Let's talk about how the Xbox 2 will fail.

[Drico]

Let's talk about the release.

So most people think the Xbox 2 will be released in fall or winter of this year. Here's the thing, it seems like just yesterday that the Xbox was released. It's been out for 3 years, but let's face it, it sucked for the first 2, and people have recently just 'gotten into it' ... Supposedly Nintendo and Sony won't launch theirs until fall or winter of 2006.

Let's talk about the possible launch games.

It's a well known fact that Halo was the only thing that saved the Xbox from being a failure. Halo 3 will clearly not be a launch title, and really what else is there? Project Gotham? Crimson Skies? Some average XSN games? Please. They've packed in Crimson Skies with Live and stopped developing most of the XSN games for a reason. Most third parties are delivering their big sequels to the current gen consoles, and will not have a big release at the launch of the Xbox 2.

Let's talk about this 3-types-of-console business.

Haha. What a joke. The average consumer is not interested in this. When it comes time to choose, people are going to be boggled over which one to choose (especially parents), and 9 out of 10 would go for the Revolution or PS3, guaranteed. Do we really need an Xbox that plays PC games? An Xbox without a HD? Looks like Microsoft is going cheap on us. This is the kind of gimmick that would have been tryed in the 90's, not now.

Let's talk about money.

After shelling out money on Xbox, games, Live, etc, do you think most people are going to want to pay their nuts for some kind of super equipped PC Xbox, 3 years and some months later? I know I can't afford it this year, and judging from the current rumors/details I won't want one for a long time, if at all. The minimum time between consoles is 5 years, unless of course, you're aiming for a flop. People are still spending money on their current consoles, now more than ever perhaps. There is still profit in the Xbox. Why does Microsoft feel the need to push some new consoles up our ass so soon? So they can charge us another few hundred to play Halo 3 (despite it not being ready for at least another 2-3 years) ...

Let's do some addition.

Early release

+

Guaranteed So-So launch titles.

+

Some 3 console bullshit gimmick that not even the Infinium would dare try.

+

Robbing us blind.

=

Failure.




I'm no fanboy. I own a Xbox,GameCube, and just recently traded my PS2... When the time comes, I'll probably go with the PS3. Xbox 2 is shaping up to be bullocks, Revolution is destined to fail (Nintendo is going the way of Sega), so Sony is my only real option, although I didn't care much for the PS1 and right now the PS2 is the worst of the current 3 consoles, IMO. Even the PS3, I won't grab until probably the first pricedrop, or whenever it gets a good selection of games.

[Trakan]

If they release one version for a $300-esque price, I'd buy. Also, Halo 2.5.

[Matsumoto11756]

I have enough Xbox, Gamecube and PC games unplayed to last me until Xbox 3 comes out so I'll pass on this particular discussion..............

[jimbodan]

It's too early to tell if it will fail or not. I want to actually see the games first before I make a judgement

[Drico]

If they release one version for a $300-esque price, I'd buy. Also, Halo 2.5.

At this point, Halo 2.5 is speculation from online forums, basically.

Besides, Halo 2 was Halo 1.5 .. So just maybe a Halo 2.5 would actually qualify as Halo 2. The game would sell, sure, but all it would be is a "directors cut", so I wouldn't even classify it as a blockbuster title such as a Halo or GTA sequel.

(9 out of 10 chance that Halo 2.5 won't actually ever happen, except in the form of Halo 3)

[worx]

If they release one version for a $300-esque price, I'd buy. Also, Halo 2.5.
Right - if those rumors hold true then it might be worth it, IMO. But I do understand your point, OP - M$ is always about trying to squeeze change from a rock so it wouldn't surprize me at all if they pulled this after finally establishing a loyal customer base for the Xbox.

[Kaijufan]

Well, a long rumored Xbox 2 launch title is Perfect Dark 0, which is a good game to launch a system with. And if true, having Halo 2.5 on the HDD wouldn't hurt.
I agree that having 3 choices would be horrible. We all know how the PSX (I think thats what it was called) did in Japan. I say just release the hard drive non computer version of the Xbox 2. I know I love not having to spend money on memory cards, and I like having content downloads, so keeping the hard drive is a must.

[CaseyRyback]

not to mention they established a fanbase mainly due to their system being superior technologically. When they lose that, they lose a lot of their strength in the market.

[Drico]

Right, that's what I'm saying. Xbox has recently just gained its loyal fans and customers, and I really don't think the average customer is expecting an Xbox 2 anytime soon. It's like getting buttfucked by a 300 lb prostitute with a dildo while you're fixing your kitchen sink. Didn't see that one coming, did ya?

Edit:

Also, as Casey pointed out, the Xbox's power is the 2nd reason for it success (Halo being 1), and it'll be the weakest of the 3 this time. I almost think that Microsoft is trying to create a failure.

[CapAmerica]

Perfect Dark 0 will be as much of a launch title for the Xbox2 as Star Fox Adventures was for the GameCube =P

[Trakan]

Also, as Casey pointed out, the Xbox's power is the 2nd reason for it success (Halo being 1), and it'll be the weakest of the 3 this time. I almost think that Microsoft is trying to create a failure.

It's going to be the weakest? I thought they were all going to be damn near the same graphics wise.

[juicedup1]

Xbox sucess is also its online play!

[LarryCheapO]

xbox2 and gamecube 2 will be 1 and 2 next gen.Why with games costing more and more money to make.Third party dev will start to put there games and everysytem like EA. SO it will come down to First party games something that sony doesnt do as microsoft or nintendo. GT4, Jaks3,R&C3.are not better than Halo, PDark,Conker,or anything nintendo.

[Drico]

Live is clearly the best online option for the current three. Next gens console will all be more advanced with the voice chat and what-not, so Microsoft won't gain an advantage with that. I don't really think it was a deciding factor in the Xbox's success anyways. More or less, it's for the already established fanbase.

[Drico]

xbox2 and gamecube 2 will be 1 and 2 next gen.Why with games costing more and more money to make.Third party dev will start to put there games and everysytem like EA. SO it will come down to First party games something that sony doesnt do as microsoft or nintendo. GT4, Jaks3,R&C3.are not better than Halo, PDark,Conker,or anything nintendo.

Why are people still talking about Rare? The upcoming Conker game for Xbox will most likely suffer from average sales, and Perfect Dark has been rumored for years, for literally every console.

[Medium_Pimpin]

Also, as Casey pointed out, the Xbox's power is the 2nd reason for it success (Halo being 1), and it'll be the weakest of the 3 this time. I almost think that Microsoft is trying to create a failure.

It's going to be the weakest? I thought they were all going to be damn near the same graphics wise.

Well if the xbox 2 is released a year ahead of ps3 and GCNext those companies can just add better specs. The size of microchips decreases by %50 every 6 months approximately. This can give the person who releases last with the best specs on paper and even a better manufacturing price, depending on the technology used.

[The Successful Dropout]

you seem to be forgetting the potential in these launch-title sequels

whacked! 2: rewhacked!
stake 2: fortune fighters unleashed
drake 2: drake of the 99 problems and a dragon aint one
and maybe if they could push out another new legends, quantum redshift and circus maximus, they'd be set

seriously, if they could somehow add to the shenmue series a little bit, possibly bringing part one over to the xbox 2 as well....then what is that new "secretive" project from Peter Molyneux (creator of fable), is that an xbox title? i dunno, i read something about it a while ago....perhaps ninja gaiden 2?

[MrFriday18]

xbox 2 all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davidmt]

Nice post, I agree with your points. I think Microsoft is screwing themselves with three variations of a new console. Talk about confusion -- especially from parents and people who know nothing about technology. Consoles need to be easy to set up. How many people have never played online because they have no idea how to get it going. There are a lot of people out there that have no clue. I really think consoles need to keep that "plug-and-play" simplicity that has separated them from the PC-crowd. Casual gamers will avoid the Xbox if they get confused with which one to buy.

On the positive side, by the end of 2005, gamers might be looking for the next thing. All we will see this year are new handhelds - the PSP will be out soon and the DS will hopefully start to take off.

If Microsoft has a killer system, has Halo-3 ready for launch, and makes it backwards compatible with the existing Xbox, then it will probably do well.

[RandyTsai]

You have got to be kidding me. The Xbox is the best system of the three. The only reason that the PS2 and Gamecube did well at launch was that they had name recognition. They were both well established in the market, while xbox had to depend on early adopters for their sales revenue. And it not untill recently that the masses has caught on. Everyone is realizing that the xbox has the best engine and the most potential and they have build a strong library of games. So now lets talk about XBOX 2. It will have already established itself in the market and has a decent amount of fanfare. Link that with their platformers and a strong marketing campeign and I say xbox will exceed both playstation and nintendo in the console war.

