CAGcast #222: The Perfect Stranger

[CheapyD]

15060[/IMG-L]Sony gets dominated in November, IGN and GameStop join forces, and Wombat craves chocolate covered pork rinds. Tune in for the latest gaming and shopping news, your CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382) and Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/cheapyd) questions and so much more!

131
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Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):
Intro - Theme from Fist

notes coming soon!

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Outro: Pacman mini carcade

[DarkZion]

Awesome, just what I needed in my time of boredom.

[Thomas96]

right on time!

[DougCL]

a new cagcast! lets get creepy!

[Darknyss]

Something's wrong with your direct download link, Cheapy.

[hdcase]

I think you guys were unnecessarily harsh on Harm's Way. Also you got a few facts wrong. It's not really a car combat game; it's more like a co-op game where one person on the team drives and tries to get in first while the other person on the team controls turrets along the race track and tries to take out the other players. It's really best played with a friend online against computer opponents.

Also it's a VERY easy 200/200 for you gamerscore whores out there. You can get the full points after a handful of games online with a friend.

I think you guys should give it another shot. Crash Course is a well made game but personally I think Harm's Way is much more fun and unique.

Other than that I love your show, keep up the good work.

[SuxoR]

Breads done

[Xo ColdKilla oX]

i really appreciate the work you guys put in. Starting from thursday night, i always check the twitter feed to see if a cagcast is coming. Keep up the good work!

[ocelot24]

There is a problem with the download link....when i click the link it takes me to a page of text

[ShockandAww]

Thanks Wombat for mentioning that there's going to be some good stuff coming up in 2011 for the PS3. Here is a list of exclusives for PS3 in 2011:

Little Big Planet 2
Killzone 3
Infamous 2
The Last Guardian
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Twisted Metal
Resistance 3

Oh yeah and some game called Uncharted 3.

At least 3 of those exclusives could easily be competing for GOTY in 2011.

Now here is a list of exclusives for Xbox in 2011: Gears 3

So yes SONY got "dominated" by soccer moms throughout the land this holiday season. Next year though it will be a different story. A story involving real gamers.

[zebwinz]

Hey Wombat, just remember when you are talking about Dance Central sales that the NPD numbers are US only, while the 2.5 million Kinect accessory sales is the worldwide sales number. Great show as always, and as always, Wombat is wrong about something.

[Wombat]

I think the download problem is an Internet Exporer issue, try using another browser. I asked Cheapy to fix it but he said "no" and went back to eating gold eggs.

[ocelot24]

I think the download problem is an Internet Exporer issue, try using another browser. I asked Cheapy to fix it but he said "no" and went back to eating gold eggs.

I does not work with either safari or firefox

[hdcase]

Download worked fine for me.

My favorite part of the podcast was when Cheapy said "?�Qx&@7��x��~�׾���������w y[~�?�s���YVL�t��L��V�H���"u@E ���Q��+ ��Wt����K�C/��rK��4Y��*�gx'��.�b֞�Տ�.��m�����5����25�M~S/�����U�M���O�����G|9�o�?�o����
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Β�ۦ�%J��`��;{4S�;��R�#7S�pƴڂ�y$���a����lm����� ��/��������+�wB+sG��w�#���X�?����8~�{�u�t���p�6z5�o o�;ܤjK��Y6����K��)薫�����t���doR�����b_�}��^��CԽ� �z/���d����z����0��A��f�_D������nk��~&�u���G�@YH�n�?m[���)��Y���C�r��/Ͽ
~�k���z_�~�����~���B�u��!��>��kj/�#��&�ߦ�)����g���/��N�]���~�����*.��I������_�/����3�o��n�w�E�~03��;��o���i�L:." It was hilarious!

[djsmf435]

I feel like I need Peter to send me chocolate covered anything :)

[dubbfoolio]

okay I chipped in finally. cause cheapy demanded it.

[Wolfkin]

I gotta slow down. i read that too fast and thought CAG and GameScoop joined forces. I know a lot of you guys aren't fans of the IGN podcasts but for me that would have been an awesome awesome thing.

[figcoinc]

World of Warcraft Cattackalysm. *facepalm*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF6fcInDtWU&feature=player_embedded

[The Great BM]

In regards to your comments about the potential disparity between Kinect hardware and software sales, I think there may be a segment of the population that have bought just the hardware for hacking purposes. It may not be a ton of people, but I've seen enough hacks (http://www.joystiq.com/tag/kinect-hacks/) to consider it a possibility.

[d-man777]

Love the 'cast, guys. One chocolate treasure you missed--chocolate-covered bacon. My daughter and her aunt made this for me for father's day--pretty tasty. However, it had to be eaten in extreme moderation.

