I need clarification on something (If you're easily offended, DO NOT enter this)

[Scorch]

I'm going to start this and i'm not going to reply, I don't want involved in this drama.

A friend from my childhood years that moved away is doing something that's really bothering me. I'm not Jewish, but I don't see how his idea makes any sense whatsoever. I really, really want flame-free feedback on this, because it's bothering me.. maybe i'm misunderstanding his cause, maybe i'm not, but I just need to know what to think. I think my comments were well justified in the chat, but I don't know whether to be angry at him or not. Please don't lock this threads, and mods, if any posters flame, delete it. I want a normal discussion with justifiable points.

Please keep this flame free. As I said, I am not going to reply to this thread. This is just bothering me and I want to know whether I was right in getting angry with my friend.

Again, this is a touchy topic. If you're easily offended, please do not reply.

x xscorch2kxx wants to directly connect.
Shadowman9094 is now directly connected.
Shadowman9094: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/scorch/1.jpg
x xscorch2kxx: ?
Shadowman9094: For the Cause.
Shadowman9094: I'm running a campaign at my school.
x xscorch2kxx: that will get you in deep shit
Shadowman9094: Students must join my army, or die.
Shadowman9094: Haha, I know.
Shadowman9094: I've also been doing the Hitler march all week.
Shadowman9094: But not because I hate jews.
Shadowman9094: But because I like to piss off Jews.
x xscorch2kxx: you're going to hell
Shadowman9094: Perhaps.
x xscorch2kxx: you're making a mockery of things my grandfather fought for in the war
Shadowman9094: Not true at all.
x xscorch2kxx: you are
x xscorch2kxx: you're doing it to piss off jewish people
Shadowman9094: I respect WWII veterans and what they went through so much, you wouldn't even believe it.
x xscorch2kxx: by making a mockery of thousands of innocent people dying
Shadowman9094: I have a library of WWII novels and books, because I care.
Shadowman9094: And I'm trying to show these stupid, stuck-up kids at school that they treat their freedom like nothing.
Shadowman9094: So don't say I'm mocking anything.
x xscorch2kxx: and pissing off Jewish people is going to show them that how?
Shadowman9094: *sigh*
Shadowman9094: Because the kids at my school, not just Jewish, are the most idiotic deadnuts I've ever met.
Shadowman9094: So I've made an army of about five kids.
Shadowman9094: Everybody will be killed unless they get smart.
x xscorch2kxx: ..and by making a mockery of nazis, you're going to educate them?
Shadowman9094: The Jewish kids just get especially mad because my cheif of staff decided to implement the Nazi march.
x xscorch2kxx: gee, you think?
Shadowman9094: I know.
Shadowman9094: Look, I know I sound really stupid.
Shadowman9094: But I'm not doing it for shock value.
x xscorch2kxx: Yeah, you do.
Shadowman9094: Ya know what?
x xscorch2kxx: That's the same thing as running around in a black sheet and harassing black people
Shadowman9094: I don't see the connection.
Shadowman9094: Explain, please.
x xscorch2kxx: People in white killed innocent black people
x xscorch2kxx: People in the Nazi group killed innocent Jewish people
Shadowman9094: Yes... I see that part....
x xscorch2kxx: race vs. race, "religion" vs. religion
x xscorch2kxx: so tell me what good your nazi march is doing
Shadowman9094: Hm.
Shadowman9094: Ok, you have a point.
Shadowman9094: In fact, you have a great point.
Shadowman9094: So I'll cut the march.
x xscorch2kxx: you are not only making a mockery of the entire war, you're joining the rank of the stupid people
Shadowman9094: Thanks.
x xscorch2kxx: You're not stupid
x xscorch2kxx: But you can act that way
x xscorch2kxx: by doing the march
Shadowman9094: Haha, now I remember what started this idea.
Shadowman9094: I was sitting on my bed.
Shadowman9094: And I said to myself.
Shadowman9094: Let's see how many morons I can piss off.
Shadowman9094: It just grew from there.


At this point, I just got so physically sick that I signed off. Was I wrong in being so pissed off at him?

