as many conservatives protesting abortion and then being okay with execution. I dunno, I'm reluctant to paint this as a conservative thing, as it seems that these people were probably emotionally disturbed to begin with.

R U Kidding Me? You don't see the distinction between killing an innocent baby vs. killing a convicted criminal?

Equality of action does not include equality of morals or reason.

[Msut77]

R U Kidding Me? You don't see the distinction between killing an innocent baby vs. killing a convicted criminal?

Equality of action does not include equality of morals or reason.

Are you defining innocent baby as "fertilized egg"?

[depascal22]

R U Kidding Me? You don't see the distinction between killing an innocent baby vs. killing a convicted criminal?

Equality of action does not include equality of morals or reason.


It's funny that conservatives don't support that same innocent baby when he's out the womb. Then they just become welfare babies that suck on the tit of our government. Right wing nut jobs are even worse in that they will kill to stop what can't ever be stopped.

You want to stop abortion? Give single unwed underage mothers more than a kick in the ass when they're down. Ask the media to stop sensationalizing sex. Actually talk to the young females in your immediate family and let them know what's going to happen. Don't scare them. Educate them.

Outlawing abortion makes as much sense as outlawing premarital sex. A law on the book will never stop young people from getting it on but you can lower the number of abortions by treating these girls like human beings instead of garbage.

EDIT -- Left wing extremists are just as bad when they firebomb companies for environmental crimes.

[Msut77]

And?

And so when cons try to tap dance around what happens to be the direct results of their rhetoric by say blaming it on crazy extremists they are lying/being disingenuous.

[tivo]

We must punish the sluts and not the men that impregnate them. It might be a whole different ballgame if dudes manned up and accepted their responsibility but that wouldn't be very Republican would it? In a just world, there would be no abortion but there wouldn't be dudes that have absolutely nothing to do with their children emotionally or financially.

Women have a lot more control over the 'who' and the 'when' part of sex. (except rape) Its also "their bodies." Plus with so many contraceptives out there- common ladies. So yea, my idea[joke] was absurd (the Scarlett letter is a terrible book) but real Pro-Life people want abortions to occur after very few, if any, exceptions. So, i'm probably not the best guy to negotiate the abortion debate. absurd question = absurd answer.

Are you defining innocent baby as "fertilized egg"?

if you get down to the science and terminology of it = yes.

It's funny that conservatives don't support that same innocent baby when he's out the womb. Then they just become welfare babies that suck on the tit of our government.

You want to stop abortion? Give single unwed underage mothers more than a kick in the ass when they're down.

You want more money to go to unwed single mothers?? That's the opposite of what Republicans want. It also sounds that you'd be rewarding stupid behavior. Single mothers are already glorified by their struggle. We need to reverse that and make them responsible for their actions.


Here's a stat: 53% of Latinas are pregnant by age 20.

[docvinh]

Are you defining innocent baby as "fertilized egg"?

This. I can agree that there is maybe some ambiguity when life begins, but there is no doubt when you execute someone, they are clearly alive. If you're going to make the argument that outlawing abortion is about saving life, be consistent and be against execution also or your argument doesn't really hold water.

[Msut77]

if you get down to the science and terminology of it = yes.

You can freeze dry and send a fertilized egg via Fedex.

So no egg does not equal baby.

This should probably be the last said on it since I don't think the thread should be derailed any further.

[tivo]

This. I can agree that there is maybe some ambiguity when life begins, but there is no doubt when you execute someone, they are clearly alive. If you're going to make the argument that outlawing abortion is about saving life, be consistent and be against execution also or your argument doesn't really hold water.

Really? R U Serious? Doesn't hold water? Your thought process, your physical skull is compete ullage. [look it up] There's a human life forming in a young female that will soon develop into a baby and, if unimpeded, will be a human/us citizen/life force/Boy or Girl. Then there are the bad guys. We WANT to kill the BAD guys. These are individuals who face back to back life sentences for raping and murdering innocent people and have 0 chance of contributing to society.

Alright, let me turn the tables and ask: Will you let us abort terrorists or convicted criminals? many of your counterparts say 'no'.

[Ugamer_X]

R U Kidding Me? You don't see the distinction between killing an innocent baby vs. killing a convicted criminal?

Equality of action does not include equality of morals or reason.
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?

[docvinh]

Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?

I don't think he can see the contradiction in his whole thought process. Regardless, this is getting waaaayyy off topic.

[tivo]

This should probably be the last said on it since I don't think the thread should be derailed any further.

We can stop. But to be honest here, and not to take away too much from what i've said as I was playing the devil's advocate, but I have been mostly pro-choice personally. I figured that women who were too stupid/irresponsible to windup pregnant shouldn't deserve the ability to procreate, to enjoy the blessing of their own child. Prevent another bastard/latch-key kid from coming into a deranged world with a deadbeat mother/father. Let them abort- its better than having more money go to the mother or the child. But abortion is like a "get out of jail free" card- if you know what i mean. Abortion says that its okay to be irresponsible and avoid using one of many devices to prevent fertilization. Abortion trivializes life to some extent. And that's not good. Maybe abortion needs more pain inflicted on the woman (like childbirth) to really wake her and society up. But I can only control my life and be responsible for myself.

