In the Spirit of .9999 not = 1 and 1.10 not = 1.1...

[Kayden]

Is zero an even or odd, possitive or negative number?

[orangemage]

even

[javeryh]

it's none of those.

[evilmax17]

Take any number divided by two, and then look at the remainder.

If the remainder is 1, then the original number is odd.

If the remainder is 0, then the original number is even.

0 is even.

[doodle777_98]

o is even, it is neither psoitive or negative.

[eldad9]

It's not odd, it's even, it's zero, so neither positive nor negative, and that's all that needs to be said before this thread is locked, thank you very much.

[zionoverfire]

0 isn't a number.

[eldad9]

Wait, are you talking about this zero?

http://mmxz.zophar.net/megamanxz/characters/zero.gif

[Rich]

.99999.... does not equal 1. I don't believe it.

[Kayden]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

[vherub]

Depends:

say if 0 is the number of useful posts you've made, that's negative

and if 0 is the number of times you've hoarded games at a clearance sale, that's positive

[Kayden]

Wait, are you talking about this zero?

http://mmxz.zophar.net/megamanxz/characters/zero.gif=BADASS! :lol:

[Morrigan Lover]

Zero is an even number. An integer n is called *even* if there exists
an integer m such that n = 2m, and *odd* if n+1 is even. From this,
it is clear that 0 = (2)(0) is even. The reason for this definition
is so that we have the property that every integer is either even or
odd.

Damn, how many of the previous posters have finished 8th grade?

[orangemage]

0 isn't a number.

yes it is :lol:

[zionoverfire]

Depends:

say if 0 is the number of useful posts you've made, that's negative

and if 0 is the number of times you've hoarded games at a clearance sale, that's positive

:rofl:

[eldad9]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

[Kayden]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

Since when has internet conversation been bound by fact and research? :lol:

I want self-righteous, obnoxious, uninformed, opionated replies!

[Mr.Answer]

SCHOOL HOUSE ROCK: MY HERO ZERO



Animation:
Phil Kimmelman and Associates

Schoolhouse Rock! (Special Edition) Zero?

Yeah, Zero is a wonderful thing.
In fact, Zero is my hero!

How can Zero be a hero?

Well, there are all kinds of heroes, you know.
A man can get to be a hero
For a famous battle he fought...
Or by studying very hard
And becoming a weightless astronaut.

And then there are heroes of other sorts,
Like the heroes we know from watching sports.
But a hero doesn't have to be a grown up person, you know,
A hero can be a very big dog
Who comes to your rescue,
Or a very little boy who's smart enough to know what to do.

But let me tell you about my favorite hero.

My hero, Zero, such a funny little hero,
But till you came along,
We counted on our fingers and toes.
Now you're here to stay
And nobody really knows
How wonderful you are.
Why we could never reach a star,
Without you, Zero, my hero,
How wonderful you are.

What's so wonderful about a zero?
It's nothing, isn't it?

Sure, it represents nothing alone.

But place a zero after 1
And you've got yourself a 10.
See how important that is?
When you run out of digits,
You can start all over again.
See how convenient that is?

That's why with only ten digits including zero,
You can count as high as you could ever go...
Forever, towards infinity,
No one ever gets there, but you could try.

With 10 billion zeros,
From the cavemen till the heroes,
Who invented you,
They counted on their fingers and toes
And maybe some sticks and stones, or rocks and bones
And their neighbors' toes.
You're here,
And nobody really knows
How wonderful you are.
Why we could never reach the star,
Without you, Zero, my hero,
Zero, how wonderful you are.

Place one zero after any number
And you've multiplied that number by 10.
See how easy that is.
Place two zeros after any number
And you've multiplied that number by 100.
See how simple that is.
Place three zeros after any number,
And you've multiplied that number by 1,000.

Et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad astra, forever and ever,
With zero, my hero, how wonderful you are. http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/images/shrDVD.gifhttp://www.schoolhouserock.tv/images/shrDVD.gif

[eldad9]

Ask about something that people either can't understand or won't understand - you know, abortions, gay marriage, religion, or a retarded "classic" like

Three people check into a hotel. They pay $30 to the manager and go
to their room. The manager finds out that the room rate is $25 and
gives $5 to the bellboy to return. On the way to the room the bellboy
reasons that $5 would be difficult to share among three people so
he pockets $2 and gives $1 to each person.

Now each person paid $10 and got back $1. So they paid $9 each,
totalling $27. The bellboy has $2, totalling $29.

Where is the remaining dollar?


or even


There are three English words ending in "-gry". Two are "angry" and "hungry". What is the third one?

[Rich]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

We already had this discussion, but I haven't been converted to the .999... = 1 yet, even after now taking Calculus.

