Nintendo pulling a SEGA

[Xenogears]

Edit: Aware that title and some things said may attract trolls, generate feelings of WTF, and statements of GTFO. But that has largely been dealt with, so lets move on. It's just a discussion, lets all try to keep it civil.

Edit 2: MANY MANY people have made many good points, and the original post is not indicative of all of them. Really, this thread is hypothetical and mostly discussing nintendos problems, future, what would happen if it got into financial trouble, and what could cause it. If you think thats absurd, you dont want to hear or think about it: then don't post in it or read it. If like me, you find the notion interesting, then discuss.

Of course tons of Wii's and DS's are selling, so financially and strategically there is little basis to say this; but I think Nintendo could still, within a few generations, be out of the home console business. If not out of it, change there position in it so much that it barely even feels like a home console anymore. They seem to focusing on innovation/gimmicks and constantly reinventing consoles. Heres a recent article, seeming to state that nintendo is again banking on a different approach to home consoles (http://kotaku.com/5630906/nintendos-next-console-will-leave-your-mouth-open). What that article is hinting at, I don't know, but they are starting to rev up the hype machine. If they really wanted to drop jaws, a partnership would do it. Another possibility is that they just stick to handhelds, and keep their IP games solely on them. With their assertion that apple is now the major competitor, and not the other two console makers, is this indicative of a change to focusing on handhelds?

Also, when I heard nintendo starting to hype their next system. Saying it will be jaw dropping. I had a thought about what their next thing could be. Return of the Power Glove! Not so much a glove, but some kind of finger sensors, that could register "button presses" just by flicking a finger. Combine that with a kinect like motion system, and there you have "buttons" and controller-less body tracking. Still have the joystick problem though. I don't know about the viability of this tech, and the "glove" or finger sensors would have to fit everyone...but its one of the few ideas i've had about what the next innovation/gimmick might be.

Not prediciting it will happen anytime soon, but when thinking about what Nintendo would do if faced with the inability to continue in consoles, heres what I thought. My predicition is that they team with SONY (Possibly microsoft, though this is less likely to me) and develop exclusively for them. I think that would be more likely to happen than them going 3rd party developer like SEGA.

Really, starting with N64, gamecube, and now wii; Nintendo has had the "odd" console out. Selling systems almost entirely with first party titles, and getting much less quality and mainstream 3rd party titles. Nintendo hit gold with the Wii, but it still seems like they got lucky with non-gamers who may not be there again. Even with their success, as a gamer, i view them as struggling to compete and hang on when you actually look at their tech, system features, game releases, and stated business plan.

Think they will be able to sell a system with 5 year old graphics tech again? There is a good possibility nintendo will again try to, and that it may not work out as well this time. I've owned every Nintendo system since the NES, but even with their current financial success, I view the SNES as their pinnacle.

[Rozz]

This seems to be speculated every generation with Nintendo, yet it never happens. With the immense success of the Wii, I wouldn't expect them to get out of the hardware business anytime soon. It's not like their last two consoles were flops on Sega levels, either.

[RAMSTORIA]

if buy odd system out you mean the top selling portable and home console...

go back to gamefaqs or post this on your myspace.

[TheLongshot]

I think they would have gone the way of Sega if they tried to compete at the level of Sony and Microsoft. Both went aggressively high end, taking losses on consoles to build market share. Rather than compete with that, they decided to be different with the Wii and it has worked out quite well for them. It helps that their first party titles are always top notch and exclusive to the console.

[Tony208]

people said what you're saying 5 years ago

[Chronis]

They are currently printing money. During the end of the Gamecube era, I might have agreed with you. They had nothing then. Right now, the DS and Wii are selling like hotcakes. And that profit goes directly to them. They don't care what third party publishers do because they aren't making anything worthwhile when Sega sells a shitton of Sonic games or when Ubi releases a new Rabbids game. Will they be able to capture the nongamer again? Who knows. But they already captured the core gamer. They are the ones that collectively creamed their pants at Skyward Sword, Epic Yawn (at first it was a typo, but I'm actually gonna leave it), and DKC Returns. They are the ones excited for the 3DS. They are the ones who will buy whatever crap Nintendo puts out simply because of the nostalgia. I'm not even going to say i'm better. I've been saying Fuck Nintendo for years now. What did I buy yesterday? Metroid: Other M and New Super Mario Bros. And I got it at K-Mart so I got a $20 gaming coupon, which has a good chance to eventually go towards Sin & Punishment 2. Thats just how it is. Regardless of how much better or worse the competition may be, they aren't going away.

[Xenogears]

if buy odd system out you mean the top selling portable and home console...

go back to gamefaqs or post this on your myspace.


Dumbass, fix your spelling buy = by. Guess i should have expected that from retard fanboys getting their feelings hurt. To the people saying this has been said forever, no shit. I'm a gamer, I know that, but lets try discussing why that is instead of just flaming. If you think this is a pointless discussion, then just leave your self out of it and let it die.

Even with Nintendo's success and their good E3, they have a dirty name to me now or something. I would prefer they just made games, not consoles, cause thats what they are better at. That and making money off their inferior consoles. LOL...thats gonna rile the fanboys up.

[Tony208]

^
your argument is trash so now you resort to dissing ppl for spelling errors

[62t]

Nintendo is the only one making money this generation on day 1. They are not going anywhere

[Xenogears]

^
your argument is trash so now you resort to dissing ppl for spelling errors

Haha, wow. Im not making an argument, I wanted to discuss this. If you got no points, then STFU and leave. Fucking troll

As far as my making fun of a retard that can't spell 2 sentences. Wannabe flamers that fail in doing so, will be mocked accordingly

[celegus]

Wait, what? They're going out of business by making money?

Also, how do you know their next console is going to have inferior graphics like the Wii? I don't remember an announcement on that.

[Xenogears]

I'm not arguing, but im impartially saying that ever since the SNES, I and many other people have felt Nintendo consoles have under delivered. And no matter how much the fanboy trolls try to flame anyone that feels this way, or talk about all the MONEIZ they making, it makes more sense to me that Nintendo just make games. Nintendo games are good, but their consoles are like the Jershey shore / Paris Hiltons of the video game world: So many people saying, why the F are they making so much money and so popular?

Anyway, i guess im not saying they will get out of the console business. I'm saying that even with their success, I just get the feeling they could and should leave it. I now view Microsoft and Sony as console makers and supporters, I view Nintendo as a shovelware/money machine that only exists because of the Grade A Nintendo games that can only be played on their system. I don't know if that can last, and it is faltering. Their profits are down something like 60% from last year.

Heres another interesting fact about last quarters net income:
Microsoft - $3 billion US
Nintendo - $450 million US

I'm not arguing that Nintendo's console has been less successful, just trying to shut up flamer fanboys and all their MONEY MONEY MONEY talk.

[TheLongshot]

I'm not arguing, but im impartially saying that ever since the SNES I, and many other people have felt Nintendo consoles have under delivered. And no matter how much the fanboy trolls try to flame anyone that feels this way, or talk about all the MONEIZ they making, it makes more sense to me that Nintendo just make games. Nintendo games are good, but their consoles are like the Jershey shore / Paris Hiltons of the video game world: So many people saying, why the F are they making so much money and so popular? Their profits are down something like 50% from last year though

Yet, they probably had the best E3 presentation of the bunch. Plenty of new games coming to the Wii to get the Nintendo faithful excited. Plus, the 3DS to help keep their lead on the portable market.

Again, they are able to make money on their consoles, unlike Sony and Microsoft. They also tap into a market that neither console can touch yet: the casual gamer. While the Wii isn't the greatest console ever, it is successful.

[doodofdoods]

Not going to happen. They've been way too successful this gen, that success is likely to carry forward to their next console, when they get to put HD graphics and a competent online infrastructure to use in their first party games. That'll sell systems like crazy. Plus, 3rd party developers will not overlook Nintendo's home console this time around, just like they're not overlooking the 3DS. Everybody's going to be developing something for them, so they'll actually have the 3rd party support they've lacked these past couple of generations.

[Xenogears]

Not going to happen. They've been way too successful this gen, that success is likely to carry forward to their next console, when they get to put HD graphics and a competent online infrastructure to use in their first party games. That'll sell systems like crazy. Plus, 3rd party developers will not overlook Nintendo's home console this time around, just like they're not overlooking the 3DS. Everybody's going to be developing something for them, so they'll actually have the 3rd party support they've lacked these past couple of generations.

Good point. IF nintendo atleast matches what sony and microsoft have done for 5 years now, HD graphics and online support, they probably will be successful. I agree with that. But whenever they release their next console, I predict it is going to be PS3/360 quality graphics. Last Gen graphics is what worked for the Wii, and I think their next console is going to follow the same plan. If that is the case, i'm not so sure its going to work again. From a logical perspective, yeah, it probably will, from a gamer (?) persepective, it shouldnt and wont

[Dr Mario Kart]

Heres another interesting fact about last quarters net income:
Microsoft - $3 billion US
Nintendo - $450 million US

I'm not arguing that Nintendo's console has been less successful, just trying to shut up flamer fanboys and all their MONEY MONEY MONEY talk.

uhh...keep trying.

Sony Nintendo Microsoft Total
Y/E 1998 $902,811,090 $1,023,333,867 $1,926,144,957
Y/E 1999 $1,102,563,557 $1,301,350,000 $2,403,913,557
Y/E 2000 $722,738,949 $1,368,207,547 $2,090,946,497
Y/E 2001 -$449,776,290 $677,576,000 $227,799,710
Y/E 2002 $629,101,056 $895,872,180 -$1,135,000,000 $389,973,237
Y/E 2003 $935,569,253 $834,333,333 -$1,191,000,000 $578,902,586
Y/E 2004 $627,195,212 $993,161,303 -$1,337,000,000 $283,356,515
Y/E 2005 $419,888,799 $1,056,056,202 -$539,000,000 $936,945,001
Y/E 2006 $69,129,058 $774,478,055 -$1,339,000,000 -$495,392,887
Y/E 2007 -$1,970,923,859 $1,914,666,388 -$1,969,000,000 -$2,025,257,471
Y/E 2008 -$1,079,994,103 $4,322,637,887 $426,000,000 $3,668,643,783
Y/E 2009 -$664,313,787 $5,691,428,301 $169,000,000 $5,196,114,515

Y/E 10Q1 -$413,541,667 $420,843,750 $312,000,000 $319,302,083
Y/E 10Q2 -$653,333,333 $710,655,556 $375,000,000 $432,011,111
Y/E 10Q3 $210,629,750 $2,087,904,452 N/A N/A

Total
$387,078,407 $24,072,504,822 -$6,157,000,000 $16,004,049,028


360 is only part of the Entertainment & Devices Division of Microsoft. Note that this is slightly out of date. I'd be up for Nintendo leaving the home console race, but only because HD is proven to not be a viable business model for all involved parties.

[Xenogears]

uhh...

Sony Nintendo Microsoft Total
Y/E 1998 $902,811,090 $1,023,333,867 $1,926,144,957
Y/E 1999 $1,102,563,557 $1,301,350,000 $2,403,913,557
Y/E 2000 $722,738,949 $1,368,207,547 $2,090,946,497
Y/E 2001 -$449,776,290 $677,576,000 $227,799,710
Y/E 2002 $629,101,056 $895,872,180 -$1,135,000,000 $389,973,237
Y/E 2003 $935,569,253 $834,333,333 -$1,191,000,000 $578,902,586
Y/E 2004 $627,195,212 $993,161,303 -$1,337,000,000 $283,356,515
Y/E 2005 $419,888,799 $1,056,056,202 -$539,000,000 $936,945,001
Y/E 2006 $69,129,058 $774,478,055 -$1,339,000,000 -$495,392,887
Y/E 2007 -$1,970,923,859 $1,914,666,388 -$1,969,000,000 -$2,025,257,471
Y/E 2008 -$1,079,994,103 $4,322,637,887 $426,000,000 $3,668,643,783
Y/E 2009 -$664,313,787 $5,691,428,301 $169,000,000 $5,196,114,515

Y/E 10Q1 -$413,541,667 $420,843,750 $312,000,000 $319,302,083
Y/E 10Q2 -$653,333,333 $710,655,556 $375,000,000 $432,011,111
Y/E 10Q3 $210,629,750 $2,087,904,452 N/A N/A

Total
$387,078,407 $24,072,504,822 -$6,157,000,000 $16,004,049,028


360 is only part of the Entertainment & Devices Division of Microsoft. Note that this is slightly out of date. I'd be up for Nintendo leaving the home console race, but only because HD is proven to not be a viable business model for all involved parties.

