Johns Hopkins student kills apparent burglar with a samurai sword [Mobile/Archive]

GuilewasNK

09-16-2009, 08:52 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/samurai.sword.killing/index.html

CNN) -- A Johns Hopkins University student killed an apparent burglar with a samurai sword after discovering the man in his garage, police said Tuesday.

Baltimore, Maryland, police received a phone call shortly before 1:30 a.m. Tuesday about a suspicious person, and an off-duty officer arrived at the scene with campus security, city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.

When authorities arrived, they heard calls for help and for police, he said. They discovered a suspected burglar with a severed left hand and severe lacerations to his upper body, Guglielmi said.

The suspect died at the scene, he said.

The man had entered a home where several Johns Hopkins (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Johns_Hopkins_University) students lived, Guglielmi said. Four students, one armed with a samurai sword, had confronted the suspect in the garage.

The man "lunged" at the students, and the student with the sword defended himself, severing the man's left hand and cutting his upper body, Guglielmi said.

Police did not release the name of the suspect, who Guglielmi said had a long criminal history, or that of the student.

Police questioned the three witnesses, Guglielmi said, and released them. It was not immediately clear whether all four students lived at the house, he said.

Authorities are determining whether the student will face criminal charges, Guglielmi said.

Burglars had taken two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the students' home Monday, Guglielmi said.

The burglary suspect had been released from prison Saturday, Guglielmi said.

That's different. I guess you don't fuck with a Johns Hopkins student with a samurai sword, eh?

Never been a gun guy myself. I don't have a sword yet, but I do have a dagger. Hope I never have to use it.

I'm going to watch Samurai Champloo and Afro Samurai now. Later.

Sleepkyng

09-16-2009, 08:57 AM

gangster.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 08:58 AM

Never been a gun guy myself. I don't have a sword yet, but I do have a dagger. Hope I never have to use it.

With your reach, you don't need a sword.

Everybody knows this student is probably going to prison unless the attacker was heavily tweaked on drugs.

I could see a slash taking off a hand, but one sword stroke doesn't create several lacerations.

crunchb3rry

09-16-2009, 09:21 AM

Maybe he lunged multiple times.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 09:36 AM

Maybe he lunged multiple times.

"He fell into my ice pick ... 37 times.'

Yeah, the wannabe sammy better hope the burglar was on PCP.

sgs89

09-16-2009, 09:42 AM

Do not mess with a Blue Jay!

(For those unaware, it is the Johns Hopkins Blue Jays.)

Access_Denied

09-16-2009, 09:46 AM

With your reach, you don't need a sword.

Everybody knows this student is probably going to prison unless the attacker was heavily tweaked on drugs.

I could see a slash taking off a hand, but one sword stroke doesn't create several lacerations.

I was thinking the same thing. If the sword was used for self-defense, there wouldn't have been nothing more than a severed hand, not multiple lacerations. Unless this guy was a freaking beast. Maybe a picture would help.

tankass

09-16-2009, 09:48 AM

I dunno about jail time, just because self defence and breaking and entering are pretty good reasons for a anime style slaying. A competend lawyer will get him off with at most some community service, specially since the guy has robbed before and they have witnesses that prove the robber provoked an attack.

Just remember, swords dont kill people, anime fans that think a 50 hit combo is the only way to end confrontation, kill people.

Javery

09-16-2009, 09:49 AM

How fucking sharp was that blade to take off a hand bone and all?

GuilewasNK

09-16-2009, 10:03 AM

I was thinking the same thing. If the sword was used for self-defense, there wouldn't have been nothing more than a severed hand, not multiple lacerations. Unless this guy was a freaking beast. Maybe a picture would help.

I don't know about that. I'd imagine the lacerations may have occurred trying to get the burglar to back off, and the severed hand was the final blow. If drugs were involved, anything is possible.

