View Full Version : Upgrade from regular 360 to an Elite 40$ (YMMV)
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 12:41 AM
At Gamestop you can trade in your regular old xbox 360 + a wireless controller for 100$ and get an xbox 360 elite + wireless controller for 140$ (40$ after the 100 for your old)
Basically you can trade in your old beat up xbox 360 for a nice refurbished xbox 360 elite for 40$.
(Both are without hard drives since your old hard drive will work fine in the elite)
Put YMMV since the trade in values may vary.
Figured this deserves its own thread since trading in an old beatup system for an refurbished elite for 40$ is DEFINITELY worth it.
Shimrra
01-21-2010, 12:43 AM
Interesting I am tempted to break my vow of never shopping at GS/EB store.
Diebythesword
01-21-2010, 12:46 AM
Sounds interesting, too bad mine got the RROD
Also what game is that in your sig Shimrra?
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 12:48 AM
First time I shopped at a gamestop in a long time.
But knowing that they are walking away with my original xbox 360 (things almost 5 years old) and I got an elite that is literally brand new (there was still plastic on the infrared ports and on the back of the wireless controller) for a mere 40$ makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside
Donnums
01-21-2010, 12:48 AM
Eh, if it included a 120gig hard drive, I might consider stepping into Crookstop again but seeing as it'd just be a console swap, it's not worth it AT ALL to me..you'd also have to transfer over all your licenses too.
I WISH it was "Trade in your 20gb hard drive, get a 120gb for $40". I would've definitely done that.
shrike4242
01-21-2010, 12:48 AM
I wouldn't necessarily call the Elite you'd be getting "nice" when it comes to a GS refurbished system.
Plus, you'd be a fool not to get their extended warranty on it, since it's only a 90 day warranty on a refurb from them. You need to figure that into the "cost" of the "upgrade".
malfuncti0n
01-21-2010, 12:51 AM
without hard drives? that's dumb. you'll be trading for color preference then.
iNFiNiTE HORiZON
01-21-2010, 12:52 AM
this is a terrible deal...
trade them my naked console plus 40 dollars for their naked console?
dgwillia006
01-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Seriously, i remember when i traded in my old 360, due to some sale GS was having, i only had to pay like 70 dollars to get a brand new arcade that came with like 2 free games, internal memory, and a few XBLA games pre-loaded on it.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 12:54 AM
If you have an older console thats starting to have problems its a fantastic deal.
Especially if you have an original xbox 360. The original xbox 360s sound like jet engines compared to this thing, dont have hdmi, and run WAY hotter/burn out faster.
Fighterspledge
01-21-2010, 12:56 AM
Yeah I still have a first gen system without HDMI ports, and the thing sounds like its about to take flight every time I start it up.
I'll get the extended warranty too, I got my money's worth out of the system. But I hope that this applies to my area too.
Donnums
01-21-2010, 12:57 AM
Also, you guys may want to think twice about buying a "refurb" from them after Microsoft's massive banning of modded consoles. I don't know what Gamestop has done to assure they aren't banned but it'd really bite you in the ass if you traded it a 360 to get a banned one for $40.
OP: What makes you think you are going to get an elite out of the trade in? The system you will get is located here: http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=69349
No where does it indicate what kind of Xbox you will be getting. For all you know, you will be getting an old Zephyr chipset without an HDMI (it comes with standard AV cables)
On top of that, this isn't even a Microsoft refurbed unit, this is a Gamestop refurbed unit. Buyer beware, but if you do go for this, get the protection plan because my money is you will be using it before the year is up
EDIT: *Due to varying systems layouts HDMI port may or may not be available.* Have fun trading in your on-its-way out 360 for another old on-its-way out 360
Reimu
01-21-2010, 12:57 AM
I'm assuming they wouldn't accept a console with RRoD, right?
ProtoEXE88
01-21-2010, 12:58 AM
It's tempting, but do the GS refurbs still have the 3 year RRoD warranty, or does the refurb void that?
Nebenator
01-21-2010, 01:00 AM
Got excited when I read the title because my 60gb is almost full. After reading the details I'm wondering why someone would pay $40 for a painted and refurbished version of the 360 he or she already has? Maybe if your 360 is dead, but it may be cheaper to just buy extended warranty.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:00 AM
OP: What makes you think you are going to get an elite out of the trade in? The system you will get is located here: http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=69349
No where does it indicate what kind of Xbox you will be getting. For all you know, you will be getting an old Zephyr chipset without an HDMI (it comes with standard AV cables)
On top of that, this isn't even a Microsoft refurbed unit, this is a Gamestop refurbed unit. Buyer beware, but if you do go for this, get the protection plan because my money is you will be using it before the year is up
You go into the store or call them and ask.
I just did this deal TODAY. I brought in a 360 that I bought on launch which is starting to freeze on occasion, and walked out with a near BRAND NEW xbox 360 elite.
You go into the store or call them and ask.
I just did this deal TODAY. I brought in a 360 that I bought on launch which is starting to freeze on occasion, and walked out with a near BRAND NEW xbox 360 elite.
A gamestop refurbished system is nowhere near a BRAND NEW 360 elite brotha. Remeber, they were traded in for a reason, they were broken once
Fighterspledge
01-21-2010, 01:04 AM
You go into the store or call them and ask.
I just did this deal TODAY. I brought in a 360 that I bought on launch which is starting to freeze on occasion, and walked out with a near BRAND NEW xbox 360 elite.
Just hoping for more information on how the entire event went. Did you get to pick out your system? Did you check out the plug for the chipset type? How should I expect the trade to go if I decided to do this tomorrow?
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:05 AM
A gamestop refurbished system is nowhere near a BRAND NEW 360 elite brotha. Remeber, they were traded in for a reason, they were broken once
Manufactured date 9-16-2009 (says right on the back of the unit)
Thats brand new baby
MICROSOFT WARRANTY Expires 03/01/2011
Manufactured date 9-16-2009 (says right on the back of the unit)
Thats brand new baby
MICROSOFT WARRANTY Expires 03/01/2011
Again, it was traded in because it was broken at some point. So grats on having a newer Xbox that failed in its first few months of play...
wreckemtexastech
01-21-2010, 01:08 AM
A gamestop refurbished system is nowhere near a BRAND NEW 360 elite brotha. Remeber, they were traded in for a reason, they were broken once
ouch! sloppy seconds..