My numbers are for microsoft as a whole, not just their Xbox division.

[Dr Mario Kart]

My numbers are for microsoft as a whole, not just their Xbox division.
Which makes them how useful?

[crr_1119]

Fun and enjoyable gameplay is a lot more important than graphics, no matter how pretty they may get. And Nintendo, while some may say they are inferior in the graphics department this gen, have shown time and time again that they are still superior in the gameplay department.

And while many disagree, I have to say that a few Nintendo titles are right on up there graphics wise with Microsoft and Sony titles. Super Mario Galaxy and it's sequel look glorious, and Other M looks great as well. A lot of people just crap on Nintendo and the Wii right now because of all the shovelware crap that developers are shoving down our throats for the Wii-Remote.

But then again, Microsoft and Sony are now trying to capitalize on that market with the Kinect and Move. A bit late now though. I don't think Nintendo will be going anywhere any time soon. I just hope though that we start getting more first-party titles out of them.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I'm skeptical about Nintendo in the home console market going forward as well. They're up against two competitors who are mysteriously satisfied with losing money indefinitely. Thats a tough fight in the long run. Meanwhile, developers continue to CRATER under the crushing unviability of HD.

Theres virtually no reason to support a WiiHD when you have 3DS.

[Xenogears]

The reason I posted this is that I had a thought last night: Nintendo and Sony combined would crush Microsoft. For those of you that know Sony's history, they started out in a partnership with Nintendo, im not going into that, but while its difficult, its entirely possible they go back into one. That thought got me thinking, why is Nintendo even making consoles? Other than they are currently profitable. If Nintendo ever has a console like the 3DS or their next home console flop, I think they are done right then and there. Sony and Microsoft, still in it. 5, 10, 15 years; Nintendo may have a big flop. Then what? I think they partner with SONY before they become a 3rd party developer.

[Morrigan Lover]

Your post advocates a

() Technological
() Business
() Market share

Reason Why

() Apple
() Nintendo

Is about to go out of business. I will now prove you are full of sh*t by pointing out said companies

() Gross profits
() Market capitalization
() Stock price

[Survivalism]

As far as my making fun of a retard that can't spell 2 sentences. Wannabe flamers that fail in doing so, will be mocked accordingly

Those aren't complete sentences, and you've got a comma splice in one fragment. Also, numbers one through ten are to be spelled out.

[Sporadic]

I don't think they are going to pull a Sega but I do think they are going down a bad path with their console plan. They have a fantastic strategy right now of having cheap hardware that has a novelty factor to pull in non-gamers. My parents and all of their friends love the Wii/comment on how they'll have to get one. The big problem is that they only play it in groups and never bought another game for it. They treat it like a karaoke machine. That's a bad thing since the shine of "wow, I'm bowling by moving like I would if I was bowling" will wear off sooner than later (especially with Kinect and Sony Move coming out) and how long will third party companies put money into making a special copy of a game if it isn't selling? The Wii seems like a great thing for the short term but a horrible thing for the long term. How long until the fun of motion control wears off and you are stuck with a Gamecube type situation (underpowered hardware with only Nintendo games keeping it afloat)?

I don't think they ever have to worry about losing the handheld market or going out of business.

[Kendro]

Really, starting with N64, gamecube, and now wii; Nintendo has had the "odd" console out.

Odd as in the only consoles that made a profit and doesn't sell at a loss?

Your post might have made sense in 2005 after Nintendo came in 2nd two years in a row with N64 and GC.

Dr Mario Kart posted hard cold facts. MS and Sony in their best years have barely broke 1 billion dollars profit (and have posted multiple negative billion dollar losses) yet Nintendo in 2008 posted 4 billion and in 2009 posted 5 billion. Look at the totals for each company.

Where are you getting your thoughts from???

[KingBroly]

What? I'm sorry, but your Nintendo is going 3rd party argument will not work here.

[shinzero01]

I would refrain from including Microsoft as a whole in your statements and stick to their gaming division. Part of the reason the Xbox survived to become the 360 is that Microsoft could afford to take big losses since they were swimming in money from all their other divisions.

As I see it, Nintendo innovates. Sony has the best graphics (largely due to Blu-ray disc's size capacity), and Microsoft has the best networking/multiplayer.

We need Nintendo to keep innovating though. So gaming doesn't stay stale like it has been recently. I mean, how many more fps and 3ps games does there need to be before they all merge into one big high def pile of bullets?

[Gden]

It makes my brain hurt to think that in the past 12 years the video game industry has gotten over $16 billion dollars from us. Also Sega had two systems bomb (don't get me wrong I LOVED the Dreamcast, but it still bombed, three if you count the CD since it basically made the genesis a whole new system), so Nintendo needs to make at least 2 systems that bomb before they go that way. Yes, the N64 didn't sell that well, nor did the Gamecube, but they sold respecably well enough, and Pokemon followed by the DS kept nintendo alive during those years. I take it back, Nintendo had decent sales during the end of the N64 days. Do those figures include console AND software sales? If so, that might partially explain it. Pick all you want about my grammar, its 4 am, I'm tired.

[foltzie]

Sigh.... Nintendo has been around 100 years. If anything will impact them, it will be Apple, not Microsoft.

In fact, there should be concern, that recent personal moves at Microsoft could impact future iterations of the Xbox.

After all, the first moves after the recent shakeups was to up Xbox Live by $10 a year, and to hold back a controller that should have been included in the Xbox 360 Slim package.

The Xbox, supposedly as financials have occasionally been tough to tess out , has only been successful in one or two quarters out of the past several years. At some point someone could just cut the division as a cost cutting move.

[nbballard]

Nintendo isn't going anywhere any time soon. Their handheld marketshare and Pokemon will always keep them afloat. Let's forget about the handheld market for a minute though. They are the "Kleenex" and "Coke" of their industry, and that will sustain them for a long time.

[advanced]

Which makes them how useful?

They're as useful as raindrops and candy when trying to pay for good times man. Can't you see that? :lol:

[Lone_Prodigy]

Nintendo sure is the odd console out. That's why Sony and MS are hyping their superior third-party lineups and HD capabilities, not the motion control "gimmick/fad" the Wii is known for.

Oh wait.

[Xenogears]

LOL, K. People that like nintendo, and don't agree with what I have said in the OP. Fine, thanks for posting your thoughts too. People saying im "full of shit", not welcome on CAG: take your trolling over to hatehatehate.com, irrelevant fanboy fuck ers.

Morriganlover, using nintendo's stock price as "proof" for your nice statement that im full of shit is funny when it has lost 60% from its 3 year high. Just go back to fapping over darkstalkers pics. I wanted to talk about Nintendo's future in the home console market, and am personally not so sure about it. Deal with it.

Grammar nazi Survivalism, I got on the troll for misspelling because he was nothing but a troll. Gden, I dont know if survivalism will or not, but im not gonna pick at your grammar. Your post was actually relevant and not simply hate.

Kendro, im posting "cold hard" facts too. They were older numbers, just like Dr. mario karts, but look up Microsoft and nintendo Q1 2009 net income if you dont believe me. I just posted those numbers to show that even with nintendos success, microsoft still generated something like 7x net income. And saying that nintendo has had the "odd" console out for the past three generations is fine. So stop being a smart ass, you know exactly what i mean by that. Its been the "different" console for 3 generations, either with carts, a purple cube that plays tiny discs, or motion control. And less 3rd party support. I wouldnt call wii shovelware "support" from the 3rd parties

Basically, i'm just musing about nintendo's future. I had some thoughts about whether the Wii was even necessary. If Sony can add the move to PS3, why couldn't nintendo just have added motion controll to the gamecube? The graphics tech is almost identical (i know fanboys wont like that statement either...but nothing on the Wii looks significantly better than Twilight Princess). Now that sony has the move, other than getting nintendo games and being cheaper, what advantages does the wii have? Sony has many. I just got to thinking. If you got a problem with that, Fuck you

[TheLongshot]

Basically, i'm just musing about nintendo's future. I had some thoughts about whether the Wii was even necessary. If Sony can add the move to PS3, why couldn't nintendo just have added motion controll to the gamecube? The graphics tech is almost identical (i know fanboys wont like that statement either...but nothing on the Wii looks significantly better than Twilight Princess). Now that sony has the move, other than getting nintendo games and being cheaper, what advantages does the wii have? Sony has many. I just got to thinking. If you got a problem with that, Fuck you

Play Metroid: Other M and tell me that the Wii is a warmed-over GameCube.

Price is still a huge advantage for the Wii. A Move bundle still costs twice as much as a Wii. It will also be a question if there will be enough quality games to make Move a viable peripheral. History isn't on the side of games that require post-release peripherals.

[yayece]

I would refrain from including Microsoft as a whole in your statements and stick to their gaming division. Part of the reason the Xbox survived to become the 360 is that Microsoft could afford to take big losses since they were swimming in money from all their other divisions.
I think that's a good reason you should include Microsoft as a whole. If they so wanted, they could weather a few non-successes and just out last Nintendo. I'm not sure how many different consoles the market can support. Last generation, the Dreamcast just couldn't survive as #4. The generation before that saw a lot of entries too...

Can't we look at Sony as an example? One of the big reasons why blu-ray won out over hd-dvd was the PS3. Perhaps the gaming division was hemorrhaging cash, but it was allowed them to lock up that format war. Strategically, the right move.

Anyway, I don't know. Long term, I think the tc has some valid concerns. I loved Sega for their Saturn and Dreamcast, and I'd hate to see Nintendo go that way.

[maximumzero]

Of course tons of Wiis and DS's are selling, so I have absolutly no basis for saying this; but I think Nintendo could be out of the console business within 5 to 10 years. My predicition is that they either team with SONY and develop exclusively for them, or become a 3rd party developer like SEGA. They will probably stay big with their handheld systems though.

Really, starting with N64, gamecube, and now wii; Nintendo has had the "odd" console out. Selling systems almost entirely with first party titles, and getting much less quality and mainstream 3rd party titles. Nintendo hit gold with the Wii, but it still seems like they got lucky with non-gamers who may not be there again. Even with their success, as a gamer i view them as struggling to compete and hang on when you actually look at their tech, system features, game releases, and future plans.

Think they will be able to sell a system with 5 year old graphics tech again? I'm thinking no. I've owned every Nintendo system since the NES, but they have been going downhill ever since the Super Nintendo. Discuss.

Discuss? Okay.

For over 20 years Nintendo has consistently made the best games on the marketplace and is the leader in innovation.

They ain't going anywhere.

Edit: These arguments always seem to reek of jealousy to me. People just want to play Nintendo's games without buying their hardware so they pray to their god every night that Nintendo goes third party so they can get their Zelda/Mario/Metroid/Etc fix without being called lame by their Dudebro friends for owning a Wii.

[62t]

LOL, K. People that like nintendo, and don't agree with what I have said in the OP. Fine, thanks for posting your thoughts too. People saying im "full of shit", not welcome on CAG: take your trolling over to hatehatehate.com, irrelevant fanboy fuck ers.

Morriganlover, using nintendo's stock price as "proof" for your nice statement that im full of shit is funny when it has lost 60% from its 3 year high. Just go back to fapping over darkstalkers pics. I wanted to talk about Nintendo's future in the home console market, and am personally not so sure about it. Deal with it.

Grammar nazi Survivalism, I got on the troll for misspelling because he was nothing but a troll. Gden, I dont know if survivalism will or not, but im not gonna pick at your grammar. Your post was actually relevant and not simply hate.

Kendro, im posting "cold hard" facts too. They were older numbers, just like Dr. mario karts, but look up Microsoft and nintendo Q1 2009 net income if you dont believe me. I just posted those numbers to show that even with nintendos success, microsoft still generated something like 7x net income. And saying that nintendo has had the "odd" console out for the past three generations is fine. So stop being a smart ass, you know exactly what i mean by that. Its been the "different" console for 3 generations, either with carts, a purple cube that plays tiny discs, or motion control. And less 3rd party support. I wouldnt call wii shovelware "support" from the 3rd parties

Basically, i'm just musing about nintendo's future. I had some thoughts about whether the Wii was even necessary. If Sony can add the move to PS3, why couldn't nintendo just have added motion controll to the gamecube? The graphics tech is almost identical (i know fanboys wont like that statement either...but nothing on the Wii looks significantly better than Twilight Princess). Now that sony has the move, other than getting nintendo games and being cheaper, what advantages does the wii have? Sony has many. I just got to thinking. If you got a problem with that, Fuck you

Using your argument won't it make more sense for MS to get out of the gaming market? Since they would be making more money without the gaming division.

