CAGcast #225: PS3 Blood Libel

[CheapyD]

15060[/IMG-L]Shipwreck, with help from Wombat and Cheapy, examines the PS3 2011 exclusive lineup and wonders what went wrong. Also, blood libel.

134
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Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):
Intro - Pocket 808: Ghostship Hook n Sling Remix

New Releases 1/9-1/15: Tights and Panties Edition (http://tech-gaming.com/2011/01/07/new-releases-19-115.aspx)

GameStop wants to link your console to a GameStop ID (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/12/gamestop-wants-to-link-your-console-to-a-gamestop-id/)

NPD Sales Results For December 2010 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418652)

'Splosion Man Maker Calls Capcom's MaXplosion "Complete Theft" (http://www.1up.com/news/splosion-man-maker-calls-capcom)
Dragon Age 2 bonus DLC opens the Black Emporium for business (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/12/dragon-age-2-bonus-dlc-opens-the-black-emporium-for-business/)
Report: Marvel vs Capcom 3 cheekily punishes rage quitters (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/12/report-marvel-vs-capcom-3-cheekily-punishes-rage-quitters/)
Pac-Man Reality Series In The Works (http://www.deadline.com/2011/01/pac-man-reality-series-in-the-works/)

PS3 2011 Preview: 20 Exclusive Games (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/01/10/ps3-2011-preview-20-exclusive-games/)
Sony goes legal on PS3 hackers (http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/mcvuk/oXMK/%7E3/8JpfgQWrN8Y/Sony-goes-legal-on-PS3-hackers)

8-4 Play Podcast (on 3DS) (http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3181465)

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Outro: Gameboy Camera (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=12244)

[200STM]

Sweet CAGcast! While playing NFL Blitz 2000!!! on NES64

[Master Troll]

Awesome, downloading right in time for sleep.

[BuckFush187]

thanx, westside!

[Ltor]

i had a flutter in my soul that told me to check for a new cagcast, and here it is. Now to fall asleep to the wonderful banter of two jews and a ginger. (feel free to use that as your trio's name in rock band 3)

[Dr Mario Kart]

I did a double take on the title. How topical.

[xlaxparkax]

Blood Libel sounds like a band featured on Guitar Hero: Warriors Of Rock.

[zzebedee]

Won't download for me for some reason on itunes, it shows it in the list in my subscribed podcasts bit but doesn't download.
Anyone else having this?

[lokizz]

aside from shipwreck you 2 (cheapy and wombat) do come off like microsoft fanboys. actually listen to the shit you say in your podcasts some thing you nitpick about with the ps3 console and ps4 games youll gloss over or ignore when it comes to xbox games and consooles. just own up to it already and stop denying it. btw cheapy its hard to take your opinion on games seriously anyway when you whine about how if a game is too much of a challenge you dont want to play it and you play most games on easy.

as far as wishing the ps3 was better cmon already i wish xbox had better games and more variety in games. the lack of variety and the instability of the system itself is why i never bought one.

[Dr Mario Kart]

They have their preferences, but I dont find them hugely unfair. The 360 has very robust online functionality, strength in particular kinds of games and perhaps most importantly, most of your friends probably own one. They've criticized 360 when appropriate.

Its ok to have preferences.

[odin08]

That pac-man show sounds terrible. Also, I think that Sony need to get their act together. They always seem to drop the ball with their systems when they could do so much more.

[Loonknight]

The Cagcast has been "dumping" on the PS3 and Sony since I've started to listen to this podcast, it is usually a short snicker or comment here or there such as "Nobody has a Go, that doesn't count." I'm glad at least you guys are trying to "help Sony"

Now I would be disappointed with the PS3's online service or the Wii's online service if I had to pay-to-play online like I have to do with my Xbox360. Microsoft essentially fooled everyone last gen when they started Xbox Live and its pay-to-play service adding this new premium in order to play with your friends online and back then paying for something like that made sense. The crack that is playing with friends online was what Microsoft was banking on and has helped continue to improve the Xbox Live infrastructure to what it is today. They essentially have pulled the wool over the collective gaming minds of the community and I applaud them for their mastery of the Jedi Mind trick they employed and applaud Microsoft for continuing to keep fooling us all into thinking you still need to pay-to-play online. So bravo.

Now, I am not dumping on the Xbox360. It has excellent games on it, and great indie titles as Wombat has pointed out recently, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support a pay-to-play model I don't believe in anymore. I can stream Netflix on my Wii, my iPod, my Mac, my PC, my PS3 for free, but not on my Xbox...why is that??? We need to rise up against this before other companies start charging us to pay-to-play online because they want more revenue. Oh wait there are companies that do that already. I'm looking at you Electronic Arts and speaking of here is my Metal of Honor key for my PS3 version that I'll not be using K6TH-QQNP-NKC4

At any rate, I enjoy the show and the Cagcast so keep it up guys.

[aktivity]

I think it really comes down to pricing and not so much the games. As consequence of the pricing you'll more likely to have friends with an Xbox, so you'll naturally drift towards an Xbox so you can play with them. Most of the time Sony tends to have the better exclusives. It's the reason why I choose a PS3 instead of a X360. The PC being my preferred gaming platform made this decision easier for me, since most Xbox games get ported eventually.

Personally coming from the PC I just couldn't justify paying for Live. I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was getting scammed. Even more so when I took into consideration that most of the services like Netflix don't even make it over here in Europe, not to mention the ads. I will agree that Sony needs to do something about how they promote PSN games though.

[HustlerKid]

I thought I was the only one who noticed how much they rag on the PS3...its pretty annoying.Yeah I know I dont have to listen to the show but I do enjoy the banter. I suggest you guys realize that you do have PS3 fans that listen to your show, some that cant afford to get a 360 too.

[Kisses]

i hate this preorder thing with DA2. i think i will wait for DA2 to drop in price to balance out the cost of the DLC.
As for PS3. i love it. i play it every day but i hate XMB with passion! and i think HOME was a waste of money and time for Sony.
in 2011 i think i buy more games on ps3 than on xbox because of those exclusive J-RPGs but it's me, i like this stuff.
P.S. never commented on show before, feels good (^_^)

[Broo]

aside from shipwreck you 2 (cheapy and wombat) do come off like microsoft fanboys. actually listen to the shit you say in your podcasts some thing you nitpick about with the ps3 console and ps4 games youll gloss over or ignore when it comes to xbox games and consooles. just own up to it already and stop denying it. btw cheapy its hard to take your opinion on games seriously anyway when you whine about how if a game is too much of a challenge you dont want to play it and you play most games on easy.

as far as wishing the ps3 was better cmon already i wish xbox had better games and more variety in games. the lack of variety and the instability of the system itself is why i never bought one.

I thought they were XBox fanboys. I thought that was part of the schtick. I mean, look at the color of the site.

[CheapyD]

you play most games on easy.
I've played one game on Easy, Metro 2033. I can't remember any other game that I've not played on the default difficulty.

[HustlerKid]

I thought they were XBox fanboys. I thought that was part of the schtick. I mean, look at the color of the site.



good point. i can understand cheapy being a fanboy, but i thought wombat had some class lol (jk, jk)

[Big-T]

I never post but feel I needed to agree on how Cheapy and Wombat do come off as huge Xbox fanboys. I love the show and will listen to it every week but I do get very annoyed with the fanboysm .

[repete]

seems like there is going to be some sarah palin talk

[sheppyboy2000]

seems like there is going to be some sarah palin talk
Either some Sarah Palin talk or them pesky christians spreading rumors about how terrible jews need childrens blood for their rituals and traditions. I really, really, really despise how often people in the political realm misappropriate words.

I am curious, however, how 2011 is going wrong with PS3 exclusives... 2010, I can understand if you're just not into Mag and such, but 2011?

[Fell Open Ian]

I can tell you what the PS3 is seriously lacking: RPG powerhouses from Squaresoft.

If you look back at the libraries of both the PS1 and PS2 they are overrun with Japanese RPGs and many of the best ones, some would even say the best ones ever made, are from Squaresoft.

Square and Enix are one entity now, they also own Eidos, and are able to call upon the wonderful studio that is Level-5 to produce superb products time and time again. Sony needs to be throwing cash at them, locking up exclusives, and marketing the living hell out of the titles.

Fucking seriously Sony = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Square_games#PlayStation

One spot where 2011 is already going horribly wrong for Sony is the whole cracked wide-open private signing keys made public because Sony failed to use a random number mess. If piracy becomes rampant for them then the hardware sales will seriously spike but the utter ease of the hack could cause software sales to plummet.

I adore my PS3 and some of the best gaming in my lifetime was done on the PS1 but Sony has this strange curse this gen where they step in shit at every single turn and it is heartbreaking and baffling to watch.

[Wombat]

I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.

[shipwreck]

I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.

Look at your shirt. It's GREEEEEEEEEEN! Case closed.

[dsheinem]

I'm a big fan of the show, but this is the first time I've been compelled to comment and disagree with some of your points:

Wombat: I'm not sure why you are complaining about the pre-order scheme for Dragon Age 2. I can understand being upset if you didn't know about it and missed out, but you did know about it and chose not to pre-order. It's actually a clever marketing scheme - the most devout fans of the DA franchise and Bioware (such as yourself) would probably know about it and pre-order accordingly. The novelty of the marketing scheme got people talking (in favor or against) and raised awareness. This is the kind of fanservice that is smart, not dumb.

Shipwreck: You are right to point to diminishing returns of sequels on the PS3 - that's a very valid point and innovation would certainly behoove them. But, trying to figure out what games will be a "system seller" seems pointless at this point in a console's lifespan. What new 360 exclusives do you think will attract new users? Their big exclusive this year is Gears of War 3 - which will sell great to people who bought a 360 already for Gears 1 or 2 and the like - but probably not move many new consoles. The reason MS has been moving so many consoles so well is A) their back catalog, B) Kinect (which is smartly marketed) and C) RRODs. What new Wii games will sell the Wii? the PSP? the DS? I really don't think that there is a single upcoming "core demographic" game that will create new users on any of these systems.

Other than being a little whinier than usual, it was a great show as always, but I just can't see where you are coming from on these points.

[gordiet]

Love the CAGCast... look forward to it every week...

I just wanted to say I hope you don't change the year-end review show one bit. It's been my favorite show for the past few years, and I think the way you go console by console & genre by genre should stay. It's a riot that Cheapy hasn't picked a favorite Wii game, or even turn his Wii on, for at least three years now. Fuck the PS3 fanboys who get all pissy that their system isn't as good as the 360. And besides, it's your favorite games, not a definitive list of the best of "whatever" category.

[shipwreck]

I'm a big fan of the show, but this is the first time I've been compelled to comment and disagree with some of your points:

Wombat: I'm not sure why you are complaining about the pre-order scheme for Dragon Age 2. I can understand being upset if you didn't know about it and missed out, but you did know about it and chose not to pre-order. It's actually a clever marketing scheme - the most devout fans of the DA franchise and Bioware (such as yourself) would probably know about it and pre-order accordingly. The novelty of the marketing scheme got people talking (in favor or against) and raised awareness. This is the kind of fanservice that is smart, not dumb.

Shipwreck: You are right to point to diminishing returns of sequels on the PS3 - that's a very valid point and innovation would certainly behoove them. But, trying to figure out what games will be a "system seller" seems pointless at this point in a console's lifespan. What new 360 exclusives do you think will attract new users? Their big exclusive this year is Gears of War 3 - which will sell great to people who bought a 360 already for Gears 1 or 2 and the like - but probably not move many new consoles. The reason MS has been moving so many consoles so well is A) their back catalog, B) Kinect (which is smartly marketed) and C) RRODs. What new Wii games will sell the Wii? the PSP? the DS? I really don't think that there is a single "core demographic" game that will create new users on any of these systems.

Other than being a little whinier than usual, it was a great show as always, but I just can't see where you are coming from on these points.

You should comment more often, I like your points. One thing I'd say to the "at this point in a console's lifespan" though is that there's a lot of life left in these consoles. I'd just like to see Sony do something rather than riding it out.

[HustlerKid]

I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.

I agree with you there. One of the reasons I wanted an Xbox last gen was its Bioware exclusives(KOTOR, Jade Empire, that stuff) and now they develop most if not all of their games on PS3 as well now.Same goes for FF13 but vice versa, that wasn't that good tho.

I seriously believe that when it comes to commercial exclusives that Sony has been doing a better job. At least with originality this gen. Infamous, Uncharted, Resistance, are all really good IPs that were created this gen. Now rather or not these new franchises are being milked to death...maybe but still there new.

[shogunieyasu]

Cheapy, Shipwreck, Wombat:

The criticism of PSN integration is completely fair and quite accurate (though not all gamers care about those aspects of the console). Until Blue Ray Players became cheap, PS3 fanboys could criticize the lack of a Blue Ray player on the Xbox, though again, lots of people don't care. Personally, I hate all Microsoft products.

The real point is that while game reviewers and a few hard-core gamers may have both systems, your average gamer doesn't. I have a PS3, I play games on my iPhone, and recently I can play some games through Steam on my Apple computer. So, the only console experience that I know is the PS3. Your criticism of the PS3 is rooted in the fact that you own all the systems and have the luxury of choosing which to play. Most of us don't have that luxury, so swipes at the PS3 (particularly the off-the-cuff comments in the average podcast that aren't thoughtful and contextualized) just seem obnoxious.

I love your podcast, though, and I don't really care about your Xbox leanings. Obnoxious can be funny. If I want to hear PS3 cheerleading, I listen to the IGN Beyond podcast.

PS3 CAGS: friend me on PSN at "casparnic"

[Wombat]

I'm a big fan of the show, but this is the first time I've been compelled to comment and disagree with some of your points:

Wombat: I'm not sure why you are complaining about the pre-order scheme for Dragon Age 2. I can understand being upset if you didn't know about it and missed out, but you did know about it and chose not to pre-order. It's actually a clever marketing scheme - the most devout fans of the DA franchise and Bioware (such as yourself) would probably know about it and pre-order accordingly. The novelty of the marketing scheme got people talking (in favor or against) and raised awareness. This is the kind of fanservice that is smart, not dumb.


I have no problem with pre-order bonuses, but I felt the short time frame for so much content, and to do it so far in advance was a bad decision. I think they would get more pre-orders by throwing this in as a pre-order surprise closer to release, instead of pissing off people that may have missed out due to bad timing.

[shogunieyasu]

I have no problem with pre-order bonuses, but I felt the short time frame for so much content, and to do it so far in advance was a bad decision. I think they would get more pre-orders by throwing this in as a pre-order surprise closer to release, instead of pissing off people that may have missed out due to bad timing.

Wombat: but if companies cared more about making people happy and less about making money, they would just give all their content away for free. This shit makes money. Contests, sales, limited-time offers--it's all bullshit. Saying that, I did pre-order DAII so I'm stoked.

Rise up comrades, and overthrow these capitalist game distributors! Isn't that sort of the CAG ethos?

PS3 CAGS: friend me on PSN at "casparnic"

[davidb69]

Well let's see you pay $40-60 a year for XBOX live gold that gives you better web services. I pay $100 a year for our 4 accounts at home, so they are all gold at $25 a piece. Saying that and the annoying PS3 installs, I pay for Playstation plus so it downloads updates in the background on the PS3 which really helps and feel that it equals itself to xbox live gold, plus you get a lot of cool free games(do you guys do this? I've gotten about $80 of free games for a $50 service). As for new PSN releases? Just goto new releases, all the items are there. I want to know what free stuff I get from PS Plus, I goto Plus and the games are there. I enjoy watching Qore(which is pretty much a magazine that I get for free now with Plus). I pay for both Plus and Live and get value from both, I'm a happy consumer. Looking for old PSN items are a little frustrating but I really don't agree with your listing issues. I'm a little pissed with Kinect since they said that it would have integration with Netflix and it doesn't which I think they didn't include it purposely because they wanted people to buy movies from zune to use the Kinect and I didn't buy it. it works well with ESPN, so I'm happy with that.

I suggest the CAG team replay Heavy Rain with the Playstation Move, it's a totally different game that for me made the game a solid 7 to a solid 9.5, it loses .5 for install time. It's definatly the only Move game in my opinion for real gamers to play interactivly and sit on the couch. I am looking forward to Sorcery for the same reason.

The Playstation is not going downhill, it's so much better system then the xbox which isn't the best right now. Not playing LBP2???????????? That is frustrating because you don't give it a fair chance. Sackboy jumps the way he does because he is a sackperson not a real person. Now there is jumppacks for more jumping goodness, Seriously, it's the best console game of the year. There is so much online content, there is a story mode in this version and you can make your own games in this new version. Have you guys play any of the 2 + million levels online? I think it's sad that you all just dismiss it since the game covers multiple genres. Please rethink this and give it a fair try and play online. It's a lot of fun with 3 or 4 players. Maybe all play with each other during a show.

I dont understand how because xbox can advertise to consumers better about games makes them a better system? I don't think I will change your preferences as much as you will change mine. I don't think I'd tell xbox how to do a better job. The biggest seller for xbox is the 10 million dead 360 consoles that have made customers buy 10 million new 360 consoles.

The Wii is 1000% worse with finding online content, I feel that I might play the Wii more but I need more nerd score on my PSN and live accounts. I have so many cool games for the Wii but because of graphics and other games to play on PSN and xbox, I don't turn on the wii.

Trade ins for map packs? Can't you download with point cards from gamestop? I'd rather not link my account to anyone. I am 100% in agreeing with Dragon Age 2 preorder crap. I am against preordering unless there is a collectors edition that you really want.

Anyways, great cagcast as always.

[adriley313]

ummm would love to listen but its not up on Itunes yet.
Guess i can stream it from my iPod Touch since i really wanna listen to it.
Keep up the good work,

[Wombat]

Wombat: but if companies cared more about making people happy and less about making money, they would just give all their content away for free. This shit makes money. Contests, sales, limited-time offers--it's all bullshit. Saying that, I did pre-order DAII so I'm stoked.

Rise up comrades, and overthrow these capitalist game distributors! Isn't that sort of the CAG ethos?

PS3 CAGS: friend me on PSN at "casparnic"

I never said give it away for free, just extend that pre-order time to closer to the release date. Nothing crazy.

[davidb69]

ummm would love to listen but its not up on Itunes yet.
Guess i can stream it from my iPod Touch since i really wanna listen to it.
Keep up the good work,


I downloaded from itunes at 6am this morning

[davidb69]

I never said give it away for free, just extend that pre-order time to closer to the release date. Nothing crazy.

Can't they just have the code in the 500k games they ship?

[dsheinem]

I never said give it away for free, just extend that pre-order time to closer to the release date. Nothing crazy.

Right, but the novelty of the idea probably generated more preorders than a standard approach would have. In a show where you are all pushing for industry innovation, I fail to see how you miss this. It would be interesting, in March, to compare pre-order numbers between DA2 and a similarly selling game that took the standard approach to preorder bonuses. I am willing to bet that DA2 will have had more preorders.

Of course, I'm not sure if those numbers are available. Maybe the show's Bioware friends can enlighten us.

[Fell Open Ian]

Not playing LBP2????????????

Now this is coming from someone who has been playing platformers and loving them for nearly three decades now but LittleBigPlanet feels terrible.

I fully accept that that is my problem but it would seem that many others feel the same way about the controls and were let down by the demo for 2 being more of the same in that regard.

There is some middle-ground there between Super Mario Bros. and a full-on physics platformer and I think that Trine is much closer to my ideal than LBP.

[shipwreck]

The Playstation is not going downhill, it's so much better system then the xbox which isn't the best right now. Not playing LBP2???????????? That is frustrating because you don't give it a fair chance. Sackboy jumps the way he does because he is a sackperson not a real person. Now there is jumppacks for more jumping goodness, Seriously, it's the best console game of the year. There is so much online content, there is a story mode in this version and you can make your own games in this new version. Have you guys play any of the 2 + million levels online? I think it's sad that you all just dismiss it since the game covers multiple genres. Please rethink this and give it a fair try and play online. It's a lot of fun with 3 or 4 players. Maybe all play with each other during a show.

"Seriously, it's the best console game of the year." Listen, I'm glad you enjoy a game so much that isn't even released yet and is already the best game of the year 2 weeks into 2011. That seems perfectly reasonable and logical. I do not want to play it though. I gave the first game more than a fair shot and I do not like LittleBigPlanet.

[Fell Open Ian]

Listen, I'm glad you enjoy a game so much that isn't even released yet and is already the best game of the year 2 weeks into 2011. That seems perfectly reasonable and logical.

*cough there's a beta*;)

[davidb69]

Now this is coming from someone who has been playing platformers and loving them for nearly three decades now but LittleBigPlanet feels terrible.

I fully accept that that is my problem but it would seem that many others feel the same way about the controls and were let down by the demo for 2 being more of the same in that regard.

There is some middle-ground there between Super Mario Bros. and a full-on physics platformer and I think that Trine is much closer to my ideal than LBP.

I'd say the first 5 hours of playing LBP I bitched and whined about how it felt floaty. Then playing for hours after that you get the point of why he's floaty and get used to the jumping and how the game plays. How many games are out there as platformers that you can play hours and hours of levels to the extreme that are fresh and inventive? I have a 7 and 9 year olds that have all of us playing and striving to completed the game to 100% completion. My youngest son has come the closest. I've played the demo for 2 and it does have the same physics, I would be pissed if it was changed. I think there is some levels you can create with different gravity in 2 but I am not 100% sure. I am looking forward to the story and pasting my own sounds in new levels in LBP2. I just think people that get frustrated shouldn't quit because of the feel, the game is going to be awesome. It's ok that people don't like it. I just don't like the cagcast being dismissive and not even willing to give it a try on what will be the top selling game on consoles in January. Have you played multiplayer on the 3rd level in the demo?

[Fell Open Ian]

Have you played multiplayer on the 3rd level in the demo?

Nope. Honestly, I didn't even make it through the second level before I quit-out because of the controls.

You have to realize though that LBP is totally in my wheelhouse even with me not caring for the controls...it's just not in my $60 full-price wheelhouse is all.

[CheapyD]

ummm would love to listen but its not up on Itunes yet.
Guess i can stream it from my iPod Touch since i really wanna listen to it.
Keep up the good work,

If you subscribe, it will download.

