Iran election hearsay...

[steveinneed]

Rioting has broken out in Iran over "stolen" election. My personal thoughts are the election was no doubt rigged....how did Ahmadinejad get 65% of the vote?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/2009613172130303995.html

[MERK3D_U]

As long as the new president is not Ahmadinejad then i'm happy(for them). Seriously, a president who claims the holocaust never exsisted should not be even let near any positions of office. Oh bias >.<

[JolietJake]

Well Ahmadinejad won, what a surprise.

[homeland]

At first I jumped quickly to thinking "oh the gov't pulled a fast one, who would seriously vote for Ahmadinejad"? But than my anger evaporated when I realized we voted for Bush twice.

[mykevermin]

We voted for Bush once - the Supreme Court voted for Bush in 2000.

Our elections are corrupt as all hell, so to think that this is something that only permeates Iranian elections is willfully naive.

[Koggit]

nothing important will change so long as this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei) pulls the strings, regardless of president, so it really doesn't make a difference..


if you read just one thing about Ali Khamenei read this quote from his wiki:
In his speeches Khamenei consistently dwells on familiar themes of the 1979 revolution: the importance of justice, independence, self-sufficiency, and Islam; the need for resolute opposition to Israel and United States.[16] Dealing with the presidents who have served during his reign, Khamenei has successfully scuttled President Rafansjani's attempts to find a modus vivendi with the United States, President Khatami's aspirations for a more democratic Islamic state, and President Ahmadinejad's desire for confrontation.[16]

[crunchb3rry]

America should covertly provide the rioters with rocks and empty bottles to prolong the riot and hope it escalates into a coup.

[Reality's Fringe]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousavi1388/

[speedracer]

Is there any real data that proves this election was stolen? I've seen a ton of anecdotal, but nothing concrete. What's the evidence that's tipping everyone's opinion? I'm just curious.

[KingBroly]

I've seen numbers, but not from a source I'd consider reliable.

[speedracer]

Me neither. I have this instinctual belief that this is true, but I also have this nagging feeling that I'm also hearing what I want to.

[KingBroly]

I don't believe the numbers I've seen are true, but then again Iran seems to put on a very good face about how popular he is.

[Quillion]

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-40343320090615

Not sure about the poll's accuracy, but it appears that there is some support for Ahmadinejad.

[KingBroly]

If it was taken 3 weeks before the election I wonder why we're just now hearing about it.

[Quillion]

Probably because this wasn't really news until the election and subsequent rioting. How many polls did you hear about leading up to the recent EU elections?

[GuilewasNK]

We voted for Bush once - the Supreme Court voted for Bush in 2000.

Our elections are corrupt as all hell, so to think that this is something that only permeates Iranian elections is willfully naive.

I understand what you are saying, but there is no way our corruption even comes close to that of Iran. If it was, Obama wouldn't have stood a chance to be elected. At least there is a chance for change in the US.

Speedracer, the fact that there was no transparency and all attempts to cover the voting process was denied is proof enough that there are irregularities.

Like Bush or not, his axis of evil speech, while sprinkled with hyperbole, wasn't far off from reality it seems.

[steveinneed]

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-40343320090615

Not sure about the poll's accuracy, but it appears that there is some support for Ahmadinejad.

Keep in mind there were four candidates running.

[perdition(troy]

Me neither. I have this instinctual belief that this is true, but I also have this nagging feeling that I'm also hearing what I want to.

:lol::lol:

[Liquid 2]

http://twitter.com/change_for_Iran

[evanft]

Apparently there was a rally with 1-2 million people in Tehran today.

[Ikohn4ever]

i just dont like that the results came out so quickly, especially since they are all hand counted. Also the the other guy getting most of the other votes lost his area, which is pretty much a sign something is fishy

[speedracer]

Speedracer, the fact that there was no transparency and all attempts to cover the voting process was denied is proof enough that there are irregularities.
Uh, I don't mean to be all moonbat/wingnut/whatever, but the fact that they even have a paper trail makes their elect infinitely more transparent and more importantly, able to be audited. Sure, maybe it's bullshit and they stuffed the box but at least there's something to actually verify.

I mean shit, dude. I don't see anything shadier than what Blackwell did. I think I read somewhere that most Europeans thought the 04 election was stolen (and let's not even start on 00). Does that mean it was?