[SteveGo]

I don't think Nintendo will go the way of Sega, they are just too innovative when it comes to gaming.
They were the first to have a 1st party wireless controller with the Wavebird.

They were the first real "mutilplayer" console with the N64 and its 4 controller ports.

They weret he first to consider a CD format (your afformentioned partnership with sony).

They were the first to use motion controls with the Wii. And they're going to have the first 3D console, that doesn't require glasses.

They are always the originator of gaming concepts that end up being copied or imatated by others. IMO, there is always a market for originality and innovation, something Sega never did grasp, they were always playing catchup with Nintendo.

[CoffeeEdge]

OP is a troll, you fools. Should be obvious, but maybe it just takes one to know one.

[rhymenoceros]

It doesn't seem like you want to discuss anything. You seem to have made up your mind that Nintendo should pull a SEGA, as you call it. And when someone brings up a point, you agree that they brought up a point and then reiterate your stance and how the haters should keep hating. Your advice to "Deal with it." seems to show you just don't want to argue intelligently with someone and are hoping someone who agrees with you will come in and fellate you because of your "wisdom."

Nintendo is going to be around for a while. And they're very protective of their IPs and are too smart to let anything or just anyone handle them. Unless something horrible happens to drive them into the ground, they aren't going to pull a Sega. And as bleak or grim as their future might appear to you, I think they just might know what they're doing a little better than you.

[rapsodist]

This thread is turning into somebody's fanboy dream of Nintendo and Sony rekindling the flames and teaming up in a Fall of Xbox crossover epic.

[RAMSTORIA]

Dumbass, fix your spelling buy = by. Guess i should have expected that from retard fanboys getting their feelings hurt. To the people saying this has been said forever, no shit. I'm a gamer, I know that, but lets try discussing why that is instead of just flaming. If you think this is a pointless discussion, then just leave your self out of it and let it die.

Even with Nintendo's success and their good E3, they have a dirty name to me now or something. I would prefer they just made games, not consoles, cause thats what they are better at. That and making money off their inferior consoles. LOL...thats gonna rile the fanboys up.

sorry i dont prof rad my internt posts. i guess ill just be a dumbass and fanboy for the rest of my life.

[Xenogears]

I don't think Nintendo will go the way of Sega, they are just too innovative when it comes to gaming.
They were the first to have a 1st party wireless controller with the Wavebird.

They were the first real "mutilplayer" console with the N64 and its 4 controller ports.

They weret he first to consider a CD format (your afformentioned partnership with sony).

They were the first to use motion controls with the Wii. And they're going to have the first 3D console, that doesn't require glasses.

They are always the originator of gaming concepts that end up being copied or imatated by others. IMO, there is always a market for originality and innovation, something Sega never did grasp, they were always playing catchup with Nintendo.

The motion controller was innovative and a gamble that paid off. 3D in a handheld is an innovative gamble that has yet to be proven. Their last 3D handheld didnt go so well :) The 3DS will probably sell if its not overpriced, works well, and doesn't give nasty hangover like side-effects.

If nintendo comes up with a new innovation for their next home console, I think sony and microsoft are going to be quicker to say screw it, and throw it on their console or 1up it as quick as possible. If nintendo is using last-gen graphics again, and sticking to their "protect the children" no online policy; that would be a tough spot. Especially if the mainstream doesnt bite the hype like last time and get an early lead.

I have owned every sony and nintendo console. And just find it interesting that for 3 generations i have bought 4-6 times more games for the sony. I used to prefer nintendo too, but own just 6 Wii games (Mario, Zelda, metroid; thats it) compared to 20 plus PS3 games. Which are all just as good. And I bought the Wii almost 2 years earlier than the PS3. To people saying that i just am jealous of nintendo and want them to fail so i can play their 3rd party games. If you had an HD tv and a PS3 or xbox, i think you'd understand better. Wii games look like crap compared to HD consoles, and the divide is constantly growing. I just got other M, and am not looking foward to playing it after just finishing GOW3. Thats going to be painfull on the eyes. To put in a way nintendo only purists might understand, its like playing N64 when you could be playing gamecube. Sure there are good games that look ok, but once you go foward a gen, its hard to look back.

Again, if your just a one sentence troll ignoring what im saying. Fuck off. What i just said is true, refute something if its not. Im fine with that.

[Xenogears]

It doesn't seem like you want to discuss anything. You seem to have made up your mind that Nintendo should pull a SEGA, as you call it. And when someone brings up a point, you agree that they brought up a point and then reiterate your stance and how the haters should keep hating. Your advice to "Deal with it." seems to show you just don't want to argue intelligently with someone and are hoping someone who agrees with you will come in and fellate you because of your "wisdom."

Nintendo is going to be around for a while. And they're very protective of their IPs and are too smart to let anything or just anyone handle them. Unless something horrible happens to drive them into the ground, they aren't going to pull a Sega. And as bleak or grim as their future might appear to you, I think they just might know what they're doing a little better than you.

I know its pretty easy and fun to just ignore the problems with nintendo that im pointing out, and make jokes about the "troll" op. Its pretty easy to jump on the bandwagon of the console leader when someone brings up any of their faults. Saying "deal with it", im trying to pre-empt all the jackass with blinders on that are spewwing nothing but hate. I'm agreeing with people that make points, because im hoping maybe some of the fanboy haters can do the same for me. Though, joke away jackass, you got plenty of buddies here.

And coffee, your saying your a troll then? Takes one to know one?

[RAMSTORIA]

I know its pretty easy and fun to just ignore the problems with nintendo that im pointing out, and make jokes about the "troll" op. Its pretty easy to jump on the bandwagon of the console leader when someone brings up any of their faults. Saying "deal with it", im trying to pre-empt all the jackass with blinders on that are spewwing nothing but hate. I'm agreeing with people that make points, because im hoping maybe some of the fanboy haters can do the same for me. Though, joke away jackass, you got plenty of buddies here.

And coffee, your saying your a troll then? Takes one to know one?

it's, I'm, It's, I'm, I'm, you're

[Lone_Prodigy]

I know its pretty easy and fun to just ignore the problems with nintendo that im pointing out, and make jokes about the "troll" op. Its pretty easy to jump on the bandwagon of the console leader when someone brings up any of their faults. Saying "deal with it", im trying to pre-empt all the jackass with blinders on that are spewwing nothing but hate. I'm agreeing with people that make points, because im hoping maybe some of the fanboy haters can do the same for me. Though, joke away jackass, you got plenty of buddies here.

So what points are you trying to make here? Wii graphics suck? Nintendo has no 3rd-party support on the Wii? The PS3 can do what the Wii can do, but with better graphics? These are all "points" that get brought up in every console debate. You are bringing nothing new to the table.

But in an attempt to get this back on track, let's compare Nintendo to Sega.

Worldwide sales:
Nintendo Entertainment System – 61.91 million
Sega Master System – 13 million

Game Boy and Game Boy Color combined – 118.69 million, as of 31 December 2009 (Japan: 32.47 million, the Americas: 44.06 million, other: 42.16 million)
Sega Game Gear – 11 million

Super Nintendo Entertainment System/Super Famicom – 49.10 million (Japan: 17.17 million, the Americas: 23.35 million, Other: 8.58 million)
Mega Drive/Genesis – 29–30 million
TurboGrafx-16 – 10 million (US: 2.5 million)

PlayStation – 102.49 million shipped, as of 31 March 2005 (Japan: 21.59, US: 40.78, Europe: 40.12)
including PS one – 28.15 million shipped, as of 31 March 2005
Nintendo 64 – 32.93 million (Japan: 5.54 million, the Americas: 20.63 million, other: 6.75 million as of 31 March 2005)
Sega Saturn – 9.5 million

Nintendo has consistently beaten Sega in every console generation (I don't have Dreamcast numbers). Even if Nintendo was to go Sega's route, the following would have to happen:

-the 3DS underperforms dramatically and loses the handheld war to the PSP/iTouch. Also, everyone stops buying the DS.
-the Wii2 also fails to make an impact. Perhaps the online doesn't get any better, the casuals start losing interest, the graphics capabilities aren't enough, the pricepoint too high, etc.

Basically Nintendo would need to suffer a huge drop in sales for a couple generations before they'd call it quits from the hardware business. It's difficult to compare the two anyway: even if the Dreamcast had sold like gangbusters Sega was still in financial trouble from its previous disappointments.

[Salamando3000]

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the Wii is doing well enough for Nintendo. They're making money hand-over-fist, and there's no worry about them getting out of consoles right now. However, allow me to present another question for a better discussion...

If Nintendo releases their next home console without any kind of significant innovations, will it be successful?

[rlse9]

I think this thread should say "I really wish Nintendo would become third party because I don't like anything on their consoles except first party games and would rather have them in HD on my PS3." Because there's no reason at all for Nintendo to even remotely consider "pulling a Sega."

They've made a ton of money this generation, from both software and hardware. They've gotten a lot of people who weren't previously into gaming to buy their system. They've been able to create software that has had longer staying power than possibly any gaming software ever. They'd be insane to even remotely be thinking of going software only. At this point it would be insane. Why not give up on making Mario games, too?

And I see no reason that Microsoft's overall profits are in any way relevant. Nintendo's not going anywhere because one of their competitors makes a ton of money from a separate division. Sega didn't care about Nintendo's or Sony's profits. They cared about the fact that they weren't making money. Nintendo is, so they're not going to go anywhere, they'd have to have multiple consoles in a row flop before that would be an option.

[Xenogears]

Nintendo + Sony (or microsoft) = automatic win
Sony + Microsoft = Nintendo still a factor
Nintendo on its own = Up in the air

Regardless of whether any of these are possible, thats closer to the thought I had. Nintendo has to be aware of this. Yes they are a for profit company, and they will follow profits. So, they will continue doing what is most profitable.

-Is it more profitable to utterly dominate the console market? Yes (though this is debatable, with having competitors to develop tech and generate industry hype)
-Is it more profitable to dominate the console market alone or with a partner? alone
-Is it easier, and more assured that nintendo would dominate the console market alone or with a partner? With a partner
-Are mergers and partnerships possible in the business world? Yes

Given nintendo's recent success, this is not a good time to bring these points up. I fully realize that it doesnt currently make sense for nintendo to abandon home consoles, i never said it did. But if Sony or microsoft failed, I think they would simply leave the game industry. If Nintendo failed, it would go the way of SEGA. Thats not necessarily "failure", but become 3rd party. Before that happened, I'd predict nintendo partnering in a hugely lucrative deal with its biggest competitor. They would probably still want to keep their IP on one console which they could probably negotiate a big controlling interest in. Thats all I really wanted to say, but started pointing out some of the wiis faults in reaction to fanboy ravings.

Im not going to argue this, but personally I dont see nintendo "winning" the long term (10, 20 years) console war alone. With a partner, utter domination. Sony and microsoft partnering, not so much. Just a thought, not too provocative or trolly is it?

Whether you like it or not, its been 3 generations of many gamers being able to easily find faults in and put down nintendo's home consoles. Read old reviews, watch X-play's review of metroid other M if you think this is a lie. Put down and find faults in their first party games? Very difficult. So from that, i view their strength to be their games, not their consoles. And from that, its not unreasonable to assume that if nintendo ever starts losing significant money on consoles, they will switch to games, which then gets into my previous point about partnering. Microsoft and Sony, just plain gone. That threat of completely being out of the race, and their ability to take more of a hit with their diverse business interests and higher company-wide profit, means they are going to stick difficulties out longer than nintendo. They have already had some though, so who knows how much longer they are willing to go.

[Rasen]

Whether you like it or not, its been 3 generations of many gamers being able to easily find faults in and put down nintendo's home consoles. Read old reviews, watch X-play's review of metroid other M if you think this is a lie.

The reviews of one person (x-play) are hardly indicative of the general view. Everyone has their own opinion, and they're entitled to it, but x-play seems to enjoy trolling if how they handled the reaction to their Crisis Core review is any indication.

And what does a review about a GAME have to do with their system? X-play was complaining about the game being sexist. That wouldn't change if it had HD graphics up the yin-yang. As for their complaint about controls, most other reviews specifically praised them so....not that much of an issue.