PS3 installs, I pay for Playstation plus so it downloads updates in the background on the PS3Thank you for reminding me about this. I just turned that feature on.

[davidb69]

"Seriously, it's the best console game of the year." Listen, I'm glad you enjoy a game so much that isn't even released yet and is already the best game of the year 2 weeks into 2011. That seems perfectly reasonable and logical. I do not want to play it though. I gave the first game more than a fair shot and I do not like LittleBigPlanet.

I've played the beta. So yes, i can see it's the game of the year, for what has been released so far. It's 2 weeks into 2011 so every game that is new can be game of the year at that time. I can see some other games possibly taken that title but I need to see more from them before just handing it to them. I love Mass Effect 2 but I can't see it selling more then LBP2 on the PS3. It was the best 360 game last year though, so who knows. My problem is you are dismissing LBP2 without giving it a chance to grab you with it's story, which the first game lacked. Also the forever amount of mini games created in game and online with many genres that you can create can be amazing and I wonder if they will hurt Playstation mini sales. I also love that items bought and earned in the first game upgrade to the 2nd game. I think it would be cool if Wombat attended the Sony Guiness world record event being held in NYC next week.

[kortex]

First of all: I love my xbox, maybe even more than my PS3 but this episode pissed even me off.
I'm almost a little bit ashamed of this comment because I'm participating in a discourse I'm so bored with, and you can give me all the shit you want for it, BUT:
Why don't you do a run down of the xbox exclusives for 2011. Let me help you: Gears of War 3. Done. And who even gives a shit about GOW anymore? So what's the system seller for 360?
And one more thing: Im sick of the "All my friends are on 360" argument. If everybody jumps off a cliff... Just saying.

[Nabeshin186]

I personally don't think Sony's problem is their exclusive games that they release. I think the diversity that the PS3 brings to consoles is one of it's stronger points. I think the biggest disconnection for most people with the PS3 is honestly the interface. Sure people like to play their games but they would also like to talk to their friends or listen to their own music and not every game has that on the PS3. The PS3 is very inconsistent on the features it has for their games whether it YouTube uploads, custom soundtrack, Trophies, or saving screenshots. The 360 has standards that every game must have being party chat, custom soundtracks, and achievements and that what people expect for every game they play. Though I do prefer playing my games on the PS3, I do fully understand that the PS3 is a chore of a system to stomach. I'm personally able to deal with it but some gamers aren't.

Love the podcast guys and this was my first comment ever so keep up the good work and never waver from the opinions you have. Wombat I actually like Heavy Rain but I respect your opinion on saying it's terrible. See, you can have one good comment from someone that isn't chastising you for having an opinion. ;)

[mkernan]

Regarding the PS3/Xbox debate, I would not call any of the hosts "fanboys". They make very solid, well-thought out arguments. I agree with many of their points, but tend to prefer the PS3 for other reasons. I think the biggest, most obvious leg up that the 360 has over the PS3 is the online experience. The way that Xbox Live is seamlessly integrated throughout the entire online experience is far superior to the way PSN is implemented. Having said that, you of course have to pay for Xbox Live (and the price has gone up) while PSN is free. So for me, that is a wash for the most part. I don't mind paying for better service and more features, but online multiplayer aside, most of the "features" that are included in an XBL Gold membership are a complete rip-off (e.g. - having to pay a premium for access to Netflix, Hulu Plus, ESPN, Last.fm, etc).

Shipwreck's rundown of 2011 PS3 exclusives did a good job of highlighting the fact that Sony are essentially only appealing to their base and not spending enough energy on bringing in new consumers. However, I think the most glaring omission in his statements was the increasing number of media-centric features of the PS3. Of course, its always been a fantastic Blu-ray player, but they have taken great strides to bring more and more Internet-based media-streaming services to the console. With the additions of Netflix, Hulu Plus, MLB, NHL, and Vudu (and presumably more to come in the future), I think Sony is positioning the PS3 as one of the best options for a set-top box, in addition to already being a great game console. The most important point to be made is that PS3 users get access to all these features without having to pay for any sort of premium membership, beyond what is required by each respective service (e.g. - you don't need XBL Gold/PS+ to use these great features). Not to mention, you can also play all sorts of video, music, and photo files on the console.

While I certainly agree that Sony isn't doing enough to bring in new consumers on the games side, I think the efforts they've made to add all these other non-gaming features to the PS3 make it a pretty appealing set-top box/game console to people who aren't already on the Sony bandwagon.

[adriley313]

If you subscribe, it will download.


i dont have iTunes on a computer just my iPod Touch.
Its all good ill just stream it from the website.

thx a bunch and keep rockin

If i have a pS3 id play LBP2 and the CE
who doesnt love sackboy

[kortex]

I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.

So... what's your point? After talking an hour about how shitty SONY or the PS3 is, you post this comment? Seriously, what is your point? *shakes head*

[mkernan]

I personally don't think Sony's problem is their exclusive games that they release. I think the diversity that the PS3 brings to consoles is one of it's stronger points. I think the biggest disconnection for most people with the PS3 is honestly the interface. Sure people like to play their games but they would also like to talk to their friends or listen to their own music and not every game has that on the PS3. The PS3 is very inconsistent on the features it has for their games whether it YouTube uploads, custom soundtrack, Trophies, or saving screenshots. The 360 has standards that every game must have being party chat, custom soundtracks, and achievements and that what people expect for every game they play. Though I do prefer playing my games on the PS3, I do fully understand that the PS3 is a chore of a system to stomach. I'm personally able to deal with it but some gamers aren't.

I completely agree with you. The PS3's interface and feature set was absolutely terrible when the console launched. I think they did a pretty terrible job of designing their UI and some of the mechanics of how the console operates (specifically the need to "install" games/content after it is downloaded).

Having said that, I give them an A++ for the progress they've made over the years with enhancing the feature set through firmware updates. The UI is still relatively bad, but they have come a very, very long way in terms of improving the functionality of the console since launch.

[davidb69]

First of all: I love my xbox, maybe even more than my PS3 but this episode even pissed me off. I'm almost a little bit ashamed of this comment and you can give me all the shit you want for it. BUT:
Why don't you do a run down of the xbox exclusives for 2011. Let me help you: Gears of War 3. Done. And who even gives a shit about GOW anymore. So what's the system seller for 360?

Must 360 owners will say it's catologue of games will sell you. They will bring up the Halo, gears of war games etc. If they are desprite they will bring up Kinect. I'm done with the horror shooter genre. Every game seems to be heading in this direction. I like Halo, gears, Killzone, Resistance. they are fun. Most games that I have seen on preorder are made for both consoles.

I think Sorcery can sell PS3s and the Move at the same time. I wish Harry Potter part 1 was developed with the move in mind and would be a console seller, The biggest console seller is price. That is why xbox is selling a $199 4gb console right now.

Oh in case people thing I love everything Sackboy, I didn't like Sackboy Prehistoric Moves because you needed someone to use the move and do nothing but move stuff on the screen which is as boring as being a 2nd player on Super Mario Galaxy.

[Wombat]

So... what's your point? After talking an hour about how shitty SONY or the PS3 is, you post this comment? Seriously, what is your point? *shakes head*

I said the PS3 was shitty for an hour?

[LiK]

Giant black penis in a spreadsheet. Now THAT's new.

Hey Cheapy, I loved and beat Demon's Souls. EAT IT! :P

[Fell Open Ian]

Any avid Steam user will tell you that paying for Live is absolutely laughable. Money for a mostly peer-to-peer system with ads? Not gonna fly when you have VAC-enabled dedicated servers which are well moderated with nasty banhammers for free.

[kortex]

I said the PS3 was shitty for an hour?

Ahm... Yes, you did ... I guess ... because as I said: I dont get your point. Very sneaky, Wombat, very sneaky.

[jacobeid]

Another cagcast shitting on the ps3. I'll pass. You lost me with the piss and fart jokes.

[berzirk]

AHHH HAAA HAAA. Cagcast title WIN!

[lombarvm]

Somewhere this thread devolved into a Youtube comments section. Amazing how people can be so offended about something as trivial as video games. Get a life, fanboys.

[davidb69]

I said the PS3 was shitty for an hour?

I was more upset with Shipwreck's comments more then Wombat. Cheapy has always seems to lean towards a xbox but he gives a chance and plays some PS3 games, heck he gave Wombat a PS3. I don't mind you skipping crappy games but LBP2 will be a top seller in 2011 and seems like a crime that it has no chance to be game of the year and doesn't deserve to be skipped and skoffed at. I didn't understand why Sony needs to make new inventive games when they are doing that with the Move, netflix without an online prescription to via xbox live gold, mlb.tv and NHL gamecenter.

I got a free move and held a party and because of the party a few friends bought PS3s and bought moves as well. So they sell systems with this. Sales people at Gamestop and Best Buy were telling people to buy Kinect over the Move. Not sure why except I saw more stock of Kinect on end displays but Move was in the middle of the isle. Of everyone I know who have played Kinect and Move, they love the move more.

I don't think the way the system's store works should be part of how it's a system seller. I don't get that argument unless you are a developer and would want to make a 360 game because of the free marketing you can get. I would say the store's and what is in them rank
1. 360
2. PS3
3. Wii

Have a great weekend everyone.

[LiK]

I said the PS3 was shitty for an hour?

TWO hours! :bomb:

[StriderNo9]

Cheapy just doesn't get it. I like my 360 more than my PS3 admittedly, but I give the consoles a fair shake. When Wombat likes a PS3 game he talks about it like he means it, when Cheapy likes a game on the PS3, for example God of War 3, he simple states its a good game, and repeats the phrase a few times, almost in a defensive way. He doesn't gush over games like he does for the 360.

But this is the way Cheapy is, when he likes something he becomes a fanboy of it. Like this Windows Phone 7. He doesn't get it still even after Wombat tried to talk some sense into him. Why would MS put their service on another phone when they have phones they want to sell, that's like asking why doesn't MS offer Xbox Live on the PS3.

Yes, MS likes to make money, and sometimes it takes a while to get that money back on an investment, just ask Apple in the early 90s or Microsoft with their original Xbox.

Point is, give it some time and it may be good, but Cheapy doesn't see things like that, he choses to be glib when he has no other opinion.

[fahq1977]

Great job as always guys.

Following up on the rebuttal to the criticism of your favorites of 2010, I agree with almost everything you said. Too much vitriol.

I do agree with Wombat that having a simple list of your favorites is great, though the mess that Shipwreck enjoyed and the exposure to games I might not have considered or would not have been discussed may have been helped by the categories.

However, Cheapy, I disagree with your "If you listen, you know what our favorite games are" comment. I think even as a regular listener, there is great benefit in hearing how time has changed your perspective on games. I would have thought Alan Wake was Cheapy's favorite, but he struggled with choosing it. I liked how some games popped back into your consciousness, and how some old disagreements were made fresh by being forced to discuss, God of War 3 or Red Dead, for instance.

Keep up the good work!

[dubbfoolio]

Not showing up on itunes for me. :(

[oscargrouch]

With the exception of some of Wombat's jokes, this has been one of the best shows in a long time.

Just following up on the PSP2 / 3DS and how well Microsoft has done this cycle when does Microsoft introduce their own handheld?

[Wombat]

With the exception of some of Wombat's jokes, this has been one of the best shows in a long time.

Just following up on the PSP2 / 3DS and how well Microsoft has done this cycle when does Microsoft introduce their own handheld?

some of my jokes, but not all of them, right?

[oscargrouch]

some of my jokes, but not all of them, right?

Some of your jokes are very funny Wombat. Just not all.

[AwRy108]

Great show guys--keep it up. After all these years, I still look forward to the show every week. Also, I love CAG, so thanks for all the awesomeness, CheapyD.

As a PS3 owner and long-time PlayStation fan, here are my PS3 opinions:


the XMB is a confusing, convoluted piece of shit--I've owned my PS3 for years, and I still don't feel comfortable with it as a UI
PSN is nearly on par with Live in terms of features (especially in games like Uncharted 2 and Black Ops), but I forgive its shortcomings because A) it's free; B) I don't buy my videogame consoles based solely on their social features; and C) the service has improved by leaps and bounds, and I only expect it to continue to do so, even if it's not until PS4.
SONY's marketing sucks, but it always has, so, sadly, nothing has changed for them
the PS3 is doing extremely well in Japan, so don't judge its success solely on US sales numbers; same goes for the PSP
despite the fact that they're a business, SONY has never gone out of their way to communicate that all they give a shit about it sales numbers: they're the only console maker that takes big, expensive software risks that are in the interest of their audience, the gamers
SONY has always stood behind their consoles; for example, the PSP is failing in the US, yet 2010 was one of the best software years the device has ever had
toe-to-toe, the PS3 is the clear leader in best exclusive titles; and I don't give a rats ass if the "mass market" agrees: I'm a gamer, and PS3 is where the biggest, most diverse library of exclusives is, period

Here's my quick wrap-up: my wife and I both work full time, have a toddler, a dog, and a mortgage; and I also happen to be a guy who's overly obsessed with gaming. At the end of the day, while I hate the XMB and don't agree with a lot of the decisions that SCEA makes for the PlayStation brand, all I want to do is play videogames every free minute I have. I don't have time or enough schedule consistency to plan social gatherings on my consoles, and prefer a wide variety of games, not just ones that feature armor-clad soldiers. So, quirks aside (*ahem* install times and firmware updates), I'm thrilled with the PS3, and for one major reason: the software library kicks the sh*t out of the competition, especially for those of us that embrace the entire gaming industry, and not just the part the regurgitates space marines.

Also, two things to add: 1) InFamous was a great game, and you guys are foolish for not being psyched for the sequel; and 2) Wombat, just because you're too much of a douche to spend time with Heavy Rain, doesn't mean it sucks. I took a day off of work to plow through it, and it ended up being one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've ever had; and everyone I know who's played it shares similar opinions. Kudos to SCEA for taking on the risk of publishing it.

[AwRy108]

With the exception of some of Wombat's jokes, this has been one of the best shows in a long time.

Just following up on the PSP2 / 3DS and how well Microsoft has done this cycle when does Microsoft introduce their own handheld?

After seeing what happened with the Zune and several of their phones, would anyone even bat an eye at a Microsoft portable?

[bgame2]

Still working my way through last week's Best of 2010 cagcast. Wombat played Mass Effect 2 for 66 hours and spent triple that amount of time interrupting Shipwreck during the cagcasts. I love ya Wombat, but let the man talk!

[lokizz]

I've played one game on Easy, Metro 2033. I can't remember any other game that I've not played on the default difficulty.


look through your cagcasts youve mentioned more than once playing games on easy.

[adriley313]

why no love for Kingdom Hearts re:coded?
that bad mine is still sealed

[shipwreck]

why no love for Kingdom Hearts re:coded?
that bad mine is still sealed

No, I'm sure it's fine if you're into the series and don't mind some rehash. I just accidentally skimmed over it during the show.

[Curufinwe]

I have a 360 and a PS3 and both dashboards work fine, without being perfect. You guys act like the PS3 just needs to copy what the 360 has done, but there are issues with the menus and stores on both consoles.

Downloads on the PS3 are just as fast as on the 360 for me. Wombat shouldn't assume his personal experience applies to everyone.

As someone who doesn't play online console games much I really appreciate being able to play Uncharted 2 and NFS:HP online for free, and don't see any need to pay MS for the privilege of P2P multiplayer. Not to mention that NetFlix being free to use on every device but the 360 just seems farcical now.

The one thing I really prefer about the 360 experience is that you can get a really good Achievement card from mygamercard.net but I'm stuck using two Trophy cards because there's no one site out there that gives you a free card with all the information on it.

[easper]

Interesting that, for the PS3, only exclusive games are considered to be "system sellers." Aside from Halo, did the 360 have any console-exclusive "system selling" games last year?

Now that the holiday season is past, it looks like the 360 system sellers were Kinect (most likely as an excuse for married dudes our age to bring an Xbox into the house), the shiny new "slim" console, and Xbox LIVE.

Goes to show that being able to play games with your friends is a big enough deal that it doesn't matter if LIVE isn't free, the dashboard annoys you, or that Microsoft has shifted its focus to a casual market that wants to wave their hands at the screen and maybe watch ESPN3 (if their ISP offers it).

Now that I think about it, being able to connect with my friends was the main reason I bought an Xbox in the first place—and I'm guessing that's the reason Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck do most of their time gaming on the 360.

[DragoonKnight]

I'm a big fan of the show, but this is the first time I've been compelled to comment and disagree with some of your points:

Wombat: I'm not sure why you are complaining about the pre-order scheme for Dragon Age 2. I can understand being upset if you didn't know about it and missed out, but you did know about it and chose not to pre-order. It's actually a clever marketing scheme - the most devout fans of the DA franchise and Bioware (such as yourself) would probably know about it and pre-order accordingly. The novelty of the marketing scheme got people talking (in favor or against) and raised awareness. This is the kind of fanservice that is smart, not dumb.

Shipwreck: You are right to point to diminishing returns of sequels on the PS3 - that's a very valid point and innovation would certainly behoove them. But, trying to figure out what games will be a "system seller" seems pointless at this point in a console's lifespan. What new 360 exclusives do you think will attract new users? Their big exclusive this year is Gears of War 3 - which will sell great to people who bought a 360 already for Gears 1 or 2 and the like - but probably not move many new consoles. The reason MS has been moving so many consoles so well is A) their back catalog, B) Kinect (which is smartly marketed) and C) RRODs. What new Wii games will sell the Wii? the PSP? the DS? I really don't think that there is a single upcoming "core demographic" game that will create new users on any of these systems.

Other than being a little whinier than usual, it was a great show as always, but I just can't see where you are coming from on these points.

I was going to make a comment, but this post sums everything up so well. What is the point of trying to find this elusive "system seller?" Did Alan Wake sell Xbox 360's? Did Fable 3 sell Xbox 360's? You could say Halo: Reach sold consoles, but it's just another Halo game when the console already had a main franchise Halo release (Halo 3). Basically, the entire time I was listening to the conversation I was just wondering what the point of it was. I feel like this episode was so forced. It seems like you guys let the comments guide the conversation more than you should have.

[mclovin77]

As a matter of fact the ps3 is not a bad console. But Sony screwed it all up with lots of stupid decicions.

My brother lend me his one and i really don't see why i should use it for more than as a blue ray player - but that can do my laptop or my philips blue ray player as well.

I still think my "WII60"-Combo serves me well and to be honest, my online service costs me a few bucks per month, but i get good service

[TG_Antifire]

Cheapy did you really say that Socom is NOW a third-person shooter? How can Socom be in steady decline since it peaked on the ps2 when only one was made on the ps3 and it was not made by Zipper? Just leave Socom out if you don't know anything about it.

[LiK]

Shippy, you got Ghost Trick? It's great.

[AwRy108]

Cheapy did you really say that Socom is NOW a third-person shooter? How can Socom be in steady decline since it peaked on the ps2 when only one was made on the ps3 and it was not made by Zipper? Just leave Socom out if you don't know anything about it.

Because, regardless of developer, it was still a Socom title and--at least at launch--it was a piece of shit.

Also, the series had several iterations on PSP, and they were also all flops.

All current signs point to "decline", so hopefully Zipper can bring things back to life.

[Toschi2222]

First of all, I would consider myself somewhat a PS3 fanboy but you guys had some great points why the PS3 isn't selling as good as the 360 which I never considered myself.
Seems like Microsoft is doing everything right when it comes to marketing and winning new audiences but nevertheless aren't you saddened that you probably won't see a sequel to Alan Wake ever? To build only on those four established franchises (Halo, Fable, Forza, GOW) is probably clever but really lame for us long-time gamers. I love those niche games Sony gives us even if they don't sell. That's for me! Therefor I'm happy.
Awesome episode and keep those spreadsheets comming, Shipwreck!


Shipwreck: You are right to point to diminishing returns of sequels on the PS3 - that's a very valid point and innovation would certainly behoove them. But, trying to figure out what games will be a "system seller" seems pointless at this point in a console's lifespan. What new 360 exclusives do you think will attract new users? Their big exclusive this year is Gears of War 3 - which will sell great to people who bought a 360 already for Gears 1 or 2 and the like - but probably not move many new consoles. The reason MS has been moving so many consoles so well is A) their back catalog, B) Kinect (which is smartly marketed) and C) RRODs. What new Wii games will sell the Wii? the PSP? the DS? I really don't think that there is a single upcoming "core demographic" game that will create new users on any of these systems.

Great point! "Systemseller" are starting to die off. A friend of mine got himself a new 360 and he doesn't even care what comes out this year. He has a massive backlog and those games are so darn cheap. Why even bother with those upcoming games when you're new to the gaming-scene (yeah, a really HOT scene).

[isofan1]

Shipwreck you sound like a fucking idiot on this episode. I'm sorry to say that because I really like you but you sound like a moron saying Sony shouldn't make games like Socom, MAG, etc and bow down to games like COD. What do you want from Sony? To stop making games altogether? Another thing all of these games AREN'T BY SONY some of these are 3rd party exclusives. I don't understand the CAG cast anymore, you shit on all of the PS3 exclusives yet you take a look across at 360 where you have nothing coming out of MS and Nintendo where it's all about relreleasing the same games with the same characters every year.

Last thing EVERY GAME DOESNT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH COD. That is a terrible fucking argument shipwreck, because guess what NO FUCKING GAME CAN COMPETE WITH COD. I'm done listening to this show, sorry but ship youre an idiot. Your argument was piss poor awful.

What do you want from the industry ship? Same old bullshit and rehashed games? You want a million COD's and clones? Fable 34? Halo 23? I don't understand what you want from Sony? They've constsitedly come out with new and fresh games year after year where as the competition is okay with giving nothing new.

I've never cared to comment on the show but ship's poor argument caused me to

[TG_Antifire]

Because, regardless of developer, it was still a Socom title and--at least at launch--it was a piece of shit.

Also, the series had several iterations on PSP, and they were also all flops.

All current signs point to "decline", so hopefully Zipper can bring things back to life.

Anything on the psp doesn't sell and it does matter who makes it because Zipper would't release a broken game and take a year to fix it and then want to charge for DLC.

[jkam]

Thanks for another great episode. It's amazing how people don't really understand what an opinion is and that you are allowed to have them. Then again it seems as if people just really love to bitch.

