How could anyone vote for George W. Bush?

[ZForce915]

With all of the recent facts proving all of things he's done wrong during this presidency, how can anyone want to re-elect this guy? To heck with re-electing, who is dumb enough to look past all the stupidity and vote for him?

Well I suppose re-elect would indicate he was elected.

Now to make my case for why he shouldn't be re-elected (or elected):

The Patriot Act.

Enough said.

[ex0]

Because rich people get the benefits, thus rich people vote for him. Anyone else is just an idiot.

[CaseyRyback]

my uncle works for Merrill Lynch and even he questions why he got suc a large tax break

He is the only Democrat in his office

[punqsux]

honestly i havent met anyone in a looooog time thats thought he was a good president. maybe its just my age group but far as i can tell everyone hates him

[shrewmdust]

I vote for nader. he is the new millenium stalin.

[Wlogan31]

How can anyone vote for him? I didn't think it was that hard to vote... Thought you just had to walk in and push a button. Seems pretty easy to me. :)

Sorry, saw a chance to be sarcastic and had to take it.

[Lstorm34]

anyone but Bush. i know this clown will pull out his ace card under his sleeve. i bet when election is near and he is losing, he will announce the capture of osama bin laden. then the retard will start using the 9/11 incident, people will fall for that shit AGAIN, then bam he becomes president again and we start another war with some other country

[Wlogan31]

As bad as Bush is, I can't imagine voting for that stiff Gore in the last election. Don't see him handling things much better - at least not on him own.

[punqsux]

anyone but Bush. i know this clown will pull out his ace card under his sleeve. i bet when election is near and he is losing, he will announce the capture of osama bin laden. then the retard will start using the 9/11 incident, people will fall for that shit AGAIN, then bam he becomes president again and we start another war with some other country

yeah, the week after the wmd are "discovered" in iraq :wink:

seriously, i dont know shit about john kerry, other than he just came here with bon jovi!!!!! (sweet show, didnt catch kerry tho ^^) ...but i know one thing, if he wins bush is out, so he gets my vote

[ryanbph]

I am going to vote for bush, he has been an avg president, he is no where near the speaker that clinton was, but he hasn't done that bad. I am no where near being considered wealthy, and I like the tax cuts that bush put into place. A local talk show host who is a libertarian, has said in a speach on monday, bush spoke like he was speaking to slow 4th graders, and he is embarrased that he is our president, but of the two he is the better man...if john edwards had won, or some of the younger dems had run and won the primary, then it might have been up for grabs...i am from mass, and john kerry is even worse public speaker, due to his boring tone, and doesn't connect with many people.

[The Successful Dropout]

as a daily listener to howard stern....ive never voted....but im definitely voting this year....and its anybody but Bush

[Rich]

I propose this question: How can anyone vote for John Kerry?

[jeffreyjrose]

Politics are crazy; there is no such thing as an honest politician. I used to think that there were people in office that were competent and that were truly out to help the common people of the U.S. Needless to say, I have learned different. Voting today is choosing the lesser of two evils. Bush has serious flaws, but I'll have to learn more about Kerry before I make up my mind. Republicans are for the richies, and they do often harm the lower classes in the U.S... that may sway my vote.

[The Successful Dropout]

im voting for Stewie Griffin

[bignick]

http://www.georgewbush.com

Bush '04!

[ZForce915]

Good posts so far, but one thing is for sure...

If you want Bush out. YOU MUST VOTE

It is well documented from the last election that less than 33% of voters age 18-24 voted. If you don't vote, you have no voice.

[ZForce915]

http://www.georgewbush.com

Bush '04!

Are you serious? I was just starting to like you...

[extzed]

simply because he is not bush, who has lied to public time and time again, all politians flip-flop but bush has taken it to a new level. Now I'm not foolish enough to think that putting someone else in the office is going to fix all the things that are wrong, but we might as well give someone else a chance, perhaps a person who might want to look after americans for a change, ie, spend $87 Billion in Iraq or fund the school system..... hmmm lets go and see if we can give those wmd's and fix daddy's mess

[bmulligan]

I used to think that there were people in office that were competent and that were truly out to help the common people of the U.S.

I'm a common man, and I don't want anyone to help me. I can do it myself, thank you. I'd prefer politicians to leave me the fuck alone.

[/list]

[CantB76]

A vote for Gore was also a vote for Lieberman in the last election. I voted for Bush just to vote against Lieberman. He wants to take away all cheapass violent videogames.

[RedvsBlue]

Why do we keep dragging politics into the forums? Next thin g I know I'm gonna see a thread on abortion.

[bignick]

http://www.georgewbush.com

Bush '04!

Are you serious? I was just starting to like you...

And you would rather have Kerry in office? Some one who can't make up their mind on anything?

[Cracka]

lmao i like Bush... Kerry is just a puss. Did yall see the new shit on T.V. about how in Vietnam he got a scratch on his arm the size of a fingernail and demanded a purple heart.

Dunno why i like Bush but i do. Maybe because he's southern, or maybe because i'm Republican... dunno. But Kerry is definitely a Puss.

