OFFICIAL Flame people about pot smoking thread

[SneakyPenguin]

I, like nearly everone else, am tired of this stupid discussion spreading like a virus through the boards. so, i am hearby creating this thread so everyone can express their opinion and be flamed HERE. not anywhere else. here.

i have stated its purpose.
do what you will.

[Theenternal]

Here is my opinion no the situation,

In Chris Rocks own words: "Just because it can be done, doesn't make it right. I can drive a car with my feet, but that doesn't make it a good thing to do."

I and 4 other family members in my house work at one of the top hospitals in the U.S. And my brother is head of a dept that diagnoisis cancer. So yes if you do drugs, whatever. So yes imo and other peoples opinion its a loser thing to do. But as long as you are only messing up your life, then I respect that decision, but i hope that my opinion can be respected too

[CoffeeEdge]

Drugs are stupid. My opinions are pretty complicated on this topic, but it can be boiled down to that. :roll:

[WeaponX2099]

Drugs are bad. MMMkay!!

[terribledeli]

Post count +1!

[organicow]

Yeah, i've seen all those posts in other topics about this shit, and its gotten really old. First it was annoying, then sorta funny, then finally just stupid.

I haven't posted a single opinion about it anywhere else, and I'm not going to bore you with it here, either. But if any of you have anything to say about it, please, follow Penguin's advice and do it HERE instead of other topics.

You know what would be funny? If people in this thread eventually got bored with the topic at hand, and actually started talking about games again. Last time I checked, this site is not about politics, drugs, or sociology; its about freaking GAMES!!!

[XboxMaster]

Yeah, I don't wanna state my opinion anymore, doesn't seems it's gonna get to through some thick skulls around here. You're right, this forums is MOSTLY about games. If you haven't noticed (which it seems you haven't), this is the Cheap Ass Lifestyle & Off Topic forum. OFF TOPIC. That means that it is a forum to talk about things that are not related to the main purpose of the rest of the threads.

[SneakyPenguin]

the thing is, even the off-topic threads are being hijacked. look at daphatty's thread of that video. it got so out of hand its now locked. thats why im trying to constrain this mess to one topic.

[XboxMaster]

Yeah, that was a pretty funny video clip. Sorry DapHatty to contributing to that flame fest :oops: .

[x0thedeadzone0x]

i don't have anything personal against jsweeney anymore (and uh.. i don't .. THINK.. he has anything personal against me) so putting that in your starter is a little shall we say.. of a premature decision. ya'll know that me and js made up last night after we proposed an offer to each other. smart though, to make this thread. though i'm confident or almost that no one will use it, because it's so much more fun to destroy other people's thread instead of posting in the correct one now isn't it?

[SneakyPenguin]

you say you made up, but i look at the times on daphattys thread and their all after this "making up" so forgive me if i jumped to conclusions, it just seems like you still hate each other.

[x0thedeadzone0x]

nope, on that entire thread show me one piece of clip where after the 2nd page i was hating on jsweeney or he was hating on me. if i was, i was just venting. i don't specifically remember him retaliating either.

[SneakyPenguin]

i aplologize. on second look, all of jsweeny's posts are directed at other people and their opinions, not yours. i will remove the above.

[WhipSmartBanky]

the thing is, even the off-topic threads are being hijacked. look at daphatty's thread of that video. it got so out of hand its now locked. thats why im trying to constrain this mess to one topic.

Gee...such a humanitarian. :roll:

[SneakyPenguin]

see ive dealt with this before. not taking the bait.

[x0thedeadzone0x]

poor sneaky penguin. he's never understood.

[jdpimp]

Okay, if this is the thread for flaming people for smoking da reefer, won't we all get a contact buzz from flaming them? Will that make me fail drug tests?

That and the pound of poppyseeds I had for lunch, I'm in deep......

[moiety]

the thing is, even the off-topic threads are being hijacked. look at daphatty's thread of that video. it got so out of hand its now locked. thats why im trying to constrain this mess to one topic.

How about just letting the topic go instead of letting it continue on?

[ZForce915]

Drugs are just stupid. Drugs are for losers and people with too much damn cash.

[stonedgamer]

Nothing wrong with smoking a little or a lot of "pot"
You're all just brainwashed by America's anti-marijuana and pro-alcohol ways.

[WhipSmartBanky]

How about just letting the topic go instead of letting it continue on?

Don't confuse the issue with that stupid logic crap!

[Theenternal]

is he like the penquin in toy story 2?

[SneakyPenguin]

what, my sig? if so, no its tux, linux's mascot.

[WildWop]

And what a marketing giant Tux is! When I think operating systems, I ALWAYS think of penguins. I can't believe noone thought of using a penguin for their OS logo until Linux!

Penguins : Operating Systems :: Chihuahuas : Tacos!

[magilacudy]

Nothing wrong with smoking a little or a lot of "pot"
You're all just brainwashed by America's anti-marijuana and pro-alcohol ways.

I guess we should start the American government conspiracy thread next. On a side note, where are you from, Amsterdam?

:)

Add another post to the count.

[Scrubking]

Last time I checked, this site is not about POLITICS, drugs, or sociology; its about freaking GAMES!!!

That is why you have that stupid ass avatar right? :roll:

[wookieballz]

~stonedgamer (an appropriate name, I guess)

"Nothing wrong with smoking a little or a lot of 'pot."