All I know is the guy wouldn't have died if he hadn't tried to rob someone three days after being released for the same offense. As the facts stand now, I can't fault the homeowner who probably never found himself in a situation like that before. That may change later, but who knows? Hindsight is always 20/20.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 10:21 AM

GuilewasNK

09-16-2009, 10:26 AM

How fucking sharp was that blade to take off a hand bone and all?

Back in the old days, there were samurai swords that could cut through five bodies in a single stroke.

A sword worth a few grand could be high enough quality to cut through the forearm.

Not to mention the wrist is a fairly small joint with small bones and lots of space/cartilage between those wristbones for flexiblity. It wouldn't take much to cut through it if hit in the right spot.

Quillion

09-16-2009, 10:35 AM

Back in the old days, there were samurai swords that could cut through five bodies in a single stroke.

A sword worth a few grand could be high enough quality to cut through the forearm.

I'm not sure I buy the myths and legends about Japanese swords, but I've seen them wielded by a trained user slice through a representations of a thigh and femur without any real resistance. A wrist doesn't really stretch the imagination.

juvo

09-16-2009, 10:46 AM

Am I the only one confused?

"student killed an apparent burglar"
"The suspect died at the scene, he said."
"The burglary suspect had been released from prison Saturday"

Is this bad reporting, or did they hold the dead burglar in jail for four days?

darthbudge

09-16-2009, 10:48 AM

No. The guy who was killed was released from jail on Saturday, three days before his death. In other words, he was a criminal and resumed his criminal activities immediately after getting out of jail.

Poor2More

09-16-2009, 11:02 AM

Halo05

09-16-2009, 11:58 AM

I hope that right after the student hit the guy, the would-be robber stood there in stunned silence for a moment before his hand slid off ala Samurai Shodown.

VICTOLY!

xdl

09-16-2009, 12:24 PM

If you rob enough different people, eventually you will come across the crazy college anime nerd with a samurai sword. Shit happens, don't break into someone's home.

neocisco

09-16-2009, 01:14 PM

I bet it was a Hattori Hanzo sword.

http://www.swordsswords.com/ProductImages/movie_swords/kill_bill_swords/hattori_hanzo_kill_bill_sw-320e-2.jpg

I have one on display (not a Hanzo, of course) but it's not made from tempered steel. My dad has one that is and those can do some serious damage if wielded properly.

lokizz

09-16-2009, 01:49 PM

With your reach, you don't need a sword.

Everybody knows this student is probably going to prison unless the attacker was heavily tweaked on drugs.

I could see a slash taking off a hand, but one sword stroke doesn't create several lacerations.

not to mention there were like 4 of them right? they will say they could have used non lethal force considering the numbers were in their favor unless he guy with the sword was the only one who was up at the time or if the burgalur had a weapon too then it may be ok to have used the sword. i dont feel bad for the burgalur but i do wonder if the students didnt go overboard but then again if he hadnt broken into their home hed still be alive. the guy with the sword at the minimum should get some kind of probation. sucks but in this day and age alot fo times criminals get more rights than victims.

there was this story a while back in tennessee where these 2 guys and a chick were stealing things from a guys trailer so the guy goes out and shoots at them to scare them off he ends up shooting into the truck hitting the woman and killing her and then to find out she was pregnant and wouuldnt you knw it people were mad at him for killing a pregnant woman. nevermind she was with criminals stealing shit that didnt belong to them but because they guy who they were stealing from had priors he went to jail i believe.

Brak

09-16-2009, 02:52 PM

VipFREAK

09-16-2009, 03:01 PM

How fucking sharp was that blade to take off a hand bone and all?

Someone hasn't been watching Deadliest Warrior, Sports Science (or was it Naked Science... ?), or Mythbusters...

