CAGcast #210: The Perfect Length

[CheapyD]

15060[/IMG-L]This week's big topics include: Metroid: Other M, game length vs. value (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/08/more-in-the-bottle-the-dubious-value-of-game-length.ars), Game Room missteps, Move, Kinect, the latest game shopping and industry news, your CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382) and Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/cheapyd) questions and so much more.

119
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Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):
Intro: Press Your Luck theme

The Video Game Release List of 8/21 - 8/27 (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65254)


Amazon stops selling XBLA games (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/23/amazon-no-longer-selling-xbox-live-arcade-games-as-gamestop-beg/)
Value vs. Game Length (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/08/more-in-the-bottle-the-dubious-value-of-game-length.ars)

Is this gaming's biggest ever waste of money? (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=261533)

DeathSpank sequel in September (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/23/deathspank-thongs-of-virtue-sequel-coming-to-xbla-psn-in-sept/)

Torchlight hopefully out on XBLA and PSN by holidays (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/21/torchlight-hopefully-out-on-xbla-and-psn-by-holidays-has-sold/)

Krome Studios Confirms Financial Troubles, Future Remains Undecided [Updated] (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65276)

Sony’s Bet on Sticking With Web Shows (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/business/media/23crackle.html?_r=1)


GameStop debuts a “store of the future” as online threat looms (http://games.venturebeat.com/2010/08/24/gamestop-debuts-a-store-of-the-future-as-online-threat-looms/)



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Outro: Sky Shark (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=6258)
(http://twitpic.com/1921lx)

[ChuckNoLuck]

Early CAGcast!!!!!!

[iKilledChewbacca]

YAY I love early CAG cast !!

[ShockandAww]

Thanks I was bored I needed something to listen to.

[ch3zyp00fs]

awesome. something for the work day tomorrow.

[Indignate]

Just finished up last weeks show and gonna start on this right away.

Any reason why the font size for the note section is all screwy?

[raistlin]

Cheapy, have you tried Eve Online? After hearing your description of the kind of sci fi type game you'd like to play, I'd say you should check it out since there is a Mac version.

[Master Troll]

Wow so it looks like there are advantages to staying up at 3 in the morning. Thanks Cheapy!

[Bluntsly]

This and a new TRS will get me through the night shift... :)

[KingBroly]

If Shipwreck liked Other M a lot, I wouldn't be surprised since he loves games made by Team Ninja. Whether it be Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, or Metroid. I also hope you aren't implying it's a short game.

Also Cheapy, a price point of $7 is better than $10, however a price point of 560 points is not. I hate the awkward points for DLC on the marketplace.

[reddjoey]

Sweet, something to listen to between classes

[SuxoR]

Awesome new Cagcast just caught up to the latest eps :]

[Bezerker]

Woo, bombcast and CAGcast on the same day

[Wickedsoul]

Great Cagcast.

I have to agree with you guys. I really do not see why some analyst believe that Kinect and Move will sell great. It is way to late to get into the motion control market for this generation. The Wii has dominated that market already for years and just NOW they are trying to break in ? My mom and fiance have a Wii which they play every now and then. None of them even know what the hell Kinect or Move is lol. I in know way consider them to be an excellent sample of the video game population but I consider them to be very casual players and if this were to have caught their interest in any way I probably would have heard about it =P

Can't wait for your review on Metroid: Other M.

For a game like ME2 vehicle base missions are cool... but if a huge portion of the game was based around random space combat, i think it would kill the feeling of ME. However if they were to implement a vehicle mission that involved space combat, I believe I would really enjoy that. It would have to be implemented as a part of the story and specific to only a section of the game. For instance an invasion of a planet or an escape (just examples I know they are cliche :) If they implemented space combat where you just roll up to a ship and engage in combat I would be pretty disappointed.

And to the person that lost his brother and was feeling guilty about using the PS3. Don't do that to yourself. You have to believe that your brother would be happy about you using and enjoying his PS3. Remember he loves you. When you play it... think of the good times you and him may have had playing it together. I'm sorry for your loss.

[shieryda]

Haven't listened yet, but was the Chicago CAG meet-up (Sept. 11 @ The Galloping Ghost Arcade) announced on this episode? Maybe next one (if it wasn't)?

Thanks!

[Hoffer]

I looked up the Miranda cosplay pictures. Don't get me wrong, that chick is 1,000 times hotter than any girl I've been with. Saying that, I was a little disappointed. In game Miranda is way hotter. :)

[Wickedsoul]

HAHA thanks for the reminder forgot to look that up =P

I looked up the Miranda cosplay pictures. Don't get me wrong, that chick is 1,000 times hotter than any girl I've been with. Saying that, I was a little disappointed. In game Miranda is way hotter. :)

[Duck in a Pond]

Awesome can't wait to listen!!!

[smoger]

In regards to the $7 XBLA price point:

Yes, it is more enjoyable than $10, but how much of this stuff would have been $5 a year ago? It seems like $7 is the new $5, and sadly they started moving to that just shortly after finally allowing you to buy $5 and $10 MS Point denominations. Now we're back to the spare change problem again.

To clarify: I think the Overlord DLC was well worth $7, but I can't say the same about the Kasumi mission.(enjoyable, but more palatable at $5). I'm sure Liara DLC will be a little more significant and not regrettable at $10.

