Wii: A Great Console This Generation (edit)

[omster]

EDIT: With hindsight, I realize it was careless of me to say it was the best console this generation. It is not that I changed my and decided I enjoyed the PS3 more. It is because the fact I have proclaimed that it is the best system, I feel pressured from within that I need to like and play more games on it.

At that point I would no longer be playing games for fun. It would be only so that I can continue to prove to myself that I was right to satisfy a hungry ego. This of course would only lead down a miserable road.

Video games, needless to say, are not the only situation where one can fall into this vile trap, but I am not really going to go into that. Moral of the story, don't let something that should be fun become something that makes you miserable. If you enjoy something, just say that. If not, don't diss the game. It just was not for you.

I had good times with the Wii and I feel it was a great console this generation. Plain and simple. (Hence the title change from "Best Console" to "Great Console")

Please pardon my silliness for creating this thread.


Original Post:

Yes, you read the title right. No need to check your eyes for problems or check your computer for viruses. Everything here is fine.

I bought my Wii on a whim. I was at a store and I saw the last one in stock. This was at the time when the Wii was hard to find and during the holiday season. I had been unsure about the system before, but when coupled with the idea rarity, I couldn't resist.

Little did I know, I would have the best experience with it this generation.

I don't spend a whole lot time playing games these days, so when I do play a game, I expect it to be a experience worthy of my time. The first game that really blew me away was Super Mario Galaxy. It was the first time since the SNES days that I wanted to complete every single part of a game. And I did, happily. It became my favorite game of all time and my Wii purchase was justified then.

It would later be dethroned by it successor, Super Mario Galaxy 2. Even though it was the same galaxy universe, the now even much more better level designs, made it even much more more better than ever (Yep!). Every single aspect of this game was beautifully polished.

While galaxy games have been the best game experiences, there are still other Wii titles that stood out. I enjoyed Kirby's Epic Yarn plenty and it was on like Donkey Kong with Donkey Kong Country Returns. And while they are virtual console titles, I had a blast with Paper Mario for the first time and I got a chance to re-play my favorite SNES game Super Mario World.

Currently I'm playing Sin and Punishment (N64) and Twilight Princess. S&P has turned out to be more exciting than expected. Twilight Princess, while starting out slow, has started to build up to something great. My biggest problem with Zelda games is that I don't like open world games. Ironically, I've owned every single Zelda game except for the DS versions and I've only completed Minish Cap. I started the other games, but I never cared to finish them early on (Zelda games have a charm to them, bringing me back). It's looking like I'm going to complete Twilight Princess.

In my backlog I have New Super Mario Bros Wii, Pikmin NPC, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor and A Boy and His Blob. All of which I am very excited to start. I am looking forward to Skyward Sword, especially with the new control scheme and their plan to make it less open world like.

When I bought my Wii, I had a PS3 and thought that it would best console for me. I had good times with it, though none stand up to the Wii.

Anyone else out there feel the same?

[bk187]

If you love Nintendo AAA titles of course you are going to prefer the Wii to the other consoles.

[jousley]

You'd have had more fun taking your dong out and waving it around....and it would have been more responsive as well.

[KaneRobot]

Anyone else out there feel the same?

Nope.

[Morrigan Lover]

This is only true because this is the first generation in the last 25 years in which Sega didn't release a console.

[Salamando3000]

No. Hell no. Good god no. It may be the most profitable, by far, but there is no way I could call it the best console this generation. I have nothing against motion controls, but 99% of the games that actually used them just shoehorned them improperly into a game and can DIAF. To say nothing of how poor playing online is...

[TLFerrill]

I just recently got my first wii and I agree in a few ways. Mario galaxy did blow me away, the games are just simple fun. I have barely played 360 lately thanks to the new wii.

However, looking back to my best times on 360, I think the big titles there are in a league of thier own. The added muscle of the other two systems isn't neccesary to make great games (the ones you mentioned), but when great games are made for my precious 360, I feel like it will always be my favorite console.

Summary: The wii doesn't deserve the "not for real gamers" label, and it has risen to be much more than a gimmick. it has some amazing games, but 360 will always be my preferred platform for blockbuster games like RDR, Black OPs, and the Fallout series. I'll be getting the wii a dust cover the next time a game like skyrim is released.

[soonersfan60]

There are lots of great Wii exclusive experiences for those with an open mind...

(and not just Nintendo's 1st party titles, either).

[willardhaven]

NSMB Wii is one of the best games I've played... ever. However I like the PS3 a bit more than the Wii.

[Altanis]

As crazy as it might sound, I don't think that SMG2 is in my Top 5 of Wii games. I am torn though, as I was pretty much unable to decide what my favorite game of 2010 was, between SMG2, Kirby EY, and DKCR. I think it's mostly because it really felt like a lot of it was just a rehash of SMG1 with some minor improvements.

My top 5 (in no order):
DKC:R
Kirby EY
SMG 1
NSMB Wii
I want to put a non-Nintendo game here, so I'd probably go with something like Monster Hunter Tri, but I haven't really gotten that far into it. Right now I'd probably put Mario Kart Wii.

[willardhaven]

Honestly after playing a new home console Super Mario Bros. game, the 3D Mario games just don't cut it.

[TheLongshot]

Sounds more of an argument that Nintendo has made some of the best games of this generation. That I can't really argue against.

[laaj]

I still call my Wii the Dragon Quest 10 machine. That's why I bought it for and non of the games I played so far changed that. That doesn't mean Wii doesn't have any good games, it just means that I wouldn't have bought it if DQX wasn't announced for it.

One telling sign how popular Wii is compared to 360 and PS3 on CAG: message board activity. Wii board is basically dead while 360 and PS3 ones are very active.

[ROB64]

The Wii? Not the best, imo. Though it is great, there are a few things that set it back. Not being able to have over 512MB (though they fixed it, it took Nintendo 2 freaking years!), it isn't powerful enough to display the games to their full potential, lack of an online profile, etc... makes the Wii more reminiscent of a last gen console (when online play was in it's beginning stages.)

The games on the other hand, are easily the best of this generation (first party anyway.)

Also, open world (Zelda or any game)=win. Who wants a game that you can't explore at your own leisure?

[omster]

You'd have had more fun taking your dong out and waving it around....and it would have been more responsive as well.

None of the games I've listed really have this issue, with the exception of DKC:R. In SMG 1&2, the hand flick motion to spin felt so right. I don't know how to explain, but in this situation I'd prefer it to pushing a button.

EDIT: On second thought, it was a bit naive to say I prefer it to pushing a button, as I really haven't tried in such a circumstance. My enthusiasm for this game does get the better of me. Nonetheless, I still feel the controls were still very responsive with the waggle and and all.

No. Hell no. Good god no. It may be the most profitable, by far, but there is no way I could call it the best console this generation. I have nothing against motion controls, but 99% of the games that actually used them just shoehorned them improperly into a game and can DIAF. To say nothing of how poor playing online is...

With the games I've listed, motion control hasn't really been forced. I'd agree the online play is underwhelming, but the Wii never has been about online, nor does it need it to be fun. The top multiplayer games SSB:B MK:Wii are best played together with friends. Nintendo wants to change that though it seems with the 3DS. I wonder how it will be implemented.

I just recently got my first wii and I agree in a few ways. Mario galaxy did blow me away, the games are just simple fun. I have barely played 360 lately thanks to the new wii.

However, looking back to my best times on 360, I think the big titles there are in a league of thier own. The added muscle of the other two systems isn't neccesary to make great games (the ones you mentioned), but when great games are made for my precious 360, I feel like it will always be my favorite console.

Summary: The wii doesn't deserve the "not for real gamers" label, and it has risen to be much more than a gimmick. it has some amazing games, but 360 will always be my preferred platform for blockbuster games like RDR, Black OPs, and the Fallout series. I'll be getting the wii a dust cover the next time a game like skyrim is released.

I agree there are more games for "real gamers" on both PS3 and 360. That said, since I spend less times with games, I only pick the best of them and it ends up being not much bigger than my Wii choices. Also, I feel the best games on those systems are the multi-platform games and so I don't really tie the experience to the system for some reason in my head.

There are lots of great Wii exclusive experiences for those with an open mind...

(and not just Nintendo's 1st party titles, either).

I'm curious to know what those would be. The only games that have interested me were A Boy and His Blob and Mercury.

Sounds more of an argument that Nintendo has made some of the best games of this generation. That I can't really argue against.

Agreed. I can't think of a single company that has released this many games with this high of quality.

I still call my Wii the Dragon Quest 10 machine. That's why I bought it for and non of the games I played so far changed that. That doesn't mean Wii doesn't have any good games, it just means that I wouldn't have bought it if DQX wasn't announced for it.

One telling sign how popular Wii is compared to 360 and PS3 on CAG: message board activity. Wii board is basically dead while 360 and PS3 ones are very active.

Maybe the CAGs who have a Wii are busy playing it? Or it could be they are speechless after playing SMG2?:roll:

The Wii? Not the best, imo. Though it is great, there are a few things that set it back. Not being able to have over 512MB (though they fixed it, it took Nintendo 2 freaking years!), it isn't powerful enough to display the games to their full potential, lack of an online profile, etc... makes the Wii more reminiscent of a last gen console (when online play was in it's beginning stages.)

The games on the other hand, are easily the best of this generation (first party anyway.)

Also, open world (Zelda or any game)=win. Who wants a game that you can't explore at your own leisure?

I never thought the Wii needed high capacity. I got a 2GB SD card and never thought much again of it. I didn't know they increased it.

I have a Love/Hate thing with open world games. It's just I can never decided what to do, and I don't feel like thinking of what decision to make. At the same time, there is so much choice. :bomb:

[omster]

WHAT???!!

Mario Kart Wii has sold 26.5 Million?!!

This list is very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

[Altanis]

Actually, the limit for storage on the Wii was 512MB internally and then another 2GB externally on a regular SD card. All the update in 2009 did was up the limit from 2GB (regular SD cards) to either 16GB or 32GB (SDHC).

I have a spare 4GB card in mine. I hardly ever use the thing though.

[Salamando3000]

With the games I've listed, motion control hasn't really been forced. I'd agree the online play is underwhelming, but the Wii never has been about online, nor does it need it to be fun. The top multiplayer games SSB:B MK:Wii are best played together with friends. Nintendo wants to change that though it seems with the 3DS. I wonder how it will be implemented.

I'd argue it was forced into Mario Galaxy. I've said it before and I'll say it again - motion controls work best whenever the action I'm performing in the game sync up with the action I'm performing in real life. Wii sports and the entire "swing the wiimote like a golf club to swing the golf club in the game" is a perfect example of where it works. In Mario Galaxy, shaking the wii-mote to spin isn't. It felt like something that would be better mapped to a button, not a motion.

I'll give credit where credit is due...the Wii does have some mighty fine games. I just feel like those that were successful were successful not because of the hardware, but rather in spite of it. And it's easy to argue that the 360/PS3 has more better-reviewed games...a simple trip to meta-critic will tell you that.

As far as online is concerned...this is best answered with a story. In college, I played my roommate in Soul Calibur and Smash Bros quite a lot. When we graduated and moved states apart, it was easier and less problematic to play Soul Calibur online than Smash Bros. As such Smash Bros fell by the wayside rather quickly, even though many would say it's the superior game.

[soonersfan60]

There was a thread on here before talking about all the great Wii exclusive games. (I don't think I saw anyone mention what some consider Nintendo's best game: Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Fire Emblem has been neglected.)

Some 3rd party games that come to mind are Zack & Wiki, Little King's Story, Monster Hunter Tri, Epic Mickey, Fragile Dreams, Trauma Center, de Blob, Elebits, Boom Blox, Data East Arcade compilation disc, and others. Also fun which my teenage son loved were Dragon Quest Swords, One Piece Unlimited Adventure, and Ghostbusters... which is very different and reviewers say better on the Wii. (Some would include Just Dance... but not me. Many also liked Mad World and No More Heroes.)

Other games coming soon include Dragon Quest--although published by Nintendo in the U.S.--and many more since Nintendo has such a huge installed user base this generation. Anyone who really cares I'm sure can find more titles with a little effort.

[TheLongshot]

WHAT???!!

Mario Kart Wii has sold 26.5 Million?!!

This list is very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

I have a coworker who only plays Mario Kart Wii on his Wii.

Personally, I went the cheaper route and got "Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing", which has been a pretty good alternative.

While I still want a PS3 to play some games, there are more than enough good games on the Wii to keep me busy for a while.

[ROB64]

Actually, the limit for storage on the Wii was 512MB internally and then another 2GB externally on a regular SD card. All the update in 2009 did was up the limit from 2GB (regular SD cards) to either 16GB or 32GB (SDHC).

I have a spare 4GB card in mine. I hardly ever use the thing though.
This is true, bBut you still couldn't play games from the SD card until they updated. You had to delete something from your Wii and copy it over before you could use it.

[moothemagiccow]

I agree with the OP. The Wii is made for games and it's got fun games on it. The other consoles are more like computers, they try to do too much. I bought a PS3 because there's no way I'm paying Microsoft to play online.

I use my PS3 90% for Netflix and watching videos from my computer. I download all the big name demos and most of them are boring. My favorite games were Bioshock, Assassins Creed 2 and Braid.

I know I know you guys are all about multiplayer and fragging people or whatever but I think most of these games just aren't much fun. Even Street Fighter is boring now, you go online and you don't have a chance unless you've been practicing combos for the last 2 months. Maybe I'm bad at games but I love Mario kart multiplayer and Fat Princess. Even tards like me have a fighting chance in a team setting.

[DOMINATOR912]

The Wii was the very first console that I've ever sold off. I bought it at launch and pretty much only played Zelda and Smash Bros. I gave other games a chance, but anything that wasn't made by Nintendo just wasn't all that good IMO. Nintendo just doesn't put out enough AAA titles that justified keeping my Wii. It's been over a year since I got rid of it and I haven't regretted it.

[crunchewy]

I actually rarely play my 360 online due to the fact that I don't game 8 hours a day and thus don't have a chance to compete. Getting crushed over and over loses it's appeal pretty quickly. It is fun when I can play a game with real (not online-only) friends, but that doesn't happen often. There are exceptions, but for the most part I play it offline, with the only online component being leaderboards, ghosts and such (Trials HD is a great example.) One exception is Kinect Sports bowling, because that's one game I have a chance to win at. :) It's not even as good, not nearly, as Wii Sports Resort bowling, but being able to play that online is a win. If Wii Sports Resort had online I'd be playing that version of bowling instead, though. It doesn't. And to contrast with that, playing Kinect Sports Beach Volleyball online is no fun at all. Ace. Ace. Ace. Ace. All against me. That gets old, trust me. By far the "system" that I play the most online is my iPhone. Mostly not "live" games, rather turn based ones.

I like the Wii a lot, much more then the typical CAG, but I must admit that I haven't played it much in the past half year or so. The 360 has great download games and that's where I spend most of my time on it. The Wii's download library may well be decent, but the lack of universal free demos is a deal killer pretty much. I know they've started adding demos, but it's not all titles and so I'd have to check and see if the game I wanted to try actually has a demo, and I just don't do it. If I knew that all the games had demos I'd definitely be trying them out and undoubtedly spending some money that way.

Having said that, once Red Lynx's MotoTrialz is out for WiiWare, I expect to be spending a lot of time on the Wii again. :)

[Corvin]

If you love Nintendo AAA titles of course you are going to prefer the Wii to the other consoles.

and by someone who doesn't own all three for a fair comparison.

