Anyone else NOT anticipating the next generation of consoles?

[punqsux]

ok ive ranted about this a couple of times on GT, and most users there think im insane, but im curious who agrees with me?

i am in no way fully satisfied witht his gens games.

yes there are some great games, but there is little to no innovation in most of them. most of thise gans games are better looking versions of last gens games.

when ps2 came out, it felt right...it had done all it could and it was time to move on, it (and other consoles) had a ton of titled that really impacted the way people thought of games. Resident evil, virtua fighter, final fantasy 7, Mario 64, metal gear solid all made huge impacts (not to mention the way that the playstation reinvented the art of storytelling in video games) on what we as gamers perceived a game to be.

this gen i can think of one game that got across the same impact; Grand Theft Auto 3.

it just dosent feel like its time to move on. nothing comming out this fall/winter looks like it will have that impact or innovation either, and its a shame...is innovation dead are are we just too closed minded to accept the next level of innovation?

[punqsux]

guess im alone here too ^^

[Dok Diamond]

all i know is i love the snes days...

[SneakyPenguin]

As it stands, with no real knowledge of upcoming games, I see no reason to get any. Once I see the upcoming titles, I'll make my decision.

[Kaijufan]

I know Im not anticipating getting a next gen console as much as I anticipated getting my PS2 and Gamecube (I bought my Xbox a few days after I decided to get one, so I did not do any anticipating).
I suppose my anticipation could increase when when I actually see next gen games (Besides Elder Scrolls 4).

[darth007]

I agree fully. I dont care for gaming as much as I used to pre 128-bit cause of the endless sequels and unoriginal games that aren't innovative at all. Its like the gaming companies don't even care about entertaining the consumer anymore and all they do care about is making $$$.

[Spacepest]

No you're not alone. I feel the same way. Lack of innovation in games, and too many games being released at one time.

Its been awhile since I've played a game so good that I played it for 24 hours in a row. Lately all I feel like that most of the games being released are loads of overhyped crap. I don't care how pretty the games are and how powerful the system is, if the game is boring as hell, the controls suck, and it is the same generic plot being rehashed over and over again, then it is no fun to play.

No, I'm not looking forward to the next's gen of consoles. And being a cheap ass has nothing to do with it.

[spyhunterk19]

I agree with punq, but as time goes on it gets harder to innovate. Nintendo is usually the one to do this though (Recently Donkey Konga). The built in hard drive for xbox was an innovation that will surely be copied in the next generation(Ps3, xbox2, revolution). Also, Xbox live set the bar for online play, with a great voice system and a huge subscriber list. Nintendo could have gone sumwhere when gba connectivity, but they shaq-fued that up.

[pimp tyranny]

i see your point, but the technology limts the innovation.

[MadChedar0]

Dont forget Metroid Prime, that's like THE game for me this generation. Haven't had a gaming experience like that in a long time.

[Rig]

I am not ready to move on, because college is expensive, and I don't want to shell out the cash for new systems!

[MorPhiend]

I think you're mostly corredt punq, except as far as Nintendo is concerned. Just look at Iwata's constant comments on not wanting to go online, not wanting to make the most powerful (as far as numbers go) machine. It's not because he wants to limit fun. As far as online goes, his main underlying theme is that consumers don't want to pay extra for a subscription, pay for broadband (if they don't already have it), etc. Look at http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=day&date=2004-10-06#661 (and www.demasked.com in the future). That is showing that Nintendo is now bringing wireless multiplayer to gamers through a partnership with Warp Pipe. Hopefully, we will find out more of the details (and more) tomorrow. As far as the latest technology, Iwata keeps talking about how they will continue to build upon the current Gamecube model to make new ways of having fun and that they plan on the GCN to last at least 4-5 years into the next generation. They are not giving up on it like they did the 64. And he also says that Revolution will truly change the way we think about playing videogames. I know that these are mostly just sound bites, but given the rumors concerning DS (especially if they pan out to be as or more exciting than they have been built up to be) and given Nintendo's track record with innovation and their devotion to the consumer, I think we can always count on Nintendo.

IMO, I think that if the videogame industry suddenly went back to being a niche market tomorrow, instead of the mass market thing we have today, the only of the big three who would be able to survive would be Nintendo. That's because they have the most loyal fan base. And there's good reason for that. Anyway, that's more of a rant than I was expecting, and there's my two cents. Take it for what it's worth...

[miriamleo]

I agree. The reason N64 and PSone made such an impact because it changes from 2D to 3D. And that's revolution.
Same thing for NES, which expands the simple gameplay from Pong to Mario. Then SNES, which is similar to PS2 this generation, is a refinement of NES (PS2 refine 3D from PSone, and so as GC refine N64).
If the next generation doesn't have anything exciting, it could be bad. Because the Xbox PS2 GC already refine 3D to near its limit. They can already create some amazing stuffs like Halo 2 and Resident Evil 4 graphically.
This is what Nintendo is thinking. They openly said that the graphics this generation can already provide enough power for any kind of gameplay. So they are going in the direction to change the gameplay. And first they are testing it with the DS.

[punqsux]

donkey konga is a niche title, if it gets more then 5 games that use the drum id be shocked.

online play isnt an innovation, pc games have done it since the mid 90's. thats like calling mouse and keyboard support innovative.

[punqsux]

2d to 3d was a big leap, but i highly doubt 3d (or 2d for that matter) gameplay has been stretched to its limits.

another innovative title i rememberd was wario ware.

[MorPhiend]

donkey konga is a niche title, if it gets more then 5 games that use the drum id be shocked.

online play isnt an innovation, pc games have done it since the mid 90's. thats like calling mouse and keyboard support innovative.

Yeah, I was going to list some titles, including Donkey Konga, but decided the same thing there.
And that was part of my point with online play. And that's why Nintendo hasn't gone with it, because there is nothing exciting in it to them.

[MorPhiend]

2d to 3d was a big leap, but i highly doubt 3d (or 2d for that matter) gameplay has been stretched to its limits.

another innovative title i rememberd was wario ware.