[Medium_Pimpin]

They don't need Halo 3 ready for launch, they need it ready by the time PS3 is launched.

[RandyTsai]

Nice post, I agree with your points. I think Microsoft is screwing themselves with three variations of a new console. Talk about confusion -- especially from parents and people who know nothing about technology. Consoles need to be easy to set up. How many people have never played online because they have no idea how to get it going. There are a lot of people out there that have no clue. I really think consoles need to keep that "plug-and-play" simplicity that has separated them from the PC-crowd. Casual gamers will avoid the Xbox if they get confused with which one to buy.

On the positive side, by the end of 05, gamers might be looking for the next thing. All we will see this year are new handhelds - the PSP will be out soon and the DS will hopefully start to take off.

If Microsoft has a killer system, has Halo-3 ready for launch, and makes it backwards compatible with existing games, then it will probably do well.


I guarantee that their marketing campaign will resolve that issue.

[Drico]

You have got to be kidding me. The Xbox is the best system of the three. The only reason that the PS2 and Gamecube did well at launch was that they had name recognition. They were both well established in the market, while xbox had to depend on early adopters for their sales revenue. And it not untill recently that the masses has caught on. Everyone is realizing that the xbox has the best engine and the most potential and they have build a strong library of games. So now lets talk about XBOX 2. It will have already established itself in the market and has a decent amount of fanfare. Link that with their platformers and a strong marketing campeign and I say xbox will exceed both playstation and nintendo in the console war.

Go away. This isn't about Xbox.

Xbox and GC are my favorites this gen, but that's irrelevant. I'm saying Microsoft is fucking over the average consumer by releasing 3 different kinds of the console, and a year early at that.

And also, since when were Team Ninjas games blockbuster titles? Ninja Gaiden got great reviews, but if you look at the sales, they weren't that stellar.

[Hunter55]

IMO, xbox 2 will be a success.

Gamecube royally screwed their fanboys over when they decided not to launch online capabilities, but they still sold. They had the least amount of good first party games available, but people who liked those games still bought the system (Windwaker, Monkey Ball ,StarFox, etc) They ended up lowering their price to become the system most parents on a budget would buy for their children.

Now look at the xbox 2:

They will have xbox fanboys buying their system, most of them not even knowing what the launch titles will be.

PGR3 will probably be a big hit, and since microsoft supposidlyu has unlimited pockets, they will make sure they have first party titles available, even if that means buying licensing other companies. If I remember right, Halo was originally destined for the Mac, but microsoft bought it over for the xbox because they needed a launch title.

Microsoft, in order to sell the system, will lower their console price if they have to. After all, they lost alot of money on the xbox but didn't really care.

Plus, there are those people who can't wait for the nextr-gen system to come out, those who always have to have the best. The main reason why PS2 did so good, aside from the legacy of ps1, was that it was released a year earlier, and people rushed out to buy it.

[Drico]

Plus, there are those people who can't wait for the nextr-gen system to come out, those who always have to have the best. The main reason why PS2 did so good, aside from the legacy of ps1, was that it was released a year earlier, and people rushed out to buy it.


Err.. no.. It was because of the success of the PS1. If your theory were true, then the Dreamcast would have been the biggest thing since.. well.. games...

[PKRipp3r]

Let's talk about the release.

So most people think the Xbox 2 will be released in fall or winter of this year. Here's the thing, it seems like just yesterday that the Xbox was released. It's been out for 3 years, but let's face it, it sucked for the first 2, and people have recently just 'gotten into it' ... Supposedly Nintendo and Sony won't launch theirs until fall or winter of 2006.

Let's talk about the possible launch games.

It's a well known fact that Halo was the only thing that saved the Xbox from being a failure. Halo 3 will clearly not be a launch title, and really what else is there? Project Gotham? Crimson Skies? Some average XSN games? Please. They've packed in Crimson Skies with Live and stopped developing most of the XSN games for a reason. Most third parties are delivering their big sequels to the current gen consoles, and will not have a big release at the launch of the Xbox 2.

Let's talk about this 3-types-of-console business.

Haha. What a joke. The average consumer is not interested in this. When it comes time to choose, people are going to be boggled over which one to choose (especially parents), and 9 out of 10 would go for the Revolution or PS3, guaranteed. Do we really need an Xbox that plays PC games? An Xbox without a HD? Looks like Microsoft is going cheap on us. This is the kind of gimmick that would have been tryed in the 90's, not now.

Let's talk about money.

After shelling out money on Xbox, games, Live, etc, do you think most people are going to want to pay their nuts for some kind of super equipped PC Xbox, 3 years and some months later? I know I can't afford it this year, and judging from the current rumors/details I won't want one for a long time, if at all. The minimum time between consoles is 5 years, unless of course, you're aiming for a flop. People are still spending money on their current consoles, now more than ever perhaps. There is still profit in the Xbox. Why does Microsoft feel the need to push some new consoles up our ass so soon? So they can charge us another few hundred to play Halo 3 (despite it not being ready for at least another 2-3 years) ...

Let's do some addition.

Early release

+

Guaranteed So-So launch titles.

+

Some 3 console bullshit gimmick that not even the Infinium would dare try.

+

Robbing us blind.

=

Failure.




I'm no fanboy. I own a Xbox,GameCube, and just recently traded my PS2... When the time comes, I'll probably go with the PS3. Xbox 2 is shaping up to be bullocks, Revolution is destined to fail (Nintendo is going the way of Sega), so Sony is my only real option, although I didn't care much for the PS1 and right now the PS2 is the worst of the current 3 consoles, IMO. Even the PS3, I won't grab until probably the first pricedrop, or whenever it gets a good selection of games.

:lol:

by far one of the most ill-informed and ridiculous things i've ever read on teh world wide intraweb.

what a **bleep**ing maroon.



take your meds and have a mug of warm cocoa, chachi.
:lol:

[davidmt]

xbox2 and gamecube 2 will be 1 and 2 next gen.Why with games costing more and more money to make.Third party dev will start to put there games and everysytem like EA. SO it will come down to First party games something that sony doesnt do as microsoft or nintendo. GT4, Jaks3,R&C3.are not better than Halo, PDark,Conker,or anything nintendo.

Why are people still talking about Rare? The upcoming Conker game for Xbox will most likely suffer from average sales, and Perfect Dark has been rumored for years, for literally every console.

Rare has been a joke. What have they done so far? Grabbed by the Ghoulies? They need to put out some games, and stick to some kind of release schedule.

[CapAmerica]

Wasn't there an old saying that the first console out for the generation will die?

What sold the Xbox was the fact that;
1. It was the most powerfullest of all the Consoles
2. Online Gameing
3. Halo
4. Microsoft's Billions of $$

Xbox2 could easly be on the bottom when it comes to power next gen, they are entering the market a year early which will alow Nintendo and Sony to beef up their stats and blow the Xbox2 out of the water. Just look at the differneces between the PS2 and the Xbox.

Online gameing won't be a big deal next gen because all 3 consoles will be fully suporting online gaming, infact if Nintendo is smart this time they could really take over the online market with making a few of their Major titles online. (Pokemon Online anyone?)

Halo was a HUGE selling feature for the Xbox, But will they be able to do it again? Who knows. It very unlikely that Halo 3 will be ready for launch. We may see Halo3 a year after the Xbox 2 launch. Halo 2 DC if real will help bost sales, But I don't think it would be enough to get all the old Xbox users to go out and buy a Xbox2. They are going to nees something more then a updated game. And as I said before I think its extreamly unlikely we will see any launch titles from Rare for the Xbox2 unless its Kameo, which at the rate things are going could happen. We will not see Perfect Dark 0 for the Xbox2 the first year its out. If we're really lucky we might see it before Halo3. But we all know how great Rare is at keeping deadlines.

Microsoft still has the money to push another console. But Bill Gates has said that if the Xbox2 doesn't turn a profit don't bet on seeing a Xbox3. Bill Gates might have a shit load of money but he's not stupid. If a product failes you can it. (Windows ME)

If the Xbox was developed by any other company it would have been canned as fast as the DreamCast was. It was the fact that Microsoft had the money to take a huge loss that kept them pushing the Xbox.

[JSweeney]

Gamecube royally screwed their fanboys over when they decided not to launch online capabilities, but they still sold. They had the least amount of good first party games available, but people who liked those games still bought the system (Windwaker, Monkey Ball ,StarFox, etc)

The fact that you don't know that Super Monkey Ball is a SEGA game and not a Nintendo game almost completely destroys your credibility right here.

[RandyTsai]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

[Drico]

Even if Rare were to have something ready for the launch, I really don't think it'd make a difference. Kameo will be nothing but a bust anyways. Perfect Dark at least has a chance. Still, Rare is a dead company. Maybe a few people online still care about them, but we're talking the average customer. Aka, mom and dad.