[Ebraum]

I might get flamed for my opinion but I beleive Bush made the choices
he beleived were best for this country with the information provided by the current, and past administrations as well as foreign intelligence.

[ave1]

Bush gets my vote. He is in the process of changing the Middle East from a dictator-driven haven of Muslim extremists to a place of liberty.

The actual components designed to produce mustard gas (a chemical WMD) have been uncovered in Iraq, so Bush wasn't lying. Hey, Saddam even used chemical weapons on his own people back in the 80's-- that's certainly evidence of WMD's. . .

He hasn't flip-flopped on anything. He's stood behind every position he's taken since he began his presidency, and he's consistent up to the present time. He has taken on the terrorists head-on and he's been criticized greatly for taking this stand. I think the history books will laud him as a great pioneer for democratic freedom in the world.

The tax cut has worked to drive the economy upward, and it's beginning to translate into new U.S. jobs for workers seeking new careers.

He has vowed to put judges on the Supreme Court who will fight for upholding the Constitution, and who will take a stand against abortion (which is an issue I feel strongly about).

John Kerry will raise taxes (which is going to have a negative effect on the economy), vote for SC judges who don't see the worth of a human child in a mother's womb, and trash the idea of successful school vouchers for poor kids in the inner city who want to attend a better school than the trash heap they are told to go to. . . etc.

Go Bush!

Steve

[Medium_Pimpin]

I cant believe gore didnt put up more of a fight, and i cant believe he hasnt already been Impeached. I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

[CaseyRyback]

John Edwards or John McCain for president :!: :!: :!: :!:

[Ikohn4ever]

I really dont post much but I just get angry by Bush(pun intended).
First off Bush is a dirty bumb. He lied about serving, they can fine no records of his national guard service, no man who saw him there. But how did he get in the national guard, his daddy got him because he was too much of a coward to fight in a war. Then we got Bush being one of the few presidents that have lost more jobs than he made. He also allowed a seceret plane of Saudis leave the US on 9/11 even before they allegedly knew about Ben Ladin.
He destroys the environment and proclaims himself a champion of the people. Only if make over 200 K is he a champion of you. To say that John Kerry is whishy washy is just buying into Bush's propaganda. I am just writing this in hopes people our age will get off the damn couch and vote this year. We are the future of the US and we should be making the decision that will effect our lives, not some old farts that are past their primes.

[Ikohn4ever]

Hey ave1 who do you think gave him those weapons. Good ol republicans like GWs daddy

[FaintDeftone]

I am voting for Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he's not Bush and that's all I care about. Bush can go to hell.

[Cracka]

I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

Bush can go to hell.

you should seriously have more respect for the leader of our fucking country you ass.

Hey ave1 who do you think gave him those weapons. Good ol republicans like GWs daddy

...where the hell do you come up with bs like this? You know it helps if you base your posts on facts. You honestly believe that Republicans gave chemical and biological weapons to Saddam?

[RedvsBlue]

I cant believe gore didnt put up more of a fight, and i cant believe he hasnt already been Impeached. I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

In order to be impeached you have to commit some type of offense that violates your duty. Like I don't know, lying under oath to a grand jury for example... What president do we know who has done that.

[Rich]

I am voting for Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he's not Bush and that's all I care about. Bush can go to hell.

Don't fucking vote if you don't know what you're voting for.

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif

[punqsux]

I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

Bush can go to hell.

you should seriously have more respect for the leader of our shaq-fuing country you ass.

why? he has no respect for leaders of other countries

[RedvsBlue]

I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

Bush can go to hell.

you should seriously have more respect for the leader of our shaq-fuing country you ass.

why? he has no respect for leaders of other countries

That's pure and simple personal opinion with no factual basis.

[shadd01]

I will also be voting for Bush this year, i definatly dont think he is the best president we have ever had, nor is he the worst. I think every president as had their share of mistakes, The question i ask myself is if my life has improved any since he came into the office. I answer no, but it hasnt gotten worse either, so im gonna stick with him. peace.
--Shadd

[Cracka]

why? he has no respect for leaders of other countries

do you have any facts to support this? any examples? or is this just a random statement that you pulled out your ass.

[ave1]

I wouldnt piss on him if he was on fire.

Bush can go to hell.

you should seriously have more respect for the leader of our shaq-fuing country you ass.

why? he has no respect for leaders of other countries

If you ask me, I'm glad he doesn't bow to anything and everything the UN tells him he needs to do. I'm also glad he has no respect for Saddam Hussein and those Taliban leaders who denigrate women and children in the name of "Allah".

Steve

[ave1]

Hey ave1 who do you think gave him those weapons. Good ol republicans like GWs daddy

And you know this from what source?

Steve

[punqsux]

i think he has to realize that the world is more important than the u.s. and that going against the un was a major mistake, maybe it wasnt being proactive enough, but then y not just withdraw from the UN since he clearly dosent respect them??

humans before americans

[bignick]

Preach on ave1. I am with you %100. All these anti bush people are just like Kerry. They change their opinion on everything! Look at Clinton, where was he during Vietnam. Canada! Now you all criticise Bush for his National Guard servive! Atleast Bush says what he is going to do, unlike Kerry who just tells you what you want to hear. We should start an abortion thread. That should be illegal as well. Except for rape and incest cases. If you are not willing to have a child, dont have sex.