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:08 AM
Just hoping for more information on how the entire event went. Did you get to pick out your system? Did you check out the plug for the chipset type? How should I expect the trade to go if I decided to do this tomorrow?
I just looked at the manufactured date on the back of the console. This thing was created less than 4 months ago.
And you can punch in the serial # on the microsoft website to see when their warranty last until (mine last another 14 months)
The only thing you might have to do is remind them about the 20$ trade in bonus for trading in consoles (which is on their website)
And the YMMV is going to be whether they have elites in stock (you can call and ask) and how much they give for the old systems. The guy told me gamestops all just raised the cash theyre giving in for trade ins because they sold all their inventory during christmas.
mkelehan
01-21-2010, 01:08 AM
Xbox 360 hardware is as reliable as a 15 year old condom: You'll have plenty of fun for a while, but it's way safer to buy new.
msdmoney
01-21-2010, 01:09 AM
This is tempting, especially because I have an older 360 that doesn't have hdmi, is really loud, and has RROD'd 2 or 3 times already. Is there still a RROD warranty on these?
Edit: Looks like you already mentioned the warranty.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:10 AM
Again, it was traded in because it was broken at some point. So grats on having a newer Xbox that failed in its first few months of play...
My old Xbox 360 was bought on the day the system came out (Nov 22, 2005)
It had more than its share of problems.
Eitherway its covered by microsofts warranty for another 15 months.
If you shop around you can DEFINITELY get an excellent deal on this
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:11 AM
This is tempting, especially because I have an older 360 that doesn't have hdmi, is really loud, and has RROD'd 2 or 3 times already. Is there still a RROD warranty on these?
You can punch in the serial # on the back of the xbox 360 into microsofts website and find out. The unit I bought has another 15 months of FULL warranty left (microsofts warranty) plus the RROD warranty.
Also I think the RROD warranty goes from manufacturers date (you can find out exactly how long it last on google), and the date is on the back of the console.
If you do this deal smart you win.
Frosty The Batman
01-21-2010, 01:13 AM
My 360 RROD'd on my a few weeks back. I tried the towel trick via youtube, thanks Cheapy D, and it worked for a few days. Maybe on Friday I'll have to try this again... Seems wrong though.
Mospeada_21
01-21-2010, 01:16 AM
pass....
refurb? might as well go buy a used condom. yeah, GameStop wants you to take it up the rear alright.
Frosty The Batman
01-21-2010, 01:17 AM
Where do you punch in the serial number on the Microsoft site? I'd rather send it to them if it's still under warranty.
icedrake523
01-21-2010, 01:18 AM
I have an old model (bought it summer 2006. RROD'd and got it replaced). So it would be nice to have HDMI but it's not really worth it for $40.
If your 360 is actively RRoD then I would bake it and jump on this deal. If your 360 doesn't have any problems, then you are special for trading in a working 360 so you can get a GS refurbished 360 and throw 40 dollars away.
Just don't get mad when your 360 RRoD when they are testing it!
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:19 AM
Where do you punch in the serial number on the Microsoft site? I'd rather send it to them if it's still under warranty.
https://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/registerdevice.aspx?step=repair
You have to log in using a windows ID, hit register a new console punch in the serial # and it tells you when youre covered to. Seems to be about 18 months after the manufactured date
trogoldito
01-21-2010, 01:20 AM
Do they test the system we trade in to see if it is banned? My 360 was banned a year ago so this would be a pretty damn good deal if they don't check.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 01:21 AM
Do they test the system we trade in to see if it is banned? My 360 was banned a year ago so this would be a pretty damn good deal if they don't check.
They did not for me.
They throw in a game and ask you to play it for 5 minutes.
If it doesnt blow up or anything youre in.
Donnums
01-21-2010, 01:23 AM
Do they test the system we trade in to see if it is banned? My 360 was banned a year ago so this would be a pretty damn good deal if they don't check.
Doubt it as they'd have to be able to hook it up to the internet somewhere in their store to see if it'll connect to Live.
This is exactly why this isn't a good deal - What's to stop EVERYONE who has a banned console to trade theirs in? Someone who has an unbanned console can go in, blow $40 and find out their system is banned from Live.
Frosty The Batman
01-21-2010, 01:25 AM
Thanks for the quick response. Says it's out of warranty but also says it's free when I selected 3 red lights. Will have to mull it over. Thinking of just towel tricking to play Mass Effect 2 then getting an Arcade system new with tax money.
Mobb One
01-21-2010, 02:02 AM
If you have an older console thats starting to have problems its a fantastic deal.
Especially if you have an original xbox 360. The original xbox 360s sound like jet engines compared to this thing, dont have hdmi, and run WAY hotter/burn out faster.
yeah that's exactly my 360. i'm replaying mass effect and it has def frozen, lagged, or disc errored more times this play around than it did back when i played it in 2007. My machine has never gotten a red ring though, but still the graphics are pretty poor on my 42" plasma compared with my ps3 due to no hdmi. i'll have to check my gamestop. it's just 2 blocks away.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:09 AM
Not to mention you get to replace your xbox 360 controller.
I know my wireless controller was beat up to all hell, had buttons jamming, scuff marks all over, the plastic on the thumbpads was starting to fall off.
And now I got a virtually brand new black elite wireless controller.
KacieCross
01-21-2010, 02:10 AM
I would be in for this if my cash flow was not reserved currently for Mass Effect 2. I bought my 360 refurbed from Gamestop a little over a year ago. It's clearly a launch system, though I've yet to have a problem with it. It's not even particularly loud. However, I would like one with an HDMI port on it and getting one that's still under warranty would make me breathe a lot easier.
killer9
01-21-2010, 02:10 AM
horrible deal never ever ever buy refurbished 360's no matter what unless u buy a warranty
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:16 AM
horrible deal never ever ever buy refurbished 360's no matter what unless u buy a warranty
Or unless they are still covered by Microsofts FULL warranty which you can check
orcishlad
01-21-2010, 02:18 AM
Pretty good deal if you don't have an HDMI port on your 360.