Finally, if Nintendo continued to be technologically behind, MAYBE that would be trouble for them. But the 3DS is an impressive piece of technology, which should tell you that Nintendo isn't always going to go the low-end-but-innovative-route. Apparently high-end-and-innovative is in their repertoire. (Also, for all their faults, the n64 and gamecube were also very powerful pieces of equipment. Both were more powerful processor-wise than their Sony competition at least.)

[mission42]

(Also, for all their faults, the n64 and gamecube were also very powerful pieces of equipment. Both were more powerful processor-wise than their Sony competition at least.)


Also, keep in mind that the Wii wasn't created with low-end tech just because Nintendo didn't have it. They did it because they realized selling a $400-$600 console at launch wasn't the best way to get a huge install base, where as selling it for $249 at launch and $199 later would give much better results.

I'd say Nintendo has a bright future in consoles. If anything they could use a couple new first party franchises to brighten things up. The Mario and Zelda games will always sell but it's nice to see a new franchise succeed and I haven't seen much new from Nintendo this generation from a first party standpoint for a "core" audience. If it was there and good I just missed it then. Other than sports/play games from them I don't recall many new franchises.

SMG
SMG2
SSBB
NSMB
Mario Kart
Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3
Metroid Other M
Animal Crossing

I'm sure I'm missing something first party that was new but it sure didn't get my attention. I think they better stick to consoles for awhile. Plus who really wants to see Mario on an Xbox or Playstation...that's just too crazy to even think about.

[Xenogears]

Nintendo + Sony (or microsoft) = automatic win
Sony + Microsoft = Nintendo still a factor
Nintendo on its own = Up in the air

Regardless of whether any of these are possible, thats closer to the thought I had. Nintendo has to be aware of this. Yes they are a for profit company, and they will follow profits. So, they will continue doing what is most profitable.

-Is it more profitable to utterly dominate the console market? Yes (though this is debatable, with having competitors to develop tech and generate industry hype)
-Is it more profitable to dominate the console market alone or with a partner? alone
-Is it easier, and more assured that nintendo would dominate the console market alone or with a partner? With a partner
-Are mergers and partnerships possible in the business world? Yes

Given nintendo's recent success, this is not a good time to bring these points up. I fully realize that it doesnt currently make sense for nintendo to abandon home consoles, i never said it did. But if Sony or microsoft failed, I think they would simply leave the game industry. If Nintendo failed, it would go the way of SEGA. Thats not necessarily "failure", but become 3rd party. Before that happened, I'd predict nintendo partnering in a hugely lucrative deal with its biggest competitor. They would probably still want to keep their IP on one console which they could probably negotiate a big controlling interest in. Thats all I really wanted to say, but started pointing out some of the wiis faults in reaction to fanboy ravings.


How about discussing this? Again, no shit 1 review or 1 opinion doesnt mean a system is bad. Many, that directly refer to the system as inferior, unsupported or outdated tech, that could be a problem. And it is. Actually, given that nintendo is at the top of its game, they would have a ton of bargaining power if a partnership were discussed right now compared to being at a low point. Its not likely, but I think its a slight possibility even currently.

And yet again with the moot points that have virtually nothing to do with anything I just said, yes nintendo may up the graphics ante on their next home console. Compete with or even pass Sony and Microsofts next system in terms of power, but I highly doubt it. Do i think your an idiot, full of shit, not welcome, and need to be flamed for bringing up that possibility? No

[Rasen]

How about discussing this? Again, no shit 1 review or 1 opinion doesnt mean a system is bad. Many, that directly refer to the system as inferior, unsupported or outdated tech, that could be a problem.

Complaints about inferior only applied to the Wii though. Like I mentioned before the faults of N64 and GC had nothing to do with the system being outdated or inferior, but more to do with Nintendo's policies and smaller storage media (carts and tiny discs).

And it is. Actually, given that nintendo is at the top of its game, they would have a ton of bargaining power if a partnership were discussed right now compared to being at a low point. Its not likely, but I think its a slight possibility even currently.

It's slight in the same way that the sun has a slight possibility of not rising tomorrow. It's the sort of thing that happens when a company continues to LOSE money instead of making it hand over fist like Nintendo does. Unlike the good folks at Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo sells their system at a profit while the other two have to depend on their cut of game sales. What possible reason would Nintendo have to fork over a portion of their profits to another company when they have a perfectly viable money-printing system in place?

And yet again with the moot points that have virtually nothing to do with anything I just said, yes nintendo may up the graphics ante on their next home console. Compete with or even pass Sony and Microsofts next system in terms of power, but I highly doubt it.

Based on what past actions? One system?

[spmahn]

Although the thought of Nintendo abandoning the console business is absurd (although we might have saif the same thing about Sega 10 years ago), they have made a number of mistakes over the past decade which has done severe damage to their brand.

Their first mistake was alienating Third Parties during the N64 Era. Within a few years of its release, the only third parties left developing unique N64 games in this country were Midway and Acclaim, and you know what those games were like. Yes, there was the occaisional sports title and a handful of unique games like Beetle Adventure Racing, but for the most part all that was left was rehashed Playstation ports. Unfortunately for Nintendo, the ill will they brought upon third parties carried over to the Gamecube era, which meant that Gamecube was almost completely bereft of any third party content at all. Capcom supported them, but barely, Sega gave them lots of support, but otherwise it was all Midway and Acclaim. When the Wii first came out, support for it seemed promising, but that quickly dwindled as most third parties felt handcuffed by the motion gimmick, and wanted to develop games that could be ported universally, and not have to have some motion crap for the Wii shoehorned in.

The second big mistake Nintendo has made is watering down their own franchises. Regardless of how you may feel about the games, you can't argue that the direction Nintendo has taken many of it's franchises, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, etc. has been at best, polarizing. Even worse, Nintendo actually managed to do something that had previously thought to be impossible, and that's release franchise titles that were just flat out no good. It didn't happen often, but for a company like Nintendo who is constantly hitting it out of the park to suddenly start striking out is a bit disheartening.

Nintendo's final mistake, and this one is a bigee, is watering down their brand name by permitting all the shovelware that comes out for it's system. Yes, even as kids we had our share of Yo! Noid and Barbie Supermodel games, but they were the exception, not the rule. These days the Nintendo seal of approval means nothing, as every week doens upon dozens of absolute garbage games that have no business being sold to consumers get released for the Wii.

Although it is sad to say, neither Nintendo nor the Wii is in competition with Sony or Microsoft any longer. They exist in their own market, and while there is some occaisional crossover by consumers, for the most part the people playing PS3 and X-Box aren't playing Wii, and vice-versa.

[jkam]

The OP is delusional...Nintendo makes money every generation even on the Gamecube. They aren't going anywhere.

[EarthBound Sucks]

Dumbass, fix your spelling buy = by. Guess i should have expected that from retard fanboys getting their feelings hurt.
buy = by. Guess i should have expected that from retard fanboys
Guess i should have expected
Guess i should have
Guess i should
i
Huh.

[Sporadic]

Nintendo sure is the odd console out. That's why Sony and MS are hyping their superior third-party lineups and HD capabilities, not the motion control "gimmick/fad" the Wii is known for.

Oh wait.

Remember how music games like Rock Band/Guitar Hero were suppose to be the next big thing and sell like hotcakes for years? Yeah. The novelty of things (from graphics to motion control) wear off. That's just the way it is.

Where will the Wii and it's successor be when the novelty of motion control wears off? Right back to where they were with the Gamecube.

[Gden]

OP is a troll, you fools. Should be obvious, but maybe it just takes one to know one.

I was thinking the same thing or an alt of one of the people who run this messing with us. Thought about that last night when I posted.

[Rasen]

Remember how music games like Rock Band/Guitar Hero were suppose to be the next big thing and sell like hotcakes for years? Yeah. The novelty of things (from graphics to motion control) wear off. That's just the way it is.

Where will the Wii and it's successor be when the novelty of motion control wears off? Right back to where they were with the Gamecube.

Again, someone presumes to guess what Nintendo's next console will be like. Based on what, sir?

And the Wii was released in 2006. It is now 2010. It HAS sold like hotcakes for years.

[Lone_Prodigy]

To the OP, I think you're focused too much on "winning". IMO, there is no "winning" the console war. Technology continues to evolve, trends come and go, companies may come and go. The industry can be unpredictable, but Nintendo has continued to evolve and survive for over 20 years. That has to count for something, and they're not just cruising along either. With the Wii and 3DS they have shown that they can take the lead in technology. Could a Nintendo/Sony Playstation have ended the console war? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe Sega would still be around if that had happened, or MS would've jumped earlier into the console war.

It's definitely interesting to speculate how certain mergers would go, but all three companies are too established to do that at the moment. I think a more interesting discussion at this time would be the entry of Apple into the gaming market.

The difference between Nintendo and Sony/MS is that the former only makes games and consoles. I can't see Nintendo abandoning either hardware or software, because that's all they do. Sony and MS of course have other divisions so they could go back to those. But yes, if Nintendo was in financial trouble they may attach themselves to a rival. I think a more realistic scenario would be Nintendo being solely a handheld company and concentrating their efforts in that market.

[Xenogears]

yeah, even if there are some interesting points in these last posts all the "Trolll! Get out" ones kind of taint em. If your giving reasons why it wont happen, why it could, discussing the implications of it; good job. If your just being a hypocritical hater troll, again, fuck off. Sony's position after the PS1 was just as, if not more stable than the Wii's is currently. And it lost its top spot. So could nintendo. I still like nintendo games, but its system has got some seriously delusional and overprotective fanboys. You've made up your mind that im nothing but a troll, maybe i should just go back to bashing wii again, since most seem to be doing nothing other than desperately trying to defend it and cover any of its faults that get brought up. Wii is the best console ever? Even with still next to no decent 3rd party support? Nope. Nintendo is destined to lead the console wars? Nope.

[niceguyshawne]

Nintendo's final mistake, and this one is a bigee, is watering down their brand name by permitting all the shovelware that comes out for it's system. Yes, even as kids we had our share of Yo! Noid and Barbie Supermodel games, but they were the exception, not the rule. These days the Nintendo seal of approval means nothing, as every week doens upon dozens of absolute garbage games that have no business being sold to consumers get released for the Wii.



I think the shovelware problem is more indicative of the generation leader than a mistake on Nintendo's part. The leader of every console generation gets a multitude of cheaply made games. Look at some of the stuff that came out on the Playstation and PS2.

[Chuplayer]

Sony has the best graphics (largely due to Blu-ray disc's size capacity)

Quick! Somebody jimmy-rig a blu-ray drive to an Atari 2600! It will be the best and cheapest console ever! It will blow the Wii away!

Back on topic, Nintendo is rolling in the success right now. They're not pulling a SEGA. Get a grip.

[uncle5555]

I don't think they are going to pull a Sega but I do think they are going down a bad path with their console plan.

They have a fantastic strategy right now of having cheap hardware that has a novelty factor to pull in non-gamers. My parents and all of their friends love the Wii/comment on how they'll have to get one. The big problem is that they only play it in groups and never bought another game for it. They treat it like a karaoke machine. That's a bad thing...

The Wii seems like a great thing for the short term but a horrible thing for the long term. How long until the fun of motion control wears off and you are stuck with a Gamecube type situation (underpowered hardware with only Nintendo games keeping it afloat)?

Couldn't say it better myself. I was talking with my nephew within the last two months and we talked about how us the long time "gamers" in the family were the only ones NOT to own a Wii (at the time of our discussion) however quite a few members in our extended family did. I pointed out the fact that you made perfectly, they buy it, play Wii Sports / Mario Kart and nothing else....at all.

Thing is console makers make their money say it with me "the software" I don't care if Nintendo is profiting on hardware, that is not where the money is and never has been. So all of these casuals who buy the system leave it languishing with bare bones software collections since that novelty has worn off.

So while Nintendo might innovate they seemed to ignore their core business, and this is something that might come back to bite'em in the future.

Oh as for Pokemon it won't keep them afloat forever, Guitar Hero / Activision anyone?

And as their market gets more sophisticated they'll turn to who, the competition, for bigger and better thrills and to be able to play movies, go online and do other things.

Anyone see the new Wii Netflix commercials, coincidence?


Their last 3D handheld didnt go so well :) The 3DS will probably sell if its not overpriced, works well, and doesn't give nasty hangover like side-effects.

If nintendo comes up with a new innovation for their next home console, I think sony and microsoft are going to be quicker to say screw it, and throw it on their console or 1up it as quick as possible. If nintendo is using last-gen graphics again, and sticking to their "protect the children" no online policy; that would be a tough spot. Especially if the mainstream doesnt bite the hype like last time and get an early lead.