[Stryffe2004]

I think you all are dead on about Namco and its lack of promotion. Enslaved and Maijin are both solid games that got little or no promotion. Both had demos that helped convince me to buy them, but even the demos got little or no promotion.

I'm not sure pre-released games will solve the problem, but it defintely can't hurt. I think Dead Rising Case Zero is a good start. Have a prequel that ties right in to the final game and gives you some sort of bonus.

[meager]

I can't believe any of you didn't bitch about the price of the Mario All Star collection. Isn't that usually Wombat's role? 30 bucks for 4 games that are already available on the Virtual Console for a total of 20 bucks. Are bonus features really a bonus if you're paying for them? I presume you all let this go because it's on the Wii so you don't care.

Did you guys play the Iron Man table on Pinball FX? All Iron Man ever talks about is his stock and getting his drink on.

Oh, and Kratos is a much better fit in Mortal Kombat than he was in Hot Shots Golf. (Was he in Soul Calibur? I thought that the Tekken guy was the only Sony exclusive to that series.) Will this Mortal Kombat be on the Wii so we can get Link disembowling people?

[shipwreck]

Meager, Kratos was in the latest PSP version of Soul Calibur.

[zoward]

Just chipped in $10 for Child's Play. Cheapy, I find it interesting that you were more compelling in asking for money for Child's Play than you usually are when you're plugging business for CAG itself (maybe that's why I keep fogetting to use Amazon affiliate links when I buy games - sorry man!). Oh well, hope to hear you next week...

[InvaderZim]

Thanks Wombat for mentioning that there's going to be some good stuff coming up in 2011 for the PS3. Here is a list of exclusives for PS3 in 2011:

Little Big Planet 2
Killzone 3
Infamous 2
The Last Guardian
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Twisted Metal
Resistance 3

Oh yeah and some game called Uncharted 3.

At least 3 of those exclusives could easily be competing for GOTY in 2011.

Now here is a list of exclusives for Xbox in 2011: Gears 3

So yes SONY got "dominated" by soccer moms throughout the land this holiday season. Next year though it will be a different story. A story involving real gamers.

With the exception of Little Big Planet 2... not really impressed with what the old PS3 is going to offer in 2011. But, it's still a pretty good Blu-Ray player.

[meager]

Meager, Kratos was in the latest PSP version of Soul Calibur.

Ooooh, that's right! I forgot my Sony Paperweight has the capacity to play games!

[grognard66]

Great podcast, as usual. I love it when Wombat tries to sound so convincing when he's completely wrong (Dance Central attach rates, NPD vs. world-wide Kinect sales).

[GOTA]

I really enjoyed the discussion on the marketing of new games. The real issue though is something that Wombat touched on. The budgets for many of these new IPs are just way too high. Concepts and execution are pushed aside in favor of graphics and graphics equals expense.

Fans of Enslaved or Majin don't seem to talk about the look of these games as much as the stories and game play. Reducing the graphics to an average level would give them enough margin to drop the price to the a point where they could build an audience. That audience is going to carry forward to the sequel which means it can be given a larger budget and everyone can talk about what a huge leap forward this already good game too. We've seen that model with the Assassin's Creed series and with Mass Effect. It does work.

[lokizz]

geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles. and yeah some of the ps3 sales are too just not as many.

as far as wii sales go theres alot of fucking retards out there. and yeah im sure people are now picking up consoles because of kinect and move but how many would be interesting to know.

[Wombat]

Great podcast, as usual. I love it when Wombat tries to sound so convincing when he's completely wrong (Dance Central attach rates, NPD vs. world-wide Kinect sales).

My point still holds, as I doubt worldwide sales of an American music game topped 2million. So I am not completely wrong. Also, you smell.

[RichMeisterMan]

About your guys' battlefield talk...

I think EA/DICE is doing a great job at keeping Bad Company 2 relevant. They release the new VIP map pack which was easily the best pack to date by giving us 2 brand new maps and 2 fan favorites from the 1st game. They do this to restimulate the interest of people that already own BFBC2, this way they are ready to shell out the dough for Vietnam when it comes out.

Now they attach Vietnam to the original BFBC2 to essentially sell more of the base game; which I am sure is obvious to a lot of you, by advertising for Vietnam and people will make the jump to BFBC2 to play it.

If you haven't played Battle Field Bad Company 2 there is not a better time to start things up than right now. The game is cheap on PC and consoles, you get a wealth of maps, and a new expansion is right around the corner! The expansion is very fairly priced in my opinion too.

[apathylad]

I feel bad that Wombat can do a better Yogi Bear impression than Dan Aykroyd can.