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 03:09 PM

not to mention there were like 4 of them right? they will say they could have used non lethal force considering the numbers were in their favor unless he guy with the sword was the only one who was up at the time or if the burgalur had a weapon too then it may be ok to have used the sword. i dont feel bad for the burgalur but i do wonder if the students didnt go overboard but then again if he hadnt broken into their home hed still be alive. the guy with the sword at the minimum should get some kind of probation. sucks but in this day and age alot fo times criminals get more rights than victims.

there was this story a while back in tennessee where these 2 guys and a chick were stealing things from a guys trailer so the guy goes out and shoots at them to scare them off he ends up shooting into the truck hitting the woman and killing her and then to find out she was pregnant and wouuldnt you knw it people were mad at him for killing a pregnant woman. nevermind she was with criminals stealing shit that didnt belong to them but because they guy who they were stealing from had priors he went to jail i believe.

Isn't there a RICO statute in TN? Then, the man killing the unborn child could claim the unborn child was part of the crime.

lionheart4life

09-16-2009, 03:31 PM

There's no way I'd be able to stop after I got one slice in on a robber with a sword either, whether its right or wrong. If I ever had to kill a robber this is how I'd want to do it. Badass story.

Spacepest

09-16-2009, 03:42 PM

What an awesome story. I really do hope the student doesn't have to serve jailtime because of it. As far as I'm concerned, he did society a favor by taking out a repeat burglary offender.

mzbagel

09-16-2009, 03:53 PM

How fucking sharp was that blade to take off a hand bone and all?

You need to watch this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLDVL5FoL2Y&feature=related

NDarkness

09-16-2009, 03:58 PM

The student does not deserve any jail time, fines, or community service. The burglar was scum.

evildeadjedi

09-16-2009, 04:18 PM

Someone hasn't been watching Deadliest Warrior, Sports Science (or was it Naked Science... ?), or Mythbusters...

Exactly! A good sword can do some massive damage! The kid should not serve anytime he defended his home from a robber nuff said.

09-16-2009, 05:49 PM

Hell I'll donate a few bucks to this guys defense fund should he need one.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 05:55 PM

The student does not deserve any jail time, fines, or community service. The burglar was scum.

If the burglar was dismembered and curled into a ball on the floor, would it be OK for the student to continue slashing and stabbing the burglar?

GuilewasNK

09-16-2009, 06:08 PM

If the burglar was dismembered and curled into a ball on the floor, would it be OK for the student to continue slashing and stabbing the burglar?

Legally speaking probably not. Logically speaking, the person is already dead.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-16-2009, 06:30 PM

Legally speaking probably not. Logically speaking, the person is already dead.

From a severed hand? Maybe.

From a severed hand while in the presence of at least one person attending the best medical school in the country? No.

JolietJake

09-16-2009, 06:55 PM

I can't be the only who thought of this.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/samurai-delicatessen/280284/

crunchb3rry

09-16-2009, 07:04 PM

Real men hunt with swords.

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/24d03c76cc9bdac58876b47ad2bf5fa50f0181e0_m.gif

Monsta Mack

09-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Just got out of prison a few days prior to robbing?
Well I guess he got what he deserved.

JolietJake

09-16-2009, 09:53 PM

I just thought of something, wouldn't it be funny if this guy was in med school studying to become a surgeon?

johnnypark

09-16-2009, 10:13 PM

Just got out of prison a few days prior to robbing?
Well I guess he got what he deserved.

Eh he definitely didn't deserve to die but you have to expect people to defend themselves and there are real consequences, either legally or otherwise. The whole thing is unfortunate.

Exactly! A good sword can do some massive damage! The kid should not serve anytime he defended his home from a robber nuff said.

Massive damage you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g1fr5vk72M

Ohh it's still funny.

joshythegreat18

09-16-2009, 11:08 PM

If the burglar was dismembered and curled into a ball on the floor, would it be OK for the student to continue slashing and stabbing the burglar?

While maybe it's not alright to be THAT excessive, I don't see a problem with killing somebody off whose robbing you. The fact is, if you're going to break into somebody's home and take their stuff, you deserve whatever you get. If that's a bullet to the head, or in this case, a samurai sword to the wrist, so be it.

Don't want to be killed? Here's a suggestion: Instead of breaking into somebody's home and taking their shit, get a Fucking job and buy your own. There's a lot of things I'd like to own. I'd love a 60" plasma and some more games, but I'm not so ignorant as to think I'm entitled to break into a house that isn't mine and take the things that others bought with their own money.