[MorganWebbLover]

Why do we keep dragging politics into the forums? Next thing I know I'm gonna see a thread on abortion.


I totally agree it's seems these threads get created just to insight a flame war or a disagreement . No offense people but I really couldn't give a flying fuck who you voted for or who you are voting for. This is a Video Game message board and If I wanted to argue about politics i'll talk to my wife .

[Scrubking]

I am voting for Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he's not Bush and that's all I care about. Bush can go to hell.

Don't shaq-fuing vote if you don't know what you're voting for.

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif


That pic deserves a repost. :rofl:

[Missingdata]

Good posts so far, but one thing is for sure...

If you want Bush out. YOU MUST VOTE

It is well documented from the last election that less than 33% of voters age 18-24 voted. If you don't vote, you have no voice.

You sound like my gov. teacher...

Gov teacher, "IF you don't vote, you don't have a voice"

[Cracka]

i think he has to realize that the world is more important than the u.s. and that going against the un was a major mistake, maybe it wasnt being proactive enough, but then y not just withdraw from the UN since he clearly dosent respect them??

well since it was basically just Russia and France voting against going into Iraq and ousting Saddam, and since we have found that russia had been selling arms to Iraq and i believe i heard France had oil contracts with Saddam, so i believe his choice was justified.

Also for anyone who may be thinking that the U.S. needs to "mind its own business"... that is what we were doing before WWII, and when Japan started invading small nations, we did nothing, and eventually we were attacked.

[The_Continental]

I too will be voting for Bush this year. In 20 years, when the middle-east is a peaceful, democratic, and productive part of the world, Bush will be looked at as a visionary.

That notion alone scares the shit out of the left.

I doubt many of the people who say they'll vote for Kerry this year actually will. People who have looked at Kerry's voting record in the senate, and who actually have a serious stake in society could not possibly vote for Kerry.

Simply put, if you are a working person, trying to raise kids and pay off a mortgage, you would be wise to vote for Bush.

If you are a 19 year-old that still lives off your folks, you can say you'll vote for Kerry, but chances are you won't get off your ass when it comes the time.

[Scrubking]

In case anyone missed it. There is a current investigation into the oil for food program and there is evidence that Saddam was bribing the leaders of France, Germany, Russia and the UN to protect Iraq.

In case you didn't know.

[bignick]

Oh ya, Bush has 4 votes coming out of my house. 5 if I can get my little sister to register to vote.

[CaseyRyback]

Why I choose to vote aganist Bush:

He ruined Texas's economy through a series of tax cuts. He cut taxes by several hundred million dollars. To make up for the loss in education funds cities had to raise taxes dramatically in order to continue to fund their schools at an acceptable level.

He also did not bring gambling to Texas. Not that I am for it, but the amount of money that goes to Schreveport is astronomical (Ann Richards was going to introduce gambling if I remember correctly)

His policy about no child left behind is a joke. In order to improve test scores, only children that have normal and above intelligence are tested (its amazing that about 5 out of 25 were usually pulled from my classes and not required to take the test)

personally I do not like Kerry either, and will probably not vote for him unless Edwards is his VP

[bignick]

Trust me Casey, bringing gambling in isn't all its cracked up to be. Just look at CT.

[thatstoobad]

You sound like my gov. teacher...

Gov teacher, "IF you don't vote, you don't have a voice"

if a person doesn't want bush in office, that person better vote, otherwise they have absolutely no right to whine about it if he wins.

[CaseyRyback]

Trust me Casey, bringing gambling in isn't all its cracked up to be. Just look at CT.

well considering states like GA use funds from their lottery to pay for students who have above a B average to go to college I have no major problems with gambling.

but I can see how people do, but it is just money that floods into LA that TX loses out on

[The_Continental]

His policy about no child left behind is a joke. In order to improve test scores, only children that have normal and above intelligence are tested (its amazing that about 5 out of 25 were usually pulled from my classes and not required to take the test)


Casey,

I've spent days researching this very issue, and can find no evidence that Bush, or the right wing is resposible for who does, and doesn't show up for tests. Unless secret service guys are waiting outside the classroom, I'm not sure how they could keep these kids out.

If you are aware of any resources, please post.

[Cracka]

He ruined Texas's economy through a series of tax cuts. He cut taxes by several hundred million dollars. To make up for the loss in education funds cities had to raise taxes dramatically in order to continue to fund their schools at an acceptable level.

how exactly did the tax cuts ruin the economy? More tax cuts, more money in the peoples pockets, which leads to more spending. Also if the cities ended up raising taxes, after have the tax cuts, wouldnt the tax cuts and the raised taxes pretty much so cancel each other out and make it the same as it would have been if nothing had changed in the taxes? I'm not seeing how this "ruined Texas's economy"

He also did not bring gambling to Texas.

