How religious are you?

[help1]

How religious are you?

[Mr. Anderson]

Eh, I wish I could be religious, but I just don't have the willpower. Just in case I didn't make it clear, I am religious, I just don't execute it. I guess you could say I'm agnostic. I want to believe/do believe there is a God, I just don't know how to find him/her.

[Nirvanaguy777]

Not very, i use a plug in menorah for hannukah haha.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Atheist.

[opportunity777]

Zip :P

[Scorch]

And help1 has started again with the polls..

[FriskyTanuki]

Not very. I haven't been to church in about 10 years for Easter, it really sucked.

[jmcc]

Religious or spiritual? I haven't met an organized religion I've loved yet, but I definitely have a notion of transcendence that I strive for.

[SneakyPenguin]

I have a sticker that says "God sucks" on my bed.

But yea, I'm actually an atheist.

[Renzokuken]

I haven't been to church in weeks. To tell u the truth, I don't really see a purpose to it other than learning the book. To me, I use my intuition to help me view things in life(and find answers).

[Kaijufan]

Im not very religious at all.

[PhrostByte]

Atheist.

[zewone]

Not very.

[Moxio]

I don't go to the temple, but yes, I am very religious.

[help1]

wow! there are alot of atheists.......

[help1]

And help1 has started again with the polls..

Well, you see, this isn't a STUPID poll....

BTW, Im sorta religious...

[Mr. Anderson]

wow! there are alot of atheists.......

Not to stereotype, but your on a video game message board. What do you expect.

[help1]

wow! there are alot of atheists.......

Not to stereotype, but your on a video game message board. What do you expect.

True.....

[bmulligan]

I'm religious about lots of things. Do you mean religious about god? or games? or what ?

[bmulligan]

Oh shit, I should have looked to see who th OP was..........

Live and learn, I guess.

[camoor]

Born again.

and again and again and again...

[Zoltek99]

Not religious at all.

While, for the most part, religions of the world provide good teachings, in the end, religion (specifically, organized religion) is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people.

As for being personally religious, I would again say "no" with respect to pretending that through prayer I have some sort of relationship with some all-powerful being.

To me, the notion of God represents a desire to explain the unknown, so I guess in that respect I can call myself religious.

[Xevious]

I dont think man can represent god, therefore I do not subscribe to any religious organization.

[Rig]

I am religious. I am a Baptist. I go to church regularly, but I have missed the last couple Sundays, due to school.

[PawnTakesKing]

I don't like to use the term "religious." Just call me a Christian. Honestly, I don't really think of Christianity as a religion, but as more of a relationship than anything else. It's really hard to explain...I will just say that I love God and Jesus Christ with all my heart.

And video games. I love video games. Which is why I'm here. Not all Christians are the stuck-up conservative people who rally to protest anything and everything. I'm currently enjoying Halo 2 right now and it's (supposedly) one of the top ten most violent games out there.

I know I'll get a lot of flaming for talking about Christianity, but I honestly don't think I'm any better or "holier than thou." All I can say is that I have found a peace that surpasses understanding. It feels as if my life is complete. Not trying to force my beliefs down anyone's throat...just trying to discuss them in a friendly manner. :)

[PhrostByte]

I don't like to use the term "religious." Just call me a Christian. Honestly, I don't really think of Christianity as a religion, but as more of a relationship than anything else. It's really hard to explain...I will just say that I love God and Jesus Christ with all my heart.

And video games. I love video games. Which is why I'm here. Not all Christians are the stuck-up conservative people who rally to protest anything and everything. I'm currently enjoying Halo 2 right now and it's (supposedly) one of the top ten most violent games out there.

I know I'll get a lot of flaming for talking about Christianity, but I honestly don't think I'm any better or "holier than thou." All I can say is that I have found a peace that surpasses understanding. It feels as if my life is complete. Not trying to force my beliefs down anyone's throat...just trying to discuss them in a friendly manner. :)

/me turns away from writing his research paper on religion to reply to this post.

Yeah dude.. that's all great and whatnot. But the thing is, religion attracts fundamentalism more than anything else. I mean think about it.. to some people, religion is life and death. And not just life and death, but afterlife and afterdeath (huh?) too. Yaknow.. back in the days of slavery, Christianity is all those people had, they dreamed of better days. They continued to suffer (instead of revolting sooner) because they had hope that things would be better in the afterlife... This is just one example but you can see how powerful it is. Well, if you have nothing else, you take your beliefs seriously. And since they are such strong beliefs, it's difficult to accept the beliefs of others. This, as you can tell by looking at the world around you, creates problems. I'll make a short list: 9/11, Israel/Palestine, Pakistan/India, Salem Witch Trials, IRA/British rule, Nazi, Germany... it goes on, for miles :\

With some people, it's either agree or die. I often find this to be the case with Christians, maybe more subtly... no death is involved, but threats of damnation. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Jesus makes himself available to you, and if you don't believe, you're going to Hell!" It's like wtf dude relax, yaknow? -end of rant-

[mario23air]

Agnostic/Buddhist wanna-be

[tornadomann]

Im not religious at all, when i used toi have to go to church i would fall asleep. I hated church, never believed any of the bullshit in the bible and thought everyone there was whack. just my opinion.

[starman9000]

With some people, it's either agree or die. I often find this to be the case with Christians, maybe more subtly... no death is involved, but threats of damnation. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Jesus makes himself available to you, and if you don't believe, you're going to Hell!" It's like wtf dude relax, yaknow? -end of rant-

Sounds like Maverick CRV is plenty relaxed and you have a stick up your ass.

[Lootr2Core]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

[PawnTakesKing]

I don't like to use the term "religious." Just call me a Christian. Honestly, I don't really think of Christianity as a religion, but as more of a relationship than anything else. It's really hard to explain...I will just say that I love God and Jesus Christ with all my heart.

And video games. I love video games. Which is why I'm here. Not all Christians are the stuck-up conservative people who rally to protest anything and everything. I'm currently enjoying Halo 2 right now and it's (supposedly) one of the top ten most violent games out there.

I know I'll get a lot of flaming for talking about Christianity, but I honestly don't think I'm any better or "holier than thou." All I can say is that I have found a peace that surpasses understanding. It feels as if my life is complete. Not trying to force my beliefs down anyone's throat...just trying to discuss them in a friendly manner. :)

/me turns away from writing his research paper on religion to reply to this post.

