Seriously, though, Nintendo is overlooked.

[JohnHam]

Ninendo is an AAA company at the last place in this generation. For whatever reason, be it marketing or late release, they fell behind on the console front.

The Gamecube (which I don't even own) is coming out with some great titles every day that a lot of gmaers will never hear about. Even Nintendo published games like Mario Power Tennis could get lost in the shuffle this year.

And, on another note, the DS hype train is severely lacking, IMHO. The PSP seems to be getting more coverage and the DS is two weeks away!

They are both revolutionary machines, in their own ways, but Sony is the underdog, like it or not, so they are getting the attention.

So, while the old GameFAQer was annoying, he also had a point.

The End.

-John

[Ledhed]

Was this thread really necessary? (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37268&highlight=)

[guyver2077]

another thread on this??

[JohnHam]

Are you kidding? This is a thread for serious discussion, the other one disseminated into mindless flamewar in half a post.

If you are not interested in the topic, then leave, there will be no flaming, and this topic will not become another waste of space.

[snotnose_colossal]

deja vu

[guyver2077]

down with sony!

[JohnHam]

down with sony!

Seriously, what are you doing?

[guyver2077]

down with sony!

Seriously, what are you doing?

nothing really

[JohnHam]

down with sony!

Seriously, what are you doing?

nothing really

If you're trying to imply I'm a GCN fanboy, I'm not. I don't even own a GCN, I in fact just bought a PSTwo and have had an Xbox for a year now. Also, this is a GCN forum, so why is it considered automatic fanboyism to make a topic to discuss the problems and mistakes a company might have made?

Please, grow up.

[guyver2077]

i neither implied nor said such a thing

[JohnHam]

:roll:

[guardian_owl]

Hmm, I didn't know the DS release was 2 weeks away, eh, I don't really care, I'm not even thinking about purchasing it anytime soon, I'm taking a wait and see attitude, same thing with the psp.

[JohnHam]

Hmm, I didn't know the DS release was 2 weeks away, eh, I don't really care, I'm not even thinking about it anytime soon.

I'm not positive on the dates, but I'm pretty sure it's soon, within three weeks.

I think it's the 21st or 28th of November.

[guyver2077]

november 21

[Sheik Rattle Enroll]

Ditto, I'll wait and see which one gets better games. Of course I somewhat despise handhelds in general, so I'll actually probobly get neither unless one of them really blows me away.

[JohnHam]

If I got either I'd probably get DS for price, battery life, and backwards compatbility.

I read somewhere that on a graphics-heavy game, the PSP won't last longer than 2.5 hours.

[David85]

You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.

[WildWop]

Ditto, I'll wait and see which one gets better games. Of course I somewhat despise handhelds in general, so I'll actually probobly get neither unless one of them really blows me away.

That question was answered for me when they announced that they were porting Animal Crossing and adding multiplayer support. Signed, sealed, delivered.

[dcfox]

I'd like to think that Nintendo is 2nd in the console wars. As for publicity, advertising, and hype for their products if you're not really interested in them you most likely won't notice or pay attention to them. Personally I've been waiting on the DS since early this year. I've also been following the progress of Mario Tennis since it was announced. But about a week or two ago I had no idea the release of GTA SA was so close.

[AdamInPlaidum]

You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...

[gomer1andonly]

You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.

I really dont think that innovation is the cause for Nintendos "lack of success" lately. More or less, its Nintendo's lack of mainstream appeal, at least here in the US, thats causing this. I mean look at the games that sell more than anything else around here: Grand Theft Auto, Halo, Madden, basically any other sports title or FPS. Look at how well a game like Katamari Damacy has sold due to its originality and innovation. For coming out of no where, I'd say the game has done quite nice but hasn't done anything close to the numbers that the GTA's and Maddens have done and those games dont exactly bring the most innovation to the table. Plus, look at how many franchises Nintendo has under their belt: Mario, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Pikmin, F-Zero, Kirby, Pokemon, 1080, Custom Robo, Animal Crossing, Metroid, and any of the various games coming off of these series. Its hard to say that Nintendo isnt trying to do different things (Donkey Konga, Mario Pinball land) its just that people here don't eat it up like FPS's and sports games.

[willardhaven]

I think it's the fact that they used the little discs instead of standard dvds...

[Sartori]

The Gamecube (which I don't even own)

Hi. You're part of the problem.