I'm in for some ASS as well.

[Manloi]

It was a great show.

I agree with Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck about the PS3. They never really update their UI and other possible options update.

I play games on Xbox 360 by using a 16: 10 monitor.

My monitor does not capable of doing 1:1 ratio scaling.

Since xbox 360 does it, I buy xbox 360 to play it.

However, PS3 does not support it what so ever. The community did suggest that they should suppot 16:10 for PC users. That is one of my reasons that I don't PS3 yet.

I really want to uncharted 3, GOW3, and HEAVY rain, etc. But I just don't want to have stretch imagine on my monitor while I play.

Anyway, I agree with what this show indicate. Please update your UI and options capability for different users.

[AwRy108]

Anything on the psp doesn't sell and it does matter who makes it because Zipper would't release a broken game and take a year to fix it and then want to charge for DLC.

You're not saying anything that validates the point you were attempting to make. Zipper-made or not, the Socom series as a whole is on a huge decline due to severe mismanagement and lack of focus for the brand.

[meager]

Five pages of comments already? Wow. After reading all that, I totally for got what I was going to say.

Ship, why does your signature gamercard still have a fathead avatar on it? Shouldn't that have updated a few months ago?

[mclovin77]

Shippy, you got Ghost Trick? It's great.

is it, i was thinking about buying this one and of course the new dragon quest! Maybe i should download the demo....

Stay with your opions, it was a great show.

[TG_Antifire]

You're not saying anything that validates the point you were attempting to make. Zipper-made or not, the Socom series as a whole is on a huge decline due to severe mismanagement and lack of focus for the brand.

Slant Six has made a grand total of three games. Two for the psp and one for the ps3 and psp games do not count as games so they have only made one game in 5 years. I think that matters on who makes the game because they have no experience making games so the best they could do is make a broken game and even when they patched it they fixed some things and ended up breaking other things. Zipper could do a better job with their eyes closed.

[Wombat]

is it, i was thinking about buying this one and of course the new dragon quest! Maybe i should download the demo....

Stay with your opions, it was a great show.

Opinions are like assholes, and this show had three of them ;)

[ZForce915]

Shipwreck you sound like a fucking idiot on this episode. I'm sorry to say that because I really like you but you sound like a moron saying Sony shouldn't make games like Socom, MAG, etc and bow down to games like COD. What do you want from Sony? To stop making games altogether? Another thing all of these games AREN'T BY SONY some of these are 3rd party exclusives. I don't understand the CAG cast anymore, you shit on all of the PS3 exclusives yet you take a look across at 360 where you have nothing coming out of MS and Nintendo where it's all about relreleasing the same games with the same characters every year.

Last thing EVERY GAME DOESNT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH COD. That is a terrible fucking argument shipwreck, because guess what NO FUCKING GAME CAN COMPETE WITH COD. I'm done listening to this show, sorry but ship youre an idiot. Your argument was piss poor awful.

What do you want from the industry ship? Same old bullshit and rehashed games? You want a million COD's and clones? Fable 34? Halo 23? I don't understand what you want from Sony? They've constsitedly come out with new and fresh games year after year where as the competition is okay with giving nothing new.

I've never cared to comment on the show but ship's poor argument caused me to

Contradict much? You want Sony to keep making MAG, Killzone, Socom but bash the idea of Halo 23 and Fable 34 (which in an of itself is such an over the top argument that it is hard to take you seriously).

Every game doesn't have to compete with Call of Duty, but every first person shooter does. If you make a Call of Duty type game, you're competing in that market like it or not.

Sony doesn't have to stop making these games, but needs to make something different because none of the games Shipwreck listed (Uncharted 3 excluded) will sell systems. And this was his point, Sony needs new first party titles that will sell systems.

Now my ideas for selling systems or getting back in mix (because in my opinion they are worlds behind the 360) are:

1) Start bundling a headset with every multiplayer game this year. Take a loss, get so many out there that everyone has one or two. Every PS3 copy of CoD? Includes a headset.

2) Pick a title and push it. Hard. Then pick another title and push that one harder. I need to know what you want me to have even if I don't think I want it.

3) Just get cross game chat finished and give it to everyone. Today.

[Doomtime]

Thanks for another great episode. It's amazing how people don't really understand what an opinion is and that you are allowed to have them. Then again it seems as if people just really love to bitch.

I'm in for some ASS as well.
Agreed. Although I find the butthurt PS3 defenders amusing.

[YoatOverNothing]

Nothing better than people getting all upset about someone else's preferences over video game consoles. You'd think you were talking badly about their children.

When it comes to the PS3...I don't have one and I have no reason to get one at the moment. I don't care about any of the current exclusives and any of the third party games I do care about are already available to me on the 360, so I see no reason to get one.

[AwRy108]

Slant Six has made a grand total of three games. Two for the psp and one for the ps3 and psp games do not count as games so they have only made one game in 5 years. I think that matters on who makes the game because they have no experience making games so the best they could do is make a broken game and even when they patched it they fixed some things and ended up breaking other things. Zipper could do a better job with their eyes closed.

I agree with you; but it still doesn't change the fact that the series is on a steep decline, which means a lot of its original followers have migrated to other series and/or consoles.

[AwRy108]

Opinions are like assholes, and this show had three of them ;)

I hope you weren't referring to my post--the only thing I called you out on was your blind ignorance towards Heavy Rain. :roll:

[shipwreck]

Shipwreck you sound like a fucking idiot on this episode. I'm sorry to say that because I really like you but you sound like a moron saying Sony shouldn't make games like Socom, MAG, etc and bow down to games like COD. What do you want from Sony? To stop making games altogether? Another thing all of these games AREN'T BY SONY some of these are 3rd party exclusives. I don't understand the CAG cast anymore, you shit on all of the PS3 exclusives yet you take a look across at 360 where you have nothing coming out of MS and Nintendo where it's all about relreleasing the same games with the same characters every year.

Last thing EVERY GAME DOESNT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH COD. That is a terrible fucking argument shipwreck, because guess what NO FUCKING GAME CAN COMPETE WITH COD. I'm done listening to this show, sorry but ship youre an idiot. Your argument was piss poor awful.

What do you want from the industry ship? Same old bullshit and rehashed games? You want a million COD's and clones? Fable 34? Halo 23? I don't understand what you want from Sony? They've constsitedly come out with new and fresh games year after year where as the competition is okay with giving nothing new.

I've never cared to comment on the show but ship's poor argument caused me to

Thanks for the comments! Once you calm down, maybe take a little time to notice that a lot of the points you make are the same as the ones I was trying to discuss on the show. A lot of the 2011 exclusives on the PS3 are rehashes. Many of those compete in the same space as Call of Duty (which you admit is tough to compete against). Of those games competing in that space only Killzone has shown positive growth from one release to the next. There was a significant drop in sales between Resistance 1 & 2 and SOCOM has sold less and less with each release dating back to the original game. All I'm saying is maybe some of the huge budgets that are invested in these games that aren't gaining a new audience could be used to pursue a new path. Something Sony could really put some push behind rather than treading water with several okay franchises that are only appealing to current PlayStation 3 owners. And less and less of those owners are buying the sequels. Sony is biding time with their current practices rather than truly attacking the market with some gusto and it's aggravating to watch.

Thanks for listening.

[Wombat]

I hope you weren't referring to my post--the only thing I called you out on was your blind ignorance towards Heavy Rain. :roll:

I was referring to Cheapy, Shippy and myself, not you.

[Kuromimi]

Awesome show guys! I can't wait until next week.

[drew327]

I'm guessing the drop in sales of Motorstorm is because when Motorstorm 1 came out, there was hardly anything available on the PS3, and the idea was fresh. When 2 came out there was a ton of other stuff out.

[Jamafrika]

Long time listener, first time poster.

It's always going to stoke the fire when anybody criticizes the flaws in a console. This is probably due to the fact that most people (or their parents) can only afford one console and probably the reason they become so militant when someone is critical of their choice. I would argue that if the criticism laid towards your chosen console bothers you so much then maybe there's also a little voice in the back of your head nagging you that you've bought the wrong console.

Also I agree with the shots you guys fire at the PS3 and think that the faults and options in the UI should have been sorted by now.

I also agree that the PS3 line up this year is too stale. They don't need a better CoD or a better Fable, they need something new, something we haven't seen before. Please something other than another FPS (but I do love my FPS games). What about a multiplayer spaceship shooter game ala Wing Commander or something we haven't even thought of yet!

Get your shit together Sony!

Before anyone labels me an Xbot, I own only a PS3 and I'm really happy with it, that's probably why I can criticize it and still feel fine about doing so.

Love the show I think it's one of the best podcasts around. I hope my comment makes it into the next show! haha (brown-nosing!)

Jamafrika, UK

[butaneko]

I'm guessing the drop in sales of Motorstorm is because when Motorstorm 1 came out, there was hardly anything available on the PS3, and the idea was fresh. When 2 came out there was a ton of other stuff out.

That and it came bundled with the console for a while -- that's how I got my copy anyway.

[Javery]

I'm about 45 minutes in so far and I agree pretty much with what you guys are saying about the PS3. I've really enjoyed some exclusive games on it (Uncharted, Uncharted 2, God of War 3, that first Ratchet game, etc.) but I almost never play it. It is a great blu-ray player though. Xbox Live is just better. Even the Netflix integration is horrible on PS3 - they couldn't even get that right. Never mind the fact that the continuous updates are annoying and take WAY too long to download and install... Also, the PS3 controller blows but I've never been a fan since the PS1 days...

Finally, I've been harping on this ever since the PS3 came out but the PS3 does not have an internal scaler for 1080i-only TVs. There are Sony branded "HDTVs" that won't display games in HD on the PS3. I want to play Hot Shots Golf, INfamous and a bunch of others but I can't play them in HD which is ridiculous. I never have to think about buying a game for the 360 but for the PS3 I have to do research to even find out of it will display properly. This is an unforgivable flaw, IMO. Some "true HD" system. What a joke.

[dsingh2007]

Hey Wombat, what were you saying about the Ravens before Cheapy started talking over you?

I am a huge Ravens fan but I don't think they can beat the Steelers this week IN Pittsburgh. However if by some miracle they do manage to beat them they will easily go on to win the Superbowl.

My Superbowl pick right now is New England.

Great CAGcast as always!

[thorbahn3]

I ask people why they bought a PS3 every once in awhile and their reasons are either "it has a blu-ray player," or "I like Playstation." meaning they are fans of the brand. Since Blu ray players are cheap now, I think Sony will have a hard time selling the $300 blu ray player that also plays Call of Duty games.

[grognard66]

Man, some Sony fans sure are defensive (I've had one for 4 years, so save the fanboy accusations).

I liked Shipwrecks discussion regarding exclusives and have some observations of my own. I think Sony (and Nintendo) still subscribe to the old philosophy of relying on first and second-party exclusives to sell systems and the large number of exclusives already announced is testament to that.

By contrast, MS has taken a drastically different approach by successfully courting third-parties so that they'll lead development with 360 and possibly have timed DLC exclusives. MS uses their smaller internal development studios and exclusive partnerships primarily on differentiating, tent-pole titles; while Sony and Nintendo believe their first-party studios should fill all the genre check boxes and be the largest sellers in their library.

I think that is the real secret to 360's success this generation. Microsoft's overhead is significantly lower by having fewer studios, risks are lowered because they don't waste early development on titles that don't come together well and third-parties love 360 because they're not competing with first-party titles so much (this is particularly a problem with Wii). While there are certainly benefits as a gamer to Sony having such a large stable of first-party developers, it is hard to justify that economic model - particularly when you look at the time-management issues (delays/feature creep) they've suffered with SOE and Polyphony.

Finally, it's worth noting that Sony always announces titles very early (and then forgets to market them) while MS holds releases close to the vest and announces most just a few months before launch and advertises the hell out of them. At the beginning of every year people say MS doesn't have any good exclusives coming out that coming year and that this will be the year of the PS3 thanks to its exclusives and every year ends with MS exclusives outselling PS3 exclusives 2 or 3:1.

[mrnivek]

So Wombat you go out for cofee with who voices Archer? That is pretty cool, I just noticed that he voices Bob on Bob's Burger and hope he makes a good go of that show. I thought the first episode was pretty funny!

Anyway, I agree with everything CAG discussed about the PS3, I have both a PS3 and Xbox 360 and over and over it comes up short when it comes to convenience for the gamer. I mostly get 360 games so I don't have to wait for the downloads and patches to just be able to start up the game. I also buy movies from time to time to stream and just recently tried to use the Playstation network for a movie. First off the movie was soo choppy that I decided to wait for it to fully download. But by the time it downloaded and I had time to watch it the movie had already expired. I can't believe how slow a paid service is! Never had that problem with Xbox, pay for it, watch it streaming perfectly... I try giving Sony my money but they keep returning a mediocre experience.

[TooMuchCoolness]

PS3 has 20 exclusive games coming out this year. (Check PlayStation Blog for the games) meanwhile 360 has only Gears of Wars 3 and Forza Kinect. Get your facts straight guys

[TooMuchCoolness]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/01/10/ps3-2011-preview-20-exclusive-games/

You can't go wrong with that lineup, fellas

[Curufinwe]

Cheapy's a little confused about what parts of Microsoft produce most of the company's income.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Microsoft-Q1-2011-by-the-numbers-Beats-consensus-but-not-Apple/1288297586

For the the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2011, the Entertainment & Devices division is fourth out of their five divisions:

Q1 2011 Income by Division


Windows & Windows Live: $3.32 billion, up 124 percent from $1.5 billion a year earlier (20 percent growth when adding deferral).
Server & Tools: $1.63 billion, up 32 percent from $1.24 billion a year earlier.
Business: $3.39 billion, up 20 percent from $2.83 billion a year earlier.
Online Services Business: Loss of $560 million, up 17 percent from $477 million loss a year earlier.
Entertainment & Devices: $382 million, up 47 percent from $260 million a year earlier.

[shipwreck]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/01/10/ps3-2011-preview-20-exclusive-games/

You can't go wrong with that lineup, fellas

Strong argument. Thank you for listening attentively.

[Clarke]

What have I been playing all this time on my computer if Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell Conviction, and Metro 2033 are Xbox 360 exclusives?

Naw I'm just messin' with ya.

Oh Wombat.

Oh yeah Super Meat Boy is headed to Mac pretty soon.

[Jazar]

Sad to hear that with the amazing exclusive lineup the PS3 has this year this CAG episode is just a lot of criticism on the console.

[KillerRamen]

I've just started listening... I don't know if I would call LittleBigPlanet a niche title. It sold very well (over 4.5 million according to wikipedia), it's very popular, but it's just not for me. Personally, I prefer platformers like Prinny and Mega Man. The concept of building your own game is neat and I'm sure it's probably going to be very well received, but I'm just to lazy for that.

The demon girl in Prinny 2 is named Etna. I loved Prinny 1, so I can't wait to play the new one!

[ZForce915]

Strong argument. Thank you for listening attentively.

http://www.baka-raptor.com/porn/sarcasm_detector.jpg

[TG_Antifire]

I think that Microsoft delayed Gears of War 3 just so they have something else to talk about at E3 except Kinect. Do they have any exclusive for the hardcore fans in the first half of 2011?

[guardian_owl]

It is a great blu-ray player though. Xbox Live is just better. Even the Netflix integration is horrible on PS3 - they couldn't even get that right.
Are you still using the disc for netflix? I find the PS3 netflix disc-less app completely usable and fine for playing netflix.

Of the 3 of you I would think Wombat would have most enjoyed Demon's Souls, though as I recall, he was the only one not to try it unfortunately.

edit:
Oh, and Archer S1 is quite a funny show, but it hasn't been available on netflix instant watch for awhile, DVD is out and onsale for $13.49 on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Archer-Season-H-Jon-Benjamin/dp/B00475B0G2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295046179&sr=8-1) though.

[Jamafrika]

....

I think that is the real secret to 360's success this generation. Microsoft's overhead is significantly lower by having fewer studios, risks are lowered because they don't waste early development on titles that don't come together well and third-parties love 360 because they're not competing with first-party titles so much (this is particularly a problem with Wii). While there are certainly benefits as a gamer to Sony having such a large stable of first-party developers, it is hard to justify that economic model - particularly when you look at the time-management issues (delays/feature creep) they've suffered with SOE and
Polyphony.

...

At the beginning of every year people say MS doesn't have any good exclusives coming out that coming year and that this will be the year of the PS3 thanks to its exclusives and every year ends with MS exclusives outselling PS3 exclusives 2 or 3:1.

Good point about the overheads. Not to mention Microsoft have got people paying for something (Xbox Live) that Sony do (not as well) for free! But with 3rd party developers beginning to release everything as multi-platform do you not think that long term Sony's in-house studios may help become the differentiator when it comes to late in this generation or the next generation?

Examples I would use to point this out are: Halo that has obviously been a MASSIVE success for the Xbox in terms of a console-seller (can't stand the game myself!) But with the release of Bungie from its contractual agreement with Microsoft it has decided to produce multi-platform games from now on. Also Bioware with Mass Effect 2 and the new "Metal Gear Solid" Raiden game-thing is multiplatform.

I'd balance up your argument that third party developers love the Xbox 360 because of less first party titles by pointing out that companies still develop the games for both Wii and PS3 and I think that your statement is more based on opinion that empirical evidence. And yes it is hard to compete with Nintendo's first party offerings but there are the games out there Just Dance etc. And the same also goes for the PS3. Another point is, it is much cheaper to develop for the Wii (causing this glut of shovel-ware) but third party companies must still make money because they carry producing them!

Also another point I would bring up is that of legacy and longevity that Nintendo have is almost all down to the fact that they have their in-house development. Mario sells games. And though Sony has nothing nearly as iconic as many of the Nintendo characters it still has its own stalwart sellers and resources that it can use. The launch of the Xbox 360 was obviously boosted by the fact that Halo had garnered a huge popularity for its gameplay and multiplayer on the original Xbox. Without a legacy system seller like that for the next incarnation of the Xbox will this effect sales? Because I don't think that a game like Gears or the hardware like Kinect has the popularity on its own to sell the next gen Xbox. I would never like to speculate on this for a few reasons. One is to never discount anyone because the next Xbox could sell well on the fact that its online is done fantastically. Another is that Nintendo could aim for a hardcore market with their next incarnation (they didn't have the money or resources to do it this generation BUT THEY SURE DO NOW!) Or even a Deus Ex Machina event like Apple bringing a console to market. The fun is in the speculation.

On a separate point:

(This next point because of most contributors and two of the CAG team being based in North America I guess. It is by no means meant to be an insult to anyone because all I'm trying to say is that geography makes a difference.)

In terms of the PS3 streaming services here in Britain we get the "Watch On Demand" content of our three biggest TV channels free on the PSN these aren't available on the Xbox 360 which only has Sky Player (which you have to pay extra for). I would equate Sky with ESPN in North America but it has movies and (poor quality) TV shows on top of sports coverage. My point here being that the PS3 service here in the UK is significantly better than the Xbox 360. Also the download times and online multiplayer quality has very little disparity between the two services.

Talking about sales figures as well it's easy to look at the North American market sales numbers. But I would like to point out that worldwide there's not the huge gap between the consoles and their exclusives. Though most podcasts and news stories focus on the North American sales figures obviously being based in North America. I'd also say I'm not trying to diminish the significance of the sales figures, it's obviously a bad thing that they are being outsold quite heavily in what is the largest videogame market in the world (North America).

The question I'd put forward to you and the rest of this forum is:

What would Sony have to change to make their system the more viable option when it comes to someone purchasing a console?

I've got my own ideas but I'm interested in what other people would do. Anyway great post, I love speculating about this kind of stuff and I don't really care what happens so long as it's a win for good videogames and good deal for us the consumers. :D

Now I'm going into a dark room to lie down and rest...

[CaptainJoel]

Good show, guys! Thanks for answering my question, Cheapy!

[H4Y4TO]

Great Show!

[FriskyTanuki]

I don't get Shipwreck's praise of the current Xbox 360 dashboard, as it's a slow, clunky mess of a dashboard that makes it much harder to do anything than it should be. If that's an example of good UI, then Shipwreck has no clue what good UI is. I'd love to see an independent test be done with a random person being pulled off the street without any knowledge of either the Xbox 360 dashboard or XMB to see which interface they could navigate the easiest. I can see some improvements that can be made to the XMB with zero need for a redesign, but the Xbox 360 dashboard has a long way to go before it's a usable interface that accomplishes the things that Microsoft says its system can do. MS promises to fix all of the issues with every update, but usually makes them worse or does nothing at all. At least Wombat acknowledged this issue.

A few of the ads help let you know when there are sales and such, but they are placed on the dashboard in the most confusing places that makes no sense to me. The Deal of the Week is not listed on the Games Marketplace, but the very end of the Spotlight tab. Shouldn't the XBLA release(s) be listed near the front of the Games Marketplace tab and not the end? Though I'd agree that Zeit 2 wasn't exactly released with any advertising on Major Nelson's blog or from Ubisoft, but MS isn't helping their new releases get any attention. I've seen double ads showing up on the Games Marketplace tab and ads for older games that made me wonder whether there was a sale or not, so it can be very confusing to try to decipher why that stuff is where it is.

The XMB is a content-first interface that makes it easy to access my games and videos without hassle while the Xbox 360 dashboard is a service-first interface that puts more emphasis on making all parts of the Xbox Live service accessible to you even if you can't easily get to the content. When I boot up the Xbox 360, I'm taken to the Spotlight tab instead of My Xbox where all of your content is stored. Bring up the mini-dashboard and you see a quick service update of friends online, message, and all that. When I boot up the PS3, it brings me to the Games tab so I can jump right into whatever game is in the PS3 or a PSN game, which forces me to go to the right a few times to see what friends are or on whether I have messages or not. The ads are spread all over the dashboard on Xbox 360 while the ads are contained in the PS Store and the What's New icon under the PSN tab.