[LiK]

I need to defend firehawk12's comment about importing ME1 save to ME2. What I thought he meant about being a Paragon is this: If you imported a ME1 save where you were Paragon and saved the Citadel, it will be mentioned by Miranda in ME2 and you will receive bonus Paragon points which stack with your Paragon points in ME2 and help you out with decisions in which you can side with both party members who are fighting.

From what I remember, if you started out in ME2 without any saves at all, they will mention that you failed at saving the Citadel and you start out as a Renegade by default. It's a big deal in terms of the story, imo. But like Wombat said, we can probably expect this issue to be addressed by Bioware in ME2 for the PS3.

[sublime90]

this is vegas.....wet t shirt mini game!!!!dancing!!!!canceled... *tear rolling down my angry face*

[MannishBoy]

Achievements on the Xbox part of the Win Phone 7 definitely go into your regular gamer score. See the Gizmodo piece here (http://gizmodo.com/5614244/xbox-live-on-windows-phone-7-hands-on-and-first-impressions).

Every Xbox Live game on Windows Phone 7 has a 200 gamerscore, just like Xbox Live Arcade games, and will accrue to your overall gamerscore. That integrated experience is reflected in your Avatar as well: any customizations you make on the phone will be reflected immediately on the console, and vice versa.

Pretty cool.

That said, I'm waiting a year to see how things work out with the phone OS in general. I just bought an android phone last week (EVO).

[LiK]

I support Cheapy's suggestion for space battles in Mass Effect 3. It's the next step! Normandy vs enemy ships would be sweet.

[Aberforth]

I'm actually waiting for Windows Phone 7, and have held off from buying a smart phone until the WP7 OS comes out. My excitement comes from the fact that it will XNA games, and XNA is the easiest to develop games on, imo.
(Disclaimer: I'm basing this on the fact that I have no Mac, but would have to buy one to develop on it. In addition to that I think I remember hearing you have to pay for the development environment. Also, I've never used Objective-C (Android development), but can foresee it being more painful than using C#+XNA)

To fight the late release Microsoft has somewhat told it's developers to make interesting apps (I think I read that on ArsTechnica). Also, I'm assuming they'll learn from the iOS and Andriod marketplaces and keep a close eye on theirs.

However, I won't stand in line to buy a WP7 phone. I'm more cautiously optimistic. I want to see how well it's received before buying one.

[usickenme]

I need to defend firehawk12's comment about importing ME1 save to ME2. What I thought he meant about being a Paragon is this: If you imported a ME1 save where you were Paragon and saved the Citadel, it will be mentioned by Miranda in ME2 and you will receive bonus Paragon points which stack with your Paragon points in ME2 and help you out with decisions in which you can side with both party members who are fighting.
.

I didn't save the citadel in ME1 and still got the options to side with both parties when they are fighting.

When I played on PC w/o importing an ME1 save, I didn't get these options.

[LiK]

I didn't save the citadel in ME1 and still got the options to side with both parties when they are fighting.

When I played on PC w/o importing an ME1 save, I didn't get these options.

You didn't save the Citadel but you were still playing as a Paragon in ME2 right? I think if you continued to choose all Paragon options in ME2 from the beginning, you will still be able to choose both sides during an argument. I only know that you get mega bonus from ME1 so it made it easier to max out Paragon compared to starting out with a blank slate in ME2.

[MSUHitman]

I need to defend firehawk12's comment about importing ME1 save to ME2. What I thought he meant about being a Paragon is this: If you imported a ME1 save where you were Paragon and saved the Citadel, it will be mentioned by Miranda in ME2 and you will receive bonus Paragon points which stack with your Paragon points in ME2 and help you out with decisions in which you can side with both party members who are fighting.

From what I remember, if you started out in ME2 without any saves at all, they will mention that you failed at saving the Citadel and you start out as a Renegade by default. It's a big deal in terms of the story, imo. But like Wombat said, we can probably expect this issue to be addressed by Bioware in ME2 for the PS3.

Yeah exactly what I was going to say. Although I think it has more to do with the Council vs. the Citadel. Also I hope Bioware is doing more than just that "Previously on Mass Effect" video that is on the XBL Marketplace right now for PS3-only users sake.

Although I have a sneaky feeling that The Council will always be dead in Mass Effect 2 games on either platform that start from scratch.

Yeah Cheapy for using the REAL Press Your Luck theme for this show. I'm assumming you'll talk about PYL later in the show (at the Mafia II discussion now) but I'm so pissed off at Ludia. I owned the PC version of the game (later traded on Goozex) and have the IPhone version and they don't use the real theme and the AI is some of the worst I've ever seen. It's sad when the Apple IIe version (the only other time PYL was officially released as a video game) is superior in every sense other than graphics of the version that comes out almost 20 years later.

[LiK]

Yeah exactly what I was going to say. Although I think it has more to do with the Council vs. the Citadel. Also I hope Bioware is doing more than just that "Previously on Mass Effect" video that is on the XBL Marketplace right now for PS3-only users sake.

Although I have a sneaky feeling that The Council will always be dead in Mass Effect 2 games on either platform that start from scratch.