Anyway, I feel that the reason a lot of games don't sell well are for marketing reasons. People like to point at Metacritic scores, but it's not like gamers are gonna buy every single game that gets a positive review.

Shipwreck was right about 2010 being the year the 360 had the better exclusives (or at least the better selling exclusives). That may have also been a factor of why the 360 sold more than the PS3.

Good show.

[jkanownik]

geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles. and yeah some of the ps3 sales are too just not as many.

Where do consoles go when they die? Think about that and come back. I'm too tired to continue the discussion at the moment. I can tell you that the end result is that you're wrong.

theres alot of Fucking retards out there

Tru dat.

im sure people are now picking up consoles because of kinect and move but how many would be interesting to know.


Pachter released the console bundle numbers. ~700K Kinect Bundles and ~150K Sony Move Bundles.

[SeanNOLA]

RE: Kinect Sales - it seems like a lot of people are buying Kinects for non-gaming purposes. My office bought 3 to use for gesture presentation and projector-control stuff. I doubt we'll be buying Dance Central any time soon. I agree with Wombat that the software sales are not going to match the hardware sales.

RE: EA and online games - from a profit standpoint, what EA is doing makes sense. "Is there really room for an online Dead Space/Bioshock?" There probably isn't, but an online component gives incentive for consumers to buy early, before the online component dries up. A lot of single-player-only titles, like Vanquish and Enslaved, end up selling poorly out of the gate, because consumers know that it will be the same game a few months from now when it's selling for $40. An FPS, however, will change dramatically - either the multiplayer arena has become a ghost town, or the day-one purchasers have gained a significant advantage, based on their months of experience.

Resident Evil 5 is a good example: If you bought it at launch, you might have been able to take advantage of online multiplayer, but if you waited for the price to drop to $20, you entered a ghost town. In the end, you're forced to ask yourself "is the online component worth that $40?" and if the answer is "yes," then you'll pay the $60 up front.

[Curufinwe]

Download worked fine for me.

My favorite part of the podcast was when Cheapy said "?�Qx&@7��x��~�׾���������w y[~�?�s���YVL�t��L��V�H���"u@E ���Q��+ ��Wt����K�C/��rK��4Y��*�gx'��.�b֞�Տ�.��m�����5����25�M~S/�����U�M���O�����G|9�o�?�o����
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I can't beleive Cheapy would tell such a racist joke, but it was pretty funny, Especially the part about the ~�k���z_�~�����~���B�u��!��>�.

[Curufinwe]

geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles.

If that was such a big factor then then the 360 wouldn't have the best attach rate out of all the consoles. A high attach rate means people buying new 360s are buying games with them. If people were just replacing dead 360s, they would not be buying games with them, so you would see a low attach rate.

The moron here is you.

[LiK]

I agree with Cheapy and Wombat. Shippy, get going and buy the 360 versions so we can play together!

[pvx22]

What was the name of that company that made the chocolate covered potato chips?

[hufferstl]

Wombat loves the phrase 'mindshare'.

[koheed]

Cheapy, did you have any of the Red Hot Better Made chips? Those chips, along with NES and Mt. Dew, helped to contribute to my mild childhood obesity.

[lokizz]

If that was such a big factor then then the 360 wouldn't have the best attach rate out of all the consoles. A high attach rate means people buying new 360s are buying games with them. If people were just replacing dead 360s, they would not be buying games with them, so you would see a low attach rate.

The moron here is you.

says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?

[Knoell]

says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?

Great argument.

Anyways about the 2.5 million kinect sales, if the pachter numbers are correct is there something to say about the console bundle sales that equal just 750K while kinect sales have reached 2.5 million all together?

It seems that more people are buying kinect when they already have a console. I thought that was interesting because unless those people buy kinect games, then microsoft doesn't really gain anything beyond the initial kinect profit.

At least with the bundle sales, they are gaining potential customers to open their entire library to.

[trip1eX]

Kinect is going to bomb. Wait until next summer.

And it will finally look like the junk that it is.

Wait untli Kinects start crapping out too. I'm not assigning a long lifespan to those moving cameras. It feels like a junk-a-thon.

Don't shoot the messenger now. I'm just chanelling this.

The 360 isn't selling better because of Kinect either. Kinect is not moving 360s. It's not bringing many new consumers into the fold. The November boost is similar to the boost the 360 recieved the previous months since its revision.

It's the revision that is moving 360s further spurred along by Halo and then CoD:BO which is not quite as bad as CDs:BO if you can decode that last acronym. ;)

[Knoell]

They (assuming pachters numbers are correct) sold 750K Xbox 360 Console Kinect bundles last month, I think that is a clear indication the Kinect IS moving consoles....