Thanks for the heads up.
killer9
01-21-2010, 02:19 AM
and if they are not?
you say yours is covered for 15 months plus the rrod warranty but ms warranty is only 1 year with rrod and e74 being covered for 3
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:21 AM
and if they are not?
you say yours is covered for 15 months plus the rrod warranty but ms warranty is only 1 year with rrod and e74 being covered for 3
If they are not you dont buy it.
You can pull it up online easily on Microsofts own website And I have no idea. On the xbox 360 page of microsofts it says warranty is covered until 3/1/2011 (system created 9/09)
Maybe the elites have a longer warranty
orcishlad
01-21-2010, 02:21 AM
and if they are not?
you say yours is covered for 15 months plus the rrod warranty but ms warranty is only 1 year with rrod and e74 being covered for 3
I'm not sure about the e74 warranty, but RRoD warranty is 3 years. I think you're getting mixed up.
tominater12
01-21-2010, 02:23 AM
You would have to be an idiot to buy a used 360 especially at gamestop. When my 360 got the e74 error(and before microsoft covered it) gamestop actually took it and gave me an extra $20 for being in such "good" condition. The moral of this story is do not buy used 360s that is all.
killer9
01-21-2010, 02:27 AM
I'm not sure about the e74 warranty, but RRoD warranty is 3 years. I think you're getting mixed up.
im not mixed up son i have owned 6 xbox 360's
ms warranty is 3 years for rrod and e74
1 year for everything else believe me im well versed on ms warranties
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:29 AM
I have no idea why it says warranty expires march 2011 then ><
killer9
01-21-2010, 02:32 AM
dont know im thinking you got extremely lucky but this would be very ymmv i checked the website they dont even show backordered elites on there anymore
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:39 AM
Oh def put YMMV in the title from the start lol.
And yeah they dont list them as elites on the website.
They fall under http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=69349
Same price same package same deal.
The guy says since it doesnt come with a hard drive they consider a elite to have the same value as a regular system.
Only way to find out if they have them is to call or check
reddjoey
01-21-2010, 02:43 AM
Also from my experience, unless you are the first person the register the console with MS, the warranty is voided. I know as a bought my roommate's elite and have to fight MS on the warranty. (It's was manufactured 8/08 and the warranty expired 7/09)
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 02:47 AM
Well worst case scenario they offer 1 year warranty for 20$
So you pay $40 to trade your white X360 into black x360 amd you think that you get a good deal???
WuGgaRoO
01-21-2010, 02:55 AM
So you pay $40 to trade your white X360 into black x360 amd you think that you get a good deal???
in all honesty, i would much rather have a jasper arcade than an older non-jasper elite
DemonGamer24
01-21-2010, 02:57 AM
So you pay $40 to trade your white X360 into black x360 amd you think that you get a good deal???
Do some of you not understand that some people in the world have one of the crappy, old 360 model, which no longer has a warranty and it's likely to break soon? I would fucking love to trade in my old PoS for a much newer system, which could potentially still be under MS warrant (HDMI doesn't hurt either).
killer9
01-21-2010, 03:01 AM
just saying trade in your old one for 100 and add another 100 and get a jasper arcade better all around deal imo
chances are high you'll be getting a banned console, unless of course you're trading back a banned console, then roll the dice!
Otherwise unless you're real desperate i'd stay away from this one. Kinda funny how M$ hits with a banhammer 3 months ago and Gamestop has an influx of 360's. Now that the bans have slowed to a crawl they'll take unbanned consoles for banned ones.
I like how this coincides with the release of the new Ixtreme fw too.
Too many shades of shady for me.
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 03:18 AM
Id assume if gamestop sells you a banned console you could easily return it.?
arrrggghhh
01-21-2010, 04:39 AM
Can anyone say exactly how much quieter the elites are to the older version?
Apathetic-Irony
01-21-2010, 04:52 AM
This is a great deal for people with OOW 360's.
wolverinevseveryone
01-21-2010, 05:00 AM
It's not even worth buying a used Xbox 360 especially with the RROD failure rate with the launch Elites. Do you guys really think saving $30-40 bucks is worth the hassle? YOU CANNOT TRUST GAMESTOP AT ALL WHEN BUYING A SYSTEM, PERIOD!!! I've been through 5-6 systems and gave up on Xbox 360 and now I'm happy with my PS3 launch system which is going on 3+ years now.
mediviper
01-21-2010, 05:01 AM
Xbox 360 hardware is as reliable as a 15 year old condom: You'll have plenty of fun for a while, but it's way safer to buy new.
Its sad and scary that this is your point of reference. Soooooo congrats on the baby?
IAmTheCheapestGamer
01-21-2010, 05:14 AM
:lol::lol: This topic is just full of win. From the Gamestop refurbished cracks to the comparisons of buying a used console to a 15 yr old condom.:D
Chris_GTR1
01-21-2010, 05:17 AM
whats the point of trading in a 360 for another one ....oh... maybe like this i can trade my banned 360 for an unbanned one.
bigdogn12
01-21-2010, 05:40 AM
Is there any way to check if an Xbox 360 is banned through any online site? If so, I'd bring my original Xbox 360 Premium (no HDMI) with my laptop and tethered to my phone so I can check on the spot if the Xbox I'm trading for is legit.
Tamizander
01-21-2010, 06:07 AM
Oh my GOD - the people who aren't thinking and coming into this thread typing crap.
You trade your OLDER 360 that is having problems, but plays (loud fan, occasional freezing, way out of warranty) for a possibly NEWER 360 (possibly elite, HDMI port, still under Microsoft warranty, possibly not having problems) plus $40.
Then, see the YMMV and voila! there is your thread. Yes, you might not get an Elite (call before!) and you might get something with a problem (get the extended warranty!), but you MAY get ahead nice on this deal.
Malik112099
01-21-2010, 08:05 AM
Manufactured date 9-16-2009 (says right on the back of the unit)
Thats brand new baby
MICROSOFT WARRANTY Expires 03/01/2011
That is correct unless the unit was purchased, red ringed and then traded into Gamestop after recieving a MS refurb. The MS refurb only has a 90 day warranty and you don't know when that would have gone into effect. You don't know the history of the console. Clear plastic over the IR reciever doesnt mean shit. But, whatever helps you sleep at night....