Ah yea, my memory is a lil hazy whether it was about the Citadel itself or the Council decisions specifically. But importing a ME1 Paragon save file definitely had its perks for ME2.

[Buuhan1]

Whoo! Day early! It's funny Wombat said "You have 209 episodes to listen to to find out I'm an ass." cause that's exactly what I've been doing. Up to CAGcast #24 right now.

[usickenme]

I also wanted to mention that I set up my Sync on my new Fusion. All I had to say was "Play Cagcast" to start the show

[beard_of_zeus]

Checked out that Ars Technica article, good read. I totally agree with the author on this one. Especially with not having as much time to play games in the last couple years after graduating from college and having a full-time job, along with other adult responsibilities, I don't like when developers add unnecessary filler to their games just to make them longer. I much prefer a more focused, finely-created experience.

The value of a game (like many things in life) changes so differently from person to person, so it seems useless to argue about it in absolute terms. The amount and types of game content (i.e., different gameplay modes, approximate completion time, etc.) are, in fact, a part of the purchasing decision, but only insofar as these facts needing to be noted by a reviewer or whomever is covering the game. From there, people can judge for themselves whether they want to purchase/play a game.

Also, since Shipwreck mentioned it, just wanted to say I've been playing Ys Seven as well. I'm about 10 hours in, got near the end of the Wind Altar dungeon, couldn't figure out the puzzle though, sadly. Probably going to try to figure it out tonight, fun game! It doesn't go anything revolutionary as an action RPG, but it's definitiely solid.

[AlexLeSage]

Say shmup. WHO CARES!

[thedangerphill]

Cheapy, you should try infinite space on the ds. its all ship and crew customization and big battlestar style ship to ship space action.

[rancest]

Finally something worth listening to. I do not have much to look forward to here in Afghanistan. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[bickle]

Shipwreck, you mentioned that Mafia II isn't a shooter. The demo definitely felt very shooter-heavy. Do you feel that the demo isn't an accurate representation of the game? Just wondering since I really liked the demo, and I want to get in on the Kmart $20 coupon if I decide to pick up the game...

[combatrhombus]

Cheapy you might also like the Spore kinda a space shooter where you can sell different items on different planets and what not...also fun to create your own creatures, but for some reason all my creatures I created seem to have large penises.

I'm very excited for Mass Effect 2 on the PS3! From hearing the CAGcast and the slight problems with the Xbox version that they'll be fixed for the PS3. Also hopefully it will include the DLC for it.

[my2k2zx2]

whould the people with a problem with the Shmup name also have a problem with calling it a Shoot 'em Up?

If abbreviation is the issue, then it would be a Shoot Them Up, right?

[Thomas96]

Good show! I enjoyed this show so much... I ended up going late to work. I had to listen to most of the show before I could leave!

In reference to Mass Effect 3 -
I like Cheapy's idea of adding in some of the Space Combat. Adding in space combat in Mass Effect brought me back to another game - Wing Commander (PSX) where you'd fly a mission and then you'd come back to the main ship and interact with the characters in conversation and your choices during the conversation dictated where the game's story. Mass Effect is just a mixture of genres, so far you have RPG, and 3rd Person shooting, I think that adding in the space combat genre into the game could breathe a lot of new life into the game. It'd be nice if you have a special squadron that works together and does missions togeher. I'd love to see a mission where you're defending the main ship and then at the end of the mission the main ship gets shot down and then you have to harvest minerals form the new planet where you crash landed in order to repair the main ship. I think that your idea is great Cheapy, you're not alone in your thinking. If there is a market for Ace combat then there's still a market for some good space combat, we haven't really had any since Star Wars Jedi StarFighter.



If the 3DS is priced at 199 will people still buy it? I thought that the low price of the DS is what made it sell. At 199, the 3DS will be like another PSP. [Hopefully Sony will release a PSP with dual sticks, and at a price tag that's lower than the 3DS; 150 could be a great price for a new PSP... if they do that, they'll outsell the 3DS... maybe.

How come you guys didn't mention the Ars Technica article where the author indicated that he felt like the PS Move was a better deal than Xbox Kinect due to the cheaper price and the inclusion of a game. [I'm surprised you didn't mention it, since you guys seem to love articles from Ars Technica] http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1119692

I agree with Shipwreck that Length does matter, but I think that people are sometimes to quick to be dismissive of a game if it's short. But me personally, I rather have a nice complete game and not one that tries to create length by having you back track into an area, just to increase the game's length. Ship you reviewed DeathSmiles 49.99 (with some very nice extras) but gave it a very good even though you ran through the game (first run through) in 45 minutes. I'm sorry but for 45 minutes worth of game I don't think that's even worth 10 dollars. (which makes the extras: CD Soundtrack, and Faceplate cost about 40 dollars, imo).

[firehawk12]

Yeah exactly what I was going to say. Although I think it has more to do with the Council vs. the Citadel. Also I hope Bioware is doing more than just that "Previously on Mass Effect" video that is on the XBL Marketplace right now for PS3-only users sake.

Although I have a sneaky feeling that The Council will always be dead in Mass Effect 2 games on either platform that start from scratch.



Ah yea, my memory is a lil hazy whether it was about the Citadel itself or the Council decisions specifically. But importing a ME1 Paragon save file definitely had its perks for ME2.