I'm sure a more learned person than you (say...a doctor or psychologist) would be inclined to disagree. Indeed, there's nothing wrong with using pot to medicinally alleviate chronic pain. But used simply as a means through which you can achieve an artificial high, it does more damage to you than you could possibly know. It affects both your psychological well-being and your physical well-being. Nothing is spared, and nothing is gained.

"You're all just brainwashed by America's anti-marijuana and pro-alcohol ways."

Or maybe your brain has just been adversely affected by using these mind-altering substances to escape from your immediate reality, which is why the anti-drug messages are lost on you.

I'm not trying to insult you, but don't you dare start accusing people who abstain from drug use as being ignorant. If you really want to disregard the scientific evidence that your body is affected by putting crap like pot into your system and keep on smoking it, go right ahead. Nobody will stop you.

Just don't delude yourself into thinking it's a good idea.

[defender]

What...I am the only Heroin user here? I demand equal flaming rights! Heroin addicts are people too. We should also be allowed to marry each other. If a Heroin addict loves a pot smoker...who are you to say that's wrong.

[magilacudy]

Cheapy should hook us up with some cheapass deals on heroin, crack, meth, PCP, trees, bushes, goofballs, whatever kids are using these days. Save if you buy in bulk! :shock:

[Mr_hockey66]

See this isn't as fun as just making fun of the pot smoking hippies right when they say something in another forum. It's like saying something funny later but know one remembers the joke your where telling.Oh and by the way its fun to be a smart ass. I'd rather be a smart as then a dumb ass.More power to the wise cracking people on this board! They make it funny . WSB is my hero! People take things to seriously though. Rexlax and make fun of yourself. (cause we're allready making fun of you!)

That was a funny clip though.

[stonedgamer]

~stonedgamer (an appropriate name, I guess)

"Nothing wrong with smoking a little or a lot of 'pot."

I'm sure a more learned person than you (say...a doctor or psychologist) would be inclined to disagree. Indeed, there's nothing wrong with using pot to medicinally alleviate chronic pain. But used simply as a means through which you can achieve an artificial high, it does more damage to you than you could possibly know. It affects both your psychological well-being and your physical well-being. Nothing is spared, and nothing is gained.

"You're all just brainwashed by America's anti-marijuana and pro-alcohol ways."
I'm not trying to insult you, but don't you dare start accusing people who abstain from drug use as being ignorant. If you really want to disregard the scientific evidence that your body is affected by putting crap like pot into your system and keep on smoking it, go right ahead. Nobody will stop you.

Just don't delude yourself into thinking it's a good idea.
I live in the U.S
I'm not calling everyone who doesn't smoke ignorant, I said brainwashed by all those anti-drug ads.
And I can honestly say using marijuana isn't an "escape from reality"
Ever drank a soda? ate a fatty hamburger? You're putting crap into your self anyway.
Yes SMOKING anything is bad for your health but I can argue all day about how ingesting marijuana is almost harmless.

[Theenternal]

~stonedgamer (an appropriate name, I guess)

"Nothing wrong with smoking a little or a lot of 'pot."

I'm sure a more learned person than you (say...a doctor or psychologist) would be inclined to disagree. Indeed, there's nothing wrong with using pot to medicinally alleviate chronic pain. But used simply as a means through which you can achieve an artificial high, it does more damage to you than you could possibly know. It affects both your psychological well-being and your physical well-being. Nothing is spared, and nothing is gained.

"You're all just brainwashed by America's anti-marijuana and pro-alcohol ways."
I'm not trying to insult you, but don't you dare start accusing people who abstain from drug use as being ignorant. If you really want to disregard the scientific evidence that your body is affected by putting crap like pot into your system and keep on smoking it, go right ahead. Nobody will stop you.

Just don't delude yourself into thinking it's a good idea.
I live in the U.S
I'm not calling anyone ignorant, I said brainwashed by all those anti-drug ads.
And I can honestly say using marijuana isn't an "escape from reality"
Ever drank a soda? ate a fatty hamburger? You're putting crap into your self anyway.
Yes SMOKING anything is bad for your health but I can argue all day about how ingesting marijuana is almost harmless.

Pot smokers are beneficial in some ways, they give my brother a job, so he can tell someone that they have terminal cancer, or they have to have a lung removed etc etc. Soda, Hamburgers, yea its fattening, but that can be burned off, eaten in moderation. I never hard of exercising to decrease the cancer in your body.

[poormojo]

Are you saying that pot gives people cancer?

[wookieballz]

~stonegamer

Not only is it a poor comparison to liken smoking marijuana to eating a hamburger, but it's also a poor excuse for using marijuana.

Care to explain how people have been brainwashed by anti-drug ads? If you call education "brainwashing," then people have been brainwashed by their respective school systems for some time now.

I could just as easily say you've been brainwashed by your marijuana use. And at least I'd be partially right, because marijuana does distort reality and alter brain chemistry.

~poormojo

There are studies out there which indicate that marijuana has comparable levels of carcinogenic properties to tobacco cigarettes, if not greater levels of carcinogens.

So, yes, smoking pot can cause cancer.

[ZForce915]

Cheapy should hook us up with some cheapass deals on heroin, crack, meth, PCP, trees, bushes, goofballs, whatever kids are using these days. Save if you buy in bulk! :shock:

Wiggum: High as a kite everyone... Goofballs!

