>_< Bush is sabotaging himself the more he talks...

[Forest Mercenary]

Lol, and funny how he can't even pronounce words correctly and he keeps stumbling; Cheney should have written a better speech for him. I'm still for Bush though, just man, he's not very smart.

[Forest Mercenary]

Also, are they going to re-air it right afterwards? Because I started late, and it's waaaaaay too late to Tivo now...

[WildWop]

Dont bother. All you have to do is listen to one answer and you get the gist of what they said for the whole night. In a competition between Bush and Kerry, America lost, and it lost badly.

I swear I was watching two old female parrots up there. One thing to say, and they won't let anything go.

[CheapyD]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

[helava]

Wow. Bush shot himself right in the face tonight. Kerry walked *all over* him. Unbelievable. I was hoping for a good performance, but Bush was almost totally, totally incoherent for the entire debate. It was like he was drunk, or something.

seppo

[Quackzilla]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

Quoted for truth.

[E-Z-B]

That was funny when Bush said something along the lines of "our priority was going after Saddam Hussein ....... ,I mean, Osama Bin Laden".

So the truth comes out.

[Pylis]

Don't get me wrong, Bush was nervous, but I'd like to see how any of us would do live, in front of the entire world, in one of the most important debates in history.

[Scrubking]

"Saddam wasn't a threat... Saddam was a threat"

Kerry can't even contain the flopping during a debate.

[johnnyoski]

Don't get me wrong, Bush was nervous, but I'd like to see how any of us would do live, in front of the entire world, in one of the most important debates in history.

Yeah, but it's his job to be in front of the world and represent our country.

[Pylis]

Well, again, Bush didn't do a bad job, either. His performance was still respectable.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Don't get me wrong, Bush was nervous, but I'd like to see how any of us would do live, in front of the entire world, in one of the most important debates in history.

Yeah, but it's his job to be in front of the world and represent our country.

Not in a debate setting though, I think lots of people forget it's a lot easier to be the challenger in a debate than an incumbant. One has to defend actions that've already taken place, while the other attacks said actions and only theorizes with his/her own plans. It's kind of like me coming into your work and telling your boss how I think I can do the job better than you but you get 30-60 seconds to explain why I'd be wrong or right.

[johnnyoski]

Don't get me wrong, Bush was nervous, but I'd like to see how any of us would do live, in front of the entire world, in one of the most important debates in history.

Yeah, but it's his job to be in front of the world and represent our country.

Not in a debate setting though, I think lots of people forget it's a lot easier to be the challenger in a debate than an incumbant. One has to defend actions that've already taken place, while the other attacks said actions and only theorizes with his/her own plans. It's kind of like me coming into your work and telling your boss how I think I can do the job better than you but you get 30-60 seconds to explain why I'd be wrong or right.

I disagree with your analogy.
I think Kerry came into the debate with more to lose and came out fine.

[Duo_Maxwell]

I never said anything about who had the most to lose did I? If it came off that way it isn't what I meant so I guess it wasn't a great analogy. I was just saying that the challenger typically has it easier than the incumbent.

[buster90]

Bush looked like an idiot during the entire debate. The guy was not prepared at all and man COnan is right this guy isn't smart at all.

BTW, Bush tried to drink out of an empty glass of water!! LOL...can he be dumber than a dog?

[Pylis]

Yeah, the analogy wasn't great, but Duo_Maxwell's point is perfectly valid.

[Pylis]

BTW, Bush tried to drink out of an empty glass of water!! LOL...can he be dumber than a dog?

You should go back and relook at that. That wasn't driking water, it was water to help keep his mouth from becoming dry during the debate. And besides, there WAS water in it, the glass just wasn't full. I know you must think you're terribly clever because you can make astute observations like, "OMG THERES NO WATER IN IT BUSH IS RETARDED LOL!!!!111", but in reality this is an idiotic thing to attack somebody over.

[Drocket]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

What, you seriously can't think of anything worse to be than dumb? Its not like Kerry is an ideal canidate: although not to the extreme that the Bush campain has tried to paint him, Kerry is without a doubt a rather indecisive person who spends far too much time worrying about what others will think of his position and choices. Probably worse than that, though, is that he's almost completely incapable of articulating how and why he reaches the decisions that he does make (and even WORSE, despite being mostly inarticulate, he's also extremely verbose, to the point of being an outright Chatty Cathy.)