[Kaijufan]

They don't need Halo 3 ready for launch, they need it ready by the time PS3 is launched.
I agree with that, and I wouldn't be surprised if thats the day we see Halo 3 in stores.

[Drico]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.

[CapAmerica]

Professional is 100x better then Home.
I feel sorry for anyone who has to uses XP Home, It really blows.

[swetooth9]

drake 2: drake of the 99 problems and a dragon aint one


:lol:

[RandyTsai]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.


Well i made the comparison to windows to show that fact that mircosoft is individualizing their product to the masses, which is a great marketing strategy. Why are their different classes of the same model of cars. To fit individual needs. Some may need the options and same may not. To put it in laymen's term. XBox Next doesnt come with a harddrive. So it is geared for those who don't need that option. Xbox Next hd has the added hd, and users who need that option will purchase that product and so on with xbox next pc. Im sure mircosoft has done their research and have concluded that individualizing has worked.

[int80h]

Rare became irrelevant after Free Radical broke off.

[Indiana]

The new Xbox will sell well. Let's face the facts. It is the only console coming out this winter. If it is released before Christmas they will sell every console that is on the shelf. I mean let's face it you can't even find a PS2 system after this christmas! The system is over 4 years OLD!

I'm afraid that Nintendo may be the company in trouble on the next generation of consoles. They are planning on launching agains Sony during the same holiday. I think that will be the biggest mistake.

[int80h]

I say just release the hard drive non computer version of the Xbox 2.

A video game console is a computer, whether it has a hard drive or not.

[Drico]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.


Well i made the comparison to windows to show that fact that mircosoft is individualizing their product to the masses, which is a great marketing strategy. Why are their different classes of the same model of cars. To fit individual needs. Some may need the options and same may not. To put it in laymen's term. XBox Next there is no harddrive. So users that don't need that option will purchases that product. Xbox Next hd has the added hd, and users who need that option will purchase that product and so on with xbox next pc. Im sure mircosoft has done their marketing research and have concluded that individualizing has worked.


A very large majority of console sales are from clueless parents, when they see 3 different kinds of Xbox's in front of them, naturally they'll be clueless as to which one to get, and instead of getting one that "might not run this game" or some dumb bullshit parents come up with..... What will they do? More than likely, buy a Nintendo or Sony console. If Microsoft goes through with the 3 different consoles, I'm 101% convinced that the Xbox 2 will fail.

Do you realize how cheap it is to print different kinds of an OS? Consoles cost hundreds to make. A windows CD costs about a penny. Your sodomizing, indivualizing, whatever the hell your talking about doesn't really work. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[RandyTsai]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.


Well i made the comparison to windows to show that fact that mircosoft is individualizing their product to the masses, which is a great marketing strategy. Why are their different classes of the same model of cars. To fit individual needs. Some may need the options and same may not. To put it in laymen's term. XBox Next there is no harddrive. So users that don't need that option will purchases that product. Xbox Next hd has the added hd, and users who need that option will purchase that product and so on with xbox next pc. Im sure mircosoft has done their marketing research and have concluded that individualizing has worked.


A very large majority of console sales are from clueless parents, when they see 3 different kinds of Xbox's in front of them, naturally they'll be clueless as to which one to get, and instead of getting one that "might not run this game" or some dumb bullshit parents come up with..... What will they do? More than likely, buy a Nintendo or Sony console. If Microsoft goes through with the 3 different consoles, I'm 101% convinced that the Xbox 2 will fail.

Do you realize how cheap it is to print different kinds of an OS? Consoles cost hundreds to make. A windows CD costs about a penny. Your sodomizing, indivualizing, whatever the hell your talking about doesn't really work. You're comparing apples to oranges.


You know what, Im so glad your theory is correct since the automobile industry is failing. I have the hardest time deciding which model of automobile to purchase since im so flutter about all the options that are offered. and you know wha, on top of that i have no clue what these option do. What in hell is antilock breaks? You know what what? Im just going to purchase a bike and ccmmute with that. Oh wait, what in the world is a 3 speed bike?
Oh know why are there so many options. why cant they just tell me what to buy.

What microsoft is doing with their console has worked in other industry and it will work in the gaming industry.

[peteyrose]

I'll be buying a Xbox 2 at launch. Xbox appealed to me the most out of the three consoles out now, and face it, they've really proven themselves this gen. My Xbox collection is 3x my PS2 and GC collection combined :cool:

[Drico]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.


Well i made the comparison to windows to show that fact that mircosoft is individualizing their product to the masses, which is a great marketing strategy. Why are their different classes of the same model of cars. To fit individual needs. Some may need the options and same may not. To put it in laymen's term. XBox Next there is no harddrive. So users that don't need that option will purchases that product. Xbox Next hd has the added hd, and users who need that option will purchase that product and so on with xbox next pc. Im sure mircosoft has done their marketing research and have concluded that individualizing has worked.


A very large majority of console sales are from clueless parents, when they see 3 different kinds of Xbox's in front of them, naturally they'll be clueless as to which one to get, and instead of getting one that "might not run this game" or some dumb bullshit parents come up with..... What will they do? More than likely, buy a Nintendo or Sony console. If Microsoft goes through with the 3 different consoles, I'm 101% convinced that the Xbox 2 will fail.

Do you realize how cheap it is to print different kinds of an OS? Consoles cost hundreds to make. A windows CD costs about a penny. Your sodomizing, indivualizing, whatever the hell your talking about doesn't really work. You're comparing apples to oranges.


You know what, Im so glad your theory is correct since the automobile industry is failing. I have the hardest time deciding which model of automobile to purchase since im so flutter about all the options that are offered. and you know wha, on top of that i have no clue what these option do. What in hell is antilock breaks? You know what what? Im just going to purchase a bike and ccmmute with that. Oh wait, what in the world is a 3 speed bike?
Oh know why are there so many options. why cant they just tell me what to buy.

What microsoft is doing with their console has worked in other industry and it will work in the gaming industry.


It's official. You're a douchebag.

Like I said, you're comparing apples to oranges.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES?

Please. Lock this topic. I can't take this guys stupidity.

[atreyue]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about over the "average buyer". Most parents either give their kids money to buy whatever they want or get exactly what their kids tell them anyway.

Over time, I'm sure the XBOX2 will do just fine, because, horning in on the PC game market is an extremely smart move. PC games still do far better online than console games do, so a hybrid sytem would rock the MMORPG world if it's done properly. Everybody just seems to love to be on the MS bashing bandwagon. I vividly remember just how many people bashed the XB when it was first rumored and released. At some point you have to accept that MS knows what's going on in the tech world and are poising themselves (with ideas like the media center pc) to completely dominate home entertainment. I'm sure they already know exactly how this is going to fit in.

[Indiana]

Both Sony and Microsoft have proven that $300 consoles sell well. Parents are spending more money on their kids christmas than ever before. I am convinced that there are enough Middle to upper class parents that will buy whatever is released at Christmas time. Those same kids will get the PS3 the following year. The only difference is that Microsoft will have more sales next gen because they released first.

I will be buying whichever system is under $200 first. That's what I did this generation.... I got the GC from my wife on christmas because it was $199...

[atreyue]

It's official. You're a douchebag.

Like I said, you're comparing apples to oranges.

WHAT THE shaq-fu DOES THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES?

Please. Lock this topic. I can't take this guys stupidity.

:rofl:

When logic fails, resort to name-calling. Never fails to make you look stupid It's a common practice to analyze customers' buying habits in different areas. People who don't understand the differences btw the systems will do what the normally do:buy the one that has everything. No worries.

[RandyTsai]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

LOL! Professional is designed for networks, businesses, etc so it will always have it's place. Your posts give me a headache.


Well i made the comparison to windows to show that fact that mircosoft is individualizing their product to the masses, which is a great marketing strategy. Why are their different classes of the same model of cars. To fit individual needs. Some may need the options and same may not. To put it in laymen's term. XBox Next there is no harddrive. So users that don't need that option will purchases that product. Xbox Next hd has the added hd, and users who need that option will purchase that product and so on with xbox next pc. Im sure mircosoft has done their marketing research and have concluded that individualizing has worked.


A very large majority of console sales are from clueless parents, when they see 3 different kinds of Xbox's in front of them, naturally they'll be clueless as to which one to get, and instead of getting one that "might not run this game" or some dumb bullshit parents come up with..... What will they do? More than likely, buy a Nintendo or Sony console. If Microsoft goes through with the 3 different consoles, I'm 101% convinced that the Xbox 2 will fail.

Do you realize how cheap it is to print different kinds of an OS? Consoles cost hundreds to make. A windows CD costs about a penny. Your sodomizing, indivualizing, whatever the hell your talking about doesn't really work. You're comparing apples to oranges.