Nintendo still has the market on first party titles, but the Wii falls short in many areas in regards to the system. An archaic online structure and friend codes are still a joke. Limited storage space on the system. VC titles tied to the system and not the gamer was a poor decision (should your Wii break). I'd also argue that HD and 5.1 are far more immersive than waggle, both of which the Wii lacks.

Which brings us to forced waggle in games that don't need it like Mario Galaxy, NSMB, Metroid: OM, DKCR, et al. Pretty much any long running franchise where an action that used to be a button press but is now mapped to motion for little to no reason. (swinging a sword in Zelda makes sense, as well as controlling Pikmin, etc.). So while Nintendo's stable of characters and franchises is immense, nearly all* of them are taken down a notch this gen for forced waggle. That also leads us to a lack of support for the Classic Controller, in which nearly all these games would have been great with.

The Wii is a good 'tweener' system though for those getting into gaming for the first time or jumping back in after being away from gaming for a while. With all the cons, I just can't see it being a sole/primary system for a 'core' gamer. It's a perfect complimentary system to the other two systems though so you can still get in on all the best the Wii does have to offer.

*SMG did manage to become one of the best games this gen in spite of silly motion controls.

[david12795]

wii technically wins this generation because of the amount of consoles sold but not sure about the games, considering they have made so many shovelwares.

[ROB64]

I agree with what some others have said, the "waggle" control in SMG felt just right. DKC:R on the other hand would've been better without motion control.
That being said, first party games are still some of the only ones that get motion control right, it's like third party devs don't know how to test their games.

[TheLongshot]

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that many "traditional" gamers are resistant to the Wii's motion contols, since many are entrenched with the way they have always gamed, but I've never had much of a problem with it myself. Most of the struggle hasn't necessarily been with the controls themselves, but how they are implemented.

Personally, playing FPSs on the Wii is closer to how I play them with mouse/keyboard on the PC than with the typical gamepad.

Personally, I give Nintendo credit for trying to push the boundaries of the controls, which is more than I can say for Microsoft and Sony. (At least, until Nintendo gave them a swift kick in the ass and forced them to follow with their "me too!" products.

[Blade]

1. Shovelware is on every console.

2. Every console has motion controls now (thanks to the Wii).

3. Online gaming is unnecessary if you have friends that live near you and can just come over. If you don't have friends that can come over and play Mario Kart with you, then I feel bad for you.

4. Nintendo's Virtual Console gives access to tons of exclusive, incredible games. They aren't "HD" games, of course, but no true gamer would ever dismiss a great game based on graphics.

I use my Xbox 360 much more than my Wii, but only because games are so much cheaper on that system--I own all of the other Nintendo consoles and already have the Virtual Console titles I want. In my opinion, excellent Wii games, like Super Mario Galaxy, far outclass highly-lauded games like GTA IV, Gears of War, and Mass Effect. Maybe it's just me, but I find that straight-up excellent game play is vastly superior to the so-called mature, taboo tactics of shooting someone's head off and soliciting a hooker.

[crunchewy]

I have no problem with motion controls, except when done poorly. There's certainly been some of that, but there's also been good uses of it. NSMB Wii was done well, for example. I loved the tilting platforms, for instance, and to me the spinning up in the air by shaking the remote also felt right. Yes, occasionally you spin your way up by accident, but it wasn't a big problem and overall it was a win. Also really, really like Excitebots: Trick Racing. That game plays beautifully. I also really liked using tilt controls in ExciteBike: World Rally. Did much, much better at that game with motion control for tilting instead of pure button control. It was completely natural. And SMG2. Etc. Of course all of those are 1st party. I wish there were more good 3rd party examples, but I can't blame Nintendo for that.

[omster]

I have no problem with motion controls, except when done poorly. There's certainly been some of that, but there's also been good uses of it. NSMB Wii was done well, for example. I loved the tilting platforms, for instance, and to me the spinning up in the air by shaking the remote also felt right. Yes, occasionally you spin your way up by accident, but it wasn't a big problem and overall it was a win. Also really, really like Excitebots: Trick Racing. That game plays beautifully. I also really liked using tilt controls in ExciteBike: World Rally. Did much, much better at that game with motion control for tilting instead of pure button control. It was completely natural. And SMG2. Etc. Of course all of those are 1st party. I wish there were more good 3rd party examples, but I can't blame Nintendo for that.

I never heard of ExciteBots and after looking into it, it's now on to my to buy list. Is it worth it getting the wheel with it? Does it add a nice effect or just a gimmick?

On another note, I was looking through the Wii games and read up on Punchout. I had to buy it right away after that. It just seems like way too much fun, especially with Wii controller. Anyone have any opinions?

Also, I'm not one to stand up for companies, no matter how much I love their products, but I can see why Nintendo doesn't add the option of the classic controller to some games. If they did, motion control would be a gimmick and in this case the entire system would be a gimmick. Definitely a bad idea business wise. That said, I stand by my opinion that the waggle in SMG 1&2 enhanced that game (The motion only levels were VERY fun too). In DKC:R the waggle to roll did get in the way, though the ground pound motion added a very welcome feel to the game.

Last thing, why doesn't the Wii play DVDs when it has the hardware?

[Salamando3000]

On another note, I was looking through the Wii games and read up on Punchout. I had to buy it right away after that. It just seems like way too much fun, especially with Wii controller. Anyone have any opinions?

Punch Out is probably one of my top three Wii games. I actually hold it in higher regards than the Mario Galaxy's. Although, I never used the motion control options for the game, I always played it with the wiimote horizontal. The extra accuracy really helps in later levels.

The game itself (for that matter, the entire series) is best described as a puzzle game masquerading as a fighting game...it's all about learning the opponent's tells/pattern and knowing how to best counter anything he throws at you.

And then Donkey Kong shows up...

Also, I'm not one to stand up for companies, no matter how much I love their products, but I can see why Nintendo doesn't add the option of the classic controller to some games. If they did, motion control would be a gimmick and in this case the entire system would be a gimmick. Definitely a bad idea business wise.

That seems like more of a condemnation of motion controls than anything. With Mario Galaxy, we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether it added or detracted from the game. I know my cat'll side with me...soo many bonk'd kitty heads...

[moothemagiccow]

The Wii was the very first console that I've ever sold off. I bought it at launch and pretty much only played Zelda and Smash Bros. I gave other games a chance, but anything that wasn't made by Nintendo just wasn't all that good IMO. Nintendo just doesn't put out enough AAA titles that justified keeping my Wii. It's been over a year since I got rid of it and I haven't regretted it.

It sounds more like you have too much time on your hands. Zelda took me forever to beat.

[VANDALHEART]

Nope.
OP is blinded by fanboyism.

[willardhaven]

Mario Kart Wii and NSMB are intense games, much better than the Gamecube incarnations. I still think the PS3 is on top, it has the best controller, free online and streams Netflix in HD.

Games mostly suck nowadays, so Netflix HD streaming is actually a factor.

[ROB64]

in fact forced or inaccurate motion controls are a strike again the console with only a few key exceptions.

I guess that means Kinect is a major fucking strike against Xbox. :)

[willardhaven]

I guess that means Kinect is a major fucking strike against Xbox. :)

Truth.

[omster]

Punch Out is probably one of my top three Wii games. I actually hold it in higher regards than the Mario Galaxy's. Although, I never used the motion control options for the game, I always played it with the wiimote horizontal. The extra accuracy really helps in later levels.

The game itself (for that matter, the entire series) is best described as a puzzle game masquerading as a fighting game...it's all about learning the opponent's tells/pattern and knowing how to best counter anything he throws at you.

And then Donkey Kong shows up...



That seems like more of a condemnation of motion controls than anything. With Mario Galaxy, we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether it added or detracted from the game. I know my cat'll side with me...soo many bonk'd kitty heads...

I keep getting more excited about Punchout, the more more I hear about it. It rare for me to get excited about games as I've gotten older. Anyways I guess we'll need to disagree to agree or agree to disagree (Is there a difference?!).

Also, I intended to have a neutral tone since this is a business aspect. Though a neural tone can come off as sounding negative.

It sounds more like you have too much time on your hands. Zelda took me forever to beat.

30 hours into Zelda and I think I'm halfway done. I'm actually surprised it's this long, though I feel chunks could be cut out for the better.

It's fun hearing the same arguments rehashed over and over. Wii is my favorite console this generation by far, because it offers an experience that neither of the competitors do. Motion controls aren't what win me over - in fact forced or inaccurate motion controls are a strike again the console with only a few key exceptions.

One reason Wii wins for me is because there are many good that aren't available anywhere else. Another reason is because the controllers are simpler and more comfortable. Another is because it is far and away the least expensive system.

Are there downsides? You bet. But as someone who isn't in love with FPS titles, doesn't spend a huge amount of time gaming, and strongly prefers gaming with friends in the same room instead of strangers online there is also a lot to like.

Agreed.

[crunchewy]

I never heard of ExciteBots and after looking into it, it's now on to my to buy list. Is it worth it getting the wheel with it? Does it add a nice effect or just a gimmick?

I play it better with the wheel, but I think it's a YMMV type thing. People use to ExciteTruck often seem to say that they play better with the bare remote.

Punchout is pretty great and it looks beautiful - one of the best looking Wii games - but note that the game is brutally difficult later on. I actually had a lot of fun with it using motion controls, but there does get to be a point where you need the accuracy of buttons, so you'll have to switch, but I do recommend playing it with motion controls at first. They do work well, just that as I noted, once the game gets really hard, and it does, then you'll probably have to switch. I actually never finished the game because it gets so hard. I keep meaning to go back to it, but haven't yet. In spite of that difficulty later on, still a great game.

[H4Y4TO]

I dont turn on let alone pay the wii much... but due to its overall massive success I would have to agree with you, even though most of it comes from their first party titles...

I used to enjoy the 360 the most, but now I am all about the PS3... So my favorite console this gen is the PS3, however, the best console is hands down the wii... It attracts casual gamers, social gamers, and non gamers... It also has a few titles for the everyday gamer and don't forget those Nintendo classics... That is my opinion anyways :)

[Corvin]

I guess that means Kinect is a major fucking strike against Xbox. :)

How so? They've have hundreds upon hundreds (thousand+?) core games that have nothing to do with Kinect.

I never heard of ExciteBots and after looking into it, it's now on to my to buy list. Is it worth it getting the wheel with it? Does it add a nice effect or just a gimmick?


ExciteBots is awesome (as is ExciteTruck) but I hated the wheel. It's just cumbersome and gets in the way.


3. Online gaming is unnecessary if you have friends that live near you and can just come over. If you don't have friends that can come over and play Mario Kart with you, then I feel bad for you.


:lol: Seriously? This is completely untrue. Can you have friends come over on the drop of a hat at 10:30 pm on a Tuesday? Some of us are married with kids and in turn have friends that are married with kids. Online play has been a godsend for playing together and chatting. Is it the same as getting together and talking smack while we play? Of course not, but condemning online gaming because you prefer the living room multiplayer experience is naive.

[blueshinra]

How so? They've have hundreds upon hundreds (thousand+?) core games that have nothing to do with Kinect.
Might want to do a tune-up of your sarcasm detector ;)

[moothemagiccow]

The wheel is annoying. Hold the controller sideways

[bsesb2003]

I have all three and I play the 360 is on quite often, the PS3 once and a while, and the Wii practically never.

[onikage]

Yeah, I would have to agree with the OP. In terms of first party titles it isn't even close. It seems like most of my favorites this gen have been Wii games, similar to the PS2 last gen.

DKC Returns
SMG 1 + 2
NSMB Wii
Super Paper Mario
Mario Kart Wii
Zelda: TP
Wario Land Shake It
Metroid Prime 3
Kororinpa 1 + 2
Zack & Wiki
Muramasa

[Sir_Fragalot]

My two favorite games this generation have been hands down Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes, so I do like my Wii.

Overall I think I like the PS3 better. Not because of the games, but the overall functionality of it (the 160gb HD, netflix HD, rechargeable controllers, free online and no friend codes, PS3 to PSP integration of games, etc). Actually wait, I think the other reason I like the PS3 better is they actually fucking release classic games on it frequently. It's been how long and still no fucking Pilotwings 64, Earthbound (yes I know they have copyright issues but still), and some other games. Not trying to say the Wii sucks because it's still a fantastic system and I love my Wii, but it seems like Nintendo is trying to shaft us loyal virtual console users.

[moothemagiccow]

At least Nintendo won't ban you for putting some emulators on your Wii

[omster]

My two favorite games this generation have been hands down Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes, so I do like my Wii.

Overall I think I like the PS3 better. Not because of the games, but the overall functionality of it (the 160gb HD, netflix HD, rechargeable controllers, free online and no friend codes, PS3 to PSP integration of games, etc). Actually wait, I think the other reason I like the PS3 better is they actually fucking release classic games on it frequently. It's been how long and still no fucking Pilotwings 64, Earthbound (yes I know they have copyright issues but still), and some other games. Not trying to say the Wii sucks because it's still a fantastic system and I love my Wii, but it seems like Nintendo is trying to shaft us loyal virtual console users.

The biggest drawbacks on the Wii is lack of HD and batteries. It doesn't ruin the system for me, but I feel it's a serious blemish.

At least Nintendo won't ban you for putting some emulators on your Wii

Honestly, they wouldn't be banning you from much. Plus, companies have a right to stop emulation of their games. I'll stop there. Don't want to offset this thread.

[ROB64]

I think any "Wii doesn't completely suck" threads will get at least a few fanboys trying to derail it.

On topic:
I agree about the VC releases. They've switched mainly to supporting Wiiware, which does have a few great titles, but there are still tons of VC games that can be released.
They just released Faxanadu though, so that made it better. Still waiting on The Guardian Legend and Tiger Heli...

[kodave]

Wii the console definitely isn't the best hardware/controller wise.

Game wise, its definitely been the best for me, 1st and 3rd party. If I could get RDR and Batman Arkham Asylum on Wii I'd probably be in heaven.

[TheLongshot]

The biggest drawbacks on the Wii is lack of HD and batteries. It doesn't ruin the system for me, but I feel it's a serious blemish.

Batteries a blemish? Actually, I think it is a plus, because it gives me the option of using off-the-shelf rechargeable AA batteries, which I have plenty of. Also, if it runs down, I can just switch the batteries.

For me, it is more convenient than trying to find a USB slot to plug a PS3 controller into.

[ctrek3]

3. Online gaming is unnecessary if you have friends that live near you and can just come over. If you don't have friends that can come over and play Mario Kart with you, then I feel bad for you.




:lol: Seriously? This is completely untrue. Can you have friends come over on the drop of a hat at 10:30 pm on a Tuesday? Some of us are married with kids and in turn have friends that are married with kids. Online play has been a godsend for playing together and chatting. Is it the same as getting together and talking smack while we play? Of course not, but condemning online gaming because you prefer the living room multiplayer experience is naive.

this. my best friend is married with three kids, and now lives on the other side of the state, when we want to play it needs to be online.

also who the hell wants to play mario kart or any other game in split screen. really dude split screen sucks.

[moothemagiccow]

3. Online gaming is unnecessary if you have friends that live near you and can just come over. If you don't have friends that can come over and play Mario Kart with you, then I feel bad for you.


How much do you pity me? Are you going to move near me and come over? I want to play kirby 2 player too

[Lost_In_Shadows]

I have all three and I play the 360 is on quite often, the PS3 once and a while, and the Wii practically never.