Exactly Nintendo isn't bullet proof, oh how easily some forget the Virtual Boy, and the last few consoles (I own them all, btw, minus my original NES I sold back in the 90's)

They had zero 3rd party support towards the end, and most of the late middle section too of their lifespans. This is a shame as Nintendo used to be the buzz word for gaming.

I think the main thing that will kill them in innovation is the same rehash of franchises, we buy the new system, we play the new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., etc. Ad Infinitum. Over and over the cycle goes on.

Just think Miyamoto isn't getting any younger and many of their staff from the 80's are pushing their mid 50's and I have yet to see the next Miyamoto come out from them, Tajiri would be the last one I can think of and that's been over a decade now since he created Pokemon. Remember Drill Dozer his last "new" game, yeah well not many others do...

Nintendo's biggest weakness to me is dependence on their core franchises, they need to develop newer games, everybody hyped Pikmin when it came out since Miyamoto created it, but seriously is it a system seller? Does the average Joe know who Capt. Olimar is?

They don't seem to want to support new IP when they aren't massive successes (Fire Emblem, Legend of Starfy, Tingle, Wario, Kid Icarus, Kirby) the last two I mentioned are getting new games, but how long has it been since both had a proper console game, for Icarus since the NES game, for Kirby not as long, but he's doomed to live the same mini-game or mishmash title that Wario seems forever stuck in.

As innovative as they are they seem stuck in the old mindset of if it ain't broke don't fix it. And that will be their ultimate mistake. I applaud their drastic recreation of Metroid with Other M, while others dismissed it and were weary of the change it brought ("OOooohh, it's scary") I think that all of the games need that change to bring new life to them as series and to Nintendo as a whole.

They need to embrace what others have done well and then go off and do what they do best for themselves.



I have owned every sony and nintendo console. And just find it interesting that for 3 generations i have bought 4-6 times more games for the sony. I used to prefer nintendo too, but own just 6 Wii games (Mario, Zelda, metroid; thats it) compared to 20 plus PS3 games. Which are all just as good.

I could say the same thing, right now I have double the PS3 games that I have Wii games, just because there just isn't anything out there I really want.

I even went so far as to hunt up hidden gems and under-appreciated games that were posted here and elsewhere on the net while they were easy to find and most importantly cheap.

But the thing is while the 3rd party hidden gems are there, as time goes on they are becoming less and less, because those same developers are leaving the SS Wii and heading for better accommodations and better profits for their software (the only place they'll make money)

Take Deadly Creatures on Wii, it could have been a 1st party title with it's production values and quality, but like almost every non-1st party Wii title that isn't appealing to casuals it got lost in the mix and now is relegated to those aforementioned lists.

So the quality developers are out there, they just aren't being shown the incentive for being a top tier Wii developer is worth it and also being shown a console manufacturer who seems not to give a damn whether they sink or float. (And with the Wii and GC genertation, this much is hard to deny, just look at all the biggest 3rd party devs and where their big name titles of the season are going, and it's mostly not on Wii)

Seems like besides being innovators with systems, Nintendo is consistent with one other thing, crapping on 3rd parties and not supporting their software endeavors and that ultimately is the biggest shame of all.


F.Y.I.
Oh and finally cussing everyone out and calling them names isn't the proper way to have a intelligent discourse or make yourself a place on this board...so please make a note of this for future reference.

And for the record, I do agree with some of the sentiments you've brought up, even though as I just said, if not the way you're going about stating it. ;)

[spmahn]

I think the shovelware problem is more indicative of the generation leader than a mistake on Nintendo's part. The leader of every console generation gets a multitude of cheaply made games. Look at some of the stuff that came out on the Playstation and PS2.

That's true, and while perception may not necessarily be reality, I perceive shovelware on the Wii to be a far more pervasive problem than on any previous system, simply because the number of must have games on the Wii number so few in comparison. Yes, there may have been a lot of absolute garbage released on PS1 and PS2, but the number of must have games on those systems easily outnumbered the crap at least 10 to 1. That's not the case with the Wii, in fact the opposite now is true, the amount of garbage released on the Wii outnumbers the games you absolutely have to play by a wide margin.

[IceBlueShoes]

I don't think Nintendo is going the exact route of Sega, but they're not too far off and I would be concerned.

While I don't own a Wii, a large reason I got a 360 over a Wii is because for me, motion controls feel gimmicky and forced. The only game I've played where I've felt they make sense is Wario.
IMO a lot of the other games like Zelda, Smash Bros and Mario Galaxy, could've been done w/o the waggles. 2/3 were.

As its been mentioned before a lot of the casuals that have picked up a Wii, treat it like a karaoke machine. Wii Sports is neat, but why "bowl" at home, if I can go out to do it? Having said that, a lot of these customers aren't buying other games.
Now look at the PS3/360, console owners buy multiple games. It's no wonder the 3rd parties are leaving?!

For me, this was the 1st time I've never had a Nintendo console. I was really hoping the Wii would be something amazing, but when all was said and done, it comes across as a novelty to me. I regret selling my GC. I've tried to get 1 back, but it's almost impossible finding component cables.
I'm not saying it "sucks" totally, but while I will be getting a Wii, it'll be to play my old GC games primarily, like Twilight Princess, F-Zero and Chibi-Robo.

As for how Nintendo is being like Sega, Nintendo is pretty much the only one selling games for their systems. They also seem to be stuck in the past as far as innovation goes as well as catering to the non-Japanese crowd, ie virtually no online play/community, lack of storage space, no DLC, and so on.
Even Sega was more innovative in terms of online content.

Only time will tell.

[antlp89]

OP is wasting a lot of people's time.

[Cry Havoc]

Wii is the best console ever? Even with still next to no decent 3rd party support? Nope. I don't remember anyone saying that. Nintendo is destined to lead the console wars? Nope. Don't recall anyone saying that either.

[Xenogears]

antlp, look at your own post, and the one just below you. Every one of those useless, or nitpicking messages re-ups this thread. You are the ones waisting everyones time, giving this thread more life than i ever anticipated. Im fine with letting it end. 50% of this is people just trying to kill this as fast as they can by yelling troll troll troll. You want to kill it? stop posting that useless stuff. Thats pretty much all ive been responding to for most of this. Or is that the point of it?

Cry Havoc, you want to be nitpicky about the 2 sentences you took out of context? Where did I ever say that anyone said Wii was the best console ever? Nowhere. Hows that for nitpicky?

Yes, I should not be cussing people out. The general response to this has been pretty idiotic and disgusting, but i should be better than that. i wonder, if i simply posed the question, is sony/microsoft/sega going to stop making consoles, and just make games...I doubt i'd get so much hate. Its the irrational trolls that my f-bombs are directed at. If your a nintendo fan, fine. So am I. If your one that is just spreading hate and trying to shit on anyone that brings up the Wiis faults, or the possibility of nintendo losing sales/going 3rd party developer/partnering with sony or microsoft in the FUTURE; thats wrong, and thats who my f-bombs are directed at.

Anyway, yes; only time will tell if nintendo stays a home console developer or goes 3rd party. Think thats a good closing argument for this "discussion."

[CoffeeEdge]

Every one of those useless, or nitpicking messages re-ups this thread. You are the ones waisting everyones time, giving this thread more life than i ever anticipated.

Translation: "My trolling for attention has been successful. Every reply to this thread makes me even more aroused. Feed me. Feed me more."

[Xenogears]

Translation: "My trolling for attention has been successful. Every reply to this thread makes me even more aroused. Feed me. Feed me more."

Translation: Coffee needs to get his troll on. I just tried to end this. Anything not clear there? How about now? Want to troll more, blame it on someone that has actually made a point in here, then whine about the thread still going?

i feel the need to defend myself from petty insults. Stop making them, i stop posting. Thread ends. Couldnt be more clear here. Otherwise, keep on trolling, and pump this thread up.

[Cry Havoc]

Cry Havoc, you want to be nitpicky about the 2 sentences you took out of context? Where did I ever say that anyone said Wii was the best console ever? Nowhere. Hows that for nitpicky?

Then why were you answering your own questions? The way you posed the questions followed by an answer implies you were responding in some way to something someone had said. So what is it, you have a split personality or something? Or do you just like non sequiturs?

Feel free to explain to me the proper context I'm supposed to take those questions in, because I am out of explanations.

[Steggy]

Take a look at their actually 10K reports, and not base solely on Net Income... Net income is not a solid indicator at all of financial stability in the future... Just saying.

I agree that I haven't played my wii in a while, but when I do im far more into it than I am the other consoles I own. Their games are, and have always been, about quality of their games and not quantity or gimmicks.

[moothemagiccow]

you are all wrong. nintendo will branch out into potted plants, and sony will follow blindly. microsoft will take a detour into fruit before raising cabbages

[Xenogears]

Sony's position after the PS1 was just as, if not more stable than the Wii's is currently. And it lost its top spot. So could nintendo. most seem to be doing nothing other than desperately trying to defend it and cover any of its faults that get brought up. Wii is the best console ever? Even with still next to no decent 3rd party support? Nope. Nintendo is destined to lead the console wars? Nope.

My intended point was the Wii is by no measure of quality the best console ever, and nintendo is not somehow destined to win and stay in the console race just because of its heritage. Exactly what I said. The implication of this, when combined with my saying sony lost its top spot, and it could fail, is that nintendo could too. A response to all those saying never gonna happen. I already said it was unlikely, but when asked to, brought up some of the problems they have had with their past 3 generations of home consoles. Which I would argue are much bigger than any problems sony had in comparison to its competitors during the PS1 era.

Yes, nintendo currently has nice balance sheets. 5, 10, 15 years is a long time. Again, I found the concept of nintendo going third party interesting. Thought about some of nintendo's problems with consoles, thought about how much sony or microsoft would love to get mario on their system. How far they would go to do that, and if nintendo were again in financial trouble, what they would do. I'm not aware of any major partnerships/mergers in the console market, and just thought "woah" when I had the thought of nintendo partnering with someone, and just making games and maybe R&D.

So again, if you feel the need to hate on that, call me insane, or just engage in some recreational trolling: go ahead, but its getting old and drawn out. Especially if you do so then call me a troll for your upping an effectively dead topic. Any more pressing concerns?

[Sporadic]

Again, someone presumes to guess what Nintendo's next console will be like. Based on what, sir?

And the Wii was released in 2006. It is now 2010. It HAS sold like hotcakes for years.

It has but now sales are starting to slow and their competitors are either ripping them off out right (PlayStation Move) or trying to innovate further on that idea (Microsoft's Kinect). It is only a matter of time before the "wow, this is amazing" shine wears off of motion controls and the nongamers who jumped on with Wii jump back off.

Where else can Nintendo go beyond the current motion controls they have? Cameras like Kinect so they can go controllerless?

Also how long will third party companies go out of their way to make a special Wii version when they aren't selling?

[Salamando3000]

Kind of a pity this thread turned out the way it did. There's a genuine topic for discussion here that got off on the wrong foot, due to a a title and OP that's fairly troll-baity.

Prior to the Wii, many people thought Nintendo was on thin ice. The Gamecube and N64 weren't entirely bad consoles, but were still stuck in second place behind Sony and were plagued by a lack of decent third party software. Even the Wii still has a problem with the latter part. I consider Motion Controls to be a bit of a "hail Mary pass" for them...they didn't know if it would work, but if it did, they'd be right back on top. And boy, did it ever work. It got shown off on TV shows, had word-of-mouth throughout suburbia, and, just generally speaking, got its name into the minds of a lot of people who've never even thought of playing a console before.

That brings up the question I think the OP was trying to ask...should Nintendo fail to recreate that lightning, and fails to do something new enough to generate that same groundswell of buzz, will their consoles continue to be successfull?

[Lone_Prodigy]

I went back and re-read the OP since he seems to be getting all uppity over the posts calling him a troll and flaming him. He actually makes a couple of valid points, but could flesh them out with more evidence.

The OP points out that the Wii and its successor may not be able to tap into the core gamer market again. To that I respond with the state of video games in society today. Go back about 10, 15 years. Video games were a niche market. The stereotype of pimply nerds sitting in their parents' basement playing games was prevalent. Nobody really talked about games in the same way that they talked about movies.

Nowadays, it's a billion-dollar industry with ties to Hollywood and most other forms of entertainment. With 3D TV and films we have 3D gaming. Actors are lending their talents to games. Walk into a seniors' home and you may find a Wii sitting there. Soccer moms are playing Just Dance.