Just because it isn't your type of game doesn't mean it can't be popular. I have a Wii and hardly ever play it, I found out motion control, and those type games are not for me, but it is clearly popular and sells very well.

[PacManster17]

Listening. Liked the online multiplayer discussion. It doesn't need to be tacked on to every game!

[Dr Mario Kart]

On the subject of development costs talk:

We are raising dev costs 2-3x+ every hardware cycle, while the userbase grows at a much slower (non-exponential) rate. This is clearly unsustainable. Right now the industry is running from math. Even with the additional monies currently being extracted from consumers per game, the vast majority of games are losing a larger and larger amount of money. 2008 was the highest year for revenue on record in the industry, and 2009 was the second highest. Despite this, companies are/were going under left and right and others were deep into the red.

There are only two solutions:
1) lower costs, by going small/low power, possibly digital.
2) dramatically grow the gaming population until these obscene costs can be justified.
__________
On attach rates:
I've come to believe that attach rates are relatively unimportant (at least in the current generation).

If you take the lifetime hardware sold (from NPD) and use that to calculate weeks ownership (depending on which month it was sold), and take lifetime software sales numbers (whenever they happen to be available), you find that console owners buy the same number of games per unit time in the long term.

For example, as of Sept 09 NPD:

TOTAL hardware ownership in weeks
X360: 1.58 billion
Wii: 1.54 billion
PS3: 0.64 billion

http://i38.tinypic.com/2lkxpc7.png

X360: 0.091 games per week
Wii: 0.091 games per week
PS3: 0.092 games per week

In the short term, this trend is distorted slightly by events like new system launches, slim redesigns/price drops, etc.
__________
On Kinect/Move sales and implications:

How many Kinects/Moves are sold is irrelevant because they wont get significant support - This is how non-standard peripherals work. There are nearly the same amount of Wii Balance Boards sold as there are PS3s, but you dont see support for it. Similar situation with Motion+.

[turkeycat79]

Can't wait to listen!!!

side note: the download link only worked with firefox for me. With IE it downloaded a bad jpeg file for unknown reason???

[indieinsd]

With the exception of Little Big Planet 2... not really impressed with what the old PS3 is going to offer in 2011. But, it's still a pretty good Blu-Ray player.
The point is that the PS3 will be getting all the big games next year except project shit box games and Gears of War.

[Curufinwe]

says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?

I'm the guy who's much less ignorant than you. Try doing some research before you call the hosts of this podcast morons, and maybe you won't make a fool of yourself in the next CAGcast thread.

From the GAF NPD thread:

The 360 has a great tie ratio. A really great tie ratio. Better than the PS3 or the Wii. Tie ratio is the number of pieces of software sold for each piece of hardware, and the 360's are top shelf both month-to-month and lifetime. This means that if a higher percentage of 360 buyers are repeat owners, we'd either expect the tie ratio to be lower (because someone who buys a second 360 doesn't also rebuy their whole library) or we'd say that it is artificially low, and the 360's actual active owner : software tie ratio is enormous, dwarving everything else ever made by a significant amount.

It seems likely that 360 owners buy a lot of software and unlikely that that they buy a totally mindboggling amount of software, so we have to assume that the repeat buyers are about normal.

One of the reasons here is that most people who rebuy a console trade their old one or sell it and then the person that buys that buys software. So most of your repeat buyers were also driving used sales and thus driving the install base, even if you didn't know they were.

Now, I'm not equating the 360's failure rate to any other console. In fact, let's pretend we're not talking about the 360 at all. Let's talk about the PS2. And now let's pretend no one's PS2 ever broke. Ever. Right? Still, a lot of those people replaced their fat PS2s with slim PS2s (or bought a second one and kept both), right? Sounds fair.

But in spite of this, we don't think of the PS2 as not "earning" all its sales, or of having a lower "actual" ownership number than the sales represent or any other claim like that. We basically accept that whatever the percentage of people who own two or break one and buy a new one or are otherwise rebuyers or upgrade or look for new colours or buy holiday bundles for collectors sake or whatever, it's not something that we actually worry about. We count the sales as honest and act as though the install base is the install base.

[gokieks]

Cheapy: There actually is a demo to Auditorium, both as a flash game (http://www.playauditorium.com) and as an iOS game (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/auditorium/id333190756?mt=8) (free with paid DLC levels). I'm honestly quite surprised none of you knew of this game.

[shajek]

While reading this thread, I was listening to one of my kids play Crash Course. Based on his reactions, I say it's a game he loves to hate. I'm surprised he didn't bust a controller in two.