You know what, Im so glad your theory is correct since the automobile industry is failing. I have the hardest time deciding which model of automobile to purchase since im so flutter about all the options that are offered. and you know wha, on top of that i have no clue what these option do. What in hell is antilock breaks? You know what what? Im just going to purchase a bike and ccmmute with that. Oh wait, what in the world is a 3 speed bike?
Oh know why are there so many options. why cant they just tell me what to buy.

What microsoft is doing with their console has worked in other industry and it will work in the gaming industry.


It's official. You're a douchebag.

Like I said, you're comparing apples to oranges.

WHAT THE shaq-fu DOES THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES?

Please. Lock this topic. I can't take this guys stupidity.


Just look at this, your disagreeing with a billion dollar Corporation who has speed millions on research. You are not looking at the whole picture. You really don't have an understanding of what mircosoft is doing. Your only arguement is that the "average" consumer is going to be confused with the different verison and decide that it would be easiler to purchase the playstation product or the nintendo product. What if those consumers are confused with the nintendo product and playstation product as well?

Mutiple verison is going to benefit both the corporation and the end users. We now have the options to individualize our products which is great for us. This will also benefit microsoft since they have lost sales to playstation and gamecube because of the fact that they had a built in harddrive. Alot of consumers did not need that harddrive and bought ps2 and gc instead.

[bignick]

If Windows Professional Edition and Windows Home Editions is an indication of what happens when mutiple verison of the same product is release, i am sure that mircosoft xbox will not have any problems.

Dont forget media center! I like the idea of 3 systems. You can get what you want. If you dont want all of the extras, your not stuck paying for them. If you want everything you can get it. Sounds like a good idea to me. Just look at how many options there are for cars.

[Eric467]

Can someone break down how these "3 systems" would differ? I haven't heard about this at all. Thanks.

[Cracka]

Let's talk about the release.

So most people think the Xbox 2 will be released in fall or winter of this year. Here's the thing, it seems like just yesterday that the Xbox was released. It's been out for 3 years, but let's face it, it sucked for the first 2, and people have recently just 'gotten into it' ... Supposedly Nintendo and Sony won't launch theirs until fall or winter of 2006.

So the release of Xbox 2 will do bad because to you it feels like it was just released yesterday..

Like somebody else said, the first 2 years of the original xbox sucked because they were new to the market and people werent sure how it was gonna turn out. Microsoft has gained people's trust with the first Xbox.

Let's talk about the possible launch games.

It's a well known fact that Halo was the only thing that saved the Xbox from being a failure. Halo 3 will clearly not be a launch title, and really what else is there? Project Gotham? Crimson Skies? Some average XSN games? Please. They've packed in Crimson Skies with Live and stopped developing most of the XSN games for a reason. Most third parties are delivering their big sequels to the current gen consoles, and will not have a big release at the launch of the Xbox 2.

yes of course. The only games on xbox that people play are project gotham racing, crimson skies, and xsn sports games. There's nothing else, and so obviously there will be no good launch titles at all.

Let's talk about this 3-types-of-console business.

Haha. What a joke. The average consumer is not interested in this. When it comes time to choose, people are going to be boggled over which one to choose (especially parents), and 9 out of 10 would go for the Revolution or PS3, guaranteed. Do we really need an Xbox that plays PC games? An Xbox without a HD? Looks like Microsoft is going cheap on us. This is the kind of gimmick that would have been tryed in the 90's, not now.

"the average consumer is not interested in this." ...wtf that doesnt even make sense. Theres nothing to not be interested in. Theres a regular Xbox 2 with a hard drive like the original. Theres a cheaper version without the hard drive, and theres one thats basically a computer.

I seriously dont see what you mean by "the average consumer is not interested in this." Alot of people will want an xbox but wont be able to afford the one with the hard drive, so they can buy the cheaper one and still be able to play xbox 2 games.

Some will want the hard drive, but will not want a full blown computer, so they will buy the one with the hard drive.

And i'm sure alot of the people in the mod community will buy the PC version. Some people will be wanting a xbox and possibly a computer also but wont be able to buy both.

The "average consumer isnt interested in this" doesnt really make sense and isnt a good argument for why xbox 2 is gonna fail.

Let's talk about money.

After shelling out money on Xbox, games, Live, etc, do you think most people are going to want to pay their nuts for some kind of super equipped PC Xbox, 3 years and some months later? I know I can't afford it this year, and judging from the current rumors/details I won't want one for a long time, if at all. The minimum time between consoles is 5 years, unless of course, you're aiming for a flop. People are still spending money on their current consoles, now more than ever perhaps. There is still profit in the Xbox. Why does Microsoft feel the need to push some new consoles up our ass so soon? So they can charge us another few hundred to play Halo 3 (despite it not being ready for at least another 2-3 years) ...

... you dont have to "pay your nuts" for a the PC Xbox.... you can buy the one with the hard drive which is alot cheaper, or the one without the harddrive which is even more cheap.

I agree that they could make alot of money if they just kept working on the original xbox, but thats their decision.

Now if the xbox 2 has backwards compatibility, people could buy the xbox 2, get rid of their original xbox, and still be able to buy xbox 1 games and xbox 2 games.

Let's do some addition.

Early release + Guaranteed So-So launch titles. + Some 3 console bullshit gimmick that not even the Infinium would dare try. + Robbing us blind. = Failure.

there arent "guaranteed so-so launch titles".. you dont know whats gonna be released and what's not.

The 3 console "gimmick" isnt gonna cause the console to fail... that really has nothing to do with sales.

Not sure how they're "robbing you blind" or how Robbing you blind would cause the xbox 2 to fail..


I'm no fanboy. I own a Xbox,GameCube, and just recently traded my PS2... When the time comes, I'll probably go with the PS3. Xbox 2 is shaping up to be bullocks, Revolution is destined to fail (Nintendo is going the way of Sega), so Sony is my only real option, although I didn't care much for the PS1 and right now the PS2 is the worst of the current 3 consoles, IMO. Even the PS3, I won't grab until probably the first pricedrop, or whenever it gets a good selection of games.

... so according to this paragraph you basically say the GC is gonna do bad, and the ps3 isnt gonna launch with any good games either and you wont buy it until the price drops which is probably about a year into sales.

not sure why this whole thread is about just xbox failing because according to you, not only is xbox gonna fail, the Revolution is destined to fail, and even though you "didnt care for the ps1", and the Ps2 "is the worst of the current 3 consoles", you're gonna buy the ps3... i dont really see your reasoning behind that.

[dpatel]

The 3 systems idea is great. Only problem is, I feel the HD won't be used as much as it normally would. Developers might hesitate to have HD support in their games because that would alienate everyone who bought the basic xbox 2.

xbox 2 being released a year early will give them a huge head start but in the long run it will hurt them. PS2 sold tremendously at launch despite its crappy launch titles (I bought one at launch). It has been way ahead of its competitors ever since but MS and GCN have been catching up. The same will most likely happen this time around but MS won't have as big of a head start.

I think the xbox2 will also sell solely on the fact that it will read HD-DVD's which will be the new thing this upcoming year. The ps2 sold well because it was a DVD player and game system in one, and xbox2 will have a similar effect.

It's still too early to tell because of the few details that have been released. We will just have to wait for E3.

kinda off topic but does anyone know what format the revolution will use? I know ps3 will use blu ray and xbox2 hd dvd.

[mmn]

I'm sorry if I'm repeating someone, but I didn't want to go through 3 pages of replies to get to this point.

If nobody has mentioned it yet, the reason, the BIG reason, the Xbox 2 will not fail is because Microsoft has $80 gabillion extra dollars that are sitting around doing nothing and they are ADAMANT about the Xbox being the #1 home video game console. MS will spend ANY amount and will take a loss to get Xbox consoles in homes.

Microsoft seems pretty confident about the Xbox and they have one advantage over Sony and Nintendo - they're willing to do anything to beat their competition. If worse comes to worse they'll pull an EA and buy up every game company out there just so you have no choice but to buy an Xbox if you want to play any type of decent game.

[RandyTsai]

I'm sorry if I'm repeating someone, but I didn't want to go through 3 pages of replies to get to this point.

If nobody has mentioned it yet, the reason, the BIG reason, the Xbox 2 will not fail is because Microsoft has $80 gabillion extra dollars that are sitting around doing nothing and they are ADAMANT about the Xbox being the #1 home video game console. MS will spend ANY amount and will take a loss to get Xbox consoles in homes.

Microsoft seems pretty confident about the Xbox and they have one advantage over Sony and Nintendo - they're willing to do anything to beat their competition. If worse comes to worse they'll pull an EA and buy up every game company out there just so you have no choice but to buy an Xbox if you want to play any type of decent game.