Malik112099
01-21-2010, 08:12 AM
Oh my GOD - the people who aren't thinking and coming into this thread typing crap.
You trade your OLDER 360 that is having problems...for a possibly NEWER 360...plus $40.
Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
Tell you what. I'll make you a deal. I have 2 xbox 360's purchased about 3 years apart. You give me $30 and your 360 and I will randomly pick one of my 2 and send it to you. You don't know the history of either of them or the SKU. You give me money and I give you a random xbox known this gen for dying on people which I may or may not have personally refurbished. Oh and to make yourself feel better I will give you a personal 90 day warranty and you can refer to me as "Gamestop" through the duration of this deal.
This is a moron's deal.
DAWG26
01-21-2010, 08:21 AM
Dont they let you return before 7 days is up? Keep the receipt and if its a banned console you can take it back. Am I right?
PlayerXXX
01-21-2010, 08:22 AM
$40 for a color change? Well, i can see it if your Xbox is giving you problems and not in warranty anymore to get fixed, but otherwise, I think you can do better than this.
Malik112099
01-21-2010, 08:22 AM
Or unless they are still covered by Microsofts FULL warranty which you can check
NONE of Gamestop's refurbished consoles are covered by Microsoft's warranty.
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=69349
Note GameStop refurbished systems are not covered by a manufacturer warranty. Normal GameStop return policy applies.
http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/Hardware/Warranty/Warranty/ProductWarrantyNew.aspx
A. WARRANTIES
One Year Express Warranty on Console (Three Years for Three Lights Flashing Red).
Subject to the terms and conditions of this Limited Warranty, Microsoft warrants to you only (the original retail purchaser) that, during the Warranty Period and under normal use and service, the Xbox Console will substantially conform with the printed user instruction materials packaged with the Console.
/thread
Friend of Sonic
01-21-2010, 08:45 AM
Well, if the first person who owned it didn't register it, you should be good for the warranty. I get what you're saying, but I don't think you earned the "/thread" quite yet.
I have a feeling Gamestop adds that piece about their systems not qualifying for warranty since most people register their consoles.
Malik112099
01-21-2010, 08:54 AM
Well, if the first person who owned it didn't register it, you should be good for the warranty. I get what you're saying, but I don't think you earned the "/thread" quite yet.
I have a feeling Gamestop adds that piece about their systems not qualifying for warranty since most people register their consoles.
or maybe Gamestop provides MS with the console ID's of the units they refurb....
either way "by the rules" the Xbox does NOT have a Microsoft warranty intact.
If you are able to have MS honor it then good on you, but that is def YMMV and isnt worth me risking it
EDIT: also, if Gamestop is doing refurbs themselves they have to open the systems and remove the QC stickers which voids the MS warranty. Do they replace those stickers with the same ones MS uses or do they use their own?
mikejenks
01-21-2010, 09:09 AM
chances are high you'll be getting a banned console, unless of course you're trading back a banned console, then roll the dice!
What if you have a 360 out of warranty that RROD's constantly, but the towel trick gets it to work for bits at a time? MS will send you a refurb for $100, so I'd say $40 isn't a bad deal.
bryenfury
01-21-2010, 09:11 AM
As long as the xbox is not registered then the warranty is valid. (provided it's within 3 years for 3rings and E74)
Take it from the guy that has had 100 xbox 360's go through here.
I've always had the luck of 3 of every 10 systems not being registered and got free repairs from MS.
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 09:58 AM
hmm.... I may do this since I own the adapter for my old 360 to make it HDMI and it washes out the whites... Hmmm.... what do you think the chances are of the new 360 being black... cause I want it to match the rest of my audio video case... My PS3 is black and my stand is black, my Harmon Kardon is black and my cable box and line conditioner are also black. I have this big "white Zit" that needs to be popped I think!
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 10:04 AM
hmmm... does anyone else also know if you can use your edge card when trading in the system... and do you need your old battery case for the back of the controller?
maxfisher
01-21-2010, 10:07 AM
As long as the xbox is not registered then the warranty is valid. (provided it's within 3 years for 3rings and E74)
Take it from the guy that has had 100 xbox 360's go through here.
I've always had the luck of 3 of every 10 systems not being registered and got free repairs from MS.
According to Microsoft's terms, you're required to submit a copy of the purchase receipt if you send in an unregistered console. They also expressly state that their warranty will not apply to consoles that people buy used. You may have gotten lucky, but their terms certainly don't back up what you're saying. And even if Microsoft completely let it slide as you state, you're still basically saying it's only going to work 30% of the time.
So far as I know, the only way for an Xbox warranty to be transferred to a new owner is if the original owner had registered it and calls Microsoft prior to the purchase. I did this when I sold my original Xbox and they gave me a form to fill out with my info and the info of the buyer and transferred the warranty over to him.
Shimrra
01-21-2010, 10:16 AM
NONE of Gamestop's refurbished consoles are covered by Microsoft's warranty.
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=69349
http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/Hardware/Warranty/Warranty/ProductWarrantyNew.aspx
/thread
Well this further cements my stance and will not be stepping into GS store.
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 11:01 AM
This thread is quickly turning into people trying to fraud a company which (last time I checked) is not supposed to be discussed on these forums.
I agree... I am sure though that if you do trade in a system that is banned you will be tracked down and forced to make reparations.
linkmon
01-21-2010, 11:10 AM
At Gamestop you can trade in your regular old xbox 360 + a wireless controller for 100$ and get an xbox 360 elite + wireless controller for 140$ (40$ after the 100 for your old)
Basically you can trade in your old beat up xbox 360 for a nice refurbished xbox 360 elite for 40$.
(Both are without hard drives since your old hard drive will work fine in the elite)
Put YMMV since the trade in values may vary.
Figured this deserves its own thread since trading in an old beatup system for an refurbished elite for 40$ is DEFINITELY worth it.
So, your trading your old system (Which in my case works perfectly) for a new "OLD' Elite for $40. Another GS anal rape job.