I chipped in $10, so I hope we hit your milestone, Cheapy. I want my podcast for next week. I hope at least one of you sees TRON. I would like a fully-formed opinion, not a brushoff like we've been getting.

Keep up the great work as always. A week without a CAGCast is just a week.

[lowgear26]

geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles. and yeah some of the ps3 sales are too just not as many.


If they were indeed replacing their BROKEN consoles then why buy another 360? I run 2 of my 360's as media extenders and they are both over 2 years old and are still going strong.

I think the RROD issue is not relevant here.......based on personal observations only

[eastx]

Thanks for remembering my Bomberman love! I really enjoyed the 'cast. BTW, there are only two Bomberman XBLA games. You guys might have mistaken the PSN title, Bomberman Ultra (a port of Bomberman Live) as an XBLA game.

If you played the old Live game a lot, Battlefest really does have lots of new stuff that makes it better. The stages, especially, are way better, and the new bombs and modes add a lot of variety and fun. Plus it's only $10, unlike most XBLA games these days.

[Thomas96]

I think that Sony just wants a piece of the market, I don't think they're really concerns about trying to dominate anything. (sales wise). Sony isn't going to out sell the 360, because at this point, its not a matter of quality, its not a matter of "what sony can do better?" its a matter of consumer choice.. for this gen people have chosen to purchase primarily on the 360.

One of the reason's that Xbox sold so good during November is due to two exclusives that they had on their system... Kinect and COD: Black Ops. (YES I KNOW BLOPS is Multiplatform) but that game is so popular for Xbox that its really more like an xbox exclusive more so than a multiplatform title.

[Wolfkin]

If they were indeed replacing their BROKEN consoles then why buy another 360? I run 2 of my 360's as media extenders and they are both over 2 years old and are still going strong.

I think the RROD issue is not relevant here.......based on personal observations onlyok i agree at this time the RROD has got to be a non-issue. there's no way it's still happening right?

but as to why you would rebuy a 360? are you kidding? we're on year 3? 4? how many games do you have? do you really want to buy them all over for the PS3 just because your 360 died? you want to start over with a new friends list? with your trophy count at zero and abandon your achievement level? Don't get me wrong I'm completely satisfied with my PS3. It's totally a great system and PSN is completely workable in spite of what the 360 fans will tell you but it's not so good that I would even suggest buying PS3 when your 360 dies. It's more than a console you lose. it's everything attached to it.

One of the major reason the 360 is on top is not because PSN is terrible and unusable. It WAS but not is perfectly fine. Unfortunately everyone and their friends are already on XBL so unless you can transplant everyone it ain't gonna happen.

[Wolfkin]

Everyone thinks the Kinect is going to be a success because it sold well. What about the Wii effect. The Wii when it was released brought new technology that did things no other console could do before it. The Wii was an entire console from a major company that introduced a brand new concept.

Compare this to Kinect. Sure the tech is stronger but it's not nearly as unexpected. The Wii cracked your brain with it's newness. Kinect is just EyeToy2099. How many people bought the Wii thinking that as soon as the launch period was over we'd get totally wicked awesome games that did creative and fun things with motion? How many people sold their Wii waiting? Why shouldn't I look at the Kinect and simply label it as the same phenom (huge advertising budget? Check. Appearance on Today show, Opera, and Ellen, and other talk shows noone cares about? Check. Commercials that showcase the device in a manner that none of us cares about? Check). A lot of people buy it thinking we'll get good games. But in a year if they aren't coming with extreme regularity (Wii had good games.. just pretty far apart) how many Kinect owners will get tired of sifting thru eyetoy clones and WiiSport wannabes and just end up selling the 'add-on'. People saw the wii and thought "Real lightsabre action". People see the Kinect and think "Real Minority Report Action". With headtracking we got some pretty cool effect, with Motion+ on top the Wii is pretty darn capable but I'm seeing less than 25 Motion+ games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wii_MotionPlus_games) which include at least 2 games I know aren't out. 4 sports games which are hardly where you go for innovation.

I'm not saying that here's clear proof that Kinect will fail. What I am saying is that we have absolutely zero reason to expect it to succeed. Nothing is happening here that didn't happen with the Wii, and Nintendo committed to the Wii much harder than Microsoft commits to the Kinect. If Kinect fails like HD-DVD you still have an awesome gaming console to fall back on. As far as the new market goes. They all have Wiis and I don't see Kinect as so attractive to draw them away. The closest thing really are the WiiDads that CheapyD outlined. Wanna be gamers who got the Wii wife-approved and think they can use Kinect to get a 360 wife-approved.