[tivo]

Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?

I said it before, equality of action does not mean equality of morals. The murderer had a choice in life and he chose to kill someone for some reason. If his victim could use self defense, save his own life, and kill the murderer then society would have no problem with that for the victim retained his morals. Society retains its morals when executing a murderer. The murderer has become a beast and society's self defense against him is execution, the ultimate deterrence against other innocent killings.

[Ugamer_X]

I said it before, equality of action does not mean equality of morals. The murderer had a choice in life and he chose to kill someone for some reason. If his victim could use self defense, save his own life, and kill the murderer then society would have no problem with that for the victim retained his morals. Society retains its morals when executing a murderer. The murderer has become a beast and society's self defense against him is execution, the ultimate deterrence against other innocent killings.
I'm going to ignore other facets of the argument (selfish of me to sidetrack the thread any further) and just get to my ultimate point - You still think that murder is okay.

[tivo]

^^ could you not understand what I said?

[tivo]

^^^ andd you logged off.
Well this thread has actually gone full circle: do these three nutjobs deserve the death penalty?

I say yes, yes, and yes. (unless they want to plead insanity)

[trq]

Yeah, I'm sure if these three guys were named Hassan, Abdul, and Mohammed, right-wingers would be just *bending over backwards* to make sure that everyone knows they're just "unconnected nut-jobs," and not indicative of any larger political philosophy/religion/culture.

On the plus side? I learned what "ullage" means.

[camoor]

Yeah, I'm sure if these three guys were named Hassan, Abdul, and Mohammed, right-wingers would be just *bending over backwards* to make sure that everyone knows they're just "unconnected nut-jobs," and not indicative of any larger political philosophy/religion/culture.

Wahhhh they started it!

This thread is really pathetic. Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship.

[UncleBob]

Look, I'm (mostly) for allowing women to choose, but the argument that if you're against abortion, you should be against capital punishment is just ignorant.

Face facts - some folks deserve to die. Period. Now, I'm not going to sit here and create a list of who should and who shouldn't live - that's not my place. But there are some people out there that as punishment for their deeds and the good of society - just need to be put down.

[trq]

Wahhhh they started it!

Yeah, expecting consistent morals from the people who are most vocal about allegedly having them is incredibly childish. Glad to know you're above being bothered by such petty things; I didn't realize you'd become a tulku so quickly.

[camoor]

Yeah, expecting consistent morals from the people who are most vocal about allegedly having them is incredibly childish. Glad to know you're above being bothered by such petty things; I didn't realize you'd become a tulku so quickly.

The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites, are you just waking up to this? Regardless people like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant.

It just saddens me that the people I though of as progressive are starting to act like the arrogant boobs in charge during the reign of Bush Jr.

People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans.

If your point is that guns should/will be taken away from everyone because three insane people used a gun to create a tragedy, then IMO you don't have much of a point. I feel foolish even posting because I suspect this is a joke thread, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway.

[Brak]

Shepard Smith agrees with you Myke. He talks about how much "hate email" has increased and gotten nastier, since the election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvunbIWNyI
I really like Shepard Smith.

[mykevermin]

camoor is the zewone of politics.

he's not really in favor of anything, just being staunchly opposed to whatever it appears the majority are into.

[Brak]

He made a good point, though...

[tivo]

He made a good point, though...

Which one is good?

"Wahhhh they started it!"
"This thread is really pathetic."
"Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship."
"The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites"
"People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans. "
"People like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant."

[Msut77]

He made a good point, though...

People keep saying these were just a group of "crazies" but they left letters etc. showing organization and that are coherent at least by the standards of right wing cosmology (the neo nazi guy was even a freeper and a birther).

As for conflating Republicans with extreme religious fanatics anyone who disagrees with that is probably a lying fool, this is camoor so...

[fullmetalfan720]

Damn, you guys are worse than Jack Thompson. Oh shit, he plays video games, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban violent video games! They're going to tell him to kill someone. Oh shit, he's a conservative, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban Rush, and Beck and all the conservatives from radio! And ban guns! They're going to tell someone to kill someone!

Then you come up with these conspiracy theories that conservatives everywhere are planning to kill people in mass murders. Seriously?

[Msut77]

Damn, you guys are worse than Jack Thompson. Oh shit, he plays video games, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban violent video games! They're going to tell him to kill someone. Oh shit, he's a conservative, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban Rush, and Beck and all the conservatives from radio! And ban guns! They're going to tell someone to kill someone!

Then you come up with these conspiracy theories that conservatives everywhere are planning to kill people in mass murders. Seriously?

I read what right wingers write all the time, even what passes for mainstream among them dabbles in this crap.

It is a part of the conservative zeitgeist and is nothing new.

Kindly stfu.

[perdition(troy]

I'm sure he will stfu as soon as you stop making such ignorant posts.

[tivo]

^^ Is it just me or does everybody read Msut77's name as "Smut 77"

[Msut77]

I'm sure he will stfu as soon as you stop making such ignorant posts.

You keep using that word but it doesn't mean what you wish it to mean.