It was a big leap. The funny thing is, it wasn't 3D that did it. It was innovation in it's execution. There were plenty of 3D titles on PC and PS and such before the 64 came out. But everyone pretty much recognizes Super Mario 64 as the Grand-daddy of the 3D video game.

On a tangent: Speaking of a game by Shigeru Miyamoto and the game Wario Ware; Miyamoto is considered one of, if not the, most creative and innovative people in the industry. And he has stated how jealous he is of Yoshio Sakamoto for creating Wario Ware. That's a big compliment, IMO, comming from the man. My point being, Nintendo is not the only place innovations are capable of coming from, they are just the ones who try the hardest (and thus succeed most often).

[Mij]

In all honesty, I'm not to into this generation. I loved the NES when I was a kid and absolutedly adored Genesis. I was gonna buy a N64 or Saturn during the 32-bit days but honestly PSX just had the better game support. Finally when the Dreamcast came along I was in heaven. That console seemed to have some truly original and fun games and it's a shame it had such a short life. I can see Sega coming out with some more innovative titles in the future but not until they are finacially stable. Although, since they are under Sammy now, I can their creativity being limited.

For this next generation I really look forward to the Nintendo Revolution. With recent titles like Wario Ware and Donkey Konga, I believe Nintendo may have enough guts to make some great new innovations in the game market. Judging by this generation, I doubt the Xbox2 (or whatever the name is) or PS3 will be much different than the current-gen.

The one thing I look forward to next generation is cheaper prices of this-gen games so I can catch all the titles I've missed. I also am hoping Microsoft and Nintendo can make appropriate adjustments to their strategies and consoles to really make this console war interesting again. I really hope Nintendo's Revolution is truly unique and that Xbox2 has a more diversified line-up.

Am I looking forward to the next-gen? Well yes. Then video games may become innovative once again.
[/rant]

[crystalklear64]

On a side note, the latest OPM has an article on the PS3. Most people are estimating a next gen console costing 500$ and up. 500$!! you could blow that on something better than a game console!

[punqsux]

On a side note, the latest OPM has an article on the PS3. Most people are estimating a next gen console costing 500$ and up. 500$!! you could blow that on something better than a game console!


good lord thats 100 cc games XoD

[CaseyRyback]

Console makers are smart enough to know that if they stick their prices up too high that they will lose consumers. SONY is probably the smartest at this (undercutting the Saturn by 100 dollars, and then knowing people would be willing to pay an extra 100 for a DVD drive).


Also, I hate the last generation of games. Blocky 3D graphics just piss me off. I am happy with this generation of games, but with new graphics come new ways to interact with enviroments and with new technology comes with more ways to bring about innovation

[Backlash]

I agree that this generation of hardware is plenty powerful enough to make awesome games, and innovation needs to be the driving force for the next year (at least), rather than better graphics, etc.

I'd like to see more innovation in the area of input devices. Eye Toy is a great start, though limited right now by technology. The Dancepads for DDR are another great device, though I don't play that game myself. The GC bongos look like fun (though, as someone said, they don't really seem to hae a wide range of application).

[punqsux]

I'd like to see more innovation in the area of input devices. Eye Toy is a great start, though limited right now by technology. The Dancepads for DDR are another great device, though I don't play that game myself. The GC bongos look like fun (though, as someone said, they don't really seem to hae a wide range of application).

gimmicky controllers are a favorite of mine...i love light gun games, i love ddr, i love donkey konga, i suck at samba de amigo, but i still like it, but the thing is, none of these games really make an impact. the most sucessful thus far has been ddr/dancepads and i doubt you could say that that isnt a niche market.

i would love to see a new type of controller take off and have wide 3rd party support, but people are just determined to play games with their thumbs i guess =o\

[Doylerulez]

Another potential problem for the next generation (and partly this one) is that some of the machines are focusing more on "other than gaming" aspects.

PS2 and X-box can play dvds, that's fine. Why people would worry if a system will have DVDRW or mp3 capabilites when just about all of them already own a home computer that can do just that. The cost of a system and 1 controller are looking to be higher than ever. I'll be fine for a while either way, as I still have a pile of games to play and there are still plenty of titles coming out to keep me busy.

[MorPhiend]

I have faith in Nintendo as far as the next console price. Just look at the DS as an example of what's to come.

[-Never4ever-]

Well I agree with Punq's sentiments, but I totally disagree with the reasons.

I'm not anticipating the next series of consoles because I have a shit ton of AAA games to play through. I mean seriously, if the VG industry collapsed tommorow I'd still be playing the current games till I'm in my late 50s.

As for Punq's reasons: they're all based off nostagia. Yes the past wazs fun, but it's still the past. That newness factor that came from the leap up from 16 bit to 32/64 bit will never be matched, never. To say that the only innovating game to have come out this generation is GTA3 is just plain silly. Even if meant from a sales point-of-view it's still very silly. We live in the greatest era of games ever and the only thing people can say is how much the industry sucks now, there's no innovation, blah, blah, blah. I was once a victom of nostagia and, in many ways, I still am, but I've learned to let the past go and concentrate on the future.

Let go of nostagia before it consumes you, just look at dennisdfat :)

[evilpenguin9000]

I'm not looking forward to the next gen because I think they are rushing it out. Usually most of hte best games for a console come in the last year or two of it's development. If you cut out those two years to crap out another console youve lost the best stuff. Not to mention the fact that I'll have to shell out another wad of cash to stay current.

[Zenithian Legend]

actually I really didn't care when this batch came out. I just got my GC last year in November, and plan on getting a ps2 before the year ends.

[MorPhiend]

I'm not looking forward to the next gen because I think they are rushing it out. Usually most of hte best games for a console come in the last year or two of it's development. If you cut out those two years to crap out another console youve lost the best stuff. Not to mention the fact that I'll have to shell out another wad of cash to stay current.

That's why Satoru Iwata has said that they will not abondon the GCN as they did the N64. He has said that Nintendo will continue to push the GCN and come up with new and innovative ideas and that they plan on it lasting around 4-5 years into the next generation. Notice also that the Nintendo Revolution has not been focused on new graphical technologies, but will also focus on innovation.

Think it's hype? Look at all of what's surrounding the DS right now (and in the coming weeks).