-Josh

[epobirs]

Lets see. National TV ad campaign. Pre-ordered so heavily two of the largest game retailers have stopped taking orders for fear of not being able to deliver enough units. Nope, no DS buildup happening that I can discern.

Seriously, the real impact of the DS will come with the word of mouth from a large number of people getting hands-on experience. It's hard to properly appreciate the product without that. As it stands, it appears Nintendo will quickly sell every unit they can ship this year. The real challenge won't be in launching big but in sustaining the momentum.

The GameCube's problems are quite simple. If you don't regard Nintendo's franchises as worth the purchase of a console then many will simply give the GameCube a miss. Without those Nintendo exclusives the platform really has no justification. That isn't to say the person who owns a GC and no other system is completely out of luck beyond Nintendo franchises but pretty much all of the third party GC titles worth mentioning are already multiplatform or headed that way.

This puts a lot of weight on those franchises and the occasional genuinely new item like Donkey Conga but Nintendo faces the ongoing battle of perception. No matter how many late teen and adult Nintendo players object, there is the persistent punishment for doing so well in the 12 and under market. Too many consumers are obsessed with how they think their product choices will be viewed by others, so a 16-year-old desparately hoping to to impress girls so badly he puts up a facade of maturity that means abandoning a perfectly good brand because it was part of the childhood he is now leaving behind.

I suspect another blessing/curse from Nintendo's past in Japan is turning up in the US today. N64 hardware sales in Japan after the launch were always low at best. In spite of this a major Nintendo franchise like StarFox still did a huge business. It became clear that a large number of gamers were buying used hardware to play a game purchase new at retail and selling off both when they were done with the gme, then repeating the process when something like Zelda showed up. This was great for Nintendo franchises but awful for third party publishers. Nintendo could just as easily have sold N64s with no cartridge slot and the game permanently embedded inside and still have made good money but lost out on the lucrative third party publishing royalties.

I suspect this is now happening with the GameCube. Used units can be had for as little as $30 after the resale value. For a person who really likes a handful of Nintendo franchises but doesn't think it worthwhile otherwise to own a GameCube the same approach as those Japanese N64 gamers may be practical. If the game is sold along with the GC the player should come close to breaking even and only paying for the game but not the hardware.

[Final Starman]

I think it also has something to do with the more mainstream, "mature" appeal that is being projected to most people that makes people pass by Nintendo more and more. But if Nintendo can make more great games like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door then they'll always have me coming back to them for more.

[JohnHam]

The Gamecube (which I don't even own)

Hi. You're part of the problem.

-Josh

I'm not made of money, man!

:lol:

[Moxio]

I'd like to see the DS become more successful than the PSP because of the fact that Sony has had them under their foot for a while now.

[2poor]

down with sony!

Seriously, what are you doing?

nothing really
:rofl:

[David85]

You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...


All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.

[Sartori]

How is "Touch" the Magic "really" the only game to use the touch screen..?

[batman2million]

i dunno y gamecube is over looked either. If i look at the most wanted charts...Zelda is beating Halo 2! i mean..we dunno nothing bout the zelda game n its on top of Halo2.

[Ruined]

Ninendo is an AAA company at the last place in this generation. For whatever reason, be it marketing or late release, they fell behind on the console front.

This is why as a pretty serious gamer (have ~150 xbox games and ~75 ps2 games), I "overlooked" Gamecube this generation:

#1 - Controller too small, unintuitive button placement
Seriously, who thought up the button design? It might be okay for platformers, but for fighting games, sports games, or anything that needs more than 2 face buttons of equal importance its a mess. The dpad stinks also.

#2 - Poor third party support
After what happened to the N64, I was a bit cautious that the same might happen with Gamecube, and it did. Overwhelming lack of 3rd party games.

#3 - Technologically crippled
While being only second to the XBOX graphically, it lacks three key features; no digital output for 5.1 or 4.0 surround, no DVD support, no hard drive support.

#4 - Nintendo disregarded online play
I don't know about you but I love playing online. And when Nintendo said "console gamers aren't ready for online play," I said Nintendo has its head up its you-lnow-what.

#5 - Nintendo franchises are starting to get old
With a few exceptions, Nintendo continues to recycle the same old franchise characters and the same old gameplay packaged in new and shinier world. I prefer the more original games on XBOX & PS2.