OzzySS
01-21-2010, 11:20 AM
Ok so this is what Gamestop told me when I called. When you trade your system in for a refurb, you dont know what you're getting. All the refurbs are sitting in a box sealed until they are sold. They just grab which ever one, and that one is yours. Employees are unable to open the sealed refurb boxed until they are sold. So for all you know you are trading your system in for the exact same 360.
For anyone who has done this already, how did your experience go? How did you KNOW you were getting an elite?
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 11:35 AM
Ok so this is what Gamestop told me when I called. When you trade your system in for a refurb, you dont know what you're getting. All the refurbs are sitting in a box sealed until they are sold. They just grab which ever one, and that one is yours. Employees are unable to open the sealed refurb boxed until they are sold. So for all you know you are trading your system in for the exact same 360.
For anyone who has done this already, how did your experience go? How did you KNOW you were getting an elite?
When I called the guy went digging through the boxes in the back for me.
Although I was just asking for a 360 with an hdmi output, and the guy happened to say they have elites for the same price. Guess it depends what employee answers your phone.
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 11:44 AM
correct i got the same answer as well.
OzzySS
01-21-2010, 11:45 AM
So my gamestop has 2 refurbs, do I bite the bullet? Neither of which may even be an elite. I have a launch 360, which red ringed once, and got replaced my Microsoft. Since then nothing has gone wrong, sans the disc read errors which happen about once out of every 4 times I play it. I would like HDMI, and the noise alone makes me not wanna play my xbox. Decisions, decisions...
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 11:48 AM
question though... do all the elites have the same chip set? Will it run quieter as well?
elessar123
01-21-2010, 11:50 AM
That is correct unless the unit was purchased, red ringed and then traded into Gamestop after recieving a MS refurb. The MS refurb only has a 90 day warranty and you don't know when that would have gone into effect. You don't know the history of the console. Clear plastic over the IR reciever doesnt mean shit. But, whatever helps you sleep at night....
lol my 18 month old 360 still has the plastic over the IR receiver, now that you mention it.
Access_Denied
01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
If anybody is thinking about this, think twice. I've gotten two refurbished 360s from Gamestop. One lasted about 15 minutes before a red ring, one lasted a day. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
deejayfiggy
01-21-2010, 12:45 PM
This is a little off topic, but how much does GS give you for a used/non banned 360 System with controller and HD? I have a first generation one that is very loud! No RROD or anything...but I was thinking of getting a new elite at Amazon for $293 (includes $50 amazon gift cert). Do they give you $100 for used systems? I saw some special on the GS website that says they are giving an EXTRA $20 on systems right now too.
Has anyone done this? I would be trading in old system, headset, controller, power supply, component cables, 120gb hard drive. Or am I better off just trying to eBay it?
Malik112099
01-21-2010, 12:50 PM
This is a little off topic, but how much does GS give you for a used/non banned 360 System with controller and HD? I have a first generation one that is very loud! No RROD or anything...but I was thinking of getting a new elite at Amazon for $293 (includes $50 amazon gift cert). Do they give you $100 for used systems? I saw some special on the GS website that says they are giving an EXTRA $20 on systems right now too.
Has anyone done this? I would be trading in old system, headset, controller, power supply, component cables, 120gb hard drive. Or am I better off just trying to eBay it?
that value is for store credit..they give you much less for cash trade ins
deejayfiggy
01-21-2010, 12:56 PM
that value is for store credit..they give you much less for cash trade ins
Well, the website has it for $299.99 with the 2 free games, and says "free $50 coupon code" so I assume that if you buy an elite in store you still get the $50 coupon/gift card?
mtxbass1
01-21-2010, 12:58 PM
Well, the website has it for $299.99 with the 2 free games, and says "free $50 coupon code" so I assume that if you buy an elite in store you still get the $50 coupon/gift card?
Yes, you will.
The bare system trades for $70 with the wireless controller. A headset gets like $2-3. The 20GB drive gets about $11. There is a $20 bump on trading in the system until Jan 24.
tattoojeep
01-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Yes, you will.
The bare system trades for $70 with the wireless controller. A headset gets like $2-3. The 20GB drive gets about $11. There is a $20 bump on trading in the system until Jan 24.
actually the bare system gets your 80 with one wireless controller and no hard drive. Add 20 for the trade in credit and there you have your 100
deejayfiggy
01-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Yes, you will.
The bare system trades for $70 with the wireless controller. A headset gets like $2-3. The 20GB drive gets about $11. There is a $20 bump on trading in the system until Jan 24.
Cool, thanks for the info. What I will probably do is take in the system and headset...and eBay the 120gb hard drive. With the extra $20 bump and the $50 gift card (for buying new system), I'm basically getting the elite for around $150 or so...even less after I sell the 120gb HD. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.
Do some of you not understand that some people in the world have one of the crappy, old 360 model, which no longer has a warranty and it's likely to break soon? I would fucking love to trade in my old PoS for a much newer system, which could potentially still be under MS warrant (HDMI doesn't hurt either).
lmao.
if you only trade your X360 to GS because it's likely to break soon, do you think other people will trade their X360 in good condition for $ 80 or $ 100 store credit ??? You'll most likely get a POS too since a lot of people are like you, only traded when there is something wrong with it.
And just fyi, Gamestop only refurb a system that being traded as broken system (you'll get $ 40 less the last time I check, so $ 40 store credit for a broken x360). And it's not Microsoft factory refurb.
And the system that they tested for 2 - 5 minutes, is put back straight to their inventory. And most of us know the towel trick right?
Getting $100 credit is very good for your old x360.. but don't use it to buy another POS... use it toward a new system!
Tamizander
01-21-2010, 01:28 PM
Sounds like a shitty deal to me.
Tell you what. I'll make you a deal. I have 2 xbox 360's purchased about 3 years apart. You give me $30 and your 360 and I will randomly pick one of my 2 and send it to you. You don't know the history of either of them or the SKU. You give me money and I give you a random xbox known this gen for dying on people which I may or may not have personally refurbished. Oh and to make yourself feel better I will give you a personal 90 day warranty and you can refer to me as "Gamestop" through the duration of this deal.
This is a moron's deal.
Did you read?