[eldad9]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

We already had this discussion, but I haven't been converted to the .999... = 1 yet, even after now taking Calculus.

Remind me again, how much is 2 - .999.....?

[Zenithian Legend]

Take any number divided by two, and then look at the remainder.

If the remainder is 1, then the original number is odd.

If the remainder is 0, then the original number is even.

0 is even.

Yoooooooooooou CANNOT divide a number by zero, or divide zero by another number.

[Graff^]

Ask about something that people either can't understand or won't understand - you know, abortions, gay marriage, religion, or a retarded "classic" like

or even


There are three English words ending in "-gry". Two are "angry" and "hungry". What is the third one?


The answer is "language". :cool:

[Tromack]

.999999...= 1

I can prove it for you if you want. I don't have the time now, as I have to get to class. However, there are a lot of proofs on the internet, so just google it.

[javeryh]

Three people check into a hotel. They pay $30 to the manager and go
to their room. The manager finds out that the room rate is $25 and
gives $5 to the bellboy to return. On the way to the room the bellboy
reasons that $5 would be difficult to share among three people so
he pockets $2 and gives $1 to each person.

Now each person paid $10 and got back $1. So they paid $9 each,
totalling $27. The bellboy has $2, totalling $29.

Where is the remaining dollar?


I don't get it. That's not even real math. Shouldn't the money the bellboy have be subtracted from the $27 to make sense? $2 in his pocket + $3 he gave back = $5 difference. They paid $30 when it should have been $25.... a $5 difference... am I missing something?

[Kayden]

Take any number divided by two, and then look at the remainder.

If the remainder is 1, then the original number is odd.

If the remainder is 0, then the original number is even.

0 is even.

Yoooooooooooou CANNOT divide a number by zero, or divide zero by another number.

Half true

X/0=ERROR
0/X=0

[Morrigan Lover]

Three people check into a hotel. They pay $30 to the manager and go
to their room. The manager finds out that the room rate is $25 and
gives $5 to the bellboy to return. On the way to the room the bellboy
reasons that $5 would be difficult to share among three people so
he pockets $2 and gives $1 to each person.

Now each person paid $10 and got back $1. So they paid $9 each,
totalling $27. The bellboy has $2, totalling $29.

Where is the remaining dollar?

sum of money payed = sum of money received

9 x 3 = 25 + 2

[Tromack]

Take any number divided by two, and then look at the remainder.

If the remainder is 1, then the original number is odd.

If the remainder is 0, then the original number is even.

0 is even.

Yoooooooooooou CANNOT divide a number by zero, or divide zero by another number.

Hate to break it to you, but you indeed can divide 0 by another number. You are correct about being unable to divide by 0. Any of those stupid 1 = 0 proofs use dividing by 0.

Again. I'm sorry but you are most certainly wrong.

[Rich]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

We already had this discussion, but I haven't been converted to the .999... = 1 yet, even after now taking Calculus.

Remind me again, how much is 2 - .999.....?

1.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and them some 1
And infinitely small amount more than 1
:D

[Morrigan Lover]

Hate to break it to you, but you indeed can divide 0 by another number. You are correct about being unable to divide by 0. Any of those stupid 1 = 0 proofs use dividing by 0.

Again. I'm sorry but you are most certainly wrong.

1. These "1 = 0 proofs" you speak of are not valid mathematical proofs.

2. http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.divideby0.html

it looks like Tromack is the one who is "most certainly wrong."

[greendj27]

0 is none of the above its clearly a letter of the alphabet.

[Kayden]

0 is none of the above its clearly a letter of the alphabet.

#-o :notworth: :rofl:

[eldad9]

Damnit... :mad: you aren't arguing....


:twisted:

Um, there's nothing to argue about.

That .9999 vs. 1 needs some mathematical background to understand, which some people here were too young or too stupid to have. This is just a matter of definitions, so just looking them up will give you the correct answer.

We already had this discussion, but I haven't been converted to the .999... = 1 yet, even after now taking Calculus.

Remind me again, how much is 2 - .999.....?

1.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and them some 1
And infinitely small amount more than 1
:D

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

[eldad9]

There are three English words ending in "-gry". Two are "angry" and "hungry". What is the third one?


The answer is "language". :cool:

To check all the unfortunate incarnations of this "riddle",

http://www.fun-with-words.com/word_gry_angry_hungry.html

[Rich]

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

The infinite decimal place :wink:

[eldad9]

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

The infinite decimal place :wink:

Sorry, there's no such thing.

[Zenithian Legend]

I need to have a serious talk with a math professor or two... :-k

[minos1067]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

[eldad9]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

[minos1067]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

:!: still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.

[Kayden]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

:!: still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.


Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.