The biggest difference that I can tell between me and Cheapy, Shipwreck, and Wombat is that I don't have a friends list full of people that play the hot new multiplayer game all the time. I'd make a wager that on the busiest day that maybe a third or a quarter of the people that are online on my PSN or Xbox Live friends lists are playing the same game, which is usually the week of its release. Any given week, most of the people on either list are playing or doing very different things while online since I'd guess that many of them are autonomous players that don't rely on seeing what everybody else is playing to know what they want to play at that moment, which I can easily tell is what Cheapy is all about. So when I want to play BC2 online, I just play BC2 online without waiting for people to play with, so I don't ever use Live's party system or cross game chat and have no real need for it.

I'd be interested in seeing Microsoft overhaul their social networking features so that I can see everybody on my friends list who has played Bad Company 2 and sort by most recent, which would make it more likely to find people that still own and play it. Right now, I'd have to search every single person's profile individually to find suitable players and I'm not putting that kind of investment in just to find some people to play on the random night that I want to play Bad Company 2. I've fallen into a weird space where I'd have to find the corresponding thread here on CAG to find people to play with and that's kind of a failure for Xbox Live right there. The social networking aspects of Xbox Live are really lacking right now since I can't even pull up a Bad Company 2 page with the list of my friends that have played it, which I can do on Steam with a friends activity feed to what each person's played in the past two weeks along with a page for each game to see who's played the game and played it recently.

There is no one system seller for the PS3 at this point. It's the entire library of exclusives and a price drop that is more of a selling point than any single game could ever be. Each game can appeal to different groups of people, which makes it hard for any single title to be able to pull in everybody. Shipwreck just used an old trolling technique by seeing if each game by itself could be the sole savior of the PS3 rather than thinking that the collective group could be a selling point. If Shipwreck wants to pick a single game, it's more likely to be the likes of the next Call of Duty or Madden that would sell systems to the average person.

They have a ton of developers (Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Sony San Diego, Polyphony Digital, Team Ico, Sony Japan, Zipper Interactive, Media Molecule, Evolution Studios, Sony London, and Guerrilla Games), so of course they're going to work on the stuff they're good at and not just clones of what's hot right now. If you think they need to cut down on the variety and quantity of games, then they should just take a page out of MS's playbook and fire most of their developers because you can't have all of these teams on downtime or working for far too long on their games while waiting for their turn in the Sony release rotation that you think should only have two or three games a year. Microsoft only has a few developers (Lionhead, Rare, 343, and Turn10) and IPs since they've shut down or sold off the rest, so of course they would only have one or two big games a year that they can put all of their marketing money into.

I'm glad that Wombat can recognize that a random NIS America game won't get much marketing, because it's an NIS America game and they spend tons of money on marketing the next Disgaea game. They don't rely on their niche hardcore fans to get the game without much money being spent marketing to them, as they don't rely on posts on the PS Blog, Joystiq, Kotaku, and the many other gaming sites to spread word for them. Nope.

Cheapy has proven that he doesn't know anything about when the PSP2 is going to be revealed. He just says that the next big event is when it'll be revealed, according to his amazing sources, so that he'll eventually be right and can gloat about calling it. Add the XMB redesign rumor and he should never consult this Sony insider again since they've lied to him multiple times.

At least this show was more interesting than the boring game of the year show.

[Mr.GetBig]

I just wanna say as a guy that owns both the ps3 and the 360 you guys are right for me there is really no real incentive for me to go out n buy a ps3 over a 360 one. But what you said about uncharted is also true for people like me who have both or people that are thinking about getting a ps3 this is the only game that really looks intresting to get. Other than that for games that come out on both the 360 seems to always be on top of the ps3 when it comes to how the game plays . And one more thing to say that the reason i got a ps3 in the first place was because i thought at the time the ps3 had better exclusive game but over the last couple of years this has become untrue and it has been sad to see

[IRHari]

Opinions are like assholes, and this show had three of them ;)

3 enormous ones.

[4thHorseman]

Wow. People sure don't pull punches when it comes to stuff like this do they? Great show guys, but I'm going to have to chip in my opinion about Shipwrecks thoughts on PS3 exclusives. But i'll do it in a way that only few have done so in this thread....without insults or rudeness in general.

First Shipwreck, I have to respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Sony's exclusives. I think Sony has tried, and I would argue they have tried more than Microsoft has. Three of the biggest franchises that the 360 has have similar games on the Sony. The Halo, Gears, and Forza each have their respective Killzone, Resistance, and Gran Turismo. Fable is different than anything with it's closest exclusive being Demons Souls, but in the same argument, I would say Microsoft has nothing like Demons Souls. And anyone that has played Demons Souls knows that a game like that is a huge risk considering how frustrating that game is.

Then there are other ones they tried. Infamous mirros Crackdown. Heavy Rain is like no other 360 exclusive, the 360 has no exclusive similar to God of War, no game like Little Big Planet or it's racing version Modnation Racers, and Uncharted is...well...it's Uncharted. The only thing that the 360 has in terms of being on the same level of that would have been Mass Effect, and that's no longer an exclusive. And the same works with Metal Gear Solid and it no longer being an exclusive for PS3 with Rising...eventually...coming to the 360.

So I'm just curious on what risk the 360 takes that would be on par with experiments like Demons Souls, Heavy Rain, or Little Big Planet. Those are niche's, but those are niche's that were never guaranteed successes. I don't see how you can argue that sony is just rehashing their same games but not complain about another Halo or Gears game. I think when some of these people call you out as 360 fanboys, it's because it doesn't appear that you compare them on similar levels.

As for putting out the same FPS's and whatnot, you can't really blame them. FPS's are probably the most popular genre out there. All they need is really one big hit and there's probably a better chance that with some marketing, a FPS is an easier sell than any genre. So with as many FPS fans there are, it's obvious both companies are going to put out more FPS games. 360 is guilty of this too with other games like FEAR, Prey, and Metro 2033.

Overall though, yes, there are a ton of rehashes. But if those games are great, I don't see why it's frowned upon. And unless you complain about the 360 doing the same with Gears, Halo, and others; you will continue to have the Sony fanboys come out of the woodworks and attack you.

As for the "system seller" talk, I would argue that the only system seller on either system would be Halo. PS3 has yet to find one IMO.

So that's probably the longest post I've ever made on this site, but hopefully it wasn't too terrible to read and you don't feel it as a blatant attack on your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you went off on that rant, it came off more as you were stating fact.

Just wanted to throw in my thoughts on that subject. Still love ya Ship!

EDIT: Some of the examples I listed may be wrong, but I was going off the top of my head. So if I was wrong when comparing games or saying one system didn't have something that they did, I apologize for my ignorance.

[iwannadie]

Great show, only now I feel like my ps3 is the VHS of interfaces when I use it, I was kinda happy being in the dark on that one having never used a 360 before.

Can we put big macs in wombats (http://www.wombania.com/wombie_images/wombat-day-cake-2009.jpg) fudge, he seemed to be on a mcdonalds kick the whole show.

[Just-Joe]

Great show as always, I really liked the PS3 argument. As of now my PS3 serves as my blu-ray player and Netflix and that's because of the HDMI. I've looked at the list of games coming out, and aside from 2 games (Uncharted and Twisted Metal and even that I'm a bit wary of) I just don't care about any of these exclusive.

[Jinchuriki]

Amazing to hear your disappointments about the PS3 on this episode. The only thing ps3 needs is cross game voice chat. The dashboard who cares, people mainly play games, and Netflix. Download speeds have improved drastically.

[Kfoster1979]

I got one.... Its a fucking console shut the fuck up fanboi's. Play what you like and who gives a shit. How in the hell do people get so enraged over the fact that the guys find the PS3 the little brother of this generation. Honeslty someone tell me how can, what I assume are, rational thinking people get pissed over a brand? I don't even defend the company I work for that much and fuck they pay me. Can anyone tell me how there life is adversely effected because Cheapy prefers his Xbox over the PS3? Guys they all are soul less corporations who don't give a crap about you, so why and the hell do you care about them like it was your fucking family. OK end rant!

Ship I agree, the PS 3 is just trying to win a check box war by saying we have 20 exclusives this year there for we must be the best hahahah.

[jamesdevil]

I know no one will give two shits about my preference/opinion but I was souring on the cagcast for a while now and I think this one was the nail in the coffin. Moving on to Shacknews and their podcast which is superb. Thanks for the laughs over the two years+ I've listened but definitely time for me to move on to a different outlet.

[Toss]

Worst one ever...I thought last week was fine but thus week..blah! An irritable/irritated shipwreck is no good. Too much whinny bitching all around. This was the only show with out a spoiler at the end, that I ever stopped listening to before it was over.

btw does gamestop owe you money Cheapy?

[KingBroly]

Wombat, point of clarification:

They put the NES version of Ghosts n' Goblins back on the Virtual Console after a couple of days. Classic Capcom said, Nintendo said. They got caught.

Marvel vs Capcom 3's DLC is going to be characters, not costumes. A lot of characters, too. 2 of which are already confirmed to be on the disc that are part of the Special Edition.

[Zen Rukasu]

So all three of you "prefer" the 360 right? Is that the general consensus?

So unless you were trying otherwise, you automatically sound bias right?

I don't understand what's wrong with opinions. All the points make perfect sense.

[davucini]

Since Shipwrecks argument is strictly financial, i would like to add to the conversation. This is not about what consoles sell but as to why actually sells consoles

Shipwreck keeps telling us that none of the console exclusives are system sellers, which is true, but that is because most console exclusives, on any console, just by themselves aren't system sellers. looking through the NPD numbers for the past few years, there are only a handful of games that they themselves have caused a spike in system sales for that month, even less of those games are exclusives.

North American Console sales typically follow the same trend year after year, January and February starts off a bit higher than the following months, this is because after christmas, many video game buyers didnt get the console they wanted and instead have money, giftcards, etc. so they spend it on Video Games and consoles they didn't get during the holidays, this is the same for both consoles

Then after March the numbers shrink significantly until about September or October. Then the sales rise up again in Novermber and in December the sales Spike even more. Here we should note that many of the triple a titles come out during the last 3 or 4 months of the year and that also influences the spike, but since it is a bunch of games, no one game can really be statistically considered a system seller unless there is no doubt that one game caused the jump, not just the holiday season or motivation to buy.

Now to find what are real system sellers we need to see what bucks the trend and causes a significant spike where there should not be one. If it is a Console exclusive one would expect a jump in the sales of just one console and not both the 360 and the ps3.

At this point i would like to point out 2 titles that on a yearly basis can be considered somewhat system sellers because every year that month sees a sales jump for consoles. Those 2 games are Madden in the USA and Fifa Internationally.

OK so now lets examine the chart and see which games are system sellers

2007 September there is 527k xbox360s sold, double the previous months total, the reason is Halo 3, the first true system seller of the high def generation. PS3 in 2007 has no anomalies

2008 - Xbox follows the standard trend, June PS3 sells 405k becuase of MGS4, the second game to be a system seller. In April GTA4 comes out, but even though it is a huge hit it doesnt move consoles becuase April and May consoles sales dont spike, not a system seller. November GearsoW2 comes out, 360 sales do a bit more than double from the previous month, but ps3 sales almost double too with no real exclusive so Gears is a semi system seller, but i would attribute the holiday season being the reason why gears and consoles sold so well not that gears significantly drove up the sales of the console.

2009- September sony sells half a million, but that is due to no game, but rather the price cut. Same month ODST spikes 360 sales, November Modern warfare 2 comes out, and is 3rd and 4th legitimate system seller.

2010 - Febuary sells 100k more xboxs that January, is it becuase of ME2? no, because the Ps3 also sells 100k more than the previous month with no ME2 type release for it. March God of War 3 is the number 1 selling game but does not effect system sales. Red Dead drives sales for both consoles, 5th system seller. Halo reach is the 6th, And Black Ops is the 7th system seller. One might argue the kinect being a system seller but that would be a product of stellar marketing.

so to sum it up, with so many games coming out if we crunch the numbers, there are only 7 games that by themselves, without holidays and a season to buy can be considered system sellers. Of those there are 2 franchises that hold much of it and only one franchise is an exclusive system seller.

Halo - 3 Call of duty - 2 Red Dead 1 Mgs4 1


So out of the hundreds of games and the dozens of exclusives we can see that not that many games can move systems. So What does. 1 peers, 2 marketing. Think back to middle school or elementary. Why did you play whatever you played, genesis or SNes, ps1 or n64, etc. Mainly becuase your friends played them, that way your could identify with a group and feel good, an added plus was that you could borrow games or play each other at the house. some of you might remember that sick to the gut feeling when you got the wrong console, when all your freinds has the SNES and your mom got you a Genesis for your birthday, so you when you went to school and were ostrisized by your friends. Those same dynamics are what causes the sales of a certain console in a certain region, its why in japan nintendo and ps3 are on top, because everyone has it you need to have that too. Its the reason why Cheapy tells Wombat or Shipwreck to but the 360 version, so they can play online. If Live was 100 times better than the PSN but all of cheapy's friends were on the PSN for the majority of the time, cheapy would buy every online multiplat on the ps3. The same dynamic is why the iphone/ipod touch became so popular, first cheapy had one, then shipwreck, then they made fun of wombat's cheap verizon phone so much that he kinda got one when he got his wife an ipod touch.

My first point leads to my second. Marketing, you need good marketing to be able to get those first few million early adopters so they can tell their friends and their friends and so on. Microsoft did that great, first they got a year head start, and they knew how to cater to Americans, so until the dreamcast, they took advantage of the early lead. And now you see how after a video game commercial most of the time you see that white screen and then an animation that turns into the xbox logo, thats marketing. Its not just one game or two but seeing that animation during game commercials after game commercial builds brand recognition. Its like the SATs dog is to bark as video game is to xbox. That along with enhanced content in the games. Only recently has sony caught on, most notably with the AA joker add on, and the AC2 commercial with the PS3 logo at the end.


Lastly i would like to speak on behalf of the value of releasing these exclusives, Sony is not in dire needs to significantly ramp up ps3 sales to make money, but they are trying to sell the software, software sales are where the bulk of the profit is in the Video Game industry. Using a worldwide scope and the same VGchartz we can see that Marketshare worldwide between the xbox and ps3 hardware wise for the last couple of years is pretty even about a third each. So sony and microsoft are pretty much even hardware wise. So lets look as to why they are releasing these games, to sell software and make a profit.

First lets talk about the games like Ar tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel, Hyperdimension Neptunia, and Yakuza these games are developed for japan, where they will be big hits, so since sony has already spent most of the development money on the game, it will cost a few hundred thousand to localize it, so even if the niche market for these games is as small as 50k to 100k throughout the lifetime of the game here in the USA, it still make a healthy profit vs. extra cost.

Second i would like to tell you why resistance 3 and sequels like this are planned even though the second games make less than the first. the first reason is becuase the games are easier to make the second time around, tweaking a game engine and programming code is much cheaper then buidling it from scratch. so development costs are signifganly reduced. Second, even though resistane 2 sold less, world wide it is still a 2 million seller. conserivately guessing each game sells for an average of 40 dollars after factoring in sales in store during the latter part of the game lifespan its still over 80 million gross. Also when a sequel comes out, many people who havent played the orignals also buy the previous ones so it boost sales again. So if you look at internationally it makes sense to release most of the sequels on the list.


lastly i would like to tell you why infamous 2 is being made, becuase the first one is a million seller in the US, and 2 million seller world wide, and because the game was awesome. :D

Source NPD Figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2007_sales_figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2008_sales_figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/index.php?title=NPD_2009_sales_figures&oldid=11419
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2010_sales_figures
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/13108/infamous/
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/15255/resistance-2/

[Goemar]

I've not heard the podcast yet so I'll probably change this comment or something afterwards but being an owner of all 3 consoles this sudden view that the PS3's line-up for 2011 is bad is rather odd. I mean yes Killzone 3, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Little Big Planet 2, Resistance 3 and Motorstorm 3 are all just sequels but I can hardly see how complaining about sequels to such great games (minus Little Big Planet as the physics just ruin that one) is a bad thing.

I also don't see how a number added to the end stops the game from being a system seller. I know a few people who had no interest in Uncharted but had their heads turned by the sequel. And I seriously doubt people picked up Killzone 2 because they enjoyed the first one (which was god awful).

Not to mention that Twisted Metal and The Last Guardian are rolling out this year. In all honesty it was the 360 I had concerns for when it comes to 2011 exclusives and now I'm just confused...

[Dr Mario Kart]

You're overestimating the capacity for any game to be a "system seller". By the time a game comes out, any bump in hardware against the backdrop of the existing base is going to be negligible. The hardware was all bought previously and its difficult to parse out exactly what game in the library the system was bought for. Nearly every game ever sells predominantly to the existing base.

You only get a couple of runaway system sellers a generation. Monster Hunter series for PSP. Wii Sports. Dance Central in the case of Kinect.

I think you should consider the possibility that there is no changing course this cycle. No increase in the amount of hardware is going to change the development situation, even if/when they pull ahead of 360 marginally worldwide. The game or suites of games that you are looking for to salvage the PS3 does not exist. The foothold that Live has in the US nearly makes the titles irrelevant. You're going to buy the system that all your friends have so you can play with them.

The potential buyers for PS3 going forward may simply not exist. The people already in the gaming market likely have one or two machines from Sony's competitors. New people to the market are faced with two $200 options, one that is heavily focused on local multiplayer, and one that is heavily focused on online multiplayer - both cases they'll find that they'll have plenty of friends to play with that have already made the jump.

PS3 is essentially - doomed. I've always thought that there isnt room for 3 major hardware players in the marketplace. The development base as well as the userbase are too divided.

If they cant draw either existing users or future users away from either Wii or 360, then selling loads of software to the base isnt a bad deal. I'm sure PS3 owners dont mind one bit. Making money on software isnt a terrible way to pass time while prepping the next hardware cycle. Taking additional financial losses to get PS3 hardware out there on the cheap is just not worth it. Whether or not their respective install bases are growing, 360 and Wii userbases are also getting loads of software thats relevant to them. Gamers are doing pretty well, regardless of the financial health of the companies involved and the sustainability of the business model.
___________
Alternatively:

2012 IS THE YEAR OF THE PS3. 10 YEAR CYCLE

[Jazar]

So all three of you "prefer" the 360 right? Is that the general consensus?

So unless you were trying otherwise, you automatically sound bias right?

I don't understand what's wrong with opinions. All the points make perfect sense.


I'm just tired of hearing the same complaints year after year after year after year. I like the guys when they talk about what games they've been enjoying and why. Not when they try to diagnose and solve the industry's problems.

[MaskedPlague]

In the interest of equal time, please rundown the list of 360 exclusives. It should only take 5 minutes.

I would argue Kinect is the only exclusive 360 system seller at this point. It's a good one though.

[kingkiller33]

I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.

Wombat, I don't consider myself a PS3 fanboy either. I actually own both systems and see pros and cons in both consoles. I never claimed that you hate the PS3 system simply because Heavy Rain wasn't to your liking.

My frustration boiled over last Cagcast because I honestly couldn't recall one time outside Uncharted 2 that you guys praised a PS3 game. Exclusives are often ignored, not talked about, and you guys always play non-exclusives only on Xbox even if the game is superior on PS3 (Ex. Dragon Age) Then came the 2010 picks where finally the PS3 can get some recognition and it was only GOW3, a game that didn't blow Cheapy away.

I just want to see opinions balanced out more between the two consoles and at least play the PS3 exclusives. You guys did say the PS3 has great games so I'm satisfied now. :)

[ZForce915]

In the interest of equal time, please rundown the list of 360 exclusives. It should only take 5 minutes.

I would argue Kinect is the only exclusive 360 system seller at this point. It's a good one though.

That isn't the point. The 360 has nothing to prove.

[gepet0]

You guys were spot on with the Ps3. I love the Ps3 and hope it succeeds. IMO the initial price point tanks the ps3 future. At 500 - 600 dollars people expect more. They should have ditched the blue ray until it was more affordable and included a DVD.

At the affordable price point fans would have move over instead of take a wait and see. They would still be the king today. Sony has no one to blame but themselves and they blamed Ken Kutaragi for the collapse.

Years later does the inclusion of blue ray make that much of a difference in games besides storage capacity? The key words being that much.

[HustlerKid]

That isn't the point. The 360 has nothing to prove.

And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.

[Curufinwe]

I don't get Shipwreck's praise of the current Xbox 360 dashboard, as it's a slow, clunky mess of a dashboard that makes it much harder to do anything than it should be. If that's an example of good UI, then Shipwreck has no clue what good UI is. I'd love to see an independent test be done with a random person being pulled off the street without any knowledge of either the Xbox 360 dashboard or XMB to see which interface they could navigate the easiest. I can see some improvements that can be made to the XMB with zero need for a redesign, but the Xbox 360 dashboard has a long way to go before it's a usable interface that accomplishes the things that Microsoft says its system can do. MS promises to fix all of the issues with every update, but usually makes them worse or does nothing at all. At least Wombat acknowledged this issue.

A few of the ads help let you know when there are sales and such, but they are placed on the dashboard in the most confusing places that makes no sense to me. The Deal of the Week is not listed on the Games Marketplace, but the very end of the Spotlight tab. Shouldn't the XBLA release(s) be listed near the front of the Games Marketplace tab and not the end? Though I'd agree that Zeit 2 wasn't exactly released with any advertising on Major Nelson's blog or from Ubisoft, but MS isn't helping their new releases get any attention. I've seen double ads showing up on the Games Marketplace tab and ads for older games that made me wonder whether there was a sale or not, so it can be very confusing to try to decipher why that stuff is where it is.

The XMB is a content-first interface that makes it easy to access my games and videos without hassle while the Xbox 360 dashboard is a service-first interface that puts more emphasis on making all parts of the Xbox Live service accessible to you even if you can't easily get to the content. When I boot up the Xbox 360, I'm taken to the Spotlight tab instead of My Xbox where all of your content is stored. Bring up the mini-dashboard and you see a quick service update of friends online, message, and all that. When I boot up the PS3, it brings me to the Games tab so I can jump right into whatever game is in the PS3 or a PSN game, which forces me to go to the right a few times to see what friends are or on whether I have messages or not. The ads are spread all over the dashboard on Xbox 360 while the ads are contained in the PS Store and the What's New icon under the PSN tab.