[perdition(troy]

And you keep making stupid posts that don't make as much sense to a normal person as you wish they would. But anyways, the point of this topic is you shouldn't decide to lump some random crazies in with a political party. ELF and ALF aren't something I would lump with the democratic party, even though they share many core beliefs with them. Fringe groups are fringe groups and there is no reason to try to tie them to a political party.

[Brak]

Which one is good?

"Wahhhh they started it!"
"This thread is really pathetic."
"Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship."
"The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites"
"People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans. "
"People like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant."
- People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans.

I know this is blatantly obvious to say, but:

Those people do definitely tend to be Republicans, but you can't say that Republicans tend to be those people - that's just ridiculous.

Now, I know a lot of ultra-Conservatives are racing to Kmart to buy armaments before Obama turns us Red -- which is hilarious... And I'm sure a lot of Klansmen are conspiring to hit the president -- which is awful. But I'd like to believe that these people are truly, and simply, at their core, just ignorant / bat-shit insane.

[Msut77]

And you keep making stupid posts that don't make as much sense to a normal person as you wish they would.

Even if that were true (the problem looks to be that you consider yourself normal) that would not be ignorant.

But anyways, the point of this topic is you shouldn't decide to lump some random crazies in with a political party.

Except this isn't random nor are these people technically crazy you wanton choad.

[Brak]

You really, really suck cock at arguing, Msut77. :lol:

If you're any older than - say - 17, I'll eat my hat.

[Msut77]

You really, really suck cock at arguing, Msut77. :lol:

If you're any older than - say - 17, I'll eat my hat.

I am the only one "arguing" anything that is not just a complete denial of reality.

[Brak]

Or you could just learn how to debate properly.

Then everyone will win!

[Msut77]

Or you could just learn how to debate properly.

Then everyone will win!

You could just you know continue to stick your fingers in your ears and yell because you would rather just make shit up.

Is that proper enough?

[Brak]

Exactly what was I ignoring and what was I making up? :)

[Msut77]

Exactly what was I ignoring and what was I making up?

You are ignoring reality, the decades of right wing political spiel where their political enemies are cast as traitors, commies and general vermin. You see this today among number of right wingers, again even the ones considered mainstream are quite explicit.

http://www.boingboing.net/200905051404.jpg

Again this kind of crap is basically mainstream for the con base.

As for making shit up these attacks were not entirely random, in several examples they were targeted either in terms of an assassination or because of who they were.

Nor are the attackers were what one would call crazy any more than any other acts of political violence are done by crazy people.

[perdition(troy]

And yet you ignore the fact that Von Brunn has entire blogs dedicated to railing against fox news and the free market system. What a great conservative!

[fullmetalfan720]

You are ignoring reality, the decades of right wing political spiel where their political enemies are cast as traitors, commies and general vermin. You see this today among number of right wingers, again even the ones considered mainstream are quite explicit.

http://www.boingboing.net/200905051404.jpg

Again this kind of crap is basically mainstream for the con base.

As for making shit up these attacks were not entirely random, in several examples they were targeted either in terms of an assassination or because of who they were.

Nor are the attackers were what one would call crazy any more than any other acts of political violence are done by crazy people.

Hey look, I can find crazy liberals too!
http://moniquemonicat.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/obama-messiah.jpg (http://moniquemonicat.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/obama-messiah.jpg)
http://i3.photoblog.com/photos3/16929-1218812195-11-l.jpg (http://i3.photoblog.com/photos3/16929-1218812195-11-l.jpg)
http://killrushlimbaugh.com/kill_rush_limbaugh2.jpg (http://killrushlimbaugh.com/kill_rush_limbaugh2.jpg)

I suppose all liberals think Obama is God, and the messiah, and that Rush should be dead?

[RAMSTORIA]

dont get sucked in brak...

[Msut77]

Hey look, I can find crazy liberals too!

And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?

http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/rooftops.jpg

Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so and even Republican Congresspeople use this kind of language.

[perdition(troy]

And yet msut ignores talking points again, because there is absolutely nothing to twist the facts his way.

[fullmetalfan720]

And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?

http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/rooftops.jpg

Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so.

Okay, you don't like those, here's some more.
These are some google results for kill conservatives:
http://soundingthetrumpetblog.com/2004/12/14/kill-conservatives/
This (http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2004/12/13ky/B2-uofl12130-3684.html) is interesting. A sociology lecturer in the University of Louisville (Louisville, Kentucky) threatened to kill conservatives. According to the Louisville Patriot (http://www.loupatriot.com/) the lecturer said:It was the religious zealots who say they are voting on morals. I think we should all buy AK-47s and shoot them all! That’s what I would suggest, if it were allowed.”
A remote California beach out near San Francisco. Two Christian Missionaries. A young hetro Christian couple about to be married - shot on the beach in their sleep for their Christian beliefs by Left Wing "Terrorists". Devil faces drawn on driftwood nearby and other clues point to an attack on them for their beliefs.
When that attack on Conservatives happened, there was barely a mention in the media.
With this incident in Tennessee, the media/Liberals are swarming all over it trying to make hay and "score points".
Lest we forget Waco (no matter what the opinion), Ruby Ridge, etc.
Lest we forget, 2007 a gunman wearing a "beanie" cap who had a grudge against Christians cap kills two people in a church in Colorado.
Liberal fascists have a long history of targeting those who aren't "one of them".
Repeat loudly and often.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2052662/posts
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
Colorado Church Gunman Had Grudge Against Christian Group, Cops Say