[evilmax17]

You know, while I agree that pot can cause cancer, I don't even understand the druggies arguement against it. There are people who say it DOESN'T cause it, and because of this, it somehow makes it ok.

Since when does the arguement "It won't kill me, so it's ok" hold up?

I can slam my hand in the door of my car every day of the week if I wanted, and you know what? It wouldn't kill me!

Does that make me any less stupid for doing it? NO!

[MrBrando]

ok, I'm not for marijuana but it's very unlikely it's gonna cause cancer. You could get chronic bronchitis, but that's the same if you stood over a bar-b-q pit 2 hrs a day for a number of years. I hate it also when pot smokers say "it's not addicting" it's incredibly addicting and if you try and stop you get profoundly depressed and or switch to something else. I think the most obvious thing you can see is how if you started at like 14-17 and contiinue to use for years, your brain is basically lock to when you started. How many times have you meet a stoner who is 23 and he acts and sounds like a 15 year old. I also do feel that america makes way too big a deal out of marijuana as if it's destroying american, just like 2nd hand smoke is one of the biggest killers out there.

[poormojo]

This may be a cse of it effecting different people differently. I know some people who smoke everyday and are as dumb as ashtrays, and I know others who smoke everyday and are still very sharp, fun, energetic people.

Personally, I've never smoked pot, but I totally support peoples' right to. If people can drink alcohol, smoke tobacco and take prescription meds, all at the same time, they should be able to smoke pot, too.

[poormojo]

Anyone here evr here about the source of pot being criminalized?

It goes back to the early part of the 20th century. Apparently, paper companies--that used wood pulp--were concerned about newer companies who were using hemp pulp to make paper much cheaper. So the paper companies banded together and bought a bunch of congressman who made hemp illegal to grow. Ostensibly it was because smoking it was deadly and caused insanity.

At the same time, Coca Cola contained real cocaine, so, y'know, it was a fucked up time to be alive.

[stonedgamer]

~stonegamer

Not only is it a poor comparison to liken smoking marijuana to eating a hamburger, but it's also a poor excuse for using marijuana.

Care to explain how people have been brainwashed by anti-drug ads? If you call education "brainwashing," then people have been brainwashed by their respective school systems for some time now.

I could just as easily say you've been brainwashed by your marijuana use. And at least I'd be partially right, because marijuana does distort reality and alter brain chemistry.

~poormojo

There are studies out there which indicate that marijuana has comparable levels of carcinogenic properties to tobacco cigarettes, if not greater levels of carcinogens.

So, yes, smoking pot can cause cancer.
I'm not denying pot may give you cancer if you smoke it for lets say 25 years and I've known people smoking for longer that are still healthy.
And it only effects your short term memory, show me any other facts otherwise and I still won't believe you.
If you drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes you're no better than a pothead.
Marijuana can be eaten, thus saving yourself from the harm of smoke, of course it's still harmful in other ways nobody can explain.

[CaseyRyback]

personally I would ban alcohol as I feel that its worse than many drugs people take

[Mr_hockey66]

I do none of the above!

[magilacudy]

I'm not denying pot may give you cancer if you smoke it for lets say 25 years and I've known people smoking for longer that are still healthy.
And it only effects your short term memory, show me any other facts otherwise and I still won't believe you.
If you drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes you're no better than a pothead.
Marijuana can be eaten, thus saving yourself from the harm of smoke, of course it's still harmful in other ways nobody can explain.

I'm just scratching my head right now. You just proved yourself wrong while saying if you were given facts stating otherwise, you'd ignore them. Maybe you're stoned as you're typing this right now.

[magilacudy]

personally I would ban alcohol as I feel that its worse than many drugs people take

Alcohol was banned during the Prohibition and see what that led to. Like alcohol, basically we're damned if we make marijuana legal, or damned if we don't. They reinstuted alcohol for any number of reasons, including the amount of crime and such it created. Stoners would love to see the herb legalized, but no one knows what ramifications that would have.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, but I saw another quote that I wanted to address :?

[greendj27]

Here is my take on the subjuect: everything in moderation. I personally do not smoke pot, I think any smoking is disgusting. The smoke smells bad and tastes worse. As long as you don't overdue it, you're probably fine.

[WhipSmartBanky]

If you drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes you're no better than a pothead.

Actually, yes, they are. Possesion of alcohol or cigarettes isn't illegal.

[wookieballz]

~Mr. Brando

"ok, I'm not for marijuana but it's very unlikely it's gonna cause cancer."

It's no less likely to cause cancer than a cigarette is, if you want to put it that way.

~poormojo

"Personally, I've never smoked pot, but I totally support peoples' right to. If people can drink alcohol, smoke tobacco and take prescription meds, all at the same time, they should be able to smoke pot, too."

I agree. Personally, it would be an economically sound decision for the legislature to legalize marijuana distribution and use. The states could earn money on pot sales while simultaneously saving money in the prison system. I mean, pot users aren't necessarily violent criminals, so why treat them like criminals? It costs a lot to keep a person in prison, so we shouldn't throw idiot druggies into prison just because they're not the brightest pennies in the fountain.

If a person wants to use pot in the safety and privacy of his or her own home, I say fine. But it's still an incredibly stupid decision to do so.