Yeah dude.. that's all great and whatnot. But the thing is, religion attracts fundamentalism more than anything else. I mean think about it.. to some people, religion is life and death. And not just life and death, but afterlife and afterdeath (huh?) too. Yaknow.. back in the days of slavery, Christianity is all those people had, they dreamed of better days. They continued to suffer (instead of revolting sooner) because they had hope that things would be better in the afterlife... This is just one example but you can see how powerful it is. Well, if you have nothing else, you take your beliefs seriously. And since they are such strong beliefs, it's difficult to accept the beliefs of others. This, as you can tell by looking at the world around you, creates problems. I'll make a short list: 9/11, Israel/Palestine, Pakistan/India, Salem Witch Trials, IRA/British rule, Nazi, Germany... it goes on, for miles :\

With some people, it's either agree or die. I often find this to be the case with Christians, maybe more subtly... no death is involved, but threats of damnation. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Jesus makes himself available to you, and if you don't believe, you're going to Hell!" It's like wtf dude relax, yaknow? -end of rant-

I understand what you're saying. And yes, a lot of Christians have not been good representatives of Christianity. I just want to stress that we're not all like that.

It's fine, man. Like I said, I'm not trying to force anyone to believe what I believe or start a big debate war or anything. I'm just responding to the poll and explaining my beliefs (in hopes that some people will be open-minded and exchange friendly banter). :)

[opportunity777]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

[bmulligan]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.
So, what, you live the thug life vicariously through your web handles like "looter 2 core ?" Seems like you should be projecting a better image.

[dnt_h8me2]

I don't think this is a very good subject to talk about on this board.
But then again, we're not GameFAQ's so I guess it won't get too heated.

...Anywayz, I'm atheist. I don't beleive in any form of "God" or higher being.

[Lootr2Core]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

Oh nothing up, peaks and valleys, more busy now as basketball season has started up ( I'm coaching again....)

[opportunity777]

I don't like to use the term "religious." Just call me a Christian. Honestly, I don't really think of Christianity as a religion, but as more of a relationship than anything else. It's really hard to explain...I will just say that I love God and Jesus Christ with all my heart.

And video games. I love video games. Which is why I'm here. Not all Christians are the stuck-up conservative people who rally to protest anything and everything. I'm currently enjoying Halo 2 right now and it's (supposedly) one of the top ten most violent games out there.

I know I'll get a lot of flaming for talking about Christianity, but I honestly don't think I'm any better or "holier than thou." All I can say is that I have found a peace that surpasses understanding. It feels as if my life is complete. Not trying to force my beliefs down anyone's throat...just trying to discuss them in a friendly manner. :)

/me turns away from writing his research paper on religion to reply to this post.

Yeah dude.. that's all great and whatnot. But the thing is, religion attracts fundamentalism more than anything else. I mean think about it.. to some people, religion is life and death. And not just life and death, but afterlife and afterdeath (huh?) too. Yaknow.. back in the days of slavery, Christianity is all those people had, they dreamed of better days. They continued to suffer (instead of revolting sooner) because they had hope that things would be better in the afterlife... This is just one example but you can see how powerful it is. Well, if you have nothing else, you take your beliefs seriously. And since they are such strong beliefs, it's difficult to accept the beliefs of others. This, as you can tell by looking at the world around you, creates problems. I'll make a short list: 9/11, Israel/Palestine, Pakistan/India, Salem Witch Trials, IRA/British rule, Nazi, Germany... it goes on, for miles :\

With some people, it's either agree or die. I often find this to be the case with Christians, maybe more subtly... no death is involved, but threats of damnation. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Jesus makes himself available to you, and if you don't believe, you're going to Hell!" It's like wtf dude relax, yaknow? -end of rant-

I understand what you're saying. And yes, a lot of Christians have not been good representatives of Christianity. I just want to stress that we're not all like that.

It's fine, man. Like I said, I'm not trying to force anyone to believe what I believe or start a big debate war or anything. I'm just responding to the poll and explaining my beliefs (in hopes that some people will be open-minded and exchange friendly banter). :)

A lot of people seem to not be good representatives of their chosen faith, but there are exceptions of course ;)

[Slipknot9762]

not religious at all

[Lootr2Core]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

Ya know this is the first thread that will reveal my nickname. Lootr2Core... doesn't mean I'm into looting....


what could it mean? :wink:

[opportunity777]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

Ya know this is the first thread that will reveal my nickname. Lootr2Core... doesn't mean I'm into looting....


what could it mean? :wink:

You have a big penis?

[Lootr2Core]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

Ya know this is the first thread that will reveal my nickname. Lootr2Core... doesn't mean I'm into looting....


what could it mean? :wink:

You have a big penis?

well aside from the obvious I mean.. LOOTr

[JohnnyDrama]

I'm kinda religious, I try to go to church every weekend (either Saturday or Sunday) and I'll try to go to midnight mass this year.

[opportunity777]

Lutheran, never miss a sunday :) starman9000! I just don't know what life would be like without it.

What's up lootr, I haven't seen you on the boards lately .... probably my fault though I have been pretty damn busy.

Ya know this is the first thread that will reveal my nickname. Lootr2Core... doesn't mean I'm into looting....


what could it mean? :wink:

You have a big penis?

well aside from the obvious I mean.. LOOTr

Are you the type of guy that goes into the $5 sales and hoards like 50 copies of Gitaroo Man :)

[BABETOOTH]

Born catholic but I dont believe any of the stuff related to jesus or any superpowers. It is funny how all these miracles about turning water into wine, parting the Red Sea, Talking burning bushes, healing of criples, resurrection, etc. happened in a time where there were no Camcorders or cameras to record such events. All religions were created to promote some kind of order (thru fear or guilt) and to help explain our origins and purpose in life. My son goes to Sunday school in order to keep my relatives happy.

[whiteboy]

im Catholic by name but not spirit. I havent gone to church since like easter, (not including school masses) i only went to 2 CCD classes in 7th grade and havent gone since (im now a freshman in high school) I guess i just dont want to commit to a religion, they have so many restricting rules and they make you feel guilty for lots of crap. I guess the only reason im "catholic" is because my parents are.
I especially hate it when people say i should ask god and thank god for ridiculous things. Can't I take the shaqfuing credit for something I did?

[crazytalkx]

Im atheist.

[Limitbreaker02]

Used to be strict Catholic but backed down a bit.

[deathcabforcutie]

got saved / became a Christian just over a month ago.. and im loving every second of life now!!

[KingNES]

Born again Christian (Non denominational) and in truth I should practice alot more of what I learn. Truth be told, I am not as religious as I could be.

[pumbaa]

I'm sorta religious. I feel that it an important part of my life and that its formed who I am and how I make my deiscions to some extent. I am Christian, but I definitly try to study other religions and traditions and try to form a more universal concept of a higher power. For me, I;m Catholic because I was born Catholic. I feel like my religion is my religion because it fits me. If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal. Atheism... thats a concept that I'm not sure I'll ever be fully comfortable with. It never seemed to me like it was possible that the complexities of reality were all just some big cosmic mistake. In many ways I feel like it takes more faith to believe it was a conicidence. As far as people who don't like organized religion, I understand that completely. Some churchs, temples, and religions out there are pretty fucked up. Sorry bout that, I promise not all religious people are like that. Yeah, end rant I suppose. Just kinda typing thoughts as they come. Feel free to flame...