Today pond scum Limbaugh had the audacity to say, I hope he fails. This remark was made in reference to President Obama. Well , I and a few million others have this to say to Rush Limbaugh, 'WE ALL HOPE YOU EXPIRE', and the sooner the better. Limbaugh does not deserve to live in this country, let alone be paid for the trash that comes out of his mouth. If ever there was a candidate to be tarred and feathered, it is Limbaugh. I am so disgusted by this thing that I had to vent my disdain on this public blog. I could say a lot more, but it is not worth anymore of my time. Please take that man off the air.http://community.comcast.net/comcastportal/board/message?board.id=news&thread.id=379638&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Here's some results for kill ann coulter:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Advertising_mag_asks_Ann_Coulter_to_0612.html

In a striking post, AdAge magazine, a leading magazine for the advertising community, has asked Godless author Ann Coulter to kill herself, RAW STORY (http://rawstory.com/) has discovered. Buried in the article, a humorous attack on the mainstream media, was the following quote.
"Would it kill you, 'Godless' author Ann Coulter, to do us all a favor and kill yourself? (Oh, well, yeah, I guess it would kill you.)
"After her recent rabidly hateful, foaming-at-the-mouth, sub-human 'Today' show appearance -- in which she reiterated her assertion that 9/11 widows are "enjoying their husband's deaths" -- even her former supporters began to fantasize about how much nicer the world would be if it were Coulterless."http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/forums/awareness-politics/120561-someone-kill-ann-coulter-please.html

Someone kill Ann Coulter please...


It's called sensationalism.

[perdition(troy]

And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?


Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so.

I'll say this nicely. gtfo off with that crap. we had to put up with 8 years of people talking about how bush should die, and there was an entire movie made about his assassination. and yet you come in here acting like your party is the perfect loving democratic party?

[Msut77]

I'll say this nicely. gtfo off with that crap.

What crap?

Sean Hannity writes books conflating Liberalism with terror and despotism and how to win the war on Liberalism and like I said don't even get me started on Ann Coulter.

WTF do you think is the logical conclusion to all that kind of shit you piddling little worm?

Did you think America was immune from this type of political violence?

[fullmetalfan720]

What crap?

Sean Hannity writes books conflating Liberalism with terror and despotism and how to win the war on Liberalism and like I said don't even get me started on Ann Coulter.

WTF do you think is the logical conclusion to all that kind of shit you piddling little worm?

Did you think America was immune from this type of political violence?

Then why do liberals say we should kill conservatives?

[perdition(troy]

@ msut

Do you know how to read points someone brought up in previous points and then address them? Instead you completely ignore them and act like no one is going to notice you looking like a complete tool.

[Msut77]

Then why do liberals say we should kill conservatives?

A better question would be why do conservatives actually murder liberals?

It might be because according to their world view it is a perfectly rational thing to do, unless you know you start saying the civil rights murders of the 60's were done by crazy people.

[fullmetalfan720]

A better question would be why do conservatives actually murder liberals?

It might be because according to their world view it is a perfectly rational thing to do, unless you know you start saying the civil rights murders of the 60's were done by crazy people.

Did you even read my posts?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
There you are. A liberal murdering a conservative. Msut's conclusion: Liberals are peaceful and rational.
Now, when a conservative murders a liberal. Msut's conclusion: Conservatives are dangerous killers, and we should ban all guns.

The civil rights murders of the 60's were done by the KKK. If you think the KKK is a typical conservative organization, then I guess the Weathermen, Socialist Worker's Party and the Symbionese Liberation Army are typical liberal organizations.

[tivo]

@ Smut

What do you have against Ann Coulter?

[perdition(troy]

She's a woman with opinions that differ from his own. Does he need to have any other reason. *eyeroll*

[mykevermin]

Ann Coulter is as much genuine political discourse as professional wrestling is genuine fighting.

I'm glad this thread became a battle of .jpgs used to say that one party's wingnuts are the same as the others.

Since, you know, jpegs kill people as efficiently as bullets do.

[RAMSTORIA]

hey i tried a serious reply, but i was quickly derailed by troy, msut and tivo

[JJSP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41PShXcq-Fs

Because we all need an easily concealed sniper rifle.

[mykevermin]

1) mentally ill nut
2) 90 year old conspiracy theory nut
3) moron down on his luck

i know you wouldnt let certain other posters get away with using those stories as anecdotal evidence. these guys werent really republican (though i agree with you theyre more likely to vote for them rather than democrats) but cmon now.

heres a graph to help

msut - democrats - moderates - repubican - these guys

why not include Lovelle Mixon, the guy who shot 4 cops in oakland? why not include carlos bledsoe aka Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad for killing an army recruiter and shooting another. some idiot just killed 1 and shot 6 others in a strip club (http://www.thecelebritycafe.com/features/28287.html).

they all have one thing in common, they are all nuts. but you only bring up the 3 to bash the ideaology you disagree with (despite the killers themselves not necessarily agreeing with said ideaology)

if only one of these three incidents happened, i'd agree that it's anomalous.

but this, and others sure to come from right-wing nuts, show (to me) a pattern of attitude and behavior that suggests many on the right have no idea how to be...how should I say this..."gracious losers." Sure, for 8 years we put up with Bush policies we hated, but I don't recall killing anyone to try to change a policy.