[Rich]

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

The infinite decimal place :wink:

Sorry, there's no such thing.

But there is. It's infinitely far away from the decimal, but it never actually touches 1 (assuming it's graphed) Am I wrong in assuming that there will always be an infinitely small space between the graph and x=1? Am I wrong in thinking that a limit is " infinitely approaching, but never actually touching, x" ?

I can't help but think the question is more philosophical than mathematical and therefore leads to differing opinions.

[Graff^]

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

The infinite decimal place :wink:

Sorry, there's no such thing.

But there is. It's infinitely far away from the decimal, but it never actually touches 1 (assuming it's graphed) Am I wrong in assuming that there will always be an infinitely small space between the graph and x=1? Am I wrong in thinking that a limit is " infinitely approaching, but never actually touching, x" ?

I can't help but think the question is more philosophical than mathematical and therefore leads to differing opinions.

I think that this thing that you're floundering so hard to grasp is the limit as t approaches 1 from the right. Which is true, but... that's also equal to 1, in terms of mathematics. Sorry, but it really won't make any sense until you reach higher calculus, but .999bar really is equal to 1.

[Rich]

So there's a 1 somewhere after all these zeroes? Great. At which decimal place?

The infinite decimal place :wink:

Sorry, there's no such thing.

But there is. It's infinitely far away from the decimal, but it never actually touches 1 (assuming it's graphed) Am I wrong in assuming that there will always be an infinitely small space between the graph and x=1? Am I wrong in thinking that a limit is " infinitely approaching, but never actually touching, x" ?

I can't help but think the question is more philosophical than mathematical and therefore leads to differing opinions.

I think that this thing that you're floundering so hard to grasp is the limit as t approaches 1 from the right. Which is true, but... that's also equal to 1, in terms of mathematics. Sorry, but it really won't make any sense until you reach higher calculus, but .999bar really is equal to 1.

I'm aware that in terms of math, it equals 1. But nothing is definite. (no pun intended. :p)

I still cling to the fact that there is always an infinitely small cushion between it. According to .999... = 1, an infinitely small amount will eventually disappear, which I just can't bring my self to agree with. I suppose the laws of the universe have corrupted me with the whole something can't turn into nothing thing. :oops:

[Rich]

Here; this is what I can't accept despite it being, mathematically, true.

http://quack-quack.net/calc.png

[Graff^]

There IS an infinitely small space, but it's so small that it may as well not be there at all. That's actually an understatement, it's more like it's so small that it ISN'T there at all. It's rather irritating and causes all sorts of headaches, but it's mathematically true.

[Rich]

There IS an infinitely small space, but it's so small that it may as well not be there at all. That's actually an understatement, it's more like it's so small that it ISN'T there at all. It's rather irritating and causes all sorts of headaches, but it's mathematically true.

I've already agreed it's mathematically true (as I posted the example last post) but I can't accept the mathematical proof. No matter how infinitely small, it does exist and to say something just turned into nothing would make me cry. :lol:

[Graff^]

There IS an infinitely small space, but it's so small that it may as well not be there at all. That's actually an understatement, it's more like it's so small that it ISN'T there at all. It's rather irritating and causes all sorts of headaches, but it's mathematically true.

I've already agreed it's mathematically true (as I posted the example last post) but I can't accept the mathematical proof. No matter how infinitely small, it does exist and to say something just turned into nothing would make me cry. :lol:

That makes no sense... The mathematical proof proves true, hence its being called a proof... Yeah, it's annoying as hell, but you just have to accept it. And then convert others who refuse to believe! :twisted:

[Rich]

There IS an infinitely small space, but it's so small that it may as well not be there at all. That's actually an understatement, it's more like it's so small that it ISN'T there at all. It's rather irritating and causes all sorts of headaches, but it's mathematically true.

I've already agreed it's mathematically true (as I posted the example last post) but I can't accept the mathematical proof. No matter how infinitely small, it does exist and to say something just turned into nothing would make me cry. :lol:

That makes no sense... The mathematical proof proves true, hence its being called a proof... Yeah, it's annoying as hell, but you just have to accept it. And then convert others who refuse to believe! :twisted:

I'LL CRY!
CRY, I SAY, CRY!

[evilmax17]

Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.

[Rich]

Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.


An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.

:wink:

[Kayden]

Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.


An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.

:wink:
*head explodes*

[Rich]

Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.


An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.

:wink:
*head explodes*

:lol: For example of that; I was just talking to a friend about the .99bar = 1 thing:

Him-- i agree it's as close to any number will ever be to being 1... however it never actually hits 1. when you consider 1 to be the whole universe, the difference between .9bar and 1 is about the size of a quark (the subatomic particle). so you can call it 1 if you want, i won't lose sleep over it or anything.