[zionoverfire]

Athiest but damn me if I don't love goodie goodie christian girl tail.

[opportunity777]

Athiest but damn me if I don't love goodie goodie christian girl tail.

Is your girlfriend a BAC - Born Again Christian? :)

Mine is and she used to try and convert me at first, but she gave up on that a long while back :P

[twanky]

I'm also catholic. I usually make it out to church atleast every saturday, seems pointless though.

[daria19]

I'm sorta religious. I feel that it an important part of my life and that its formed who I am and how I make my deiscions to some extent. It never seemed to me like it was possible that the complexities of reality were all just some big cosmic mistake. In many ways I feel like it takes more faith to believe it was a conicidence. As far as people who don't like organized religion, I understand that completely. Some churchs, temples, and religions out there are pretty shaq-fued up. Sorry bout that, I promise not all religious people are like that. Yeah, end rant I suppose. Just kinda typing thoughts as they come. Feel free to flame...

I am Catholic as well, but as with Pumbaa I would say that I am more "sorta religious" than a diehard devout follower now. I don't go to mass as often as I should (sometimes I am better than others), and have become a bit cynical due to some of the other things which are going on in my life at the moment.

I definately agree that life was not some "big cosmic mistake." The probablity of this is next to zero. I am a scientist and buy into evolution theory to some extent, however I can't believe that the first life form came about because the correct molecules just happened to be available and react by chance. Trying to make an organic compound of a significant complexity is usually not a trivial undertaking.

I have mixed feelings about the church. It is hard to see people going to mass every week and you know that they are going home and screwing their live in partner, for example. (The Catholic church teaches people not to have sex until they are married, and that sex is to be used for the creation of new life. Birth control is also not to be used if you strictly follow their teachings, and even a condom could be considered birth control since it prevents fertilization. That is why there used to be so many huge Catholic families.) It was hard to go to Catholic schools when I was growing up and be treated like I was worthless because my parents didn't have the money that some of the other families did. People can be hippocrites, to say the least. Sometimes it felt like people that I knew were only there to "put on a show" and "politic" since their colleagues and friends were there.

Again, argue away if you feel the need. Maybe you can help me get over some of my cynacism.

[jmcc]

I definately agree that life was not some "big cosmic mistake." The probablity of this is next to zero. I am a scientist and buy into evolution theory to some extent, however I can't believe that the first life form came about because the correct molecules just happened to be available and react by chance. Trying to make an organic compound of a significant complexity is usually not a trivial undertaking.

So, as a scientist, you feel that "magical man in the sky made the earth as we know it in 6 days" is more probable than "chemicals slammed into each other for millions and millions of years and combined into higher forms as time went by?"

[el bobo]

I go to church every weekend, but I tend to miss holy days of obligation. I would assume that I am very religious.

[ananag112]

I am very religious. My religion is Hinduism. I try to go to my temple around 2 times a month. I am Brahmin, so I do my sandhyavandanam (it’s a type of prayer thing) twice a day.

[rajchakrabarti]

I would consider myself spiritual more then religous. I feel religion is more of a cultrual thing nowadays.

I think believing in fate (if everything is predetermined) should have a factor in you faith.

I don't believe in fate.... and that in turns doesn't make me religous. Cuz when I think of it... the only reason I have a religion is where i grew up with, who my parents are..culture etc. If i was born somewhere else,,, my religion would be totally different.. so i look at it as a matter of chance. Just think most people are what their parents bring them up as. (not everybody... but many)

I just take the message of religion.. and all major faiths say the same thing... just be a good person... and i go with that.

[PhrostByte]

Born catholic but I dont believe any of the stuff related to jesus or any superpowers. It is funny how all these miracles about turning water into wine, parting the Red Sea, Talking burning bushes, healing of criples, resurrection, etc. happened in a time where there were no Camcorders or cameras to record such events. All religions were created to promote some kind of order (thru fear or guilt) and to help explain our origins and purpose in life. My son goes to Sunday school in order to keep my relatives happy.

I think it's sad that you don't support something you believe in. You realize that because of your efforts to create stability in your family instead of taking your son down the path you feel is right might cause him to be brainwashed? Of course everyone is different, and to each their own, but I would take a stand, and tell my family how I felt (that wouldn't be hard cuz my mother agrees with me) and I would raise my son the way I see fit.

I'm sorta religious. I feel that it an important part of my life and that its formed who I am and how I make my deiscions to some extent. I am Christian, but I definitly try to study other religions and traditions and try to form a more universal concept of a higher power. For me, I;m Catholic because I was born Catholic. I feel like my religion is my religion because it fits me. If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal. Atheism... thats a concept that I'm not sure I'll ever be fully comfortable with. It never seemed to me like it was possible that the complexities of reality were all just some big cosmic mistake. In many ways I feel like it takes more faith to believe it was a conicidence. As far as people who don't like organized religion, I understand that completely. Some churchs, temples, and religions out there are pretty shaq-fued up. Sorry bout that, I promise not all religious people are like that. Yeah, end rant I suppose. Just kinda typing thoughts as they come. Feel free to flame...

Yaknow, they say God works in mysterious ways... Basically that is the excuse for the sheer complexity of the universe. Although I agree with you, it's very difficult to assume the universe is a cause of chemical reaction. But aren't you giving yourself quite a burden? I mean, you're just one dude.. and you're trying to explain the universe? You have no right. The universe existed LONGGGG before humanity. So... logically, we can never know about the creation of the universe, we can guess (god, big bang) but all those guesses are pointless, it's just above us... or... I suppose "Before us" is a more proper term. The only way we can know how a universe is created is by simulating or possibly creating a new universe.

[daria19]

So, as a scientist, you feel that "magical man in the sky made the earth as we know it in 6 days" is more probable than "chemicals slammed into each other for millions and millions of years and combined into higher forms as time went by?"[/quote]

Stated like that, neither one sounds very likely. But somehow we are here.

[Medium_Pimpin]

Athiest.

[craven_fiend]

I am slightly religous, as in I believe, but don't practice any specific.

But to each his own. I respect most people's belief's. Not too big on Catholicism(sp?), but yeah once again, I keep my mouth shut so I am not shunned by my fiances entire family.

[camoor]

...If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal...

I think your intentions are good, but I would be careful when comparing religions.