Yeah, I was all set to post a response but you guys covered it. Thanks! :)
Of course, Shipwreck also wasn't able to see arguably the best character in the Mass Effect franchise - Wrex - because of what the game assumes is true. The fact that the game also assumes that you are Renegade if you start a new character can also be frustrating if you want to play a Paragon.

There are also many small changes, including Kaiden/Ashley, the Rachni queen and various ME1 NPCs including the Thorian Asari among others that you will just miss if you jump into ME2 without importing. I agree that most of it is pointless email BS, but there's some "flavor" that you miss out on.

Also, I thank Cheapy for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Mass Effect 3 could be a 3DS game for all I care - that's not what matters to me. I just think that if you are a "fan" of the Mass Effect franchise, you'd want the optimum experience. Given how tame the connectivity from ME1 to ME2 was at launch, I can't imagine that they'd spend money creating a whole new character creation process just for PS3 users.

And yes, you also get a substantial Paragon/Renegade bonus for importing a level 60 character. Although, if you min/max your conversations, it's entirely possible (if not difficult) to max out one of the bars on a standard, non-import playthrough.

Finally, I'm going to assume Wombat was just shitting me... but someone remind me to make a smart ass comment the next time he talks about some trivial matter concerning some comic book super hero that only he cares about. ;)



In reference to Mass Effect 3 -
I like Cheapy's idea of adding in some of the Space Combat. Adding in space combat in Mass Effect brought me back to another game - Wing Commander (PSX) where you'd fly a mission and then you'd come back to the main ship and interact with the characters in conversation and your choices during the conversation dictated where the game's story. Mass Effect is just a mixture of genres, so far you have RPG, and 3rd Person shooting, I think that adding in the space combat genre into the game could breathe a lot of new life into the game. It'd be nice if you have a special squadron that works together and does missions togeher. I'd love to see a mission where you're defending the main ship and then at the end of the mission the main ship gets shot down and then you have to harvest minerals form the new planet where you crash landed in order to repair the main ship. I think that your idea is great Cheapy, you're not alone in your thinking. If there is a market for Ace combat then there's still a market for some good space combat, we haven't really had any since Star Wars Jedi StarFighter.

I hope it's not too spoilery, but Fallout 3 (via Mothership Zeta) had space bound ship to ship combat where you played captain of a ship and had to order people to fire weapons and transfer shield power and all that. I wouldn't mind that kind of combat being introduced into ME3... but a full blown space sim might be too much.

I know CheapyD can't do PC gaming anymore, but Darkstar One for the PC is like 5 dollars now so that would be a really easy and cheap way to try out the game.

[RichMeisterMan]

I would think that in ME2 on PS3 they might expand the interview with Miranda and Jacob that goes on when you're on your way to first meet the Illusive Man.

Speaking of Illusive Man, is anyone annoyed by the way Shepard says it in the game? Like I know the guy is called Illusive Man, but I hate how he says it like Illusive is a proper noun instead of an adjective which I guess in this case is right, but I just think he sounds dumb and he's the only one that says it that way! Nitpicking...I know.

Also, the Scott Pilgrim game is awesome. Totally worth the 10 bucks.

[firehawk12]

I would think that in ME2 on PS3 they might expand the interview with Miranda and Jacob that goes on when you're on your way to first meet the Illusive Man.

Speaking of Illusive Man, is anyone annoyed by the way Shepard says it in the game? Like I know the guy is called Illusive Man, but I hate how he says it like Illusive is a proper noun instead of an adjective which I guess in this case is right, but I just think he sounds dumb and he's the only one that says it that way! Nitpicking...I know.

Also, the Scott Pilgrim game is awesome. Totally worth the 10 bucks.

That would lead me to ask the obvious question - why didn't they do that for the PC/360 version of the game? For whatever reason, the writers wanted the Renegade Shepard options from ME1 to be the canon. I'm not sure why though, other than the fact that most games assume you choose the "good ending" so I guess they wanted to try something different.

You know, I always just assumed that the Illusive Man just refers to that as his name, which is why everyone uses Illusive as a proper noun.

[bickle]

The fact that the game also assumes that you are Renegade if you start a new character can also be frustrating if you want to play a Paragon.

It assumes that your character made some renegade decisions, which is quite different from saying that it assumes your character *is* a Renegade. And it doesn't hamper the ability to play as Paragon one iota.

[Thomas96]

I hope it's not too spoilery, but Fallout 3 (via Mothership Zeta) had space bound ship to ship combat where you played captain of a ship and had to order people to fire weapons and transfer shield power and all that. I wouldn't mind that kind of combat being introduced into ME3... but a full blown space sim might be too much.


You may be right, about having a full blown space sim integrated into the game. But I think that if you do too little of it, then people will feel like its "tacked on."

[Shibby2142]

I liked how Wombat used my comment from last week about the more monorail train and less Wombat. Hah! :applause:

-Shibby

[MattJ1991]

i gotta say that I'm on your side with the space combat in Mass Effect 3 Cheapy, Wombat and Shipwreck were to quick to say no and I think you had some valid ideas.

[SINNED]

whould the people with a problem with the Shmup name also have a problem with calling it a Shoot 'em Up?