You see individuals who aren't representative of the whole, and I see patterned behavior that may or may not represent the mainstream of the right, but is undoubtedly encouraged and egged on by mainstream right-wing media folks.

[RAMSTORIA]

if only one of these three incidents happened, i'd agree that it's anomalous.

but this, and others sure to come from right-wing nuts, show (to me) a pattern of attitude and behavior that suggests many on the right have no idea how to be...how should I say this..."gracious losers." Sure, for 8 years we put up with Bush policies we hated, but I don't recall killing anyone to try to change a policy.

You see individuals who aren't representative of the whole, and I see patterned behavior that may or may not represent the mainstream of the right, but is undoubtedly encouraged and egged on by mainstream right-wing media folks.

it is anomalous (or at least im optimistic enough to think it is), the three people and incidents you brought up have little in common except that they arent liberal. because of that common thread youre making the assumption that they are part of "the right", which is a gross over statement. as i said before, ill concede that they are more likely to vote for mccain than they are obama, but they arent "the right". you also insinuate that they committed these atrocities to "change policy". so let me just put my 2 cents on the three and their attempt to change policy.

1) scott roeder. this is the only one id say would fits in the changing policy generalization. he killed tiller and its pretty clear cut why he did it. but lets clear a couple things up. this is not (sadly) new. extremists like roeder have killed abortion doctors in the past and incited violence against clinics (bombings, arson, etc). but the vast majority of "the right" would not condone the actions of this man.

and as for them being "thrilled" on the inside, i bet some are "thrilled" to have one less clinic around, but not necessarily that tiller was killed for that to happen. id correlate these people with so called "eco-terrorists" on the left you know that ones to vandalize, arson and break into animal testing labs and such. animal right activists have said that murdering researchers is "morally justified". but i wouldnt say that their actions represent the left as a whole or that the left would be thrilled by those actions.

2) james von brunn. a mentally ill fringe bigot. now he wasnt trying to change policy, he was just making a statement. he doesnt like jews. well bigots like him evidently ignore the fact that the right, republicans in particular, are (arguably) the biggest supporters of israel. hes just a far far far right lunatic with a violent criminal past.

3) richard poplawski. this guy went on a shooting rampage for lord knows why. you assume that hes some part of a right wing radical movement because someone that knew him, not the man himself, said that he was worried about changes to gun laws. is that the reason he went on the killing spree? perhaps, but unlikely. a much more likely reason is that he had lost his job, was unemployed, and probably mentally unstable to begin with. to think that hes part of some sort of movement because an acquaintance said he was worried about gun laws its silly. i havent read or heard anything to indicate (and please correct me if im wrong) that he was part of any political organization or organization in general (like the NRA). hell, he was so young he may never have even voted.


my point is we have three tragedies that youre trying to tie into some sort of related right wing movement or idealogy, when that just simply isnt the case. do all three of them share some views with "the right", id say thats 100% true. are these three accurate representations of "the right" absolutely not.


now on the other hand, we have lovelle mixon who killed 4 cops for no reason other than who-the-hell-knows. he was later hailed as a hero by people in oakland. im willing to bet those people are left in ideology. does that mean the left supports killing cops?

and then theres carlos bledsoe aka Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad. now heres someone we know killed for an ideology. he has admitted to hunting down the soldier he killed and has said he wished he could have killed more. he has admitted that hes fighting in a war and that the battleground is here. im not going to make blanket statements about muslims because of him, we all know that 99% of muslims in the US dont support or advocate the killing of soldiers. its a shame too that the tiller killing is getting far more press than killing of Pvt William Long who i would consider an actual casualty of war.

/rant

[trq]

The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites, are you just waking up to this? Regardless people like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant.

It just saddens me that the people I though of as progressive are starting to act like the arrogant boobs in charge during the reign of Bush Jr.

People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans.

If your point is that guns should/will be taken away from everyone because three insane people used a gun to create a tragedy, then IMO you don't have much of a point. I feel foolish even posting because I suspect this is a joke thread, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway.

Er ... what? I didn't say anything about guns.

However, I *did* say: live by the sword, die by the sword (metaphorically). Conservatives don't get to redefine "terrorism" based on the political leanings, color, or religion of the person doing the terrorizing. By the standards they've been using for eight years, these guys are terrorists. Shit, that's not even controversial. You know that Department of Homeland Security report that Bush commissioned (that the Righties like to credit/blame Obama with)? The one about right-wing extremism being on the rise? This is what it was referring to.

That's all. You're quoting/picking a fight with the wrong dude.

Those people do definitely tend to be Republicans, but you can't say that Republicans tend to be those people

This is probably the right way of looking at it, IMO.