Mines playing the ps3 almost always. Wii on some and 360 is back in the box. :lol:

[xmbri]

I am going to go on a rant here because I am sick and tired of seeing articles about the Wii's demise or how bad it sucks or how bad the online is on it. Here is from someone who plays the Wii everyday and not 1 or two hours a week. At least I can give an honest opinion of the system and pros and cons. And yes, I own all three consoles so you can put your arguments to rest.
All 3 consoles have their plus and minuses. The Wii is the one I play the most and I am about to get rid of the other 2. Here is why: Hackers, Cheaters, Aimbots, and the like on the other two. The elitism on Xbox360 and PS3 stinks to high hell playing on line. I agree that playing offline is the better route if you have friends around. The Wii online has been sorely badmouthed. Either no one has truly played online with the Wii for any length of time and not played the system in its entirety. The Black Ops on Wii is just as good if you keep an open mind and become a graphics whore playing it. The gameplay on BLOPS on Wii is still one of the best and if you don't thinks so, you need to visit it sometime.
The Wii has many titles out for it and the people complain there is nothing new coming out for it this year and the title releases are sparse. Hey gamer, there are 948 titles for Wii that you haven't played. They also say there is no great titles on the Wii. I don't understand where this is coming from either. And the complaints from the elitists about motion controls. It is hit and miss on some titles, but spot on and intuitive in many titles. You are just used to the PS3 and Xbox360 controller and have a hard time adjusting to new controls. Wrap your head around it a few times and you may acutally prefer it better, especially some FPS.
The PS3 and Xbox360 has one thing that the wii doesn't, that is HD gaming. This is where the wii shows its age and limitations. But gameplay wise, each system has its great games and its absolute stinkers.
The Wii has plenty of games and plenty of titles to keep everyone busy. But gamers anymore move on title to title weekly and we have gotten use to having new releases all the time. But do we really need new titles and let the other 900+ games that were made just sit there.
The articles about the Wii dying and the system running dry is just bad journalism. The fact is the Wii is still selling, people are still buying games for the system, and innovative titles are coming out for it. The Move and Kinect are also a true testament to the Wii's dominance in gaming.

[Temporaryscars]

Wait...the Wii plays games? I better tell my parents. I think they just stream Netflix with theirs.

[0_0]

The problem with the Wii is that it relies too heavily on 1st party games to deliver. This creates huge gaps between good games because the developers simply can't product quality games as quickly as consumers demand it.

I love the Wii, but PS3 is clearly the best.. it kinda sucked in the beginning, but it easily has the best quality (and quantity) of games as well as the most multimedia function

[Corvin]

The Wii online has been sorely badmouthed. Either no one has truly played online with the Wii for any length of time and not played the system in its entirety.

So you honestly think the Wii online experience, friend codes and all, is comparable to what the 360 and PS3 have to offer?

[SuperPhillip]

So you honestly think the Wii online experience, friend codes and all, is comparable to what the 360 and PS3 have to offer?

I don't think he said that, did he?

[dothog]

I don't think he said that, did he?
No, but the "badmouthing" is a natural result of people comparing the Wii online experience to that of the PS3/360. Corvin's just skipping a step to get to the issue directly.

What makes it worse is that there is effectively no online experience for the "new" gamers (e.g. Wii bowling leagues in old folks' homes) that Nintendo tapped into with the Wii. They don't have the wherewithal to follow the layers of abstraction -- via friend codes, etc. -- to connect one person with another. It's not an online box for most of its user base, or rather the user base that Nintendo was bragging about in the early going.

It's a shame because had they gone after a sensible online experience for those Wii Sports folks, who knows what might have come of the Wii Shop, or future iterations of Wii Sports, or Wii Speak. I mean, connecting grandparents with grandkids a few states away so they can bowl and chat together online? You play that bullshit on an infinite loop the way Apple does the deaf/signing Face Time ads, the media will absolutely eat that up the way they did clips of old farts in bowling shirts with Wiimote in hand.

I tried to assist a few family members in connecting online to race in Mario Kart, it was a huge pain in the ass. Then with the one that succeeded, we're setting up a room, and it's just the two of us, and we couldn't hear or see the other without a simultaneous cell phone call. It was just dumb, it was a stupid, cheap, stupid experience.

That's just one disappointment of the overall Wii experience. They were way in front of a trend with motion control, like it or not. However, they missed a lot of easy opportunities to front-run in areas (online play, Wii Shop) that could use a front runner, because though the 360 and PS3 have an online experience, it could be greatly improved.

Maybe I should say that the disappointment is that Nintendo clearly has people smart enough to make online better, make it more accessible and enjoyable, but it isn't an R&D priority for them the way motion control was. They make hardware, and they sell the dick out of it. They don't make software (such as that needed to open online play to "new" gamers) unless it's iterations on old favorites.

[dothog]

From a online gaming perspective, it is as bad as people suggest. You enumerate exactly why it is that bad.

1. Can't connect easily
2. Can't communicate
3. Can't connect with friends

So it's tough to connect, once you are connected there's no way of finding the people you want to game with, and provided you're lucky enough to be gaming with friends, you have no way of chatting with them in the game.

This isn't hand waving, I've tried to guide neophytes through the Wii online experience and their immediate reaction was, "Eh, this is confusing, I'll just bowl instead." There's nothing to the experience that is reaching out to Everyone, the inaccessibility of it excludes those new gamers automatically.

There's no getting around how bad the Wii is for online gaming, it's barely worth mentioning as a feature given its limitations. It's the DS online experience without any real upgrades. It doesn't even belong to this generation of game consoles, it's much closer to the PS2/DC experience from 12 years ago.

It's such a glaring fault that it makes a joke of this thread title and responses half-heartedly defending the Wii's online play. Sure, online isn't everything, but in this generation of consoles, it's not nothing, either. And the Wii misses online entirely in all the ways that matter (the 3 you indicated above).

[SuperPhillip]

I don't find online play the be-all end-all. I'll leave it at that.

[lilboo]

I've always been a pretty strong Nintendo fanboy at heart. I love the Nintendo franchises and always love how they ~usually~ take a different approach to systems/handhelds.

But the Wii.. was too much hype, and not enough to back it up. Early on when the Wii came out, I would defend it. I would defend the fact that the Wii JUST came out -- good games will come. They never came. Yeah, there's a handful of GREAT/EXCELLENT/SUPERB games.. but we're talking 5 years now. It will be 5 years come November. FIVE years and what do we have? The virtual console was a fantastic idea and that became a letdown. WiiWare was something that could have been awesome, too, and yet that became a letdown.

They release a console with 512mb. Really? It took them like 3 years to allow us to use our SD cards.. for those of us who were stupid to buy a ton of VC/WiiWare games to show them "HEY! We support this! Keep doing what you're doing!"

I know EVERY console has shovelware and sometimes you get a really good piece of shovelware. The Wii, IMO, had an insane amount of shovelware. Sooooo many games require to just.. shake the controller to do something. You don't even have to do it the correct way, just move the controller. It's kind of frustrating.

I just feel tired of "waiting" for things to change. They never did.
Although "motion" and "fitness" may be a thing of the future of games, the Wii did most of these pretty awful. Of all the fitness games out, I'd have to say that Gold's Gym Cardio Work out was the best. EA Active 1 was OK, too. IMO? Dance Dance Revolution is still one of the best cardio games out there. Dance Central for the 360 is right up there as well.

[Sir_Fragalot]

But the Wii.. was too much hype, and not enough to back it up. Early on when the Wii came out, I would defend it. I would defend the fact that the Wii JUST came out -- good games will come. They never came. Yeah, there's a handful of GREAT/EXCELLENT/SUPERB games.. but we're talking 5 years now. It will be 5 years come November. FIVE years and what do we have? The virtual console was a fantastic idea and that became a letdown. WiiWare was something that could have been awesome, too, and yet that became a letdown.

They release a console with 512mb. Really? It took them like 3 years to allow us to use our SD cards.. for those of us who were stupid to buy a ton of VC/WiiWare games to show them "HEY! We support this! Keep doing what you're doing!"

I know EVERY console has shovelware and sometimes you get a really good piece of shovelware. The Wii, IMO, had an insane amount of shovelware. Sooooo many games require to just.. shake the controller to do something. You don't even have to do it the correct way, just move the controller. It's kind of frustrating.

I just feel tired of "waiting" for things to change. They never did.
Although "motion" and "fitness" may be a thing of the future of games, the Wii did most of these pretty awful. Of all the fitness games out, I'd have to say that Gold's Gym Cardio Work out was the best. EA Active 1 was OK, too. IMO? Dance Dance Revolution is still one of the best cardio games out there. Dance Central for the 360 is right up there as well.
I agree. I love Nintendo, and I day one buy their products because I am pretty much a whore fro them but the Wii, yeah. The VC was a huge letdown. There was so much potential but what did we get from it? I am still waiting for Pilotwings 64 and don't tell me in almost five years you can't fucking release it. There are other games people are waiting for as well and in five years don't tell me you can't fucking release those games. On the other end of the spectrum, tell me how many fucking aweful WiiWare games get released. It's seriously we see like 10 bad WiiWare games to one decent one.

Another point was the memory issue. Not allowing SD cards even though it was just an update was fucking bullshit. I mean the Wii doesn't need gigs of storage but to just limit how much a user can have on the system to 512 MB when you have a shop. Really?

Plus the Wii is the king if shovelware. Jeep Thrills, Ninjabread Man, etc and QVC was even selling the system with shovelware. I mean dear god, you know you have tons of crap on the system if they are selling bundles with them included.

Also yes this motion control crap has to stop. No I do not want to shake the controller if it's the same thing as a button press. I want my motion controls to give me something that is not about pressing buttons, like Zelda is FINALLY doing after 5 years now.

[lilboo]

Also yes this motion control crap has to stop. No I do not want to shake the controller if it's the same thing as a button press. I want my motion controls to give me something that is not about pressing buttons, like Zelda is FINALLY doing after 5 years now.

I don't mind the concept of motion controls. Well, real ones. When they finally released the Wii Motion Plus (which we all know should have been IN the controller since launch..), it almost made things hopeful. To be honest, Wii Sports Resorts is pretty good because of the sorta 1:1 motion. Yet this has been out for what, 2 years now? How many awesome Motion Plus games do we have? It just seems like a wasted opportunity.

I also have a Kinect and although I can't say I'm a huge fan of it, it def works better than the Motion Plus. The problem with Kinect, is that every game that uses motion should not be some kind of workout game or some kind hidden workout game -- meaning it uses so much of our energy we are exhausted by playing. I welcome the future of motion controls.. but done right. Mario Kart Wii is a good example of a game being actually FUN with motion controller and it doesn't show a calorie count.

I did forget to add something to my previous post: The Miis and the channels. At first when they came out with the corny but kinda amusing "Everyone Votes" channel (or whatever it was called), there seemed to be potential in these channels. I think that was the most amusing one.. and all it was, was a voting app. That's it. The weather and news where cool if for some reason you had your Wii one and didn't want to look at your PC...lol But why in almost 5 years did we not get anything cool? We had a limited time channel for Metroid Prime. THAT showed potential and THAT was cool. Yet, as far as I know.. that was the only one of it's kind??

Then there's the Miis. They seem to have been everywhere and in a ton of games including some 3rd party games. They were amusing at best.. but we never did receive any kind of update to them? Never any clothes? or styles? ...anything? Even if they were lame and charged us like MS does with their avatars at LEAST we could say they were trying to improve.

Ugh. Just ugh.

[Sir_Fragalot]

I don't mind the concept of motion controls. Well, real ones. When they finally released the Wii Motion Plus (which we all know should have been IN the controller since launch..), it almost made things hopeful. To be honest, Wii Sports Resorts is pretty good because of the sorta 1:1 motion. Yet this has been out for what, 2 years now? How many awesome Motion Plus games do we have? It just seems like a wasted opportunity.



Exactly. I like the idea of motion controls. It's just no one fucking uses them properly. I have not bought a Wii Motion Plus since the thing was release since no one uses it which in theory almost 1:1 motion is exactly what I want in the Wii.

Metroid Prime 3 got it perfect. I am sure Wii Sports Resort got it good. Why can't more games follow this trend.

[crunchewy]

Wii Motion Plus is an improvement, but it's still not really good enough. It gets out of calibration way too easily. Which I guess is what's supposed to be better about PS3 Move, but I can't tell you if that's really better or not as I don't have a PS3, nor Move. Point is, there's plenty of room for improvement. I think they're going to have a tough time competing with Kinect, though. Unless, of course, they make their own variation on the theme. Perhaps a Kinect-like 3D camera, but with a better then WM+ remote controller supplementing it. Whatever, I'm excited to see what they show at E3.

[MrKing]

rotflmao, hardly.

[barchi01]

I own a Wii and it has made a beautiful decorative addition to my living room. Honestly Nintendo is so out of touch with what real gamers want they will never catch up. I realize kids are the target audience for Nintendo but ditch the gimmicky shit and keep up with the rest of the pack (i.e 1080P graphics, 60 Frames Per Second, Multi Platform Titles that don't suck, Good Third Party Exclusives). Also they screwed up Mario Kart which is one of the Nintedo games I have always cared about. Just say no to Nintendo!

[chimpmeister]

Anyone else out there feel the same?

No, the Wii is among the worst consoles ever released IMO. Sold with the waggle gimmick to lure in casuals/kids, horribly underpowered hardware (upgraded Gamecube with motion controls basically), can't even output HD, tons of shovelware games that are not worth even $5 each. It is a dismal failure for the real gaming community, and even for 3rd parties its a bust because all the casuals don't buy games at anywhere near the level of dedicated gamers.

[crunchewy]

@MrKing: At the Kinect comment? I do think that Microsoft one-upped them and they ought to counter it in their next console. Have you played Kinect? It's darned impressive and fun. It has some areas needing improvement too, but overall it's pretty amazing what it does. But, yeah, I'm sure the Wii successor will sell great regardless, and I'll be one of the buyers.

[omster]

I edited this into my original post, but here it is again:

With hindsight, I realize it was careless of me to say it was the best console this generation. It is not that I changed my and decided I enjoyed the PS3 more. It is because the fact I have proclaimed that it is the best system, I feel pressured from within that I need to like and play more games on it.

At that point I would no longer be playing games for fun. It would be only so that I can continue to prove to myself that I was right to satisfy a hungry ego. This of course would only lead down a miserable road.

Video games, needless to say, are not the only situation where one can fall into this vile trap, but I am not really going to go into that. Moral of the story, don't let something that should be fun become something that makes you miserable. If you enjoy something, just say that. If not, don't diss the game. It just was not for you.

I had good times with the Wii and I feel it was a great console this generation. Plain and simple. (Hence the title change from "Best Console" to "Great Console")

Please pardon my silliness for creating this thread.

[kube00]

Interesting

[Sir_Fragalot]

I own a Wii and it has made a beautiful decorative addition to my living room. Honestly Nintendo is so out of touch with what real gamers want they will never catch up. I realize kids are the target audience for Nintendo but ditch the gimmicky shit and keep up with the rest of the pack (i.e 1080P graphics, 60 Frames Per Second, Multi Platform Titles that don't suck, Good Third Party Exclusives). Also they screwed up Mario Kart which is one of the Nintedo games I have always cared about. Just say no to Nintendo!
I mean I have come to realize that I am not getting any good multiplatform games but I am fine with that. I don't buy a Nintendo system as a replacement for a PS3. Now with that said, they do need HD. I am not a graphics guy who will complain about bad graphics but I do own a HDTV and well the non HDness of the Wii can be very noticable at times. Not that it hinders the games but more so it would just be nice to have HD.