[Socheata]

I would've been pissed too..considering that I'm not religious, nor am I easily offended by anything. But what he plans to do is sure to get him a beatdown.

[Rig]

Yeah, the link doesn't work, and it was a little difficult to understand the situation, but I don't think you were out of line.

[zionoverfire]

The image link doesn't work, I think it might help explain your chat a bit better.

[WeaponX2099]

Was I wrong in being so pissed off at him?

No.

[FriskyTanuki]

That's got to be one of the stupidest ways to piss people off that I've ever heard. I think you're right for being pissed off especially because of his explanation for how he came up with the idea.

[thagoat]

no. i wouldnt have been pissed. i dont let stupid ass morons piss me off.

[theq87]

Go Scorch.

One of my major pet peeves is people who arrogantly assume they must take action against the "stupid people" of the world. And you're right, by needlessly invoking nazi/soviet imagery and talking about doing a nazi march, he's being...stupid, just really, really stupid.

And furthermore, the very definition of the word "average" means that whoever you are, you're probably near it. So it's best not to go and generalize an entire group as the "stupid people". Especially in a school, for God's sake. Argh.

Oh well, it's not like it really matters, since no school I know of would put up with any shit like that.

[zionoverfire]

It really makes me sad that whenever people in this country mention Hitler, the 3rd Reich or the Nazi's it all seems to boil down to the concentration camps and the Jews. That was not the only thing wrong with Germany at the time nor was hate the sole cause of the Nazi raise to power, yet the American people have been so bombarded by this concept that it's hard to have a conversation about anything else. I liken it to the Civil war, ask anyone what the Civil war was about and they say the end of slavery; well the emancipation proclamation was not created until well into the war.

It is a bit sad to see that your friend is doing this to piss people off, you think he would at least be creative. I mean really if you want to offend someone pulling out some old Nazi gestures or slogan has been done far too often to be even remotely original. I simply find it interesting that the Nazi March style which is not directly related to the concentration camps pisses you off so much.

[Zenithian Legend]

Random... but you should edit your friends screen name, like cut off the #s (which is what I usually do if posting an AIM convo) so no one gives him any unwanted messages.

[mmercer131]

You're not wrong for being mad at him, but it sounds like he wants you to be mad at him. Does that make sense??

[Zenithian Legend]

Heh, he pissed you off it would seem...

... as for me, I tend to encourage this behavior, it usually results in something for me to laugh at, but I'm not in high school, or even a college dorm anymore for that matter... so I don't get to see the effects on the masses.

[Scorch]

I have to break my promise of not to reply to answer questions.

I simply find it interesting that the Nazi March style which is not directly related to the concentration camps pisses you off so much.

Chalk it up to ignorance on my part, then. What was wrong with Germany aisde from nazi-ism at the time? And why would I NOT be pissed off at the march? How could he use it in another way?

Random... but you should edit your friends screen name, like cut off the #s (which is what I usually do if posting an AIM convo) so no one gives him any unwanted messages.

That's a fake screenname I put. I registered it earlier to make sure no random person would get an IM. Some people probably know the original guy, I think he's posted here quite a few times, so I put in a fake name.

You're not wrong for being mad at him, but it sounds like he wants you to be mad at him. Does that make sense??

It makes sense, yeah, but why would he want to do that?

[mmercer131]

Simply put, he sounds bored. I had a friend who used to do the same thing when we were younger. No other reason other than boredom. People like that get a kick out of seeing people get pissed off. He probably doesn't even mean most of what he says, he just wants a reaction. He is extreme though.

[magforce x]

Is anyone even bothered by the fact that this moron states that students "should join my army or die" and "everyone will be killed unless they get smart"? I hate to place responsibility on you Scorch but don't you think this needs to be reported? Man, if anyone I knew said that, I don't think I could just ignore it. There are too many unstable people in this world. Unfortunately, as we've seen before, statements like that often become a reality.

[chosen1s]

I have to break my promise of not to reply to answer questions.

I simply find it interesting that the Nazi March style which is not directly related to the concentration camps pisses you off so much.

Chalk it up to ignorance on my part, then. What was wrong with Germany aisde from nazi-ism at the time? And why would I NOT be pissed off at the march? How could he use it in another way?