You are absolutely right. It would a lot cheaper to just mass production 1 verison of XBOX 2, but they decided to spend more $$$ to design 3 verisons to meet consumer needs and capture the market.

[Drico]

Technically, the Xbox is a failure. They've made 0 profit from it. So yes, it is possible for the Xbox 2 to fail in that sense. When they realize it's not going to put out any profit, then they would stop supporting it and dump the whole home console business, as someone mentioned earlier.

The 3 console "gimmick" isnt gonna cause the console to fail... that really has nothing to do with sales.

It does to an extent, but it's still a hit towards M$ pocket, because these PC Xbox's won't sell, and are going to cost alot to make.

yes of course. The only games on xbox that people play are project gotham racing, crimson skies, and xsn sports games. There's nothing else, and so obviously there will be no good launch titles at all.

Maybe to you there will be good games, but if you look at sales, almost the only thing that puts out enough profit for a sequel is Halo. Halo is the Xbox's life support, like it or not. Halo 3 will eventually be out on the Xbox 2, but it could very well be too little, too late.

I'm amazed by how many fanboys I've stirred up.

When Microsoft is overstocked on these PC and HD Xbox's, then maybe you'll see what I'm talking about. These things cost alot to make. The majority of people are going to get the cheapest one.


Maybe all this 3 console shit sounds great to you, but videogame geeks, believe it or not, make up a very small majority of sales.


... so according to this paragraph you basically say the GC is gonna do bad, and the ps3 isnt gonna launch with any good games either and you wont buy it until the price drops which is probably about a year into sales.

not sure why this whole thread is about just xbox failing because according to you, not only is xbox gonna fail, the Revolution is destined to fail, and even though you "didnt care for the ps1", and the Ps2 "is the worst of the current 3 consoles", you're gonna buy the ps3... i dont really see your reasoning behind that.

I'm saying the Revolution will fail, because it's Nintendo's time. It's happened to every other console maker, and look at their past 3. They can't afford to keep churning out failures. The Xbox 2 will fail because of ludicrous choices by Microsoft, who will definitely be showing its "newbieness" next gen. The Revolution will be neck and neck with the Xbox 2, both suffering from less than stellar sales. Nintendo will drop out, then again Microsoft could stay in the game because of less competition in the future-gen.

You are absolutely right. It would a lot cheaper to just mass production 1 verison of XBOX 2, but they decided to spend more $$$ to design 3 verisons to meet consumer needs and capture the market.


Meet consumer needs? Most consumers are going to get the cheapest one. They are going to be taking losses from this, because not enough people will be buying the HD Xbox (it'll have no support from devs!) , or the PC Xbox (needs no explaining), and they'll be stacked to the roof with these things. I don't know about you, but in my eyes, that's a waste of money.


Microsoft is trying to integrate the PC and Console gaming market, which is not a good idea. Xbox Live with PC players is going to suck majorly.

[dafoomie]

It's been out for 3 years, but let's face it, it sucked for the first 2, and people have recently just 'gotten into it'
How did it suck for the first two years? Xbox Live came out 1 year after, with strong titles such as Mechassault, Ghost Recon, the Sega Sports 2k3 titles, and CvS2, along with some very good non-live titles that came out within the first year.

It's a well known fact that Halo was the only thing that saved the Xbox from being a failure.
Halo, Dead or Alive 3, Fuzion Frenzy, and Project Gotham were solid launch titles. The PS2 launch was nothing special either.

Supposedly Nintendo and Sony won't launch theirs until fall or winter of 2006.
PS3 will launch in Q1 06 (Jan-March) in Japan.

Halo 3 will clearly not be a launch title, and really what else is there? Project Gotham? Crimson Skies? Some average XSN games? Please.
You're speculating about launch titles a year from now. Its about as valid a point as me saying that PS3 has no launch titles as of now.

Most third parties are delivering their big sequels to the current gen consoles, and will not have a big release at the launch of the Xbox 2.
You're speculating again. Having a big title for launch of a new console would be more appealing than a sequel on the console being replaced. Also, you could say the same for any of the other consoles.

Let's talk about this 3-types-of-console business.
Lets not, its just a rumor. Its as much a rumor as Halo 2.5, as is most of your speculation. I like how you dismiss some speculation, and embrace others.

I'm no fanboy.
Really?

[CappyCobra]

Ahh, well spoken! :applause:

[Drico]

It's been out for 3 years, but let's face it, it sucked for the first 2, and people have recently just 'gotten into it'
How did it suck for the first two years? Xbox Live came out 1 year after, with strong titles such as Mechassault, Ghost Recon, the Sega Sports 2k3 titles, and CvS2, along with some very good non-live titles that came out within the first year.

It's a well known fact that Halo was the only thing that saved the Xbox from being a failure.
Halo, Dead or Alive 3, Fuzion Frenzy, and Project Gotham were solid launch titles. The PS2 launch was nothing special either.

Supposedly Nintendo and Sony won't launch theirs until fall or winter of 2006.
PS3 will launch in Q1 06 (Jan-March) in Japan.

Halo 3 will clearly not be a launch title, and really what else is there? Project Gotham? Crimson Skies? Some average XSN games? Please.
You're speculating about launch titles a year from now. Its about as valid a point as me saying that PS3 has no launch titles as of now.

Most third parties are delivering their big sequels to the current gen consoles, and will not have a big release at the launch of the Xbox 2.
You're speculating again. Having a big title for launch of a new console would be more appealing than a sequel on the console being replaced. Also, you could say the same for any of the other consoles.

Let's talk about this 3-types-of-console business.
Lets not, its just a rumor. Its as much a rumor as Halo 2.5, as is most of your speculation. I like how you dismiss some speculation, and embrace others.

I'm no fanboy.
Really?


I don't give a fuck about "solid titles" .. Those "solid titles" are very far from console sellers. Most won't even get a sequel. The Revolution will undoubtedly launch with a Mario title, PS3 will launch with its typical array of shitty titles with a couple big names, but still manage because it's a Playstation (Ps2 launch anyone?), Xbox 2 will launch with what? Some no-name game like Fuzion Frenzy? It won't have Halo to save its launch this time.

You're speculating again. Having a big title for launch of a new console would be more appealing than a sequel on the console being replaced. Also, you could say the same for any of the other consoles.

That's no speculation. That's fact. Look at the upcoming releases for current gen consoles. The "big guys" are coming out this year (Tekken, Zelda, FF, etc) and they won't have another one ready for the new consoles.




And I'll say it again. I'm no fanboy. I own an Xbox and GC and am very happy with them both. I was also happy with my PS2, but I traded it in for an Xbox so I could play on Live, among other things. I've been an Xbox supporter since before it was even released, but the Xbox's 2 failure is right in front of your face. Fanboys are just a little too ignorant to realize it.

[cthcky33]

and elder scrolls IV will probably be a launch title

[CaseyRyback]

I have to say I totally agree with Drico. The first year of Live was horrible. Until Rainbow Six 3 came out, there were no killer apps, and by that time the PC version had been out for forever and I had played enough to not need to buy the console version.

Also MS has deep pockets, but they also have a history of trying things, getting somewhere, and then pulling out (AdmiralAckbar posted an article a few months ago that proved this point). Also they do not have a good track record with companies who are financially persuaded to release games on their system as far as sales (companies like SEGA)

When it comes to Online Play it is pretty much going to be decided by which system is the easiest to port PC games to and what system can handle the MP aspects from them the best. MS basically built live out of franchises that originated on the PC and PC publishers flocked to the system to get a cut of the console market. IF they find a system better than the Xbox to do this on, they will.

As far as a launch, I do not think the Xbox 2 will sell all that well (solid sales, but nothing mind blowing) . Basically you will see a few titles for it, but like someone already stated, sales of the system have only picked up the last two Christmas's. None of these people are going to quick run out and buy another system for that much money unless there are some decent launch titles and they can get the hype machine going again, and doing that effectively is going to be very hard.

Microsoft is also going to have to get more Japanese Companies to release games on their system. If SONY and Nintendo can take away the Japanese development market like they did this generation, the Xbox will pretty much be assured of being only second or third in sales

[JohnHam]

I do not think it'll fail.

It might be rough, but in the end, MS will have a better foothold vs. sony in this leg of the wars.

MS has the money and they are willing to take a hit on the systems and make back their money on games. This will allow them to release it at a competitive price.

Biggest problem now would be lack of HDD.

[Drico]

I do not think it'll fail.

It might be rough, but in the end, MS will have a better foothold vs. sony in this leg of the wars.

MS has the money and they are willing to take a hit on the systems and make back their money on games. This will allow them to release it at a competitive price.