#6 - Not enough game variety
As a result of #2 and #5, Nintendo has a lot of unique and platformer games, but is severely lacking in certain genres, like fighting, sports, and racing.

[basketkase543]

I think it also has something to do with the more mainstream, "mature" appeal that is being projected to most people that makes people pass by Nintendo more and more. But if Nintendo can make more great games like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door then they'll always have me coming back to them for more.

Final Starman, you have an incredible signature. That elephant is so well animated. Did you get it yourself from metal slug?

[David85]

How is "Touch" the Magic "really" the only game to use the touch screen..?

That game is the only one that touching the screen is needed. Mario Kart, Mario 64 and many other just use it as a map, Harvest Moon uses it to see what you have with you, but that's not going to change the way we game. The Sonic game is lame, run your fingure across it to make him move, just use the damn D-Pad.

Touch the Magic is the only one right now, name some others that will come out in the next two-three months that need to use the touch pad?

[JohnHam]

How is "Touch" the Magic "really" the only game to use the touch screen..?

That game is the only one that touching the screen is needed. Mario Kart, Mario 64 and many other just use it as a map, Harvest Moon uses it to see what you have with you, but that's not going to change the way we game. The Sonic game is lame, run your fingure across it to make him move, just use the damn D-Pad.

Touch the Magic is the only one right now, name some others that will come out in the next two-three months that need to use the touch pad?

WarioWare DS is supposed to be all touch-manipulated.

[Sartori]

And.. what about Prime Hunters? Or various other ideas imposed where you use the touch to make certain patterns, ala black and white, but not quite to do things?

[WildWop]

All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.

Making more "mature" games would be pandering, not innovating. It's part of the reason I'm not as hyped for the next Zelda game. It feels too much like they compromised what they wanted to do with the game because a bunch of 13 year olds and adults-who-fear-kiddy-stuff bitched until their keyboards were awash in the blood of their fingertips. I personally would have preferred they just altered the animation style to match Link's age (like a Record of Lodoss War style, for instance).

But I digress.

I'll give you an example of why things don't need to be "mature" to be completely enjoyable. Pixar. If you've seen any of their movies, you've seen the brilliant melding of something that connects with people of many different age groups while remaining "family oriented," or for TEH KIDDIZ as some may say.

That's the type of balance that Nintendo is trying to find these days, with varying success. They largely fall short because they are too attached to their current set of mascots, but that doesn't take away from the fact that their games are still among the most fun out there. I own all three consoles, and the most fun I've had has been on the goofy looking purple box with the handle on it.

Oh, and the Eyetoy is crap. It's like those shitty games you see at mall kiosks that allow you to "play" tennis with some cheap plastic racket. The only difference is the Eyetoy has a marketing budget and a distribution deal. This is hardly a generation of innovation, it's more of an in-between, just as the SNES was great but really in between two leaps in design.

[AdamInPlaidum]

You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...


All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.

You very obviously are making quite a few assumptions without any information. While Feel the Magic is the only launch titlle designed to be played with nothing but the stylus, Mr. Driller can be played with only the touch screen, and Tiger Woods, Madden, and Spider-Man 2 have several extras using it.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/563/563218p1.html
There. I looked it up for you. Read, ass.

Onto Wind Waker...to say its like every other adventure game out there is a straight up insult. Without be too fanboy-ish I think I can safely say that Zelda is the standard that all adventure games are measured by, cel-shaded or no. Jak and Ratchet are in their 3rd installments. Even Metal Gear Solid is just now hitting its 3rd game. Zelda is onto adventure number 9 with LoZ 2005 (counting Ages/Seasons as one adventure). If Jak 8 is as good for its time as Wind Waker is for the current, I would be very surprised.

I didn't say Donkey Konga was new, I said it was fairly new for America. And then you have apparently taken something I said, and said the same thing in response. Nintendo doesn't lack game innovation, just character innovation.

[Plumberboy]

While Nintendo is still the premier developer in this industry, IMHO, I concede their last few efforts have been lacking. The Wind Waker suffered from tired gameplay mechaics, Donkey Konga is not exactly revolutionary, Pikmin 2 is closer to Pikmin 1.5 and more of an expansion rather than a true sequel, and while it hasn't been released yet, Metroid Prime Echoes Dark vs. Light world already has me experiencing deja vu. Fortunately for Nintendo fans, this does not appear to be unique to just Nintendo. With a few exceptions, the entire industry is suffering from this syndrome at the moment. Neither San Andreas or Halo 2 are offering anything truly new or unique based on what I have read thus far (not to say it's not in there).