Looking at the next year, the core gamers may be looking at Kinect and Move now, but most already have a Wii and will be reluctant to double-dip. So what does Nintendo do? At E3 (a conference attended exclusively by "hardcore" gamers) they announce a new Zelda. A new Metroid has just been released. Kid Icarus. Kirby. Donkey Kong. Yes there was also a Mario sports game and Wii Party, but Nintendo wasn't afraid to tell their hardcore fans "we remember you. You thought we deserted you with Wii Music /Fit/Vitality Sensor. But we didn't forget."

So while Sony and MS are off to grab the attention of core gamers, Nintendo goes to franchises that haven't always sold the best, but have a dedicated following of hardcore gamers.

But you have to ask: now what? What do the core gamers want now? For all its perks, the Wii still lacks elements their HD counterparts have. Online, external memory, persistent information. These issues may affect a small percentage of Wii owners, but if Nintendo wants that hardcore crowd they'll have to do something to appease them besides the strength of their first-party titles.

Personally, I love my Wii but I hate how they always get the short end of the stick when it comes to multiplatform games. Rock Band is crippled on the Wii with no exporting feature. The last EA hockey game on a Nintendo console was NHL 06 on the GC (yes there's Slapshot, but it's not the full experience). Transformers WfC is a great game on the PS3/360: the Wii got a terrible rail-shooter. RE4 Wii had great controls but was just a port, while RE5 never made it to the Wii. CoD MW comes to the Wii two years later, released with MW2 on the PS3/360.

I think Nintendo's next move will depend on the Move/Kinect. If both do well and get lots of games (and the Wii is excluded further), then Nintendo will need a new wrinkle besides HD graphics and all the bells and whistles. A lot of people have said "if Nintendo had WiiHD they could win the console war." And yet, Sony/MS listened to the other alternative and acted on it first ("If Sony/MS had motion controls they could win the console war").

[eastshore4]

Kind of a pity this thread turned out the way it did. There's a genuine topic for discussion here that got off on the wrong foot, due to a a title and OP that's fairly troll-baity.

Prior to the Wii, many people thought Nintendo was on thin ice. The Gamecube and N64 weren't entirely bad consoles, but were still stuck in second place behind Sony and were plagued by a lack of decent third party software. Even the Wii still has a problem with the latter part. I consider Motion Controls to be a bit of a "hail Mary pass" for them...they didn't know if it would work, but if it did, they'd be right back on top. And boy, did it ever work. It got shown off on TV shows, had word-of-mouth throughout suburbia, and, just generally speaking, got its name into the minds of a lot of people who've never even thought of playing a console before.

That brings up the question I think the OP was trying to ask...should Nintendo fail to recreate that lightning, and fails to do something new enough to generate that same groundswell of buzz, will their consoles continue to be successfull?

Good points, and thanks for trying to put things back on track.

This is something I've been thinking about as well, whether Nintendo can go back to competing directly with the other consoles or if they have to do their own thing. I feel like Nintendo is probably too engrained now in their own way of doing things... the Gamecube didn't stray too far from the PS2 or Xbox (except for some smaller details) and it still sort of ended up as the last place system, if you ask me this (along with the boatloads of shovelware that wii owners buy up) might be something of a sign that Nintendo's draw is no longer in their software lineup so much as their hardware innovations.

So I guess the important question is: can they continue to succeed? Pardon the blasphemy, but I was kind of disappointed that the successor to the Nintendo DS, after a 6 year run, was... a 3D Nintendo DS, it didn't give me confidence that Nintendo had more tricks to impress us with (3D is cool, but it's hardly as game changing as a touch-screen or anything like that). Outside of my own opinion however, the response has been overwhelmingly positive, I may piss and moan about the lack of innovation but it's clear that most everyone can't get enough of it, so in some aspects I don't think people would really be indifferent to a Wii 2. I guess the counterpoint would be that the other companies are moving in on motion control turf as well so it's going to burn out the consumers (not unlike certain games featuring guitars and other musical instruments), this is a good point, and by that regard Nintendo might be forced to innovate again, to be honest I couldn't think of anything they might have up their sleeves so I guess we'll have to see about this, but of course this assumes that Move and Kinect will be successful.

[spmahn]

Although Nintendo did extend an olive branch to hardcore gamers by bringing back many of their franchise titles, but the problem lately is that they've watered down their franchises so much that people have lost faith. For example Punch Out was a great game, but despite its greatness, there was not 50 dollars worth of entertainment on that disc. You play the game, you memorize the patterns, you beat the game and that's it. 50 dollars for maybe 10-12 hours of fun.

Fans have been polarized about the Zelda series almost since Majora's Mask, and Nintendo has done almost nothing to the franchise to stop that. Same thing goes for Metroid, a franchise which many people felt took a dive when it became a FPS. I thought maybe Other M would change that, but there seems to be just as wide a range of opinions on that title as well. It's also not like anyone has really been blown away by any recent Kirby, DK, or Mario Party titles over the last decade either, and don't even get me started on all the shit Nintendo has slapped the Star Fox name to over the years.

Simply bringing back your A titles is not enough, the games actually need to be good in order for that to work, and quite honestly I have very little faith in Nintendo's ability to do that.

[Xenogears]

That brings up the question I think the OP was trying to ask...should Nintendo fail to recreate that lightning, and fails to do something new enough to generate that same groundswell of buzz, will their consoles continue to be successfull?

That has the same inherent problem as asking what nintendo or any of the big 3 will do, regarding almost anything in the future. But thanks for trying to keep this a better track than I have managed. I think its pretty safe to say that nintendo's next console will aim to lock down the mainstream market again. Their statements about viewing apple, a phone, as the competition, and not the other 2 console makers has big implications for nintendo's future.

1- it makes me think they may be changing focus to handhelds as their new primary platform.
2- They will still make consoles, but with their goal of capturing the mainstream market, I think their continued strategy will have 3 big components.

-undercut the competition
-focus on buzz generating features (Largely innovative = good, gimmicky = bad). No idea on how they will do this again, but im sure they are tyring
-3rd parties cater to the mainstream, nintendo releases 0 to 2 games a year

I dont know for a fact that it will be, but this strategy just leads me to believe that their next system will again be a shovelware haven

Also, nintendo is betting on the mainstream, but it is an elusive thing. Like i remember a long time ago, tickle me elmo was making the news, people were fighting over it in stores, and people were saying WTF? I'm sure they tried a tickle me elmo 2.0, tried everything they could to continue those staggering sales, but eventually it died. Im not comparing Wii to elmo, but using it as an example of things that sell way more than they logically should compared to competition.

If nintendo fails to generate the lightning and buzz of the wii with their next console, I think it would be comparable to the gamecube or N64s relative success. If the mainstream fails to buy it, and some of the fallout with hardcore gamers makes them care less about the next mario/metroid/zelda, they would not buy the console, until it was proven. Nintendo fans were still fully onboard for the N64 and gamecube. I question whether they will be again. Those that buy many Wii games and like it, probably day 1 buy for the Wii2. Those that only own 5, 6 games; and arn't thrilled with it. Waiting. Thats a new position for nintendo to be in.

Then you have to consider what Sony, Microsoft, Apple, the PC market will do. Anything could happen.

[Theduck]

Dumbass, fix your spelling buy = by. Guess i should have expected that from retard fanboys getting their feelings hurt. To the people saying this has been said forever, no shit. I'm a gamer, I know that, but lets try discussing why that is instead of just flaming. If you think this is a pointless discussion, then just leave your self out of it and let it die.

Even with Nintendo's success and their good E3, they have a dirty name to me now or something. I would prefer they just made games, not consoles, cause thats what they are better at. That and making money off their inferior consoles. LOL...thats gonna rile the fanboys up.

Listen, Nintendo isn't going anywhere for a long time. The Wii is barely selling anymore to the casual because most casuals already own a Wii. The DS has reached a point in which if someone was going to get one, they have one. Nintendo at the moment is doing well because of the initial boost of the Wii and the constant steady sales of the DS. Will they be okay in the coming years? Who knows. As far as I'm concerned I think the Wii is a big pile of steaming crap. I was into it at first like most of us were, but like most of us I began disliking it for it's high level of casual and repetative licenced games. Sure, Sony and Microsoft are guilty of this as well, but at least I can watch blu rays on the PS3, which is why Its the only console I own at this time. The last game I enjoyed on the Wii was new mario bros Wii. My biggest problem with the Wii is that I feel like I've been playing the same games since the N64/Gamecube era.

The 3DS will decide the next generation for Nintendo, like the DS and the gameboy advanced before it.

Sometimes I think nintendo puts more effort into their handhelds.

Oh and you can thank Nintendo for crap like Kinect and the Playstation Move. gimmicky gimmicks are gimmicky.

3D is the next step, not the movement games. The movement games are made to fill the gap between this Gen and 3D.

[Cry Havoc]

My intended point was the Wii is by no measure of quality the best console ever, and nintendo is not somehow destined to win and stay in the console race just because of its heritage. Exactly what I said. The implication of this, when combined with my saying sony lost its top spot, and it could fail, is that nintendo could too. A response to all those saying never gonna happen. I already said it was unlikely, but when asked to, brought up some of the problems they have had with their past 3 generations of home consoles. Which I would argue are much bigger than any problems sony had in comparison to its competitors during the PS1 era.

Yes, nintendo currently has nice balance sheets. 5, 10, 15 years is a long time. Again, I found the concept of nintendo going third party interesting. Thought about some of nintendo's problems with consoles, thought about how much sony or microsoft would love to get mario on their system. How far they would go to do that, and if nintendo were again in financial trouble, what they would do. I'm not aware of any major partnerships/mergers in the console market, and just thought "woah" when I had the thought of nintendo partnering with someone, and just making games and maybe R&D.

So again, if you feel the need to hate on that, call me insane, or just engage in some recreational trolling: go ahead, but its getting old and drawn out. Especially if you do so then call me a troll for your upping an effectively dead topic. Any more pressing concerns?

I'm assuming this was directed at me, even though you quoted yourself for some reason. My original post was a lot longer and on topic, but I don't think it will go anywhere since you seem to be taking everything so negatively. So here goes...

My intended point was the Wii is by no measure of quality the best console ever, and nintendo is not somehow destined to win and stay in the console race just because of its heritage. I agree. I also don't know a single person who has said otherwise, so I don't know why it's even being addressed. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the poing of the thread. Hence my confusion.

So again, if you feel the need to hate on that, call me insane, or just engage in some recreational trolling: go ahead, but its getting old and drawn out. Especially if you do so then call me a troll for your upping an effectively dead topic. Any more pressing concerns?I see, so I try to understand what the fuck your point in all this rambling is during this thread (take note: I'm not the only one who feels this way) and suddenly I'm trolling you? Maybe if you took your Midol, stayed on topic, and flushed out your hypothetical a little better you'd get some higher quality of discussion. As it stands, almost everyone thinks YOU are the troll.

Of course tons of Wiis and DS's are selling, so I have absolutly no basis for saying this; but I think Nintendo could be out of the console business within 5 to 10 years. My predicition is that they either team with SONY and develop exclusively for them, or become a 3rd party developer like SEGA. They will probably stay big with their handheld systems though.

My prediction is that this won't happen, and I and others DO have a basis for saying that. So I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree. Well, I will respectfully disagree, and you will probably cry about how I and others are trolling you.

Feel free to correct any spelling/ grammatical errors you see, since that will help the discussion move along.

[Xenogears]

Okie dokie...someones still got issues. Dont keep coming to a thread you claim is so terrible, tell me to take midol, again imply I'm insane, and add nothing to it other than trying to mock/bash it. In your 3 posts, the most significant thing you have done is repeatedly ask me to clarify 2 pretty straight fowards sentences and call me insane/split personality/take my midol. You have a psychology degree? No? I do...just saying, so cut that BS out

You say im taking everything so negatively? How do you expect me to respond to "take your midol!". That is trolling, and trying to bait me and others into more useless bashing. but yes, we can "respectfully" disagree.

I had another thought I found interesting. Nintendo somehow positioned itself as the "fun" mainstream console. While in comparison, the 360 and PS3 are viewed as "nerdy", hardcore gamer only. If this perception really exists among the mainstream, it is probably Sony and Microsofts biggest problem for the next generation.