IMHO, good riddance to this trash. He's now where all people like him belong.

blue_volvo

09-16-2009, 11:20 PM

This should go into General Gaming forum, one of the articles said that someone had already burgled the house earlier that day and a PS3 was stolen.

Houses on that street get broken into quite often actually. When I was going there my buddies' house a block further east was broken into while they were sleeping. The burglar made off with tons of dvds, video games and a PS2 (this was a while ago).

Though none of the students in the house would have been med students (they were all undergrads and the med campus is downtown) there actually is a hospital right across the street (not affiliated with JHU).

The deceased just got out of jail 8 months early from an 18 month sentence for auto theft. It appears he would have been safer in jail.

h3llbring3r

09-17-2009, 12:29 AM

If the burglar was dismembered and curled into a ball on the floor, would it be OK for the student to continue slashing and stabbing the burglar?
Not just an alleged burglar, but an alleged assailant.

An old wise criminal defense attorney gave me some surprising advice once regarding the use of lethal force in self-defense, especially considering his extreme liberal leanings.

He said, "If you ever fear for your life and react with deadly force in an act self-preservation make sure you kill your assailant."

camoor

09-17-2009, 04:32 AM

He'll probably get a criminal record and a lawsuit from the thiefs family. That's what America does to people who protect their property.

Spacepest

09-17-2009, 04:36 AM

An old wise criminal defense attorney gave me some surprising advice once regarding the use of lethal force in self-defense, especially considering his extreme liberal leanings.

He said, "If you ever fear for your life and react with deadly force in an act self-preservation make sure you kill your assailant."

I had a retired police officer give me the same advice. His reasoning was a dead criminal was unable to sue for medical damage or press charges against you. If you were really unlucky the criminal's family might sue you for wrongful death, but he said in all reality this was a rare occurance, because most of the time the dead criminal was usually such a dickwad that even their own family wouldn't want to get involved afterwards.

He also proceeded to tell me one of the most outrageous cases he had participated in. He answered a call for a burglary. The homeowner had found a robber in his home, threatening his family. Homeowner pulled a gun and aimed for the man's leg, shooting to incapacitate him rather than kill. The bullet ended up hitting the man in the hip instead. When all was said and done, the robber sued the homeowner for medical damages, mental stress from excessive use of force, plus future payments for fertility treatments because he could no longer function to produce children normally. And he won in court! Now, none of this would have come about if the homeowner had just straight out killed the guy.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-17-2009, 12:58 PM

While maybe it's not alright to be THAT excessive, I don't see a problem with killing somebody off whose robbing you. The fact is, if you're going to break into somebody's home and take their stuff, you deserve whatever you get. If that's a bullet to the head, or in this case, a samurai sword to the wrist, so be it.

Don't want to be killed? Here's a suggestion: Instead of breaking into somebody's home and taking their shit, get a Fucking job and buy your own. There's a lot of things I'd like to own. I'd love a 60" plasma and some more games, but I'm not so ignorant as to think I'm entitled to break into a house that isn't mine and take the things that others bought with their own money.

IMHO, good riddance to this trash. He's now where all people like him belong.

I agree with you, but cops and the Prison Industry don't agree with us.

willardhaven

09-17-2009, 01:14 PM

You guys have issues.

n8rockerasu

09-17-2009, 01:30 PM

If the burglar was dismembered and curled into a ball on the floor, would it be OK for the student to continue slashing and stabbing the burglar?

I think you give up those rights when you've broken into someone's home. I mean, don't get me me wrong. I get what you're saying. But it's a very hard point to prove when the only other witnesses were people who were probably also fearful that you were robbing them.

Besides, who's to say that the burglar wouldn't have killed any one of them if he had to in order to get away with the goods? I just can't feel much sympathy for someone when things go bad while they're breaking the law and endangering others.

h3llbring3r

09-17-2009, 01:40 PM

A wounded animal is often more dangerous than one that's not.