I have also noticed several CAG's referencing IGN Cube's / N-Sider's latest editorial, "Playing It Safe." It is true we have seen Mario, Donkey Kong, and Fox tied into genres that could have been used to expand the Nintendo Universe. However, leveraging these characters is not the issue. Allowing premier second party developers to remake four year old PSOne games (then ending the relationship) is the issue. Allowing the development studio that carried the N64 through its final days to be swallowed by the competition is the issue. Neglecting online play, the true revolution for this generation of console, and actually marketing GBA to GCN connectivity as a legitimate alternative is the issue. Ignoring the changing demographics of the industry is the issue.

I'm worried these missteps by Nintendo will continue. It didn't take SONY long after Nintendo released the N64 to figure out 3D gameplay worked better with analog control. Once the N64 was released, SONY rushed that abomination of a controller to market and even stuck with it for the PS2. However, now that Nintendo has a handheld capable of displaying true 3D, we are without analog control. I hope I am proved wrong, but I fear the touch screen is not the answer.

History has also shown market segmentation can lead to disaster. Why confuse the average consumer with the DS and the GameBoy? No one seriously sees the DS as anything but the successor to the GameBoy. So why drop the GameBoy brand name from the product? One could argue the GameBoy brand is now more recognizable than Nintendo itself.

Finally, with all the hype around DS's wireless connectivity, it is shameful no launch game is expected to make use of this functionality.

With all that said, my platform of choice still carries the Nintendo name. I have enjoyed Halo on my Xbox, and have even pre-ordered Halo 2. Unfortunately, I have found little else that interests me there. The PS2, again IMHO, is the worst console of this generation. The console king, GTA, is mediocre at best. All of the gameplay staples (control, graphics, and audio) have been poorly implemented. Unfortunately, as the average gamer now pushes 30 years-of-age, this is where the audience has gone. If Nintendo expects to remain competitive they must at least create an environment that is conducive to these genres even if they do not wish to develop these genres themselves.

[zionoverfire]

While Nintendo is still the... etc

wow you'd think for your second post you wouldn't try and push yourself :D

[AdamInPlaidum]

While Nintendo is still the premier developer in this industry, IMHO, I concede their last few efforts have been lacking. The Wind Waker suffered from tired gameplay mechaics, Donkey Konga is not exactly revolutionary, Pikmin 2 is closer to Pikmin 1.5 and more of an expansion rather than a true sequel, and while it hasn't been released yet, Metroid Prime Echoes Dark vs. Light world already has me experiencing deja vu. Fortunately for Nintendo fans, this does not appear to be unique to just Nintendo. With a few exceptions, the entire industry is suffering from this syndrome at the moment. Neither San Andreas or Halo 2 are offering anything truly new or unique based on what I have read thus far (not to say it's not in there).

I have also noticed several CAG's referencing IGN Cube's / N-Sider's latest editorial, "Playing It Safe." It is true we have seen Mario, Donkey Kong, and Fox tied into genres that could have been used to expand the Nintendo Universe. However, leveraging these characters is not the issue. Allowing premier second party developers to remake four year old PSOne games (then ending the relationship) is the issue. Allowing the development studio that carried the N64 through its final days to be swallowed by the competition is the issue. Neglecting online play, the true revolution for this generation of console, and actually marketing GBA to GCN connectivity as a legitimate alternative is the issue. Ignoring the changing demographics of the industry is the issue.

I'm worried these missteps by Nintendo will continue. It didn't take SONY long after Nintendo released the N64 to figure out 3D gameplay worked better with analog control. Once the N64 was released, SONY rushed that abomination of a controller to market and even stuck with it for the PS2. However, now that Nintendo has a handheld capable of displaying true 3D, we are without analog control. I hope I am proved wrong, but I fear the touch screen is not the answer.

History has also shown market segmentation can lead to disaster. Why confuse the average consumer with the DS and the GameBoy. No one seriously sees the DS as anything but the successor to the GameBoy. So why drop the GameBoy brand name from the product. One could argue the GameBoy brand is now more recognizable than Nintendo itself.

Finally, with all the hype around DS's wireless connectivity, it is shameful no launch game is expected to make use of this functionality.