~stonedgamer

"Marijuana can be eaten, thus saving yourself from the harm of smoke, of course it's still harmful in other ways nobody can explain."

The deleteriously psychological effects of marijuana ingestion persist whether eaten or inhaled. When you ingest marijuana, like when you smoke it, you're consuming substances that impare normal neurological functioning, imparing neurotransmitter functions and reuptake. This physically alters the chemistry of your central nervous system, though the effects will not be immediately obvious to the user.

I could explain this further, but I doubt you really care. You'll use your drugs no matter how much I attempt to educate you on the matter. After all, you said it yourself: you still won't believe me even if I give you the facts.

[redgopher]

Here's my opinion:

I've smoked weed three times. The first time it was good, it felt good, I was having fun. The weed was also very, very weak. Second time, the weed was more pure and I was required to drive to mcdonalds for some other people in my car. I couldn't concentrate b/c they wouldn't shut the fuck up. Leaving mcdonalds I smashed my beater 73 datsun 510's rear bumper into one of those concrete poles, not much damage done so i shut them the fuck up and headed to my friends place to chill out and calm down. The third time, I flat out freaked out and had a panic attack. I had to lay down for a couple hours just to take the edge off. I've never smoked weed since.

IMO, it's bad stuff. Some people can take it, some people just freak out. It is dangerous in both situations. If you try it once, I can't blame you, but once is all it should be. I don't regret the first time, but thats the only time I should have tried it. Stay away afterwards and your life will be better.

[magilacudy]

IMO, it's bad stuff. Some people can take it, some people just freak out. It is dangerous in both situations. If you try it once, I can't blame you, but once is all it should be. I don't regret the first time, but thats the only time I should have tried it. Stay away afterwards and your life will be better.

The most true statement so far I think :)

[bmulligan]

Everything gives you cancer. Pot smokers probably have a greater chance of dying of a heart attack from eating mcDonalds than from cancer, though. Unless they smoke an ounce a day for 20 years like Bob Marley. Most smokers do it recreationally, like having a few beers on the weekend. I don't see anything wrong with that. As long as it's not infringing on MY rights, I could care less what anyone else does to their own body.

I know Lawyers, Nurses, a few doctors, many other professionals, and a PHD chemist with an IQ of 180 who smokes pot. It does not affect his memory in the slightest. However, for every sucess story I have, there is also a failure. Some of the smokers I know still have dead end jobs or no job at all, still smoke every day and still can't remember when they last paid their rent, or how. You can't always blame the drug, it has more to do with the type of person and his personality to begin with. Those with psycological 'issues' are still going to have them regardless of drug use, so you can't blame drugs for their shortcomings. Correlation does not always imply causation.

[magilacudy]

Everything gives you cancer..

True, but I wouldn't want to stick my face in asbestos. Whatever floats peoples' boats I guess.

One of the reasons I quit was that my short-term and long-term memory and vocabulary were suffering, as well as personal relationships. I also smoked cigarettes as well, but I personally didn't think all that extra damage was worth it. Of course, YMMV.

I've said this before, but my brother is the same age as some of you CAGers and I want to protect his dumbass from that. Him I don't want to get f*d up obviously, but as for people on here, I really don't care if I convince anyone or not. I'm not really trying to. 'It's just pot', I know, but every decision you make affects your life in some way, and you might not see it until its too late.

[Mr. Anderson]

Damn, I'm away from these boards for one day, and all of a sudden a Dawn- of-the-Dead style virus about smoking pot goes on a rampage. WTF is wrong with you guys?!

[MorbidAngel4Life]

personally, ive dabbled in the mary jane, and i will say that there is no reason it should be illegal. i believe in a few years, pot will be legalized.

[stonedgamer]

personally, ive dabbled in the mary jane, and i will say that there is no reason it should be illegal. i believe in a few years, pot will be legalized.
It will never be legalized, maybe decriminalized but the government would have to admit that it's not as bad as they said it was...and you know they can't do that.
I can say for the person who drove high only being high 3 times and driving is not smart buddy.
Put a drunk in a car and a longtime smoker in the other, see which one crashes.
Not that you should drive under the influence of anything which is stupid in the first place. It's all about personal responsibility.
The Truth is legal substances cause way more damage in the world than marijuana, but the world is a messed up place.
And it's not addicting for me, I take 3-4 day breaks from it sometime without problem. I'm done arguing over the matter, I'm biased because I smoke but even if I quit I'll still feel the same way.

[Quackzilla]

I love drugs and alcohol. You are not cool unless you consume drugs and alcohol.

I like to call them "evolution catalysts" because they speed up natural selection.

[WhipSmartBanky]

And it's not addicting for me, I take 3-4 day breaks from it sometime without problem.

Emphasis mine. 'Nuff said.

[jdpimp]

Well, I went to church the other day, and afterwards, the priest and I got stoned, so I asked the stoned priest, I said "Pastor, is this weed smoking wrong?" He looked me straight in my bloodshot eyes and said "Son, I'm hungry, lets get some Taco Bell"

There ya have it, straight from the conduit of the big man upstairs.