[omster]

I mean I have come to realize that I am not getting any good multiplatform games but I am fine with that. I don't buy a Nintendo system as a replacement for a PS3. Now with that said, they do need HD. I am not a graphics guy who will complain about bad graphics but I do own a HDTV and well the non HDness of the Wii can be very noticable at times. Not that it hinders the games but more so it would just be nice to have HD.

Yeah. The Wii was pretty much rejected from the get go by developers, so lack of 3rd party titles was a big hit on the system. The fact that it doesn't have HD or high graphics probably only worsened matters.

The overwhelming majority of the best games this generation were the multiplatform titles. If the Wii had these games as well, it would pretty much be complete.

My favorite first party titles + my favorite third party titles = Ultimate Combo!

[dothog]

I just remembered Wii Music. Remember the E3 presentation, where the Nintendo folks are "playing" Wii Music in front of everyone? The trolls need to abandon this "3rd party support" tack and just loop the E3 Wii Music demo. There's no stronger argument for Wii failure out there than that footage.

[chimpmeister]

Wow, I forgot about Wii Music . . . lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRctny31UxQ

[foltzie]

Yeah Wii Music was the low point of Nintendo's releases.

It is an impressive bit of code, but it just isnt fun. Still I cant fault Nintendo for trying, its clear many of them love classical music and wanted to find a way to bring that to the masses.

[confoosious]

I just remembered Wii Music. Remember the E3 presentation, where the Nintendo folks are "playing" Wii Music in front of everyone? The trolls need to abandon this "3rd party support" tack and just loop the E3 Wii Music demo. There's no stronger argument for Wii failure out there than that footage.


Wow, I forgot about Wii Music . . . lol.


cause you know, no other console has ever had a really shitty first party release. :roll:


----

Wii motion plus has had like 3 decent games. I think by the time they released it, the third party developers were just fed up with nintendo. So nobody went out of their way to do any serious development. I mean, who can blame them. The kids playing Imagine Party Babyz don't really give a shit about 1:1 motion.

I still love it for Tiger Woods though. And with Flingsmash going for $30 on amazon last fall, upgrading to WM+ was basically free.

So if the pics of Cafe are to be believed, where does the motion stuff go? How are you gonna play Tiger Woods with that big ass controller?

[dothog]

Give me a break, it's a huge stinker. This isn't some failed game they tried to sweep under the rug. They featured this POS, they allocated a huge chunk of their E3 presentation to a first-party title that literally HAD NO CONTROLS.

It's the gaming equivalent of a 3-year-old sitting in the Pole Position booth at the arcade and moving the wheel along with the "INSERT COIN" demo on the screen. I understand that they're aiming for the so-called casuals, but even casuals know that the way it goes is you move the controller, and the magical gnomes in the controller and TV make the video game mirror your button press, waggle, whatever.

Wii Music does what it do whether the gamer's there or not. The only influence the gamer has is whether the game occasionally farts out an off-key piano/xylophone note. That is dumb. I'm ashamed I gave it such a pass the first time around.

People go on and on about 3rd party support, but what about first party support? Nintendo released Wii Music ON PURPOSE. It wasn't leaked. They sold that bullshit in stores.

[crunchewy]

Wii Music was an embarrassment and their featuring it at E3 even more so, but it's still just one game. Are you trying to say that Super Mario Galaxy 2 sucked because Wii Music was terrible?

[confoosious]

Give me a break, it's a huge stinker. This isn't some failed game they tried to sweep under the rug. They featured this POS, they allocated a huge chunk of their E3 presentation to a first-party title that literally HAD NO CONTROLS.

It's the gaming equivalent of a 3-year-old sitting in the Pole Position booth at the arcade and moving the wheel along with the "INSERT COIN" demo on the screen. I understand that they're aiming for the so-called casuals, but even casuals know that the way it goes is you move the controller, and the magical gnomes in the controller and TV make the video game mirror your button press, waggle, whatever.

Wii Music does what it do whether the gamer's there or not. The only influence the gamer has is whether the game occasionally farts out an off-key piano/xylophone note. That is dumb. I'm ashamed I gave it such a pass the first time around.

People go on and on about 3rd party support, but what about first party support? Nintendo released Wii Music ON PURPOSE. It wasn't leaked. They sold that bullshit in stores.

nobody said it wasn't. It's one fucking game though. :roll:

Are we to judge the 360 on Vampire Rain?

I can't believe how ridiculous the haters are.

[dothog]

nobody said it wasn't. It's one fucking game though. :roll:

Are we to judge the 360 on Vampire Rain?

I can't believe how ridiculous the haters are.

I dunno, was Vampire Rain created and developed by Microsoft exclusively for the 360? Was it featured in any of MS's E3 keynotes?

I don't think it's fair to say I hate Nintendo or that I'm being ridiculous. I think the point is valid, and I think it's a natural counterpoint to, "3rd party developers abandoned the Wii!" Maybe all they could come up with to accommodate the Wiimote was the same bullshit that Nintendo put into Wii Music, and the 3rd parties had the decency to say, "Wait, that's not a game. Scrap it."

[confoosious]

:roll: why do i even bother.

Let me repeat again: it was ONE game.

It has nothing to do with other games in development except that there will never be a wii music 2. Do you understand? Wii Music is not an argument for or against nintendo or for or against third party support. Wii mUsic is simply an argument that nobody shouldve developed wii music, in house or out.

[dothog]

:roll: why do i even bother.

Let me repeat again: it was ONE game.

It has nothing to do with other games in development except that there will never be a wii music 2. Do you understand? Wii Music is not an argument for or against nintendo or for or against third party support. Wii mUsic is simply an argument that nobody shouldve developed wii music, in house or out.

It's not the ONE game, it's the fact that they put their resources into developing and promoting (in their E3 keynote) a game that was supposed to feature the Wiimote controls. They were creating and marketing a standalone Wii experience. It's representative of the failure of the Wii.

Nintendo had an unexpected audience off the launch and Wii Sports, and thereafter they failed to set a standard for a Wii gaming experience, to make a game as inherently "Wii" as Wii Sports. Everything else was branding games with familiar IPs, and that could've been done on any console with any control scheme.

It's hardly the Wii's success that SMG sold. SMG would've sold if it had GCN controls or balance board controls. Nothing about the new control scheme that came with the Wii sold copies of SMG.

Now, had people who normally don't care for Mario bought SMG because it featured some nifty Wiimote control scheme, that would be a success. But I don't believe that happened, I think Nintendo wiffed on that opportunity. That's the failure of the Wii.

EDIT: I guess the balance board was a success, but again, that has nothing to do with the pack-in wiimote and/or nunchuck. That's more a fitness thing. Anyhow, they moved balance boards, I guess from a bottom-line standpoint (not a "shifting the gaming paradigm" POV) that was a success.

[confoosious]

It's not the ONE game, it's the fact that they put their resources into developing and promoting (in their E3 keynote) a game that was supposed to feature the Wiimote controls. They were creating and marketing a standalone Wii experience. It's representative of the failure of the Wii.

Nintendo had an unexpected audience off the launch and Wii Sports, and thereafter they failed to set a standard for a Wii gaming experience, to make a game as inherently "Wii" as Wii Sports. Everything else was branding games with familiar IPs, and that could've been done on any console with any control scheme.

It's hardly the Wii's success that SMG sold. SMG would've sold if it had GCN controls or balance board controls. Nothing about the new control scheme that came with the Wii sold copies of SMG.

Now, had people who normally don't care for Mario bought SMG because it featured some nifty Wiimote control scheme, that would be a success. But I don't believe that happened, I think Nintendo wiffed on that opportunity. That's the failure of the Wii.

EDIT: I guess the balance board was a success, but again, that has nothing to do with the pack-in wiimote and/or nunchuck. That's more a fitness thing. Anyhow, they moved balance boards, I guess from a bottom-line standpoint (not a "shifting the gaming paradigm" POV) that was a success.

Your logic is completely faulty. By saying saying wii music, because it was developed by nintendo as an exclusive and announced at E3 is different from any other game and therefore should be used to judge nintendo, then you're saying any other game developed by nintendo as an exclusive and announced at E3 could be used. So why not any other nintendo developed game announced at E3? Oh, because almost every other game announced at various E3s were good and succesful doesn't support your haterism. :roll:

Look, Wii Music was a monumental turd. But to say that it should be used to judge the wii is just stupid.

Can't wait for the Troll #1 to chime in on this.

[foltzie]

I wish my failures sold 80+ million units, are number one in software sales, profits, hardware reliability, and set the new standard controls for a generation.

Did Wii Music kick someones puppy?

Nintendo isnt perfect, but this failure business is always weird.

EDIT: Heck the game itself sold 2.5 Million copies. Impressive, and I rather disliked the game.... (Only game I only booted once, and then traded in the next day)

[confoosious]

Did Wii Music kick someones puppy?


by the reaction, it killed it.

[dothog]

Foltzie: Yes, it sold a lot. I'm not arguing against that. And other titles that were fit to the Wii (SMG, whatever other big name IPs) sold well.

I'm not arguing it failed at making Nintendo money, I'm arguing that it failed on the promise of Wii Sports and new ways of controlling old IPs. Maybe the better way to say it is that it was "disappointing" as a console -- rather than a failure. Skyward Sword might be a small success in terms of creating a Zelda game that's as much about the Wii controls (MP+) as it is IP branding, we'll see. Overall, my point is the games I played on the Wii by and large could have been played on any other console, when initially, at launch, the feeling from Nintendo fans was that they would be making games that were as much about the Wii as they were about Mario, Zelda, etc. It was a "new" way to experience those games.

[omster]

Wow, I had never seen the Wii Music video. I had only heard of the game. I'm assuming the part that's mocked is the band at the end. Painful to watch, yet aslo entertaining.

dothog, at first I thought you were just being sarcastic. I understood your point of view in your later posts though: the uniqueness of the Wii was not often utilized to create a new experiences.

I personally never got a Wii to play motion control games. In my first post, I mention that I bought it on nothing other than a whim really. I just now gave Wii Sports an honest try for the first time last week. It was a blast of insight of why the Wii became incredibly popular. While I don't see myself playing the game alone, I do see its value with company. I plan to use it with family and friends now that I know.

Back more to the discussion on hand: was the Wii control scheme underutilized? I would say no. If I look at the list of games that implement them well, sure, it's not very big. But how many games need it be? The same question can be applied to how many games need to be AAA before a system is considered a worthy console. I would not say that list is all that large either.

Now if the Wii didn't have its special controllers as the central control scheme, how many well developed motion control games would have been produced? Only a fraction (we are talking a fraction of a fraction). We have seen how extra peripherals are used in past generations. Usually only employed by one game, and not that successful (DDR being the exception).

There are games I have enjoyed on the Wii that would have been just as excellent without motion control. Some maybe more enjoyable (MP3:C & DKCR). After all, the software is what makes the hardware fun. But there are also those games that did introduce a new experience. This fact can't be ignored. There are of course limitations to how motion control can be used. Nintendo know this and and stated how developers are struggling to make use of the Wii's features.

Motion control is still in its infancy. In a way, Nintendo established it as a genre. I don't believe a system that has it a central part can once again become as triumphant as the Wii though. It appears as if the Nintendo feels this way too if the rumors have shed any light of truth on the Wii's successor. The Kinect and Move both are relevant mostly because of the Wii. And they in themselves have shown that extra peripherals can now be successful. Motion control will in all likelihood continue and in time, become more refined in games.

The Wii was code-named Revolution. It has done just that and its impact is far to clear to be called anything less than a success.

[Josh5890]

I'll make a sensable statement if I may.

The Wii is a really good system on it's own. It has produced many great games like Super Mario Galaxy series, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Metroid Prime 3 and Other M, Brawl, Wario Land and Wario Ware games, as well as the Wii Sports games. And those are just first party games. Yes there has been alot of shovelware but you give me one system that has zero "shovelware" games.

You could make a complaint that the Wii's online is terrible and for the most part it is. But a few games like Mario Kart Wii are very successful online. I wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo did alot better with the online with Project Cafe.

The virtual console is also a great part of the Wii. You may think that the games are overpriced but if you can find a working cartridge of Secret of Mana for $8, that is impressive.

Overall the Wii is a great system on it's own. It isn't as powerful as the PS360 nor does it have similar capabilities but it is definately worth the price of admission.

[crunchewy]

The Wii does have great games, definitely, but it is time for the new system. I've been ready for it, and I'm anxious for it to arrive. Yes, I want HD. Yes, I want (much) better online. Not just online games, but online in general, which is one place the Xbox gets things totally right - for example I love how I can check on friends via a web browser, queue up demos and even buy games via web browser. I like that, due to that integration, I can use Raptr to track my Xbox play, and even post stuff to twitter automatically as a result of that. Etc. I hope Nintendo takes a cue from the Xbox when it comes to online. There's no shame in borrowing. Borrow the good stuff and add new good stuff.

I'd also add that the Xbox gets parental controls much better, with one exception. The xbox gives much better control over what I can let me kids do. The exception to this is that the Xbox has a confusing layout of menus and such, which is no shock - this is Microsoft we are talking about. Still, and again, Nintendo should borrow from the Xbox, and make it better/easier to use.

Also, for gods sake, don't have a friend code tied to the system, like they did with the 3DS. I think that was a mistake with the 3DS because when I get one I'm going to want to share it with my kids and a single friend code has to be shared. So they can't have a separate friends list and separate settings. It's pretty ridiculously stupid, and it's going to be even worse if they go that route with Cafe. Let's hope they get a clue.

[shrike4242]

Good to see that the conversation turned back to something more rational, after removing some very irrational posts.

[Sir_Fragalot]

The Wii does have great games, definitely, but it is time for the new system. I've been ready for it, and I'm anxious for it to arrive. Yes, I want HD. Yes, I want (much) better online. Not just online games, but online in general, which is one place the Xbox gets things totally right - for example I love how I can check on friends via a web browser, queue up demos and even buy games via web browser. I like that, due to that integration, I can use Raptr to track my Xbox play, and even post stuff to twitter automatically as a result of that. Etc. I hope Nintendo takes a cue from the Xbox when it comes to online. There's no shame in borrowing. Borrow the good stuff and add new good stuff.

I'd also add that the Xbox gets parental controls much better, with one exception. The xbox gives much better control over what I can let me kids do. The exception to this is that the Xbox has a confusing layout of menus and such, which is no shock - this is Microsoft we are talking about. Still, and again, Nintendo should borrow from the Xbox, and make it better/easier to use.



What they need to do is implement the features of the X-box with the ease of navigation of the Playstation's menu system. One reason I love my playstation is because it's so easy to navigate and find stuff. Still, anything is an improvement over what they have now :lol:

[uncle5555]

I wish my failures sold 80+ million units, are number one in software sales, profits, hardware reliability, and set the new standard controls for a generation.

Nintendo isnt perfect, but this failure business is always weird.



Except, they aren't....just look at the monthly sales charts in US (when released) and JPN and Wii hardware and software are not frequent visitors to the top 10. (those spots are normally held by 3DS/PSP/PS3, in JPN at least, otherwise it's X360 and PS3 in the US)

Again, even if I have to repeat this 1000 times in the Wii section.

Marketshare =/= Mindshare

I don't care how you split it, if your core game buyers ignore your system and don't buy games, you're not being successful, hell Iwata himself just said recently that they screwed up without 3rd parties, I mean how much more evidence do you want than that, if even Nintendo's President says the Wii wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be, since their publishing partners quit supporting them.