With all that said, my platform of choice still carries the Nintendo name. I have enjoyed Halo on my Xbox, and have even pre-ordered Halo 2. However I have found little else that interests me there. The PS2, again IMHO, is the worst console of this generation. The console king, GTA, is mediocre at best. All of the gameplay staples (control, graphics, and audio) have been poorly implemented. Unfortunately, as the average gamer now pushes 30 years-of-age, this is where the audience has gone. If Nintendo expects to remain competitive they must at least create an environment that is conducive to these genres even if they do not wish to develop these genres themselves.

That is a really, really good second (maybe first) post. Way to go.

[Plumberboy]

As Nintendo would say, it's about quality, not quantity.

[zionoverfire]

As Nintendo would say, it's about quality, not quantity.

I think you've got that backwards if your refering to your posts.

[AdamInPlaidum]

All I know is, my faith in Nintendo is currently banking on whether Animal Crossing DS is online or not. Please Nintendo, PLEASE!

[Sheik Rattle Enroll]

I think Nintendo's big problem is they have a serious lack of good game designers and rely on Miyamoto for everything, but he's being spread thinner and thinner.

[Plumberboy]

I think Nintendo's big problem is they have a serious lack of good game designers and rely on Miyamoto for everything, but he's being spread thinner and thinner.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. While no company appears to be as reliant on one individual as Nintendo is Shigeru Miyamoto, I believe Nintendo has among the best designers/developers in the world. As third party support diminishes on the GCN and Nintendo ramps up development for the DS, I would assume the Revolution as well, their staff is certainly being spread thinner and thinner.

[David85]

So they are making regular games that can be played on any system and just adding a touch screen for the DS. That is not innovating, thats just porting, so still Feel the Magic is the only one.

When I say try more "mature" things I mean make more shooters like MP, add some twists and what not. Stop making every game cute. Nintendo has the DS game "Another" thats good, a different type of game for them and the only DS game they are making that is not a huge famous franchise in it's name.

Is it pandering to give gamers what they want? No, Nintendo can still make the old famous games, but less and less are going to buy them because they never take risks in a game. The waterpack in Mario Sunshine was not a risk, it was lame and took away from the most important part of Mario, the jumping.

[WildWop]

pan·der
Definition: To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others

If the style they intend for their characters does not match a "mature" vision, then yes, it would be pandering. I'll draw on Pixar again. Would The Incredibles have had the same charm if it was dark, brooding, and violent? No.

Also, if you think any other companies are taking risks with their million-seller franchises, you're deluded. Since the release of the first R&C, or Jak, or Splinter Cell, what have they done other than add little tweaks here and there? Add a goatee to Jak? Sony and Microsoft are in a process of establishing franchises. The Playstation was not strong in franchises, so this gen is the first time Sony has really pushed a few good titles out there that drive sequels. Microsoft has Halo, and to a lesser extent Blinx, which we will be sure to see many, many times over the next generation.

Don't fault Nintendo for being around longer.

[David85]

I'm not faulting because Nintendo has been around longer. I'm complaining that they never try something new. I'm not going "Nintendo needs to make Mario mature", Nintendo needs to improve Mario. try new things. The water pack was lame and added nothing to the gameplay, just too the jumping away.

Nintendo does need to "pander", every company does a little otherwise they will fail. Nintendo can be "mature", and innovating without making fun of the Nintendo fanboys and girls. How hard would it be for Nintendo to come out and support online gaming? If they just supported it, not even do it themselves, they would get a lot of third party support back, they don't want to take risks like the old Nintendo would and thats why they are no longer on top.

[Storamin]

http://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gif http://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/hamu.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/gerbil.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/hamu.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/hamu.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/hamu.gif http://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/hamu.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/gerbil.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gifhttp://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/anin.gif http://www.hampsterdance2.com/gif/gerbil.gif}

Hamsters!

[sisco1986]

In my eyes Nintendo lost its steam after the SNES. The Playstation had an un-godly amount of games and so many great games on top of that. On the other hand N64 AAA titles could fit on just one bookshelf.

It's the same cycle this generation, Sony with so many great games, and Nintendo with just a handful of AAA titles. Nintendo has very few 3rd party developers and that hurts the GCN. Gaming is very mainstream now, and Nintendo doesn't fit the mold Sony laid out. I've always admired Nintendo for being the odd ball, but there are so many Casual gamers out there now, and being different my put some people off. That hurt the Nintendo last generation and it's seeping over into this generation. There’s countless theory's why Nintendo is lagging behind, this is just one.