Biggest problem now would be lack of HDD.

Microsoft isn't making profit from games. They aren't making a profit, period. As someone mentioned earlier, if the Xbox 2 does not turn out profit then the chances of Xbox 3 are slim to none.

[dafoomie]

I have to say I totally agree with Drico. The first year of Live was horrible. Until Rainbow Six 3 came out, there were no killer apps, and by that time the PC version had been out for forever and I had played enough to not need to buy the console version.
Mechassault and Ghost Recon. I played Mechassault religiously until Mechassault 2 came out.

And the "solid titles" I mentioned Drico, 3 of the 4 already have sequels. Fuzion Frenzy wasn't bad either.

So why doesn't the "theyre putting their big titles on this generation's hardware" theory hold true for the other consoles?

[CapAmerica]

Okay here is my two cents on the 3 Console thing.

Having a choices between a Model with an HD and without it s pretty good idea. It like being given the choices of a PS2 or a PSTwo. and with maybe a $100 or even $50 differences its going to be a good option. And if one sells very bad in the first year MS could easily discontinue it.

As for the Xbox2 PC, since it isn't due out till a year after the Xbox2 and XboxTwo there is a good chance it may never see the light of day. In case no one remembers the Xbox was supposed to get a Xbox PC but MS canncelled the plan because the Xbox wasn't selling well enough and not turning a profit.

[Dr Mario Kart]

does anyone have any numbers concerning how much profit this whole xbox venture has made? I was under the impression that even with the sucess of Halo 2, they are in debt.

[KingDox]

Xbox 2 will sell, you want to know why ?

Because it will have halo 3 on it.

Maybe not at luanch but it will come out.

I remember when the PS2 had really crappy Launch games. Everyone said they got it for MGS2. They were willing to wait for the good software. And the xbox fans will do the same.

Kids start to pre-order one. Because even if the luanch sucks, they will sell plenty of xbox 2's.

Anyone who really thinks the xbox 2 will fail is kidding them selfs. The luanch may suck, it may take 2nd place to the PS3. But it's not going to fail.

[schultzed]

I like the Xbox best of the 3 consoles but I think Sony really trumps in selection of games.

Unless MS can get Japanese developers on board they will always be second fiddle.

It is true that coming out first does not ensure victory . . .

It is too early to say who's strategy will be best.

Nintendo will have a hard time because of their lack of experience in online play.

[Drico]

I have to say I totally agree with Drico. The first year of Live was horrible. Until Rainbow Six 3 came out, there were no killer apps, and by that time the PC version had been out for forever and I had played enough to not need to buy the console version.
Mechassault and Ghost Recon. I played Mechassault religiously until Mechassault 2 came out.

And the "solid titles" I mentioned Drico, 3 of the 4 already have sequels. Fuzion Frenzy wasn't bad either.

So why doesn't the "theyre putting their big titles on this generation's hardware" theory hold true for the other consoles?

Nintendo will have the long rumored Mario 128 at the launch of the Revolution, that's a given.

Sony pulled it out with the PS2 without any real big titles (Tekken was it, and it was just TTT...) .. I'm not into the whole PS2 rpg scene and what-not so I honestly can't comment on it, because I don't even know that many big releases for the PS2, and what could possibly launch with the PS3.

Xbox 2 will sell, you want to know why ?

Because it will have halo 3 on it.

Maybe not at luanch but it will come out.

I remember when the PS2 had really crappy Launch games. Everyone said they got it for MGS2. They were willing to wait for the good software. And the xbox fans will do the same.

Kids start to pre-order one. Because even if the luanch sucks, they will sell plenty of xbox 2's.

Anyone who really thinks the xbox 2 will fail is kidding them selfs. The luanch be suck, it may take 2nd place to the PS3. But it's not going to fail.

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.

[RandyTsai]

it may take 2nd place to the PS3. But it's not going to fail.

too microsoft 2nd place is failure. but its not going to happen.

[dafoomie]

I have to say I totally agree with Drico. The first year of Live was horrible. Until Rainbow Six 3 came out, there were no killer apps, and by that time the PC version had been out for forever and I had played enough to not need to buy the console version.
Mechassault and Ghost Recon. I played Mechassault religiously until Mechassault 2 came out.

And the "solid titles" I mentioned Drico, 3 of the 4 already have sequels. Fuzion Frenzy wasn't bad either.

So why doesn't the "theyre putting their big titles on this generation's hardware" theory hold true for the other consoles?

Nintendo will have the long rumored Mario 128 at the launch of the Revolution, that's a given.

Sony pulled it out with the PS2 without any real big titles (Tekken was it, and it was just TTT...) .. I'm not into the whole PS2 rpg scene and what-not so I honestly can't comment on it, because I don't even know that many big releases for the PS2.

Xbox 2 will sell, you want to know why ?

Because it will have halo 3 on it.

Maybe not at luanch but it will come out.

I remember when the PS2 had really crappy Launch games. Everyone said they got it for MGS2. They were willing to wait for the good software. And the xbox fans will do the same.

Kids start to pre-order one. Because even if the luanch sucks, they will sell plenty of xbox 2's.

Anyone who really thinks the xbox 2 will fail is kidding them selfs. The luanch be suck, it may take 2nd place to the PS3. But it's not going to fail.

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.
So, Xbox 2 needs a strong lineup, but PS3 doesn't? Right.
MS is in this for the long haul. Their goal is to be the hub of your entertainment, your media center. They're not just in this for videogames. They want everything you see, your TV, your movies, your games, your internet, to go through either their service or their product. This is also Sony's goal, but more content delivery oriented.

[CaseyRyback]

I have to say I totally agree with Drico. The first year of Live was horrible. Until Rainbow Six 3 came out, there were no killer apps, and by that time the PC version had been out for forever and I had played enough to not need to buy the console version.
Mechassault and Ghost Recon. I played Mechassault religiously until Mechassault 2 came out.

And the "solid titles" I mentioned Drico, 3 of the 4 already have sequels. Fuzion Frenzy wasn't bad either.

So why doesn't the "theyre putting their big titles on this generation's hardware" theory hold true for the other consoles?


for me personally I did not find any of those titles appealing. Unreal Championship was a really good game and could have been a killer app if they would have put more time into it (it was the game I got live for).

As far as actual launch titles, the only launch title I played that I liked was Halo (MP and Rallisport are also very good as well)

I got my Xbox after the first price drop, and already had a GCN. It seemed like it took forever for some decent Xbox titles to trickle out, and in the meantime, Nintendo was releasing one a month from May on.

For that reason alone, I will not pick up an Xbox Next until there are a lot of good titles and they are steadily streaming out.

[RandyTsai]

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.

there is no way in hell xbox is going to last after xbox 2. individuals are already replacing the cpu on the xbox. with xbox 2, replacing the cpu is going to become more mainsteam and it will lead to the doom of xbox.

[Drico]

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.
So, Xbox 2 needs a strong lineup, but PS3 doesn't? Right.



Your intelligent replies are welcome, much more so than some other peoples *cough* RandyTsai *cough* but please stop fucking misquoting me.

[CapAmerica]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

[RandyTsai]

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.
So, Xbox 2 needs a strong lineup, but PS3 doesn't? Right.



Your intelligent replies are welcome, much more so than some other peoples *cough* RandyTsai *cough* but please stop shaq-fuing misquoting me.

read your original post and tell me what your first impressions are after reading it. your not really clear on what you are saying. profit and failure are totally different.

[Drico]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. Maybe because they're inexperienced in the console field? They're trying to beat everyone to the punch, but that punch is going to have no strength. ;)

[dafoomie]

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.
So, Xbox 2 needs a strong lineup, but PS3 doesn't? Right.



Your intelligent replies are welcome, much more so than some other peoples *cough* RandyTsai *cough* but please stop shaq-fuing misquoting me.

You said:
Sony pulled it out with the PS2 without any real big titles (Tekken was it, and it was just TTT...) .. I'm not into the whole PS2 rpg scene and what-not so I honestly can't comment on it, because I don't even know that many big releases for the PS2, and what could possibly launch with the PS3.

And you're arguing that the lack of titles is going to hurt Xbox 2. So, you're implying that Xbox 2 needs to, but PS3 doesn't? Also, you've shown nothing to incicate whether one will have a better one or not.

[Drico]

But how will MS profit from it? My point is, it has to do much better than even the Xbox is doing, for there to be an Xbox 3.
So, Xbox 2 needs a strong lineup, but PS3 doesn't? Right.



Your intelligent replies are welcome, much more so than some other peoples *cough* RandyTsai *cough* but please stop shaq-fuing misquoting me.

You said:
Sony pulled it out with the PS2 without any real big titles (Tekken was it, and it was just TTT...) .. I'm not into the whole PS2 rpg scene and what-not so I honestly can't comment on it, because I don't even know that many big releases for the PS2, and what could possibly launch with the PS3.