Will we consider the Kinect a huge success if it performs like the Wii? That is it sells like gangbusters and 90% of it's audience just plays kinectimals, and CheapyD puts his in the closet never to be heard from until Saint's Row 4.

[Cao Cao]

I think that Sony just wants a piece of the market, I don't think they're really concerns about trying to dominate anything. (sales wise). Sony isn't going to out sell the 360, because at this point, its not a matter of quality, its not a matter of "what sony can do better?" its a matter of consumer choice.. for this gen people have chosen to purchase primarily on the 360.

One of the reason's that Xbox sold so good during November is due to two exclusives that they had on their system... Kinect and COD: Black Ops. (YES I KNOW BLOPS is Multiplatform) but that game is so popular for Xbox that its really more like an xbox exclusive more so than a multiplatform title.

While anything Call of Duty would likely move some 360s, it is important to note that it sold better on PS3 than past installments have. The PS3 share for Modern Warfare 2's first month was around 30% (4.20m 360, 1.89m PS3). BlOps PS3 had a somewhat higher share of the first month sales at 38.75% (4.90m 360, 3.10m PS3). Unfortunately, this increased share did not appear to give PS3 hardware sales a significant boost.

Kinect, I won't argue with as a driver, as Pachter estimates (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/10/xbox-360-kinect-bundles-outsell-ps3-move-bundles-5-to-1-in-novem/) that about half of the 360 hardware sales were the Kinect bundle (~695k), while the PS3/Move bundle only made up a fifth of the PS3 hardware sales (~106k).

[Wolfkin]

One of the reason's that Xbox sold so good during November is due to two exclusives that they had on their system... Kinect and COD: Black Ops. (YES I KNOW BLOPS is Multiplatform) but that game is so popular for Xbox that its really more like an xbox exclusive more so than a multiplatform title.nope. don't buy it. You can only use the "It's practically exclusive" argument if say it performed better on the 360 like say Ghostbusters. It's perfectly adequate and popular on the PS3 as well. 360s sold because of COD:BO. Fine. That's believable. 360s sold because of some sort of perceived exclusivity that COD:BO isn't on the PS3? Nah.

[Curufinwe]

Two weeks in a row pronouncing Majin as may-jin? We're counting on you to teach us the correct pronunciation of Japanese words, Cheapy. :)

[sdp]

I like how cheapy acts like he has nothing to gain from following videogamedeals, 25 cents isn't much per follower to donate when you count each follower is likely to click on various of his referral amazon links which he gets a cut off. Plenty people donate a lot more for followers without having referral links in their tweets. I mean its a smart move, I just think its a bit hypocritical for cheapy to act like its all for charity and he has absolutely nothing to gain from it. Oh and Tai can't become president either cheapy, you were wrong with that as well; I'm sure your dreams of Tai becoming a President are now crushed as it was all you wished for him to achieve in your plan for world domination.

[theweirdn8]

lets hope this is worth the 97 minutes.

:D

[jkam]

Where is this magical land of iphone\ipod gaming being awesome? It seems funny every time you talk about a game on the platform you say for "X" amount how can you go wrong? It sounds like you are more in love with the price point than the game. Infinitely Blade looks awesome but like most of these games they don't amount to much. I'll give you the convenience factor of gaming on your phone without the need to carry another device but without real controls most of these games just fall flat. I'm an ipod touch owner but most of the feature rich games just make me wish the device had a dpad and some buttons.

I'd agree that Sony and Nintendo may need to re-think their pricing structure but I'll carry the extra device for now until phone gaming plays catch up.

[wune]

I gotta say, the music at the beginning of this one made me feel pretty classy. It was like I was in a club watching you guys do the show. Can you start doing that music throughout the show? Some nice jazz always makes things better than they actually are

[hdcase]

Hey Cheapy, can you find out what's going on with Saints Row 3? Is it even still in development? There was supposed to be a trailer during the VGA's according to THQ VP Danny Bilson, and it turned out to be a no-show. I'm taking that as a bad sign.

Anyway I figured if anyone could find out, it'd be you. Thanks.

[jkanownik]

Hey Cheapy, can you find out what's going on with Saints Row 3? Is it even still in development? There was supposed to be a trailer during the VGA's according to THQ VP Danny Bilson, and it turned out to be a no-show. I'm taking that as a bad sign.

Anyway I figured if anyone could find out, it'd be you. Thanks.

No one ever said it would be revealed at the VGA's. Bilson just said December and he said that back in June. At this point I would assume that the movie tie-in has a bigger impact on the release date than the development of the game itself.

[hdcase]

No one ever said it would be revealed at the VGA's. Bilson just said December and he said that back in June. At this point I would assume that the movie tie-in has a bigger impact on the release date than the development of the game itself.
Really, no one?