And yet you ignore the fact that Von Brunn has entire blogs dedicated to railing against fox news and the free market system. What a great conservative!

Uh ... because they're not conservative enough and run by Jews.

There you are. A liberal murdering a conservative.

Where does it say he was a liberal? He was a former skinhead and missionary from a deeply religious family, who was mad because he was kicked out of the missionary program. I'm not getting "secular humanist" from that.

[Msut77]

Did you even read my posts?

To be honest I stopped reading after the link claiming liberals murdered conservatives with the evidence being a devil found on some driftwood.

There you are. A liberal murdering a conservative.

Christian is not a political affiliation in either case. So no, words cannot express how wrong you are.

The civil rights murders of the 60's were done by the KKK. If you think the KKK is a typical conservative organization

Then? Maybe.

The point was (since you really must be that clueless) that the crimes were not committed by crazy people.

[elprincipe]

Myke, this thread is beneath you, especially to label these wackos as Republicans. I don't like it when right-wing folks label left-wing extremists as Democrats, or call Democrats supporters of terrorism, either. What a crock.

And it's obviously extremely offensive as someone who is pro-life to be told that I am "thrilled" that someone was murdered, even if it was literally one of the worst people in the world. You do know what pro-life means, right? To be against murder? Sure, I will freely admit to being happy the clinic is closed. After all, that means no more babies will be murdered there. But a murder is a murder, and Roeder is no better than Tiller was: a murderer, the lowest of the low in society. Lock him up and throw away the key.

[mykevermin]

I know that pro-life is not a correct term for anyone.

It's a frame for an argument.

Nobody is pro-life, just like nobody is pro-abortion (i.e., supporting the legality of something doesn't mean that people think it's great that it's used).

You're no pro-life, you're anti-abortion.

[elprincipe]

^^ semantics. Yes, in modern usage, pro-life and anti-abortion are used almost interchangably. We can get into why positions are called the way they are as regards abortion, but I would rather not waste the time.

Suffice to say you have gone too far in this thread. I also wonder if this is not just about the same as reposting Krugman's latest article here, in which he repeats the same ridiculous accusations.

[mykevermin]

Haven't seen that column, but there must be a reason I like Krugman so much.

If you think it's "too far," fine. Be that way. But I guarantee you that I will play the "I told you so" card the next time a right-winger decides to kill someone (or many someones) as a means of protest.

[UncleBob]

What will you say when another "left-winger" does the same?

[mykevermin]

show me the left-wingers from the past three months.

what's 'left-wing' about a muslim killing?

[UncleBob]

Surprise, you completely avoided the question.

As to your answer of "left wing" killers of the past three months, I do apologize, but I cannot come up with any high profile results for your inquiry. I do not take any kind of pleasure from crazy people going on murdering sprees - as such, I don't create lists and notes about the details of what happened in an attempt to glorify my political view points on gaming forums.

[mykevermin]

how delectably fucking noble of you.

you must be a saint.

in lieu of sanctimony, I'm going drinking. later days.

[camoor]

Activists? More like Democrats AMIRITE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWVyJ-YG3ew

[jputahraptor]

Surprise, you completely avoided the question.

As to your answer of "left wing" killers of the past three months, I do apologize, but I cannot come up with any high profile results for your inquiry. I do not take any kind of pleasure from crazy people going on murdering sprees - as such, I don't create lists and notes about the details of what happened in an attempt to glorify my political view points on gaming forums.

I don't know you, but I like you! There is no point to this thread at all, I see no evidence that either of these 3 people were Republicans or had any vandetta against liberals, just maybe their viewpoints. People have lost their jobs under every president and every now and then one goes off the handle, abortion doctors have been killed before. If you can't connect the dots and link it to coming from someone in the Republican party, or give me a specific line where Rush and Hannity told these men to do this then shut the hell up, this is theory and opinion, so don't parade around with your political hate. Labeling a whole political party, almost half the country makes you, the OP an otherwise intelligen person, sound like a complete dumbass. These 3 men were psychos but to link them, rather poorly, or should I say, not really at all, to Republicans is just another bitch-a-thon post, we get it already, CAG is overwhelmingly liberal, you guys won the election, you can stop bitching now, ok?

[mykevermin]

Do tell me; what was the original version of that painting you have in your signature?

Care to link to it for us? This thread is as good a place as any.

[mykevermin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?em

Frank Rich, like Krugman, sees what you all refuse to. There are consequences to saying things like Obama "pals around with terrorists," and suggesting that we're headed towards a nazi/socialist/totalitarian government the way Beck does.

That honeymoon, if it was one, is over. Conservatives have legitimate ideological beefs with Obama, rightly expressed in sharp language. But the invective in some quarters has unmistakably amped up. The writer Camille Paglia, a political independent and confessed talk-radio fan, detected a shift toward paranoia in the air waves by mid-May. When “thetone darkens toward a rhetoric of purgation and annihilation,” she observed in Salon, “there is reason for alarm.” She cited a “joke” repeated by a Rush Limbaugh fill-in host, a talk-radio jock from Dallas of all places, about how “any U.S. soldier” who found himself with only two bullets in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden would use both shots to assassinate Pelosi and then strangle Reid and bin Laden.