Without a doubt, this election is a choice between bad and worse, and although I definitely have my own opinion on who is 'Mr. Worse', I really can't fault anyone too much for coming to a different decision (Ok, except PAD, because he's an idiot :P) Ah, the joys of a two party system...

[judyjudyjudy]

The weirdest pronunciation for me tonight was "peninchula" (peninsula).

[buster90]

BTW, Bush tried to drink out of an empty glass of water!! LOL...can he be dumber than a dog?

You should go back and relook at that. That wasn't driking water, it was water to help keep his mouth from becoming dry during the debate. And besides, there WAS water in it, the glass just wasn't full. I know you must think you're terribly clever because you can make astute observations like, "OMG THERES NO WATER IN IT BUSH IS RETARDED LOL!!!!111", but in reality this is an idiotic thing to attack somebody over.


Kerry didn't take one glass or sip or water during the entire debate. Bush drank almost 2 glasses of water.

[KingDox]

Actually I think the incumbant has an edge in the debates. The incumbant can talk about his acomplishments and why the other guy isn't fit to replace him. The problem with Bush is there are not that many acomplishments he can talk about.

[Xevious]

Strangely enough, What I am really looking forward to are the Dick Cheney/Edwards debates next tuesday.

That debate is bound to have a high entertainment level. Dont you guys agree??

[dustinttt]

[quote=CheapyD]I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

What, you seriously can't think of anything worse to be than dumb?[quote]

I'd like to have someone smarter than me running this country. It would make me feel a bit more at ease knowing that someone who can analyze the issues and make adjustments to faulty plans that are already in motion was at the helm of this nation. Bush has fucked up royally, and admitted to the nation that he wasn't going to change his ways.

BTW, I have discovered that after watching the debate, two of my friends (one appethetic, the other opposing both candidates) are now Kerry converts. We'll see how things look in 72 hours, but I think this debate did a world of good for Kerry. I would have conceded defeat if Bush did a good job, but he clearly got pwned.

[johnnyoski]

Yeah, the analogy wasn't great, but Duo_Maxwell's point is perfectly valid.

His point is valid under certain circumstances.
If I'm doing great at my job, accomplishing all my goals and objectives, bringing in money for the company and have great working relationships with all my co-workers and vendors it really doesn't matter what anyone comes in and says they can do. That person wouldn't have a chance of taking my spot (unless they work for free).
On the other hand, if there are aspects of my work that my company is unhappy with and I show no signs of trying to improve in those areas then the person would be listened to more seriously and could be a threat to my job.
Now I'm not trying to bash Bush here because regardless of how well or how poorly any President does during his first term there are going to be people that think he falls in the second scenario I presented. But what's important come election day is how many people feel that way compared to how many feel he falls into the first scenario.

[Quackzilla]

Don't get me wrong, Bush was nervous, but I'd like to see how any of us would do live, in front of the entire world, in one of the most important debates in history.

You saw Kerry, didn't you?
He was calm and composed.

[CheapyD]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

What, you seriously can't think of anything worse to be than dumb?

Call me crazy, but I feel a person of lesser intelligence should not be President of the United States.

[E-Z-B]

http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-kerry-leader.jpg

[MrBadExample]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

What, you seriously can't think of anything worse to be than dumb?

Call me crazy, but I feel a person of lesser intelligence should not be President of the United States.

I think we need some sort of Presidential SAT exam in two parts, domestic and foreign. Put the candidates in a room without any coaches (this means you, Cheney) and see who scores the most. Then publish the tests and candidates answers.

[Backlash]

I never said anything about who had the most to lose did I? If it came off that way it isn't what I meant so I guess it wasn't a great analogy. I was just saying that the challenger typically has it easier than the incumbent.

Well, Bush took an interesting line by saying basically "You can't criticize ANYTHING that I have done, or you're sending the wrong message to our troops, our allies, and the terrorists."

That sounds pretty good and is hard to argue against, sort of, even though it's not really true.

[dennis_t]

I never said anything about who had the most to lose did I? If it came off that way it isn't what I meant so I guess it wasn't a great analogy. I was just saying that the challenger typically has it easier than the incumbent.

Well, Bush took an interesting line by saying basically "You can't criticize ANYTHING that I have done, or you're sending the wrong message to our troops, our allies, and the terrorists."

That sounds pretty good and is hard to argue against, sort of, even though it's not really true.

Actually, it's a pretty damned dumb argument, if you think about it. He's basically making himself an Imperial President -- "If I say it or do it, it cannot be wrong." We outlawed kings in this country a couple hundred years ago.