Buddhism's essential message is that earthly life is impermanent and full of suffering. The cycle of birth, death, and rebirth can be ended through enlightenment, which is achieved through Buddhist faith and practice

The Catholic church, while recognizing the suffering on this earth (as told in the "Passion of the Christ" and many other stories of saints and martyrs) has the ultimate goal of salvation through faith lived out through good works. Enlightenment while alive on this Earth is not a major goal of the Catholic Church, instead they teach that by having faith in God and Christ, and performing good works (aka good karma) in this world, you will be granted salvation in the next world.

I'm sure that there are many other differences in the goals of these two religions, I just wanted to give one example.

[nikkai]

Straight up follower of Christ and His teachings.

Ya'll will learn some day. :D

*grin*

[The Shiznit]

I was raised Catholic but the last several months I have been attending a Christian church with the family every Sunday. I agree with a lot of the stuff they talk about but not everything. I just try to raise my family with good morals and values.

[help1]

to all you Athiests... were you born that? were your parents that?

Its nice to see that atleast some people here have some religion...

[Zoltek99]

I definately agree that life was not some "big cosmic mistake." The probablity of this is next to zero. I am a scientist and buy into evolution theory to some extent, however I can't believe that the first life form came about because the correct molecules just happened to be available and react by chance. Trying to make an organic compound of a significant complexity is usually not a trivial undertaking.

Scientists have performed rudimentary studies where they showed that in the conditions that prevailed during the early stages of life, it is in fact possible for organic precursors to form something more complex. In my mind, it's much more realistic that this happenend a few hundred more times, than it is that some all-powerful being created it all.

As for the individual who said it's pointless to guess about the big bang. While I'll admit that what is being done is guessing (seeing as how this happened billions of years ago...but then again, isn't all science just guessing), a great deal of research has, in fact, gone into scientifically exploring and providing evidence for the big bang.

Let me share a story with you about the levels to which the Catholic Church goes to protect the idea that everything was God's will. I went to a private Catholic High School were, naturally, every semester we needed to take a Theology class. So one day we got on the topic of evolution and how it can co-exist with the Bible's teachings. The teacher (a priest), was pressed about how humans (who were supposedly created by God) were evolved from more primitive primates... do you want to know what his response was, "That it was God's will that humans evolve from apes."

I'm all for the good morals and camraderie one can find as a member of the church, but religion and God have little, if any, place lying side by side with science. The writers of the Bible were human. The writers of the Koran were human. The writers of the Talbut were human. Religion is a man-made entity and humans were the ones who created the that idea of an all-powerful sentience(s) formed and governs the universe. I just don't buy it. If the teachings allow you to be a happier man or woman, then that's fantastic, but it was science that created this universe, and if you wish to call that science under the name of "God", remember, it's still just science.

[Zoltek99]

to all you Athiests... were you born that? were your parents that?

Its nice to see that atleast some people here have some religion...

My mother is devoutly Catholic. My father was Jewish for much of his life, but life has made him a bit of a cynic about these things.

I guess I became an athiest partly as a result of my dad's influence, but more so, just by taking science classes and reading books that left me unable to believe in what amounts to a glamorous imaginary friend.

[snotknocker]

I am very religious. I have actually had an out of body experience where I was clinically dead from a lethal drug overdose

[Spawn Of Hell]

As i write this, I'm am listening to A Perfect Circles: Judith, if that gives you some idea of how much I believe.






I swear to your god that this topic is pointless.

[ElwoodCuse]

Agnostic, because I'm not convinced one way or another that there is a god or there isn't one.

[JSweeney]

Why is it accepted for some athesist to complain that followers of organized religion are short-sighted, prejudical and tyranical, yet exhibit those exact same traits in thier own words and actions?

This is a definite minority, just like religious fundamentalists and radicals, yet, just like the aformentioned group, they seem to be the loudest as well.

[help1]

As i write this, I'm am listening to A Perfect Circles: Judith, if that gives you some idea of how much I believe.






I swear to your god that this topic is pointless.

Actually it has a point, but its sucks... I dunno how this topic got over 70 posts.... the point is that we are seeing how religious CAGS are...

[sblymnlcrymnl]

to all you Athiests... were you born that? were your parents that?

Its nice to see that atleast some people here have some religion...

I think I've always been an atheist, but I was 12 when I first said it out loud.

My mom's Catholic, my dad ... I don't really know. He's never talked about it so I'm not sure if he believes or not.

[pumbaa]

...If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal...

I think your intentions are good, but I would be careful when comparing religions.

Buddhism's essential message is that earthly life is impermanent and full of suffering. The cycle of birth, death, and rebirth can be ended through enlightenment, which is achieved through Buddhist faith and practice

The Catholic church, while recognizing the suffering on this earth (as told in the "Passion of the Christ" and many other stories of saints and martyrs) has the ultimate goal of salvation through faith lived out through good works. Enlightenment while alive on this Earth is not a major goal of the Catholic Church, instead they teach that by having faith in God and Christ, and performing good works (aka good karma) in this world, you will be granted salvation in the next world.

I'm sure that there are many other differences in the goals of these two religions, I just wanted to give one example.

I don't mean "the same goal" in that sense. It seems that almost all religions have 2 core goals. Achieving a finality with a higher being (thus achieving peace) and also being the "best person" you can be on earth. What a "good person" is may differ a bit from religion to religion... but its still a goal. Thats what I meant.

[bfg9k]

The Force is just a believable as any other religion if you ask me ;)

[PhrostByte]

to all you Athiests... were you born that? were your parents that?

Its nice to see that atleast some people here have some religion...

I was raised Jewish.. but eventually I thought about the things that my parents and rabbi told me.. Needless to say I rejected it.

As for the individual who said it's pointless to guess about the big bang. While I'll admit that what is being done is guessing (seeing as how this happened billions of years ago...but then again, isn't all science just guessing), a great deal of research has, in fact, gone into scientifically exploring and providing evidence for the big bang.

Look dude I agree with you. Science is in essence: observe, create theory, test theory. And obviously the beginning of time/universe whatever you wanna call it is more than worthy of exploration. But the difference is, scientific theories like theorities of physics (gravity, etc) can be tested. The theory of relativitiy can be applied to a situation and event. But how can theories of existance such as the big bang theory be tested? How can that theory become law? Maybe one day we can test it... but really I'm too short sighted to see that happening.

[PawnTakesKing]

The Force is just a believable as any other religion if you ask me ;)

Funny you should mention that. On the last national census, when asked what religion they were, 8% of the people who chose "Other" filled in the blank as "Jedi."

Whether they were joking or if they're some very obsessed Star Wars fans is unknown. :wink:

[camoor]

The Force is just a believable as any other religion if you ask me ;)

Funny you should mention that. On the last national census, when asked what religion they were, 8% of the people who chose "Other" filled in the blank as "Jedi."