The Nazi March is indicative of the Nazi's themselves. You know, the swastica was around before the Nazi's hijacked it as well. But you can't go trying to change the entire world's association of that symbol with the Nazi's just because you want it to be so.

Good for you. The world needs more people who will stand up for what is right. If your friend is doing something wrong, who cares what others think? You stood up for what was right and I say good for you. One thing I am sick of in this country is seeing people back down because they're too interested in being "polite" rather than sticking up for what is right.

Any admiration for the Nazi's is wrong and shows a misunderstanding of the brutality of those people. Regardless of who you are, imagine being naked in a camp where they work you relentlessly until your body gives out, refuse to feed you, and then throw you in an incinerator or a gas chamber when your usefulness is spent? How funny would it be when you're standing in that oven with the other 10 people around you, knowing you have a matter of minutes before you are either burned to death or poisoned? I say you went easy on your "friend".

[mmercer131]

Yeah, the threatening tone is disturbing. Scorch is the only one who can judge the tone though, it being his friend.

[chosen1s]

Is anyone even bothered by the fact that this moron states that students "should join my army or die" and "everyone will be killed unless they get smart"? I hate to place responsibility on you Scorch but don't you think this needs to be reported? Man, if anyone I knew said that, I don't think I could just ignore it. There are too many unstable people in this world. Unfortunately, as we've seen before, statements like that often become a reality.

I have to agree. I thought the same thing when I was reading it.

[magforce x]

It really makes me sad that whenever people in this country mention Hitler, the 3rd Reich or the Nazi's it all seems to boil down to the concentration camps and the Jews. That was not the only thing wrong with Germany at the time nor was hate the sole cause of the Nazi raise to power, yet the American people have been so bombarded by this concept that it's hard to have a conversation about anything else. I liken it to the Civil war, ask anyone what the Civil war was about and they say the end of slavery; well the emancipation proclamation was not created until well into the war.

It is a bit sad to see that your friend is doing this to piss people off, you think he would at least be creative. I mean really if you want to offend someone pulling out some old Nazi gestures or slogan has been done far too often to be even remotely original. I simply find it interesting that the Nazi March style which is not directly related to the concentration camps pisses you off so much.
__________________________________________________ ___________

WTF?
Are you kidding me? Why do you think that whenever people mention Hitler it boils doen to the concentration camps? How about 6 million people dead? It may not play a sole role in their rise to power but it makes a pretty strong statement about the result of their rise to power.

Why would the Nazi march not piss people off? It's not directly related to the concentration camps but it's representative of a regime that killed and tortured millions of people. Get a clue.

[Scorch]

He did say he was making posters.. if I know him like I think I know him, he's relatively harmless.. I don't want to get in the middle of drama.. I guarentee no one would be physically harmed.. only emotionally by his stupidity..

The Nazi March is indicative of the Nazi's themselves. You know, the swastica was around before the Nazi's hijacked it as well. But you can't go trying to change the entire world's association of that symbol with the Nazi's just because you want it to be so.

Actually, the symbol that you're referring to was used by Indians. It was not the EXACT same symbol.. same shape, however. It was called the "Wheel of Life". The swastika is tipped on the side. The Wheel of Life was not on a slant.. there is a distinct difference.

Indian Symbol: http://www.idanda.net/images/talent/Nic_Fecteau/tt/swastika.gif

Nazi Symbol:
http://www.heretical.com/British/swastika.gif

So, in using it as he did (tilted to the side), he is specifically referencing the Nazis.

[LV-426RS]

He did say he was making posters.. if I know him like I think I know him, he's relatively harmless.. I don't want to get in the middle of drama.. I guarentee no one would be physically harmed.. only emotionally by his stupidity..

Everytime you read something in the paper it's always, "who would have thought he could do something like this?" "He was so polite and quite!"

Case in point, the BTK killer.

[zionoverfire]

Germany was in heavy debt, their currency went to hell because France and Britain had forced Germany to pay off all their war debts. It created a situation where the mark was worthless. Basically Germany entered a period of chaos where new leadership was necessary, from this the Nazi party gained leadership in a split election. After gaining power the Nazi party managed to put Germany back on the road to prosperity for a time. The raise of the Nazi party was not due to hatred for the Jewish people it was due to a power void created by the British and French governments.

