Got my 1st chargeback, updated

[YoshiFan1]

Well this sucks, I get an e-mail from Paypal saying that they regret to inform me that fradulaent funds were used in the transcation and they want all this information.

Luckily the address was confirmed and I used delivery confirmation (the game was not delievered yet), so I replied with the information they wanted.

Has anyone ever has success with a chargeback, when the address was confirmed and delivery confirmation (or other tracking was used)?

I'm not that upset over it because the whole transaction was under $10 but it's just the thought it could happen with a more expensive item that concerns me.

[j-fever]

Best thing to do, don't accept credit cards with Paypal. Their user policy changes all the time, plus their seller protection is almost total BS. Plus with their high fees...

Use BidPay for credit cards, if you want to accept them.

I hope you get your money back.

[wubb]

The problem with not accepting CCs through PayPal is that people will still try to pay you with credit card (and that eBay puts the CC logos by the PayPal logo on your 'Payment methods' section whether you actually take CCs or not...) And when you decline the payment you're going to have PO'ed buyers and probably some neg feedback. There was a poster on here who had 2 or 3 of his 10 feedback negative from buyers who were pissed he wouldn't take their CC payments (and he did mention clearly in his listings no CCs if I remember right.) I suppose you could decline the payment and ask them to pay with BidPay, but a lot of buyers aren't going to want to do that, plus they won't like the extra fee.

Does Bidpay actually have better protection over PayPal? I'm not familiar with that other than I've seen it on a bunch of eBay listings. I think the buyer pays the fees there, right? (That in itself is going to keep it from competing with PayPal in any real way IMO.)

Anyway, definiltely let us know what happens with that, yoshi. Sucks that PayPal may pass the buck on to you. How the heck are you supposed to protect yourself from someone using fraudulent funds when they aren't even paying you, they're paying PayPal.

[gmzone]

I agree 100% with what Wubb said. As for bidpay, can anyone else here verify they are reputable and better then paypal?

[YoshiFan1]

That's exactly the problem. It should be Paypal's problem if they pay with fradulent funds IF the address is confirmed.

That's what Half.com does, I have had it happen 2 or 3 times on Half.com where Half.com says not to send out the game to the buyer because of fradulent activity but if I already sent out the game, it's fine, just let them know and that's the end of it.

Also, it's not so much about this chargeback in general that concerns me, it's just the fact that it could happen with something a lot worse. I'm not going to worry about losing a few dollars like this, but had I sold something of more value like $100, and I lost that, I would be very upset.

Edit - Buyers have sent me Money Orders through BidPay twice. I never said I accepted it, but since it's a Money Order payment, they just figured it was ok. It was never a problem for me to accept it. I just don't think most buyers like it because it charges the buyer a $3 fee. Plus, it offers buyers no protection (or very little) which is another reason most buyers don't like it

[judyjudyjudy]

Are they definitely taking yours funds? I thought there was some sort of seller protection that could potentially cover you.

[YoshiFan1]

I submitted the info that they wanted (they didn't mention anything about seller protection but I think I should be covered). However, judging by the stores I have read on other sites, I am not so sure I'll get the money back.

[wubb]

PayPal's policy may state something like Seller Protection doesn't apply if the source of money was fraudulent funds. (I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.) Be very good info to see what happens in this case.

And on the note of buyer's paying however they want...

I recently changed my auctions from listing PayPal + Money Order / Cashier Checks as my accepted methods of payment (with a note that I accept Postal Money orders only.)

To PayPal + Other as my accepted payment methods. And a strong note saying USPS Postal MO only, please contact me before bidding if you want to pay another way.

First two buyers who pay with MO (after the change) sent me (You guessed it) something other than a USPS Postal MO. I went ahead and cashed them without complaining, but SHEESH. It's enough to almost make me go PayPal only.

[postaboy]

Happen to me too. Last year, I sold a pair of Jordan XIII on ebay for $120. And Immediately transfer it to the bank account. A month later, (just got back from bomb azz vacation) I went to check my email. I got a paypal chargeback and it say I need some kind of proof that I sent it. I was like WTF. I went to check my paypal account. It say I have $-135.98 paypal balance. I had no proof to back it up because I lost my receipt/tracking # that I sent it. I end up paying up $-135.98.

[gaelan]

Happen to me too. Last year, I sold a pair of Jordan XIII on ebay for $120. And Immediately transfer it to the bank account. A month later, (just got back from bomb azz vacation) I went to check my email. I got a paypal chargeback and it say I need some kind of proof that I sent it. I was like WTF. I went to check my paypal account. It say I have $-135.98 paypal balance. I had no proof to back it up because I lost my receipt/tracking # that I sent it. I end up paying up $-135.98.

couldn't you just have setup a new paypal account and left that balance outstanding?

[postaboy]

couldn't you just have setup a new paypal account and left that balance outstanding?