Whether they were joking or if they're some very obsessed Star Wars fans is unknown. :wink:

The force is actually based on the Hermetic philosophy that all is mind (with alot of Jungian psychology thrown in for good measure).

So the underpinnings of it's philosophy was actually born a long time ago, I guess the galaxy part depends on who you believe. :wink:

[PenguinMaster]

Atheist.

[Tromack]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

[XboxMaster]

I'm a very logical and analytical person, so I'm on the brink of totally giving up on religion. Right now, I'm pretty unsure, and I do insult how funny the faith system is. I definitely have my doubts and have done some pretty stupid things against God on purpose. I probably just need someone to talk to about my doubts that would know a lot about religion. IDK, it's just such a confusing subject, my opinion changes a lot.

[vashnknives]

I would consider myself very religious, as I am a Christian, but there are people that make me look ignorant and almost non-religious. There is a big difference in being a Christian and being religious though, but maybe we shouldn't get into any discussions about that here.

[Grave_Addiction]

I'm a born-again Christian, but I know I've back slidden a bit.

Truth be told, I'm just very lazy and immature, and I know I will regret it if I don't get my life back on track soon.

I have seen what God has done in my life, and without him, I'd be a complete mess.

When I was younger, I'd question whether God existed or not, but I still read the Bible quite a bit. Once I got saved, which was when I was 15, I knew there was a God and that Jesus was the answer.

I know the life I should lead and how I should go about it, but there always seems to be something in my life keeping me from getting on the right track or staying on it like I should.

[camoor]

...If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal...

I think your intentions are good, but I would be careful when comparing religions.

Buddhism's essential message is that earthly life is impermanent and full of suffering. The cycle of birth, death, and rebirth can be ended through enlightenment, which is achieved through Buddhist faith and practice

The Catholic church, while recognizing the suffering on this earth (as told in the "Passion of the Christ" and many other stories of saints and martyrs) has the ultimate goal of salvation through faith lived out through good works. Enlightenment while alive on this Earth is not a major goal of the Catholic Church, instead they teach that by having faith in God and Christ, and performing good works (aka good karma) in this world, you will be granted salvation in the next world.

I'm sure that there are many other differences in the goals of these two religions, I just wanted to give one example.

I don't mean "the same goal" in that sense. It seems that almost all religions have 2 core goals. Achieving a finality with a higher being (thus achieving peace) and also being the "best person" you can be on earth. What a "good person" is may differ a bit from religion to religion... but its still a goal. Thats what I meant.

However Buddhism doesn't have the goal of "Achieving a finality with a higher being". It has the "goal" of Nirvana, which can be described as "the enlightened condition of utter detachment, in the sense that all desires - the source of suffering and delusion - have been extinguished. May be loosely equated, therefore, with an absolute state (or perhaps more accurately, a non-state) of emptiness" That's very different from the typical Christian depiction of heaven.

[pumbaa]

...If Bhuddism fits you, then by all means... I think we're trying to get to the same goal...

I think your intentions are good, but I would be careful when comparing religions.

Buddhism's essential message is that earthly life is impermanent and full of suffering. The cycle of birth, death, and rebirth can be ended through enlightenment, which is achieved through Buddhist faith and practice

The Catholic church, while recognizing the suffering on this earth (as told in the "Passion of the Christ" and many other stories of saints and martyrs) has the ultimate goal of salvation through faith lived out through good works. Enlightenment while alive on this Earth is not a major goal of the Catholic Church, instead they teach that by having faith in God and Christ, and performing good works (aka good karma) in this world, you will be granted salvation in the next world.

I'm sure that there are many other differences in the goals of these two religions, I just wanted to give one example.

I don't mean "the same goal" in that sense. It seems that almost all religions have 2 core goals. Achieving a finality with a higher being (thus achieving peace) and also being the "best person" you can be on earth. What a "good person" is may differ a bit from religion to religion... but its still a goal. Thats what I meant.

However Buddhism doesn't have the goal of "Achieving a finality with a higher being". It has the "goal" of Nirvana, which can be described as "the enlightened condition of utter detachment, in the sense that all desires - the source of suffering and delusion - have been extinguished. May be loosely equated, therefore, with an absolute state (or perhaps more accurately, a non-state) of emptiness" That's very different from the typical Christian depiction of heaven.

You got me with the finality with a higher being. Perhaps that should be reworded to "finality beyond human understanding". I suppose that would just mean infinity, but it seems like it fits better.

[pumbaa]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

[jmcc]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

[nikkai]

I'm a born-again Christian, but I know I've back slidden a bit.

Truth be told, I'm just very lazy and immature, and I know I will regret it if I don't get my life back on track soon.

I have seen what God has done in my life, and without him, I'd be a complete mess.

When I was younger, I'd question whether God existed or not, but I still read the Bible quite a bit. Once I got saved, which was when I was 15, I knew there was a God and that Jesus was the answer.

I know the life I should lead and how I should go about it, but there always seems to be something in my life keeping me from getting on the right track or staying on it like I should.

Rock on brother.

Hope this helps you out. (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Chanman_Inc)

[beerguy961]

I'm not religious at all.

However, I do see the practical side of religion and appreciate that it's there. I see the Bible as a compilation of stories that should help serve as a guide on how to act. However, I can't see myself taking these stories literally.

I don't feel that I need religion in my life, as I am happy and comfortable. If I need guidance, I'll look towards religion as my guide...

[Isles Guru]

I am anogstic. I don't have a problem with religious people. But I do have a problem with judgmental people - people who believe THEIR way is the only way to believe. I believe religious stories were created to scare people in to doing the right things and MOST people are brainwashed in some way (most likely by their family). Most people feel they need to know all of the answers to sleep comfortably. If that is what helps you through the night, then more power to you.

[bmulligan]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.

[bmulligan]

I am anogstic. I don't have a problem with religious people. But I do have a problem with judgmental people - people who believe THEIR way is the only way to believe. I believe religious stories were created to scare people in to doing the right things and MOST people are brainwashed in some way (most likely by their family). Most people feel they need to know all of the answers to sleep comfortably. If that is what helps you through the night, then more power to you.

Yes, religion is Santa Claus for older people.

[zionoverfire]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

:rofl:

I strongly disagree with you, but that's damn funny.

[Isles Guru]

I do believe there is some force so to speak (like in Star Wars) that binds the universe together but I am not in the majority that belives there is a man with a cape and magic wand controlling my destiny.

[JSweeney]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.

A call for reason from an unreasonable man. Nice.

[rockhero]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

[6669]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura
:lol:
There actually is some truth to that for some religions.

[jmcc]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.

Assuming she's still alive, your mother is wringing her hands in distress. Mission accomplished.