The Wii2 / Cafe wouldn't be ready for release next year if Nintendo had enough faith in the Wii to keep going with it. Sad thing is between the main games we're waiting on to be announced at E3 for the Wii, there are even more really good titles coming out, most have been posted in this section, but Nintendo could do major amounts of good will / shows of good faith just by releasing at least 50% of the list I provided below to show fans that they still care enough to bring quality titles out to the loyal fans who've still supported them.

(A small note: On the list below, some games are rumored, still in development, or have no chance in hell in coming here, I listed them for the sake of completeness)

Pandora's Tower, Kirby, Zelda, Last Story, Xenoblade, Zangeki No Reginleiv, Earth Seeker, Dragon Quest X, Dragon Quest I, II & III, Dragon Quest Monsters Battle Road, Another Code R, Captain Rainbow, Fatal Frame 4, Zelda Anniversary Collection

I know JRPG's don't have the same impact as they've had in the past, but it would go along way for Nintendo do pull a Sony and support the Wii up to and after the Wii2/Cafe has been released and this is one way to do it, by releasing some of these games on this list I provided. They all might not be million sellers, but I think they could break even on them with enough marketing, but the more important thing it would show the fans that hey we're not abandoning you and we won't pull a fast one like we've done for the last two systems and cancel or move development of the games to our next system. But the point is why kill what you have out there and could potentially reap benefits from by doing that and not taking advantage of the high quality software being developed towards the (premature) end of the systems life cycle.

Like most systems that hit their 5 year mark the Wii is just starting to hit their stride where developers know how to exploit the system and realize the potential of the hardware, and now Nintendo is ready to send that hardware off to the gallows, makes you think it isn't the best decision they could make is it? I mean seriously you look at most of the games on that list, would anyone have thought games of that caliber could have been released that looked like that or had the potential of these titles were even possible two years ago? I can honestly say I didn't, can you?

Because as you've said if you have an 80 million install base, why start from scratch again when the systems are already out there in people's homes, all you need to do is convince them to buy the software now. Big challenge, but I'm sure they're up for it, if they want to try and more importantly care to do it.


Good to see that the conversation turned back to something more rational, after removing some very irrational posts.

That's why I only poked my head in here occasionally because some regulars get a bit passionate and defensive even against others who want to talk about what could have been done better, even though they believe Nintendo can do no wrong.

[confoosious]

what's amusing is that core gamers still think of themselves as the big fish. It's the family entertainment dollars that everyone is going for, even Microsoft and Sony.

[foltzie]

What they need to do is implement the features of the X-box with the ease of navigation of the Playstation's menu system. One reason I love my playstation is because it's so easy to navigate and find stuff. Still, anything is an improvement over what they have now :lol:

The PS3 menu? That thing is an abomination only exceeded, by... well... the Xbox 360 interface.

Just keep the Wii TV style interface, but with perhaps a preview screen on the left or rightmost third and dynamically load things there.

[crunchewy]

One thing I really like about the Wii's interface, and which blows the 360 away, is that I can arrange the "dashboard" however the hell I want. If I want to put my favorite download game at the upper left, I can do that. One thing that happens to me on the Xbox is that I end up forgetting I even have a download game because it's effectively disappeared. You can find it, but only alphabetically, and with all the stuff I download on the Xbox it's a mess.

[Josh5890]

One thing I really like about the Wii's interface, and which blows the 360 away, is that I can arrange the "dashboard" however the hell I want. If I want to put my favorite download game at the upper left, I can do that. One thing that happens to me on the Xbox is that I end up forgetting I even have a download game because it's effectively disappeared. You can find it, but only alphabetically, and with all the stuff I download on the Xbox it's a mess.

Agreed. I have one wpage dedicated to just NES games (not including my favorites, which are on the front page.)

[foltzie]

One thing I really like about the Wii's interface, and which blows the 360 away, is that I can arrange the "dashboard" however the hell I want. If I want to put my favorite download game at the upper left, I can do that. One thing that happens to me on the Xbox is that I end up forgetting I even have a download game because it's effectively disappeared. You can find it, but only alphabetically, and with all the stuff I download on the Xbox it's a mess.

You can move the top left window now? That was the one that was locked for the Disk animations.

[crunchewy]

You can move the top left window now? That was the one that was locked for the Disk animations.

Doh! Ok, not the top left. :)

[foltzie]

Agreed. I have one wpage dedicated to just NES games (not including my favorites, which are on the front page.)

iOS style stacks would be a nice improvement.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Except, they aren't....just look at the monthly sales charts in US (when released) and JPN and Wii hardware and software are not frequent visitors to the top 10.

There's a lot less now (in the US charts) since NPD has changed the reporting. Before, when sales were separated by title AND platform, Wii was seriously tearing things up. Now, though, that they combine platforms when naming a title, they can put the CoDs and the Rock Bands and the Battlefields and the Medals of Honor at the number one spot a little more often, and the Wii-only titles get pushed down a bit.

I'll concede Japan just because I don't know, and don't care enough to find out.

Quick edit: Well, coincidentially, I just saw Japan Sales (mediacrate) from 2-8 May. 13 of the top 20 go to the portables, 5 Wii, and 2 PS3.

[Sir_Fragalot]

what's amusing is that core gamers still think of themselves as the big fish. It's the family entertainment dollars that everyone is going for, even Microsoft and Sony.

This is the truth right here. There is nothing we as gamers can do about it either (unless you can convince 10,000,000 people to not buy call of duty). The problem is the cost of developing a game is so fucking high now, that there is no point trying to target to a smaller audience.

[uncle5555]

what's amusing is that core gamers still think of themselves as the big fish. It's the family entertainment dollars that everyone is going for, even Microsoft and Sony.

Dunno why I even debate it anymore....:drool:

(even if the post wasn't directly in response to what I said...still. I personally think it was though)

Anyway...

When Mr. Casual buys 2-3 games a year vs. Mr. Core who buys 10-15 games a year, who do you want as your main customer???

It takes 5 casuals to equal 1 core gamer, I don't understand the mentality of there are more of them (casuals) or that cores are ENTITLED to something (which I've been reading a lot of lately)....

I'd bet big money of core gamers abandoned gaming the industry would implode like something you couldn't even imagine. The only games left would be Farmville and some deviant version of Sudoku. Especially if it keeps going the way that you predict.

Ya know, I'll just let Mr. Iwata do the talkin' for me here, maybe it'll resonante with people better if it comes from a more well known source, to discuss losing 3rd parties and gaining the core market back.

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/05/night-cap-iwata-discusses-3rd-parties-wii-successor-software-releases-and-more.html

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/index.html

This is the truth right here. There is nothing we as gamers can do about it either (unless you can convince 10,000,000 people to not buy call of duty). The problem is the cost of developing a game is so fucking high now, that there is no point trying to target to a smaller audience.

But if your core audience is the one who's mostly buying call of duty, then I don't see what you're getting at, I'm sure Johnny Casual isn't dropping big dime on the latest and greatest FPS coming down the pipeline (least not that I've seen personally and online, that isn't the case).

[Corvin]

what's amusing is that core gamers still think of themselves as the big fish. It's the family entertainment dollars that everyone is going for, even Microsoft and Sony.

What's amusing is that you think they aren't. I'd argue the exact opposite, at least, in regards to home consoles.

Think about it. The core gamers are the ones that line up on release day with hundreds in hand, some for multiple consoles in the same generation(even multiple consoles for the whole house). Core gamers are the ones that buy multiple launch titles. Core gamers are the ones that buy DLC. Core gamers buy XBLA, PSN, VC and WiiWare games weekly. Core gamers buy RB tunes weekly. Core gamers buy a shit ton of accessories. Core gamers buy a new game regularly(monthly?). Core gamers pay for online services like Live or PS+. Core gamers subscribe to other services offered because of your console(Netflix, Hulu+, MLB, Qriocity, etc).

See where I'm going with this? None of that can be said for casuals. There might be 30 million baby boomers who bought a Wii to play Wii Sports, but what else have they bought? Wii Fit? Mario Kart? Just take your average CoD map pack. I think the last one for World at War sold 7 million in the first week alone. That is $105 million of pure revenue. Sure, MS and Sony get a cut, but there is no packaging or distribution costs. Marketing overhead is minuscule compared to a retail release. Will the baby boomer who just got a Wii 3 years ago be lining up for the Wii2 next year? Not a chance. Are these casuals savvy enough to network their console to buy downloadable games or Rock Band tunes?

So I'd say in sheer numbers, sure, casuals have the edge, but where it matters, i.e. money spent on gaming as a hobby, the core crowd puts the casuals to shame.

If you ran a company would you rather have 100 people that buy nothing more than your console or 20 people that will buy your console, buy games monthly, pay for your online service, and buy DLC on a regular basis?

Is 'core' the only way to go? No, you need a healthy balance to appeal to everyone. Are MS and Sony going after casuals? Sure, it fills a void in their platforms, but it's not the end-all, be-all.

[Sir_Fragalot]

But if your core audience is the one who's mostly buying call of duty, then I don't see what you're getting at, I'm sure Johnny Casual isn't dropping big dime on the latest and greatest FPS coming down the pipeline (least not that I've seen personally and online, that isn't the case).
I think it is how I actually view casuals and core gamers, probably a mix up. I consider core gamers to be like the cag community. Well informed people who make smart decisions when buying a game. I consider casuals to be ones who only buy games like call of duty, halo, madden, etc just because they are popular. Either way I strongly feel gaming is trying appeal to that crowd now, the crowd that only buys 1-2 games a year in an attempt pick up more sales (Well the Western devs anyway).

[vherub]

I don't know if core gamers really are the bedrock of software sales.
If you define the cag community as core gamers, the harsh truth then is cag/gamers are destroying the industry, myself included. Casual gamers are more likely to be buying games at full price, without coupons, without flipping, without maximizing deals or getting the best of store discounts. So if a core gamer is buying many more games a year, but they are often used, clearance/pricedrop or the occassional aaa title at release (but $5-10 off full retail and getting a coupon on top) it's not automatically a better consumer than someone buying 1 or 2 titles a year at full price.
I would like to think that core gamers are buying more of dlc and online sales, but I think that is a failure of ms, sony and nintendo to reach the consumer. If you look at sites like bigfish, shockwave or amazon/apple, the bulk of those online sales are going to casual gamers. Many (all?) of those gamers would enjoy playing tons of psn, xbla or wiiware games, but there is a failure to connect game and casual gamer. If I bought a wii for wii sports, I am totally in the dark about what other good games to get. There is a huge information barrier to anyone who doesn't follow the industry.

[Corvin]

I don't know if core gamers really are the bedrock of software sales.
If you define the cag community as core gamers, the harsh truth then is cag/gamers are destroying the industry, myself included. Casual gamers are more likely to be buying games at full price, without coupons, without flipping, without maximizing deals or getting the best of store discounts. So if a core gamer is buying many more games a year, but they are often used, clearance/pricedrop or the occassional aaa title at release (but $5-10 off full retail and getting a coupon on top) it's not automatically a better consumer than someone buying 1 or 2 titles a year at full price.

Fair point but the CAG user base (what, a few thousand?) is a drop in the bucket compared to the 100+ million console owners out there. Even factoring in our cheap asses, there are many AAA games that we still buy Day 1 because we have to have it, deal or not. Not many people will hold out on CoD or Halo because there isn't a deal. Same goes for DLC and XBLA/PSN games. Hell, there are rarely deals on day one for AAA Nintendo titles.

I do agree that there is a barrier between the console owner and the online services. Well, Wii and PS3 anyway. MS nailed it with the past couple dash updates in that regard. They have almost too much content right at your fingertips. Just clicking around and exploring things will tell you what you need to know.

[pochaccoheaven]

the wii was a great console until nintendo decided to abandon it like a year or two ago. when the wii first came out, it was something we never had before. we got new experiences and new gameplay to interact with video games. when everyone played resident evil 4 wii, we were all wowed by how better it was with a motion controller as opposed to a dual pad. or how we would play sports games differently now that it would be more involved as opposed to pressing a button. or how we can have flying games without gimmicky analog controllers. so people bought the wii because it was something fresh and innovative.

with the 360/ps3, it was an upgraded ps2/xbox. no one wants an upgrade because it didn't do much. better graphics and sound meant it was "cheap". a lot of developers were interested in making ps3/360 games because they were "easy" to make. since the ps3/360 were about graphics and sound, it meant as a developer you wouldn't have to work as hard because your work would be around graphics and sound.

i still remember when sega released virtua tennis and asking myself, who would want to play a tennis game with a controller when you can use a motion controller like on the wii. there is no edge on the controller. even worse is how people liked playing shooters with a controller. i notice my aim is a lot faster and accurate in resident evil 4 wii than on the gamecube.

i still can't comprehend the idea of charging people to use online feature of a console. very weird. on the wii, ps3 and pc you have free online features in games. yet, 360 gamers are suckerd into paying for it. 360 gamers justify it's value, yet they seek alternatives to getting a reduce pricing on the service.

[foltzie]

the wii was a great console until nintendo decided to abandon it like a year or two ago. when the wii first came out, it was something we never had before. we got new experiences and new gameplay to interact with video games. when everyone played resident evil 4 wii, we were all wowed by how better it was with a motion controller as opposed to a dual pad. or how we would play sports games differently now that it would be more involved as opposed to pressing a button. or how we can have flying games without gimmicky analog controllers. so people bought the wii because it was something fresh and innovative.

Another Code: R - A Journey into Lost Memories
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Kensax
Kirby's Epic Yarn
Line Attack Heroes
Mario Sports Mix
Metroid: Other M
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Chibi-Robo!
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2
Pikmin
Pikmin 2
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Punch-Out!!
Sin & Punishment: Star SuccessorNA
FlingSmash
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Takuto of Magic
Wii Fit Plus
Wii Party
Wii Sports Resort

26 games published isnt too shabby. Although I'm suprised at the number that dont get ported.

[omster]

the wii was a great console until nintendo decided to abandon it like a year or two ago. when the wii first came out, it was something we never had before. we got new experiences and new gameplay to interact with video games. when everyone played resident evil 4 wii, we were all wowed by how better it was with a motion controller as opposed to a dual pad. or how we would play sports games differently now that it would be more involved as opposed to pressing a button. or how we can have flying games without gimmicky analog controllers. so people bought the wii because it was something fresh and innovative.

with the 360/ps3, it was an upgraded ps2/xbox. no one wants an upgrade because it didn't do much. better graphics and sound meant it was "cheap". a lot of developers were interested in making ps3/360 games because they were "easy" to make. since the ps3/360 were about graphics and sound, it meant as a developer you wouldn't have to work as hard because your work would be around graphics and sound.

i still remember when sega released virtua tennis and asking myself, who would want to play a tennis game with a controller when you can use a motion controller like on the wii. there is no edge on the controller. even worse is how people liked playing shooters with a controller. i notice my aim is a lot faster and accurate in resident evil 4 wii than on the gamecube.

i still can't comprehend the idea of charging people to use online feature of a console. very weird. on the wii, ps3 and pc you have free online features in games. yet, 360 gamers are suckerd into paying for it. 360 gamers justify it's value, yet they seek alternatives to getting a reduce pricing on the service.

There is so much wrong here, I'm not sure if I should even point it out.