...one of your reasons.. honestly?.... that you arent voting for him.. is because he didnt bring gambling to Texas...? ....you're not even from TX

[bignick]

Trust me Casey, bringing gambling in isn't all its cracked up to be. Just look at CT.

well considering states like GA use funds from their lottery to pay for students who have above a B average to go to college I have no major problems with gambling.

but I can see how people do, but it is just money that floods into LA that TX loses out on

Thats good that GA does that. I know that CT gets over 100 mil, and no one seems to know where it went! It could be good to TX if laws were in place that quarenteed where the money went. Hell CA has so many casinos and look at them!

[PawnTakesKing]

Preach on ave1. I am with you %100. All these anti bush people are just like Kerry. They change their opinion on everything! Look at Clinton, where was he during Vietnam. Canada! Now you all criticise Bush for his National Guard servive! Atleast Bush says what he is going to do, unlike Kerry who just tells you what you want to hear. We should start an abortion thread. That should be illegal as well. Except for rape and incest cases. If you are not willing to have a child, dont have sex.

I always knew Big Nick was a cool guy.

Bush gets my vote this year as well.

[The_Continental]

well considering states like GA use funds from their lottery to pay for students who have above a B average to go to college I have no major problems with gambling.

Hold on a second, you think you deserve to have the government pay for your college education!? with a freakin' B average!?

College is a service dude, it's something you have to pay for. If you have the chops to earn an academic scholarship, you get my respect. But if you expect me to spend my tax dollars for you to go to College, you've got another thing comin'.

[Ikohn4ever]

Some evidence of GW's daddy and the Reagan admin giving are favorite Iraqi dictator some presents

"According to a Senate Report of 1994 {1}: From 1985, if not
earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological
materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers
pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department
of Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow
and agonizing deaths, were:
Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs,
brain, spinal cord and heart.
Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major
organs.
Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria
causing systemic illness.
Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.
Also, Escherichia Coli (E.Coli); genetic materials; human
and bacterial DNA.
Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped
to Iraq during the 1980s. The Senate Report pointed out:
"These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and
were capable of reproduction."
"It was later learned," the committee revealed, "that these
microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to
those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the
Iraqi biological warfare program."
These exports continued to at least November 28, 1989 despite
the fact that Iraq had been reported to be engaging in chemical
warfare and possibly biological warfare against Iranians, Kurds,
and Shiites since the early 80s.
During the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-88, the United States gave
military aid and intelligence information to both sides, hoping
that each would inflict severe damage on the other. (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/usvsiraq.htm)

here's another lil didy "He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region" (http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1991/C231.html"

[Lstorm34]

if you want the REAL TRUTH about bush go watch the dave chapelle sketch BLACK BUSH. :lol:

[Ikohn4ever]

When you make tax cuts when a state is hurting it loses more funding. You know how tax cuts dont hurt the poor and middle class, if the rich are taxed. But are genius pres gives tax cuts that by percentage gives the rich more money. Thats why tax cuts are a bad thing. Tax the heck out of the rich, they can afford it, the trickle down system does not work.

[Scrubking]

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif

Another repost? ...yeah, it's that good!

[chosen1s]

i think he has to realize that the world is more important than the u.s. and that going against the un was a major mistake, maybe it wasnt being proactive enough, but then y not just withdraw from the UN since he clearly dosent respect them??

humans before americans

There is a reason America is the greatest nation on Earth. Because we are BETTER than other nations. We have a lot of natural resources, yes, but what makes this a better place to live is that we do not think like other nations. According to you, perhaps we should have been more "respectful" of the Soviet empire and given their Communism thing a go?

The beauty of morality is that it isn't determined by what others say. Right is right whether everyone agrees with you or not.

Also, please, educate yourself on "the rest of the world" before you make statements about our relations with them. "The rest of the world" includes more than just Germany and France.

[Cracka]

Some evidence of GW's daddy and the Reagan admin giving are favorite Iraqi dictator some presents

"According to a Senate Report of 1994 {1}: From 1985, if not
earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological
materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers
pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department
of Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow
and agonizing deaths, were:
Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs,
brain, spinal cord and heart.
Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major
organs.
Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria
causing systemic illness.
Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.
Also, Escherichia Coli (E.Coli); genetic materials; human
and bacterial DNA.
Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped
to Iraq during the 1980s. The Senate Report pointed out:
"These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and
were capable of reproduction."
"It was later learned," the committee revealed, "that these
microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to
those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the
Iraqi biological warfare program."
These exports continued to at least November 28, 1989 despite
the fact that Iraq had been reported to be engaging in chemical
warfare and possibly biological warfare against Iranians, Kurds,
and Shiites since the early 80s.
During the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-88, the United States gave
military aid and intelligence information to both sides, hoping
that each would inflict severe damage on the other. (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/usvsiraq.htm)

here's another lil didy "He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East

so after reading this, you came up with the conclusion that the Republicans and Bush's dad sent these things to Saddam?

[The_Continental]

Ikohn4ever,

You posted a story by freakin' William Blum. Are you serious?!