If abbreviation is the issue, then it would be a Shoot Them Up, right?

'em is an abbreviation/slang. Shmup is an acronym. Like I said, its like pronouncing the acronyms omg or wtf. You heard how bad it sounded when Wombat tried to pronounce them it. All my life ive never heard anyone pronounce "shmup", its just a short way to typing it, not pronouncing it.

[firehawk12]

You may be right, about having a full blown space sim integrated into the game. But I think that if you do too little of it, then people will feel like its "tacked on."

Yeah, that's true. But if the Hammerhead is any indication of how they would do vehicle stuff, maybe it's for the best that they just try to ignore that stuff as much as possible. I do agree that they need something to break up the monotony of the shooting though. I've finished the game three times to prep characters for ME3 and there's no question that the game is very, very boring once you figure out how to exploit the combat. They really need more things to do than just shooting people.

It assumes that your character made some renegade decisions, which is quite different from saying that it assumes your character *is* a Renegade. And it doesn't hamper the ability to play as Paragon one iota.

Well, I choose to believe that some of the decisions you make in ME1 will play out in ME3. I could be deluded and BioWare may have no plans whatsoever, but after they dropped the ball in ME2, I have to imagine that they'll try to make up for it.

It's also probably just me, but I can't play schizophrenic characters because it's fairly inconsistent. After being a space asshole in ME1, your Shepard suddenly decides to be good in ME2? That just doesn't make sense to me.

If you don't care about the fate of characters or how the story plays out, that's fine. But then you're not "role playing", you're just playing an average third person shooter with cover mechanics.

[MSUHitman]

Who won the Ys code from ep. 209?

Cheapy I'm torn on space combat in Mass Effect, but if done right, it would be awesome. Depending on how Bungie does with the space combat in Reach, I hope that:

1. They put it as a multiplayer mode. I wouldn't even mind paying for it.
2. EA has Bungie relaunch the Wing Commander IP.

[nateeasy29]

I appreciate you guys don't fell the need to dedicate 20 minutes of every show to Starcraft2. Seems like every other podcast has.

[DarkZion]

If there is to be any kind of space combat in Mass Effect 2, I'd prefer if it were to be done via cutscene or quick time event. Have it initiate as a conversation with an enemy ship and either resolve it peacefully or have it turn into a full scale battle where you have options on what action to take. But I completely dislike the idea of it being something similar to Star Fox gameplay.

I'd rather have them focus on improving things they already have instead of trying to implement something into the game that may not work well (I don't want another Mako experience).

[killthemall4444]

I just feel the need to point out Cheapy wasn't being completely fair when he claimed that the dlc add on, Demons of the the Badlands, for RFG was only an hour and a half long. Sure if you just play the main missions that's about all it would take but there's more to it then that. It's a whole new sector filled with all sorts of thing to do such as a significant amount of of new Guerilla Actions. The new demolition stuff in particular is quite good. I mean in the end it's more of the same but there's a good four or five hours worth of content in there at least. I certainly felt I got my ten bucks worth.

[drew327]

Don't worry Mr. D, all of that stuff will be in Mass Effect Online

[drew327]

Might I recommend www.gamerankings.com over Metacritic- its much cleaner/faster

[banodyne]

I don't like to hear any developer laying off employees but I'm not going to shed too many tears for Krome Studios. Seeing their name in the credits is like seeing the Wayans Bros on the marquee of a movie. You know it's going to be crap but somehow they keep getting work. Hellboy The Science of Evil is the buggiest game I ever played on my 360. It crashed every 15 minutes. I have no idea how that game passed cert. Star Wars Lighsaber Duels took a concept people had been begging for on the Wii and buggered it. Their Transformers Revenge of the Fallen game at least lived up to the quality level of the movie it was based on. (Yeah, that's saarcasm.) And finally Game Room with the f***ed up downloading game packs system you mention. Who but Krome would port 20 year old arcade and 2600 games to a modern Xbox 360 game system where the games would take half-second pauses like it somehow strained the system.

[bickle]

Shmup is an acronym.

An acronym is a word formed from the initial letters of a name. Shmup is not an acronym. Shmup is just all three words smashed together so they can be said in one syllable.

[Wombat]

'em is an abbreviation/slang. Shmup is an acronym. Like I said, its like pronouncing the acronyms omg or wtf. You heard how bad it sounded when Wombat tried to pronounce them it. All my life ive never heard anyone pronounce "shmup", its just a short way to typing it, not pronouncing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkKSrVwZDOM

[HellsAttack]

i gotta say that I'm on your side with the space combat in Mass Effect 3 Cheapy, Wombat and Shipwreck were to quick to say no and I think you had some valid ideas.

I've heard Shipwreck praise much worse games than space flight sims, I don't know where he was coming from brushing off the entire genre. Tie Fighter is one of the best PC games of all time and we haven't had any games like it in awhile. There have been a few with lower budgets, but I'm really craving a AAA space flight sim.

[youruglyclone]

thanks wombat now I'll know not to buy xbla arcade games from gamestop...cause I can't keep a receipt for the life of me.

[go Eagle go]

Great show again, would like to just give a small shout to my gf Penny who is also a real trooper when it comes to my wittering about games, podcasts, superhero fantasies, post apocalyptic stratergies and all manner of other things she has no real interest in.