Well said. :applause:

Cheapy has proven that he doesn't know anything about when the PSP2 is going to be revealed. He just says that the next big event is when it'll be revealed, according to his amazing sources, so that he'll eventually be right and can gloat about calling it. Add the XMB redesign rumor and he should never consult this Sony insider again since they've lied to him multiple times.

Ouch. :)

[the_void]

And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.They have Gears 3 and thats all I need :D

[ZForce915]

And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.

Classic deflection. This wasn't a discussion about the 360, it was one about the failings of the PS3. The PS3 needs work and lots of it. If you like and it is the console of your choice then more power to you. I just barely tolerate mine but keep it around because I don't want to be left out on Uncharted 3.

[gokuofheaven]

After that Dreamcast comment I had to finish the podcast to hear the rest of the rubbish.

[HustlerKid]

Classic deflection. This wasn't a discussion about the 360, it was one about the failings of the PS3. The PS3 needs work and lots of it. If you like and it is the console of your choice then more power to you. I just barely tolerate mine but keep it around because I don't want to be left out on Uncharted 3.


Delfection? Nah, you said the 360 has nothing to prove and im saying it does. You avoided my question btw...

I just dont understand how people can create a whole show/discussion on whats wrong with the PS3 and just ignore the flaws and the shitty business tactics of MS and its 360. I have all 3 systems and i tolerate them all just fine, in fact i love em. If you can barely tolerate something then maybe you should get rid of it, that or hope U3 is an amazing game i guess...idk im high

[ShockandAww]

As someone that started off with the Xbox and basically switched to PS3 I can tell you at least from my perspective why I think Xbox outsells PS3.


Release date. Xbox came out well before PS3 and so had that initially huge advantage.
Marketing/lack of games. Sony completely failed when they released the PS3 with no games and a ridiculously high price. That alone was their single biggest mistake. They could have realistically competed but failed out of the gate. It basically gave the Xbox another solid year on the PS3. There was nothing for the PS3 to justify that high price. Did I want Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, and MGS4? Of course, but it's hard to justify spending $4-$500 for a couple of good games. I've already got an Xbox at this point and the PS3 didnt even get Bioshock until much after the Xbox. That for me was the game to own and Xbox had it, PS3 did not.
Perception. Is the online on Xbox better than PS3s? Absolutely. Does that mean that online on PS3 is bad though? NO, it isn't and it's also free. But that doesn't matter, the perception is all that does. Also Sony has absolutely failed to address issues and continues to do so. For example something as stupid as cross game chat. Not a big deal normally, except that the Xbox has it and PS3 doesn't! That alone makes it a huge deal that should have been addressed simply so that it could not be used in the console wars.

Ok so fast forward to 2011. PS3 has the exclusives that people want whether or not the 3 of you think so. All of those quality exclusives coming up? People will want them.

They probably still cant compete though without a price drop. Sony needs to stop reacting and be more proactive. CUT THE PRICE. Then you'd have a system for the same $200 or $250 that the other consoles basically go for but with more and better upcoming games. People would buy that. Especially if they'd do it immediately. It's tax season. Many people will have a nice size check which they annually blow on crap they didnt really need. What they need to think they need is a PS3. Sony can make that happen, but they probably won't. Sigh..

[HustlerKid]

They have Gears 3 and thats all I need :D

Fair enough. Im actually really looking forward to that too, wish they didn't push it back

[Protocol Snow]

The PS3 games I'm interested in are basically all also available on Xbox 360. In the past 3 years, I've pretty much only used my PS3 as a media player, which it's awesome for. It will become a perfect media player once some homebrew software is released allowing region free Blu-ray and universal format compatibility. And speaking of which, now that PS3 security has been cracked open, everybody should be paying attention to the custom firmware and homebrew scene because not only will it exponentially increase the versatility of the PS3, it will sell systems. I guarantee it.

[apathylad]

What's going on in this thread? So much rage!

I'm not business person, so I don't know whether Shipwreck's points would help or hurt Sony even more. They should have given up on the PSP by now, and the Marcus marketing campaign is annoying. One factor that will affect Sony's sales is whether or not the consumer has friends on specific platforms. A friend of mine bought a PS3 because of the peers he interacts with, but that's not something Sony can control.

Wombat was overreacting over last week's "Xbox exclusive" comments. Listeners may have been reiterating the same points, but it wasn't done intentionally to frustrate you guys, because some of us have not have read the previous comments. We're on page 8 of this topic, and I haven't read every single comment yet!

[MCtheK]

So what if they are fan boys, anyways?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you shouldn't accuse someone of being a fan boy, just because they prefer xbox 360 over ps 3.
Both systems are great. It's just an opinion on which is superior to them personally.
I don't know why it would piss you off, unless you are a fan boy yourself.

[usickenme]

The point is Ships "analysis" was rambling and simply not well thought out.

the idea of system-sellers is out of date.


as to the "well everyone can be a fanboy/ have an opinion" argument. That is true, however, when you are the hosts a podcast about games and is supposed to be for gamers, the credibility takes a severe hit when you are one sided. No one is asking to you like everything but many times you guys aren't even informed about non-360 things.

[Jamafrika]

"Worldwide sales figures
Wii – 75.90 million as of 30 September 2010[8]
Xbox 360 – 50 million as of 6 January 2011[30]
PlayStation 3 – 41.6 million as of 30 September 2010[31]"

Source: Wikipedia that oh so reliable source.

People rage and argue about sales figures etc. But when it comes down to it does it really matter? I thought we were in this for the videogames people! I chose to buy a PS3 for Metal Gear Solid 4 and God of War 3.

Obviously no one is doing too poorly in terms of console sales; 41.6 million at the lowest?

The point that should have been emphasised in the podcast is the problem with poor exclusive games for this year. Another lot of paint-by-numbers first person shooters and middle of the road JRPGs. Great... Competition is meant to breed creativity and ingenuity but it seems that all that has been sucked out by design-by-committee and all we're left with is just more of the same. In the end it's gamers that should win out and it's sad that there really hasn't been that much diversity in the top games.

[epicelite]

Dear Cheepy/Wombat/Shipwreck,

Can you give a shoutout to Renegade-X in your next podcast? It is a mod for UT3 that is recreating C&C Renegade.

http://www.renegade-x.com/

Thanks,
Epicelite

[DarkNessBear]

(before listening to this episode)
Ugh stop talking about the PS3 like you aren't 360 biased (especially Ship/Cheapy). Still listening to the last CAGcast and you guys act like PS3 had no exclusives and 360 was the REAL console w/ the exclusive games. When in reality they both had the same amount, maybe PS3 had a little more quality ones.

I havent been a PS3 fanboy in a long time - and every time I hear you guys talk about the PS3 I revert back.

The main thing is not the content of what they say (generally) it's that damn Shipwreck voice!!! Most of you know what I'm talking about. That slightly whiny, sarcastic tone when he talks about ANYTHING PS3 it feels. Even when he is giving praise it still sounds like he's surprised to be giving it praise and giving out charity love. And he talks like it's not an opinion it's 100% fact and he is the clear deciding person to be stating this info.

[Javery]

Shipwreck makes spreadsheets.
Spreadsheets contain facts.
Therefore, Shipwreck is factually correct about the PS3.

Plus, he is the most qualified since he plays about eleventy thousand games a year.

[trip1eX]

360 is ahead because it was released a year early, had Halo and later GoW exclusives and was $200 cheaper at launch.

The $600 price hurt Sony obviously.

What also hurt Sony was the Wii. I think the PS3 lost quite a few mainstream customers the PS2 had to the Wii.

360 got some core PS gamers and some more pc gamers to booster its fanbase.

PS3 was helped by the shtty 360 hardware. OTherwise I think PS3 might have really tanked. AS it is I guess it has outsold the original Xbox so it's not a total loss.

Also for all the sky is falling PS3 talk, it is about even with the 360 in worldwide sales. And that's with it launching one year later. MOst likely it will pass the 360 is worldwide sales if it hasn't already.

That would leave the 360 in last place world wide.

Amongst the gaming press and core gamers though in the US it is seemingly #1.

[lethalgorman]

and the xbox has what?

[nateeasy29]

I went out and bought a PS3 after listening to this episode. My 360slim broke and Im bored out of my mind with no games to play. I picked up God of War 3 used at blockbuster for $14.99!

[bredbu]

wow I have not listened to this but i am a total ps3 fan boy so im sure it will offend me 2. For shame cheapy wombat and shipwreck!

sometimes i wish you guys weren't so funny then i wouldn't have to listen to the xbox love.

[Wolfpup]

aside from shipwreck you 2 (cheapy and wombat) do come off like microsoft fanboys. actually listen to the shit you say in your podcasts some thing you nitpick about with the ps3 console and ps4 games youll gloss over or ignore when it comes to xbox games and consooles. just own up to it already and stop denying it. btw cheapy its hard to take your opinion on games seriously anyway when you whine about how if a game is too much of a challenge you dont want to play it and you play most games on easy.

as far as wishing the ps3 was better cmon already i wish xbox had better games and more variety in games. the lack of variety and the instability of the system itself is why i never bought one.

I half agree with you...the "challenge" thing is silly. You don't have to like hard games or getting stuck in them to love games or be knowledgeable about them.

BUT...I was surprised by how silly all three people sounded regarding their Playstation complaints. I was expecting something substantial, and instead it was...

-the menu system? It's personal preference. I like the Playstation's menus a lot more. I liked the original Xbox menu system roughly the same, but the new one is just piles of ads and worthless features. I don't even start on the section I launch a game from. The first time I booted up the NXE I had to hunt all over the place to find anything. Sure I have it memorized now, but no way is that as good as the original tab interface or the XMB IMO.

-Slow downloads? Not for me, they've always been the same speed (and how often am I doing that anyway?)

-"all my friends are there"? Well sure, if your friends are on Xbox. That's nothing to do with the platform.

-"It's the same dash..." So? It needs arbitrary change? Being the same isn't a legitimate complaint.

What is it ACTUALLY missing? Cross game voice chat? Does it not do that? Is that it?

That comment last week on the thread I really didn't buy into...but after this? Yeah, I actually do...that stuff sounds like fanboy stuff.

[Wolfpup]

Another thing...in terms of library, I think I liked the Xbox better overall somewhat, but I like the Playstation 3 better than the Playstation 2...I don't want it to get back to that level because I think it's better now (plus it's the most powerful system this time, and was on the lower half last time).

The main things I don't like about the PS3 are the lack of wired controllers and #1 the lack of backwards compatibility. I certainly don't mind having fewer adds and a more sensibly laid out dash.

[lokizz]

I half agree with you...the "challenge" thing is silly. You don't have to like hard games or getting stuck in them to love games or be knowledgeable about them.

BUT...I was surprised by how silly all three people sounded regarding their Playstation complaints. I was expecting something substantial, and instead it was...

-the menu system? It's personal preference. I like the Playstation's menus a lot more. I liked the original Xbox menu system roughly the same, but the new one is just piles of ads and worthless features. I don't even start on the section I launch a game from. The first time I booted up the NXE I had to hunt all over the place to find anything. Sure I have it memorized now, but no way is that as good as the original tab interface or the XMB IMO.

-Slow downloads? Not for me, they've always been the same speed (and how often am I doing that anyway?)

-"all my friends are there"? Well sure, if your friends are on Xbox. That's nothing to do with the platform.

-"It's the same dash..." So? It needs arbitrary change? Being the same isn't a legitimate complaint.

What is it ACTUALLY missing? Cross game voice chat? Does it not do that? Is that it?

That comment last week on the thread I really didn't buy into...but after this? Yeah, I actually do...that stuff sounds like fanboy stuff.


that cagcast was just a joke. i could imagine major nelson in the background giving them the thumbs up and cheering them on for their loyal service to microsoft. i dont care if someone is biased towards a console but admit it when you are and dont try to feign being open minded about it.

i dont really listen to their podcasts for gaming news anyway the site has plenty of informed and connected people who do way more to keep everyone informed on new things coming out i listen because sometimes theyre entertaining but a whole podcast of them circle jerking to the xbox is a bit much to handle.

[Broo]

Seriously, I love the podcast. I never miss an episode. But honestly, I found Shipwreck's argument against the PS3's 2011 line-up very weak.

First of all, just because these games are exclusive to the PS3, doesn't mean Sony has financed them in any way. Seven of those exclusives are not first party games. These are third party games that happen to be exclusive for PS3. Sony can not tell them what to make.

Secondly, you have to realize and recognize that no matter how hard you want them to be, Sony does not want to be Microsoft. Sony is going to support their system the best way they know how; by developing titles that bolster the line-up and make the console shine. No other console has an Ico, an LBP, or an MLB: The Show. Microsoft does not have a studio like Naughty Dog that can get things out of the 360, like ND can out of the PS3. And if you like arcade racers, not only can you get the better version of NFS: HP, you can also get the Motorstorm franchise.

And besides, I thought we were all gamers here. Don't you guys want to see another Alan Wake? Also MS should have given Crackdown and Fable 3 more time to incubate. Looking at their track record in games, it's quite possible these games would've been handled better under Sony. Microsoft would have never green lit Heavy Rain [quiet, Wombat :) ], MS does not have the DNA to create an LBP, or the talent to make a Shadow of the Colossus. You may not have liked these games, but they were good for the industry.

One final ironic point; On the games front, Sony is more of a global company than Microsoft. Just like you guys complain about the PS3 (much like other western podcasts), there is a Japanese, a German, and an Australian podcast steady second guessing Microsoft.

The die has been cast. The PS3 will not have "better online" than XBox, because that is not where Sony's strength lies. When you fire up these consoles, you know what you're gonna get. So, stop belly aching the three times you fire up your PS3. BTW, the Wii has good games; get out of comfort zone and play some.

[ShockandAww]

There were a couple things that irked me.

One was the talk about the exclusives not being strong enough for PS3 (besides Uncharted and perhaps Killzone). Those are 2 huge games right there but even besides those there is Little Big Planet 2, Infamous 2, Twisted Metal, Resistance 3...and on and on. To pretend that that is part of the problem is ridiculous imo.

The only thing I could agree with there is that there is no exclusive accessible action RPG for PS3. There is no answer to Fable 3. There is of course 2 great RPG type games (Demon's Souls and Tales of Vesperia). Edit: Valkyria Chronicles.

The second thing that irked me with the exclusive talk is that there was no mention of the lack of exclusives for the Xbox. There is Gears and Forza announced so far for 2011. They delayed their biggest game of 2011 for months just to be able to compete in the holiday season. If it was PS3 doing this and only having 2 exclusives I think the 3 of you would be talking about it a lot and bashing the PS3 left and right. Am I wrong?

Anyway I dont care if you like Xbox better. That's fine and it's fine to say it. What isn't fine is to not put the same amount of criticism towards the Xbox for it's faults. That's why you come off as fan boys I think.

[gepet0]

"Worldwide sales figures
Wii – 75.90 million as of 30 September 2010[8]
Xbox 360 – 50 million as of 6 January 2011[30]
PlayStation 3 – 41.6 million as of 30 September 2010[31]"

.

Of the 76 million Wiis how many are getting real play time vs how many are in pawn shops or collecting dust? I like the wii but 10 of my friends have it and they all rarely play it.

I think when it is all over it will be safe to say that the wii will go down in history as the most sold least played system ever to come out. IMO

[DQT]

Haven't listened to it yet but I already love the title. Just nails how overly defensive people can be.

[bingbangboom]

Wombat, Don't know if this was mentioned in the other pages but I can explain why EA had their whole pre-order thing end in this month vs. closer to when the game comes out...

Basically with videogame retailers, they must make projections of what they are going to order months before the game is actually released. Typically this is 2-4 months before the game is released, sometimes with Nintendo it might be earlier just because of demand and limited availability.

What EA did was try to push as many pre-orders early so that they could pad up that number to be ordered by Gamestop and other retailers. They can say they have XXXXX number of games pre-ordered, so if you want to have more copies for your store you have to order a percentage from XXXXX vs. xxx because we have so many pre-orders in already and you will get even more before the game comes out.

Could this process be solved with easier order and fufilment measures? Yes. But it isn't likely. Because videogames cost so much more vs. say movies, they can't just ship out a display pallet with 100 copies because they know they will sell all of them. EA wants to put a bunch of pre-order marketing to get more buzz and actual numbers pre-ordered so they can tell everyone to order more games before the game is released.

Does this suck for most people. Yes. Is it rare to be sold out and cannot find the game anywhere, possibly. Typically it is for a game with not a bunch of marketing, from my own experience we had that issue with Borderlands where for a while everyone was sold out, including Gamestop because the game sold way better than people expected.

Now in turn, when Borderlands 2 (Borderworld) is released people are going to have high expectations for it and the game may not sell as high/fast as the first game which will lead people to say it is a failure. Same thing happened with Bioshock 2. The first game came from nowhere so it was a big surprise for most of the market. People knew Bioshock 2 was coming so it wasn't a surprise hence the lackluster sales. This can be several factors too such as Bioshock 2 being multiplatform which if you look at the sales, if the game was just on Xbox 360 and geared toward that market, it is possible that it would have done the same amount or better in sales than the first game.

But back to the point, pre-orders help retailers decide on quantities to order. It is why you see Epic Mickey having high sales because places like Target, Wal-Mart and especially Toys R Us saw many people pre-order and give the game high buzz because of what it could be and not what it was. Disney is riding a wave of having a hit game that people don't really like. Problem with this is it will be hard to develop a franchise or do ports to HD because it left a bad taste in people's mouth. Ironically best chance is to develop something for DS/3DS because the name would carry over but it is possible that people would rather accept that game/port vs. Epic Mickey 2.

Again, off topic but they want your order early no matter if you can buy it from Best Buy on the same day or after because it helps forecast and get them more money. Its like how now they are pushing Madden 12 just because they know someone would pre-order it and they want counts in by say May for a game coming out in August.

[Plumberboy]

Personally my biggest gripe with the PS3 is the constant system updates - taking up to 40 minutes to play some games after system and game updates are first downloaded then installed is unacceptable. Of the three current gen consoles, my PS3 is played the least by far, hence the reason why there always seems to be a system update which adds to my frustration of even turning on the console.

My second complaint has to be PS3 exclusive titles. Although I purchased my PS3 within the first year of its release, the system seller for me was backwards compatibility (BC) and the future release of God of War. Four years into the consoles life cycle, BC is no longer a factor for me and God of War just hasn't innovated enough to hold my interest. Looking at the upcoming releases, Uncharted 3 is the only game that will have me opening my wallet at or near release.

If the PS3 was my lone console, I'm sure it would be acceptable given its offerings. However being fortunate enough to own an Xbox 360 and Wii, my PS3 is really the odd man out. I'll almost always purchase multi-platform games on the 360 because of the user interface (i.e. the controller and Xbox Live) and my interest in the Wii, and future Nintendo consoles, will continue to be fueled by first party Nintendo games, and a few innovative third party titles.

[Go Skate]

lol yeah man, PS3 fanboys get soo butt hurt about any negative comment made towards Sony. Its just 3 people telling us their opinions on which console they prefer and why. You cant tell people they're wrong for not liking a game like little big planet or whatever.

[Das_Regal]

I don't see why firmware updates, installs, and download times are actually a good reason to dislike a platform. They really only take up a minuscule amount of time. At best they delay instant gratification a tad, but to judge an entire platform based on that is just kind of silly (especially when firmware updates occur in order to add features to the console, something that is in your favor).

I also don't understand complaints about the XMB. People say it's confusing to use: is it confusing because you owned Xbox 360 first and then got your PS3 so you're unfamiliar with one and familiar with the other (kind of like how it's always harder to learn a second language) or is it actually unwieldly? This is especially an especially noticeable issue with their criticism when you consider that people who think the Xbox 360 is superior use it more often so that's always going to seem more familiar and easy to use for them.

I can give you a whole lot of examples where the Dashboard and XMB differ and the XMB wins as well. I can find my billing information and delete it right there on the console without nothing anything, just by going to account management. It isn't even possible to delete billing information directly from your Xbox 360 (which is different from canceling subscriptions which is also buried in confusing places), they make you go online to do it on purpose to try and make it difficult for you to stop paying them.

Live is better for social features. Things like cross-game chat, and your ability to access information about your friends is much better implemented. But you also have to pay for live. Pretending that one is clearly better than the other is silly.

And lets ask a very basic question here. What does Xbox 360 have coming out this year as an exclusive? Gears of War 3 and Forza 4 are the only ones I know of. Torchlight and Breach are exclusive to XBLA.

Sony has Little Big Planet 2, Killzone 3, Resistance 2, Sorcery, Heroes on the Move, SOCOM 4, Uncharted 3, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Shadow of the Colossus/Ico collection, The Last Guardian, and that's just off the top of my head. We will also get access to Dead Space: Extraction, and PSN exclusives include: Modern Combat: Domination and Journey.

While I agree that XBLA and PSN releases are quite on par (the only reason I still have my 360 at this point is arcade games), retail is looking extremely anemic.

I haven't tried Kinetic, so I don't know if it's better than Move. Sales only indicate marketability, and I think it's pretty obvious that Kinetic wins that fight. Xbox 360 this year is basically hanging its hat on mass-market appeal, while leaving core gamers in the dust. That may make the 360 a more successful platform, but I don't play games in order to reward companies that are good at appealing to a wide audience and making money: I play games to have fun.

I'd contend that there Sony wins: Playstation 3 is better for the core demographic.

[Nero514]

I heard two jews and a ginger were talking out of there asses about the ps3 had a feeling it was a cagcast just kidding guys. Though You were very negative against the ps3 you had your points, but some of boatcrashs points fell kinda flat like the argument on the exclusives. Other things like wombat suggesting that the ps3 maybe needing a fable like rpg I agree with,and sure you guys are biased some of you more than the others,but I enjoy your discussions and your biasness is what makes this the cagcast. keep up the good work guys.

[Blackout]

This show was a trainwreck. This felt like a podcast from 2007, with the same tired arguments as to why the PS3 needs "saving". Shipwreck's entire analysis was just...dumb. It basically broke down that if X game isn't a bona fide system seller and outselling Call of Duty, Sony needs to immediately abandon X game and make some new IPs. Suggesting that a) In the system’s 5th year, Sony can or should just abandon its established exclusives on the PS3 and create/find entirely new ones, b) Sony should stop releasing any sort of game that can compete with Call of Duty and that c) If a PS3 game cannot sell more than the 12 million copies that Black Ops did, Sony needs to scrap it and make some new games, is downright stupid. A game like Socom is not competing with Call of Duty. It's not even the same type of game. For a guy that plays about 5,000 games per year, you’d think Shipwreck could tell the difference. They're two totally different markets. Resistance is also not competing with Call of Duty. If it’s competing with anything, it’s going against the sci-fi games like Halo and Gears. It’s getting its ass whooped in that fight, but it’s trying.