I'm not saying that all criminals are animals, but think about it, if you were just paroled- in a 2 or 3 strikes state and the homeowner thought you were subdued/incapacitated; leaving you at the scene to call the cops after you know he/she got a good look your face (not to mention your bloody DNA everywhere). What would you do, as a criminal, to that homeowner if you could manage to recover your wits enough to manage a second go at him or her. Would you just flee the scene and hope all is forgotten?

Also, no retreat states are where it's at.

crunchb3rry

09-17-2009, 02:32 PM

The fact is, if you're going to break into somebody's home and take their stuff, you deserve whatever you get. If that's a bullet to the head, or in this case, a samurai sword to the wrist, so be it.

I kinda agree. Nobody has any business entering a stranger's home in the early morning hours. Or any time of day. You'd either have to be literally retarded and not know any better, or up to no good and willing to harm the occupants.

jaykrue

09-17-2009, 05:45 PM

I kinda agree. Nobody has any business entering a stranger's home in the early morning hours. Or any time of day. You'd either have to be literally retarded and not know any better, or up to no good and willing to harm the occupants.

Or a hero of time with elfin features wielding the master sword and randomly breaking any vases within the home. Or a band of Light Warriors bent on saving the world, one NPC at a time. Or the son of a great warrior named Ortega whose real name is lost in the mists of time only to be elevated to legendary status and given the name Erdrick.

fatherofcaitlyn

09-17-2009, 06:48 PM

I can't believe I'm playing this side of the argument.

Let's pretend the burglar was obviously deranged such smashing his face into a wall, slobbering and screaming gibberish.

Ginsu or take pity?

GuilewasNK

09-17-2009, 07:03 PM

h3llbring3r

09-17-2009, 07:04 PM

I can't believe I'm playing this side of the argument.

Let's pretend the burglar was obviously deranged such smashing his face into a wall, slobbering and screaming gibberish.

Ginsu or take pity?

If you truly fear for your life how does that change the equation?
Mentally deranged people kill sane people all the time; like pushing them in front of a subway train, or bleeding their demons out.

willardhaven

09-17-2009, 07:43 PM

n8rockerasu

09-17-2009, 07:52 PM

If you truly fear for your life how does that change the equation?
Mentally deranged people kill sane people all the time; like pushing them in front of a subway train, or bleeding their demons out.

This.

The issue here is the perceived threat on one's life. Regardless of the mental capacity of the criminal in question, if the student feared for his life (and who's to say he didn't? How would any of us react to a strange person in our home who is clearly there with bad intentions?), all bets are off. If the criminal had some kind of history of mental illness, or even an adult-child disability, then you could maybe make a case. But even so, the person he's trying to rob isn't aware of that. In that instance, I think it just becomes an unfortunate accident. It's hard to say how threatened a person should feel with an intruder in his home.

The fact of the matter is, the history of the criminal alone should be enough to protect the student from any charges. It's not like some mentally handicapped teenager with no criminal record just wandered into the guy's garage, and he freaked out and chopped him to bits with his katana. The burglar made a conscious decision to break the law and steal from this guy, and he got more than he bargained for. To sum up: too bad, so sad. The last thing we need to be worrying about are the rights of people who completely disregard the rights of everyone else.

willardhaven

09-17-2009, 07:55 PM

There's no such thing as excessive use of force.

strongpimphand

09-17-2009, 08:27 PM

OK, this is how I was taught the difference between self-defense, and murder

A man hears rumblings in his kitchen. He sneaks into his kitchen quietly with his bat. He sees someone walking around. He tells the person to leave. GO! GET OUT MY HOUSE!

The person doesn't respond to his commands. He got something in his hand too. This enrages the homeowner, who proceeds to strike the stranger in the head. A clean swing. BOOM!

He turns on the light. It's his neighbor in his bathrobe with his (the neighbor's) remote in his hand. The neighbor had a sleepwalking problem and the homeowner had a home just like his with a front room like his and a door that was unlocked.