[LiK]

I appreciate you guys don't fell the need to dedicate 20 minutes of every show to Starcraft2. Seems like every other podcast has.

since only Cheapy played it, not much for them to discuss. curse you Wombat and Shippy! *shakes fist*

[Mahoney07]

Cheapy I agree that Mass Effect 3 needs to innovate and not just polish.

One small change that would be awesome is for Bioware to steal how a ship moves to different solar systems in EVE online. In eve, when you go from place to place it animates it amazingly well instead of having a corny little star map with a toy ship

Also you guys should try gamerankings. I like that sites design

[PhaperPlane]

Another excellent show guys!
Cheapy, I have an iPhone game recommendation. It's called Godville - a massively-multiplayer zero-player game. You don't have to do much and it's very amusing to see what your hero gets up to. You can play it in your browser or on your phone. I'd like to hear what you think because I'm enjoying it.

[StriderNo9]

Once again Cheapy and Wombat really have no idea about what they are talking about. You know it's funny, Cheapy goes out of his way to talk about how Kotaku doesn't fact check their stories, but they have topics that have been brought up multiple times yet still rather talk about it with very little knowledge.

1) It's Android not Droid

2) There is a Droid R2D2 model coming out, look it up.

3) Read any preview on Windows Phone 7 and it's glowing, people are excited and it's been said many many times, OF COURSE gamer score will carry over.

C'mon guys, you may not have to know everything but damn know something about the topics you are talking about. Little googling goes a long way.

[FakeKisser]

I just wanted to say that I am also waiting for Windows Phone 7 and have not bought an Android or iPhone in order to wait for WP7.

The two reasons are for the XNA integration and the fact that Microsoft is making the phone super easy to create apps for. I've also read that it will be the easier than for Android or iPhone (though I obviously can't confirm that will actually be true).

Microsoft is going to spend their money to try and make this a success. No, it didn't work for Zune, but it did work for Xbox. So, I think they do have a chance.

Also, I have also seen a lot of excited press about WP7. We'll have to wait and see if it lives up to expectations, but I am definitely waiting!

[Aberforth]

To add to the previous posts, for those unfamiliar with the XNA framework, one of its biggest strengths is that applications written using it can be easily ported from the PC, Xbox360, ZuneHD2 (I think), and WP7. Also the framework was designed with video creation in mind, especially for the hobbyist. And best of all the development tools are free.

[Kezmer]

Wombat had the best one liner I've heard in a long time. "Oooo Dark Hole... stay away from that" that was a riot, i think it went over Cheapy and Ship's heads. I don't know why but that made me laugh my ass off

[FriskyTanuki]

DeathSpank takes about 10-12 hours to do everything, though the in-game timer doesn't count time in dialog.

I'll be getting the second game because I enjoyed the game a lot and want more. The second Penny Arcade Adventures episode sold a lot worse than the first, so getting the next game out sooner should help get the attention of the people that are finishing up the first game as the news came out.

I guess I don't care enough about Halo Reach or the other retail games that are coming this fall that I'd ignore downloadable games completely for the rest of the year.

I'd rather have games be as long as they need to be instead of adding on fluff so it's long enough for the number crunchers to find it a financially responsible purchase.

Good show.

[Ravenduo]

In the last two weeks I just finished Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 (and they were awesome!). I'm getting ready to play Fallout 3 next. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who takes forever to complete these massive games.

[zkelton]

Great show guys; inspired me to write an iTunes review.

zk1

[RichMeisterMan]

I remember being balls deep into fallout 3. I got to the basement of some random place; The Roosevelt School/Library or something like that. I saved with the intention of picking it back up in a few hours and haven't touched it since. This was a month or two after launch. Funny how that happens. :-/

[Thorn]

WickedSoul: Thanks, man. It's been very hard. The dreams are the worse part. I have some dreams where he tells me everything's okay and then the last dream I had he wanted his PS3 back, lol.

It's been rough cuz we were the only gamers in a family of 6; our ideologies were completely different in every way but we could always talk games.

Thanks guys for answering my question. I appreciate it so much. It definitely helped me feel a little bit more at ease. And also, I agree with the other posters - thank you so much for not going on and on and on about friggin Starcraft 2. I love StarCraft but I'm just so dang sick of hearing podcasts talk about it.

Great show, guys. Love you guys.

[misterine]

great show...
btw why is it called the perfect length

http://images.memegenerator.net/Wombat/ImageMacro/2302711/Hey-guys-im-an-asshole-If-you-havent-figured-that-out-yet-then-listen-to-the-past-200-episodes-of-th.jpg

[Microshock]

great show...
btw why is it called the perfect length

http://images.memegenerator.net/Wombat/ImageMacro/2302711/Hey-guys-im-an-asshole-If-you-havent-figured-that-out-yet-then-listen-to-the-past-200-episodes-of-th.jpg

Oh boy, CAG'ers trying to do 4chan memes. How GRAND.

Yeah, leave it to the pros.

I thought it was a decent show. Try to get Jeff Green on as a guest!