Another Code: R - A Journey into Lost Memories
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Kensax
Kirby's Epic Yarn
Line Attack Heroes
Mario Sports Mix
Metroid: Other M
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Chibi-Robo!
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2
Pikmin
Pikmin 2
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Punch-Out!!
Sin & Punishment: Star SuccessorNA
FlingSmash
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Takuto of Magic
Wii Fit Plus
Wii Party
Wii Sports Resort

26 games published isnt too shabby. Although I'm suprised at the number that dont get ported.

26 is quite big, but the list is a good deal larger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Nintendo#Wii

[KingBroly]

I'm guessing Nintendo's Wii games (or at least ones released past a certain point) will render in 720p on their new console.

[ebilcanival]

In my opinion, the Wii's main advantage over the other consoles is the fact that it is a Nintendo console. I love my PS3 and 360, but they don't have anything that really compares with The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, or Super Smash Bros. They still have superb First party titles but still, nothing on par with the aforementioned titles. That being said, the third party field is where this unfair advantage levels out, as the third party games for the wii are not nearly as good as their competitors, for the most part anyhow.

[omster]

I'm guessing Nintendo's Wii games (or at least ones released past a certain point) will render in 720p on their new console.

Do the later games have a higher level rendering?

In my opinion, the Wii's main advantage over the other consoles is the fact that it is a Nintendo console. I love my PS3 and 360, but they don't have anything that really compares with The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, or Super Smash Bros. They still have superb First party titles but still, nothing on par with the aforementioned titles. That being said, the third party field is where this unfair advantage levels out, as the third party games for the wii are not nearly as good as their competitors, for the most part anyhow.

Very true. The games I have enjoyed the most on the PS3 were third party. Except for Uncharted which is excellent by the way.

[foltzie]

26 is quite big, but the list is a good deal larger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Nintendo#Wii

I did pare it down to the last two years.

[lilboo]

This whole thing saddens me so much. Some of ya'll who are calling the "haters".. haters.. need to back off a bit. A bunch of them -- myself included -- were like the Nintendo Police a few years ago when Wii came out :lol:

We had hopes and thought "oh, soon!". The only thing we got was a note on our bathroom mirror that said WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF AIDS. Ok, not that dramatic.

I just want to be excited about their games again. Super Mario Bros Wii IS exactly what we're talking about here. There was some 'waggle' involved, and the addition to making it 4 players co-op made it very Wii'ish.. but it worked. This game would have been excellent on the Gamecube even without the SHAKE CONTROLLER UP TO SPINZ! This is what they need to get back into and get there ASAP.

I love Kirby and I don't want to play as Kirby, the fuckin ball of yarn.
WHERE IS STARFOX BTW?

They reaaaaaaallly pissed me off w/ Smash Bros "ONLINE" and the online suuuuucked. Potentially an overly awesome game w/ online play.. HELL, even with the possibility of DLC!!!.. but no.

I know Nintendo needs more than just Mario, some Mario spinoffs, Zelda, Starfox, and Metroid Games. That's fine. I don't mind if they give us a Wii Music 2. THAT'S FINE. Just... let's go back to video games. We spent like 25 years playing games sitting tapping buttons, we tried something different (WAGGLEZ).. but, let's just.. leave it be.

This generation of gaming just really pissed me off. With the non-video game video games on the Wii, and everything on the PS3/360 coming out half assed, with patches and DLC like 1-2 weeks after release...:wall: Oh and then 6 months later, coming out with the FULL game at 39.99.

UGHHHHH

[omster]

I did pare it down to the last two years.

Ah. It might seem like I'm out to get you lately with my posts, but that's not what I'm trying to do.

[TheLongshot]

Fair point but the CAG user base (what, a few thousand?) is a drop in the bucket compared to the 100+ million console owners out there. Even factoring in our cheap asses, there are many AAA games that we still buy Day 1 because we have to have it, deal or not. Not many people will hold out on CoD or Halo because there isn't a deal. Same goes for DLC and XBLA/PSN games. Hell, there are rarely deals on day one for AAA Nintendo titles.

I do agree that there is a barrier between the console owner and the online services. Well, Wii and PS3 anyway. MS nailed it with the past couple dash updates in that regard. They have almost too much content right at your fingertips. Just clicking around and exploring things will tell you what you need to know.

It would be interesting to see what the breakdown of who buys what really is. Whatever it is, Nintendo seemed to judge it right for the Wii, because it has been very successful for them. "Core Gamers" can complain about being left out in the cold, but it hasn't stopped the Wii being a success overall.

[pochaccoheaven]

Another Code: R - A Journey into Lost Memories
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Kensax
Kirby's Epic Yarn
Line Attack Heroes
Mario Sports Mix
Metroid: Other M
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Chibi-Robo!
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2
Pikmin
Pikmin 2
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Punch-Out!!
Sin & Punishment: Star SuccessorNA
FlingSmash
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Takuto of Magic
Wii Fit Plus
Wii Party
Wii Sports Resort

26 games published isnt too shabby. Although I'm suprised at the number that dont get ported.

the only good games out of this list is new mario wii, donkey kong returns, wii fit plus, and wii sports resort.

metroid other m is a disaster. fling smash is a joke of a game.

[foltzie]

the only good games out of this list is new mario wii, donkey kong returns, wii fit plus, and wii sports resort.

metroid other m is a disaster. fling smash is a joke of a game.

Now now, I never passed a value proposition on the given titles,

I was merely pointing out that Nintendo published ~26 games in that period. For comparison Sony published ~24 and MSFT about ~14.

[lilboo]

Now now, I never passed a value proposition on the given titles,

I was merely pointing out that Nintendo published ~26 games in that period. For comparison Sony published ~24 and MSFT about ~14.

But quality isn't important? Had they developed 8-10 AMAZING games, that alone would be extremely important. Of that list how many were AMAZING?
Not to mention there's like 4-5 re-releases of games.

[foltzie]

But quality isn't important? Had they developed 8-10 AMAZING games, that alone would be extremely important. Of that list how many were AMAZING?
Not to mention there's like 4-5 re-releases of games.

Value is subjective, plus the cited first party titles for the PS3 and Xbox 360 featured some stinkers too.

I was merely pointing out the claim of no support was wrong. Now things do seem to be tapering in 2011.

One a subjective note, ~6-10 of those titles are stellar depending on personal preference.

[CGH]

Wii is not overreliant on fps that alone makes it stand out against its competition throw in big Ns aaa titles, resident evils, virtual console tremendous value.

[crunchewy]

I really liked Metroid Other M. Disaster? For some, it seems, but not all. I thought it was pretty great.

[Corvin]

with the 360/ps3, it was an upgraded ps2/xbox. no one wants an upgrade because it didn't do much. better graphics and sound meant it was "cheap". a lot of developers were interested in making ps3/360 games because they were "easy" to make. since the ps3/360 were about graphics and sound, it meant as a developer you wouldn't have to work as hard because your work would be around graphics and sound.

i still remember when sega released virtua tennis and asking myself, who would want to play a tennis game with a controller when you can use a motion controller like on the wii. there is no edge on the controller. even worse is how people liked playing shooters with a controller. i notice my aim is a lot faster and accurate in resident evil 4 wii than on the gamecube.

i still can't comprehend the idea of charging people to use online feature of a console. very weird. on the wii, ps3 and pc you have free online features in games. yet, 360 gamers are suckerd into paying for it. 360 gamers justify it's value, yet they seek alternatives to getting a reduce pricing on the service.

There is so much wrong here, I'm not sure if I should even point it out.


Yeah, I don't have the energy to even bother. :lol: He's proven in multiple threads that he's just a troll anyway and doesn't know jack about the 360 or PS3.

This whole thing saddens me so much. Some of ya'll who are calling the "haters".. haters.. need to back off a bit. A bunch of them -- myself included -- were like the Nintendo Police a few years ago when Wii came out :lol:


Amen to that.

[crunchewy]

Oh, I also, really, really liked Excitebots: Trick Racing. That's probably my favorite racing game on any platform for quite some time. That game is a riot.

[confoosious]

I really liked Metroid Other M. Disaster? For some, it seems, but not all. I thought it was pretty great.

me too. the cut scenes of Samus' background were kinda dumb but I thought the game was fun as hell.

[pochaccoheaven]

fling smash was a total garbage. i played it during a visit to the nintendo store and felt that it was gimmicky with the use of the motion plus controller. besides, we already have a motion plus controller sampler game, wii resort, and nintendo is still providing samplers. the fling smash combo felt like a miss opportunity for nintendo on releasing a killer game that would have benefitted well with the add-on. even worse is how nintendo will still continue with sampler games as they intend to release wii play motion with the controller combo [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W4S1S8/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001TOQ8NO&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=02NZP2XJC0RPJ80FKYBG ]

i don't know if nintendo gets it, but we, as wii owners and gamers, don't want these sample games. we want games that's not a gimmick or beyond expectations.

[lilboo]

I still can't believe it can't play DVDs. I don't care about custom firmware. That's not the point and DVD players are EXTREMELY cheap these days so it's not like all of us really need that 5th, 6th or 7th DVD player.... but STILL.

Just wanted to chime in again

[confoosious]

I still can't believe it can't play DVDs. I don't care about custom firmware. That's not the point and DVD players are EXTREMELY cheap these days so it's not like all of us really need that 5th, 6th or 7th DVD player.... but STILL.

Just wanted to chime in again

would you be willing to pay the extra fee?

[lilboo]

would you be willing to pay the extra fee?

What, a quarter?

[confoosious]

What, a quarter?

:roll:

[lilboo]

:roll:

If people were able to enable it custom firmware -- where is this "extra cost" coming in? Explain.

[confoosious]

If people were able to enable it custom firmware -- where is this "extra cost" coming in? Explain.

You ever hear of licensing costs?

Yeah, when you hack the wii to play pirated games, you don't have to pay a DVD license. Go figure.

[lilboo]

So how much would we be talking from the initial $250? Are we talking putting it OVER $300, as in possibly $350+? I mean, "additional costs" can mean anything. It could be $10, or it could be $100. If it WAS $100, then of course not.

But let's be honest here: PS2, if I recall correctly debuted in the year 2000 with an MSRP of $299.99. This is $50 more than the Wii. This is also 6 years before the Wii. PS2 came out when DVDs were just starting to be mainstream..and DVD players couldn't be found for $30 or less at Walmart like we can today.

So unless I'm missing something, it really could not have been that much more expensive.

[confoosious]

It's probably around $5. Per console.

86M consoles x $5 = $430M dollars.

What % of the buyers actually gave a shit about DVD playback. Sure it wouldve been nice but if I'm nintendo, I'd take $430M all day long over a handful of bitchy consumers asking for DVD playback when the vast majority never even thought about it. Everyone has a DVD player these days. I don't ever remember thinking "man, I really need my wii to play DVDs!"

Nintendo originally planned on it but since they were flying off the shelves, there was no point in making anything other than dvd-incapable wiis.

It's not exactly a piddly cost as you so flippantly suggested.

[lilboo]

I'm sure the Wii would have sold just as insanely well at $259.99 to make up for that $5 charge to the Wii. It's not even about having a DVD player like I originally said. It just seems silly that it doesn't have it.

[confoosious]

I'm sure the Wii would have sold just as insanely well at $259.99 to make up for that $5 charge to the Wii. It's not even about having a DVD player like I originally said. It just seems silly that it doesn't have it.

ugh, you just don't get it.

They already put the price at $250. They weren't gonna raise it just to give you DVD playback because NOBODY CARED. And if you can't raise the price and nobody cares, why would you take on an additional $5 per unit cost?

This is exactly what Microsoft did with the first xbox. You could only play DVDs if you bought the remote and dongle for like $15 bucks. That's how they passed on the cost of the licensing to you.

If Nintendo did the same thing, people wouldve bitched left and right for not including DVD playback in the original $250 cost. They were flying off the shelves at $250. Yes, they wouldve flown off the shelves at $260. But nobody wants to do that. That's a horrible PR move.

Thank god you don't work in a business.

[omster]

$5? I can seem to find a single source of how much the actually costs are. I'm curious to know.

Fortunately, I have a PS3 so didn't have use for a Wii dvd player, but otherwise, it would have been very annoying. I'm probably only going with the Nintendo console next gen, so I do want it included in the system though.

[confoosious]

But $5 is about right. Google DVD licensing costs and you'll see.

Even if it was half that, it would still be $215M they saved by not including it.

To be honest, I can't remember the last time I actually played a regular DVD. Is Nintendo using the same disc format as the newly updated 360 drive firmware? I doubt the next nintendo will play blu ray.

[lilboo]

ugh, you just don't get it.

They already put the price at $250. They weren't gonna raise it just to give you DVD playback because NOBODY CARED. And if you can't raise the price and nobody cares, why would you take on an additional $5 per unit cost?

This is exactly what Microsoft did with the first xbox. You could only play DVDs if you bought the remote and dongle for like $15 bucks. That's how they passed on the cost of the licensing to you.

If Nintendo did the same thing, people wouldve bitched left and right for not including DVD playback in the original $250 cost. They were flying off the shelves at $250. Yes, they wouldve flown off the shelves at $260. But nobody wants to do that. That's a horrible PR move.

Thank god you don't work in a business.


:rofl:
I don't think you get it.
As each generation of consoles ends, and a new one forms-- what's important? Take things from the previous generation and going forward. It's not about "I can't play a crappy DVD on my Wii, this is terrible".. but since it was implemented on the PS2 it should be, kinda expected.

The N64 brought us 4 ports to play 4 players on the same TV. What happens in the next gen of consoles if they go back to 2? It would be stupid, and people like you would just make eye rolling emotes and say WELLLL PEOPLE PLAY ONLINE NOW :roll:

Maybe the COST of the Wii is what really made the Wii suck so much ass. We don't get a pretty basic feature such as DVDs (again not a big deal), but we also got like 2kb of HDD space.. :lol: yes yes you can go ahead and do math and make numbers to impress to explain why they couldn't.

They could do whatever they wanted. They chose not to implement these things. It took us 2 years to be able to play games on our SD cards. Most people had their Wii memory filled within 6 months because some of us were stupid and excited for the Virtual Console.

We look at the $250 price tag compared to the then $500 PS3 and the $400 Xbox 360...and it's no surprise that it sold the insane amount of numbers that it did. But looking back, it was actually pretty expensive for what was included -- basically nothing. It was a powered up Gamecube with "motion" controls, sorta internet access, oh and a blue LED light to stimulate us when we received a message from the really annoying channels like Check Mii Out "HEY THERE'S A NEW BEST ABRAHAM LINCOLN MII CONTEST"

I've probably been one of the top 3 defenders of the Wii on this board during it's time.. but it just turned out to be a big flop.

[confoosious]

oh i get it. you're a wii hater now and you just wanted to talk out of your ass about dvd playback only costing an extra quarter. no wonder why you were so ignorant about the cost of anything.

gotcha

when you actually show that you understand anything (anything at all) about the business, I'll listen to what you have to say.

[lilboo]

oh i get it. you're a wii hater now and you just wanted to talk out of your ass about dvd playback only costing an extra quarter. no wonder why you were so ignorant about the cost of anything.

gotcha

when you actually show that you understand anything (anything at all) about the business, I'll listen to what you have to say.


All you did was argue with everyone in this thread! YOU aren't understanding that this is NOT "Wii sucks because it lacked a DVD feature". I personally DON'T care about DVD players as I probably have access to too many -- but I am NOT everyone.

At the very least they could have offered a download for a fee if someone wished to play DVDs on their Wii. Just like needing to buy the Remote for Xbox in order to play DVDs. But I'm sure "I don't understand".