I think something is fucked up here. I don't know enough about the people of Iran to know how far of a deviation we're talking about. I'm also not sure if this situation coming about since is the product of genuine resistance or astroturfing bullshit. It seems very plausible to me that this is the result of actions put in motion by Bush. I don't mean that as a slam on Bush, I just think it's probable that the Americans were sowing the seeds that bear fruit that looks just like this. This is a pretty textbook example of how to instigate a color revolution.

Or maybe Ahmedinajad and the mullahs are just that fucking stupid. Who knows.

[steveinneed]

Uh, I don't mean to be all moonbat/wingnut/whatever, but the fact that they even have a paper trail makes their elect infinitely more transparent and more importantly, able to be audited. Sure, maybe it's bullshit and they stuffed the box but at least there's something to actually verify.

I mean shit, dude. I don't see anything shadier than what Blackwell did. I think I read somewhere that most Europeans thought the 04 election was stolen (and let's not even start on 00). Does that mean it was?

I think something is fucked up here. I don't know enough about the people of Iran to know how far of a deviation we're talking about. I'm also not sure if this situation coming about since is the product of genuine resistance or astroturfing bullshit. It seems very plausible to me that this is the result of actions put in motion by Bush. I don't mean that as a slam on Bush, I just think it's probable that the Americans were sowing the seeds that bear fruit that looks just like this. This is a pretty textbook example of how to instigate a color revolution.

Or maybe Ahmedinajad and the mullahs are just that fucking stupid. Who knows.


The latter is much simpler and easier to accept.

[speedracer]

The latter is much simpler and easier to accept.
But how much easier? I agree with you but like I said before, I wonder is it really *that* much easier to accept, or if I'm just hearing what I want to? Then again, I can't imagine how this could possibly be made right.

Maybe they should take it to their Supreme Court. Hardy har har.

[depascal22]

All foreign journalists have been forced to stay in their offices or hotel rooms. The Iranian government said it was because of biased coverage of the election and the protests.

I find it encouraging that the Iranian people have taken to the streets in protest even though seven died yesterday. All we could do was egg the Presidential limousine during Bush's first inauguration. I just wish they would do something drastic to get rid of the Ayatollahs that really run the country but, then again, it's their country.

[KingBroly]

i just dont like that the results came out so quickly, especially since they are all hand counted. Also the the other guy getting most of the other votes lost his area, which is pretty much a sign something is fishy

Yeah, pretty fishy stuff is going on. I also heard that the majority of the ballots have already been destroyed, so a recount would be useless. Though I doubt they'll recount it and just say 'oh, our guy only won with 65% of the vote, not 69%'.

[Liquid 2]

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_continued_election_turmo.html

[mykevermin]

Is anyone kind of embarrassed that Iran seems to be "doing democracy" better than the US?

Not in terms of government, mind, you. Of course not. But the people see trouble, and they're getting off of their blogs and petitiononlines and into the motherfucking streets to demand their voice.

Meanwhile, we get bitter (no matter our side) and blog about it while sipping on a latte.

[homeland]

Is anyone kind of embarrassed that Iran seems to be "doing democracy" better than the US?

Not in terms of government, mind, you. Of course not. But the people see trouble, and they're getting off of their blogs and petitiononlines and into the motherfucking streets to demand their voice.

Meanwhile, we get bitter (no matter our side) and blog about it while sipping on a latte.

I think the average age of each respective country plays a big difference. Iran =27 U.S = 37.

Also Americans just suck at protesting. I quickly learned what it really means to protest and stand up for your rights when I lived in Italy and even more so when I married a French woman. Don't know about all of Europe but French and Italians know how to voice their opinions on the streets.

[Zoglog]

All I know is that here in westwood California there have been retarded protests from the Iranians here causing ruckus all through the night, honking their horns, and disturbing the neighborhood for 5 days straight. Meanwhile it's obvious protesting here will do absolutely nothing. If they felt so passionately maybe they should go back to Iran and protest there... Oh right it's too dangerous to do anything that might mean something......................

[mykevermin]

Wow. Someone's an asshole.

[Zoglog]

Wow. Someone's an asshole.

yeah, maybe the douchebag on a scooter honking his horn while riding back and forth down residential roads @ 11PM w/ his friend on the rear waving the Iranian flag..... real fucking productive.