If you have one that is already having problems, and you get the extended warranty, this MAY be a deal for you. Of course, you may get shafted, which is why this is YMMV.
deejayfiggy
01-21-2010, 01:31 PM
lmao.
if you only trade your X360 to GS because it's likely to break soon, do you think other people will trade their X360 in good condition for $ 80 or $ 100 store credit ??? You'll most likely get a POS too since a lot of people are like you, only traded when there is something wrong with it.
And just fyi, Gamestop only refurb a system that being traded as broken system (you'll get $ 40 less the last time I check, so $ 40 store credit for a broken x360). And it's not Microsoft factory refurb.
And the system that they tested for 2 - 5 minutes, is put back straight to their inventory. And most of us know the towel trick right?
Getting $100 credit is very good for your old x360.. but don't use it to buy another POS... use it toward a new system!
Yeah, like I said...a NEW elite bundle for $150 sounds pretty good. The only other unknown there is, is if you can use the "$50 coupon code/gift card" on the new system itself. You have to buy a system to get it, so I would hope that they just let me instantly apply it towards the system itself...making it less $50.
Yeah, like I said...a NEW elite bundle for $150 sounds pretty good. The only other unknown there is, is if you can use the "$50 coupon code/gift card" on the new system itself. You have to buy a system to get it, so I would hope that they just let me instantly apply it towards the system itself...making it less $50.
You spend $300, you get an elite and $50 credit (the receipt shows you paid $250 for the Elite and $50 for the gift card).
If you already have the 120gb hd, why not just settle for the arcade? This way you are guaranteed a Jasper.
Option 1:
Trade in 360 + $200 = Elite + $50 credit (sell 120gb hd on ebay for $50 after ebay fees...yeah, I just looked, they aren't going for much)
With this option, you are out $150 cash and have a $50 GC to GS
Option 2:
Trade in 360 + $100 = Arcade
Use your current 120gb hd and you essentially have an Elite and are only out $100 cash
If you have the extra credit at GS, then by all means get the elite.
kirby145
01-21-2010, 03:08 PM
Lol I'm going to go trade in my beautiful white 360 for a nasty black one that is banned from xbox live
Not
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 03:16 PM
To check if its a Jasper you can just check the power voltage on the back of the system before you buy it.(along with the manufactured date)
deejayfiggy
01-21-2010, 03:18 PM
You spend $300, you get an elite and $50 credit (the receipt shows you paid $250 for the Elite and $50 for the gift card).
If you already have the 120gb hd, why not just settle for the arcade? This way you are guaranteed a Jasper.
Option 1:
Trade in 360 + $200 = Elite + $50 credit (sell 120gb hd on ebay for $50 after ebay fees...yeah, I just looked, they aren't going for much)
With this option, you are out $150 cash and have a $50 GC to GS
Option 2:
Trade in 360 + $100 = Arcade
Use your current 120gb hd and you essentially have an Elite and are only out $100 cash
If you have the extra credit at GS, then by all means get the elite.
Thanks for the breakdown buddy! For some reason, I was thinking that the Arcade DIDN'T have HDMI...that only the elite did. The arcade doesn't come with the 2 games (who cares) and the $50 in credit...but that seems like a better deal. Spend $100 and get a system with HDMI, Jasper, and doesn't sound like a 747 jet airplane when I play it!
I've got a regular 360 with a 20G hard drive. What advantage does the Elite have over the regular 360? I thought you were basically paying for the bigger HD. Does it run quieter or anything? Thanks!
jcp42877
01-21-2010, 04:39 PM
Would it be wise to trade in my fairly new Jasper arcade unit for an Elite? My old Halo console went E74 mid-September, so I went out the next day to Best Buy and bought an arcade hands down.
I would like the sleek black console. But the thought "why be stingy and want more when what you have is suting you fine?" comes to mind.
Warlock82
01-21-2010, 04:41 PM
I've got a regular 360 with a 20G hard drive. What advantage does the Elite have over the regular 360? I thought you were basically paying for the bigger HD. Does it run quieter or anything? Thanks!
Unless you have a really old model without an HDMI port, pretty much none. It's black. The large hard drive is the only real reason to buy it over another model (I think it also comes with a headset for what that's worth).
So yeah, stupid deal. $40 for a swap of paint jobs :P
dcm1602
01-21-2010, 04:43 PM
Would it be wise to trade in my fairly new Jasper arcade unit for an Elite? My old Halo console went E74 mid-September, so I went out the next day to Best Buy and bought an arcade hands down.
I would like the sleek black console. But the thought "why be stingy and want more when what you have is suting you fine?" comes to mind.
I wouldnt . If you have a fairly new working system stick with it.
Only reason I jumped on this deal is my xbox was close to 5 years old, and starting to freeze up more often than Id like.
mossman43
01-21-2010, 04:57 PM
I thought about doing this until reading all of the comments. Then I said screw it and bought a new Elite from Amazon for $293 with free shipping and a $50 giftcard. Thanks anyway OP!! :)
IronsideGrunt
01-21-2010, 05:07 PM
and doesn't sound like a 747 jet airplane when I play it!
That has more to do with the FANS in the console than anything else.
There are THREE types:
NIDEC (Quiet)
DC BRUSHLESS - Delta (the ones made in China are the loudest, the ones made in Thailand are so-so) - In any case they are considered the loudest.
Sunon (about same noise as Delta Thailand made - some say they are slightly quieter than Deltas but that seems more of an opinion than real evidence)
You'll know what you got when you look at the back of your console and see what color the stickers are.
If they are all black you have NIDEC...
If the are WHITE and say DC brushless you have DELTAS...
If you have GREEN they are SUNON...
*NOTE* I have read in some forums that the DELTAS seem to push more air out (which is good) than the quiet NIDEC ones...
Thing is there is no REAL hard evidence of this. So unless someone can provide that the only thing we can go by is noise and the NIDECS are the quiet fans.
Thing is in order to land a 360 with them is like playing the lottery. You cant check it ahead of time (before opening the box). There is NO WAY to know 100% for sure, before you open that box what you have.
CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO OF NIDECS VS. DC BRUSHLESS (DELTAS) *I think these Deltas are the ones made in China*:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSXTyW5y8E4
Unless you have a really old model without an HDMI port, pretty much none. It's black. The large hard drive is the only real reason to buy it over another model (I think it also comes with a headset for what that's worth).