/oh its not like I won't see most of you in hell anyway

[organicow]

Yeah, I don't wanna state my opinion anymore, doesn't seems it's gonna get to through some thick skulls around here. You're right, this forums is MOSTLY about games. If you haven't noticed (which it seems you haven't), this is the Cheap Ass Lifestyle & Off Topic forum. OFF TOPIC. That means that it is a forum to talk about things that are not related to the main purpose of the rest of the threads.

Yeah, I know, and I DID notice what forum we were in. I was just pointing out that I'm glad that we have a specific thread in which people can talk about this shit instead of it infecting other off-topic posts that would otherwise be enjoyable. I certainly meant no offence... :roll:

[x0thedeadzone0x]

I agree. Though it seems some take personal enjoyment running around in their underwear and a cape destroying supposingly harmless and good threads by bringing up things completely off-topic from the thread and therefore, destroying it. (Example: see daphatty's thread on women getting smacked) Seemingly harmless, good topic starter and story, but then the Off-topic man strikes again and destroys another good thread. So again, I don't even know if this thread will have much purpose because some people *AHEM* like to ruin other people's threads. Why, why why, would they EVER post in the correct forum like they're supposed to?! It's unheard!

Though there seems to be quite a debate on this going around.. and for that, sneakyp, I applaud and salute you.

[bignick]

Cheapy should hook us up with some cheapass deals on heroin, crack, meth, PCP, trees, bushes, goofballs, whatever kids are using these days. Save if you buy in bulk! :shock:

Thats the best post I have ever seen of yours. Got my vote!

[organicow]

Hey!! Nick IS Big!!!

[JSweeney]

I guess with my name being bandied about as much as it was in this thread, I at least owe it to everyone to at least make an appearence.

While it is even off topic here, I'd just like to state as a matter of public record that I have never, ever hated anyone posting here. I don't hate or discriminate. I'm an equal opportunity offender.

[SneakyPenguin]

i feel that since i started this thread, i should actually state my opinion.

i think all drugs AND alcohol AND even smoking is wrong and SHOULD be illegal. but that would never work. black market would prevent it. since that wont work, then everything should be made legal, but have high axes and make the penalties for abuse (underage, dwi etc.) extreme so as to instill fear and make the country some money. i personally dont do any of these, nor will i ever (except drink). but as long as it doesn t harm anyone else, one should be allowed to do it.

[MorbidAngel4Life]

i am the same way as stonedgamer, but havent done it in about 2 or 3 months, and im not addicted. im not dieing for it. i havent even thought about it.

[godhatesjustyou]

i'm here to try to get my friend to stop doing the weed. his name is anth0ny, and you all have probably seen him around here at one time or another (jin thread). well yeah, i personally know him, and he isnt that bright of a kid, i'm pretty confident its because of all that smoking. so yeah anthony, stop. if not for me, do it for brad pitt.
http://img22.photobucket.com/albums/v67/godhatesjustyou/images.jpg

[anth0ny]

damn i remember the good ole' days, when "godhatesjustyou" use to supply me with the weed, that punk got me addicted.....hes a bad influence kids

[Mr_hockey66]

I agree. Though it seems some take personal enjoyment running around in their underwear and a cape destroying supposingly harmless and good threads by bringing up things completely off-topic from the thread and therefore, destroying it. (Example: see daphatty's thread on women getting smacked) Seemingly harmless, good topic starter and story, but then the Off-topic man strikes again and destroys another good thread. So again, I don't even know if this thread will have much purpose because some people *AHEM* like to ruin other people's threads.

Who is this underwearing capped freak? Couldn't tell.

[Quackzilla]

Secondhand smoke makes it difficult for me to breath.

If you smoke than shove a football up your ass, okay?

[stonedgamer]

Well since this topic won't die, here are some old but interesting statistics.
The rate is obviously higher by now
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm
Now I'm not saying it's right but even if weed did make you stupid like so many people claim, at least it doesn't cause such death.
So why doesn't everyone hate on tylenol?
Because it's legal

[Mr_hockey66]

yeah that pretty much explains it!

[JSweeney]

Well since this topic won't die, here are some old but interesting statistics.
The rate is obviously higher by now
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm
Now I'm not saying it's right but even if weed did make you stupid like so many people claim, at least it doesn't cause such death.
So why doesn't everyone hate on tylenol?
Because it's legal

True, but legality implies a wider userbase as well as government controls.
On top of that, the more people that use a specific chemical/drug to alter thier bodies chemistry, the more like it is for adverse reactions to be noticable and reported.



(Average 1990-1994) According to the US Centers for Disease Control, from the beginning of 1990 through 1994 "2,153,700 deaths (1,393,200 men and 760-400 women; total annual average: 430,700 deaths) were attributed to smoking (19.5% of all deaths)." The CDC notes that "Cigarette smoking remains the leading preventable cause of death in the United States."

According to the federal National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, in 1996 an estimated 110,640 people in the US died due to alcohol.

Source: "Number of deaths and age-adjusted death rates per 100,000 population for categories of alcohol-related (A-R) mortality, United States and States, 1979-96," National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, from the web at http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/databases/armort01.txt, last accessed Feb. 12, 2001, citing Alcohol Epidemiologic Data System, Saadatmand, F., Stinson, FS, Grant, BF, and Dufour, MC, "Surveillance Report #52: Liver Mortality in the United States, 1970-96" (Rockville, MD: National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Division of Biometry and Epidemiology, December 1999).