As far as the march goes it has nothing to do with the concentration camps, if we were to condemn everything that came out of Germany during that period it would include the jet engine and quite a bit of the research and researchers who helped up build the atomic bomb. I think if you are going to be pissed at your friend it should be over the use of Nazi slogans and ant Jewish sentiment rather than a march.

[zionoverfire]

WTF?
Are you kidding me? Why do you think that whenever people mention Hitler it boils doen to the concentration camps? How about 6 million people dead? It may not play a sole role in their rise to power but it makes a pretty strong statement about the result of their rise to power.
It is a very strong statement about their power, so strong in fact that people allow themselves to be blinded to how they got this power in the first place. People seem to fixate on it and tend to ignore the role of nationalism in all of this.


Why would the Nazi march not piss people off? It's not directly related to the concentration camps but it's representative of a regime that killed and tortured millions of people. Get a clue.

So everything Nazi related pisses you off then? Including the jet engine, nuclear weapons. How about the swastika? It's been used for thousands of years before the Nazi's ever existed but people are won't use the thing any more people everyone will confuse it with Nazi sentiment.

[zionoverfire]

deleted

[magforce x]

So everything Nazi related pisses you off then? Including the jet engine, nuclear weapons. How about the swastika? It's been used for thousands of years before the Nazi's ever existed but people are won't use the thing any more people everyone will confuse it with Nazi sentiment.[/quote]
__________________________________________________ ________

Jet engines and nuclear weapons were not just developed bu Nazis. As you know, the Germans scientists that developed nuclear weapons were not actually Nazis and many actually emmigrated out of Germany (i.e. much of the reasearch was actually done in the U.S. by the German scientists). Specific characteristics attributed to that regime, such as the march, however, are representative of a brutal regime, though, and therefore are not appropriate actions by any person with any sort of decency. But if you fell it's OK, go for it.

[zionoverfire]

Jet engines and nuclear weapons were not just developed bu Nazis. As you know, the Germans scientists that developed nuclear weapons were not actually Nazis and many actually emmigrated out of Germany (i.e. much of the reasearch was actually done in the U.S. by the German scientists). Specific characteristics attributed to that regime, such as the march, however, are representative of a brutal regime, though, and therefore are not appropriate actions by any person with any sort of decency. But if you fell it's OK, go for it.

It really comes down to your definition of a Nazi doesn't it? I figured for simplistic reasons that I would call everyone who worked for or supported the Nazi German government a Nazi. Oh Nazis were only specific officers and party members but other people worked at the concentration camps, other people fought for them in the war, other people helped create their machines of war, both in development and production and other people supported them. Just as the Nazi party as a head was needed so was the help of all these other people to make the machine run. Just because the researchers felt the country afterward doesn't make them at any less fault . You are looking at the same group of people who created the jet engine and also a 20 foot tall speaker designed with the intent to kill those in concentration camps. I find it very odd that you find a march to be representative of the regime but the scientists who created the weapons of terror not to be.

[Dunvane]

I find, more than anything, how generalized everyone's thinking is to be amazing.

I won't go into a history lesson for anyone, or spit this fact against this fact, but I will say this. You say Nazi with the thought and intent of hate yourself, because of what you've known them to do and lose. But Americans are not without their own crimes of guilt, nor is any nation in the world.

Yes, what they did was horrible. But believe it or not, every person who was a member of the "Nazi's" as they all tend to be deemed was a person, thinking flesh and blood just as you and I are. Just as those innocents they killed were.

To so blindly hate a people for their hatred is no better, you're only completing the circle. None of you were there, you cannot possibly know or ever understand the tragedy as a real thing, only something of books and films... mediums in which we also enjoy (or speak against) forms of fiction. I think our views are, to say the least, a little skewed.

Be careful what words you throw around, they can and very clearly will come back around to clamp firmly on your ass.

[help1]

Schorch, your not wrong at being upset... to me it seems that he is still planning it and he lied to you just to get him off your back.