[saunderscowie]

I completely agree with Cheapy on the $7 DLC topic. He's right theres just something about seeing DLC up for 560 instead of 800 thats appealing - and not the saving of $3 (whatever £). It just seems alot more reasonable and you feel alot less ripped off after you play it. I really wish it happened more often because i'd definitely pick up more DLC.

On Arcade Room - maybe a buying scheme that works like this. "Mix and match" - you go into Arcade Room (or whatever its called) and you can select say six different games "mixing and matching" then you can checkout with a set charge of say $7. I think that might work because when you mention the phrase "monthly subscription" most people declare themselves out.

Also on the ME3 topic, I agree with Cheapy again minus the whole flying the ship bit. I think the game just needs a more open world with much more depth - not just land on a planet, linear path, leave planet. Kinda more MMOy, without the "MO".

Anyway great show and keep up the good work!

[RichMeisterMan]

I don't want to fly a ship in Mass Effect. If they want to break up monotony how about they make an element where you raise an army and give you a home base on some moon or planet somewhere. Maybe for the big final battle I'll need more than just my team to do in the reapers.

So I can cruise the galaxy recruiting soldiers from all over. Maybe even take a page out of metal gear peace walker and let you send your army on smaller missions where they can bring back credits, resources, recruit more soldiers, etc. while you're out and about doing missions for the big picture. Maybe even the base can come under attack from time to time so you have to swoop in and take care of some geth or whatever. And how about let us design the base the to our liking. I'm not talking some weak ass shit where in the end everyone's home base looks the same. I'm talking add guns and different facilities on your compound how you want so that you can show your friends your base and it's going to look different than theirs.

I don't want to drive around a vehicle. That shit sucks.

[banodyne]

In line with your discussion about how the CAGcast used to rule the Digg podcast reviews, in addition to asking listeners to review the show on iTunes you should also ask them to review the CAGcast on the Zune Marketplace (http://social.zune.net/podcast/CAGcast/eced427f-3570-4bcd-9e2f-6ac57e05aa82). (Psst, you don't have to have a Zune. Anyone with a Windows Live ID, like from Xbox Live or Hotmail, can log on to the Zune.net website.) Better to be a big fish in a small pond and all that. Plus think of all those newcomers to the Zune Marketplace when Windows Phone 7 launches. They'll see the CAGcast would be the most reviewed podcast there.

[shieryda]

Are the models in the centerfolds really from the 1950's? They look way too good (and modern) to be from that era. Are we sure they're not current models? I mean, even the bush was nicely trimmed, and we know that wasn't the style back then.

I, for one, am disappointed that "This is Vegas" was cancelled (even though I had heard the rumor several months ago and was bracing myself for the confirmation). There was even a CAG user who posted a thread about how Amazon supposedly shipped his copy, and the anticipation by other members was through the roof. Ironic that Wombat mentioned "Saw" during that segment of the CAGcast, because the CAG user actually received that exact game instead of his copy of the much-hyped Vegas game.

[shinryuu]

When Cheapy was describing Starflight, it almost sounded like he was describing another fun scifi game-- Star Control 2. I don't think the space combat in Star Control 2 would work in Mass Effect 2 (outdated among other things), but it would definitely be a different take than say the space flight combat games that have already been mentioned (Wing Commander, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter, etc.). You can customize the main ship with weapons, fuel, crew (HP), storage space (for minerals), etc. Along with your main ship, you had other ships from allied aliens that you could use in a space fight. I could go on and on but I think it'll just sound like I want Mass Effect to be the new Star Control. In terms of space exploration, dialogue options, and encountering different aliens, Star Control 2 does remind me most of those aspects from the ME series.

I could see ME adding space combat, but I think they either have to do it all out or not at all. If they can't nail on-foot combat (honestly, I thought the original did a better job), I don't think they would nail space combat.

[shipwreck]

Are the models in the centerfolds really from the 1950's? They look way too good (and modern) to be from that era. Are we sure they're not current models? I mean, even the bush was nicely trimmed, and we know that wasn't the style back then.

I think I read that they were actually from the 1960s mostly.

[Z_meista]

Good show guys. :applause: I don't like Wombat's new hum during the GoDaddy plug. Go back to the original Wombat or go fuck yourself!:D

And by the way...


1) It's Android not Droid

Android is the OS. A Droid is a phone made by Motorola.

[shieryda]

Good show guys. :applause: I don't like Wombat's new hum during the GoDaddy plug. Go back to the original Wombat or go fuck yourself!:D



Was it the theme from the "Star Trek" tv series?

[Blackout]

Good show.

As far as Mafia 2, I haven't really read a review that mentioned the similarities to the first game, probably because nobody played the game and/or did their homework. I haven't played Mafia 2 myself, but I'd rate the game lower than it is for not making any significant changes in over 7 years. That's just incredibly lame. Good going for pointing that out Ship.

Hey Cheapy, you know what's better than $7 DLC? $5 DLC.

There's no way in hell I'd pay for a subscription service for Game Room, especially since you can probably find most of those games on various collections already. You already pay for Xbox Live. I don't see why someone would want to pay for an additional subscription on top of that every month for games that came out 30 years ago when you can get them way cheaper than a subscription fee other places, or even play some of them for free in your web browser.

[Thorn]

Hey Shipwreck, mind if I add you to my PSN list?