So yeah, stupid deal. $40 for a swap of paint jobs :P
Thanks. that's kinda what i was thinking. i'll hold out and just get a new one down the road.
Burchamj
01-21-2010, 11:18 PM
I'd go for it if i knew how much theyd check it.. Ussually you have to bang on the top of the xbox when the disc loads, and then u have to do it a few times as it says please insert this disc in an xbox 360...
GogetaSS4
01-22-2010, 01:26 AM
Do the new one's still have composite cables? I have a launch 360 and it's been freezing up and I was considering doing this when I get paid tomorrow. Is it easy to transfer all my stuff to the new box. As in my arcade games and such?
dcm1602
01-22-2010, 03:41 AM
If you keep your hard drive (which I would, its cheaper) all your arcade games and such will remain on it.
The new one comes with a set of av cables I believe, however the guy let me keep my own composite cables and just trade in the crappy AV cables that come with the new system with my old system trade in.
Harknesss
01-22-2010, 06:56 AM
I have a quick question, since I don't usually trade my stuff at GS.
I have two 360s at the moment, an arcade and an older one where the dvd drive sometimes spontaneously works but usually doesnt. If I trade that one in, would they ask for personal contact information? Or can I rip them off?
bryenfury
01-22-2010, 10:53 AM
According to Microsoft's terms, you're required to submit a copy of the purchase receipt if you send in an unregistered console. They also expressly state that their warranty will not apply to consoles that people buy used. You may have gotten lucky, but their terms certainly don't back up what you're saying. And even if Microsoft completely let it slide as you state, you're still basically saying it's only going to work 30% of the time.
So far as I know, the only way for an Xbox warranty to be transferred to a new owner is if the original owner had registered it and calls Microsoft prior to the purchase. I did this when I sold my original Xbox and they gave me a form to fill out with my info and the info of the buyer and transferred the warranty over to him.Sorry maybe I was not clear about the 3 of 10 statement. I mean for every 10 systems I have come across 3 aren't registered, this is not from gamestop but from other sources.
I would not buy used from GS ever, I've seen some of their refurbs and what they do to repair them.
When I get xbox's to repair I check to see if they have been registered.
You have to register the console obviously to get repairs without all the information you just stated they need for repairs.
I've not yet been able to get free repairs from a transferred warranty though.
As for fans being loud, there are different types with different power connectors depending on when it was made.
the Xbox 360's that sound like a jet plane is due to the fact that either the GPU or CPU is sensing overheating.
This in turn increases the speed of the fans.
Eventual failure is in the future, but typical issues are freezing and possible graphics issues.
2 Rings may result before 3 rings.
bigdaddybruce44
01-22-2010, 10:57 AM
Someone should really update the title or just have this moved. $40 to change the color of your console and likely get a system that is on its last legs or was banned from Live does not seem like much of a deal to me.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
01-22-2010, 11:46 AM
I have a quick question, since I don't usually trade my stuff at GS.
I have two 360s at the moment, an arcade and an older one where the dvd drive sometimes spontaneously works but usually doesnt. If I trade that one in, would they ask for personal contact information? Or can I rip them off?
They require an ID to do the trade-ins, so YES they require personal contact information.
So unless you have a fake ID for getting into the bars or something along those lines, you're going to need to give out your personal info.
As for ripping them off, what do you think this whole thread is seemingly about? It's for people who mainly have dying(or soon to be dying) 360's who want to trade in their ticking time bombs before they are unable to so they can get a working console(possibly).
So go right ahead and trade in your 360 while you can, though if your system is THAT problematic you have to wonder if it's going to even read a disc when they test it. So you may be SOL when they go to test it.
vashnlol
01-22-2010, 11:57 AM
If you have an older console thats starting to have problems its a fantastic deal.
Especially if you have an original xbox 360. The original xbox 360s sound like jet engines compared to this thing, dont have hdmi, and run WAY hotter/burn out faster.
anyone confirm the sound/heat difference?
i have a launch console, rrod'd 2 times, MS repaired both times for free. it's been my buddy through thick and thin, but i have a 20gig i think (the hard drive reads 13 gig even with everything deleted:cry:), and i don't have the room to install stuff. After an hour of gaming my room is pretty hot and i have to turn the volume up to sound out the actual console whirrringggg
Also, what does licence transferring entail? i only have castle crashers
Malik112099
01-22-2010, 12:17 PM
If I trade that one in, would they ask for personal contact information? Or can I rip them off?
What the fuck people?
onapartyrock
01-22-2010, 12:36 PM
Manufactured date 9-16-2009 (says right on the back of the unit)
Thats brand new baby
MICROSOFT WARRANTY Expires 03/01/2011
If nothing happened to it to get it banned or if it was not modded then that was a deal.
What I saw last night would make me think twice, Dude comes in to a Gamestop I was in (I was getting Devil Summoner 2 for $20) and turns in his 360, gets tested and looked over, it was an Elite. In hearing him talk to his friend as they walked around the store he was turning it in because it was modded and a friend went online with it with a copy of a game. He was dumping it to get money before the next ban wave.
Dude ends up leaving with just the credit, sounded like they were going to another GS to get a new 360. Now the staff didn't hear the dude talking about the mod stuff, they pick up the phone and I hear "We just got an elite in, you still want one? OK, we'll hold it for you."
I'd never by a refurb/used 360 before I saw this due to RROD and being worried that the refurb process voided the warranty, now with the worry of bans it is just another reason not to.
Now if GS was smart they would include banning in their warranty for 360s for an extra cost above the regular warranty and require you to send it in for inspection; placing some security stickers over some strategic spots that are required to be there without damage at inspection time.
avrame
01-22-2010, 12:46 PM
I really don't see what the big problem is with this thread, if you have a dying 360, by all means turn it in (a dying 360, not a DEAD one).
As for the whole banned console situation, if it happens, return it to GS and ask for a new one, I'm sure they wouldn't mind, as they'll have lots in stock. In the event they don't (which is what happened to me before), they opened a brand new system and gave it to me.