Nintendo needs to bring more games to the console, and just not any games; innovative games. There where tons of awesome innovative games this generation on the GameCube, but most went under the radar of mainstream gamers, and that’s where the money is at. People have to remember Nintendo is a business, so more people means more money, and along with that money means more developers which equals more games and in the end we the gamers win. Nintendo needs to get there sh!t together, and start whoring out there system/games (advertising!) and start making heads turn with more innovative games, not just relying on flagship titles.

Gamers are going to be fed up with the same old pretty yet shallow games mainstream developers seem to be jamming down people throats this generation. Developers need to start growing small balls and start showing why people fell in love with gaming in the first place. Just my two cent's, you can keep the change.

[Zenithian Legend]

I think it's the fact that they used the little discs instead of standard dvds...

That's part of it, despite Nintendo's theory "we're making a machine to play games" the DVD capabilities are a nice plus with the Xbox and PS2. Hopefully Nintendo's next system will use DVDs and include the DVD player.


The Gamecube (which I don't even own)

Hi. You're part of the problem.

-Josh

I'm not made of money, man!

:lol:

Obviously not, you're made of HAM! mmm ham! (Ya that's a Darvin Hamm reference)


Back to the Nintendo, I've always been the type to buy a Nintendo product, but I must admit, I didn't rush out and buy the Gamecube, in fact I didn't get mine until last November, so roughly a year ago. There's some great GC games, but there are some areas Nintendo is severly lacking in. They need some more solid 3rd party games, and a greater focus on online play would open up the market too.
The release titles for the GC were quite sub-par especially in comparison to the PS and Xbox. Come on Nintendo, I know it was a good joke and all, but why open with a Luigi game instead of a Mario game? That's just blasphamy. Plus the Mario game we got, really wasn't too advanced from Mario 64. Don't get me wrong, Mario 64 was a great game, a really great game, but that was also on the last system, new system, time to step it up.
It just really seems like Nintendo has been doing things kind of half-assed and could've put forth a lot more effort. They've got a chance to make-up some serious profit coming up though. With the next Zelda, Star Fox and Metroid games on the horizon, as well as a handful of other decent games. It does really hurt that RE4 isn't an exclusive anymore, and that they foolishly lost Rare, because as it was said before in this thread, Rare really carried the N64.

[hutno]

I think it's the fact that they used the little discs instead of standard dvds...

That's part of it, despite Nintendo's theory "we're making a machine to play games" the DVD capabilities are a nice plus with the Xbox and PS2. Hopefully Nintendo's next system will use DVDs and include the DVD player.


The Gamecube (which I don't even own)

Hi. You're part of the problem.

-Josh

I'm not made of money, man!

:lol:

Obviously not, you're made of HAM! mmm ham! (Ya that's a Darvin Hamm reference)


Back to the Nintendo, I've always been the type to buy a Nintendo product, but I must admit, I didn't rush out and buy the Gamecube, in fact I didn't get mine until last November, so roughly a year ago. There's some great GC games, but there are some areas Nintendo is severly lacking in. They need some more solid 3rd party games, and a greater focus on online play would open up the market too.
The release titles for the GC were quite sub-par especially in comparison to the PS and Xbox. Come on Nintendo, I know it was a good joke and all, but why open with a Luigi game instead of a Mario game? That's just blasphamy. Plus the Mario game we got, really wasn't too advanced from Mario 64. Don't get me wrong, Mario 64 was a great game, a really great game, but that was also on the last system, new system, time to step it up.
It just really seems like Nintendo has been doing things kind of half-assed and could've put forth a lot more effort. They've got a chance to make-up some serious profit coming up though. With the next Zelda, Star Fox and Metroid games on the horizon, as well as a handful of other decent games. It does really hurt that RE4 isn't an exclusive anymore, and that they foolishly lost Rare, because as it was said before in this thread, Rare really carried the N64.

Its to bad rare hasnt carried anything since the N64

[Levizk]

Nintendo insists on using strange formats for their games to try and curb piracy, and the irony is that has hurt them more than piracy ever would have. In my mind the biggest reason Nintendo is so far behind and probably will never regain the top is Final Fantasy 7. That game gave Sony the premiere RPG console and they never let up after that. You figure if Nintendo just went to CD instead of staying with the lesser pirated cartridge they would most likely still have the Dragon Quest series, the Final Fantasy series, the Xenosaga series, Atlus would more than likely still develop for them exclusively, and even the Metal Gear series would most likely appear on the Nintendo first before it appeared on other consoles.