This is the guy that deserted the CIA in '69, and then promptly published the names and addresses of 200 CIA employees.

http://www.zmag.org/ForeignPol/aboutblum.htm

Good idea, by the way, overtax hard working, productive people, and let part-time slackers like yourself off scott-free.

[kaw]

I used to be a conservative. Hardcore. I used to vote in every major and minor election since I was 18. I voted for Bush in '00, however, I will not be voting for him in '04.

Tax cuts my ass. I sure haven't see it. I may pay a smaller portion to federal, but that just means the burden has shifted to the states, counties, and cities. School taxes up. Property taxes up. Sales tax up. State tax up. Utilities up. Up up up.

I have decent technical job. In January my management told me my department was being offshored to Brazil. And other friends in other departments heard the same. High paying technical jobs are leaving this country, and Bush doesn't give a damn. In fact, companies get tax credits for dealing with under-developed nations. All the more incentive for the corporate big-wigs to ax the US worker, watch the stock go up a couple bucks, and cash in on those incentives.

Will Kerry be any better? No. He's so ass-backwards upside-down wishy-washy on every issue. Kerry's just trying to tell everyone what they want to hear to get their vote.

They're all crooks. I prefer not to vote for the lesser of two evils. Until a candidate can earn my vote, and give me a reason to get back to the polls, I'm exercising my right to sit on my ass on November 2.

[CaseyRyback]

well considering states like GA use funds from their lottery to pay for students who have above a B average to go to college I have no major problems with gambling.

Hold on a second, you think you deserve to have the government pay for your college education!? with a freakin' B average!?

College is a service dude, it's something you have to pay for. If you have the chops to earn an academic scholarship, you get my respect. But if you expect me to spend my tax dollars for you to go to College, you've got another thing comin'.

Lotteries are usually used for education. Using state funds from the lottery to pay for the education of citizens is something that should be done. It provides incentive for people who could not afford to go to school, and makes those in public education take things more seriously

[Ikohn4ever]

so either reagan was an idiot and didnt realize that this happened, or he knew about it and probably encouraged, ala Iran Contra

[Ikohn4ever]

Ikohn4ever,

You posted a story by freakin' William Blum. Are you serious?!

This is the guy that deserted the CIA in '69, and then promptly published the names and addresses of 200 CIA employees.

http://www.zmag.org/ForeignPol/aboutblum.htm

Good idea, by the way, overtax hard working, productive people, and let part-time slackers like yourself off scott-free.

Hey The_Continental, thats not what I am saying. First off just cause to dont make big bucks, does not mean you are a slacker. What always happens is even though the rich pay more in taxes they pay at a much less percentage of their total income then poor. The poor dont pay much but their meager money is better kept for themselves. Let the rich suffer for once

[The_Continental]

Using state funds from the lottery to pay for the education of citizens is something that should be done. It provides incentive for people who could not afford to go to school, and makes those in public education take things more seriously

As I said, if you have the chops to get an academic scholarship, you have my respect. But if you've been cruising through High School with B's hoping for someone else to pay for you college education, the only thing I can say to you is, "I'd like a biggie sized number 2, with no onions and a Sprite."

[chosen1s]

Why I choose to vote aganist Bush:

He ruined Texas's economy through a series of tax cuts. He cut taxes by several hundred million dollars. To make up for the loss in education funds cities had to raise taxes dramatically in order to continue to fund their schools at an acceptable level.

He also did not bring gambling to Texas. Not that I am for it, but the amount of money that goes to Schreveport is astronomical (Ann Richards was going to introduce gambling if I remember correctly)

His policy about no child left behind is a joke. In order to improve test scores, only children that have normal and above intelligence are tested (its amazing that about 5 out of 25 were usually pulled from my classes and not required to take the test)

personally I do not like Kerry either, and will probably not vote for him unless Edwards is his VP

This statement is moronic. I was born and raised in Texas. This is the problem with "left-thinking" people. They make statements with no proof and make no effort to check the facts.

Point 1: Texas has a beautiful economy, and illegal immigration causes a LARGE part of the problems that do exist. Until you have visited a hospital in South Texas filled with illegal immigrants who are giving birth or getting emergency care - at TAXPAYER EXPENSE - then taking their illegal incomes back to Mexico with them, you have no idea what you are talking about. I grew up in Texas, and our economy is incredibly strong.

Point 2: HAVE YOU BEEN TO SHREVEPORT? Thank God Bush kept gambling out of Texas. You people with your bleeding hearts feel so bad for the poor who can't seem to make it on their own, and then you complain about the lack of an institution that deepens their problem? You should research the effects of a casino on a community (the WHOLE community)

Point 3: The education policy I do not know about. Do you like that? There is an issue out there that I don't know about so I freely admit that and don't just mindlessly throw out accusations/defensive statements that I heard on DNN (Democratic News Network)...Oh, sorry, I meant CNN.

[BlueStorm781]

I admit that I did vote for Bush back in 2000, but I also admit that he was not my first choice. I would have rather much McCain as president. I believe he could have handled the job very well, and I can't really see as to why he didn't make it past the primaries. This time, Republicans don't really have a choice besides electing Bush again. It would be nice to have options.