Yeah, I'm a Wii hater with reason. I gave it waaaaay too many chances. I've waited for something to be just awesome, and ALMOST everything has been a complete disaster or a waste of time.

The sad part is that most of the games that I would consider fantastic, are games that would (and some can...) be played with a Gamecube controller... or ANY normal controller for that matter.

Wii fit is a lie. You step on the board and step off of the board and it's considered exercise.
Wii Play is the game that should have came with the Wii, not with Sports as Wii Play was just an awful tech demo.
Wii Fit Plus is a rip off, plain and simple.
Wii Motion Plus, is also a rip off.
Whatever the controller is called now (with the WM+ built in) IS how it should have came out.
Wii Music is.... well, Wii Music was discussed earlier.

Basically, pretty much all of these first party games based on what the Wii can "do" and incorporate the Miis as the characters.. have all been VERY lame. These games are enjoyable for about a week. I think out of everything, I enjoyed Wii Bowling and the "Aerobics" game on Wii Fit the most.

Games I've enjoyed such as Mario Kart, Zack & Wiki, Super Paper Mario, Super Mario Bros Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 can be played just fine without gimmick. THE only game that REALLY implemented the Wii'ness correctly was Metroid Prime 3, which of course then meant Metroid Prime 1, 2, and then eventually the Triology.

When you get off your high horse and listen to what others say, maybe we'll listen to you. We get it, you probably had an awesome professor in your Business or Economics class and he was a great influence in your life and you are THE expert on the business world. Go get a job for Nintendo if you are the expert. Let the rest of us people in the real world be disappointed in which something we were very hopeful for.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

The N64 brought us 4 ports to play 4 players on the same TV.

The PS2 came along nearly 4 years later, with 2 ports. 'twas a total flop, the PS2 was.

I've probably been one of the top 3 defenders of the Wii on this board during it's time.. but it just turned out to be a big flop.

I can't tell you that your opinion is wrong, because it's an opinion, but it does look like you're defining success and flop differently for each console. I don't think you'd ever have been satisfied with the Wii.

I personally DON'T care about DVD players as I probably have access to too many

But you keep bringing it up! :)

[lilboo]

The PS2 came along nearly 4 years later, with 2 ports. 'twas a total flop, the PS2 was.



I can't tell you that your opinion is wrong, because it's an opinion, but it does look like you're defining success and flop differently for each console. I don't think you'd ever have been satisfied with the Wii.



But you keep bringing it up! :)

Yes that's true, but eventually the PS2 came out with the multi tap. It at least offered the option!

Wii is a success by the amount it sold, and how much ridiculous coverage it got all over the media (though, that can easily be paid for). No doubt that the Wii was a big deal this generation and I wouldn't combat that arguement at all. The topic of this thread is called Wii: A Great Console This Generation. This is where I disagree. Over the years, how many people had iPods that were clearly overpriced and lacked the features the other MP3 players on the market had? The iPod is very successful since we once called MP3 players.. MP3 players. Now, the general public (or old people trying to be hip) call MP3 players iPods or iPhones. It doesn't mean that the iPods are great! (I'll stop there because at one point it can turn into a Shuffle vs Nano vs Normal vs Touch debate, lol)

I tried to like what the Wii offered me. I was a bit bummed at first when playing Wii Sports for the first time, because it didn't feel like this is how it should have been played. But, I was optimistic! How could I judge the entire console and the rest of the life of the console based on my first few game experiences?! They could only go higher, right?! ..and they sorta did, but never that high.

I was really excited about the Virtual Console -- but wait, we have like no room for the games?!?! THIS was my biggest complaint about the console. I would let the lousy graphics slip by because "Well, they are working on a new kind of system.. let's give them time..." or when the controls just didn't work "Well, motion controls are new.. maybe if there's a sequel it'll be better...".......but there was no justifying advertising your system with the classic game download service, and providing little room. See, had this been offered late in the console's life, THEN I could understand not having much space on our system. But it didn't happen like that.. and then they release WiiWare games which take more space and all we could do is put the games away in our toybox aka SD card :wall:

Some of the game saves were pretty large too! This sucked because SOME of the large ones you couldn't even move to an SD card!!!

And yes, I bring up the DVD player because a lot of people DID ask for this in the beginning. 2006 was very different than 2011, which is kind of scary. People still watched DVDs and wouldn't have minded having another option to play something on. I'm thinking about all of the old people that they sold Wiis too, and for those parents who put the Wii in the kids bedroom, or a gameroom that didn't have a DVD player. Just saying it would have been just a nice extra feature for those who would want to use it.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Yes that's true, but eventually the PS2 came out with the multi tap. It at least offered the option!

It offered 4 player gameplay like Gamecube offered online. ;)

Wii is a success by the amount it sold, and how much ridiculous coverage it got all over the media (though, that can easily be paid for). No doubt that the Wii was a big deal this generation and I wouldn't combat that arguement at all. The topic of this thread is called Wii: A Great Console This Generation. This is where I disagree. Over the years, how many people had iPods that were clearly overpriced and lacked the features the other MP3 players on the market had? The iPod is very successful since we once called MP3 players.. MP3 players. Now, the general public (or old people trying to be hip) call MP3 players iPods or iPhones. It doesn't mean that the iPods are great! (I'll stop there because at one point it can turn into a Shuffle vs Nano vs Normal vs Touch debate, lol)

I rather like my iPod, but it's dated (5th gen before they named them "classic"). But again, I won't call your opinion wrong, because opinions cannot be. Mostly. :)


And yes, I bring up the DVD player because a lot of people DID ask for this in the beginning. 2006 was very different than 2011, which is kind of scary. People still watched DVDs and wouldn't have minded having another option to play something on. I'm thinking about all of the old people that they sold Wiis too, and for those parents who put the Wii in the kids bedroom, or a gameroom that didn't have a DVD player. Just saying it would have been just a nice extra feature for those who would want to use it.

There's a flip side to that philosophy, though. PS3 does the whole all in one thing. And it does a good job, but when it came out, it was a hell of a hit to the pocketbook. The 360 does a decent job of being the all-in-one solution (lacking Blu-Ray, but I understand the decision to only have DVD). And they REALLY had a rough go in the beginning with substandard manufacturing and/or hardware and/or design. The Wii didn't do all that. It plays games, which frankly, I appreciate. They focused on one thing (game playing), and innovate upon that. If the other consoles were software, programmers would say they suffered from bloat/"feature creep."

besides, counting in my head, I have at least 9 DVD players accessible IN THIS HOUSE. (3 connected to TVs, 2 in desktop computers, 3 in laptops, and my 360 -- this isn't counting the 1 set-top and the PS2 sitting in storage in the garage). Don't really care for more. If one I'm using breaks, I use another available or replace it for $20-ish.

I'm not saying you're wrong... and acknowledging your OPINION is indeed valid. :)

[confoosious]

Iron Clad Burrito is a much more diplomatic person than I am.

I personally think anyone whose opinions are based on ignorance are not valid.

Look, if you're gonna argue that the wii should have dvd playback, fine. But if your argument is based on the fact that it would only cost them a quarter, then your argument holds no water.

[lilboo]

I said it once as a joke.
L2 understand sarcasm.

But I guess defending the Wii simply to defend it is all that matters. Anyone who disagrees is a troll. That's all.

[chimpmeister]

Iron Clad Burrito is a much more diplomatic person than I am.

I personally think anyone whose opinions are different from mine are not valid.

Fixed. :bow::lol:

[lilboo]

It offered 4 player gameplay like Gamecube offered online. ;)

:wall: But not everyone played online or had the access to online. This was the year 2000. Many many many things have changed since then.


I rather like my iPod, but it's dated (5th gen before they named them "classic"). But again, I won't call your opinion wrong, because opinions cannot be. Mostly. :)

Yes, you like you're iPod. I like my iPod too. This is not a question of MY liking vs YOUR liking. Read forums dated prior to the iPod touch/iPhone -- even on THESE boards. There's a lot of Apple hate. A lot of people didn't like iTunes as they felt it was too restrictive. Some people didn't like that most MP3 players on the market had an FM radio tuner, and yet the iPod didn't. I think the new iPod nano has it now, so I just saved you "The new iPod nano has it now ;)". This is the same concept with the Wii with the DVD playback. It's not an important feature, but if it can be offered with others, why not?

It plays games, which frankly, I appreciate. They focused on one thing (game playing), and innovate upon that.

And right there is why so many people are disappointed with the Wii. We all were stimulated like sheep because they used the words innovation a lot during the beginning. Shaking a controller is NOT innovating. I shake my hand up and down my penis when I'm horny. Most games that aren't Motion+, have these waggle motions -- you just have to move the controller to win. Maybe you think shaking the controller is so fun and innovating -- that's fine!! -- but a lot of us think it's silly and it's not really playing a game.[/quote]


besides, counting in my head, I have at least 9 DVD players accessible IN THIS HOUSE. (3 connected to TVs, 2 in desktop computers, 3 in laptops, and my 360 -- this isn't counting the 1 set-top and the PS2 sitting in storage in the garage). Don't really care for more. If one I'm using breaks, I use another available or replace it for $20-ish.

Good for you. I have a few too. News flash: We aren't everyone.

[confoosious]

Fixed. :bow::lol:

so you're saying that when you base an opinion on a fact that's wrong, it's still valid. Yeah, that sounds exactly like something you'd back.


I said it once as a joke.
L2 understand sarcasm.

Any time I'm wrong about something, I chalk it up to sarcasm too. Works ALL the time. :applause:

[seanr1221]

Guys, don't bother arguing with Confoosious.

[bsesb2003]

All three are about even. I have all three, so no fanboy of any. I use the 360 the most, then the PS3, then the Wii.

The Wii was a great mainstream console, but no real multiplayer, very little for the hardcore gamer, no HD capability, and lots of shovelware.

The 360 did a lot right, but of course the consoles broke, and broke often.

The PS3 ushered in BluRay, much like the PS2 ushered in DVD, was a really advanced piece of hardware, but the console was too expensive, the Move too derivative, the online experience lacking, and ultimately the big hack of the PSN.

I'd say if MSFT could have gotten handle on the RROD sooner, they could have been proclaimed the winner.

[lilboo]

All three are about even.

The Wii was a great mainstream console, but no real multiplayer, verry litle for the hardcore gamer, and lots of shovelware.

The 360 did a lot right, but of course the consoles broke, and broke often.

The PS3 ushered in BluRay, much like the PS2 ushered in DVD, but the console was too expensive, the Move too derivative, the online experience lacking, and ultimately the big hack of the PSN.

I kinda disagree, actually.
The Wii does have a bunch of multiplayer games. Though you said "real" multiplayer games. This may mean online or some local co-op. Regardless, they do have a bunch of party games and SOME are pretty amusing for those random gatherings.

The 360 got everything right this generation. Yeah, consoles broke at the beginning .. but they did eventually get better. It's been a few years since I've heard about MASS red ring of deaths.

I agree with you on the PS3 thing. I wouldn't call the hack something that has ruined the console for this generation, but everything else I would agree with.

[confoosious]

All three are about even. I have all three, so no fanboy of any. I use the 360 the most, then the PS3, then the Wii.

The Wii was a great mainstream console, but no real multiplayer, very little for the hardcore gamer, no HD capability, and lots of shovelware.

The 360 did a lot right, but of course the consoles broke, and broke often.

The PS3 ushered in BluRay, much like the PS2 ushered in DVD, was a really advanced piece of hardware, but the console was too expensive, the Move too derivative, the online experience lacking, and ultimately the big hack of the PSN.

I'd say if MSFT could have gotten handle on the RROD sooner, they could have been proclaimed the winner.

I think even with the RROD issue, the xbox was the clear winner this generation. Great online play, lots of "core" titles. Parents bought a lot of Arcade units for their kids. A decent list of "kids" games. Convinced everyone and their mother to buy a kinect. Generally sells the most in cross-platform games.

Wii clearly just cleaned up from a profit standpoint.

Sony seems to have come in third and will have to repair their image (fear?) with some skittish gamers who've never heard of prepaid PSN cards.

[bsesb2003]

I kinda disagree, actually.
The Wii does have a bunch of multiplayer games. Though you said "real" multiplayer games. This may mean online or some local co-op. Regardless, they do have a bunch of party games and SOME are pretty amusing for those random gatherings.

The 360 got everything right this generation. Yeah, consoles broke at the beginning .. but they did eventually get better. It's been a few years since I've heard about MASS red ring of deaths.

I agree with you on the PS3 thing. I wouldn't call the hack something that has ruined the console for this generation, but everything else I would agree with.

I mean online. The Wii is basically a juiced N64 with motion controls. It did great but Nintendo really hasn't had a console with many strong 3rd party games since the SNES. The lack of on-line multiplayer and HD is a big minus.

Sony's advantage was that its console was well made as compared to the 360 and technically superior to both. Sony may have sacrificed too much to get the BluRay in there. The PS3 did help establish the BlueRay, but at what cost -- the trend seems to be towards streaming video, even if its only 720p and not 1080p.

[confoosious]

I think Sony did just fine on their bluray investment. Remember, a lot of people are behind the curve. So while the people who paid $600 for their bluray player when it first came have moved onto streaming, there are still tons of people buying bluray movies at their local walmart/bestbuy/target.

[pochaccoheaven]

So how much would we be talking from the initial $250? Are we talking putting it OVER $300, as in possibly $350+? I mean, "additional costs" can mean anything. It could be $10, or it could be $100. If it WAS $100, then of course not.

But let's be honest here: PS2, if I recall correctly debuted in the year 2000 with an MSRP of $299.99. This is $50 more than the Wii. This is also 6 years before the Wii. PS2 came out when DVDs were just starting to be mainstream..and DVD players couldn't be found for $30 or less at Walmart like we can today.

So unless I'm missing something, it really could not have been that much more expensive.

it's a little hard to compare nintendo to sony in terms of this because the two companies have different properties.

nintendo is nintendo, they only make video games and only video games. nintendo does not make movies, music nor computers and other tech devices. so nintendo relies heavily on outside sources to make their hardware. what it means is that it becomes more costly for nintendo to make hardware than sony.

sony is a giant corporation that is integrated in movies, music, computers[software and hardware] and electronic devices. for sony, it is cheaper to make hardware because they own these manufacturering plants or have closer relations to these chip makers. with the ps2, sony was able to sell them at that price because they make their own chip or have ties to other companies that make them cheaper for them.

the gamecube and playstation 2 question. in japan, sony and nintendo did have dvd playback consoles and both were sold at nearly the same price [around 40000 yen]. yet one was more successful than the other. what it means is that it really didn't matter much to have dvd playback on the wii because it didn't seem to worry much for consumers as they didn't really cared for it when two consumer products had the same feature. because of this, the company simply ignored it. does it matter?! yes and no because people didn't care about dvd playback and yes because there are a very few who did care.

to say the media covered the wii is a joke because the media did cover the wii. but it wasn't to praise the wii. it was to joke about the wii. there was constant speculation that the wii has sold too much and it is now market saturated. there was constant news about how the wii lacked a hard drive which prevented companies from providing downloadable content. there was media coverage of how the wii would fail during the holiday season sales. when motion plus was released, there was media coverage how the feature should have been implemented. so yes there was media coverage, but it wasn't good coverage, it was down played coverage. you had 360's going red ring of death dead year after year and you don't hear media coverage of how awful it is. nor do you hear bad media coverage of sony's ps3 problems. when the wii outsold ps3/360 during the holidays, the media would say it was the price. but when it was the ps3/360, the media would say it was due to quality software. the wii was constantly badgered for lacking high definition and even now that nintendo may release a new console and how it was a bad move of not having hd in the first place on the wii. so the media never favored nintendo and it would have not benefitted nintendo at all.

what lilboo is complaining about is that nintendo didn't deliver the goods and felt that it was a waste because a new console made by nintendo is going to be released. so lilboo is not only mad that nintendo didn't deliver the goods, but that nintendo didn't deliver their promise to those who had hopes about the wii. the wii has been out for such a long time now that there should have been some awesome made games for the wii. games like sin and punishment should have been released the first two years during the release of the wii. the fact that this game was released 4 years later and there has yet to be a game that surpasses wii sports or wii resort, shows that nintendo lacked their promise and ambition for the wii and it's owners. a game like zelda skyward sword should have been made available at the end of the year when the motion plus was released during the summer of 2009. the fact that zelda skyward sword is being released sometime in 2012 tells lilboo, myself, and all the other wii gamers and hopeful that we should all bend down and have our asses fucked. three years?! something is wrong and frankly we're just sick of it.

with the ps3/360, there is no promise nor hope for the console. it is what it is and there are no expectations from sony nor microsoft. so if the ps3/360 suck, it wouldn't matter because there wasn't any expectation nor promises. no one is expecting microsoft to make a great lasting console, nor is microsoft making any promises that they will release a product that won't be fully faulty.