Danny Bilson: "I believe we're going to announce this at the Spike awards in December."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252042

Either he was mistaken or they changed their plans; either way it'd be nice
if they showed something. See what you can dig up, Cheapy!

[liberaltugboat]

I donated 5 dollars to child's play when cheapy told us too...

[hdcase]

I donated 5 dollars to child's play when cheapy told us too...
Yeah I did too. Good cause and all that.

[jkanownik]

Really, no one?

Danny Bilson: "I believe we're going to announce this at the Spike awards in December."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252042

Either he was mistaken or they changed their plans; either way it'd be nice
if they showed something. See what you can dig up, Cheapy!

Well shit. I look like an idiot. I searched for awhile and kept finding the quote with the generic December timeframe. It's still in THQ's FY12 plans, but it would be nice to get an update.

Edit: CEO Brian Farrell confirmed a fall 2011 release date on 12/2 (http://investor.thq.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=96376&eventID=3563287).

[Oren.The.Red]

hey Cheapy! Greetings from Shibuya!

You are wrong mate!, you *can* find some good deals here in Japan for low-end/mid-range electronics stuff.

There you go, I believe the same soundbar model Wombat got in the US: http://kakaku.com/item/K0000095289/

pretty much the same price tag as well.

you just need to know where to search :) and that can be tough here in Japan!

[hdcase]

Well shit. I look like an idiot. I searched for awhile and kept finding the quote with the generic December timeframe. It's still in THQ's FY12 plans, but it would be nice to get an update.

Edit: CEO Brian Farrell confirmed a fall 2011 release date on 12/2 (http://investor.thq.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=96376&eventID=3563287).
Ah that's cool, thanks for finding that. Makes me feel better. :)

[aceswild03]

Hey cheapy, been listening to the show for a long time. I'm a cop in ohio and it keeps the night entertaining between calls. I found something online I thought you may find funny. Go to break.com and search for robocop remake video. It should be a couple of kids remaking a scene in robocop. Keep up the good work guys.

[syd411]

Holy crap guys, can we spend some more time crapping out BS marketing new-speak? And what was that drivel Wombat was saying about not starting development of a A or AAA title until the success of a downloadable is determined? Nothing would ever get developed that way. I've never heard any of you sound as much like a clueless PR guy from a game publisher than on this episode.

That said, the rest of the show was fine. Go back to what you know about...doody, masturbation, and games.

Maybe you all should pay a visit to whatthefuckismysocialmediastrategy.com the next time you have the need to "Build loyalty & increased engagement through ongoing conversation and brand experience"

[Wolfkin]

Where is this magical land of iphone\ipod gaming being awesome? It seems funny every time you talk about a game on the platform you say for "X" amount how can you go wrong? It sounds like you are more in love with the price point than the game. Infinitely Blade looks awesome but like most of these games they don't amount to much. I'll give you the convenience factor of gaming on your phone without the need to carry another device but without real controls most of these games just fall flat. I'm an ipod touch owner but most of the feature rich games just make me wish the device had a dpad and some buttons.

I'd agree that Sony and Nintendo may need to re-think their pricing structure but I'll carry the extra device for now until phone gaming plays catch up.cheers.

I don't want to bash the iPhone but I highly disagree with the iPhone will dominate the handheld market idea. With the Wii Nintendo keeps saying they're not in competition with the others but with the iPhone it's actually true. All the best features of the iPhone really only apply to the iPhone. Downloading games anywhere, online gaming with your friends in game center. All of those require you to sign a three year contract with whatever phone company you're using. Sure the iPod Touch has cheap games... that are completely inconvenient to get since you have to download them from the computer or over WiFi. Why don't more people see that as the dealbreaker it is. iPhone is a great phone and it has great phone games but let's not over inflate it.

[jkanownik]

Holy crap guys, can we spend some more time crapping out BS marketing new-speak? And what was that drivel Wombat was saying about not starting development of a A or AAA title until the success of a downloadable is determined? Nothing would ever get developed that way. I've never heard any of you sound as much like a clueless PR guy from a game publisher than on this episode.

That said, the rest of the show was fine. Go back to what you know about...doody, masturbation, and games.

Nice title. The problem is that Wombat is riffing alone without any perspective since Cheapy and Shipwreck can't really add to the conversation due to lack of business experience. While the overall quality of Wombat's business monologues may not be that great, it's still much better than every other gaming podcast where the people talking have zero business experience. I say keep at it. One time he may actually come up with a great idea and it will all be worth it.

[Gimgak]

So looks like no new episode this week then? Feck :(

I'll still donate my money, as soon as my paypal will be refilled.