[Salamando3000]

Personally, I love my Wii but I hate how they always get the short end of the stick when it comes to multiplatform games. Rock Band is crippled on the Wii with no exporting feature. The last EA hockey game on a Nintendo console was NHL 06 on the GC (yes there's Slapshot, but it's not the full experience). Transformers WfC is a great game on the PS3/360: the Wii got a terrible rail-shooter. RE4 Wii had great controls but was just a port, while RE5 never made it to the Wii. CoD MW comes to the Wii two years later, released with MW2 on the PS3/360.

There's a lot of reasons why this is though. The Wii and the PS3/360 are about as different as two consoles can get. The Wii is a weaker overall system, a much more diverse (and harder to define) demographic, has no real storage solution, has a much weaker online component, and it's controller is in another zip code entirely (one analog stick, far fewer buttons, etc). They're so different that it'd be near-impossible to port a game from one system to the other. Practically the only thing they can use are the design docs. Everything else has to be rebuilt just for the Wii.

I can see that being one of the big things they'll want to do for the Wii 2 - make it easier for devs to port 360-2 and PS4 games to it.

When it comes to the 3D in general, I'm still not sold on the idea. I can understand why Nintendo would add it in, though. For starters, it's cheap. According to research done around the time the 3DS was first announced, the price difference between an LCD and the same size screen with a Parallax Barrier was only $10. Second, it'll create a clear difference between the DS and the next system. There's been 4 different versions of the DS released thus far (DS, DSlite, DSi, DS XL) and taking the DS name and simply adding a 2 or something could create some brand confusion. Finally, 3D's currently the "in" thing, but we all know how that can fluctuate.

I also wish Nintendo would create more big franchises. All of their E3 offerings were IP's that've been around for the better part of 20 years. If they built a new Super Smash Bros right now, how many characters could they add from the past decade?

[Cry Havoc]

That's an interesting thought. I also had a thought I found interesting. Of course tons of 360s selling, so I have absolutly no basis for saying this; but I think Microsoft could be out of the console business within 5 to 10 years. I also predict Halo will become a Nintendo exclusive.

Also, Xbox 360 is the best console ever? Nope.

Discuss.

[Xenogears]

That's an interesting thought. I also had a thought I found interesting. Of course tons of 360s selling, so I have absolutly no basis for saying this; but I think Microsoft could be out of the console business within 5 to 10 years. I also predict Halo will become a Nintendo exclusive.

Also, Xbox 360 is the best console ever? Nope.

Discuss.

1. Halo Reach is probably the last halo game, for now
2. Bungie's next games will be multiplatform, so not the best example there
3. Yes microsoft could fail in the console business. So could nintendo
4. If that is a thought you found interesting, and wanted to discuss it. Hmmm, maybe a gaming discussion board would be a good place to do so
5. Again, you continue to do nothing but mock. If you got a point other than "I think u stoopid", then make it. You alreadly said your belief that nintendo wont fail, fine. You already said you think im crazy, have a split personality, and am on midol. That im not fine with, and you are pretty low to three times say it now. If you really want to have a discussion, take that back, and maybe i'll take you more seriously. Otherwise, you are nothing but a hate filled troll.

[Cry Havoc]

1. Halo Reach is probably the last halo game, for now
2. Bungie's next games will be multiplatform, so not the best example there
3. Yes microsoft could fail in the console business. So could nintendo
4. If that is a thought you found interesting, and wanted to discuss it. Hmmm, maybe a gaming discussion board would be a good place to do so
5. Again, you continue to do nothing but mock. If you got a point, other than "I think u stoopid!" Make it. You alreadly said your belief that nintendo wont fail, fine

1. New prediction: Halo Reach will not be the last Halo game for now. Discuss.
2. New prediction: Bungie's games won't actually be multiplatform as previously stated. Discuss.
3. I know Microsoft COULD fail. I'm predicting they WILL fail. And soon.
4. That's exactly why I posted it here, on a gaming discussion board.
5. Who's mocking? I was trying to add to the discussion. I like to make predictions too. I don't think you're stupid. In fact, I love you and want to have your children.

[Xenogears]

1. New prediction: Halo Reach will not be the last Halo game for now. Discuss.
2. New prediction: Bungie's games won't actually be multiplatform as previously stated. Discuss.
3. I know Microsoft COULD fail. I'm predicting they WILL fail. And soon.
4. That's exactly why I posted it here, on a gaming discussion board.
5. Who's mocking? I was trying to add to the discussion. I like to make predictions too. I don't think you're stupid. In fact, I love you and want to have your children.

Again, get out troll. All your doing is prolonging the thread, and acting like a jackass

[Lone_Prodigy]

There's a lot of reasons why this is though. The Wii and the PS3/360 are about as different as two consoles can get. The Wii is a weaker overall system, a much more diverse (and harder to define) demographic, has no real storage solution, has a much weaker online component, and it's controller is in another zip code entirely (one analog stick, far fewer buttons, etc). They're so different that it'd be near-impossible to port a game from one system to the other. Practically the only thing they can use are the design docs. Everything else has to be rebuilt just for the Wii.

I can see that being one of the big things they'll want to do for the Wii 2 - make it easier for devs to port 360-2 and PS4 games to it.

When it comes to the 3D in general, I'm still not sold on the idea. I can understand why Nintendo would add it in, though. For starters, it's cheap. According to research done around the time the 3DS was first announced, the price difference between an LCD and the same size screen with a Parallax Barrier was only $10. Second, it'll create a clear difference between the DS and the next system. There's been 4 different versions of the DS released thus far (DS, DSlite, DSi, DS XL) and taking the DS name and simply adding a 2 or something could create some brand confusion. Finally, 3D's currently the "in" thing, but we all know how that can fluctuate.

I also wish Nintendo would create more big franchises. All of their E3 offerings were IP's that've been around for the better part of 20 years. If they built a new Super Smash Bros right now, how many characters could they add from the past decade?

I agree that the Wii is vastly different from the PS3/360, which is why I have a PC for my HD games. But just like the Wii, the PC tends to fall by the wayside when it comes to porting. I think with Move/Kinect we may start seeing Wii ports on the PS3/360: Dead Space Extraction is going to be on the PS3, for instance. Depending on how third parties jump on the motion control bandwagon this may benefit Nintendo in the long run. Though I find the Kinect to be the "odd one out" in terms of motion control hardware.

As for new IP's, I think all three companies are having difficulty introducing new ones. Sony has Uncharted and LBP, MS has Gears, but most of the biggest sellers are established franchises (MGS, GTA, Halo, CoD). Nintendo has tried other IP's: Battalion Wars, Excite, Fire Emblem, but those haven't garnered sales.

Anyway, I think we should create a new thread for this discussion. It keeps getting derailed by some posters and I think there have been some good points presented thus far.

[BattleChicken]

This thread is an interesting read. The OP seems to reject everything anyone says as "ZOMG TROL", ignoring any valid points a person may interject along with their "The premise of this thread is absurd" comments.

I have my own crazy prediction, based on the same logic: I predict that Microsoft will be out of the OS business in 5-10 years, despite their currently overwhelming market presence and successful business model.

[Xenogears]

This thread is an interesting read. The OP seems to reject everything anyone says as "ZOMG TROL", ignoring any valid points a person may interject along with their "The premise of this thread is absurd" comments.

I have my own crazy prediction, based on the same logic: I predict that Microsoft will be out of the OS business in 5-10 years, despite their currently overwhelming market presence and successful business model.

K, show me a valid point and my ZOMG TROL comment that went along with it, in its full context. If you can't then your simply lying or mistaken. Thats not welcome. If you view the OP as far-fetched, i've admitted that many times, and now changed the OP to accomodate. However, many valid points have been made as to why its not all that far out a notion, and I find it interesting. If you dont find it interesting, why bother reading and posting? If you disagree with points or concerns that have been raised, refute them. There are plenty available, and plenty of arguments for both sides.

Thirdrose's comment below brings up interesting counter-points. On the basis of overall "quality" of the console and content provided to gamers, I would rank Nintendo systems SNES > Gamecube > N64 > Wii. So I would obviously diasagree that Wii is best console ever, but best in getting the attention of the mainstream? No question. Is this good for gamers? In many ways yes, in many ways no.

[thirdrose]

My intended point was the Wii is by no measure of quality the best console ever, and nintendo is not somehow destined to win and stay in the console race just because of its heritage.
I agree. I also don't know a single person who has said otherwise, so I don't know why it's even being addressed. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the poing of the thread. Hence my confusion.

I apologize for possibly derailing this thread, but I'm going to go ahead and be the one who says that I find the Wii to be the best console ever. Insane, right? The Wii has the worst graphics this generation, a less than ideal online component, a seemingly endless supply of shovelware, and what will soon be an inferior motion controller. So, why?

It convinced a wide variety of people to play video games. You can talk about low software attach-rates and gameplay longevity (things that I don't refute), but I can't help but feel that the Wii helped make our hobby a bit more mainstream. I'm not well-versed in video game history, so I can't claim that the Wii is the first, or even the most successful, gaming system to do this. All I know is that its accessibility garnered positive media coverage that eventually turned into a fair amount of acceptance for what was once widely considered an anti-social and, at times, unhealthy activity. Also, it doesn't hurt that it's the system that offers me the most games that I'm interested in.

Which leads me to the comment about heritage. I'm curious if either Microsoft or Sony would be successful in this industry if they only allowed new IPs on their systems (ie. no sequels ever). I may be naive, but I believe building heritage helps sell consoles (hell, I bought a PS3 years ago solely for the promise of Project Trico). The fact that Nintendo was able to craft franchises that have resonated well with audiences of vastly different ages, for decades, is reason enough for them to stay in the console race.

[seanr1221]

I think if Nintendo went with a Gamecube 2, they still wouldn't be up for extinction, but they'd be on thin ice.

I'm sure with the huge surge of cash this gen, Nintendo beefed up their R&D. I don't expect them to go anywhere anytime soon.

My biggest gripe with the Wii is lack of third party support. Can you really blame companies? Their games just don't sell on the Wii like they do on the 360/PS3.

[bardiya27]

The Wii might have the worst graphics, but the Gamecube was 2nd most powerful of his generation, and the N64 was the most powerful for its time (until the Dreamcast). No reason to think the Wii 2 can't be the most powerful system or as good as it's comeptitors.

[Xenogears]

The Wii might have the worst graphics, but the Gamecube was 2nd most powerful of his generation, and the N64 was the most powerful for its time (until the Dreamcast). No reason to think the Wii 2 can't be the most powerful system or as good as it's comeptitors.

Sure Wii 2 can have the best graphics of the next generation. But will it? Prediciting that is just as out there as predicting that Nintendo will fail.

Heres my reasons and thought process for saying this:
1. Nintendo has made a ton of money this generation, by appealing to the mainstream market
2. Nintendo wants to keep making money off the mainstream market
3. Nintendo's success came largely from undercutting the competition on price
4. The mainstream market wants cheap. Has largly shown they dont care about, and arn't willing to pay for better graphics, with their lack of interest in PS3, 360
5. Better graphics mean the machine will cost more

So, my guess is nintendo will again release the comparitively weakest console. If all this provides is a graphics upgrade over the Wii, the mainstream probably wont care about, or buy it. If it has nothing new to offer other than graphics that the PS3 did 5 years ago, the hadrcore probably wont care or buy it either. So nintendo's biggest out is another innovation/gimmick that allows them to appeal to mainstream with a low price point. This is what nintnedo is trying for, but its rare for lightning to strike twice. Without it, nintendo may go back to the N64, gamecube days. With the same problems regarding 3rd party support, and the same high chance that they could go 3rd party.

[rlse9]

Without it, nintendo may go back to the N64, gamecube days. With the same problems regarding 3rd party support, and the same high chance that they could go 3rd party.
Except that there was never any real chance that they were going 3rd party because, like has been mentioned here multiple times, Nintendo was still a profitable company the entire time and both the N64 and Gamecube were profitable systems. Sega had multiple failures before their going 3rd party. Every Nintendo console has been profitable.

The more I think about it, I think it's more likely that Nintendo ends up as a 3rd party company in the handheld market. I know that sounds crazy right now given the huge success of the DS and how highly anticipated the 3DS is but the iPhone/iPod Touch/Android are a threat to handheld gaming in the traditional sense. The iPod Touch alone outsells the PSP and DS combined. And I think we're more and more becoming a one device society and for most people, including me, if I'm bringing one device with me on the go, it's the iPod, not the DS.