[MorPhiend]

actually I really didn't care when this batch came out. I just got my GC last year in November, and plan on getting a ps2 before the year ends.

I agree. Bought the GCN back when RE came out (it was about six months old), but I still have yet to buy a PS2 (or PS1 for that matter). I bought an Xbox about 20 months ago and it was one of the biggest mistakes of my life... I've logged probably about 3-4 hours on the thing (then it broke).

[vanlandw]

I love all three of my current generation consoles. Next June I"m going to get a new PC and ride that along for until a year after the next gen of systems come outl

[willardhaven]

Gaming is turning into the movie industry... It will be harder now to filter out all the bullshit being churned out by companies.

I miss classic, turn-based, pre-rendered RPGs... I still play FF IX and my PSone and SNES games.

I think games like Viewtiful Joe and Metroid Prime are pretty grand acheivements for this generation. But I don't want an all-in-one media device next gen... I want a Video Game Console.

[MorPhiend]

Gaming is turning into the movie industry... It will be harder now to filter out all the bullshit being churned out by companies.

I miss classic, turn-based, pre-rendered RPGs... I still play FF IX and my PSone and SNES games.

I think games like Viewtiful Joe and Metroid Prime are pretty grand acheivements for this generation. But I don't want an all-in-one media device next gen... I want a Video Game Console.

That's what Nintendo has said all along...

[kaji7p56]

When I was a dumd teenager, all I cared about was graphics. I would always be wondering, "When is the next Sony or Nintendo sytem coming out? I wonder how it will look. I am excited!!"

But when I look at the graphics of this generation, they are good enough to suck us into their world. We need more great games, not a new system that will have mediocre games (most launch games are not that great, but just show off the system's power). Just when this gen is picking up steam, they want to start over.

I know, it's all about money. As long as they still make games for this gen, then I will not buy the next gen consoles.

[hiccupleftovers]

I agree. The reason N64 and PSone made such an impact because it changes from 2D to 3D. And that's revolution.
Same thing for NES, which expands the simple gameplay from Pong to Mario. Then SNES, which is similar to PS2 this generation, is a refinement of NES (PS2 refine 3D from PSone, and so as GC refine N64).
If the next generation doesn't have anything exciting, it could be bad. Because the Xbox PS2 GC already refine 3D to near its limit. They can already create some amazing stuffs like Halo 2 and Resident Evil 4 graphically.
This is what Nintendo is thinking. They openly said that the graphics this generation can already provide enough power for any kind of gameplay. So they are going in the direction to change the gameplay. And first they are testing it with the DS.

I agree with your statemnet on how the SNES was a refinement of the NES. That analogy can be used towards this generation. I see that towards the end of this gneration on towards next generation, Nintendo has the ball in their court. They are starting to be the leaders in innovation and games that are just fun and a blast to pick up and play. People still associate game in general with Nintendo and if so it is make or break time for NIntendo. If they don't show to the world that they are still a viable large great gaming company then they will falter and they will cease to be. The hardcore gamers, us and others out ther, already know what NIntendo has and can offer and that they are some of the best, but the world is starting to think in the direction of Sony. we need to cultivate this generation of game players to think in innovation and games from a differnet angle, to used the cliche think out of the box and get out of the normal humdrum of games. GTA3 is a good example. It came out, everybody was like wow, and then you have three thousand carbon copy's. The same can be said in the early years of the fighter. You had many copy cats of fighter and then the industry started to weed out the weak from the strong.

Ultimately, the video game industry is going to become more and more hollywood style. You will have yolur games that will make you feel "wow" but very much for the most part, you will see many games that are just blow this up action rompfests. They need to understand that the story is very much a part of the game as much as graphics and gameplay. Why do you think people continueally go to see movies that are basically different ideas on the same plot? Good guy wins, bad guy loses, action action action. They have to find a way to bring people in. People enjoy the same good story, but they want it to be different.

[basketkase543]

I don't see any reason why we can't increase the life span of every generation. Why does it have to be an average of about 4-5 years? By keeping with current hardware developers will be forced to innovate instead of just going to a new system and doing the same ole' same ole' with better graphics.

[ryosnk]

I dont feel excited also about the next generation of consoles. Let it be because we dont have the specs on the systems and what they will be added with (DVD - TIVO). Overall, I hate that console companies promise so much with their systems and they dont deliver. I dont want to purchase any console on launch because I know, I can get it for half that with a game, a year later. Overall I can wait because I have other things that are important to invest my money on. :wink:

[MorPhiend]

I agree. The reason N64 and PSone made such an impact because it changes from 2D to 3D. And that's revolution.
Same thing for NES, which expands the simple gameplay from Pong to Mario. Then SNES, which is similar to PS2 this generation, is a refinement of NES (PS2 refine 3D from PSone, and so as GC refine N64).
If the next generation doesn't have anything exciting, it could be bad. Because the Xbox PS2 GC already refine 3D to near its limit. They can already create some amazing stuffs like Halo 2 and Resident Evil 4 graphically.
This is what Nintendo is thinking. They openly said that the graphics this generation can already provide enough power for any kind of gameplay. So they are going in the direction to change the gameplay. And first they are testing it with the DS.

I agree with your statemnet on how the SNES was a refinement of the NES. That analogy can be used towards this generation. I see that towards the end of this gneration on towards next generation, Nintendo has the ball in their court. They are starting to be the leaders in innovation and games that are just fun and a blast to pick up and play. People still associate game in general with Nintendo and if so it is make or break time for NIntendo. If they don't show to the world that they are still a viable large great gaming company then they will falter and they will cease to be. The hardcore gamers, us and others out ther, already know what NIntendo has and can offer and that they are some of the best, but the world is starting to think in the direction of Sony. we need to cultivate this generation of game players to think in innovation and games from a differnet angle, to used the cliche think out of the box and get out of the normal humdrum of games. GTA3 is a good example. It came out, everybody was like wow, and then you have three thousand carbon copy's. The same can be said in the early years of the fighter. You had many copy cats of fighter and then the industry started to weed out the weak from the strong.