[lilboo]

Even bad media, is still "good". Just simply bringing the topic of Wii is good for them, even when it's not so positive. When I was talking about the media, I was really talking about it being on the news and on a lot of talk shows :lol: But all of the negatives reported on the Wii were very right.

I still can't believe it's been 5 years. We were all sooo excited. :lol:
Looking back at everything:

I wish they would have given us more HDD space. Had it been forced (by additional cost) or selling 2 separate consoles (much like how for the longest time there were always 2-3 different bundles for PS3 and 460). They promoted the Virtual Console as a big deal -- this was their way of bringing their normal, hardcore fan base on board on top of getting into senior homes and being played at Thanksgiving by everyone.

I can't say I totally minded the graphics, as some games really did look awesome (yes, awesome for a Wii game). Some games looked almost worse than some N64 games -- and that's a huge problem. Even if a game has Gamecube quality, it's not TOTALLY bad, but to go back to the 1996-2000 era of the N64? C'mon.

Oh, and I can't even begin to get started with friend codes. Friend codes truly felt like this was 1997. It REALLY felt as if, you could have connected our Nintendo 64's to the net -- yes on dial up -- in order to register our friend codes and send our friends Miis and messages! IF this was 1997, then I would praise Nintendo for attempting to take their console online!! (I know Sega Saturn had some online play, but not really some kind of system). But it's not 1997. This shit came out in 2006. Xbox had a whole console prior to try and get Xbox Live right, and they did! If I remember, towards the end the PS2 attempted online gaming. Not sure how that went. Gamecube, with the exception of I believe Phantasy Star, stayed offline. So when the Wii came around, we got online equivalent to Juno.

Bah. I do look forward to hearing actual details about the next console. Hopefully they don't trick us again :(
Motion controls are a great idea for some games. The Wii should not have debuted as ALL MOTION CONTROLS. Despite whatever anyone's opinions are on Kinect and Move, the Wii should have Wii Remotes just like that -- accessories, so there's a lineup of games for it. IF they released the Wii mainly as a game console, and also tried to promote and keep up with their "motion control" lineup of games, I think a lot of people would have been REALLY happy. Instead of taking some games that did NOT need waggle, they could have focused on getting the controls right and making the game look as sharp as possible.

I always laugh when I try a new game because of how it's advertised with it's "Motion Controls". They promote games to be soo fun because you are making "x" motions, but so many games have broken controls. Like... all they had to do, was get the controls perfect and you have an amazing game, but nope.

GRAH. Angry now.

[omster]

Bah. I do look forward to hearing actual details about the next console. Hopefully they don't trick us again :(
Motion controls are a great idea for some games. The Wii should not have debuted as ALL MOTION CONTROLS. Despite whatever anyone's opinions are on Kinect and Move, the Wii should have Wii Remotes just like that -- accessories, so there's a lineup of games for it. IF they released the Wii mainly as a game console, and also tried to promote and keep up with their "motion control" lineup of games, I think a lot of people would have been REALLY happy. Instead of taking some games that did NOT need waggle, they could have focused on getting the controls right and making the game look as sharp as possible.

You seem to have a love-hate relationship with the Wii. I guess our differing feelings come from how we each approached the Wii. I didn't expect anything much from the Wii and found myself pleasantly surprised. You on the other hand, expected plenty, but didn't feel satisfied in the end. What were the titles that stood out to you on the Wii? Out of curiosity, since you seem to have enjoyed several games.

If the Wii remotes were like the Kinect or the Move, neither would have existed, at least to the extent of being relevant. Remember the Eye Toy? The classic controller was the accessory in the Wii's case, and it was hardly utilized either.

Also, besides DKCR, did you think the waggle hindered the games in anyway? Does that include those motion control levels in the Galaxy games? Personally, they were quite enjoyable. Sure they could've been done on something similar to the Six Axis, though I did like how the Wii remote had to be oriented in a specific way for each level respectively.

:bouncy:Lastly, I thought the iPod was the best MP3 back in it's day. Sure it didn't have some features, but the click wheel interface plus iTunes was never matched and it worked very well as a music player (before the touchscreen revolution).:bouncy:

[Corvin]

^Kirby, NSMB and Other M come to mind. Forced waggle meant tying the user to a sideways Wiimote. So Nintendo goes from one of the most comfortable controllers ever with the Wavebird to stepping back 25 years to a NES pad, just so they can toss in a couple gimmicky features. Horrible decision.

I'd absolutely toss in Galaxy. The game would still be a 10 if you removed the pointing and monkey ball levels. They add nothing to the game.

Im sure there are plenty of others, But all of these would have been better with the Wavebird.

[chimpmeister]

it's a little hard to compare nintendo to sony in terms of this because the two companies have different properties.

nintendo is nintendo, they only make video games and only video games. nintendo does not make movies, music nor computers and other tech devices. so nintendo relies heavily on outside sources to make their hardware. what it means is that it becomes more costly for nintendo to make hardware than sony.

sony is a giant corporation that is integrated in movies, music, computers[software and hardware] and electronic devices. for sony, it is cheaper to make hardware because they own these manufacturering plants or have closer relations to these chip makers. with the ps2, sony was able to sell them at that price because they make their own chip or have ties to other companies that make them cheaper for them.

the gamecube and playstation 2 question. in japan, sony and nintendo did have dvd playback consoles and both were sold at nearly the same price [around 40000 yen]. yet one was more successful than the other. what it means is that it really didn't matter much to have dvd playback on the wii because it didn't seem to worry much for consumers as they didn't really cared for it when two consumer products had the same feature. because of this, the company simply ignored it. does it matter?! yes and no because people didn't care about dvd playback and yes because there are a very few who did care.

to say the media covered the wii is a joke because the media did cover the wii. but it wasn't to praise the wii. it was to joke about the wii. there was constant speculation that the wii has sold too much and it is now market saturated. there was constant news about how the wii lacked a hard drive which prevented companies from providing downloadable content. there was media coverage of how the wii would fail during the holiday season sales. when motion plus was released, there was media coverage how the feature should have been implemented. so yes there was media coverage, but it wasn't good coverage, it was down played coverage. you had 360's going red ring of death dead year after year and you don't hear media coverage of how awful it is. nor do you hear bad media coverage of sony's ps3 problems. when the wii outsold ps3/360 during the holidays, the media would say it was the price. but when it was the ps3/360, the media would say it was due to quality software. the wii was constantly badgered for lacking high definition and even now that nintendo may release a new console and how it was a bad move of not having hd in the first place on the wii. so the media never favored nintendo and it would have not benefitted nintendo at all.

what lilboo is complaining about is that nintendo didn't deliver the goods and felt that it was a waste because a new console made by nintendo is going to be released. so lilboo is not only mad that nintendo didn't deliver the goods, but that nintendo didn't deliver their promise to those who had hopes about the wii. the wii has been out for such a long time now that there should have been some awesome made games for the wii. games like sin and punishment should have been released the first two years during the release of the wii. the fact that this game was released 4 years later and there has yet to be a game that surpasses wii sports or wii resort, shows that nintendo lacked their promise and ambition for the wii and it's owners. a game like zelda skyward sword should have been made available at the end of the year when the motion plus was released during the summer of 2009. the fact that zelda skyward sword is being released sometime in 2012 tells lilboo, myself, and all the other wii gamers and hopeful that we should all bend down and have our asses fucked. three years?! something is wrong and frankly we're just sick of it.

with the ps3/360, there is no promise nor hope for the console. it is what it is and there are no expectations from sony nor microsoft. so if the ps3/360 suck, it wouldn't matter because there wasn't any expectation nor promises. no one is expecting microsoft to make a great lasting console, nor is microsoft making any promises that they will release a product that won't be fully faulty.

Translation:

http://i54.tinypic.com/iqbxie.jpg

[pochaccoheaven]

Translation:

http://i54.tinypic.com/iqbxie.jpg

this picture is a representation of what nintendo promised with the nes and super nes. if you hear what people say about super mario brothers when it was first released, you'll notice that people would say it was something never thought of and beyond what the market had to offer. those who owned an nes experienced something new and beyond expections. games on the nes were never possible on the other consoles during it's time. this follows the same idea with the wii, that wii sports was something new and never thought of before and was never possible on the other consoles. however, there is something different with the nes and wii, the promise that nintendo made. with the nes, you had hits after the other from not only nintendo but also third party developers [metroid, kid icarus, castlevania, bionic commando, bubble bobble, etc...]. heck, even electronic arts made some pretty good sports games like skate or die and ski or die. with the wii, you had dead hits from nintendo and third party developers.

btw, notice how third parties never really complained about how their games can't compete with nintendo as opposed to today where they say their games can't compete with nintendo. how is there a discrepency today as opposed to the nes days? it really shows that third party developers today have lower standards in meeting their consumer demands as opposed to the old days. meaning, third party developers are having you pay for games that are crap. developers worked hard to make games like castlevania, bionic commando, princess tomato, etc.... which are still hits today. with games made today, they won't be hits in the next generation and the one after that because they are lame and are driven by hype.

[pochaccoheaven]

Even bad media, is still "good". Just simply bringing the topic of Wii is good for them, even when it's not so positive. When I was talking about the media, I was really talking about it being on the news and on a lot of talk shows :lol: But all of the negatives reported on the Wii were very right.

I still can't believe it's been 5 years. We were all sooo excited. :lol:
Looking back at everything:

I wish they would have given us more HDD space. Had it been forced (by additional cost) or selling 2 separate consoles (much like how for the longest time there were always 2-3 different bundles for PS3 and 460). They promoted the Virtual Console as a big deal -- this was their way of bringing their normal, hardcore fan base on board on top of getting into senior homes and being played at Thanksgiving by everyone.

I can't say I totally minded the graphics, as some games really did look awesome (yes, awesome for a Wii game). Some games looked almost worse than some N64 games -- and that's a huge problem. Even if a game has Gamecube quality, it's not TOTALLY bad, but to go back to the 1996-2000 era of the N64? C'mon.

Oh, and I can't even begin to get started with friend codes. Friend codes truly felt like this was 1997. It REALLY felt as if, you could have connected our Nintendo 64's to the net -- yes on dial up -- in order to register our friend codes and send our friends Miis and messages! IF this was 1997, then I would praise Nintendo for attempting to take their console online!! (I know Sega Saturn had some online play, but not really some kind of system). But it's not 1997. This shit came out in 2006. Xbox had a whole console prior to try and get Xbox Live right, and they did! If I remember, towards the end the PS2 attempted online gaming. Not sure how that went. Gamecube, with the exception of I believe Phantasy Star, stayed offline. So when the Wii came around, we got online equivalent to Juno.

Bah. I do look forward to hearing actual details about the next console. Hopefully they don't trick us again :(
Motion controls are a great idea for some games. The Wii should not have debuted as ALL MOTION CONTROLS. Despite whatever anyone's opinions are on Kinect and Move, the Wii should have Wii Remotes just like that -- accessories, so there's a lineup of games for it. IF they released the Wii mainly as a game console, and also tried to promote and keep up with their "motion control" lineup of games, I think a lot of people would have been REALLY happy. Instead of taking some games that did NOT need waggle, they could have focused on getting the controls right and making the game look as sharp as possible.

I always laugh when I try a new game because of how it's advertised with it's "Motion Controls". They promote games to be soo fun because you are making "x" motions, but so many games have broken controls. Like... all they had to do, was get the controls perfect and you have an amazing game, but nope.

GRAH. Angry now.

one of the problems about the wii is that it seems forced to use the motion controller. there should definitely be an option for using controllers. with the nes, you had games that uses the gun, but you aren't limited to using it as you can use a controller. it was also the same thing with dance dance revolution games, where you can use the mat or the controller. marvel ultimate alliance for instance could have the choice of a controller or motion controller.

it should be how the graphics accomodate the game. 1996-2000 graphics aren't bad. i wouldn't mind if we had another virtua cop game that has the same graphics. i don't believe many here would mind if sega released a new virtua cop game that uses similar polygonal like visuals for the game like for the saturn. i have house of the dead 2/3 on the wii and part 2 is visually entertainning.

3 years since the release of motion plus and we'll get a fully dedicated motion controller game, not some sampler games from nintendo. unbelievable. nintendo truly lost themsevles two years ago. the funny thing about the release of zelda is that it is about the only game that makes that promise and every other game is just dead. so when you look at the wii as a whole, there really is nothing there at all.

[chimpmeister]

this picture is a representation of what nintendo promised with the nes and super nes. if you hear what people say about super mario brothers when it was first released, you'll notice that people would say it was something never thought of and beyond what the market had to offer. those who owned an nes experienced something new and beyond expections. games on the nes were never possible on the other consoles during it's time. this follows the same idea with the wii, that wii sports was something new and never thought of before and was never possible on the other consoles. however, there is something different with the nes and wii, the promise that nintendo made. with the nes, you had hits after the other from not only nintendo but also third party developers [metroid, kid icarus, castlevania, bionic commando, bubble bobble, etc...]. heck, even electronic arts made some pretty good sports games like skate or die and ski or die. with the wii, you had dead hits from nintendo and third party developers.

btw, notice how third parties never really complained about how their games can't compete with nintendo as opposed to today where they say their games can't compete with nintendo. how is there a discrepency today as opposed to the nes days? it really shows that third party developers today have lower standards in meeting their consumer demands as opposed to the old days. meaning, third party developers are having you pay for games that are crap. developers worked hard to make games like castlevania, bionic commando, princess tomato, etc.... which are still hits today. with games made today, they won't be hits in the next generation and the one after that because they are lame and are driven by hype.

This is all true. So many promises unfulfilled, so many ideas never translated into good products. Nintendo better buck up and provide a QUALITY new console with GREAT (non-gimmicky) games for the true gamers who supported them early on (myself included, I have ALL their old consoles still and TONS of games for them, including perfect copies of many NES, SNES, and N64 games). Look at all the peripherals they released that proved to be failures, many shown in just that photo. If they don't get it right for this next generation home console, they're finished. They already blew it on the 3DS IMO, so this will be their last chance.

[jantzn]

I want the next evolution of Nintendo entertainment systems. Not a Wii 2.