These problems are not really about the nature of said products, but more about the widespread use and abuse of said products. Since there are no actual numbers for marijuana use, these are nothing more than a red herring offered by a pro-pot site. In essence, these people are saying "but these are bad" as a way to push thier agenda.

(Average 1982-1998): According to Canadian researchers, approximately 32,000 hospitalized patients (and possibly as many as 106,000) in the USA die each year because of adverse reactions to their prescribed medications.

Source: Lazarou, J, Pomeranz, BH, Corey, PN, "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta-analysis of prospective studies," Journal of the American Medical Association (Chicago, IL: American Medical Association, 1998), 1998;279:1200-1205, also letters column, "Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients," JAMA (Chicago, IL: AMA, 1998), Nov. 25, 1998, Vol. 280, No. 20, from the web at http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v280n20/ffull/jlt1125-1.html, last accessed Feb. 12, 2001.

Again, through widespread use and proper reporting, it becomes obvious that even seemingly benign drugs can have drastic and adverse effects on some portion of the population.


(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 30,622 deaths from suicide in the US.

Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.

This point would be completely torn apart by anyone who's ever written a brief or taken a formal debate class. This is yet another red herring... nothing can be extrapolated about the use and effects of a drug from the national suicide rate from 3 years ago.


(2001): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 20,308 deaths from homicide in the US.

Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), Table C, p. 8, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.

Yet again, another major red herring. Murders have absolutely nothing to do with drugs in any way, with the exception of the violence and deaths inherent to the drug trade.


(2001): "In 2001 a total of 21,683 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States (tables 21 and 22). The category "drug-induced causes" includes not only deaths from dependent and nondependent use of drugs (legal and illegal use), but also poisoning from medically prescribed and other drugs. It excludes unintentional injuries, homicides, and other causes indirectly related to drug use. Also excluded are newborn deaths due to mother’s drug use. (For a list of drug-induced causes, see "Technical Notes.") In 2001 the age-adjusted death rate for drug-induced causes for males was 2 times the rate for females. The age-adjusted rate for the black population was 1.2 times the rate for the white population (table 21). The rate for the non-Hispanic white population was 1.5 times that of the Hispanic population, and the rate for the non-Hispanic black population was 1.8 times that of the Hispanic population (table 22)." Source: Arias, Elizabeth, Ph.D.; Robert N. Anderson, Ph.D.; Hsiang-Ching Kung, Ph.D.; Sherry L. Murphy, B.S.; Kenneth D. Kochanek, M.A.; Division of Vital Statistics, "Deaths: Final Data for 2001," National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, Sept. 18, 2003), p. 11, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_03.pdf, last accessed Jan. 27, 2004.

Nice of this website to completely negelect the technical notes.
Yet again, just because some drugs by thier natures have interactions, or people have allergies to them doesn't mean they are inherently unsafel, or that marijuana is safer.

(2000): "Illicit drug use is associated with suicide, homicide, motor-vehicle injury, HIV infection, pneumonia, violence, mental illness, and hepatitis. An estimated 3 million individuals in the United States have serious drug problems. Several studies have reported an undercount of the number of deaths attributed to drugs by vital statistics; however, improved medical treatments have reduced mortality from many diseases associated with illicit drug use. In keeping with the report by McGinnis and Foege, we included deaths caused indirectly by illicit drug use in this category. We used attributable fractions to compute the number of deaths due to illicit drug use. Overall, we estimate that illicit drug use resulted in approximately 17000 deaths in 2000, a reduction of 3000 deaths from the 1990 report."

Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000," Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, p. 1242.


An estimated 3 million individuals in the United States have serious drug problems. Overall, we estimate that illicit drug use resulted in approximately 17000 deaths in 2000, a reduction of 3000 deaths from the 1990 report."


That's a whole lot of estimation going on there. For all we know, they could have easily jockied those numbers to make it look like America was winning the "War on Drugs". On top of that, the crime related numbers they get will likely be skewed before they even touch them, since I doubt crime scene reports have a checkbox that says "Drug Related".



(1996): "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)

Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, "Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice," Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15sep97/nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, "Assessing and understanding patient risk," Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.

This is bad data. Asprin has known allergies, is used EXPONENTIALLY more than just about every illict drug, and is readily available over the counter... meaning that there will be a great many people that self-medicate rather that seeking a health care professional. That's just a recipe for disaster. Just because asprin and other NSAIDs have saftey issues doesn't make marijuana any more or less safe.

An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.

Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.

"Illicit drug use is associated with suicide, homicide, motor-vehicle injury, HIV infection, pneumonia, violence, mental illness, and hepatitis". Funny how this source completely neglects these causes of death realted to it's use.. despite the fact that the AMA sees them as viable.

[magilacudy]

I'm not a pothead but I would be too lazy to pick apart all those stats and type it up report-style like JSweeney did. Good job... quite an interesting read.

[Quackzilla]

Actually, you could probably get an aneuryism from smoking too much pot.

But thats only if you smoke a lot without taking a break.

[jdpimp]

Summarized: All of these facts do not make marijuana any safer.

True dat, but does it make it any more harmful?