Ultimately, the video game industry is going to become more and more hollywood style. You will have yolur games that will make you feel "wow" but very much for the most part, you will see many games that are just blow this up action rompfests. They need to understand that the story is very much a part of the game as much as graphics and gameplay. Why do you think people continueally go to see movies that are basically different ideas on the same plot? Good guy wins, bad guy loses, action action action. They have to find a way to bring people in. People enjoy the same good story, but they want it to be different.

That's how I feel, pretty much. Nintendo has the only innovation out of the Big Three. Some other companies do too, but out of the hardware manufacturers, only Nintnedo is up to the task. But you mentioned GTA3, a big part of the success there is shock value. I personally don't feel that there is a lot of innovation in a go around and kill everyone game. I like VP George Harrison's comment that, "...Mario will never shoot hookers." Nintendo doesn't need shock value to sell a game.

[sying]

You say that now, but when it gets closer, you may change your view once we get a better idea of what is to come.

[hiccupleftovers]

I don't see any reason why we can't increase the life span of every generation. Why does it have to be an average of about 4-5 years? By keeping with current hardware developers will be forced to innovate instead of just going to a new system and doing the same ole' same ole' with better graphics.

Exaclty. Good Point.

[wubb]

I'm looking forward to the next gen consoles. Imagine the clearance bins for this gen's games?! Woop. :wink:

I doubt I'll be picking an of the next gen consoles up at launch, but it will be cool to see the improvements in graphics, etc.

One thing that is awesome with this gen's stuff is the fully voiced dialogue. KOTOR wouldn't have been half as enjoyable without fully voiced dialogue IMO.

Plus there are so many great games out there you can pick up cheap. I don't remember it being like that in the NES and SNES days (the cartridge format may have something to do with that.) Like a few months ago I picked up Max Payne XB for $6.50 shipped (pre-owned) and that is a hell of a game.

[wubb]

I don't see any reason why we can't increase the life span of every generation. Why does it have to be an average of about 4-5 years? By keeping with current hardware developers will be forced to innovate instead of just going to a new system and doing the same ole' same ole' with better graphics.

Exaclty. Good Point.

It's all about what the big wigs think consumers want and will spend money on. That's always the bottom line in business.

[defiance_17]

I disagree that GTA3's success was largely due to shock value. That's all anyone seems to want to talk about, but there is no way it would have sold half as well as it did if it were a terrible game. Look at something like State of Emergency--the game just wasn't that great, and the only reason it sold as well as it did was because of the Rockstar logo. The shock value was there--possibly more so than GTA--but the gameplay couldn't hold its own; this is why it is destined to be a forgotten title.
A game like GTA3 is certainly revolutionary--although it wasn't the first of it's kind, it took gaming to a new level and almost single handedly shattered the myth that "games are for kids." It will forever be known as the title that brought adult-oriented games into the mainstream.

[smellhasreturned]

im with ya punq it doesnt feel like its time to move on

[willardhaven]

I really like this thread : )

[Mij]

I don't see any reason why we can't increase the life span of every generation. Why does it have to be an average of about 4-5 years? By keeping with current hardware developers will be forced to innovate instead of just going to a new system and doing the same ole' same ole' with better graphics.

Honestly this generation probably would have lasted longer if it wasn' t for XBox. Microsoft made a mistake in designing such a high cost console. With every Xbox sold, Microsoft loses a lot more money than Sony does on every PS2. Because of the high costs of the Xbox, Microsoft has gone with something more cost efficient for the Next-gen so they can more readily compete. Since Microsoft is pushing the next gen, Nintendo and Sony need to have consoles prepared so they dont miss out on any profit opportunities. If the Xbox didn't cost Microsoft so much money to make, I could see this generation lasting a lot longer. Here's hoping for a longer next gen (say 8 years?)

[MorPhiend]

I disagree that GTA3's success was largely due to shock value. That's all anyone seems to want to talk about, but there is no way it would have sold half as well as it did if it were a terrible game. Look at something like State of Emergency--the game just wasn't that great, and the only reason it sold as well as it did was because of the Rockstar logo. The shock value was there--possibly more so than GTA--but the gameplay couldn't hold its own; this is why it is destined to be a forgotten title.
A game like GTA3 is certainly revolutionary--although it wasn't the first of it's kind, it took gaming to a new level and almost single handedly shattered the myth that "games are for kids." It will forever be known as the title that brought adult-oriented games into the mainstream.

Hey now. I never said that GTA3 was a terrible game. I said that it's huge, widespread success was in part due to the shock value. It wouldn't have done nearly as well (if it would have even been noticed at all) if it had been the same gameplay with a G-Rated story.

[guessed]

Well, it is still early. The Next-Gen machines won't be out for another year or more, and they haven't even started hyping them yet. I am eagerly anticipating the Nintendo DS, and I am reserving judgement on the Sony PSP. Nintendo seems to have done a brilliant job combining innovation with nostalgia in Mario 64 DS -- That may be as much of a system seller as the original Mario 64 was on the N64.

The problem with innovations in gameplay lie not in the fact that they are difficult to make, but in the fact that they are difficult to sell. Faster processors are quantifiable, innovative gameplay is not, so the industry will continue to put out new machines to drive the market. There is a bit of a catch-22, the (marketer's perception of the) gamers need to change in order for the games to change, but the gamers can't change if the games aren't made available. Nintendo is the market leader in gameplay innovation. Not only games made by Nintendo, but games made for Nintendo systems tend to take the most chances, because a large portion of Nintendo's fanbase are niche gamers. Many of Nintendo's ideas fail in the market, but they continue to try, because, more often than not, it works for them. Sony is gaining ground, with the eyetoy peripheral (eyetoy play is $30 in the current sale at ebgames.com, in case you missed it. Get it if you haven't picked it up yet), DDR fanbase, and the stateside release of games like Katamari Damacy. Sony wades in where Nintendo dives, because Sony does not want to lose hold of the mass-market. Microsoft is mass-market all the way -- I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, they have some excellent games, but they don't take many risks (which makes it kind of ironic that many of their mainstream titles fail to sell well). I think if Microsoft hopes to gain any ground in the console war, the next Xbox needs to be more than just a pixel-pusher, they need to take some risks with gameplay.