On a side note, I wish people would get off Bush a bit claiming he's done everything wrong as president. If you want to blame him for our social problems, blame the senate and congress as well, because they are responsible for letting his policies go through. He does come up with policies, but I believe many can't be approved until they go through senate for voting.

I know I'm going to get my ass chewed out for that statement, but that's what I think. It's more than the president who makes the decisions in this country, yet it's the easiest person to blame.

[The_Continental]

What always happens is even though the rich pay more in taxes they pay at a much less percentage of their total income then poor. The poor dont pay much but their meager money is better kept for themselves. Let the rich suffer for once

Obviously you do not understand the Federal income tax system within the United States of America. As your annual income increases, so does the percentage of your income that gets taxed.

This time last year, I lost 18 percent of each bi-weekly paycheck. Since then, I've gotten a significant raise, but now I lose 25 percent of my paycheck. Yes, I get more money, but I lose more money too. I feel as though I must post the following... read it if you wish:

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for dinner. The bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh $7.

The eighth $12.

The ninth $18.

The 10th man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."

So now dinner for the 10 only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being PAID to eat their meal.

So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The 10th now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got $1 out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the 10th man and exclaimed, "But he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved $1, too. It's unfair that he got 10 times more than me!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up.

The next night the 10th man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

[CaseyRyback]

Using state funds from the lottery to pay for the education of citizens is something that should be done. It provides incentive for people who could not afford to go to school, and makes those in public education take things more seriously

As I said, if you have the chops to get an academic scholarship, you have my respect. But if you've been cruising through High School with B's hoping for someone else to pay for you college education, the only thing I can say to you is, "I'd like a biggie sized number 2, with no onions and a Sprite."

considering the fact that most people can not get acedemic scolarships, means that some would not be able to go to school. Just because someone is born into poverty does not mean they should not get an opportunity to succeed in life due to the situtation they were born in.

It also proabably makes schools have a much fairer acceptance policy. anyone who has applied to college knows that race plays a large factor in getting accepted.

Also I do not see how people just coast with B's. I know that most classes I got a B in I did not coast in.

[Ikohn4ever]

chosen1s let me guess who you watch Fox News aka I hate democrats aka The home of the spin zone. I bet you like O'Reilly too. You cold hearted right-wingers are so typical. Ohh yeah didnt dubbya just allow all sorts of illegals to stay here to work. Maybe they are building his rocketship to Mars and beyond

[chosen1s]

[quote=The_Continental]
Lotteries are usually used for education. Using state funds from the lottery to pay for the education of citizens is something that should be done. It provides incentive for people who could not afford to go to school, and makes those in public education take things more seriously

No, lotteries are sold to the public as "for education". Generally, the money mysteriously disappears when it hits the government's hands. There have been a number of studies done and in most states, the money goes to education through the following argument - "Gee, we were going to have to pull funding from schools to pay for this social plan we just started. Thanks to the lottery/casino money, we can give the "gambling money" to the schools to make up for the money we take from them.

[The_Continental]

considering the fact that most people can not get acedemic scolarships, means that some would not be able to go to school. Just because someone is born into poverty does not mean they should not get an opportunity to succeed in life due to the situtation they were born in.

It also proabably makes schools have a much fairer acceptance policy. anyone who has applied to college knows that race plays a large factor in getting accepted.


I only have one response to this. The earlier you learn that the world is not a fair place, the better off you'll be. The longer you live with the flowery notion that the government exists to create "fairness for and between all individuals," the longer your life will remain stagnant and resentful.

Did you happen to get a B in English?

[CaseyRyback]

considering the fact that most people can not get acedemic scolarships, means that some would not be able to go to school. Just because someone is born into poverty does not mean they should not get an opportunity to succeed in life due to the situtation they were born in.

It also proabably makes schools have a much fairer acceptance policy. anyone who has applied to college knows that race plays a large factor in getting accepted.


I only have one response to this. The earlier you learn that the world is not a fair place, the better off you'll be. The longer you live with the flowery notion that the Government exists to create "fairness for and between all individuals," the longer your life will remain stagnant and resentful.

Did you happen to get a B in English?

no, I am in the midst of writing a paper and have been prepping for finals for the past two weeks so my typing is proabbly not what it should be

and yes I know that money for the lottery goes into a general collection fund similar to that of social security. It still is a viable revunue stream that allows people to benefit from another service the government offers.

most state schools are already heavily financed so its really only about 3200 per student you are making up for (approx. 16 percent of my education I have to pay for I believe)

[bignick]

What always happens is even though the rich pay more in taxes they pay at a much less percentage of their total income then poor. The poor dont pay much but their meager money is better kept for themselves. Let the rich suffer for once

Obviously you do not understand the Federal income tax system within the United States of America. As your annual income increases, so does the percentage of your income that gets taxed.

This time last year, I lost 18 percent of each bi-weekly paycheck. Since then, I've gotten a significant raise, but now I lose 25 percent of my paycheck. Yes, I get more money, but I lose more money too. I feel as though I must post the following... read it if you wish:

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for dinner. The bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh $7.