[Wolfkin]

I dunno I liked Wombat's talk on game promotional ideas. I think some of the posters were taking his words a little too literally. I'm not certain he was suggesting that we don't start developing a Triple-A title until we develop, release, and get feedback from our prequel DLC game, but the idea he was trying to express had merit I thought.

[MegWithAMouth]

Loved the podcast as usual guys.

I came across this earlier and thought you might find it interesting. Timegate Studios, the devs behind Section 8, are releasing a sequel to that called Section 8: Prejudice, on the XBL Marketplace, PSN Network and PC digital distributors such as Steam and Games for Windows Live. They will not be releasing in hard copy form and it will include a fully fleshed out single player, multiplayer and cooperative modes, with the promise of DLC to extend the life of the game. Perhaps the most amazing part is that it will be available for $15 at release. Seems like someone agrees with Wombat's digital marketing strategy.

Here's the link to the full article and press release:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/15/section-8-prejudice-download/

[MCalvert1]

Entertaining as always. Has Wombat ever been so drunk on air?

MjC

[paydebt328]

Great show Guys

I have an idea on how to rase more money for CAG Childsplay. Do a cagcast marathon. like a telathon but ... not... Great show guys!

[Wombat]

Entertaining as always. Has Wombat ever been so drunk on air?

MjC

I was stone sober, I don't even have booze in the house.

[Wolfkin]

So I'm listening to the show again at around 1:16:34

I'm not trying to say that CheapyD is wrong in his assessment that the iPhone is going to increase in popularity but it's the actual arguments that bother me. I get kinda ranty because I'm bored right now so ... For instance CheapyD champions the Free/<$6 price point as a huge draw. I realize its not the same thing but by that logic the PC should be over taking the console since you can get thousands of free and legal complete games on the PC (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244468). (not even counting the browser based stuff, or freemium items). You might argue that you get a better experience on the console but I would argue the same could be said of the DS vs iPhone. I do think that $50 for a handheld game is very very high even with 3D but I think I'll wait until we get more substantial rumors or dare I say actual confirmable news on the subject before I start predicting the 3DS's spiral.

CheapyD first says the iPhone is great because you can download the games you want right where you are.a nice feature to be sure but it's not like a feature apple came up with. They're working with a phone. A phone. Which means, and I can't emphasis this enough, you're paying a phone bill. It's very easy to tap into your phones data connection and do stuff. It'snot like the DSi could have had always on internet and choose not to, there's no infrastructure for it.

Shipwreck points out his nieces love the iPod Touch over their DS - for a kid are you really going to buy an iPhone that's an expensive handset for say a 10 or 12 year old. But if you instead buy an iPod Touch suddenly all the greatness of the iPhone isn't there. You CAN'T buy the games right where you are. You have to be in WiFi range. You don't get the online connectivity in the store or in certain applications.

Wombat says the DS/PSP should have free internet. I'm still a bit unclear on what he means. If you mean internet features like the friendslist that yes I can concur but you also suggested that it should be free implying that he DS/PSP currently or plan to charge for internet access which I find highly unlikely to happen or that they lack internet which means you're talking about a mobile radio. Nintendo has their Red Wifi Symbol but most games you can play for free. You seem to be mixing and matching different definitions of 'free internet'. When you say 'free internet' like PSN for free or XBL for free then I can get behind that .. because they pretty much already do that on handhelds (they just don't do it well). We want better features (like the friendslist or text chat). But if you mean 'free internet' like you should be able to get online and post high scores on a park bench. Then you're talking crazy. What bandwidth would you use for this? You're obviously not talking Wifi because that's back to the first instance and the handhelds HAVE wifi they just need better features. So you must mean something like installing a phone sim so you could use your phone plan to get online. That's something I wholeheartedly don't want. If they put a phone radio in your DS it becomes a phone. Like the PSP Phone rumor that was so very popular. If they make a PSP/DS phone suddenly you're going to get blocked by the carrier gateway. The price will skyrocket and then you'll be signing 3 year contracts to get a DS.

Wish I had AC:B so I could play with Shipwreck. it's only slightly irksome to have everyone else just urge him to more or less junk the game just because it's the PS3 version. But whatever I don't mind you guys having a console preference. The rest of the show holds up to a second listen. Especially Wombat's Prequel DLC talk. I need to start listening to other shows again. Don't normally relisten to ANY show.

[The Dutch Slayer]

so no new show this week :( to bad but understandable hopefully we will have one next week :)

[jusplainme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yc9FXJT8HE

[Wolfkin]

well yeah.. i thought we all assumed that comment was based on reality. I almost remembered something about that.