I'm not saying it will happen, or even that it's likely to happen, just that it wouldn't surprise me. If you asked people 5 years ago if the point and shoot camera would be dying anytime soon they'd tell you that's crazy, digital cameras are more popular than ever. But now a lot of tech experts think point and shoot cameras are going to be a niche market in the very near future because phone cameras have become so much better and are more convenient. Could handheld systems go the same route? Probably not anytime soon but you never know.

[sciafb]

This thread really might not want to be troll feed but it really asks for it .. hard..

But I'll toss a few pellets myself.. here goes

Nintendo is not going to pull a Sega, It's always easy and it actually makes perfect sense at the moment to look at what has happened and say its the coming of the end from a few mistakes. The way you people are talking is effectively meaningless, I'm sure critics talked the same way when the N64 didn't use CD's and the Virtual Boy just released before it (that N64 was delayed) was a total flop. Don't bother telling me well it was a shit system, I'm sure you would have thought it was cool at the time like 3d on the 3ds is now. But see, the 3ds is not just about 3d, you can turn it off, its not betting the farm on that, Nintendo plays their cards pretty well in that regard they don't act like Microsoft and Sony generally have, by just pumping out the best tech they see as an affordable console (or worth the buzz words they bring "HD" etc). At least in terms of a track record, they made the e-reader and that didn't do that well, and they try different things like connectivity of the gamecube to gba. While some things don't take off it doesn't mean they are on the wrong path!

Take a step back for a moment when you speak of the quality of games available, your personal taste in games makes you bias against your own judgment does it not? When you see all the games on Wii and nothing actually interests you, you personally feel that its not doing well despite the sales, right? Now, I do share feelings of dumbing down a franchise like Zelda but it might be misplaced feelings. Some people hated Navi in Ocarina of Time because she wouldn't shut up always getting in your way telling you about something going on in the game she couldn't hold back and let you ask for it.

Nintendo has goals and it would seem they are pretty obvious if we are talking about selling games to everyone, it just makes business sense. And it works. The dumbing down is their balancing act of getting it to work for all ages while at the same time bringing out the game which happens to really be a hardcore title. This can be hard with some games but they have made a good solution with the idea of "super guides" for their games to keep us gamers happy while letting everyone able to play who suck at games. :P

Lets see what did I forget to mention... oh yes! Games, every generation is different than the last, and it depends on your tastes which will decide if a generation was good for a particular console. I think being a bit subjective and looking at the real number of 3rd party games on the Wii its really no different than NES gen in some ways. There's a ton of games and a nice chunk of great games no one can deny is worth playing.
I really think the Wii is comparative to the NES gen (everyone else always looks at it like that) and because of that fact, the next system will do almost if not just as well when it brings HD to Nintendo titles when people actually care and can enjoy it (so many people played xbox and ps3 on crt's still, so what it actually means is they were interested in the GAMES not the fuckin graphics).

The system after the Wii will be the 2nd coming of the gold years in my opinion (those of you who consider the super nintendo the best of the best of overall great games almost all across the board). Nintendo will probably get these things right based on what they know they need to do better and what they will bring:

-More robust and overall better functionality in online play to their first real entry into it on the Wii.

-It will be more powerful than Wii, if history is any indication it will be at least as powerful as 2 wii's and a half if not more.

-It will be at least 720p output its likely they would make that the minimal and allow 1080p similar to how ps3 and xbox360 have it settled.

-It will continue the idea of motion having a place in the controls of gaming, we won't know how it will evolve but it will not be leaving, and instead become a staple inclusion like the rumble.

-The quality control will be stepped up in a way that to prevent some 3rd party dev's from shitting all over Nintendo's market and bring down the overall gaming selection.

-Something new will come along, what is it? I don't think it will be 3d when thats the 3ds selling point, for a console that might not even catch on for the issue of needing to replace our new hdtv's... its a bit too soon, people like to keep tv's for ALOT longer. But who knows.


So that's all I'm gonna bother saying, enjoy it or don't. I own all consoles. This gen has been so full of fps's it makes me want to puke, for other people they are so happy they could piss their pants and still happily play every release of call of duty or something.

[xmbri]

The Nintendo brass has always said they hold everything to themselves and that they wait until the right time to release innovative products so that the competition will not get them. So the OP theory is severly blown. I believe it was during the 3DS reveal at E3 that this was said.
No way Nintendo is going software only and no way they are getting out of the hardware business. They are the only company consistently making money and the casual gamer market is bigger than hardcore games would like to admit. This is why DS and Wii consistently sell. No matter how you feel about things, the casual gamers have won out this gen. Not that I think this is great or not as a hardcore gamer myself, I just chose to accept fact. Sony and Microsoft are trying the casual market too remember.

[Wolfpup]

What I'd LOVE from Nintendo is what they did with the Gamecube. Provide modern hardware with no gimmicks and focus on great games for it.

But...obviously that didn't work out great for them, so... :( It's all the fault of the dorks who didn't buy Gamecube stuff, darn it!

Maybe Nintendo can trick Sony and Microsoft into ditching their real controllers for Movement and Project Shitbox, trick them into continuing to support old systems...and then Nintendo can release like a Geforce GTX 580 + Sandy Brige based console for $300 next year (through magic) that uses a normal controller, and suck back in all the hard core gamers PLUS the people now randomly buying Nintendo again. :-D

[Xenogears]

The Nintendo brass has always said they hold everything to themselves and that they wait until the right time to release innovative products so that the competition will not get them. So the OP theory is severly blown.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that, or how it severly blows the OP. Same with Sciafb's comments, I tried following them, but it seems like your doing alot of rambling, not backing up points, and making some stuff up. I'm saying that even with nintendo's success, they are still in a tough position with some of the fallout from hardcore gamers and the fickleness of the mainstream. I would not be surprised if they lost their top spot in the next gen, then started running into financial trouble after that.

If their next system can compete graphically with Sonys and Microsofts next, and they can get some good 3rd party support; nintendo would get back alot of the hardcore, but possibly lose the mainstream market because of price. Especially if another console offers a cheaper option, with a new gimmick. Maybe an improvement on Kinect?

Also, when I heard nintendo starting to hype their next system. Saying it will be jaw dropping. I had a thought about what their next thing could be. Return of the Power Glove! Not so much a glove, but some kind of finger sensors, that could register "button presses" just by flicking a finger. Combine that with a kinect like motion system, and there you have "buttons" and controller-less body tracking. Still have the joystick problem though. I don't know about the viability of this tech, and the "glove" or finger sensors would have to fit everyone...but its one of the few ideas i've had about what the next innovation/gimmick might be.

[Salamando3000]

I'm not really sure what you mean by that, or how it severly blows the OP. Same with Sciafb's comments, I tried following them, but it seems like your mostly just rambling and making stuff up. I'm saying that even with nintendo's success, they are still in a tough position with some of the fallout from hardcore gamers and the fickleness of the mainstream. I would not be surprised if they lost their top spot in the next gen, then started running into financial trouble after that.

I think he was saying that we cannot really judge Nintendo's future quite yet, as Nintendo claims their new console will have some kind of innovation that their competitors will be unable to match. To me, the statement sounds like typical PR speak. I don't expect an exec to come out and say "Hey guys, about the Wii2, we have no innovations in plan for it. It's just going to be a Wii, but with all the things people like about the PS3 and 360 added to it."

I am damn curious to see exactly where they take the Wii2. If they do try to take the Wii, and just add better hardware and a good online system, I see it falling behind Sony and Microsoft. They'll need some other kind of gimmick/innovation to get those that already have a Wii to trade-up.

[Droenixjpn]

With Nintendo's latest innovation, I am excited to see what Nintendo comes up with next. (Hopefully they include rechargeable batteries with their next console...)

[Wolfpup]

Hopefully they DON'T. I don't want proprietary batteries, for multiple reasons.

[IceBlueShoes]

Except that there was never any real chance that they were going 3rd party because, like has been mentioned here multiple times, Nintendo was still a profitable company the entire time and both the N64 and Gamecube were profitable systems. Sega had multiple failures before their going 3rd party. Every Nintendo console has been profitable.

The more I think about it, I think it's more likely that Nintendo ends up as a 3rd party company in the handheld market. I know that sounds crazy right now given the huge success of the DS and how highly anticipated the 3DS is but the iPhone/iPod Touch/Android are a threat to handheld gaming in the traditional sense. The iPod Touch alone outsells the PSP and DS combined. And I think we're more and more becoming a one device society and for most people, including me, if I'm bringing one device with me on the go, it's the iPod, not the DS.

I'm not saying it will happen, or even that it's likely to happen, just that it wouldn't surprise me. If you asked people 5 years ago if the point and shoot camera would be dying anytime soon they'd tell you that's crazy, digital cameras are more popular than ever. But now a lot of tech experts think point and shoot cameras are going to be a niche market in the very near future because phone cameras have become so much better and are more convenient. Could handheld systems go the same route? Probably not anytime soon but you never know.
While I agree with you that the iPod/iPhone are the biggest threat to the DS, Apple doesn't release iPod Touch stats. They always combine them with the iPhones. I think the recent guess was 6-7million iPod Touches but no one but Apple seems to know for sure.

In any case their are plenty of cheap games for the iPod that are decent and that are priced MUCH lower than DS games. Not to mention you can do a lot more with an iPod vs a DS.
Personally I'm not a fan of touch screen games but some of them work on iPods.

[Wolfpup]

As far as I'm concerned, iOS is not a legitamate game platform. The current ones are:

-Playstation Portable
-Playstation 3
-sort of still Playstation 2
-Windows (I'd say OS X too)
-Nintendo DS
-Wii
-Xbox 360

There ARE some good games and some real games on iOS, but they're overwhelmed by garbage, and mostly it just isn't a game platform because it has a terrible interface for games. It would be like if the NES only had the Power Pad or something.

EDIT: If it were still supported, the NES would be 100x the gaming system iOS is.

[Tony208]

rofl to sum up iOS
zero first party games
a few good third party games
more garbage games than the Wii

[rlse9]

My point was not whether iOS was a "legitimate" gaming platform or a good gaming platform, just that I could see it, and potentially its competitors, becoming a threat to Nintendo. And it doesn't matter if CAGs consider it legitimate or not, if there's millions of people gaming on it, and many of those casual gamers who did buy DSes opt to use their iPhone/Android/Windows phone to satisfy their gaming, that could become an issue for Nintendo.

Again, not saying I expect Nintendo's handheld presence to disappear but I think the smart phone gaming market is more of a threat to Nintendo and Sony than most gamers believe.

[Dominick331]

I don't see Nintendo going 3rd party just yet, though its a possible future without some serious new innovation on their part. I think the key here is that Nintendo is going to be due for a new console long before Sony and Microsoft are. This could be a either a huge disadvantage or advantage for Nintendo, I am very curious to see what they will do and I seriously doubt they will step into the war between PS3/360--they would stand no chance.

[mastagoalie]

I read your post OP, I didn't read anyone else... sorry!

But for real, I am not worried about the Wii HD or the possibility of them going on the journey or sega. 3ds will totally keep nintendo in the green for the next 4 years. Nintendo will NEVER make a 3rd party game (see cd-i games).

Their next console which I expect to see at e3 this year along with the next xbox will be the next step for nintendo. Nintendo has always and will always tell us consumers what we want, and they will deliver despite what any of us think (including take two ceo feder"s kid who is far to old to play the wii). I hope the Big N well wishes and my money for the 3ds and future first day endeavors that I will grab.

[alongx]

My numbers are for microsoft as a whole, not just their Xbox division.

You think their investors and board of directors will allow them to continue to lose money on consoles indefinitely? Whereas Nintendo's only business is gaming, and they've been making a lot of money doing it for decades.

Also, keep in mind that Nintendo, a company that makes only games, has had a higher market cap than Sony, an international electronics conglomerate, for almost 3 years now. Business is good.

However, let's use your style of argument to make other outlandish predictions! Apple has higher quarterly earnings than Microsoft! Microsoft should quit making operating systems and just concede the market to Apple!

[Wolfpup]

Right now I'm randomly thinking having to launch a console sooner could be an advantage. Gives some excitement to the brand, when all they might be doing is launching a current gen system (finally). Heck, they could probably launch something fairly cheap that's still a current gen system but maybe 50% better than the Xbox/Playstation, plus have all their first party stuff (which of late seems good again), and end up with the best versions of current gen games, while the competition doesn't necessarily want to launch a next gen system in response since their hardware is still competitive.

Obviously I still wish the (then next gen) system they were working on had been released instead of what they did...