Why would Sony just abandon a flagship series like Resistance? That makes absolutely no sense. Resistance 2 didn't sell as well as it should have because in November 2008 when it released, it had to go up against Gears 2, and Call of Duty 4. What did Resistance 1 have to compete against? Genji? Sony released R2 at a terrible time. That's not an indication that Sony needs to scrap the Resistance series, but map out a better release schedule, and do better marketing. Shipwreck, you said that Microsoft has moved on from "numerous" games/series, and that's something that Sony needs to do. Now "numerous" implies a lot of games they did this for, yet you failed to name anything besides maybe Crackdown. I can't think of "numerous" games Microsoft left on the wayside. I can think of a few, but not "numerous". If you look at Sony's home consoles from the PS1 to the PS3, Sony has consistently put out new games, new franchises, and new exclusives. At least they make some attempt to put new games out there. I find it ironic that Shipwreck kept saying the PS3 needs fresh ideas, and then doesn't say anything when Wombat points out all the 360 has is Gears/Halo/Fable/Forza. Every E3, all Microsoft shows off is the above mentioned games, along with a Call of Duty map pack. It's beyond stale at this point, and quite frankly, boring. Don’t get me wrong. I love those games. But Microsoft seriously needs to start planning some new exclusives and franchises sooner rather than later. They need to start taking some chances on some new stuff, otherwise it’s going to bite them in the ass in a few years.

You guys said the PS3 has no game to match Fable. That’s true. However, both systems have something you won't be able to find on the other. The 360 has no game to match the Uncharted series, and it never will. I just can imagine seeing that type of game on the 360. The 360 also has no game to match the Ratchet and Clank series. I'm not saying that Ratchet is the be all end all, but the 360 has no platformers. Don’t say Banjo Nuts & Bolts, because that game is a joke. I only bring up this point because Microsoft purchased Rare, the king of platformers, and have failed to utilize them. What was the point of buying them? To make them develop shitty Kinect games? Rare has the ability to create 3-4 new platforming games/mascots for them, yet they haven't done so. It makes no sense. I really wish they would put out games like that, because they have the ability to do so. It's really disappointing. Microsoft has the ability to push new game titles, yet they continue to ride the Halo and Gears train. Alan Wake was a step in the right direction. Now, they need to continue in that direction.

The fact is, there are maybe 1 or 2 exclusive system sellers this generation, if even that. When you ask someone why they want a PS3 or 360, the answer is Call of Duty. 10/10 times, it's Call of Duty. Maybe Grand Theft Auto, but there hasn't been a new release for a few years now. Everything is about multiplatform now. People are buying new game systems for Call of Duty. Plain and simple. Microsoft has done the smart thing of marketing the game as a 360 title. Sony will not be able to undo the damage of the first few years of the system’s life. They fucked up badly, and quite frankly won’t be able to recover and relive the glory days of the PS1 or PS2.

The PS3 exclusives like Killzone 3, Resistance 3, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Little Big Planet 2, and Twisted Metal are their big games this year. The other stuff is supplementary, and I'm sure more games will be announced as 2011 rolls on. I'm not saying I'm buying each one of them, but that's a pretty damn good lineup. In fact, it’s a fantastic line up. Sony's problem is that they just don't know how to market their games properly. I completely disagree with Ship's assessment that Kevin Butler needs to go, etc. I think he's done a great job of revamping their image, and a lot of non-gamers that know I'm a gamer talk to me about the commercials. They love them. Sony’s image today is drastically more positive than it was around 2006-2008, due to the system relaunch and those Kevin Butler commercials. The games to sell the systems are there. There is no reason why system sales should be down, or why their games should’t be reaching 3-6 million sales each either. I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of their games. They're marketing department just completely sucks. Microsoft just seems to market everything better, especially their XBLA games. XBLA are one of the center pieces of the system, while PSN games are kind of just there. Sony needs to market their exclusives like they’re the second coming of Christ. Push it hard and long.

As far as the PS3's online capabilities go, you guys can stop using the lame argument that Xbox Live is so much better than PSN. It’s not. Xbox Live is no longer vastly superior to PSN. This isn't 2007 anymore. You guys should stop talking like PSN is still in the stone age, because it’s no longer there. I've been playing games online with the PS3 extensively since 2007. It was completely awful then. For a lot of games, you couldn’t even access your friends list or send invites properly. The difference between then and now is like night and day. I have to roll my eyes every time I hear someone drone on and on about how XBL is better in every way to PSN. At this point, they’re pretty close in terms of quality. I still can't wrap my head around how people justify paying that much money to play multiplayer games. Games are expensive enough. The fact that you need to pay additional money to access features on the disc is ridiculous.

I expect you guys to analyze the 360 and Wii over the next show or two with Ship's fancy spread sheets, but I doubt that's going to happen. I'm not sure why you guys singled out the PS3, unless you plan on doing the same thing for the other systems. I hope to see you guys as hard hitting on the 360 as you were on the PS3. Maybe you guys should just stick with what brought you to the dance (fart and weed jokes) and leave the serious industry analysis to other podcasts. Otherwise, we get episodes like this.

[Das_Regal]

You have to admit though, the numbers don't lie and they show that Nintendo is still making bank off of casuals and Microsoft was pretty smart to tap into that market with Kinect. I think the mistake that both companies are making however is in assuming that casuals are an infinite supply of consumerism that will reap them profits for a long while.

Casuals tend to lose interest in purchasing new products rather fast, they're impressed by new experiences that have that initial wow-factor, but they don't stick around for multiple sequels (as the music genre is starting to notice). Dance games will be the next big bubble to burst. Then what will Kinect and Wii have left?

The brilliance of Move is that it has the accuracy and functionality to be used in hardcore and mainstream titles while Kinect just doesn't have enough precision (plus would be downright silly to play a shooter with for example) and Wii just doesn't have the proper infrastructure (poor online support and graphical capabilities).

What remains to be seen is what Nintendo is going to do in terms of releasing another console, whether or not Microsoft is actually going to push hardcore titles for Kinect (and if those will actually be successful -- I think the technology has the potential, it just hasn't been utilized yet), and how the quality of Sony's software is going to pan out (will the exclusives be good, will they actually do a firmware update for the first time in months that adds across the board functionality of something for all users to further equalizing the experience between Xbox live and PSN).

The obvious way to success for Sony is to release a killer app for Move, add cross game chat to PSN+, and keep expanding the software base. I think they're hoping the sharpshooter attachment and move functionality in Killzone and SOCOM 4 will really sell Move to the hardcore crowd, they are working on crossgame chat (or at least that's what they always say), and they're succeeding in expanding the software base (a lot of games that were single-platform are now becoming multi with their latest sequels, such as Two Worlds 2, Mass Effect 3, Epic Mickey, Dead Space Extraction, No More Heroes etc.).

Interestingly, with the addition of Move Sony has wedged itself between Nintendo and Microsoft: PS3 is in a unique position to steal exclusives from both consoles because they have the power of Xbox 360 with a controller similar to the Wiimote (making ports quite easy).

[Fell Open Ian]

Outside of hardware launch-windows, exclusive AAA games aren't really system sellers so much as they are tipping points.

And if you want to get down to the nitty gritty on hardware then I submit that the 360's ~50% failure rate was a gigantic deterrent to system sales just as was the PS3's $600 price-tag. Once the 360s stopped exploding and the PS3s weren't rivaling a new desktop in price then a shit-ton more people actually started to buy them.

In that light, the Wii was the only sure fire bet as the reliability and price were at a great level at launch and especially when coupled with a new Zelda and them fancy new fangled motion controls.

[gepet0]

Outside of hardware launch-windows, exclusive AAA games aren't really system sellers so much as they are tipping points.

I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game. IMO Everything they said was the truth. This has nothing to do with bashing.

I love the ps3 but for years it sat on the shelf with limited play. The store interface was / is horrible. The past 1 1/2 year has been much better the titles & the downloading was much better but for the first 2 years the download time was rediculous.


Ms has stopped franchises like Mech assualt and I think crimson tide.
I like resistance. In the end we are all winners. I thimk sony needs to put out a controller like the 360 for fps players. IMO the only reason they don't is because of arrogance. Clearly same axis sticks are problematic.

That stops a lot of people from playing certian games on the Ps3.

[bingbangboom]

With the whole PS3 debate, I don't know why someone is defending the PS3 when they didn't attack it at all. If you have listened to the CAGcast, they all own a PS3 and play games for the PS3. They were very honest about the PS3 experience and where they felt it should be after 5 years. Those gripes might not affect you but they do the three and three out of three means that their are odds that other people are going through the same thing. None of them have anything to gain from bashing the PS3 other than smiling as PS3 fanboys rush to it's defense.

What they are saying is that the PS3 should be on par with the Xbox 360 even if they just outright copy them. It is something they have not done period. Just like the 360 got a new relaunch, maybe it is time that the PS3 go through it's own dramatic update and don't just mean the size of the box.

It is like if everyone is saying you smell and you don't smell it... maybe there is something wrong with you? Look at the numbers, 360 is dominating in software sales typically 3/2 to 1. There is no doubt this has to do with Xbox Live. People would rather play multiplayer on that system because of the community and point, period. If it were just for the game itself, there is typically no real difference one way or another.

Could Sony fix this? Yes... will they? Nope. When it comes down to it, Sony is a Japanese company and just like Nintendo, are stuck in its ways of doing things. I bet if it were Sony USA designing the next system we would get more western features to match Xbox Live. Just on the same point, Japanese gamers are not fond of the 360 hence sales there suck. If anything maybe there needs to be two different systems for the different markets or at least a different UI for the different regions?

[ShockandAww]

I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game. IMO Everything they said was the truth. This has nothing to do with bashing.

I love the ps3 but for years it sat on the shelf with limited play. The store interface was / is horrible. The past 1 1/2 year has been much better the titles & the downloading was much better but for the first 2 years the download time was rediculous.


Ms has stopped franchises like Mech assualt and I think crimson tide.
I like resistance. In the end we are all winners. I thimk sony needs to put out a controller like the 360 for fps players. IMO the only reason they don't is because of arrogance. Clearly same axis sticks are problematic.

That stops a lot of people from playing certian games on the Ps3.
A deterrent yes but not as much as the price of the PS3.

Also I forgot to bitch before that half those extra Xbox sales are probably because people had to buy multiple consoles...In fact I think everyone I know besides one person has owned 2 or more Xboxes (not just because of RROD though, and it looks like they fixed that issue finally). I've even owned 2 and I barely play it.

[Fell Open Ian]

I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game.

Well we all buy systems for a game, or rather with a game, but how long does someone having only that game last outside of the hardware launch-window?

If you purchase a system at launch it's usually because you just have to play some game but those that purchase a console further into the cycle may pick-up a full-price release with their shiny new console but most of them quickly turn around and scoop up the now $20-30 other greats that any fence sitter gets to reap the benefits of.

Unless we are talking about the casuals who don't really buy that many games ever no matter when they buy the system.

[Broo]

With the whole PS3 debate, I don't know why someone is defending the PS3 when they didn't attack it at all. If you have listened to the CAGcast, they all own a PS3 and play games for the PS3. They were very honest about the PS3 experience and where they felt it should be after 5 years. Those gripes might not affect you but they do the three and three out of three means that their are odds that other people are going through the same thing. None of them have anything to gain from bashing the PS3 other than smiling as PS3 fanboys rush to it's defense.

What they are saying is that the PS3 should be on par with the Xbox 360 even if they just outright copy them. It is something they have not done period. Just like the 360 got a new relaunch, maybe it is time that the PS3 go through it's own dramatic update and don't just mean the size of the box.

It is like if everyone is saying you smell and you don't smell it... maybe there is something wrong with you? Look at the numbers, 360 is dominating in software sales typically 3/2 to 1. There is no doubt this has to do with Xbox Live. People would rather play multiplayer on that system because of the community and point, period. If it were just for the game itself, there is typically no real difference one way or another.

Could Sony fix this? Yes... will they? Nope. When it comes down to it, Sony is a Japanese company and just like Nintendo, are stuck in its ways of doing things. I bet if it were Sony USA designing the next system we would get more western features to match Xbox Live. Just on the same point, Japanese gamers are not fond of the 360 hence sales there suck. If anything maybe there needs to be two different systems for the different markets or at least a different UI for the different regions?

Sony will not copy Microsoft on the online front. Give that up. XBL is not the only way to do online. If that's the way you like it, fine. There is a place for you. But if you want to play something on the PS3, it has been five years into the console cycle; You know what to expect.

You said it yourself; Sony does it the way the Japanese like it. Why should they stop; For the US market? No, just do not buy a console, hoping it would be something it is not.

We are all more than aware of their host of complains. If they're not happy take it back. If they are simply holding on to the PS3 to give the appearance of being honest, then don't worry about it. Nobody cares. Their views on the PS3 is not why I listen. No one come here for breaking news. I come here because they funny as hell, I like to listen to different outlooks and opinions on video games. But Shipwreck is stretching this old argument thin and now it's going flat. I love the guys, but the topic this week was a rehash.

[gepet0]

A deterrent yes but not as much as the price of the PS3.

Also I forgot to bitch before that half those extra Xbox sales are probably because people had to buy multiple consoles...In fact I think everyone I know besides one person has owned 2 or more Xboxes (not just because of RROD though, and it looks like they fixed that issue finally). I've even owned 2 and I barely play it.


I am convinced if the ps3 dropped at 299-399 the gameing landscape would look totally different. People would overlook the flaws and the developers would have been more committed to pumping out games.

I think we are all in agreement that sony chooseing to promote its blue ray over a cheaper ps3 clearly knocked them off as king of the consoles.


On another note. I was gonna buy Dc online until I heard of the monthly fee. I'll pass. 15 is alot of money. That is 180 a year.

[Mujinator]

Why is everyone hating just cuz they prefer the xbox just because its a better console as a whole

[SuxoR]

You know it's funny I love Sony, but I couldn't find a reason this weekend to get my friend to buy a PS3...I don't think you guys are hating on the PS3 but just telling the truth.

The exclusives aren't there, and for me that wouldn't matter if the online was much better if not just on par with Xbox Live :/

[Jazar]

Regardless if how you feel about the PS3 it's just not good fake radio to talk about the same issues over and over again. Ps3 fans don't want to hear it and 360/Wii fans don't care.

[kingkiller33]

Why is everyone hating just cuz they prefer the xbox just because its a better console as a whole

Because this is a podcast for gamers, not just Xbox gamers. I will go listen to OXM podcast if I want that. My opinion, and apparently a lot of people agree here, is that the PS3 doesn't get a fair shake from the podcast guys especially when they don't even bother to play the PS3 exclusives.

[KillerRamen]

You know it's funny I love Sony, but I couldn't find a reason this weekend to get my friend to buy a PS3...I don't think you guys are hating on the PS3 but just telling the truth.

The exclusives aren't there, and for me that wouldn't matter if the online was much better if not just on par with Xbox Live :/

I feel just the opposite, but I suspect that's because I love SRPGs, RPGs and Action/Adventure games while I really don't care about online games or shooters. Personally, I just don't see hardly any good Xbox 360 exclusives in 2011 and the $60 price tag for Xbox Live still irks me to no end. Of all of the consoles this generation, the Xbox 360 is the one that bothers me the most. Microsoft released a defective product and my launch system died 4-5 times before I finally had to replace it. I had no such problems with my launch PlayStation 3. Every year I have grown more and more disappointed in my Xbox 360 while I've become much more fond of my PlayStation 3.

Honestly, if it wasn't for me getting a free Xbox 360/Kinect from Burger King I probably wouldn't have replaced it and if it wasn't for the Kinect I probably wouldn't have kept it, but that's just me.

I'll pose this question since they went through 20 of PlayStation 3's 2011 Exclusives. What exclusive games are coming out for the Xbox 360 in 2011? I know of Gears of War 3, Forza 4 and Dance Central 2, but what else is there? Of Xbox360Achievement's 20 most anticipated Xbox 360 games 17 of them are available on the PlayStation 3 with an additional game also being available on PC (XCOM). http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news-1946-Our-20-Most-Anticipated-Games-of-2011.html

For 2011, the only Xbox 360 game that I really care about is Dance Central 2 and that's kinda sad. Microsoft needs more exclusive games that aren't shooters and Rare needs to release a new Kameo game or something that doesn't have to do with Avatars... This Avatar bs that they've been delegated to over the past couple of years is ridiculous.

[ThyDarkKnight]

There has never been a single episode of anything that has made me stop watching or listening to something that I previously liked, until now.

[colkdry]

Hey guys

I just wanted to say that i enjoyed the show like every other week and how true your guys comments on the ps3 is

I love my ps3 and i bought it on lunch day and it is my only console, but it still has many many problems with it. (you guys covered them all) especially the install time. Over the years, i started to play less video games because of all the things i have to do to even get the game started.

I just wanted to say i totally agree with you guys on how the ps3 needs to be better. I love the show guys keep it up :D

p.s. looking through the comments of this show is ridiculous. Bashing on your guy's opinions.

[ZForce915]

There has never been a single episode of anything that has made me stop watching or listening to something that I previously liked, until now.

Deal with it and move on.

[HustlerKid]

Why is everyone hating just cuz they prefer the xbox just because its a better console as a whole

wow

[DrMunkee]

Let me say this before anything ; I would have been just as pissed if you spent a whole show ranting about the 360 or the Wii. But here I go...

What the hell was that, guys? I was cool after the first 20 minute rant. The second 20 minute rant pushed it. By the time you starting ranting for the third time, I almost turned the show off. What was the point in all of this? To "critically evaluate" Sony? Bullshit. Sony is doing just fine. The have a solid standing in the US, and they have Japan in the palm of their hands.

By the end of the show, you were criticizing huge games like "Socom 4" and "Twisted Metal". "Why are they making these games", you ask. I can tell you why; because people want them. Trying to guess how well a game is going to sell based on the selling power of a game that came out at the beginning of the PS3 lifespan is just stupid (Socom). Or when the last game was released for the PS2 (Twisted Metal). Come on guys, you are better than this.

I have a theory on why you did this show - To fight back against the whiny PS3 fanboys who criticize you everytime you do not worship their big name releases. I understand, that WOULD get annoying. We all know you all prefer the Xbox, which is cool. You are entitled to your opinion, and labeling you as a "fanboy" just because you have a preference is foolish. But was it necessary to attack back with a full show of sounding like a bunch of PMS'ing ladies? A full spreadsheet, Shipwreck? Really?

Most of us listen to the show to hear about what games you like, mixed in with a little bit of what you don't like. Not a full show of bitching. This is the first show since Shipwreck came on that I can say I would not recommend to a friend.

You guys are still great, but I urge you, for the sake of your listeners, don't spend more than twenty minutes ranting during the next show.

Oh. And I think that this sums up the show quite nicely -

Regardless if how you feel about the PS3 it's just not good fake radio to talk about the same issues over and over again. Ps3 fans don't want to hear it and 360/Wii fans don't care.

Well said, Jazar.

[katzd2007]

In response to shipwreck thinking the PS3 would be bigger this year I'm another person still holding out. I don't need a blu-ray player since I have a roku box that streams HD netflix and even my Wii can stream SD netflix. Even if I did want a blu-ray player I could get an RCA one that streams netflix for under $100 this week. The price is still the killer. I can't justify $300 on a PS3 yet when an xbox is so much cheaper. The best deals are get a free game or $50 gift card but then the price is still $250. I think the sweet spot of $200 or some great bundle would have to make it worth it. It really is all about the $200 price in a bestbuy, target whatnot ad. The move bundle is nice for $400, but I don't want move if I have a Wii. While it is more precise I just want a PS3 for the multi-platform games and the exclusives. (Have you seen Metal Gear Solid 4! It's like $10 used at Gamestop.) So the games are not the problem to restate it really is that it just looks to expensive.

I'm not mad that you singled out the PS3 as well. I'm glad you talk about your opinions with as many Fuck yous, poop jokes, spreadsheets that you want. Once again great show!

Side Question - What games are you still looking forward too that have been announced but not heard form for awhile like Beyond Good and Evil 2. Have you you ever played the original and if not do you plan to buy the HD version on Xbox Live?

[kvadair]

So when PS3 fans complain about your treatment of the PS3 they get two hours of you rationally discussing why you prefer the 360 and what Sony can do to fix it. When PC fans point out you don't even acknowledge our platform of choice exists we get told that the point has already been made now shut up.

Most of the time it's fun to listen to the cagcast for your great incite on the industry, and willingness to speak your mind. That illusion is broken when you stop to wallow in your own ignorance about PC games. For crying out loud, iPhone games get more coverage.

[Broo]

Actually, this thread wouldn't be so active if it wasn't for the fudge. Wombat, just give us fudge and we'll take our ball and go home. Fudge.

[meager]

It's a good thing to criticize things that can be improved on the PS3... on all consoles even. If Sony only hears people say the PS3 is perfect, it becomes stagnant and gets left behind.
If people hadn't complained about the noisy 360s and their high failure rate, Microsoft wouldn't have re-evaluated their system and come out with the much-improved slim model.
The fact that these guys are complaining about the system shows their interest in it and its full potential, unlike the Wii which Cheapy and Wombat have just given up on.

But I'm happy with the PS3's lineup this year. It's really too late for "system sellers." But what they're doing is giving their customers what they want: sequels to hit games. That shows they cater to the audience that's already there. If I was outside looking in on that, I'd want to get a PS3 because they show they can do fan service.

[collipop]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say something regarding the playstation 3 discussion. I have owned both ps3 and 360 from launch and completely agree with cheapy, wombat and ships opinions. When I launch my ps3 it feels completely soulless and everything is just convoluted. I still to this day don't understand where I go to just get demos. Compare this to the 360 and its simply night and day, the dashboard is always changing and feels alive.

Don't let other people stop you from saying what you think.