Me --
The whole universe is infinitely large, so the space between the two is also infinitely large, though much smaller than the universe. How can something infinitely large be smaller than something infinitely large. The material concept of infinity will always lead to contradictions.


PS--He wasn't responding to me--I agree with him that .99bar != 1. At best, .99bar ~ 1

[SadieDee]

OMG, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be debating mathematical issues.

If you take the finance point of view, in the end everything will be rounded to within 2 decimal places when money exchanges hands (from a bank to a person, it'll have to be rounded to the penny).

or...if you take the chemistry side with "significant figures", 5 * 5 = 20. Yeppers, I didn't do well in chemistry.

[Nirvanaguy777]

.......fuck math.

[Rich]

Math is the most interesting thing you should be pondering, but aren't. ;)

[Kayden]

I did it, I got you to argue :twisted:

...errr .....*ahem*

[Derwood43]

Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.


Then please show me the number(s) where 0.99bar switches and equals 1. IF these two terms were equal, there would be no need for one of them. We would simply count in whole numbers.

[Tromack]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

[dustyeff]

I should be punched for this, but I'll say it anyways.

I miss Calculus.

I took Calc II my first semester in college but then switched to accounting, so it's different math... no fun integrals or differentials or double integrals or stuff like that :( I art sad.

[Rich]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...9 1/10 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :) And then we come up with that problem again: How can something infinitely close to 1 be closer than something else infinitely close to 1. (the .99...9 vs the .99...9 1/10)

Oh fuck that. I can't put it into words. I'm not sure what that 1/10 would in fact be.

[Tromack]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

[Rich]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.

Bah. I'm rambling and not even making sense now. I've got all this shit in my head but I can't put it to works.

Regardless, I believe that no matter how infinity small a number gets and how many 9s you put after .999, you can always add one more which will make it still not equal to 1, but .00infinity1 away. The whole problem is whether or not .00infinity1 can exist because the 1 will never be reached, but ehhh, i hope you get the idea.

[Tromack]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.

I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.

Edit- On second thought you make absolutely no sense. You contradict yourself. You speak of something infinitely long but having an end. You are just horribly incorrect.

[Rich]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.

I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.

I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.

[Tromack]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.

I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.

I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.

So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.

[Rich]

Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.


Let x = .999...

so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9

thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1

I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)

As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.

Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).

We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background) (http://sig.mavenworld.com/solution.gif)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.

Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy. :)

There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.

And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).

I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.

I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.

I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.

So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.

In accordance to mathematical standards, yes. But I don't agree with them. I agree there is a space no matter how small between the graph and the x=1. It is infinitely small, but it is present. As the limit states, it approaches, but does not hit, 1.

[lionheart4life]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

:!: still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.


Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.

Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.

[Rich]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

:!: still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.


Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.

Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.

Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3. :)

[lionheart4life]

0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.

all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.

am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.

That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).

:!: still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.


Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.

Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.

Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3. :)

Please don't kill this deal for other people! JK, I know its not for real, just bringing some joke math into the topic.

[Rich]

One problem I find with infinity is that time is never a factor though it should be.

1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?

Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?

[Rich]

Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.

Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.


Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.

[Graff^]

Speaking of Pi, here's an interesting thought: Since Pi has an infinite number of non-repeating digits, it therefore has, at some point inside of it, every sequence of numbers imaginable. This means that somewhere in Pi there is a series of numbers that if you were to run it through a video codec it would output you having nasty hot sex with your best male friend.

[Reality's Fringe]

Which is why I always declared Pi to be evil, but none of those damn eggheads would listen. When will they learn?!

[hiccupleftovers]

Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.

Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.


Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.

Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.

[Tromack]

One problem I find with infinity is that time is never a factor though it should be.

1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?

Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?

Ok, let's start at the beginning. You can't think of infinity as a number. You can talk about the limit of something as it approaches infinity but that is it. As per your
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1. That is not necessarily true. I mean if you are talking about
limit as x->infinity of 1/x * x, then yes that equals 1. However if you mean two different functions that apporoach infinity then you can't just assume it will equal 1. If you mean something like limit as x-> infinity of (x+100)/x, then yes that equals 1 too. Because if you think about it, 100 is negligible compared to something hideously large.
It is actually an important thing in Computer Science also. Because a constant or linear factor is negligible in the long run and only a difference in the type of function makes a serious difference.

I hope that answers some questions.

Edit- Actually I talk back my first statement. You actually can talk about infinity as a number, but not in any traditional sense. Mostly it is used to talk about the size of sets, mostly the Natural numbers (0 or any other natural number + 1) and the real numbers.

The natural numbers have size of Aleph Nought. The Real Numbers have size of 2^(Aleph Nought)

[Rich]

Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.

Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.


Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.

Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.

Search for Brian Holt infinity.