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed. I do think that today's graphics are good enough, although I must admit that I generally choose the Xbox version of multi-platform releases, specifically for the graphical enhancements. Perhaps the newer systems will blow us all away with the increased detail and framerates, but I find it hard to conceive that it will be as big a jump as from SNES to PS1, or PS1 to current-generation.

If the games show up, I will probably get at least one system at launch (I have to continue to support the industry, plus when new consoles are released, development slows on the older systems), but, as of now, I am undecided as to which one.

[adamada]

Yeah, I'm not too excited about the next gen consoles myself. I am really looking forward to price drops in current gen consoles though. There are a bunch of games that I'd like to get, but just ain't got da moula for. Nothin' like bein' a po graduate student :wink:

[x0thedeadzone0x]

I totally agree. I also don't see a need for the DS or the PSP (commence flaming, I don't care). It seems like everything's being rushed. Warioware is brilliant, as is the GTA series.

[Parathod]

I'd like to finish up the games I have for these consoles, before moving onto the next console. I'm very interested in gaming and check out these boards often, but when I think about, I only spend 10 hours a week really playing games.

[punqsux]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

[MorPhiend]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

Sounds like Nintendo's sentiments for the next-gen and their continued support for the GCN for the next 4-5 years.

Sony and M$'s plan so far is to just drop the current consoles when the new one comes out. Speaking of which, has anyone heard lately: is M$ still planning on not being backwards compatible with their next system? Last I heard, that was the situation...

[punqsux]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

Sounds like Nintendo's sentiments for the next-gen and their continued support for the GCN for the next 4-5 years.

keeping the cube going until 2008 or 2009 would be AMAZING

[Nirvanaguy777]

the only things im anticipating are megaman X8 and kingdom hearts 2

[MorPhiend]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

Sounds like Nintendo's sentiments for the next-gen and their continued support for the GCN for the next 4-5 years.

keeping the cube going until 2008 or 2009 would be AMAZING

I agree. But it is what they have stood by. And maybe that would set a new industry standard when the GCN outperforms other consoles in the next 4-5 years...

[hiccupleftovers]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

Sounds like Nintendo's sentiments for the next-gen and their continued support for the GCN for the next 4-5 years.

Sony and M$'s plan so far is to just drop the current consoles when the new one comes out. Speaking of which, has anyone heard lately: is M$ still planning on not being backwards compatible with their next system? Last I heard, that was the situation...

I thought I read somewhere that they were considering doing backward compatibilty with the next system through some form of emulation software. I think it might have been a gamespot article if i'm not mistaken. Still, machines that are backwards compatible sort of do increase the life of the previous generation when you think about it. I mean look at the PS1, it got continued support even through this year, though not to much. I still don't know if that would make me buy another system for $300-$400.

[MorPhiend]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

right now it dosent seem that graphical upgrades will cut it anymore, i am perfectly content with this gens graphics, so it'll take more than metal gear solid 4 to get me to buy another game console for more than $100

Sounds like Nintendo's sentiments for the next-gen and their continued support for the GCN for the next 4-5 years.

Sony and M$'s plan so far is to just drop the current consoles when the new one comes out. Speaking of which, has anyone heard lately: is M$ still planning on not being backwards compatible with their next system? Last I heard, that was the situation...

I thought I read somewhere that they were considering doing backward compatibilty with the next system through some form of emulation software. I think it might have been a gamespot article if i'm not mistaken. Still, machines that are backwards compatible sort of do increase the life of the previous generation when you think about it. I mean look at the PS1, it got continued support even through this year, though not to much. I still don't know if that would make me buy another system for $300-$400.

That's just speculation as far as the Revolution goes, although I am all for it.

[MorPhiend]

And while they're at it, they should make an all-in-one GBP like device that has a slot for the NES, SNES, and N64 that fits between the GCN and GBP. I have too much clutter in my room...

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm definitley not ready for the next gen consoles yet. I have barely scratched the surface on my current gen collection! I can't start collecting new games yet! I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, PEOPLE!

[MorPhiend]

I'm definitley not ready for the next gen consoles yet. I have barely scratched the surface on my current gen collection! I can't start collecting new games yet! I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, PEOPLE!

And you'll have even less money when this generation's game prices drop even more... :twisted:

[guessed]

Great games are possible on current-gen systems, and it remains to be seen if the improvements in technology of the next generation will allow for more innovative gameplay, or just more of the same with nicer graphics. If it is just better graphics, I will be disappointed.

thank you for typing exactly what was in my head ^^

And I was afraid you'd be mad at me for messing around in there. :robot:

[Rich]

While I think the next gen will open up the option to some innovative ideas, the next gen will bring along one important thing. Cheaper "last gen" games! :)

[omster]

These IMO are the only games that show innovation:
Wario Ware
Donkey Konga
Katamari Damancy


They're are also the most simplest of games. Games don't have to be complex to be fun.

Also, it's no wonder all the classic NES series nintendo released did so well.

[Eclipse]

Have to say though, most games that dared to innovate were mostly overlooked, and as a result, due to poor sales, companies turn to less riskier ventures..Like platformers, shoot em ups, etc.-just rehashes of the same concepts.. To makes money and stay afloat.
The games you mentioned were some of the only exceptions. =0

Sad..but thats how the industry works on the most part.
But Hopefully, people will learn to accept innovation more readily in the future...Or else, the game industry will get shaq-fued.

[Parathod]

omster, Donkey Konga is basically just Taiko Drum Master with a clap added, how is that innovative? I think a better example would be Mr. Mosquito or some other weird title.

[dracula]

i generally like to wait until the fourth year of a consoles life span before jumping on board, i just got a gc, ps2 and xbx this year now that all the games and systems are cheaper

[hiccupleftovers]

I'm definitley not ready for the next gen consoles yet. I have barely scratched the surface on my current gen collection! I can't start collecting new games yet! I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, PEOPLE!

Who does? :?: :?:

[punqsux]

omster, Donkey Konga is basically just Taiko Drum Master with a clap added, how is that innovative? I think a better example would be Mr. Mosquito or some other weird title.

it dosent matter how weird a title is...if it makes no impact it dosent do much to further the industry.