[help1]

Scorch, your not wrong at being upset... to me it seems that he is still planning it and he lied to you just to get him off your back.

[magforce x]

Understand before u speak. Nobody is hating "a people". I actually know Germans who fought for tha Nazi regime (relatives of a girlfriend)and my father (not me)knew some of the German researchers of the A-bomb. I respect, not hate these people. It's what the regime evolved into that I despise, despite the "good" that came out of that empire. I'm bewildered by the umbrella of protection some you have given this regime under the guise of "they also did good things" and "America is not w/o their own crime". Yes, I dare you to find any group of people who have a perfect record of nonviolence and morality. But I also understand extreme actions of terror and brutality that some of you seem incapable of differentiating from other "guiltless" societies.

This is a different topic for a different day....we'll just disagree

[Acrylic]

I don't know what your friend was thinking. It is a known fact that Hitler was against communism, so I don't know what the communist symbol has to do with anything.

Maybe I'm not understanding his view clearly?


Anyways, I got one of those type of kids at school. He's not a nazi/neonazi, or racist of any kind, but he loves history, and takes sides in the past with the Axis powers. It's hard to believe that he's not racist or anything, but I dunno. The way people's mind's work sometimes, are kinda different.

[Reality's Fringe]

Dear God,
Please smite all dumbasses who connect The sickle and hammer with the NAZIs. The Facists hated the communists.
Thank you,
RF.

[Mr. Anderson]

Dear God,
Please smite all dumbasses who connect The sickle and hammer with the NAZIs. The Facists hated the communists.
Thank you,
RF.

I'm glad someone finally caught this.

[2poor]

actually there the symbol was used by the buddists too before hitler stole it. it means peace and i think its the mirrored image of the swastika

[Quillion]

By getting mad at someone goose-stepping down the hall, because of the history it invokes, you're simply giving that person power over you.

Symbols like the swastika, hammer and sickle; words such as Kike, or $$$$er, don't have any power if you don't allow them to.

[jennie25]

no, you are justified in being upset.

"Shadowman9094: *sigh*
Shadowman9094: Because the kids at my school, not just Jewish, are the most idiotic deadnuts I've ever met.
Shadowman9094: So I've made an army of about five kids.
Shadowman9094: Everybody will be killed unless they get smart. "

but for real, can we all say columbine?

Also, I work in a restraunt and I really hate people, they are soooooo fruggin stupid. I can't take it sometimes, I wanna just punch thier heads in. but I don't, I just punch a wall and go back to being me (that probally doesn't make sense).

[Cracka]

i wish the swastika wasnt seen as a representation of the Nazi's to everyoen today b/c i think it looks cool but i cant use that symbol because its nazified.

but i think your friend is a dumbass.

[AdultLink]

Sounds just like something the Nazi's (Or rather Hitler) would do before they started taking over Europe... :roll:

[epobirs]

Some people just can't get through life without getting a serious beating at least once. This person sounds like one of them. You would be doing him a favor by paying a professional to beat the living shit out of him without any lasting injuries before he he gets it done for free in a way that will follow him around for the rest of his life.

[eldad9]

Shadowman9094: Haha, now I remember what started this idea.
Shadowman9094: I was sitting on my bed.
Shadowman9094: And I said to myself.
Shadowman9094: Let's see how many morons I can piss off.
Shadowman9094: It just grew from there.


A smart person would ask how to make life better for himself.
A kind person would ask how to make life better for others.
This person is neither, asking how to make other people's lives worse without any benefit to himself. That is pure evil.

[evilmax17]

Yes you are right to be angry with your friend.

People who say things like "I can't wait to see how many morons I can piss off" are, in actuality, morons themselves. The people they "piss off" are regular people. Gothic kids get their kicks in a similar manner.

Your friend is obviously wrong at roughly 3,000 different levels. But at the most basic one, I can give you some advice. Your friend is just a general idiot. You shouldn't belittle yourself to hang out with somebody so unintelligent.

[onetrackmind]

You have ever right to be pissed off... as it sounds this kid has a lot of growing up to do and is completely unaware of the outcome that these actions are gonna produce.