This homicide-saturated vituperation is endemic among mini-Limbaughs. Glenn Beck has dipped into O’Reilly’s Holocaust analogies to liken Obama’s policy on stem-cell research to the eugenics that led to “the final solution” and the quest for “a master race.” After James von Brunn’s rampage at the Holocaust museum, Beck rushed onto Fox News to describe the Obama-hating killer as a “lone gunman nutjob.” Yet in the same show Beck also said von Brunn was a symptom that “the pot in America is boiling,” as if Beck himself were not the boiling pot cheering the kettle on.

Some of you may think this is parody, or think this is funny - but here's the thing. Many, many people don't listen to Limbaugh for his political wit, but for his analytical mind. And if they're the kind of person who doesn't believe Obama is a legit American citizen and they're clamoring for his birth certificate - how can we be so confident that their cognitive abilities let them discern this bit as an attempt at humor?

Rich also adeptly shows how Beck is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Beck, like many of you, plays the "Von Brunn was a lone nutjob" card - at the same time that he plays the "people are outraged at the government and 'boiling over'" card. And you people fall for it, attacking me for suggesting that fearmongering and paranoia have consequences.

[mykevermin]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/

More absurdity. Now, if you're like me, you know that the Washington Times, as a paper, has a less credible history and more overt bias than even Fox News - but chances are you don't know that. Maybe this op-ed will open your eyes?

[elprincipe]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?em

Frank Rich, like Krugman, sees what you all refuse to. There are consequences to saying things like Obama "pals around with terrorists," and suggesting that we're headed towards a nazi/socialist/totalitarian government the way Beck does.



Some of you may think this is parody, or think this is funny - but here's the thing. Many, many people don't listen to Limbaugh for his political wit, but for his analytical mind. And if they're the kind of person who doesn't believe Obama is a legit American citizen and they're clamoring for his birth certificate - how can we be so confident that their cognitive abilities let them discern this bit as an attempt at humor?

Rich also adeptly shows how Beck is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Beck, like many of you, plays the "Von Brunn was a lone nutjob" card - at the same time that he plays the "people are outraged at the government and 'boiling over'" card. And you people fall for it, attacking me for suggesting that fearmongering and paranoia have consequences.

I saw that Rich article too. I disagree with him as well. It's just not a vast right-wing conspiracy that is behind people like von Brunn (who thought Bush knew about 9/11 and had the Weekly Standard on his hit list). I don't think that left-wing Democrats, who have stirred anti-military sentiment on college campuses among other places, are responsible for attacks against military recruiters or the plot against Fort Dix, for example, either. There was plenty of hate for Bush, as I'm sure you'll not soon forget, as well...and a lot of sentiment that because of his perceived dishonesty with respect to Iraq that thousands of people have died. Yet only the far-right folks would blame Democrats for violence resulting from that.

[Capitalizt]

Activists? More like Democrats AMIRITE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWVyJ-YG3ew

oh.....my.......god.

[mykevermin]

I saw that Rich article too. I disagree with him as well. It's just not a vast right-wing conspiracy that is behind people like von Brunn (who thought Bush knew about 9/11 and had the Weekly Standard on his hit list). I don't think that left-wing Democrats, who have stirred anti-military sentiment on college campuses among other places, are responsible for attacks against military recruiters or the plot against Fort Dix, for example, either. There was plenty of hate for Bush, as I'm sure you'll not soon forget, as well...and a lot of sentiment that because of his perceived dishonesty with respect to Iraq that thousands of people have died. Yet only the far-right folks would blame Democrats for violence resulting from that.

Because names and faces who are everyday elements of the mainstream media, watched by millions, are comparable to...what, exactly? College protestors?

What a weak comparison. I'm not talking about someone with limited access to people, or with limited influence. I (and Krugman, and Rich) are talking about faces and persons on the radio, on Fox...the O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Hannitys, and Becks (among others). People who talking about these topics from these frames every day, and who influence millions of people.

[depascal22]

Did you even read my posts?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
There you are. A liberal murdering a conservative. Msut's conclusion: Liberals are peaceful and rational.
Now, when a conservative murders a liberal. Msut's conclusion: Conservatives are dangerous killers, and we should ban all guns.

The civil rights murders of the 60's were done by the KKK. If you think the KKK is a typical conservative organization, then I guess the Weathermen, Socialist Worker's Party and the Symbionese Liberation Army are typical liberal organizations.

First of all, the guy grew up in Chritian household so it looks like Christian on Christian crime. Don't see where you get him being a liberal from.

Please stop equating the Weathermen, SWP or the SLA with the KKK. Those groups operated for a couple years and are no longer active while the KKK has been denying civil rights for over a century and is still kicking.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0209/p02s02-ussc.html

[mykevermin]

He was also thrown out of the missionary school.

There's a massive chasm in logic needed to jump from that article to defining him as liberal.

[elprincipe]

Because names and faces who are everyday elements of the mainstream media, watched by millions, are comparable to...what, exactly? College protestors?

What a weak comparison. I'm not talking about someone with limited access to people, or with limited influence. I (and Krugman, and Rich) are talking about faces and persons on the radio, on Fox...the O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Hannitys, and Becks (among others). People who talking about these topics from these frames every day, and who influence millions of people.