Well, I did that but it wouldn't let me used the same credit card/bank account on the paypal account before. I even try removing my bank account (wouldn't let me remove since I have a negative balance)/credit card (it removed) and while adding it to my new paypal account, it say that this credit card/bank account is used by paypal member, blah blah. The last resort I did was closing it, but won't let me since I have a negative balance. So I said fuck it, and add everything back like before, and just sold some stuff on ebay to cover my loss. This time I make sure I keep my fucking receipt/tracking # in a safe box if they ask for it.

[DuelLadyS]

My BF had a fun paypal night yesterday... he got online and found about 6 emails, that basically went something to the tune of: your paypal payment was successful x3, your account has been frozen due to suspicous activity, and an email from sone wanting to know why he keeps cancelling his payment. Apparently, someone hacked his account and tried to send away $1600 to a couple people. Luckily, he got on just half an hour after the incident so he got the chargeback ball rolling fast. (He also contacted his bank and made sure no money came out of his accounts- it didn't.) He's closing the account as soon as everything's cleared up. (Oh, and he's out to kill whoever did it, should it turn out to be someone he can get to with his katana.)

[j-fever]

Paypal STILL sucks when it comes to CC payments. It used to be better, but Paypal user agreement is set up so they cannot lose money, no matter what happens. In the end the buyer and/or seller will lose. You will find many resources on-line that outline the problems that Paypal has, accept CC on Paypal at your own risk.

Set-up your auctions, and indicate you accept Paypal only in the body text. Do not use the eBay icon and automated features, as you will encounter many more people who do not how to read.

Bidpay system of charging bidder is better, if you offer other options for payment. Only eBay/Paypal will be making any money, how much is your time worth? less risk too. For example if a buyer buys a game from you and complains that they dont like it (for any reason) = automatic refund. The buyer could send back a box of bricks and the seller will still lose the money.

As a buyer and seller on eBay I have found that non CC Payapl accounts are more work, but for selling, it is well worth it. If the buyer is honest, and really wants the item, then they will find a way to pay for it using the guidelines you set in the auction.

Negative feedback from bidder who complains about not accepting CC, might have not seen some indication of it on the auction. It is very important to put the information, and make it clear to bidders.

Here are a few sites about Paypal:

http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://paypalsucks.com/

Paypal users should read the Paypal agreement very, very carefully. Also rememeber that once Paypal has your personal information, they will ALWAYS have it, even if you close an account.

[ryosnk]

But paypal is still good to pay with funds (not credit card)?

[j-fever]

Mostly.

Basically if the deal is too good looking, it probably is too good.

Beware sellers with 0-10 feedback and asking for money orders only....

[wubb]

j-fever, I agree that PayPal is definitely set up to look out for #1 and not the buyers or sellers.

But I still say that by not accepting full PayPal you are going to have less bidders (in general) which means your auctions will end lower/fewer will sell (in general) which means you will make somewhat less on them even taking into account the PayPal fees and a chargeback every once in a while.

I did a quick look around BidPay's site and it seems equivalent to sending a MO? (That's what yoshi said as well) So in that case I guess the buyer can not do a chargeback. There would be no recourse for a buyer if they get scammed other than a lawsuit, and that is seldom worth pursuing over an eBay auction. Sure it's better for the seller, but again that will translate into less buyer's wanting to use it so in the end is it really better for the seller?

I certainly wouldn't bid on an auction that only accepted BidPay, MO, or nonCC PayPal unless the seller had impeccable feedback. And even then I don't know if I'd pull the trigger. I go through feedback records from time to time and there are plenty of great feedback sellers (98%+) who seem to not be willing to work with a buyer who gets their item damaged in transit, or whatever.

One thing that would be very cool to see is for someone to do a real study of how different payment methods accepted affect the final bid amount. You'd have to sell like 50-100 of the same item ending on the same day of the week at the same time with sellers with the same feedback (basically make everything the same except for the payment method) and see if there are statistically significant differences in the ending bid amount. If anyone knows of something like this that has been done, please link!

[YoshiFan1]

Shockingly, I got this today:

"We have reviewed the transaction in question, along with the information
you have provided, and have determined that the transaction does qualify
for the PayPal Seller Protection Policy. We have cancelled the temporary
hold placed on these funds and they are once again available in your PayPal
account balance."

So I got the money back :)

[judyjudyjudy]

That's so awesome! It's good to know that Paypal follows its own policy sometimes and doesn't automatically screw the seller.

[YoshiFan1]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised but I guess Paypal doesn't always favor in the buyer's favor since that was I had always heard.

[wubb]

Sweet, glad to hear they cover you for fraudulent funds. I wonder what the real story was behind it? Stolen credit card or maybe hacked PayPal account I guess?

[GizmoGC]

Sweet, glad to hear they cover you for fraudulent funds. I wonder what the real story was behind it? Stolen credit card or maybe hacked PayPal account I guess?

Most likley the buyer did it on purpose. Ive seen it happen many times before.