[PhrostByte]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.

Assuming she's still alive, your mother is wringing her hands in distress. Mission accomplished.

wtf?

[JSweeney]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

[rockhero]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

[CaseyRyback]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

let us not forget he was an actor as well. :lol:

[help1]

wow... now this topic is over 100 posts.... wasnt expecting that.

[jmcc]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

Why would being a SEAL (though, I thought he wasn't and just got grandfathered into the title) make him an authority on religion?

[JSweeney]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.

[rockhero]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

Why would being a SEAL (though, I thought he wasn't and just got grandfathered into the title) make him an authority on religion?

I was mainly talking about this: "or any matter of any real import"

[Sartori]

Don't practice. That's crazy talk.

[Zoltek99]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.

[JSweeney]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.

Kind of glossed over that section about "renoun atheists" eh?
Yes, there are exceptions, but if you want to learn about a subject, you go to experts. I mean really, why should I believe people who haven't studied thier beliefs more deeply in matters so important?

[tyecko]

Hmm I've been to church about 4 times in my life and each was a different church. No, not religious.

[Zoltek99]

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.

Kind of glossed over that section about "renoun atheists" eh?
Yes, there are exceptions, but if you want to learn about a subject, you go to experts. I mean really, why should I believe people who haven't studied thier beliefs more deeply in matters so important?

If you want to learn about the history of religion, then yes, experts are probably the best sources.

I didn't gloss over the part about renown atheists. I'm just saying that it's a fallacy to consider that there even exist people who know more about my relationship with God than anyone else does.

Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.

[camoor]

Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.

Dude, it really depends.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Jesse Ventura is actually a pretty clever guy, and it would be wrong to dismiss his comment just because one of his prior jobs was rasslin'

However I cannot agree that every person's opinion about spirituality has the same validity. Surely the Pope, Nietzsche, the Dali Lama, and any other incredibly intelligent person that has spent a great deal of their life attempting to answer the great question "Why?" will have more insight into the human spirit then the average man on the street.

[SneakyPenguin]

This has officially become a VS topic, and as such, will be moved to appropriate forum.

[Zoltek99]

Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.

Dude, it really depends.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Jesse Ventura is actually a pretty clever guy, and it would be wrong to dismiss his comment just because one of his prior jobs was rasslin'

However I cannot agree that every person's opinion about spirituality has the same validity. Surely the Pope, Nietzsche, the Dali Lama, and any other incredibly intelligent person that has spent a great deal of their life attempting to answer the great question "Why?" will have more insight into the human spirit then the average man on the street.

Good point. I think I'm not being clear about this, partly as a result of my not exactly being sure what I want to say....but I'll give it another go.

IMO, organized religion is a hoax and I'm not talking about that here.

Personal religion, that is, one's relationship with God (whatever form that relationship may take) is not a hoax, but it is personal, i.e. entirely subjective. People like the Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or theologicians may be more articulate about their thoughts about spirituality, but their thoughts may very well be no more valid than the thoughts of the homeless man on the corner of the street.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody has been granted a divine right to prescribe to you what you think/believe/feel about your own personal relationship with God, regardless of their background and expertise. You may choose to listen to what others have to say, and that's a good thing, but if you want to listen to Jesse Ventura over the Pope, then so be it.

Hmm, I think I'm getting more off-target so I'll just leave it at that for now.

[Isles Guru]

It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!

[PhrostByte]

It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!

Amen :P

[camoor]

It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!

Amen :P

There are plenty of completely secular philosophies/governements with adherents that have killed and murdered without just cause (Communism for example). I find this blanket statment about religion rather shallow.

[Inmate #10943]

It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?
Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but -
Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.

[jmcc]

It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?
Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but -
Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

[Inmate #10943]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

[jmcc]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

Brain cancer?

[KingNES]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

Brain cancer?

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)

[Zoltek99]

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

That's about as ridiculous as asking what have religious people contributed to this world. To imply that only religious people are good giving people is a bit short-sighted. Whether you believe in God or not has nothing to do with what type of person you are.

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Again. Look above...

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

Some do. Some don't. Some believers do. Some believers don't.

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

The 1st world countries on this planet are civil nations, and go out of their way to attempt to separate church from state. The United States, which I'm guessing you are referring to, has this very concept in its constitution.

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

The Big Bang.

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?

The heart stops beating. The neurons stop firing. Metabolism soon stops. The body begins to decay. And that's it....

The same thing happens to a believer as well.

Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

Yep. Everybody and everything does. It's the way of the universe...decay and entropy.

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

The only contribution of religious people I've seen to date is their constant molestation of little children.

I just made a pretty awful blanket statement. It's not true...but neither is saying that athiests' only contribution is to assault believers.

Nobody is assaulting believers of God. At least I'm not. I just don't see how the ideas of an afterlife and an all-powerful God have a place in the universe we live in.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but - Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I will do everything in my power to make that miracle possible, even if I have to pray.

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.

That is fantastic to hear and I'm not trying to be sarcastic when I say I'm glad that you experienced such an amazing miracle.

It just still doesn't proove to me that God played a role. Humans still know very little about science and medicine and how the body works.

[jmcc]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

Brain cancer?

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)

Well, it could explain some things, is all.

[Inmate #10943]

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

That's about as ridiculous as asking what have religious people contributed to this world. To imply that only religious people are good giving people is a bit short-sighted. Whether you believe in God or not has nothing to do with what type of person you are.

I'm not talking of individuals.
Again, what have atheists as a non-religion contributed to the world?

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Again. Look above...

I did! It's a simple question, just list a few of the orphanages or charities atheist have established.

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

Some do. Some don't. Some believers do. Some believers don't.

The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

The 1st world countries on this planet are civil nations, and go out of their way to attempt to separate church from state. The United States, which I'm guessing you are referring to, has this very concept in its constitution.[

You're again avoiding the question. Here are some great atheist countries: U.S.S.R., China, and North Korea. Fine examples of atheist nations.

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

The Big Bang.

Did the Big Bang happen all by itself out of nothingness?

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?

The heart stops beating. The neurons stop firing. Metabolism soon stops. The body begins to decay. And that's it....

The same thing happens to a believer as well.

Wrong! For me there's an afterlife where hopefully I can be with the people I loved here on earth.

Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

Yep. Everybody and everything does. It's the way of the universe...decay and entropy.

True! Our bodies all rot away. But I believe we have a soul and an afterlife.

(skip the next two)

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.

That is fantastic to hear and I'm not trying to be sarcastic when I say I'm glad that you experienced such an amazing miracle.

It just still doesn't proove to me that God played a role. Humans still know very little about science and medicine and how the body works.

Well I really don't want to get into the details but God did play a role.
I saw 3 of the best medical specialist in the field and had a well-known cancer center involved and their conclusion was they had never ever heard of this and could not offer any explantion.