Obviously nobody in the mainstream media stoked rabid anti-Bush/neocon hatred. What a silly thing to think!

[camoor]

Obviously nobody in the mainstream media stoked rabid anti-Bush/neocon hatred. What a silly thing to think!

Yeah, with respect to the Iraq war the media was providing critical commentary from day one. Course, it doesn't hurt that the Dubya White House invited criticism from hard-hitting journalists like Jeff Gannon.

[depascal22]

Yeah, with respect to the Iraq war the media was providing critical commentary from day one. Course, it doesn't hurt that the Dubya White House invited criticism from hard-hitting journalists like Jeff Gannon.

You must not have been watching the same news coverage. EVERY major media outlet supported the war until at least a year into it. It wasn't until everyone figured out there weren't any WMD's that you started to see coverage shift. I guess it's easier to just say that liberal media just slants everything to fit a liberal point of view.

Hell, it's even funny that liberals weren't giving Bush half as much shit (before 9/11) as the talk radio guys have and are giving Obama. I heard alot of praise towards Bush when he picked his cabinet because it was filled with seasoned political operators from all walks of life. I rejoiced in his pick of Colin Powell as the Sec. State. I looked at the picks and thought that this was a man that actually gave a damn about diversity instead of pretending to let minorities have a say like most of you current conservatives.

[camoor]

You must not have been watching the same news coverage. EVERY major media outlet supported the war until at least a year into it. It wasn't until everyone figured out there weren't any WMD's that you started to see coverage shift. I guess it's easier to just say that liberal media just slants everything to fit a liberal point of view.

Hell, it's even funny that liberals weren't giving Bush half as much shit (before 9/11) as the talk radio guys have and are giving Obama. I heard alot of praise towards Bush when he picked his cabinet because it was filled with seasoned political operators from all walks of life. I rejoiced in his pick of Colin Powell as the Sec. State. I looked at the picks and thought that this was a man that actually gave a damn about diversity instead of pretending to let minorities have a say like most of you current conservatives.

I agree - I guess you couldn't see me winking over the internets :D.

Me agreeing with holier-then-thou Elprincipe should have been enough to set the sarcasm alerts blaring. In the end though I thought Jeff Gannon would give it away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

[depascal22]

I agree - I guess you couldn't see me winking over the internets :D.

Me agreeing with holier-then-thou Elprincipe should have been enough to set the sarcasm alerts blaring. In the end though I thought Jeff Gannon would give it away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

My bad. My internet sarcasm meter has been way off the last couple months. :lol:

[bmulligan]

You must not have been watching the same news coverage. EVERY major media outlet supported the war until at least a year into it. It wasn't until everyone figured out there weren't any WMD's that you started to see coverage shift. I guess it's easier to just say that liberal media just slants everything to fit a liberal point of view.

Hell, it's even funny that liberals weren't giving Bush half as much shit (before 9/11) as the talk radio guys have and are giving Obama. I heard alot of praise towards Bush when he picked his cabinet because it was filled with seasoned political operators from all walks of life. I rejoiced in his pick of Colin Powell as the Sec. State. I looked at the picks and thought that this was a man that actually gave a damn about diversity instead of pretending to let minorities have a say like most of you current conservatives.


Sorry, but when the hell does believing in diversity have anything to do with making a coherent, rational decision, or become a valid qualification for a job that requires such? You think that in order to be legitimate people have to be or be in a group that's diverse? That's a more warped pov than I've ever heard from you before.

Knowing right from wrong or good from bad has not one iota to do with ethnic diversity. It has everything to do with moral character. Regardless of one's color or origin, there are truths that must be upheld that transcend race.

I could give two shits if Obama's cabinet were from the donkey fucker race. As long as they believe in the constitution and individual rights they're okay with me. You "rejoiced" because Bush put a black man as Sec of State and fourth in line for the presidency? That's seriously knucking futz - AND racist.

[Msut77]

Sorry, but when the hell does believing in diversity have anything to do with making a coherent, rational decision, or become a valid qualification for a job that requires such? You think that in order to be legitimate people have to be or be in a group that's diverse?

I think the decision being bandied about as an example is the dredd scott case.

Knowing right from wrong or good from bad has not one iota to do with ethnic diversity. It has everything to do with moral character. Regardless of one's color or origin, there are truths that must be upheld that transcend race.

Even only speaking as Americans. A few hundred years of history shows you to be wrong.

Reagan supported Apartheid, did his moral character transcend race?

[depascal22]

bmull, if you read what I wrote, I said that they were seasoned political operatives from all walks of life. Many of them were white but he brought in Condoleeza (even though I don't like her) and Powell (a man I respect and admire). Bush could've toed the Republican line that minorities don't matter because they didn't need them but he welcomed all people in regardless of race. That's my point.

Diversity doesn't legitmize them but the Cabinet's legitmacy was ENHANCED by it's diversity. America should be governed by the people not some old white dudes that have never ventured to the South Bronx.

As much as you say that we should transcend gender, you've been the biggest opponent of every social program that has tried to level the playing field.