[Xeigrich]

I was going to say, I would love to see more vehicle based gameplay in the Mass Effect series, and then I recall how Mass Effect 1's little "exploration" moon buggy (the Mako) missions were my absolute least favorite part of the game. If they had done it differently, for example if that darn rover were upgradeable or if there was more to do aside from struggle up mountains and shoot at enemies, then it would've been far better. At higher levels, it was far easier to simply get out of the buggy and fight enemies on foot than to use the mounted weapons, which felt a little backward. Borderlands suffered from the same problem, with the vehicles' shields increasing insignificantly relevant to your level. At level 50 (or 61 with General Knoxx), many of the enemies can blow up your vehicle within seconds, your mounted weapons are like pea shooters against their shields, and even running them over does pathetic damage. I don't understand why it's so rare to see the vehicles also scale up in games where your character becomes gradually stronger and enemies scale up accordingly.

It feels like a strange comparison, but the Gummi Ship from the original Kingdom Hearts comes to mind as a decent example; obviously you wouldn't be sticking geometric shapes to your ship in Mass Effect but that sort of snap-on customization can be appealing if it's done right

Has anybody put serious time into Infinite Space (a turn-based space strategy/RPG for the DS)? I haven't played it but it seems like it would fill the upgradeable spaceship roleplaying niche nicely. Actually I might go find some reviews now... my interest has been piqued.

By the way, I'm writing an iTunes review right after this post!

[canestim]

Good show, thanks for the ipod/iphone stuff for kids. Pocket Sounds is also a good one to keep them occupied for a bit. Cheapy I can totally relate, it's perfect for saving those fussy times at dinner.

[DQT]

I haven't even bothered listening to this week's show yet since I'm behind, but I have to say the Audioboo today with the book reading was adorable and hilarious.

[FriskyTanuki]

Whenever Shipwreck has an embargoed review he can't talk about, Cheapy and Wombat should play a game of "Guess the Score" to guess what rating he'll give the game.

[Gamer SDP]

I don't recall any references to the title while listening to the show, though I did listen a few days ago.

On GS' "store of the future" remodel, I went to one last week and noticed they had dlc cards. Also when I asked to check my credit balance, the guy showed me that interactive screen. Didn't really see what it could do besides a customer swiping their edge card to show balance. The guy thought the whole 'store of the future" gimmick "is kinda gay".

[Fjordson]

Great episode, fellas.

Also, I can see why some people aren't totally into the structure ME 2. A lot of is just one big recruitment tour (albeit a great one) but I think part of this is gearing up for ME 3. I don't know who Bioware will have show up in the third game, or whether they'll just go by who you saved at the end of the second game, but I don't think you'll have to worry about more of the same. I imagine it'll be a totally different experience, mostly focusing on finishing the fight against the Reapers or possibly the Illusive Man. I don't trust that dude.

[HungryButcher]

It's good to hear you guys going back and playing older games, like Fallout 3. Anyone looking forward to Fallout: New Vegas? Wombat???

Great show as usual. Thanks for the entertainment.

[kashwashwa]

All I can say is thank goodness nobody from the Cagcast is a designer on Mass Effect 3. I do kinda feel where cheapy is going, but just don't think it fully fits the Mass Effect universe that well.

I think what they should do more of, is non-combat gameplay (think back to Noveria in Mass Effect 1 - I want stuff to do like this: http://guides.ign.com/guides/718963/page_116.html).

I'm just so bloody sick of being a space marine shooting the same shit over and over and over and. . .

[ditchell]

not directly related to this specific podcast, but I'd like to congratulate Shipwreck on going from "that guy who actually uses Excel for his video game collection" to international shit stirrer on twitter. following his tweets requires popcorn. Wombat needs to step his game up.

[greydt]

Cheapy's "Starflight in Mass Effect world" would be great if it was for a separate game, but not actually be ME3. Based on the tone and play style of ME1 & ME2, it would be odd to have the game suddenly become exploratory in the way he described (but it might be cool to explore the ME universe in that way, in another new ME game, after the events of ME3...) - as per Wombat, I'd prefer Bioware use their resources to make the existing gameplay more refined and better, rather than suddenly introducing another mechanic.

Shipwreck - Not sure if you want to get into the Elemental: War on Magic bruhah 'cause the fanboys on the official site might hunt you down if you don't somehow love the game ;) . However, I do recommend you read into what's happening with the whole situation with that game: it's another interesting gaming cautionary tale, with some interesting elements involved (since it involves an indie dev with strong cred, the question of an unfinished game being released, the place of patching, etc.).

[4est]

As far as someone purchasing games in Game Room I have bought 5 so far. H.E.R.O., River Raid, Pitfall, Megamania, and Seaquest. All great Activision games and I was happy paying 3 bucks for each of them. The new leaderboard functionality is a nice addition. Now I do agree the system does have some bugs and agree with Shipwreck's "Why does it need to exist when the Xbox Live Arcade already exists" argument, but it is a different thing and it is kind of nice to have a "house" you can decorate ala the Sims. And as far as your all's argument that if the games were bundled in a weekly pack at a discount that you would be happier I think you would just complain that the one game you wanted this week is bundled with 4-5 crappy games you don't want.