The eighth $12.

The ninth $18.

The 10th man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."

So now dinner for the 10 only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being PAID to eat their meal.

So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The 10th now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got $1 out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the 10th man and exclaimed, "But he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved $1, too. It's unfair that he got 10 times more than me!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up.

The next night the 10th man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

This is the best explanation I have ever seen. Good job on posting it.

[The_Continental]

Thanks BigNick,

I love that explanation. Lefites hate it. It breaks down the system in such an irrefutable manner that no one can really argue with it.

[BlueStorm781]

That should be "I would rather much have McCain as president." than "I would have rather much McCain as president."

[icruise]

What's with this "Kerry flip-flops" BS? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps changing your mind because of life experiences you've had or because circumstances in the world have changed might be a *very good* thing? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps "sticking to your guns no matter what" is just another way of saying that you never admit when you're wrong?

[Cracka]

CaseyRyback, i wouldnt depend on the lottery to pay for my college tuition... if you are serious about going to college and making something of yourself, but cant afford it, you should look into student loans programs, but the last thing i would do is depend on the lottery.

[Cracka]

icruise, by Kerry "flip-flopping" we mean that he says one thing and does another. He's a hyprocrit. He votes for one bill, then says he's against it. lol does scrubking need to repost that pic again? lol

[chosen1s]

chosen1s let me guess who you watch Fox News aka I hate democrats aka The home of the spin zone. I bet you like O'Reilly too. You cold hearted right-wingers are so typical. Ohh yeah didnt dubbya just allow all sorts of illegals to stay here to work. Maybe they are building his rocketship to Mars and beyond

I don't necessarily like his policy with illegal immigrants, but at least he's acknowledging the problem. I can't really tell from your statement what you're trying to say.

Yes, I watch Fox News, and CNN, and occasionally network news. Yes, Fox leans against Democrats' viewpoints, but I think that is for 2 reasons:
1) A lot of "left" ideas are based on emotion. When you look at them critically and apply logic they just don't stand up. In my mind, I suppose you would say that I "justify" Fox by saying that I think they are more intillectual critical than other news shows (Bill O'Reilly is indeed a favorite because he is brutally rational in his approach. I don't agree with everything he says, but geez - at least he can tell you WHY he feels that way).
2) I never bought the "Liberal" news media concept that my parents and teachers fed me growing up. That is, until I got old enough to understand politics and take an honest look at them with my own two eyes (NOT just what O'Reilly -on the right- or *pick one of my profs* -on the left- said about them). Having given it honest consideration and actually beginning with a mindset AGAINST the prospective the the vast majority of media is slanted against conservative ideas, I have to say that the media is blatantly left-leaning.
Anybody catch 60 Minutes Sunday? Where they interviewed the guy who just came out with a book criticizing President Bush? The interviewer asked several tough questions like "Do you think the President did a bad job?" and "So, in your opinion, the President lied?" Come on, this is the hard-hitting journalistic integrity that brought down Nixon? I don't think so. It was a 15-minute commercial against the President with not even a critical "devil's advocate" question. How do you think Kerry would be doing right now if every time you turned on your TV, some "non-partisan" news anchor was interviewing someone who hates Kerry and treating them as a non-biased source with questions like "So, you think Kerry would be weak in a decision-making role?".
Point 2 would be the love-fest between Barbara Walters and Al Gore a year or so ago. Anybody catch her hard-hitting interview with good ole' Al where she practically BEGGED him to run in 2004? She laughed at all of his joke, and the closest she ever got to a difficult question was when she discussed his posture in the debates. "In the first debate, you seemed rigid". "Then your advisers made some suggestions." Al goes on with his analogy to the 3 bears "The first was too big, the second too soft, but the third was just right." There was her glorious golden moment! Really? Just right? What about in the third debate when you bowed up to Bush like a Junior High bully and he didn't back down? Waht were you thinking? Were you trying to bully him? Were you so angry you couldn't stay on your own side? The whole nation saw it. We all want to know what was going through your crazy head! Barbara, ask the question! ASK THE QUESTION!!! Of course not. She just went on laughing about his 3 bears joke and quickly got away from the issue. The rest of the hour was more Barbara love. I'm amazed she was able to keep her shirt on.

Which brings me to my point. Whiny liberal people love complaining about Fox News as though it's this totally unfair right-wing conspiracy. Fox News is to TV news what any left-wing radio show is to talk radio. Look, we can all admit that talk radio is dominated by the right, and nobody on the right (because we *are* fair and balanced though many have a terrible time admitting it) would ever cry foul because a left-leaning talk show came on the air. You should at least have the common sense to be able to look at TV the same way and see that Fox News, even if it were Republican-funded and blatantly right, would be the island in the ocean of left-wing TV press.

[chosen1s]

What's with this "Kerry flip-flops" BS? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps changing your mind because of life experiences you've had or because circumstances in the world have changed might be a *very good* thing? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps "sticking to your guns no matter what" is just another way of saying that you never admit when you're wrong?