As for refurb units: REFURB is NOT the same as USED. Refurb units are opened in a factory and are repaired or overhauled in their common failing points (in this case, the X-clamp, which is what causes the RROD). Many times over, the refurb units go through repairs/checks before they are sent back to the store for a resell (as to why it is in a sealed box, as oppose to sitting out in the open).
Used consoles are rarely boxed, and are partically sold as is, which is the worst case scenario. If it's a boxed unit, you have nothing to worry about.
tattoojeep
01-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Ok so this is what Gamestop told me when I called. When you trade your system in for a refurb, you dont know what you're getting. All the refurbs are sitting in a box sealed until they are sold. They just grab which ever one, and that one is yours. Employees are unable to open the sealed refurb boxed until they are sold. So for all you know you are trading your system in for the exact same 360.
For anyone who has done this already, how did your experience go? How did you KNOW you were getting an elite?
I called my gamestop yesterday. They had one elite. Awesome... so I swapped my old one out for the new one!!!! Very exciting:
1. It came wrapped in a clear plastic breifcase.
2. I didn't have to bring my wires in as they aggreed over the phone to just swap them out. I did bring my brinck in since i thought it may be better to have the new one.
3. Paid 3 dollars for my system as I swapped Darksiders in for the PS3.
Now the system:
4. I asked them about banned systems... is this one? They showed me what they did to my system to make sure it was not a banned system. They can tell in about 3 seconds it turns out. So my system was not banned nor was the one I swapped it for.
5. He offered me protection plan I told him yes then changed my mind after he told me the system was built in April of 09 and it still had the RROD warrenty still intact. He also told me that Refurbs are as good as new as they are sent back to the warehouse and all of the known common problems are fixed and extremely well tested before they get boxed back up and reshipped to the stores.
Its home:
6. OMG its sooooo quiet.
7. I had one issue. I used to have the Gamestop HDMI converter box on my old system. It also had a Optical input on the box. I left it at Gamestop because i didn't think i needed it. Turns out I did and I am going to pick that up today. Not sure if it will work but its identical almost to the one Microsoft sells with their HDMI cord so it shoudl work.
8. Color is brilliant... Much better and real HD compared to the old conversion box i was using from Gamestop converter box listed above.
wild21crazy
01-22-2010, 01:39 PM
Would probably jump on this but gamestop said they can't tell if is an Elite on the inside of the box or not. The also said that they are not willing to open the box up and check. Lame
tattoojeep
01-22-2010, 01:45 PM
Would probably jump on this but gamestop said they can't tell if is an Elite on the inside of the box or not. The also said that they are not willing to open the box up and check. Lame
I had to call two gamestops to find one. The one I purchased was in a clear plastic sealed case. so in alot of instances they can tell
Traitorious
01-22-2010, 01:50 PM
I had to call two gamestops to find one. The one I purchased was in a clear plastic sealed case. so in alot of instances they can tell
That's not really a lot of instances...
tattoojeep
01-22-2010, 02:02 PM
That's not really a lot of instances...
They had 6 in stock so I asked if I could have the newest one. the one that seemed to be the newest and came with a black controller and not the red one. The other store didn't have any Elites but they had the White ones also in clear plastic containers
reltoolman
01-22-2010, 02:48 PM
ok i have a xbox that i think might be dying (my third) I need a new controller and want a 120 gig hd... Do you think I should do the trade in deal and get a new elite or buy a arcade and then buy a 120 gig hd
what do you think?
Harknesss
01-22-2010, 03:29 PM
ok i have a xbox that i think might be dying (my third) I need a new controller and want a 120 gig hd... Do you think I should do the trade in deal and get a new elite or buy a arcade and then buy a 120 gig hd
what do you think?
Both. The elite you get from GS won't have a 120 hdd. Trade in your dying 360 for a nice black one and buy a new hdd.
dcm1602
01-22-2010, 03:34 PM
ok i have a xbox that i think might be dying (my third) I need a new controller and want a 120 gig hd... Do you think I should do the trade in deal and get a new elite or buy a arcade and then buy a 120 gig hd
what do you think?
Also if you have an older beat up controller (like I did) you should trade that in since the elite comes with one.
reltoolman
01-22-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm not thinking refub elite
option 1) New Elite $199 after trade
option 2) arcade 120 hard drive $100 then hard drive price ? $120
i guess elite i just want to make sure i don't get an old chip Elite
timshady87
01-22-2010, 04:13 PM
I'm not thinking refub elite
option 1) New Elite $199 after trade
option 2) arcade 120 hard drive $100 then hard drive price ? $120
i guess elite i just want to make sure i don't get an old chip Elite
I don't think they sell 120gb stand alone anymore. I looked and can't find them.
My pro console just E74'ed so I sent it in for free. The thing is, when I get it back I don't know if I'll want it. I'd rather have a new one. How much does GS give cash for a 360? I have a 20gb and 120gb HDD but when I get a new one I'd like an Elite just for the black. Maybe I'll just sell everything I have and buy a new Elite since they come with Jaspers now.
dcm1602
01-22-2010, 04:16 PM
I don't think they sell 120gb stand alone anymore. I looked and can't find them.
My pro console just E74'ed so I sent it in for free. The thing is, when I get it back I don't know if I'll want it. I'd rather have a new one. How much does GS give cash for a 360? I have a 20gb and 120gb HDD but when I get a new one I'd like an Elite just for the black. Maybe I'll just sell everything I have and buy a new Elite since they come with Jaspers now.
Well gamestop and newegg both have deals on the elite right now that you get a 50$ gift card + 2 free games (lego batman and pure I think ?).
And the 20$ bonus trade in on systems is only until the 24th I believe also
Robotuner
01-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Edit- Nevermind, figured it out.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
01-22-2010, 05:43 PM
Well gamestop and newegg both have deals on the elite right now that you get a 50$ gift card + 2 free games (lego batman and pure I think ?).
And the 20$ bonus trade in on systems is only until the 24th I believe also
The 2 free games came with the Holiday 2009 360 Elite bundle(that I returned a couple of days ago to GS)and GS has been doing the $50 giftcard when you buy an Elite deal for a bit. It's running from the 15th to the 21st and they deduct $50 from the price of the 360(making it $249.99) and charge you for the $50 gift card.:roll:
reltoolman
01-22-2010, 05:46 PM
crap today is the 22nd