[David85]

If Nintendo went to CDs, Sony would have made them the CD things so there would be no problem there anyways.

[willardhaven]

Despite all their mistakes, I will continue to support Nintendo until the end, because they keep making games that captivate me.

The second coming of the SNES is bound to happen eventually...

[Zenithian Legend]

If Microsoft bought out square-enix that would probably kill sony... er at least in the console wars

[Plumberboy]

If Microsoft bought out square-enix that would probably kill sony... er at least in the console wars

Even with the more expensive cartridge format the Nintendo 64 still seemed to compete with the PlayStation. It wasn't until the Square / FFVII deal that we really saw a clear turning point in the 32/64-bit console wars. Yet, I doubt Microsoft buying Square-Enix today would have the same effect it had when Square jumped to PlayStation. Although they are still a popular genre, RPGs don't seem to carry the same weight as they once did. Maybe I am mistaking, but I would guess the body count isn't high enough in a typical RPG for the casual gamer.

[Zenithian Legend]

You can not deny it would do great damage to Sony's sales to lose Square, I'd be willing to wager it would drop the PS down to third.

[Venkman]

As a true video game fan- I believe everyone here can honestly say Nintendo makes awesome games. But they do rely on their established characters to sell whatever system they are making.

The numbers speak for themselves. Nintendo is in 3rd- the system numbers may be close to that of Xbox but 3rd party games simply don't sell well on Nintendo systems.

But the previos poster has a point. Nintendo needs some fresh franchises- Microsoft took Halo and made it a massive, massive success.


And as much as I downtalked Nintendo, I believe the DS will be superior. they recognize that gamers on the go need a different type of system- not a handheld PS2. I want to play certain types of games on the move.

Although I must question the ports of Mario 64 and Mario Kart to the DS. Doesn't seem to make sense given tghe control scheme.

[hutno]

Why would square enix ever sign a contract and be bound to one system. It would would be enormously damaging to square enix

[Mookyjooky]

As Nintendo would say, it's about quality, not quantity.

I think you've got that backwards if your refering to your posts.

Not really....he's stated many times about Nintendo not being like everyone else and releasing a shitty title and following it up with shitty title after title. IE: GTA. I mean, could this game be any worse?

Audio : Good voice acting, shitty quality. Shitty sound FX
Graphics : Looks like Dreamcast to me. Blurry and textures bleed all over the fucking place.
Playability : Well after the 800th "Pick up a t-shirt at the mall" mission, the game sucks...I play just to run around and see how high my cop meter can go up and how long I can last....thats about it, and that doesnt make a good game.

GTA can hold a candle to fucking Metroid Prime or Zelda....(Cel Shaded or not) And thats the PS2's best game....oya and Xbox and PC get a version of it (Graphics vastly improved and all the bugs worked out) a few months later....The gamecube is failing for one major reason...the 13 year old boy.

The 13 year old boy just wants to run around and kill things. He thinks blood and gore is cool as hell. He's getting games he's not supposed to have and thats really cool. He's dumb as a fucking rock cause the school system sucks and he cant play hard games. The 13 year old boy is EVIL.....and he's ruining the industry.

[Mookyjooky]

Why would square enix ever sign a contract and be bound to one system. It would would be enormously damaging to square enix

EA has the best chance for a system.

[Mookyjooky]

Nintendo insists on using strange formats for their games to try and curb piracy, and the irony is that has hurt them more than piracy ever would have. In my mind the biggest reason Nintendo is so far behind and probably will never regain the top is Final Fantasy 7. That game gave Sony the premiere RPG console and they never let up after that. You figure if Nintendo just went to CD instead of staying with the lesser pirated cartridge they would most likely still have the Dragon Quest series, the Final Fantasy series, the Xenosaga series, Atlus would more than likely still develop for them exclusively, and even the Metal Gear series would most likely appear on the Nintendo first before it appeared on other consoles.

And the sad thing is, is that Nintendo had FF7 in their grasp.

http://www.nintendoland.com/graphics/screens/FF7-2.gif

http://www.nintendoland.com/graphics/screens/FF7-3.gif

http://www.nintendoland.com/graphics/screens/FF7.gif