[Jazar]

It's a good thing to criticize things that can be improved on the PS3... on all consoles even. If Sony only hears people say the PS3 is perfect, it becomes stagnant and gets left behind.


These are the same criticisms that have been stated on the CAGCast for literally years. Trust me Sony knows the complaints on the system. They even have a website dedicated to that: http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/

[DarkNessBear]

(all of this was written in a emotional state/early in the morning/lack of food - thank you):

I'm just in shock about the state of the cagcast now. I've been a listener since episode ~14 and I'm actually thinking of unsubscribing. Can't believe Ship is ranting about how the only reason a game should be created is if it sells tons like a CoD or a Halo. That's why the game industry has been great, is that it is not fully controlled by the # crunchers and the creative minds have a big say in what THEY want to make, even if it doesn't make CoD money.

-talking about sales # across consoles-

Also we all understand that Cheapy and Ship like 360 more than PS3 - but state they wish the PS3 could sell as much as the 360 can. So does that mean the Wii is the best console of them all? And the 360 has sold 51.3M worldwide and PS3 46.6m worldwide. Yea, PS3 needs to be SAVED because it's 5m behind... get real. Then the 360 really needs to be taken off the market because it's not selling the 85 million like the Wii is.

And it's only because we LIVE in America that 360 seems to be doing better, every where else the PS3 is the leader. Goddam CheapyD you live in Japan - it's not even close. And the 360 will win every time here because it's an american console and they know how to market to American customers - that's the ONLY reason it sells better in america. Not because the PS3 doesn't have Gears and Fable..

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say something regarding the playstation 3 discussion. I have owned both ps3 and 360 from launch and completely agree with cheapy, wombat and ships opinions. When I launch my ps3 it feels completely soulless and everything is just convoluted. I still to this day don't understand where I go to just get demos. Compare this to the 360 and its simply night and day, the dashboard is always changing and feels alive.

Don't let other people stop you from saying what you think.
You don't understand where to get demo's? Click the store... and then maybe demo's?

[4thHorseman]

I still to this day don't understand where I go to just get demos. Compare this to the 360 and its simply night and day, the dashboard is always changing and feels alive.

Unless there's something I'm missing...

When you first start up the PSN store....there's a button for "demos" right there. It's not hidden anywhere. Even less clicking then on the 360.

[Jrittmayer]

Great CAGcast as always.

I agree that the CAGcast doesn't have enough Playstation love but you know what? Who cares? They could be trashing every console known to man and it would still be an awesome podcast :D

[Wolfpup]

Now I'm up to the Resistance bashing part of the show.

Random thoughts:
-who cares what these things sell?
-Stuff selling hundreds of thousands of copies in one country is generally a big success anyway...or at least it was last I paid much attention to this

Regarding Resistance specifically:
-The second one is in my backlog, but the first one was the most fun I'd had with a straight FPS in ages. Took Raven in the last year or two to do better IMO. The second one was supposed to have a worse story, and just generally worse single player. That's probably one reason it sold worse. The other, quite obvious reason is the first one has been out forever, and was the best launch title for the system. The second one is having to compete in a much more crowded market.

The series is easily my favorite thing Insomniac has ever done...I most certainly don't want them ending it. It's just sort of strange/a shame Sony didn't lock them up.

And then kind of the same thing about the Xbox...only having four series left or whatever isn't a great thing. I've been a little concerned by how Microsoft has been scaling things back over the last six years.

No more Crackdown isn't a good thing. The first one's a great game, and I want more. The second's in my backlog, and I expect to like it even despite it's apparent worse rehashing. They could do a great third that's a true story sequel to the first. I don't even need better/different gameplay, though that's fine.

It's still the only GTA style game I completely love, that doesn't just make me feel like the open world is pointless. Even Assassin's Creed, which in a lot of ways I feel like is the 'better' game, I still don't entirely like the open world.

Obviously I'm still excited to see how Infamous stacks up. It looks a lot better, and I kind of like how it has more specific super powers, but Crackdown's so good I'm still iffy. (Geez, am I getting up to 3 years behind on that now?)

And where the heck is Rare? They made so many good/solid games, left Nintendo with the IMO completely awesome Starfox Adventures, and then hardly did anything.

I want more platformers! I want more random weird stuff Rare is known for! I do NOT want them wasting time on Miis and Project Shitbox 'games'.

END RANDOM NOT WELL WRITTEN THOUGHTS

[SilverPR]

I was angry when listening the PS3 bashing and Xbox ass licking. But when they made their points straight, I can't disagree they have some points right to critic the PS3 and 360 flaws. But at the end of the day, they sound somewhat bias, because they have the right to have favorites. No matter what the guys say o do, once you critic a camps console, they will go blind on rage and troll without even gaving a chance to listening to reason. It's simple, there are thounsands of podcast out there, unsubscribe if you can't stand the Cagcast and look for new fanboy podcast to fill that time, simple.

[KillerRamen]

...And where the heck is Rare? They made so many good/solid games, left Nintendo with the IMO completely awesome Starfox Adventures, and then hardly did anything.

I want more platformers! I want more random weird stuff Rare is known for! I do NOT want them wasting time on Miis and Project Shitbox 'games'.



I'm in complete agreement about Rare. They've made some of my favorite games in the SNES/N64 years. However, they've been completely mishandled by Microsoft.

Conker: Live and Reloaded was awesome and Kameo was my favorite launch Xbox 360 game, but other than that they have not been allowed to make their games under Microsoft. Microsoft has been so focused by trying to use them to make family friendly games and avatar stuff that they have not been allowed to make the kind of games I have known and love from Rare.

What Microsoft has done to Rare makes me sad. They should let them go nuts, they should not be forced to peddle fake clothes on the Avatar marketplace.

[gepet0]

I'm in complete agreement about Rare. They've made some of my favorite games in the SNES/N64 years. However, they've been completely mishandled by Microsoft.

Conker: Live and Reloaded was awesome and Kameo was my favorite launch Xbox 360 game, but other than that they have not been allowed to make their games under Microsoft. Microsoft has been so focused by trying to use them to make family friendly games and avatar stuff that they have not been allowed to make the kind of games I have known and love from Rare.

What Microsoft has done to Rare makes me sad. They should let them go nuts, they should not be forced to peddle fake clothes on the Avatar marketplace.

I am not sure about this Rare had carte blanche at Ms. I have to fault rare more than Ms. I cannot see Ms not giving rare anything they wanted. By the way I am the only one that liked grabbed by the ghoulies. LOL

[Fell Open Ian]

It's one thing to have a platform preference and it's another thing to be oblivious to the fact that your 360 exclusive of the year isn't platform exclusive to the 360 in 2010 and isn't even console exclusive come 2011.

I know that that is splitting hairs but it really is quite telling of not just a platform preference but of having blinders on when it comes to games which are not on the 360.

It was an oversight and a mistake and totally and completely forgivable but it is also quite detrimental to the cause of buying good games where ever they live simply because they are good games. (especially when the argument could be made in specific regard to Mass Effect 2 being better on the PC due to more powerful hardware and possibly even better on the PS3 due to the use of the Mass Effect 3 engine)

Wax philosophical: This site is about being a smart and well-informed consumer when it comes to video games. On that note you can type 'Mass Effect 2' into the site search and easily see that there are entries for both the PC and the PS3 versions. You don't even have to Google it...just use this very site. You don't think that that oversight is just a wee bit sad?

[shipwreck]

It's one thing to have a platform preference and it's another thing to be oblivious to the fact that your 360 exclusive of the year isn't platform exclusive to the 360 in 2010 and isn't even console exclusive come 2011.

I know that that is splitting hairs but it really is quite telling of not just a platform preference but of having blinders on when it comes to games which are not on the 360.

It was an oversight and a mistake and totally and completely forgivable but it is also quite detrimental to the cause of buying good games where ever they live simply because they are good games. (especially when the argument could be made in specific regard to Mass Effect 2 being better on the PC due to more powerful hardware and possibly even better on the PS3 due to the use of the Mass Effect 3 engine)

Wax philosophical: This site is about being a smart and well-informed consumer when it comes to video games. On that note you can type 'Mass Effect 2' into the site search and easily see that there are entries for both the PC and the PS3 versions. You don't even have to Google it...just use this very site. You don't think that that oversight is just a wee bit sad?

It wasn't an oversight. We don't really play PC games so it doesn't make since to include them in our favorite games of 2010. We've always done the yearly awards based on console exclusivity. In 2010, Mass Effect 2 was a 360 console exclusive and was certainly eligible for our favorite Xbox 360 game. At the end of the day, does it really matter that much? Do you really think I don't know that it was on the PC and is coming out next week for PlayStation 3? Heck, if you even listen to our Favorites of 2010 show I even went out of the way to ask what everyone's favorite Xbox 360 game would be if we disqualified Mass Effect 2.

[Fell Open Ian]

One could argue that the term exclusive negates the qualifier of console placed before it. I know that it's splitting hairs and that it's petty but come on it was day and date on Windows and 360.

My concern is mainly with this being a website based around consumerism which inevitably leads to someone with multiple platforms wanting the best possible version for the least amount of money. Apply that to the fact that PC versions are often the best versions and generally $10 cheaper at release and you can see how it's a concern.

edit: I guess what I'm saying is that if the website is Cheap Ass Gamer then the term gamer in the title should not only apply to the website but also to the podcast. To many there appears to be a disconnect between the website which is a database for many platforms and the podcast which generally showcases mostly one platform while sometimes going as far as to dismiss other current platforms.

While I don't share in the sentiment that you guys are biased nor am I going to stop listening to a podcast which I thoroughly enjoy, I can understand users being disenchanted with a podcast which purports itself to be for all gamers when it's really mostly for 360 gamers and sometimes covers other platforms.

[Nathan_Sama]

You guys said we need a game that people would buy a ps3 for, and an action rpg for the ps3, that game should be Kingdom Hearts 3.

It was 4 years between when Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 came out, and it been FIVE years since kingdom hearts 2 came out. All fans are getting from this series is a bunch of spin off titles that does little to contribute to the MAIN story, and have so little play value to begin with.

I played 358/2 days and was disappointed, and I didn't even finish birth by sleep because I didn't want to play through the game 3 times to know the story. It seems like the other games are just KH1 remakes for handhelds. Why is the development of this game taking so long?

[Gregory_Tea]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the console war.
In my opinion, the three hosts of this show showed complete and utter contempt and disrespect towards the PS3 this episode.
I felt great hurt when comment after comment was slammed into both my earbuds and my psyche.
I wish great misery towards Shipwreck from this point further.
We all know Cheapy is just being Cheapy, and Wombat......well......come on now.......really......
I am a loyal fan, but this episode really enraged my soul.
I felt personal pain that cannot be explained. I never thought of myself as a fanboy, and still don't, but if comments like the ones heard on this episode create such negative emotions capable of mentally crippling me for hours, am I not a fanboy?

[Nathan_Sama]

Does anyone else think Kingdom Hearts 3 would boost sales at this point though?
I know I would buy a ps3 when it comes out, but do you think they lost a lot of their other fans by dabbling too much in the handheld market?

[Chris_GTR1]

great show as always,


it be great if the cagbag and feedback part of the show were longer , its IMO the best part of this show. i find its always getting rushed and only about 3 questions are answered each show :(


anyone that says those 360 exclusives are no longer exclusive because they were on a pc are fanboys just looking to belittle the 360s exclusive lineup.

[K_G]

While some other comments have mentioned it in passing, I think looking at PS3 game sales for the first two years of the system's life isn't the same as looking at current sales due to the relative lack of software for the PS3 during the early stage. This helps explain (along with it being packed in a good number of systems) why Motorstorm's 1 (and others like resistance 1) sales were so large...There simply wasn't a ton of competition and people are going are always going to buy a few games when they've just got a new system (esp. if they wealthy enough to throw down $600-500 for a new system). So Sony's first party games they weren't competing against Black Ops but rather things like Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire. Also many of these games were in the first batch of greatest hits PS3 games that came out a few months before the 40GB model when the PS3 system sales started to climb up, so that also likely pushed their numbers a bit more as well.

Likewise, Sony is also much more a global market to worry about than MS does. I imagine one of the reasons why they are still supporting something like Motorstorm is that is a game that can be sold everywhere with only minor language modifications and isn't going to run into regional issues about violence or content…And looking at the sales data, it appears that Motorstorm does alot better outside the US than in the US.

[blitz6speed]

Its common knowledge that the mods of this site are extremely biased to the 360. Nothing you can do when they've been brainwashed to believe that nothing other then 360 games have any worth. I have a 360, been on xbox live for almost 4 years, ive had a ps3 since launch and ive played the majority of the major online games on both platforms. If you're like most people and play call of duty online, there is absolutely 0 difference.

The thing that seperates them is party chat and the fact that one of them is paid to play online. MS positions itself to be more social, jump online, get in a party with a few people and talk bull while playing games. I think thats idiotic and part of the problem with the Facebook generation right now. I dont need to talk about whatever with others while playing games, im playing a game to play it.

I realize a lot of people value chatting online quite a bit, and thats their choice. Im lucky enough to not be so needy of attention that i have to go online and talk to people i dont know in real life. If i know someone in real life, i call them. Anyway, cheapy is super biased and doesnt hide it. Im sure MS takes care of him very well. They always go out of their way to get site owners to be on their side.

[Chris_GTR1]

Its common knowledge that the mods of this site are extremely biased to the 360. Nothing you can do when they've been brainwashed to believe that nothing other then 360 games have any worth. I have a 360, been on xbox live for almost 4 years, ive had a ps3 since launch and ive played the majority of the major online games on both platforms. If you're like most people and play call of duty online, there is absolutely 0 difference.

The thing that seperates them is party chat and the fact that one of them is paid to play online. MS positions itself to be more social, jump online, get in a party with a few people and talk bull while playing games. I think thats idiotic and part of the problem with the Facebook generation right now. I dont need to talk about whatever with others while playing games, im playing a game to play it.

I realize a lot of people value chatting online quite a bit, and thats their choice. Im lucky enough to not be so needy of attention that i have to go online and talk to people i dont know in real life. If i know someone in real life, i call them. Anyway, cheapy is super biased and doesnt hide it. Im sure MS takes care of him very well. They always go out of their way to get site owners to be on their side.


i see your point and i raise you one argument which is the reason why you dont like party chat feature which is , you dont have many friends in real life with xboxes. i know about 30 people in real life that own xboxes and i keep my friends list only to RL friends so theres always someone online i chat with since they are an actual friend.. your argument about calling someone on the phone is exactly what a ps3 owner would say to make up for the lack of cross game chat. what i just dont get is why theres no voice messages on psn, xbox 1 had voice messages theres just no excuse.



IMO the ps3 is better in almost every way to the 360. lineup , exclusives , hardware and value. however the online just cant be underestimated in todays age and is the only reason why i put up with MS and all there price gouging on live and the marketplace. clearly its too late for sony to implement in game music and cross game chat into the console so sony really needs to step up their game with the ps4 because the way things are going with microsofts direction in the 360 i dont want any part in the xbox 720.

its just what comes with power. we've created a monster and now the thanks we get is 60$ for live and all XBLA games for 15$. i can only imagine how itll be when the 720 comes out.

[yodathe3rd]

Its common knowledge that the mods of this site are extremely biased to the 360. Nothing you can do when they've been brainwashed to believe that nothing other then 360 games have any worth. I have a 360, been on xbox live for almost 4 years, ive had a ps3 since launch and ive played the majority of the major online games on both platforms. If you're like most people and play call of duty online, there is absolutely 0 difference.

The thing that seperates them is party chat and the fact that one of them is paid to play online. MS positions itself to be more social, jump online, get in a party with a few people and talk bull while playing games. I think thats idiotic and part of the problem with the Facebook generation right now. I dont need to talk about whatever with others while playing games, im playing a game to play it.

I realize a lot of people value chatting online quite a bit, and thats their choice. Im lucky enough to not be so needy of attention that i have to go online and talk to people i dont know in real life. If i know someone in real life, i call them. Anyway, cheapy is super biased and doesnt hide it. Im sure MS takes care of him very well. They always go out of their way to get site owners to be on their side.

I agree with what he is saying about all the 360 Bias and i have been listening to the show for a long time now and its usually all about the 360. Ship has been talking about all the Ip's that sony has and how they need to cut down yea maybe they don't all put up Call of Duty numbers but hey news flash not everyone likes call of duty. Battlefield is great game as well you can't consider everything due to the sales you need to look and some of the community as well. The Socom Community is huge and socom 4 will be good and MAG did give the socom people something to play while waiting. I do believe that sony does have some badass titles coming out in 2011.

Xbox owners you have some good games as well i do own both consoles and i have for a long time. But next year they have forza 4, and gears 3 which i hope they fix the multiplayer for gears 3 becuase the issues with gears 2 might push others away. But yes Microsoft will still sell a ton of units and i think Sony will have a really good year killzone 3 will sell like crazy and i think Infamous 2 will be amazing and uncharted 3 will sell some ps3's as well.

[mr_bishiuk]

I think some people need to grow up, just because someone prefers one system over another doesn't mean they are "fanboys"!

All 3 presenters have PS3's (and 360's) and regularly play on them so I think they are well qualified to express an opinion as to wish ecosystem they prefer, can the people calling them names honestly say the same thing or is it fact they who are the "fanboys"?

[mr_bishiuk]

It's one thing to have a platform preference and it's another thing to be oblivious to the fact that your 360 exclusive of the year isn't platform exclusive to the 360 in 2010 and isn't even console exclusive come 2011.

I know that that is splitting hairs but it really is quite telling of not just a platform preference but of having blinders on when it comes to games which are not on the 360.

It was an oversight and a mistake and totally and completely forgivable but it is also quite detrimental to the cause of buying good games where ever they live simply because they are good games. (especially when the argument could be made in specific regard to Mass Effect 2 being better on the PC due to more powerful hardware and possibly even better on the PS3 due to the use of the Mass Effect 3 engine)

Wax philosophical: This site is about being a smart and well-informed consumer when it comes to video games. On that note you can type 'Mass Effect 2' into the site search and easily see that there are entries for both the PC and the PS3 versions. You don't even have to Google it...just use this very site. You don't think that that oversight is just a wee bit sad?

Er not really it's a console focused show and the PS3 version was not out in 2010 however reading this post makes me thing something else is though..

[Paradroid]

... A lot of the 2011 exclusives on the PS3 are rehashes. Many of those compete in the same space as Call of Duty (which you admit is tough to compete against). Of those games competing in that space only Killzone has shown positive growth from one release to the next. There was a significant drop in sales between Resistance 1 & 2 and SOCOM has sold less and less with each release dating back to the original game. All I'm saying is maybe some of the huge budgets that are invested in these games that aren't gaining a new audience could be used to pursue a new path. Something Sony could really put some push behind rather than treading water with several okay franchises that are only appealing to current PlayStation 3 owners. And less and less of those owners are buying the sequels. Sony is biding time with their current practices rather than truly attacking the market with some gusto and it's aggravating to watch.

Your discussion of the PS3 line-up kind of had the opposite effect on me :D I was thinking "Wow, the PS3 is going to have a great year!" It doesnt matter if their games dont sell as much as Call of Duty, as they get a slice of that anyway. In fact I think hega hits like CoD maybe a slight negative for the industry as a whole, as it takes money away from more interesting games (but thats another whole discussion ;)).

Why all the focus on "growth" and "market share" and all that marketing stuff tho? They've sold over 40 million systems world wide ... that's an unqualified success. As long as they keep putting out good games that make a profit then they are being successful. Who cares if they could be doing more to attract new gamers? Would the world really be a better place if they cancelled the team Ico games or LBP or Yakuza to concentrate on appealing to more frat boys? :cry:

I remember the discussion you guys had about more of the same is not necessarily a bad thing. Sorry to belabor the point but as long as the games are good and make a profit its a win for everyone. And often sequals can be made for less money than the original, as the engine is already there so they can appeal to a more niche audience and still make a profit. I actually hope that the future of the PS3 is in more niche titles as that's more interesting to me.

I'm very interested in reading your thoughts.

Keep up the good work! :bouncy:

Respectfully,
Alex

[Conboy]

Good show guys. Shipwreck's fudge would be corny, like most of his jokes. Discussion on PS3 was spot on; every year is the year PS3 will dominate and it hasn't happened. Kevin Butler needs to take his smugness and go Home. Yes i said it. :)

Wombat, completely agree on Archer, one of the funniest shows on TV.

[Jazar]

Very well said Paradroid.

[bickle]

Its common knowledge that the mods of this site are extremely biased to the 360.

I completely disagree, but I just wanted to highlight someone who knows how/when to used "biased" instead of "bias". :)

[Davestation]

Wow, I did not know that the communist moved from the USSR to Ohio!! What kind of narsasistic individual take it upon themselves to tell Sony and their fans to quit making so many exclusives and actually give us less choices? I give Sony much credit for actually securing great studios. Microsoft just sold the majority of their studios and pays for timed exclusives whether that be for download packs for Call of Duty or a three month game exclusive. If they created their own franchises it would help competition between the two consoles. I mean all they have to offer is Halo, Crackdown, and Fable that are hits. Sony has a much larger line-up of exclusives wich is more lucrative for a first time console owner. Gears of War is owned by Epic Games, Microsoft only owns the publishing rights to the first two games. Microsoft needs to learn from Sony. Sony secures studios when they publish great games. If Microsoft did the same on securing studios instead of paying for timed exclusives they would better competition by getting games out. Competition is good for consumers!! Also, Insomniac opened a new studio in North Carolina and they finally announced that they are working on a 360 game!! I do not know if it is exclusive or not, but I am excited for this. The reason Ken Kutaragi left Sony is because him and Jack Tretton did not get along. He did take kind to a foreinger heading Sony for the first time in their history. Bottom line, you can not complain about a system coming out with exclusives, if Sony did not do that it would lack innovation in the gaming industry and lack competition and we would just be playing Call of Duty 38 in 10 years from now....Sony is the only innovator for the hard core gamer. The 360's orginal Blade-Dash was the way to go. When they launched the new format it was a learning curve to find everything. The XMB on the PS3 is easy to use but boring as hell...