[Quackzilla]

A person religion determines what they can and cannot do?

I hope to become a theoretical physicist and an eletrical engineer.
Will my status as an atheist create a glass wall that prevents me from accomplishing anything?

Will god smite me if I am about to create or discover something important?

Please tell me, because I need to know whether I should change my career path to something that god approves of for an atheist.

[Inmate #10943]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

Brain cancer?

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)

Well, it could explain some things, is all.

I didn't even think that warranted a reply because it was so absurd.
Even if it was "brain" cancer you'd have some zippy reply.
The best way to settle this is for you to got to medical school and then do your residency in oncology.
Then I'll turn all of my medical records and findings by some reputable doctors over to you
and you can then come up with some reasonable scientific explanation. Thus disproving my God/miracle thing.

[jmcc]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!

Brain cancer?

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)

Well, it could explain some things, is all.

I didn't even think that warranted a reply because it was so absurd.
Even if it was "brain" cancer you'd have some zippy reply.
The best way to settle this is for you to got to medical school and then do your residency in oncology.
Then I'll turn all of my medical records and findings by some reputable doctors over to you
and you can then come up with some reasonable scientific explanation. Thus disproving my God/miracle thing.

THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.

[bmulligan]

Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.

Assuming she's still alive, your mother is wringing her hands in distress. Mission accomplished.

Sorry, my mother is an atheist. Although she used to call me jesus christ a lot as a child. Actually I think it was "jesus fucking christ", as I remember.

[bmulligan]

The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

I can name the biggest one of all:

Uncle Sam.

[jmcc]

The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

I can name the biggest one of all:

Uncle Sam.

Sweet sassy molassy!

[camoor]

Inmate, I think you should really broaden your horizons. There are alot of people who don't believe in one "God" that do a great deal of good in the world.

I googled Athiesm and came up with this site. It gives a great explaination of the ways and reasons many Atheists contribute to charity:

"You mentioned Christians who campaign for increased foreign aid. What about atheists? Why aren't there any atheist charities or hospitals? Don't atheists object to the religious charities?"

There are many charities without religious purpose that atheists can contribute to. Some atheists contribute to religious charities as well, for the sake of the practical good they do. Some atheists even do voluntary work for charities founded on a theistic basis.

Most atheists seem to feel that atheism isn't worth shouting about in connection with charity. To them, atheism is just a simple, obvious everyday matter, and so is charity. Many feel that it's somewhat cheap, not to say self-righteous, to use simple charity as an excuse to plug a particular set of religious beliefs.

To "weak" atheists, building a hospital to say "I do not believe in God" is a rather strange idea; it's rather like holding a party to say "Today is not my birthday". Why the fuss? Atheism is rarely evangelistic.

Atheist FAQ (http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html)

[bmulligan]

I'll file this moment away as the first time we're in agreement, camoor. :D

[Zoltek99]

Inmate, camoor made a great point. I think you are confusing beliief in God as indicative of one's "goodness".

You say it isn't about individuals....but is is, don't you see? It's the individuals who are good or bad people, not by virtue of whether they believe if a God exists, but whether they believe in being "kind to their neighbor". By talking about groups, as a whole, all that does is stereotype and leads to untrue blanket statements.

Believe me, as an individual taking the stance you are, you do not want to be judging believers or athiests as groups. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the Crusades. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the strife rampant throughout the Middle East. Athiests, as a non-religion, are not responsible for the brutality involved with the fight for Israel.

The Red Cross. The Salvation Army. Goodwill. Make a Wish Foundation. The U.S government with welfare, and social security, and food stamps. The thousands upon thousands of research centers devoted to curing Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or AIDS, or cancer. The thousands upon thousands of local food shelters (dozens of which in my hometown of San Francisco have nothing to do with the church). Believers and athiests alike contribute to and fund these operations.

The U.S.S.R, in practice, was actually not an athiest nation, neither was China. It was the communist platform to remove any official tokens of religion, but the people, especially in Russia were devoutly religious. Speaking of which, the US is an athiest nation. Are they not the paradigm for a great nation, a world leader?

If I knew how the Big Bang arose, I would be in Stockholm accepting my Nobel Prize. Suffice it to say, one of the popular theories floating around is that our universe, our Big Bang, simply arose from another universe. Still a much better proposition than an imaginary friend creating it.

Last thing...again...we don't know much more than we know about how the human body works. Your recovery from cancer was miraculous, but possibly entirely explainable by scientific processes.

[KingNES]

Just a quick question. Do any of you who do not believe in God believe in any of the following? UFO's, ETs, Nessy,Big Foot,Demons,Ghosts,Spirits (etc, U get my drift.) I am just curious is all. Thanx in Advance.

[pumbaa]

Atheists:

Why are you an atheist? I'm just very curious. I definitely flirted with atheism, and I would count it amoung the worst times of my life. I'm not saying anything about the lifestyle, but whenI was struggling with whether or not their was a God... I felt sick to my stomach everyday... just because the gravity of the deiscion was pounding on me like a hammer. Have you have a similar experience with atheism? Have you tried to grasp a religions reasonings? I would consider myself a very logical and reasonable person. I'm definitely not a mindless drone following "big brother" Jesus. I've put some serious thought and logic into my religions deiscions, and continue to grow as a spritual person (and I've never even molested a child!). But from your statements, I don't see much logic beyond "Its obviously the logical thing, and religion and the bible is bullshit".Please don't just reason with "reason and logic" BS. Give me something specific. I'm not challenging you, I am truly just trying to understand another man's reasoning and thought processes, perhaps expanding mine.

BTW: America is by no means an atheist nation. It's tradition is obviously deeply rooted in White Protestantism. While Church and State are seperate, the morals and "values" that our most basic laws were built on were made in a Christian environment. I'm not saying this is good or bad... I'm just making the point that if your looking for a country based in secularism... America isn't it.

[Zoltek99]

I cannot speak for others, but I'll do my best at getting my thoughts across.

Scientific discovery after scientific discovery has shown that the universe is, by nature, an objective construct. It's governed by logical rules through and through. Everything that happens, microscopically or macroscopically, happens because the rules of biology, physics, and chemistry prescribe that they happen. Even the idea of consciousness, and even free will, are beginning to be revealed as governed by objective rules.

In this massive conglomeration of objectivity, I see no place for the existence of an all-powerful being that watches over us, cares for us, lends us passage to the afterlife, etc...

I just feel the concept of God is nothing more than an archaic remnant of early civilization's attempts to explain the unknown. For whatever reason, perhaps because it provides a sense of solace for people encountering hard times, God has lived through the ages.

Civilization created God, not the other way around.