[Sheik Rattle Enroll]

On a side note, the latest OPM has an article on the PS3. Most people are estimating a next gen console costing 500$ and up. 500$!! you could blow that on something better than a game console!

The Saturn launched for $400. Stuff comes down pretty quickly.

I'm pretty psyched for the next generation. Alot of games in this generation are sequels with little graphical differentiation from previous titles. I think a Dynasty Warriors 5 on PS3 would be mindblowing.

[punqsux]

Alot of games in this generation are sequels with little graphical differentiation from previous titles.

yeah, thats what this thread is about!!

why would dw5 be mindblowing? 12 more enemies on screen with 6,000 more polygons each?

[hiccupleftovers]

On a side note, the latest OPM has an article on the PS3. Most people are estimating a next gen console costing 500$ and up. 500$!! you could blow that on something better than a game console!

The Saturn launched for $400. Stuff comes down pretty quickly.

I'm pretty psyched for the next generation. Alot of games in this generation are sequels with little graphical differentiation from previous titles. I think a Dynasty Warriors 5 on PS3 would be mindblowing.

Punqsux beat me to it but Yaeh, Another sequel. Big Deal, let's see something original on the next system. Sure we have had a few orignial titles (i.e. Jak and Daxter/Rachet and Clank) but most have been sequels or redone version of a classic (i.e. Prince of Persia which wasn't bad) but I want some more originality in gaming.

[Parathod]

I realized i'm going to get flamed, and that's fine, but I think you guys are just looking for something to complain about. Game innovation has always been slow and steady, with each generation comes the same amount of evolution and revolution as the generation prior to it. The Snes had some pretty original games, but most of the games were just evolved Nes games. The Saturn introduced some 3d through games like Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, and Daytona USA, but it was all the same shit as 2d. Then when the PS1 and N64 came out we got some more revisions to 3D such as Mario 64, Bushido Blade, CGI movies, Zelda:OoT, and Resident Evil, but although these games opened up some new ideas, I don't think they are adequate examples of true innovation but rather evolution over time. The PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era is the same exact thing. We have new game ideas and old ideas that have been expanded on, but in general, not that much is what we can call "new".
The things we can learn through gaming history is:
1) Games don't change much over a short period of time.
2) Nintendo abuses Mario.
3) Few risks are made.
4) That eventually DDR will take over the world.
5) Sequels and remakes are popular.

[Parathod]

Sorry, I forgot to add games that show some evolution from this generation:

Seaman
Grand Theft Auto - perhaps for the worse
Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Samba De Amigo
ICO
Wario Ware (as mentioned by omster)
Animal Crossing
Typing of the Dead - this can be debated
Powerstone 1,2, or Rave
Mark of Kri
Jet Grind Radio
Katamari Demacy
Gitaroo Man - also debatable
Shenmue
and i'm sure there were many more. The next generation of gaming is going to follow the tradition of all gaming... give them more of the same, but better, and throw them a new kind of seed once in a while. I think the only problem with gaming today is that we now have more than just one or two systems, so that innovation is split up between them and maybe it's harder to recognize.

Either way, I still won't be buying any home console until I finish the games for the ones I already have.

[punqsux]

Sorry, I forgot to add games that show some evolution from this generation:

Seaman
Grand Theft Auto - perhaps for the worse
Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Samba De Amigo
ICO
Wario Ware (as mentioned by omster)
Animal Crossing
Typing of the Dead - this can be debated
Powerstone 1,2, or Rave
Mark of Kri
Jet Grind Radio
Katamari Demacy
Gitaroo Man - also debatable
Shenmue


im not saying "there are no quirky games this gen"

none of those games made any kind of impact outside of gta3 and maybe wario ware/animal crossing

[hiccupleftovers]

Sorry, I forgot to add games that show some evolution from this generation:

Seaman
Grand Theft Auto - perhaps for the worse
Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
Samba De Amigo
ICO
Wario Ware (as mentioned by omster)
Animal Crossing
Typing of the Dead - this can be debated
Powerstone 1,2, or Rave
Mark of Kri
Jet Grind Radio
Katamari Demacy
Gitaroo Man - also debatable
Shenmue


im not saying "there are no quirky games this gen"

none of those games made any kind of impact outside of gta3 and maybe wario ware/animal crossing

Yes all of those were under the radar and who knows whether or not they will have an impact on the next generation of gaming. There has been innovation, but how many countless sequels and redone ideas have we seen this gen.

[BigBen]

Just because a game is innovative doesn't mean it's a good game. And just because a game isn't "innovative" doesn't mean it's a bad game. A good game is a good game, regardless of it's level of "innovation".

That being said, I'm not excited about the next gen mainly for monetary reasons. I'm not going to pay $300+ for a console or $50+ for a game, I'll wait till the prices drop, and then evaluate what games are out that I want. That's what I did with the current gen, and I'm glad with my decisions.

[Parathod]

I don't know if you remember Funcoland, but I think I might still have a list to scan. It's amazing how many sequels are actually on the NES. Megaman 1 - 6, Castlevania 1 - 3, Wizards and Warriors 1 - 2, Dragon Warrior 1 - 5, Final Fantasy 1 - 3, Super Mario 1 - 3, Donkey Kong 1 - 3, Contra 1 - 2 (was there a third?), Metal Gear 1 & 2, and i'm sure there were many more. With more games being developed this generation, there's bound to be more sequels, and the reason why they stick out so much is because those are the games that people get excited about. People like to go for the big names because it's tried and true, and because people will buy these games, companies give the directors a higher budget to work with and that includes marketing, playtesting, and showing off the product to industry followers. Other games are being made right now, but whose thinking about Odama or God of War when Resident Evil 4 or Halo 2 are on the way? Original games tend to become popular after they hit the market rather than before. So while everyone wants Mario 64 DS, Wario Ware DS, Animal Crossing DS, and every single Nintendo game DS, eventually one of those weird games that have been announced but no one has really looked into will come out and people will respond, and it will be their turn to come out with a thousand sequels.