And you're arguing that the lack of titles is going to hurt Xbox 2. So, you're implying that Xbox 2 needs to, but PS3 doesn't? Also, you've shown nothing to incicate whether one will have a better one or not.

Like I said, I'm not much into the PS2, and don't know jack shit about the developers, the upcoming releases for the PS2, and what could possibly be ready for the PS3 launch. People recognize that Halo has carried the Xbox, and when the X2 releases with bullshit titles, it's not a good impression. The PS is known to have a ton of big name titles, while the only blockbuster exclusives the Xbox has is Halo.

[CapAmerica]

PS2 had all the PSOne titles for launch they really didn't need many hit titles because they had all the hit titles from the PSOne. Sony sold the PS2 on one things, you get a DVD player. the DVD player was the major selling feature at the time.

Who cared about games, I can still play my PSOne games, but damn a DVD player that can play my PSOne games Hot damn I want one!

The PS3 will need more hit games at launch because I personally don't see the Blu-Ray Player being a big selling feature as the DVD player was.

[Kayden]

Since its inception, Microsoft hasn't really had anything for good original products... DOS wasn't even made by MS. Billy G bought it off some poor schlep for a few bills and then turned around and licensed it to IMB for a hell of a lot of money. All MS really knows how to do is buy innovation. They bought Halo so theyd have something to push. They've bought out several developers of linux programs and either shut them down or ported them to windows. I wouldnt doubt it if that rumor that MS tried to buy Nintendo was true... Their pockets are deep enough.

Look at their sales strategy to date with dos 1.0 to windows xp. Every year or two they push out a steaming log thats half done and full of holes only to release 'the most secure version ever' for full price another 2-3 years later.
1985 - Windows 1.0
1987 - Windows 2.0
1990 - Windows 3.0
1991-1992 - Windows 3.1 & Windows for workgroups
1993 - Windows NT
1995 - Windows 95 & Windows NT 4.0 that came in 4 versions
1998 - Windows 98
2000 - Windows ME & 2000, 2000 again with 4 versions
2001 - Windows XP, yet again, 4 versions
2003 - Windows Server 2003 which also has 3-4 versions

MS was hoping for a 2005 release on Longhorn... but they couldnt get their act together... nor does it apear they will anytime soon.

They also have another server version in the works.

Now... this may look like service and dedication, but these aren't patches or upgrades. They were all full retail packages that went for 200-400 even ~1000 for server versions. This isnt even counting the 100000 versions of MS office.

Theyre actually just milking the cow by selling products that fix problems they shouldn't have had in the first place or should have patched for free.

They force us to buy the new stuff because they simply stop supporting the old stuff... which I'm sure most of us are aware...

Theyre going to do the same thing in the console market. Or atleast try. The only way the can get away with blugeoning us with OSs like this is because they don't have much competion. Linux is too hard for the mainstream user and Macs just dont have the third party support. (Although, Microsoft is losing big ground world wide to governments. The government of China went with linux as have others)

They cant be so arogant in the console market because they actually have real competition there. Nintendo and Sony already have a huge fan base. Yet... I do admit that Nintendo really dropped the ball with the Cube... atleast for me. I only own about 8 GCN games and I don't even play them much. I have more PS2 games I havent played yet than GCN games I own. And as far as the Xbox goes... I have 5 games that come to mind that I really want to play. Halo, Halo 2, Fable, Riddick and Ninja Gaiden. Two of which are supposed to be huge let downs...

Personally, I find the whole online play thing proposterous... I play my console games so I dont have to deal with idiots. Shooters play better on a PC... hands down. I also find it presumtuous to charge for online play.
$300 for the console
$50 for the game
$50 a month for internet
$20 to be yelled at over a headset by a foul-mouthed, squeeky voiced 13 year old that will call me a n00b for not having the knowledge of the game instilled in me upon conception.

Sure, PCs cost a lot more than a console, but atleast my possiblities are potentially limitless.

Online play also scares me to some degree... the more popular it gets the lazier developers seem to get.

Stories and general quality of play have been steadily dropping. The single player element is dwindling as developers rely more and more upon the consumers to supply entertainment to each other.

[dpatel]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

PS2 did the same thing. They didn't have any killer titles until the second year. When XBOX and GCN were released, ps2 was in its second year and had games like GTA3, MGS2, Smackdown 3, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3, and others.

[Drico]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

PS2 did the same thing. They didn't have any killer titles until the second year. When XBOX and GCN were released, ps2 was in its second year and had games like GTA3, MGS2, Smackdown 3, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3, and others.

But the PS2 has backwards compatability, and a DVD player. DVD players were just breakin in when the PS2 was released, so everyone wanted one. Also, it had so much hype generated from the PS1. The Xbox can't even begin to touch the sales of the PS1.

[dpatel]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

PS2 did the same thing. They didn't have any killer titles until the second year. When XBOX and GCN were released, ps2 was in its second year and had games like GTA3, MGS2, Smackdown 3, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3, and others.

But the PS2 has backwards compatability, and a DVD player. DVD players were just breakin in when the PS2 was released, so everyone wanted one. Also, it had so much hype generated from the PS1. The Xbox can't even begin to touch the sales of the PS1.

do we know for sure if xbox2 will have backwards compatibility? I will agree that the xbox2, although taking a similar strategy to the ps2, will not even come close to the success that the ps2 had. But it will definetly not fail. This is coming from a long time PS2 owner and new GC owner. Never owned an xbox and have intrest in it.

[CapAmerica]

Didn't Sony push up the PS2 release because they didn't wasn't Sega to take back market shares with the DreamCast?

I remeber hearing that Sony didn't see Nintendo as a threat any more after creaming them in the 64bit War. But Sega was getting a lot of press and could have been a real problem for Sony so they pushed the PS2 up.

[CapAmerica]

Okay heres a question, If Halo3 is the only really the Xbox2 will succeed for, then why doesn't MS just wait till 2006 to relese the Xbox2 , that way they can have Halo3 as a launch title and a console that is as powerfull as the PS3 and N5.

Why have a extra year with your console on the market when you don't have anything to sell it with?

PS2 did the same thing. They didn't have any killer titles until the second year. When XBOX and GCN were released, ps2 was in its second year and had games like GTA3, MGS2, Smackdown 3, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3, and others.

But the PS2 has backwards compatability, and a DVD player. DVD players were just breakin in when the PS2 was released, so everyone wanted one. Also, it had so much hype generated from the PS1. The Xbox can't even begin to touch the sales of the PS1.

do we know for sure if xbox2 will have backwards compatibility? I will agree that the xbox2, although taking a similar strategy to the ps2, will not even come close to the success that the ps2 had. But it will definetly not fail. This is coming from a long time PS2 owner and new GC owner. Never owned an xbox and have intrest in it.

There is still no word on if the Xbox2 will be backwards compatibility. But by the way MS down plays backwards compatibility I lean twords unlikely.

[Drico]

The funny thing is, everyone keeps saying "The PS2 did the same thing" .. No they didn't. The Dreamcast did. Look where it is now.

[Trakan]

I think the PS2 did get some PS1 hype, but also think the reason most own only a PS2 now is because it had no third gen competition for a year. Everyone wanted the newest thing, and grabbed it up.

While I don't think the Xbox2 will do great, I do believe that people are now loving the Xbox, and will support their next system.

Drico, you said the casual gamer and Moms/Dads are the target customers and I think the Xbox2 being released early may be a good thing in terms of sales from that target. Kids always want the newest/best system and Moms/Dads always want to buy it for their kids. With one year between the releases, it might give it some time to build up and gain a lead on the competition.

[CapAmerica]

What sold the Xbox wasn't it being the best it was Halo.
Ask any Xbox user why they got a Xbox and almost every time the answer will be Halo. Occasionally you'll get someone who got it for a differnt game but extreamly rarely will you get some one who says they bought it because it was the most powerfull.

[CaseyRyback]

If they do not stick in one of the newer disc mediums they are done from the start (SEGA did this and it fucked them over).

They better include HD-DVD support or blue ray support

[dpatel]

The funny thing is, everyone keeps saying "The PS2 did the same thing" .. No they didn't. The Dreamcast did. Look where it is now.

how did dreamcast do the same thing? The dreamcast was released a year early, but they did have some good launch titles.

The way the xbox2 launch is being described sounds more like the ps2 launch. No killer apps until the following year when the other competing consoles are being released.

Dreamcast just wasn't marketed as well. Sony over hyped their console. IMO, Dreamcast was way better than the early years of the ps2.

[Sartori]

If they release one version for a $300-esque price, I'd buy. Also, Halo 2.5.