/devil's advocate

[stonedgamer]

www.erowid.org is also a good site for REAL facts about drugs
I'm not some pro-drug loser, I hate alcohol with a passion seeing lots people lose a lot to alcohol.
1:3 wreckless drivers tested positive for marijuana
Well if that were true marijuana stays in the system for a few weeks.
That doesn't necessarily mean the user was high at the time, of course they don't mention that.
And nobody has posted a site with facts they just seem to be getting there information probably from what they think.
In conclusion...eating marijuana is safer than taking a tylenol...I rest my case

[drunken_master]

hay yall anti-pot dudes. You all like LOTR right???

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/merrypipe.jpg


They fucking... smoked out all the time in there. And another thing, by the time all of thoes bad smoking related thingies start hurting the majority of the people on this bord, (UNDER 30) thanks to all of thoes wonderfull docters will have cures and preventions readaly avalable to ANYONE.

WAIT.. Gotta take a hit.

so anyway weed isn't for everybody but if you are worried about it killing u you shouldn't be.

[magilacudy]

.And another thing, by the time all of thoes bad smoking related thingies start hurting the majority of the people on this bord, (UNDER 30) thanks to all of thoes wonderfull docters will have cures and preventions readaly avalable to ANYONE.


That's true! I mean, cigarettes have been around a lot longer than marijuana and those wonderful doctors already gave us cures for lung cancer and emphysema.

Oh wait, they haven't? Never mind.

[stonedgamer]

Why is this topic still going?
Evidence shows marijuana is no more harmful or addictive than alcohol. Legalization would make marijuana use safer, and it would reduce costs incurred in arrests, trials, and incarcerations of many non-violent criminals. It would also allow for new revenue from a tax like that on cigarettes. This is both a budget issue, and a common sense issue.

[Mr Unoriginal]

Why is this topic still going?
Evidence shows marijuana is no more harmful or addictive than alcohol. Legalization would make marijuana use safer, and it would reduce costs incurred in arrests, trials, and incarcerations of many non-violent criminals. It would also allow for new revenue from a tax like that on cigarettes. This is both a budget issue, and a common sense issue.

I had no idea the solution was this simple! Thanks for clearing it up. And your screen name assures me that you are making an unbiased opinion on the subject.

[wookieballz]

Actually, I doubt he came to that conclusion on his own...seeing as how he pulled that enlightened viewpoint directly from one of my own posts.

This really is a tiresome issue. Pot-heads will stay pot-heads because it's so damn hard to educate them, and the educated will never come to the pot-head's way of thinking because we know better.

Though, I find it mildly to my amusement that a certain unnamed pot-head was so ready to embrace an ideology expressed by one of the aforementioned educated folks, perhaps mistaking it as his own.

[JSweeney]

www.erowid.org is also a good site for REAL facts about drugs
I'm not some pro-drug loser, I hate alcohol with a passion seeing lots people lose a lot to alcohol.
1:3 wreckless drivers tested positive for marijuana
Well if that were true marijuana stays in the system for a few weeks.
That doesn't necessarily mean the user was high at the time, of course they don't mention that.
And nobody has posted a site with facts they just seem to be getting there information probably from what they think.
In conclusion...eating marijuana is safer than taking a tylenol...I rest my case

That's a false contention. It's use is nowhere near the level of the use of NSIADs, and to compare the occurances of negative side effects is ludicrous at best. It is not safer than asprin, especially now. Asprin has carefully mandated rules and regulations covering everything to dosage size and quality.

Don't even bother with the medical arguments.. they really aren't all that compelling. Every pro source has at least two con sources that are just as compelling. If you're going to try arguing it at all, you should look into personal liberty issues and the like. They'd reasonate quite well right now, with so many people getting paranoid over "big government".

And nobody has posted a site with facts they just seem to be getting there information probably from what they think.

That's because your statements and the information you provided was mostly tenous at best, and easily discredited by showing simple logical falacies in it using "common knowledge". There are many other qood sites, and plausible arguments. You just didn't happent to use them.

1:3 wreckless drivers tested positive for marijuana
Well if that were true marijuana stays in the system for a few weeks.
That doesn't necessarily mean the user was high at the time, of course they don't mention that.
That isn't an argument you want to make, as it detracts from your point more than it helps establish it. That data shows a pattern of recklessness and perhaps even diminished mental faculty and capacity.. not exactly a huge boon to your argument.

In conclusion...eating marijuana is safer than taking a tylenol...I rest my case

A non-regulated psychoactive drug is less harmful than a strictly regulated, widely used and accepted drug. Do you realize how foolish that sounds? With nothing regulating the amount of psychoactive chemicals in it, you take a risk every time you use it. Not to mention that since you circumvent legal channels to aquire it, you can't say with any certainty that it won't be laced with harder drugs, pesticides, etc.

Rest your case? You've proven very little, and most of your assertions are tenous at best. It'd be foolhardy to do that. Unless of course, you just heard that on one of the lawyer related TV shows and thought it would be clever to say.

[greendj27]

www.erowid.org is also a good site for REAL facts about drugs
I'm not some pro-drug loser, I hate alcohol with a passion seeing lots people lose a lot to alcohol.
1:3 wreckless drivers tested positive for marijuana
Well if that were true marijuana stays in the system for a few weeks.
That doesn't necessarily mean the user was high at the time, of course they don't mention that.
And nobody has posted a site with facts they just seem to be getting there information probably from what they think.
In conclusion...eating marijuana is safer than taking a tylenol...I rest my case

That's a false contention. It's use is nowhere near the level of the use of NSIADs, and to compare the occurances of negative side effects is ludicrous at best. It is not safer than asprin, especially now. Asprin has carefully mandated rules and regulations covering everything to dosage size and quality.