[Parathod]

and I agree 100% with BigBen

[hiccupleftovers]

I don't know if you remember Funcoland, but I think I might still have a list to scan. It's amazing how many sequels are actually on the NES. Megaman 1 - 6, Castlevania 1 - 3, Wizards and Warriors 1 - 2, Dragon Warrior 1 - 5, Final Fantasy 1 - 3, Super Mario 1 - 3, Donkey Kong 1 - 3, Contra 1 - 2 (was there a third?), Metal Gear 1 & 2, and i'm sure there were many more. With more games being developed this generation, there's bound to be more sequels, and the reason why they stick out so much is because those are the games that people get excited about. People like to go for the big names because it's tried and true, and because people will buy these games, companies give the directors a higher budget to work with and that includes marketing, playtesting, and showing off the product to industry followers. Other games are being made right now, but whose thinking about Odama or God of War when Resident Evil 4 or Halo 2 are on the way? Original games tend to become popular after they hit the market rather than before. So while everyone wants Mario 64 DS, Wario Ware DS, Animal Crossing DS, and every single Nintendo game DS, eventually one of those weird games that have been announced but no one has really looked into will come out and people will respond, and it will be their turn to come out with a thousand sequels.

Yes, you make sense in retrospect. I think I spoke a little hastily in what I said before. BigBen is correct but it's just that in this gen., it seems that games are getting too repetitive.

[punqsux]

Just because a game is innovative doesn't mean it's a good game. And just because a game isn't "innovative" doesn't mean it's a bad game. A good game is a good game, regardless of it's level of "innovation".


i agree and you dont understand what im saying.
i am not bashing this gens games.
i AM saying i see no reason why a new console would come out in a year or 2

[Indiana]

2d to 3d was a big leap, but i highly doubt 3d (or 2d for that matter) gameplay has been stretched to its limits.

another innovative title i rememberd was wario ware.

It was a big leap. The funny thing is, it wasn't 3D that did it. It was innovation in it's execution. There were plenty of 3D titles on PC and PS and such before the 64 came out. But everyone pretty much recognizes Super Mario 64 as the Grand-daddy of the 3D video game.

On a tangent: Speaking of a game by Shigeru Miyamoto and the game Wario Ware; Miyamoto is considered one of, if not the, most creative and innovative people in the industry. And he has stated how jealous he is of Yoshio Sakamoto for creating Wario Ware. That's a big compliment, IMO, comming from the man. My point being, Nintendo is not the only place innovations are capable of coming from, they are just the ones who try the hardest (and thus succeed most often).

Actually I think Doom is the Gran Daddy of the 3D video game.

[Levizk]

I still feel PC gaming is far beyond console gaming so i'm not really anticipating the next generation of consoles. The main reason they're pushing a new gen out the door is probably so they can release a console that's closer to having the functionality of a pc. That and the game market is probably starting to be less profitable for them now that a huge library of value titles exists on the market for their current systems.

[Levizk]

2d to 3d was a big leap, but i highly doubt 3d (or 2d for that matter) gameplay has been stretched to its limits.

another innovative title i rememberd was wario ware.

It was a big leap. The funny thing is, it wasn't 3D that did it. It was innovation in it's execution. There were plenty of 3D titles on PC and PS and such before the 64 came out. But everyone pretty much recognizes Super Mario 64 as the Grand-daddy of the 3D video game.

On a tangent: Speaking of a game by Shigeru Miyamoto and the game Wario Ware; Miyamoto is considered one of, if not the, most creative and innovative people in the industry. And he has stated how jealous he is of Yoshio Sakamoto for creating Wario Ware. That's a big compliment, IMO, comming from the man. My point being, Nintendo is not the only place innovations are capable of coming from, they are just the ones who try the hardest (and thus succeed most often).

Actually I think Doom is the Gran Daddy of the 3D video game.

Yeah I don't know anyone that thinks Mario 64 is the grand-daddy of the 3d video game. Most people would give that title to Wolfenstein.

[Platypus Stan]

There have always been more bad games than good. Whether or not the ratio is any worse this gen is debatable, but even if it is, there are still more than enough amazing games to go around. Finding the good ones is getting harder, but they're still there.

In fact, I'd say things have been steadily improving over the last few years. Last gen was probably the worst on record as far as I'm concerned. The biggest thing that happened was the leap to 3D, and while some games made the jump gracefully, most did not.

Honestly, how many of last gen's games can you imagine yourself playing years from now? I can only think of about four per console with the Saturn somehow coming out ahead (although only because of some amazing imports). This generation isn't even over yet, and I've got twice that many for all the consoles.

Now, back to the actual topic... no, I'm not terribly excited about the new consoles. I'm curious about what the hell Nintendo is doing over there with this "Revolution", but other than that I'd be fine with the same consoles for another three to five years. I already have a backlog of games that'll hold me over that long even if I never buy a new game after today. If the new consoles can really bring something new to gaming, then I'll be all over them, but it seems like "better graphics" will be the main draw yet again.

[Mafia]

I totally agree. With each generation the shelf time each gen has gotten has shrunk quite a bit, and way too much. The NES launched in the US, I believe, in 1985. It was still a popular console through 1991, when both the SNES and the Genesis were around, and it took until 1994 for Nintendo to stop producing games and accessories for it.

Nowadays, once a new system is launched, the previous is forgotten in about a year. About the only exception to that is the PS1, which still gets the occasional game.

I see one major difference between new systems then and new systems now. The NES held strong for many years and Nintendo didn't seem to push the SNES into the market until the top companies had seemingly gotten everything they possibly could have out of the NES's chipset. I think that the same thing happened with the 16-bit generation. At this point, I don't think companies are really getting every last bit out of the current systems.

I think there is enough untapped potential in the current systems to last another 3 years or so. If they were smart they would wait and spend the extra time to further develop the next generation of consoles. We all know that won't happen, as they see the dollar signs that a new console release generates, but I always wonder if they would make even more money by holding off and not only producing a better product, but also being able to generate a larger buzz since it would have been much longer between new consoles.

[Parathod]

punqsux, I think I know what you were getting at earlier and i'm sorry if I went off on the wrong path because I think I agree with you. I think you're trying to say that games today are becoming homogenous (like everygame needs you to collect stuff, build up your character, have racing missions or minigames, as well as sidequests, and blah blah blah) and that's something that i've noticed as well. I'd like it if more games tried to just focus on one thing and make a solid 8 hour game out of it rather than 40 hours of repititious bullshit. Games are getting harder and harder to finish because of that.