This is why you can't just go "well, if someone is in my house...." because mistakes happen. You can detain a person. You can of course call the police. You can defend yourself if YOU'RE in harm's way...but you can't just go shooting or swinging or whatever. That's illegal.

keithp

09-17-2009, 08:30 PM

I believe the robber's last words were, "Luke, I am your father!"

h3llbring3r

09-17-2009, 08:37 PM

This is why you can't just go "well, if someone is in my house...." because mistakes happen. You can detain a person. You can of course call the police. You can defend yourself if YOU'RE in harm's way...but you can't just go shooting or swinging or whatever. That's illegal.

100% wrong.

In a self-defense/ justifiable homicide case all that matters is a person's reasonable perception of bodily harm. A non-responsive figure, recognized as someone who was not part of the household, in your home brandishing a dark object is a cut and dry slam-dunk case. You couldn't even get that past a grand jury in Brentwood.

You cannot apply the benefit of hindsight in a situation like that. It is unreasonable to expect a person to be omnipotent and an unreasonable expectation for them to risk their (and possibly by extension their family's) life and limb while you wait for all the facts to bare themselves out in a split second decision like that.

_____________

Also, try detaining someone against their will these days and see where that gets you- you'll get charged with kidnapping on top of everything else, even if they were committing a crime.

Hostile

09-17-2009, 09:12 PM

@strongpimphand (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=119091)

The chances of that happening are small. In my area, I'll definitely take my chances and assume any unknown person in my house is not there by accident.

GuilewasNK

09-18-2009, 07:13 AM

gamenlegend

09-18-2009, 08:10 AM

I'm glad I have my sword :). In all seriousness though, the guy got what he deserved. The only sad thing is, yes in America, the burglar could have sued. Our judicial system is very fucked up.

Stryffe2004

09-18-2009, 08:35 AM

I'm pretty liberal but there are few things that enrage me more than some "bum" trying to steal from someone who had to work hard to get the things they have. Unless you are stealing food to feed your family, I have little sympathy for thieves. Further, unless the thief is running out the door, there is always going to be danger to the property owner. The thief may decide that he can hit the homeowner over the head and get away or maybe just kill them. Even with no record, there is no way to know what the thief has gotten away with.

Bottom line: If you come into someone else's house with malice on your mind, all bets are off.

Stryffe2004

09-18-2009, 08:40 AM

I'm glad I have my sword :). In all seriousness though, the guy got what he deserved. The only sad thing is, yes in America, the burglar could have sued. Our judicial system is very fucked up.

As a cog in that judicial system, I will say it does have its issues, but if the burglar had lived and sued, he would not have gotten far. The only cases where I imagine there would be any kind of success would be if the burglar was running away and maybe got slashed in the back or had surrendered. Except in Texas where anything goes.

The flip side of this is felony murder. M ost if not all states have this. It means that if you are committing a felony and someone dies, that death is on you. That potentially means that if rob a store and the police accidently shoot the storeowner trying to get at you, you may be on the hook. Or if you cause an accident fleeing the scene and someone dies, you may be charged. Those are the text book extreme kinds of cases, but it does add an extra layer of "come-uppance" to would be criminals.

h3llbring3r

09-18-2009, 12:25 PM

As a cog in that judicial system, I will say it does have its issues, but if the burglar had lived and sued, he would not have gotten far. The only cases where I imagine there would be any kind of success would be if the burglar was running away and maybe got slashed in the back or had surrendered.

"As a cog in the legal system" you are probably aware that you don't have to lose your lawsuit to undergo huge expenses, stress, strain and "strife" in cases where someone litigates against you. My HOA just won both suits we were involved in. The first cost us >$3k and the last resulted in another $8k in legal fees. We will have it paid off in five years, and everyone in the neighborhood gets their dues doubled.

All you have to do is google about criminals that have sued and read page after page of it, and yes some have been successful. However, like I said they don't have to win to nearly bankrupt you.