[WildWop]

I never said anything about who had the most to lose did I? If it came off that way it isn't what I meant so I guess it wasn't a great analogy. I was just saying that the challenger typically has it easier than the incumbent.

Well, Bush took an interesting line by saying basically "You can't criticize ANYTHING that I have done, or you're sending the wrong message to our troops, our allies, and the terrorists."

That sounds pretty good and is hard to argue against, sort of, even though it's not really true.

Actually, it's a pretty damned dumb argument, if you think about it. He's basically making himself an Imperial President -- "If I say it or do it, it cannot be wrong." We outlawed kings in this country a couple hundred years ago.

"If I say it or do it, it cannot be wrong so long as I stick to my convictions and beliefs" would be the proper Bush-speak there.

[dennis_t]

I never said anything about who had the most to lose did I? If it came off that way it isn't what I meant so I guess it wasn't a great analogy. I was just saying that the challenger typically has it easier than the incumbent.

Well, Bush took an interesting line by saying basically "You can't criticize ANYTHING that I have done, or you're sending the wrong message to our troops, our allies, and the terrorists."

That sounds pretty good and is hard to argue against, sort of, even though it's not really true.

Actually, it's a pretty damned dumb argument, if you think about it. He's basically making himself an Imperial President -- "If I say it or do it, it cannot be wrong." We outlawed kings in this country a couple hundred years ago.

"If I say it or do it, it cannot be wrong so long as I stick to my convictions and beliefs" would be the proper Bush-speak there.

Conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan nails my feelings about the matter:

Moreover, his fundamental critique of Kerry - that by criticizing the war, he had made himself unworthy to be commander-in-chief - was dumb and border-line offensive. It implies that if you've ever criticized the president's war conduct, you cannot succeed him in office. Huh?
By that logic, the only credible alternative to Bush is someone who has agreed with him every inch of the way. Memo to Bush: we live in a democracy.

http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2004_09_26_dish_archive.html#109660347425071912

[David85]

Bush can't speak, we know this, that is why he didn't want any debates, plus it's not even a debate because all the lame ass rules that went with it.

[Quackzilla]

Bush can't speak, we know this, that is why he didn't want any debates, plus it's not even a debate because all the lame ass rules that went with it.

It turned into an argument in the last 15 minutes. They were breaking all of the rules, and Kerry was owning Buch in a live argument.

The irony is that Bush started it because he refused to wait for his turn to talk.

[David85]

HAHAHA, damn I missed that part, it was sooooooooooooooooooo boring I went to bed.

[poormojo]

Pre-debate I was very worried that Kerry would be dull and, well, Al Gore like. Pedantic, too determined to explain every point of his plans, etc. But he did really well. Every poll agrees, Kerry debated better than Bush.

Before this point, remember, Bush has won every debate he's ever participated in.

Kerry had good things to say. he wasn't afraid to criticize Bush. He seperated the war from the warriors (note: it is possible to be against the war, and still support our troops. It is also possible to be for the war, and to not support our troops by not giving them the tools, intelligence or leadership they need.) scored points with me on Darfur and North Korea.

All in all, I'm very excited about the VP debate and the next two presidential debates. Though I expect Bush to be much more composed and aggressive and not nearly such a pushover next time.

Also, we're 5 weeks away from Super Tuesday: let's see what evil tricks Karl Rove will pull.

[elprincipe]

Lol, and funny how he can't even pronounce words correctly and he keeps stumbling; Cheney should have written a better speech for him. I'm still for Bush though, just man, he's not very smart.

I don't think you can judge intelligence based on someone's public speaking ability. What we do know is that he's not exactly, er, a slick public speaker.

[David85]

I love this "winning" debates thing.

Bush has won all his debates before this.
Kerry also won every debate before this.

So of course one of them had to be a loser, unless you listen to Bill O'Reily because ONE poll out of 100 had 29% of the people think it was a tie.

So about 5 people in one poll out of 100s think it was a tie and that made Bill happy.

I so hate him.

[dennis_t]

Lol, and funny how he can't even pronounce words correctly and he keeps stumbling; Cheney should have written a better speech for him. I'm still for Bush though, just man, he's not very smart.

I don't think you can judge intelligence based on someone's public speaking ability. What we do know is that he's not exactly, er, a slick public speaker.