Don't even bother with the medical arguments.. they really aren't all that compelling. Ever pro source has at least two con sources that are just as compelling. If you're going to try arguing it at all, you should look into personal liberty issues and the like. They'd reasonate quite well right now, with so many people getting paranoid over "big government".

And nobody has posted a site with facts they just seem to be getting there information probably from what they think.

That's because your statements and the information you provided was mostly tenous at best, and easily discredited by showing simple logical falacies in it using "common knowledge". There are many other qood sites, and plausible arguments. You just didn't happent to use them.

1:3 wreckless drivers tested positive for marijuana
Well if that were true marijuana stays in the system for a few weeks.
That doesn't necessarily mean the user was high at the time, of course they don't mention that.
That isn't an argument you want to make, as it detracts from your point more than it helps establish it. That data shows a pattern of recklessness and perhaps even diminished mental faculty and capacity.. not exactly a huge boon to your argument.

In conclusion...eating marijuana is safer than taking a tylenol...I rest my case

A non-regulated psychoactive drug is less harmful than a strictly regulated, widely used and accepted drug. Do you realize how foolish that sounds? With nothing regulating the amount of psychoactive chemicals in it, you take a risk every time you use it. Not to mention that since you circumvent legal channels to aquire it, you can't say with any certainty that it won't be laced with harder drugs, pesticides, etc.

Rest your case? You've proven very little, and most of your assertions are tenous at best. It'd be foolhardy to do that. Unless of course, you just heard that on one of the lawyer related TV shows and thought it would be clever to say.

I just want to say how much I appreciate how well you lay out your case in any disagreement you get into on these boards. You go point by point and and make a clear argument. I don't always agree with you, but I really appreciate the way you handle it.

[JSweeney]

Why is this topic still going?
Evidence shows marijuana is no more harmful or addictive than alcohol. Legalization would make marijuana use safer, and it would reduce costs incurred in arrests, trials, and incarcerations of many non-violent criminals. It would also allow for new revenue from a tax like that on cigarettes. This is both a budget issue, and a common sense issue.

I hate when people state this, because they think it makes them sound intelligent and reasonable. It still neglects multiple facets of the argument.
Specification without implementation is almost worthless.
How would it be regulated? Taxed?

If it's a purely budgetary issue, will the future costs of the negative effects be comletely defrayed by the tax gain? Or will there be another burden tossed directly into the laps of taxpayers? It may be no more harmful than alcohol, but there sure to seem to be a lot of AA meetings around.
Is there any infrastructure in place that could handle a similar situation? Would the taxes be enough to cover that?

Cigarettes are still smuggled to avoid higher taxes. It would be almost folly to suggest that the same thing wouldn't be happening. The idea of getting rid of the black market on it vastly overstated at best. There would still be noviolent offenders being jailed, just as there are with cigarettes and alchol.

Common Sense? Parents and the government can't control the underage use of alchol and cigarettes. You think throwing the floodgates open on this will make enforcement of those and this any easier?

I could care less what grown adults do in the privacy of thier own home, provided that it doesn't harm others, but legalization would not so easily cure all the harms and ills that you think criminalization has created.

[x0thedeadzone0x]

I can understand what you're saying, Jsweeney... but the fact is, if somebody wants to smoke pot, they don't not do it because it's "illegal". That won't stop them if they've come to that decision by then, for most anyways. It certainly seems the most sensible thing to do to legalize it, yet once you do people will be smuggling left and right once there's an age limit (probably will be.. 18 i'm guessing) and there's so many people smoking already that it's already out of control. So if they legalize it, A. The government will have to admit that they were wrong, and its not a deadly biohazard as they described it at first (which will never happen) and B. Marijuana usage will triple, quadruple, everyone will be doing it that thought it was dangerous before because if it's "good enough to be legal" then it can't be harmful, right? But that's how the American mind works, really. It's better to keep it illegal because its spinning out of control as it is. Even though, yes, it's not a deadly biohazardous waste. Though kids,
Don't shoot heroin
And that's all i have to say...

[evilmax17]

I can understand what you're saying, Jsweeney... but the fact is, if somebody wants to smoke pot, they don't not do it because it's "illegal". That won't stop them if they've come to that decision by then, for most anyways. It certainly seems the most sensible thing to do to legalize it, yet once you do people will be smuggling left and right once there's an age limit (probably will be.. 18 i'm guessing) and there's so many people smoking already that it's already out of control. So if they legalize it, A. The government will have to admit that they were wrong, and its not a deadly biohazard as they described it at first (which will never happen) and B. Marijuana usage will triple, quadruple, everyone will be doing it that thought it was dangerous before because if it's "good enough to be legal" then it can't be harmful, right? But that's how the American mind works, really. It's better to keep it illegal because its spinning out of control as it is. Even though, yes, it's not a deadly biohazardous waste. Though kids,
Don't shoot heroin
And that's all i have to say...

Uhhh, in response to deadly biowaste, and if something is legal then it's not "that deadly"....Cigarette's have always been legal. Do i even have to finish my arguement?