Ah, you bit Microsoft's cheezy bait. Nice job allowing them to get away with it.

[CapAmerica]

You know what Killed the DreamCast the most.
No DVD.

Sony pushed their console as also being a DVD player. Had Sega put in a DVD player with DVD Playback the DreamCast would still be around today.

[CapAmerica]

Oh MS has all ready said that the Xbox2 will be a HD-DVD player as well. Which is no surprize given the fact they are pushing the format. =P

PS3 - Blu-Ray
Xbox2 - HD-DVD
N5 - Unkown (at least DVD)

I think we might see Nintendo suport the HD-DVD format because first it isn't Sony and second they know the Xbox bombed in Japan so its unlikely the Xbox2 will do much better so for Nintendo being a HD-DVD player/Console in Japan would be a huge plus for them.

[doodle777_98]

Microsoft is just being money hungry.(like normal)

[Richlough]

What sold the Xbox wasn't it being the best it was Halo.
Ask any Xbox user why they got a Xbox and almost every time the answer will be Halo. Occasionally you'll get someone who got it for a differnt game but extreamly rarely will you get some one who says they bought it because it was the most powerfull.

You know what Killed the DreamCast the most.
No DVD.

Sony pushed their console as also being a DVD player. Had Sega put in a DVD player with DVD Playback the DreamCast would still be around today.
I didn't buy an Xbox to play Halo . I think no EA killed Dreamcast [between that and going with NEC power VR chip instead of VooDoo]
I'm a game fanatic but I represent the uncommon .
I don't buy
Madden
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear
Resident Evil
I'm sick of having to like what's popular, that's not why I play games .
Oh and I'll be buying Xbox 2 [either HD or PC] I won't settle for the least equipped version .

[MadChedar0]

Microsoft never fails. They will continue to pump money into the Xbox brand until it is #1. Seriously.

[XboxMaster]

There's no point to really voice my opinions deeply as every one of them has already been posted by others. All I have to say is that I'm definitely getting the next Xbox when it comes out.

[dafoomie]

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for not having good launch titles, when no one knows what launch titles it will have, and no one knows what launch titles the other next-gen consoles will have either.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for being potentially graphically inferior when its coming out 2 to 5 months before PS3 does. Xbox was launched 20 months after PS2, there will not be a similar disparity in graphics. Unless someone makes some very stupid design choices.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox for not having games or not having 1st party games. Its a tired, old argument that doesn't hold water anymore.

I don't know how you can single out Xbox 2 for not getting developers on board instead of the previous generation, when this could still apply to the other consoles.

I don't know how you can ignore Xbox's greatest strength for the next gen, Xbox Live. No one else is even close.


I don't know how you can make the argument that Xbox 2 will fail. It may not be the best or most popular console, but I seriously doubt that MS would pull the plug on it.

[XboxMaster]

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for not having good launch titles, when no one knows what launch titles it will have, and no one knows what launch titles the other next-gen consoles will have either.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for being potentially graphically inferior when its coming out 2 to 5 months before PS3 does. Xbox was launched 20 months after PS2, there will not be a similar disparity in graphics. Unless someone makes some very stupid design choices.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox for not having games or not having 1st party games. Its a tired, old argument that doesn't hold water anymore.

I don't know how you can single out Xbox 2 for not getting developers on board instead of the previous generation, when this could still apply to the other consoles.

I don't know how you can ignore Xbox's greatest strength for the next gen, Xbox Live. No one else is even close.


I don't know how you can make the argument that Xbox 2 will fail. It may not be the best or most popular console, but I seriously doubt that MS would pull the plug on it.


Thank you, thank you very much. You just erased ANY doubts caused by this thread about Xbox 2.

[stocker08]

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for not having good launch titles, when no one knows what launch titles it will have, and no one knows what launch titles the other next-gen consoles will have either.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox 2 for being potentially graphically inferior when its coming out 2 to 5 months before PS3 does. Xbox was launched 20 months after PS2, there will not be a similar disparity in graphics. Unless someone makes some very stupid design choices.

I don't know how you can criticize Xbox for not having games or not having 1st party games. Its a tired, old argument that doesn't hold water anymore.

I don't know how you can single out Xbox 2 for not getting developers on board instead of the previous generation, when this could still apply to the other consoles.

I don't know how you can ignore Xbox's greatest strength for the next gen, Xbox Live. No one else is even close.


I don't know how you can make the argument that Xbox 2 will fail. It may not be the best or most popular console, but I seriously doubt that MS would pull the plug on it.


Thank you, thank you very much. You just erased ANY doubts caused by this thread about Xbox 2.


yea, i have read through all of this and for some reason there has been almost nothing good said about Xbox 2. I am going to buy it. It is more powerful then any other system, with ease. You can tell by looking at ps2's more recent games.

The games for xbox, imo, are better also.
OP, you should get your "facts" straight or dont post any false rumors a until you know for sure because so far, most of the stuff you posted, is bullshit.......

[CapAmerica]

Microsoft never fails. They will continue to pump money into the Xbox brand until it is #1. Seriously.

Dude as I have said before MS might be rich but they are not stupid;

-WebTV
-Microsoft Bob
-MSX
-Windows XP for the Itanium
-Passport (MS has pretty much Axe this)
-Windows ME
-Buying Rare (okay maybe they were stupid here)

So no one gets the wrong idea I will most likely be getting a Xbox2 maybe not at launch but defintly by the first price drop. I'm just saying things that could go wrong or are going wrong. It doesn't mean failure. But they are problems MS needs to look into.

[lordxixor101]

What will be interesting is how the Sony hype machine is able to handle the Xbox coming out earlier. You have 2 huge companies duking it out.

Sony was able to make consumers believe that the Dreamcast wasn't truely next generation, and the generation wouldn't begin until the PS2 arrived. Will consumers be ready for the next generation this year?

To be honest, I've decided, unless plans change, to sit out of the console wars until at least 2006, maybe 2007. I want to see what games each system will get, etc. I want to know which franchises will be getting which games before I choose my first system to get.

Plus, I have to figure out which of the Xbox systems to get if they end up having 3 versions. The best way to figure it out is to let the early adopters buy their systems, and wait to see which options are best for me.

Though, I think this is dumb. Developers are going to develop most games for the lowest common denominator. So, if there are 3 different versions, they will develop for the weakest one.

[alongx]

Oh MS has all ready said that the Xbox2 will be a HD-DVD player as well. Which is no surprize given the fact they are pushing the format. =P

PS3 - Blu-Ray
Xbox2 - HD-DVD
N5 - Unkown (at least DVD)

I think we might see Nintendo suport the HD-DVD format because first it isn't Sony and second they know the Xbox bombed in Japan so its unlikely the Xbox2 will do much better so for Nintendo being a HD-DVD player/Console in Japan would be a huge plus for them.

Where did you see this? MS and Sony are both parts of the standards boards for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, and, last I checked, MS hadn't decided which they would go with. The advantage of HD-DVD is cheaper media, but the advantage of Blu-Ray is a higher storage capacity. If you could link to where you got this info from, I'd appreciate it, but I'm pretty sure, although it's likely that HD-DVD will be the Xbox2 media, that it isn't confirmed.


On a side note, I think that the PS4 will fail. It won't be out too long after the PS3 and it has like no launch games announced yet. Doomed to failure.

[CapAmerica]

The only console I know I will get a launch is the N5, I'll buy a N5 sololy on the fact that its new Hardware from Nintendo. (I'll always be a Nintendo Fanboy)

Xbox2 and PS3 I'll be waiting a little bit for. I'll pick them up either once the first price drop happens or when the first killer app that I want comes out. Pretty much just like what I did this gen.

I got the Cube first at launch, Infact I preOrdered it a year in advance. Got the PS2 once Final Fantasy X was released and got my Xbox when I founf it for $70 and because I wanted to play Sudeki and Fable (both games were huge disapointments, but at least the Xbox was the right price)

[MaxBiaggi3]

I buy all the systems, so I'll get Xbox 2, PS3 and N5 sooner or later regardless of their respective merits or limitations. I highly doubt I'll buy any of them at launch because I don't like paying full price for anything. I also don't like paying $50 for individual games, and it will probably be at least a year or so from launch before any of the new systems have established greatest hits "value" titles that regular people can afford.

[CapAmerica]

Okay I read an artical wrong, they are still trying to get MS to uses HD-DVD on the Xbox2 so Its not 100% offical yet.

http://xbox2.weblogsinc.com/entry/6684793146068903/

One reason I think its safe to say that MS will uses HD-DVD is because they are pushing the format because it may infact be useing the Windows Media Series 9 format. Also the Next version of Windows is going to suport HD-DVD while at this time no work on Blu-Ray

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Mar/gee20040301024062.htm