As we learn more and more about the Big Bang and the existence of possible multi-verses, the likelihood that some sentient being created our universe seems ever less likely.

I guess the difference between me and a believer is faith, faith that despite no supporting evidence, God does, in fact, exist and watches over us all. You know what? Maybe the believers are right. I think they are naive but maybe they're right. I'm just not the type of person to allow my faith, or lack thereof, to shape my view on life, existence, the universe, etc...

People say you need faith. You just have to believe he's there. You can't proove he doesn't exist so if you believe, you might be right. The problem I have with that is that you can say that about just about anything that doesn't exist. For example, let's say I believe there is an eight-legged monkey that lives in the Congo. Even if it doesn't exist, I can still maintain that I've seen no evidence contrary so it must exist.

I'm a man who deals in numbers, in formulas, in facts....in objective truths which I can perceive and understand. There is no place for a sentient creator of the universe in my world of objectivity.

With that said, I don't think religion is wrong. I think organized religion is wrong. It only purports the idea that there is one way to "enlightenment" as opposed to the "wrong" way offerred by other religions. Still, the teachings of the major religions of the world all have fantastic messages...and it just so happens those messages all boil down to one concept...Love. That is as marvelous as message as any and I am all for the religious teachings (be it from the Bible, or the Koran, or the Talmud) that try and spread the message.

It's just when that when the message becomes entangled with "devotion to Jesus" or "devotion to Mohammed" or "the TRUE path to salvation", then I take offense.

Quick note: America may have been founded in a Protestant environment, but the morals and values taught by Protestantism were around much earlier than Protestantism, itself. The morals and values themselves are very secular, despite the religious upbringings of the Founders. The fact that churches, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship flourish side by side in America provides pretty good evidence for the success of separation of church and state. I guess that doesn't make America an atheist nation, per say, but it does make it secular, in that rather than affiliate itself with one religion, it affiliates itself with no religion and, in turn, becomes a civil nation.

[pumbaa]

Thank you Zoltek, you boiled it down to exactly what it is. Faith. I respect your opinion, and I respect your arguement. I wish more atheists were like you. And although I obviously disagree with you about God... your views on love are spot on, thats what its all about... (IMHO) As long as the person on the other line is governed by this single idea... I can see no wrong. Awesome.

[Quackzilla]

Just a quick question. Do any of you who do not believe in God believe in any of the following? UFO's, ETs, Nessy,Big Foot,Demons,Ghosts,Spirits (etc, U get my drift.) I am just curious is all. Thanx in Advance.

With the infinite universe it is theoretically impossible for the not to be an infinite number of intelligent species.

It is logical to assume that the universe is innfinite because those would be some huge ass walls.

[bmulligan]

Atheists:

Why are you an atheist? I'm just very curious. ...I felt sick to my stomach everyday... just because the gravity of the deiscion was pounding on me like a hammer. Have you have a similar experience with atheism?

No, I have never had a bad experience because of my lack of faith in god

Have you tried to grasp a religions reasonings?

yes, I've tried, but the logic always seems to end on a particular faith, which I do not share. More accurately, that 'faith' is usually in a book written by men who have no greater claim to speak with an almighty than I. Who can argue with a person who believes in a word simply because it was written down buy someone who claims to know god ?

I would consider myself a very logical and reasonable person. I'm definitely not a mindless drone following "big brother" Jesus.
Except that logic is usually thrown out the window when dealing with concepts such as Jesus, god, and THE word.

But from your statements, I don't see much logic beyond "Its obviously the logical thing, and religion and the bible is bullshit".

Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to fuck with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.

[jmcc]

Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to shaq-fu with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.

Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"
Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"
Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."

[Inmate #10943]

Will my status as an atheist create a glass wall that prevents me from accomplishing anything?

No even atheist can be all they want to be.

When you go for a job interview here are some helpful tips:
- have good manners
- avoid the "I'm smarter than anybody else" attitude
- don't be rude and attain some humility
- do not use offensive language

Now practice practice practice.
Who knows someday you may win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Good Luck!

[Inmate #10943]

Atheist are so typical you can predict what they're going to say.

THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.

Yes your exalted majesty, I will immediately submit to all Godless people proof of a miracle. Who cares what you believe!

[jmcc]

Atheist are so typical you can predict what they're going to say.

THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.

Yes your exalted majesty, I will immediately submit to all Godless people proof of a miracle. Who cares what you believe!

So you got nothing, huh? I guess I'm not surprised, really.

[pumbaa]

Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to shaq-fu with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.

Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"
Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"
Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."

That my friend. Is hilarious.

bmulligan: Obviously to you... someone who doesn't know me, logic is "thrown out the window" when it comes to religion. I just don't see it that way. There's some very logical arguements FOR a God. Someone once said that religion was just started by early people because they didn't understand what was going on with the world, and its survived for some stupid reason. This is one of my logical reasons for BELIEVEING in a God. I mean shit, this stuff has survived through years and years, in various iternerations. The whole of humanity has always believed in something larger than itself. So many people have believed it in one form or another. It's lasted so long... Name one other belief that humans have had throughout history. You look up into the night sky, and see beautiful randomness. I look up into the night sky and see the same, but know that there is a rhyme reason for this randomness.

[Inmate #10943]

So you got nothing, huh? I guess I'm not surprised, really.

Another brilliant, well-conceived, witty, highly-intelligent, thought-provoking post
from the author who gave us "Brain Cancer". It's always a pleasure reading posts from
the Grand Spam Master as he inches closer to that coveted "2600 Post" landmark with
his meaningful and enlightening posts.

[Isles Guru]

So how many people on this site believe that if you don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior before you die yada yada you will spend an eternity in hell REGARDLESS of how good a person you may be.

[MrBadExample]

Which atheist:
started the Crusades?
ran the Inquisition?
burned witches at the stake?
are warring in the Middle East?
covered up child molestation by Priests?
promoted slavery?

[Inmate #10943]

You say it isn't about individuals....but is is, don't you see? It's the individuals who are good or bad people, not by virtue of whether they believe if a God exists, but whether they believe in being "kind to their neighbor". By talking about groups, as a whole, all that does is stereotype and leads to untrue blanket statements.

It's not about individuals, it's about mankind.
You atheists love to talk about individualism when it applies to you but when it involes Christians it's a different story.
When a few bad Christians do something wrong you don't attack the individual you attack the religion.

Believe me, as an individual taking the stance you are, you do not want to be judging believers or athiests as groups. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the Crusades. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the strife rampant throughout the Middle East. Athiests, as a non-religion, are not responsible for the brutality involved with the fight for Israel.

No but you fail to mention atheist governments like the Soviet Union that murdered over 18 million of its citizens.
When it comes to abusing people and taking away freedoms nobody can match the atheists.

The U.