[depascal22]

Maybe they're relatives of the Shah? Maybe half of their family disappeared in the late 70s? Maybe most of the males in the family got gassed by Saddam in the 80s? Alot of Iranians had it tough and are lucky to be here.

Their protest don't mean anything but let them have one or two days to vent their frustration. At least it's a dude on a scooter. We burned the bitch down after Rodney King.

[perdition(troy]

Now thats something to be proud of. Destroying property to try to make a point. MLK would be so proud.

[depascal22]

Never said I was proud of it, dick. Just making a point that a dude on a scooter is not that big of a deal compared to some of the real stuff that's gone down in LA's history.

[perdition(troy]

It's Troy, not dick. And it is a big deal to him, and your comparisons don't really have anything to do with each other. Comparing riots that took place because of something that happened in the city to some people protesting because of the results of a foreign election doesn't make much sense.

And the way you stated "we burned the bitch down" shows you don't really feel any remorse or embarrassment to the Rodney king situation.

[depascal22]

They were both forms of protest that went on in the city.

I used burned that bitch down because it's slang term still used in the hood for what went down. The Rodney King riots were one group of people that got so pissed they went crazy and nearly destroyed a city.

As far as I can see, a couple dudes on scooters aren't that bad. Just giving a brother some perspective as to wha happens when Los Angelinos get really pissed.

And yeah, you are a dick for pretending to know what MLK would feel about an internet statement.

I also didn't see the point of Europeans rioting either but no one went crazy on that statement. At least my riots happened in the same city that dude was talking about and were about the same kind of outrage that happens when people feel like they have no power.

[homeland]

Well looks like the Supreme Leader is calling the protesters bluff and even banned Saturday's planned rally. Since the protesters aren't getting the revote they wanted, I'm curious whats next. It looks like the Iranian gov't is ready to end this, either through fear or force.

[depascal22]

It doesn't look good either way. A revote would've been nice but do you think Mousavi ever had a chance to win?

[Zoglog]

Their protest don't mean anything but let them have one or two days to vent their frustration.

Oh I agree, One or Two days of stupidity is fine (happened all the time w/ Anti-bush protesters), but as I stated above, they've been at it for 5 days in a row and far more noisy than any other protesters thusfar.

And severity aside, any sort of MLK protesting has far more significance here since it deals directly w/ our country.

[Koggit]

RT from Iran: Mousavi's offices are trashed, Mousavi's staff in police custody, Mousavi is missing. #iranelection #gr88 #clarification

Confirmed: Mousavi staff arrested. Mousavi silenced (not sure whether that means arrested, threatened, or just in hiding)

they're idiots if they think removing mousavi is gonna do anything other than fuel the fire

Well looks like the Supreme Leader is calling the protesters bluff and even banned Saturday's planned rally. Since the protesters aren't getting the revote they wanted, I'm curious whats next. It looks like the Iranian gov't is ready to end this, either through fear or force.
the protesters bluff? wtf are you talking about?

and this isn't about any sort of recount or revote any more, this is about an entire nation rebelling against oppression and demanding freedom -- mousavi was a step toward freedom, Khamenei saw it and squashed it, now his entire nation is standing in the face of oppression and saying they will not accept it

also, the iranian government is most certainly not capable of ending this through force.. you either underestimate the sheer numbers or overestimate the govt's ability, i guarantee you the iranian govt is scared shitless right now

[mykevermin]

^ alternately, you could falsely assume that iranians are as lazy and easily placated as americans, so they won't fight back.

EDIT: From 4 minutes ago: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i87d0H8YcA47_eP06DJ3aBMb3BCwD98U0CCO2

Iran's opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi is not under arrest, but cannot talk with journalists, take phone calls or stand at a microphone at his rallies, his spokesman said Friday from Paris.

[Koggit]

i really believe americans would behave similarly, if demographics were similar (overwhelming youth) and we were confronted with similar circumstances

i know damn well if i lived in iran i'd be protesting, and i feel as though most ppl i know my age would as well.. and considering how many iranians are my age..

i definitely don't think this sort of uprising could happen anywhere else in the world, though.

[Blackout]

i really believe americans would behave similarly, if demographics were similar (overwhelming youth) and we were confronted with similar circumstances
.

The youth here are too busy fucking each other and getting drunk to care about anything.