[punqsux]

I'd like it if more games tried to just focus on one thing and make a solid 8 hour game out of it rather than 40 hours of repititious bullshit.

not what i was getting at but a great point! i loved games like ico, max payne, metal gear solid 2, and others like them, because they were very straight forward.

i love jak and daxter but 72 orbs?! thats way too many, i got to like 55 and havent played it in a while...i couldnt stand bg+e because of the boat parts and the fact that you needed those stupid power orbs.

[manofpeace20]

The problem with this generation of consoles can not be placed on one huge factor, but each one has its fair share. Let me begin.

Playstation 2:

The PS2 I believe is maxed out on its potential and the need for the PS3 is great. It was the first to come out in 2000 and it shows. The big thing back then was a DVD player came in it, and I think the developers just threw it together seeing how flimsy the system is with its DDE problems. As for the games, they probably have the most innovative out there, such as Grand Theft Auto and Metal Gear Solid, not to mention their wide arsenal of RPGs the system has. I just think its time for a software update, and they should be first to get it.

Gamecube:

We all should have known with the N64 what the Gamecube's problem would be: lack of games. I can seriously count on one hand the number of interesting games I played on the Gamecube. However, a true dud is a far rarer find than on the other two consoles. The fact that Gamecube is not trying to update its technology to keep up with other consoles (online play, hard drives) leads me to believe they will not last in the console battles. However, I could be wrong. Nintendo is the last true innovator out there.

XBOX:

This is my favorite system out of the 3, but there is one major problem. They SHOULD NOT release a new console for at least 2 or 3 years. The system was released in 2001, but seemingly didn't start catching on until late 2003. I look at this 2004 fourth quarter, and nearly every game I could dream of is coming on the XBOX. The current system is loaded with potential, and its newer games just amaze me.

[punqsux]

Playstation 2:
The PS2 I believe is maxed out on its potential and the need for the PS3 is great.
why do you say that?

Gamecube:
The fact that Gamecube is not trying to update its technology to keep up with other consoles (online play, hard drives) leads me to believe they will not last in the console battles. However, I could be wrong. Nintendo is the last true innovator out there.

hard drives and online play have done little to nil for console gaming. yes xbox and ps2 have sucessful online plans, but online is more a diffrent option in most games...hard drives are good for game saves and piracy, cant imagine why nintendo wouldnt want this ^^

XBOX:
The current system is loaded with potential, and its newer games just amaze me.
alll current systems are loaded with potential...

[friedram]

Okama Game Sphere!

[Backlash]

There is no way any of the 3 current gen consoles has maxed out its potential.

As a historic example, look at the SNES. Compare the first games (e.g. Pilotwings, F-zero) with the last games (e.g. Donkey Kong Country 3). You can hardly believe they're on the same system!

[Jaxcomet]

I am not ready to move on, because college is expensive, and I don't want to shell out the cash for new systems!


It really does seem that as the systems become more advanced and more expensive the age of target audience actually rises. Who can most afford a $300 system? Not kids, not high school or college students........

[Platypus Stan]

Playstation 2:

The PS2 I believe is maxed out on its potential and the need for the PS3 is great. It was the first to come out in 2000 and it shows. The big thing back then was a DVD player came in it, and I think the developers just threw it together seeing how flimsy the system is with its DDE problems. As for the games, they probably have the most innovative out there, such as Grand Theft Auto and Metal Gear Solid, not to mention their wide arsenal of RPGs the system has. I just think its time for a software update, and they should be first to get it.

I wouldn't say it's maxed out just yet, since newer PS2 games can still blow people away (GT4). However, the console has definitely saturated the market. Just about everyone on the planet who'd be interested in it already owns one. I'm sure Sony is eager to get something new on the market, especially since it will supposedly be backwards compatible and feature their proprietary format (Blu-ray) which they're going to be pushing hard to get into as many homes as possible.

Gamecube:

We all should have known with the N64 what the Gamecube's problem would be: lack of games. I can seriously count on one hand the number of interesting games I played on the Gamecube. However, a true dud is a far rarer find than on the other two consoles. The fact that Gamecube is not trying to update its technology to keep up with other consoles (online play, hard drives) leads me to believe they will not last in the console battles. However, I could be wrong. Nintendo is the last true innovator out there.

:? How hard have you been looking for GameCube games? I'd say it's easily surpassed the Nintendo 64 in quantity of games worth playing, and although I own far more games for my other systems, the GameCube edges them out for the overall experience so far.

Anyway, I think the GameCube has a lot of life left in it, and I think there are still quite a few people out there who have shyed away from buying one for whatever reason. Still, I'm interested to see what Nintendo has up their sleeve, since they claim that both the Revolution and the GameCube will be supported side by side.

XBOX:

This is my favorite system out of the 3, but there is one major problem. They SHOULD NOT release a new console for at least 2 or 3 years. The system was released in 2001, but seemingly didn't start catching on until late 2003. I look at this 2004 fourth quarter, and nearly every game I could dream of is coming on the XBOX. The current system is loaded with potential, and its newer games just amaze me.

I don't quite understand Microsoft's eagerness to get to market first with a new console. There are plenty of potential Xbox owners out there and Xbox games will continue to be the most visually striking (usually). They've put a lot of effort into being perceived as the most advanced console, so I imagine they don't want a competitor's new console outdoing them for any period of time while they finish working on their own new console. Also, I'm sure they realize the absurd amount of piracy that's going on, so perhaps they're eager to get a system on the market that implements a security measure or two.

It really does seem that as the systems become more advanced and more expensive the age of target audience actually rises. Who can most afford a $300 system? Not kids, not high school or college students........

If you take inflation into account, the Atari 2600 cost over $600, the NES cost about $350 - $425 depending on the package, the Genesis cost around $300, etc...

[Reality's Fringe]

I haven't read through this thread, but if anyone thinks that I can in any way, shape, or form NOT be anticipating the Nintendo DS; you're fucking nuts.