You can judge intelligence based on a person's ability to think on their feet, however, and what we saw Thursday night was a pretty good mental re-enactment of Bush's seven minutes on 9/11. All he could do was repeat the same talking points over and over, whether they had anything to do with his argument or not: "It's a hard job," "mixed messages," etc.

We also saw him trying to advance the idea of the Imperial Presidency ("If you don't support me, you can't criticize me") and respond to Kerry's damning list of security flaws in the United States with a vague mumble about how it would be paid for. Neither argument was a shining moment for him.

[David85]

BTW, Bush tried to drink out of an empty glass of water!! LOL...can he be dumber than a dog?

You should go back and relook at that. That wasn't driking water, it was water to help keep his mouth from becoming dry during the debate. And besides, there WAS water in it, the glass just wasn't full. I know you must think you're terribly clever because you can make astute observations like, "OMG THERES NO WATER IN IT BUSH IS RETARDED LOL!!!!111", but in reality this is an idiotic thing to attack somebody over.


Kerry didn't take one glass or sip or water during the entire debate. Bush drank almost 2 glasses of water.


So we are going to vote on a president by how much water he drinks?

If I was up there they might as well just have a faset for me because I would drink tons of water.

[buster90]

BTW, Bush tried to drink out of an empty glass of water!! LOL...can he be dumber than a dog?

You should go back and relook at that. That wasn't driking water, it was water to help keep his mouth from becoming dry during the debate. And besides, there WAS water in it, the glass just wasn't full. I know you must think you're terribly clever because you can make astute observations like, "OMG THERES NO WATER IN IT BUSH IS RETARDED LOL!!!!111", but in reality this is an idiotic thing to attack somebody over.


Kerry didn't take one glass or sip or water during the entire debate. Bush drank almost 2 glasses of water.


So we are going to vote on a president by how much water he drinks?

If I was up there they might as well just have a faset for me because I would drink tons of water.

The water shows how nervous Bush was. Bush was unprepared, had no good plans and knows he made nothing but mistakes while as president. Kerry know he didn't have much of an argument.

[Drocket]

The water shows how nervous Bush was. Bush was unprepared, had no good plans and knows he made nothing but mistakes while as president. Kerry know he didn't have much of an argument.

Or perhaps he just had hotdogs for supper.

[bignick]

The water shows how nervous Bush was. Bush was unprepared, had no good plans and knows he made nothing but mistakes while as president. Kerry know he didn't have much of an argument.

Or perhaps he just had hotdogs for supper.


Or he was trying to get the taste of Mrs. Kerry out of his mouth.

[David85]

The water shows how nervous Bush was. Bush was unprepared, had no good plans and knows he made nothing but mistakes while as president. Kerry know he didn't have much of an argument.

Or perhaps he just had hotdogs for supper.


Or he was trying to get the taste of Mrs. Kerry out of his mouth.


Hahahaha

[Duo_Maxwell]

The water shows how nervous Bush was. Bush was unprepared, had no good plans and knows he made nothing but mistakes while as president. Kerry know he didn't have much of an argument.

Don't be a fool, the water shows nothing. All it shows is that he was thirsty, that happens when people speak in public for extended periods of time. Your point maybe valid if he was drinking water to stall during his turn but I'm pretty sure that never happened. I admit I dunno too much about what's taboo in a debate as the last one I was in was freshman year about 2 &amp; 1/2 years ago (which had nothing to do with politics btw) and I hardly make a career out of it. BTW I did drink a 20 oz. bottle of water during that debate and I was on a team of 2 plus the whole thing was only 45 mins. long, but we apparently were quite prepared as other people even said so afterwards. Drinking water maybe taboo, I dunno as I didn't care that much then because I was thirsty, but I do know that all of Kerry's smiling and nodding during Bush's points would be considered just as taboo in a formal debate. My pint is the water means jac crap and if you think it does then you can't call Bush an idiot because you probably aren't that bright either.

[Forest Mercenary]

To clarify my first post; Yes, I feel Bush is the dumber canidate of the two; it doesn't take much to beat him in that department, but I just plain disagree with Kerry and his views/priorities, and Nader just plain doesn't have a chance. Ultimately, it's Bush vs. Kerry, and I choose Bush.

[RedvsBlue]

Well no matter what at least he'll be able to run the lumber company that Kerry claims he owns...

[defender]

I can't imagine why anyone would vote for a man they think is not very smart.

But I would vote for you CheapyD if you ran...

[helava]

RvB - check factcheck.org - Kerry was correct on that claim. Bush *really* didn't know what he was talking about.

seppo