[jax2001]

Remember what Cheapy said near the end of the episode, he takes after the Stern school of thought. He doesn't sell t-shirts but he sure knows how to generate buzz about himself, the show and the website.

As a PS3 owner only, I can't wait for the next one.

[Big-T]

This show was a trainwreck. This felt like a podcast from 2007, with the same tired arguments as to why the PS3 needs "saving". Shipwreck's entire analysis was just...dumb. It basically broke down that if X game isn't a bona fide system seller and outselling Call of Duty, Sony needs to immediately abandon X game and make some new IPs. Suggesting that a) In the system’s 5th year, Sony can or should just abandon its established exclusives on the PS3 and create/find entirely new ones, b) Sony should stop releasing any sort of game that can compete with Call of Duty and that c) If a PS3 game cannot sell more than the 12 million copies that Black Ops did, Sony needs to scrap it and make some new games, is downright stupid. A game like Socom is not competing with Call of Duty. It's not even the same type of game. For a guy that plays about 5,000 games per year, you’d think Shipwreck could tell the difference. They're two totally different markets. Resistance is also not competing with Call of Duty. If it’s competing with anything, it’s going against the sci-fi games like Halo and Gears. It’s getting its ass whooped in that fight, but it’s trying.

Why would Sony just abandon a flagship series like Resistance? That makes absolutely no sense. Resistance 2 didn't sell as well as it should have because in November 2008 when it released, it had to go up against Gears 2, and Call of Duty 4. What did Resistance 1 have to compete against? Genji? Sony released R2 at a terrible time. That's not an indication that Sony needs to scrap the Resistance series, but map out a better release schedule, and do better marketing. Shipwreck, you said that Microsoft has moved on from "numerous" games/series, and that's something that Sony needs to do. Now "numerous" implies a lot of games they did this for, yet you failed to name anything besides maybe Crackdown. I can't think of "numerous" games Microsoft left on the wayside. I can think of a few, but not "numerous". If you look at Sony's home consoles from the PS1 to the PS3, Sony has consistently put out new games, new franchises, and new exclusives. At least they make some attempt to put new games out there. I find it ironic that Shipwreck kept saying the PS3 needs fresh ideas, and then doesn't say anything when Wombat points out all the 360 has is Gears/Halo/Fable/Forza. Every E3, all Microsoft shows off is the above mentioned games, along with a Call of Duty map pack. It's beyond stale at this point, and quite frankly, boring. Don’t get me wrong. I love those games. But Microsoft seriously needs to start planning some new exclusives and franchises sooner rather than later. They need to start taking some chances on some new stuff, otherwise it’s going to bite them in the ass in a few years.

You guys said the PS3 has no game to match Fable. That’s true. However, both systems have something you won't be able to find on the other. The 360 has no game to match the Uncharted series, and it never will. I just can imagine seeing that type of game on the 360. The 360 also has no game to match the Ratchet and Clank series. I'm not saying that Ratchet is the be all end all, but the 360 has no platformers. Don’t say Banjo Nuts & Bolts, because that game is a joke. I only bring up this point because Microsoft purchased Rare, the king of platformers, and have failed to utilize them. What was the point of buying them? To make them develop shitty Kinect games? Rare has the ability to create 3-4 new platforming games/mascots for them, yet they haven't done so. It makes no sense. I really wish they would put out games like that, because they have the ability to do so. It's really disappointing. Microsoft has the ability to push new game titles, yet they continue to ride the Halo and Gears train. Alan Wake was a step in the right direction. Now, they need to continue in that direction.

The fact is, there are maybe 1 or 2 exclusive system sellers this generation, if even that. When you ask someone why they want a PS3 or 360, the answer is Call of Duty. 10/10 times, it's Call of Duty. Maybe Grand Theft Auto, but there hasn't been a new release for a few years now. Everything is about multiplatform now. People are buying new game systems for Call of Duty. Plain and simple. Microsoft has done the smart thing of marketing the game as a 360 title. Sony will not be able to undo the damage of the first few years of the system’s life. They fucked up badly, and quite frankly won’t be able to recover and relive the glory days of the PS1 or PS2.

The PS3 exclusives like Killzone 3, Resistance 3, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Little Big Planet 2, and Twisted Metal are their big games this year. The other stuff is supplementary, and I'm sure more games will be announced as 2011 rolls on. I'm not saying I'm buying each one of them, but that's a pretty damn good lineup. In fact, it’s a fantastic line up. Sony's problem is that they just don't know how to market their games properly. I completely disagree with Ship's assessment that Kevin Butler needs to go, etc. I think he's done a great job of revamping their image, and a lot of non-gamers that know I'm a gamer talk to me about the commercials. They love them. Sony’s image today is drastically more positive than it was around 2006-2008, due to the system relaunch and those Kevin Butler commercials. The games to sell the systems are there. There is no reason why system sales should be down, or why their games should’t be reaching 3-6 million sales each either. I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of their games. They're marketing department just completely sucks. Microsoft just seems to market everything better, especially their XBLA games. XBLA are one of the center pieces of the system, while PSN games are kind of just there. Sony needs to market their exclusives like they’re the second coming of Christ. Push it hard and long.

As far as the PS3's online capabilities go, you guys can stop using the lame argument that Xbox Live is so much better than PSN. It’s not. Xbox Live is no longer vastly superior to PSN. This isn't 2007 anymore. You guys should stop talking like PSN is still in the stone age, because it’s no longer there. I've been playing games online with the PS3 extensively since 2007. It was completely awful then. For a lot of games, you couldn’t even access your friends list or send invites properly. The difference between then and now is like night and day. I have to roll my eyes every time I hear someone drone on and on about how XBL is better in every way to PSN. At this point, they’re pretty close in terms of quality. I still can't wrap my head around how people justify paying that much money to play multiplayer games. Games are expensive enough. The fact that you need to pay additional money to access features on the disc is ridiculous.

I expect you guys to analyze the 360 and Wii over the next show or two with Ship's fancy spread sheets, but I doubt that's going to happen. I'm not sure why you guys singled out the PS3, unless you plan on doing the same thing for the other systems. I hope to see you guys as hard hitting on the 360 as you were on the PS3. Maybe you guys should just stick with what brought you to the dance (fart and weed jokes) and leave the serious industry analysis to other podcasts. Otherwise, we get episodes like this.

Very well put, I totally agree with your post. I still love the podcast and will continue to listen to it but I am glad these points are being discussed.

[collipop]

Unless there's something I'm missing...

When you first start up the PSN store....there's a button for "demos" right there. It's not hidden anywhere. Even less clicking then on the 360.

I've never seen it! Thanks for letting me know.

[GOTA]

I still can't believe that people root for game systems the same way most root for sports teams.

[usickenme]

Hey, I'm just rooting for a podcast that is open-minded and fair.

[blitz6speed]

I still can't believe that people root for game systems the same way most root for sports teams.

There is a lot more to it then sports teams. The more popular and successful microsoft gets, the more you will be seeing things that were once free (online gaming, levels not turned in paid DLC, costumes that used to be unlocks for clearing the game as paid DLC) turn to paid because people are in fact paying for them.

The xbox 360 is still the only video game system on the planet that charges you for P2P online gaming, none of which have actual servers for hosting games, just matchmaking. In fact, the first one is coming in nov 2011, Gears of War 3. On the flip side, tons of games have free dedicated servers on the PC and PS3. So you get a better online for free, yet people still pay monthly to play on xbox because they like to chat with their buddys while playing games. This is the direction gaming is going to, something more social, less about playing actual games, but playing games while talking/chatting with friends.

So yah, there are many reasons that people do not like to support one company or another. Im sure there will be someone reading this who values party chat over free online, dedicated servers and openly upgradeable hardware. Its obvious these people exists since there are 10 million more 360s sold in the US then there are PS3s.

[benjamouth]

Good podcast guys, I was thinking about getting a PS3 soon (even got $150 Amazon credit saved up) but after listening to you point out how crap they are I decided not to bother. I'll just stick with my 360 and Wii.

[lokizz]

Good podcast guys, I was thinking about getting a PS3 soon (even got $150 Amazon credit saved up) but after listening to you point out how crap they are I decided not to bother. I'll just stick with my 360 and Wii.


wow dude if this post is real then i pity you. make the decision for yourself dont base it on the idiotic ramblings of microsoft fanboys and a delusional ginger.

[GOTA]

There is a lot more to it then sports teams. The more popular and successful microsoft gets, the more you will be seeing things that were once free (online gaming, levels not turned in paid DLC, costumes that used to be unlocks for clearing the game as paid DLC) turn to paid because people are in fact paying for them.

The xbox 360 is still the only video game system on the planet that charges you for P2P online gaming, none of which have actual servers for hosting games, just matchmaking. In fact, the first one is coming in nov 2011, Gears of War 3. On the flip side, tons of games have free dedicated servers on the PC and PS3. So you get a better online for free, yet people still pay monthly to play on xbox because they like to chat with their buddys while playing games. This is the direction gaming is going to, something more social, less about playing actual games, but playing games while talking/chatting with friends.

So yah, there are many reasons that people do not like to support one company or another. Im sure there will be someone reading this who values party chat over free online, dedicated servers and openly upgradeable hardware. Its obvious these people exists since there are 10 million more 360s sold in the US then there are PS3s.

Like all products it comes down to the consumer. If customers are willing to pay for it then the company will continue to charge for it. If Sony thought they could charge for the same things they would be doing it too. All these companies have the same goals in mind and that is to get your money.

I've been around a long time and remember the same thing going on with Atari and Intellivison in the late 70s and Apple and Commodore in the early 80's. Nothings changed. Certain people seem to love to justify their decision to buy a certain system and try to convince those who bought something else that they were wrong over and over again. It's really no different from the Jets fans going at it with the Patriots fans.

I have to admit though that I do find it ironic that Microsoft who flopped at MP3 players, flopped a couple of times at phones, and creates software that complain about seems to have no problems selling game systems and peripherals. They should spin off their game division and unlock some value for once for their stockholders.

[benjamouth]

wow dude if this post is real then i pity you. make the decision for yourself dont base it on the idiotic ramblings of microsoft fanboys and a delusional ginger.

Well I was in two minds about it anyway, but listening to the cagcast made me think about all the many negatives. I mean in fairness I've heard lots of other people talking about why the PS3 is so poor, but the cagcast just put the argument forward so succinctly, it was very compelling.

I think calling them fanboys is a bit much, Ship is a ginger though, there's no denying that.

[Wolfpup]

Well I was in two minds about it anyway, but listening to the cagcast made me think about all the many negatives. I mean in fairness I've heard lots of other people talking about why the PS3 is so poor, but the cagcast just put the argument forward so succinctly, it was very compelling.

They didn't at all. Their complaints were ludicrous. Skip a system because the menu system hasn't been randomly changed? Ridiculous.

Buy a Playstation if you want the exclusives. If you don't and you already own an Xbox, then skip it. But don't avoid it for silly reasons.

And yeah, I agree with the person who said it looks really bad when you don't even know what platforms your "Xbox game of the year" is on... A game of the year that was explicitly the multiplatform game of the year from the Giant Bomb guys...

I mean sure Ship's saying it NOW, but you'd have never known it from the show IMO.

[XXXplosive1]

I find the grandstanding by the PS3 fanboys amusing in this thread. I own all three consoles and I find no real problems with the arguments they presented because they were speaking from their own OPINIONS. As entertaining as the CAGcast can be, the hosts have no real power in the industry. For people to complain with such vitriol by listening to a free podcast which no one is forcing them to do is laughable to me. I don't agree with everything they said but I enjoy the posters in this thread who were able to have a respectful debate about it.

[Wolfpup]

I find the grandstanding by the PS3 fanboys amusing in this thread. I own all three consoles and I find no real problems with the arguments they presented because they were speaking from their own OPINIONS. As entertaining as the CAGcast can be, the hosts have no real power in the industry. For people to complain with such vitriol by listening to a free podcast which no one is forcing them to do is laughable to me. I don't agree with everything they said but I enjoy the posters in this thread who were able to have a respectful debate about it.

It wasn't presented as opinion, and was all pretty silly. When you go on and on about "oh if only it was better!" and then present things like...the interface hasn't been randomly changed.

Nothing they said was a valid reason not to buy one, save for if you only care about multiplayer and all your friends are on a different platform. Only even that wasn't presented in that way, it was presented as if "friends being on" was an intrinsic property of Xbox.

Like I've said, I didn't see it until this past episode. Not even with the "Mass Effect is Xbox exclusive" episode, I was still giving the benefit of doubt, but come on...

[tbartolucci]

Everyone keeps harping on the PS3 discussion and how the left out the lack of 360 exclusives. While I wouldn't disagree there really aren't many 360 exclusives, that discussion had nothing to do with the 360. In fact the conversation, in its inception wasn't even about the PS3 hardware. It was about business decisions.

Shipwreck was simply trying to pose the question that if he can see the year over year decline in sales of PS3 hardware why isn't Sony trying something different to compel people to buy the hardware. Don't get me wrong I am very much looking forward to Uncharted 3 and Killzone 3. I am really looking forward to inFamous 2, and I kind of hope Resistance 3 is better than 2. But at the end of the day Sony is selling fewer and fewer systems each year. So what can they do better.

As someone who already owns a PS3, there really isn't much I can ask for they do have a great line up of games coming. And its very hard to think of this from the perspective of not having a PS3. I own all the consoles. I play games on all the consoles (including PC). I prefer FPS on my PC (unless its a console exclusive) and I play almost all of the PS3 exclusives but at the end of the day the thing that gets me.... and no one has mentioned this yet ... that I've read could have missed some... but I really prefer the 360 controller to the PS3. I hate the two thumbsticks in the middle there.

So when it comes to cross platform games I play on my 360 unless the game is cheaper for the PS3. Again though this discussion was simply about what if anything Sony can do to sell new hardware. And as much as I am looking forward to a lot of the PS3 exclusives this year, I agree with shipwreck. It doesn't seem to make sense that when you're selling fewer and fewer pieces of hardware, why release another game in a series that is selling fewer and fewer units.

[shipwreck]

I'm really not sure why you keep bringing up Mass Effect 2 like we're trying to have an ulterior motive. I explained why it's in the Xbox 360 exclusives category for our Favorite Games of 2010. We don't play PC games so it doesn't make sense for us to include them on our favorites. Nothing nefarious is going on here. There's no man behind the curtain. Chase a new conspiracy, because there's no rabbit hole here. It's not some twisted move by Xbox fanboys to glorify the Xbox in some twisted fashion. Or keep up the X-Filing and get to the bottom of our sinister plan. Oh no, I've said too much...

[Feeding the Abscess]

I'm really not sure why you keep bringing up Mass Effect 2 like we're trying to have an ulterior motive. I explained why it's in the Xbox 360 exclusives category for our Favorite Games of 2010. We don't play PC games so it doesn't make sense for us to include them on our favorites. Nothing nefarious is going on here. There's no man behind the curtain. Chase a new conspiracy, because there's no rabbit hole here. It's not some twisted move by Xbox fanboys to glorify the Xbox in some twisted fashion. Or keep up the X-Filing and get to the bottom of our sinister plan. Oh no, I've said too much...

I think the crux of the issue is this (probably been poorly worded previously):

If a game is released on more than one platform, it is not exclusive, regardless of preference. Using the logic of "we don't play PC," Oblivion would have been considered a 360 exclusive, since the PS3 version didn't arrive until the following year. In fact, Oblivion is the best possible mirror to Mass Effect imaginable: released on PC and 360 simultaneously, released on PS3 a year later.

I understand your reasoning (and don't disagree with it), but people aren't wrong for pointing out that it is a mistake to call Mass Effect an exclusive title. They could probably point this out in a more adult fashion, though.

[shipwreck]

That's the situation, yes. I don't mind people asking why we had it in that category or pointing out why they think we were wrong to do so. I've answered why it was valid for us though. There's nothing more to be pulled from the wreckage. When Oblivion came out we would have named it our Favorite Xbox 360 Game too.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Fair enough, fair points all around. Most of the thread seems like argument for the sake of argument, really.

[jax2001]

What kind of controller is Shipwreck holding in his profile pick? I bet it's a 360 controller...

[Davestation]

I have to agree with Shipwreck. I have always looked at as PC vs. Console. If a PC port was released on a console the game on the console is usually weaker (ie: Command and Conquer) So if Command and Conquer was first released on the PC than ported to the 360 I do not mind people saying it is exclusive to the 360 since 360 is an actual console and not a PC. But in all technicality you would have to say that Command and Conquer is Multi-Platform if it was released on PC and 360. Though I (and many others) are mainly console gamers and do not take into account PC games since not everyone uses their PC's for hardcore gaming.

[shipwreck]

What kind of controller is Shipwreck holding in his profile pick? I bet it's a 360 controller...

Haha... I have a white Dual Shock 3, so the conspiracy thickens.

[Das_Regal]

The PS3's sales are not declining "year after year," this is a one year decline from last year's increased sales, and a 5% drop at that. It isn't at all surprising either, last year Sony had a price drop and the release of the redesigned PS3 slim to increase sales, and it's been over a year since then. That momentum has died.

- Look at the facts: Sony beat Microsoft in console sales in Q2 by over 400,000 units.
- After the Xbox 360 slim was released and pro/elite/arcades were discouted, sales skyrocketed.
- They beat out Sony by the end of the year.

None of these facts had anything to do with a particular game giving the console momentum. Redesigns and price drops result in increased hardware sales, it's just that simple. Add onto that the fact that Kinect has unquestionably done better in North America than Move (which isn't the case globally yet -- we'll see), and it isn't surprising that these trends emerged. Actually I find it shocking that they weren't more dramatic.

This year, what does Microsoft have going for it? Very few exclusives, almost no Kinect titles announced other than Dance Central 2 (which is a dangerous move, they're accelerating milking the dance genre which will just bring about its decline faster like what happened to the music genre), and a price increase for Xbox Live which is going to start to take affect now that people's 1 year subscriptions are running out. Also keep in mind that the slim leading to a growth in hardware sales had a lot to do with people opting out of RROD, not a significantly increased install base (especially for core titles). If you don't believe me, look at Gamestop. They're desperately trying to move old Xbox 360 models for 110 dollars. I bet by the end of this year they'll be going for 80. The situation is worse on Craigslist.

Sony has an impressive exclusive lineup, they've closed the gap in multiplatform sales big time this last year, their install base has increased significantly, and there's a lot of Move support in the works (Heroes on the Move, Rachet and Clank all 4 1, Sorcery). Furthermore there's no reason to believe that people upgrading from original PS3s to slims accounts for hardware sales, given that the originals actually had a few features that PS3 slims don't (such as more USB ports and backwards compatibility) and you can upgrade the harddrive in all of them without buying proprietary cases (while being forced to pay double for the actual components). Also in my experience the PS3 controllers are much more durable than the Xbox 360 ones, which have bumpers that break really fast from normal use.

It seemed like a lot of the data that they cited in their show related only to North America as well, and you have to remember that the PS3 is beating the crap out of Xbox 360 in Japan, and seems to be winning in Europe as well.

[usickenme]

North America = console exclusive logic

[XXXplosive1]

It wasn't presented as opinion, and was all pretty silly. When you go on and on about "oh if only it was better!" and then present things like...the interface hasn't been randomly changed.

Nothing they said was a valid reason not to buy one, save for if you only care about multiplayer and all your friends are on a different platform. Only even that wasn't presented in that way, it was presented as if "friends being on" was an intrinsic property of Xbox.

Like I've said, I didn't see it until this past episode. Not even with the "Mass Effect is Xbox exclusive" episode, I was still giving the benefit of doubt, but come on...

I think "Friends Being On" is a valid reason to buy one over the other. My college roommate has a PS3 only and he asked me to buy COD Black Ops on PS3 so we could play together. We now have a nice little group of guys we went to college with that we play multiplayer with. I have both systems but most of them don't. A couple of guys we saw over the holidays bought PS3's just because they heard us talking about playing and wanted to join in.

The reason I buy most multiplatform games on 360 is because of the friends I play with in online sports leagues. I know local guys that play mostly on PS3 for the same reason. No one is right or wrong, it's just their opinion and experience. Wombat, Ship, and Cheapy speak from the same past experiences and if they prefer 360, so be it.

As far as the criticisms of the PS3, it's more then fare. Sony is working from 3rd place and they do have something to prove to gamers from the hardcore to the casual. How soon do people forget the same tone of criticisms were being lobbed at the Gamecube and Xbox when PS2 was dominant.

[lethalgorman]

Shipwreck speaks as is it's fact

[lethalgorman]

Xbox 360 sold more because alot of people had to buy multiples because of the red ring of death. How many does shipwreck, wombat or cheapy own? I know people on there third Xbox. Me, I still have a release ps3

[shipwreck]

Most RROD consoles were replaced for free through the extended warranty that MS put into place. I've had two replaced for free. I won my original 360 prior to launch, my wife bought me an Elite when those came out, and I bought a Slim 360 because I wanted one. I have a launch PS3 that works still. I would have replaced it with a PS3 slim, but I don't want to get rid of the backwards compatibility. I'll probably pick up a PS3 Slim when they get cheaper. Since we're randomly stating console purchases which have nothing to do with the contents of the show, I also bought a launch Wii which has a bad disc drive and I replaced it with a new Black Wii so that all my consoles are the same color.

If you think I think the original 360s were well made, I don't. They were awful in terms of quality. I'd never argue that the 360 was a better made console than the PS3. MS addressed the issue though. They offered a substantial warranty extension and the current models seem to be much higher quality.

Now what any of this has to do with the comments I made on the show, I have no idea.

[Dr Mario Kart]

The PS3 is still 3rd worldwide for at least another year, but as Kaz Hirai said at E3 2002, "The console war is over. The battle for #2 is undecided, but by next year will be moot."

The development situation isnt going to change on either platform just because of an insignificant lead change at the very end of the generation.

[sdp]

I enjoyed the analyzing of the PS3, I'd enjoy if a similar one was done for the Wii.

[koheed]

PS3 needs a Kingdom Hearts exclusive. I'm sick of seeing Kingdom Hearts games on DS and PSP. I will never play those games on those platforms. I believe a Kingdom Hearts PS3 exclusive might help to move some systems. (Of course, Sony still needs to implement everything discussed in the podcast in order to improve upon the system's experience.)