He flip-flops on issues that he has not had time to change his opinion on. Either you have to admit that he doesn't think his decisions through clearly the first time or that he changes according to what he thinks will be popular (rather than what's right). Changing your mind on some things and admitting you're wrong is good. Changing your mind on everything is an indication that you don't have a sense of reason behind what you are doing.

[Ikohn4ever]

I hate to burst your bubble BigNick but that is the typical answer that righty's give for tax cuts. You are calculating this like everyone gets paid in checks alone, but many rich people are invested in the stock market and since there has been a decrease in the capital gains tax, they save a lot of money there. Also with the slow demize of the estate tax by 2010. That means all those fat cats can die and not give a penny back, no capital gains at all. Ohh yeah and the republicans say its for all those poor farmers and small businesses.

[CaseyRyback]

CaseyRyback, i wouldnt depend on the lottery to pay for my college tuition... if you are serious about going to college and making something of yourself, but cant afford it, you should look into student loans programs, but the last thing i would do is depend on the lottery.

yea I know that. I am just bringing up the point that GA pays the difference between the 15 percent most other states make students pay.

something can be said for having to pay your own way as it makes you more responsible, I was just bringing up the point that there are benefits to it. There are also problems as there are with everything (such as they had to cut down on some of their costs)

[bignick]

A lot of "left" ideas are based on emotion. When you look at them critically and apply logic they just don't stand up.

Very good point!

[bignick]

I hate to burst your bubble BigNick but that is the typical answer that righty's give for tax cuts. You are calculating this like everyone gets paid in checks alone, but many rich people are invested in the stock market and since there has been a decrease in the capital gains tax, they save a lot of money there. Also with the slow demize of the estate tax by 2010. That means all those fat cats can die and not give a penny back, no capital gains at all. Ohh yeah and the republicans say its for all those poor farmers and small businesses.

It will help the poor farmers. Do you have any idea how much farm land is worth? A shit load! Especially land out in California.

[Ikohn4ever]

many right ideas are focused on money and greed. See I can give me opinion too

[chosen1s]

Ok, I would really like somone who hates Bush to respond to this comment because I do not understand it at all. Please note the following complaints of the "left".

1) Bush "Should have known 911 was coming and done something about it".
2) Bush "Rushed to war against Iraq and had no business going in there when they did not attack us."

How do you justify these 2 positions. On the one hand, you're trying to accuse him of inaction when a lurking threat seemed to be coming. On the other hand, when he identified a growing threat and acted on it, you condemn him for rushing in (If you can call 10+ years of asking a dictator to abide by the treaty that allowed him to maintain control of his nation to begin with 'rushing') when he was given good intelligence that there was a growing threat.

Isn't the reality that you don't like Bush and one or the other of these arguments gives you reason to hate him?

Finally, PLEASE don't talk about the WMD's. Clinton and Daschill (Sorry if I misspelled) BOTH made extremely strong statements that Iraq posed an imminent threat and that they were confident that Iraq was building WMD's. It is well documented, but naturally if you only watch CNN or network news it is infrequently reported. If you are going to accuse Bush of lying, at least be intellectually honest and accuse your precoius Clinton and Ted of lying to the public as well.

You know, Bush might be a competitive guy, he might even have a little bit of a mean streak, but if he IS that vindictive why don't you ask yourself how he treats his enemies. It's pretty clear most of his real enemies are in Washington and he is remarkably respectful of them. Do you really, REALLY, think he has some sort of blood-lust that would lead him lie to America so he can go to war with Iraq? Really? REALLY? Seriously, really?

More importantly though, answer my question above. How do you rectify those 2 arguments?

[BlueStorm781]

What's with this "Kerry flip-flops" BS? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps changing your mind because of life experiences you've had or because circumstances in the world have changed might be a *very good* thing? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps "sticking to your guns no matter what" is just another way of saying that you never admit when you're wrong?

He flip-flops on issues that he has not had time to change his opinion on. Either you have to admit that he doesn't think his decisions through clearly the first time or that he changes according to what he thinks will be popular (rather than what's right). Changing your mind on some things and admitting you're wrong is good. Changing your mind on everything is an indication that you don't have a sense of reason behind what you are doing.

That's how I feel. Kerry seems to take the side that is popular. It's not showing a set plan for his presidency, and the whole double talking thing is a bit ridiculous. He has more sides than KFC, and really can't stick to a single one. I wonder if he has adult ADD.

Here's one thing that really gets me, though. He's claimed many a time over that Bush is "arrogant". Funny, every time I've seen him speak, Kerry seems to have the arrogant tone, as if he can do everything right, and no one else but him is fit for the job.

[CaseyRyback]

I do agree with you on the Factor though. He does make many good points and I agree with him on several things. I like the fact that he has his own opinions and will not back down. Some things I do disagree with (such as the whole focusing on Ludacris thing with Pepsi, only to have Pepsi turn around and hire the Osbournes)

I personally agree with him on immigration. I think that allowing such an open border is a matter of national security and allowing people to do illegal things and have them ignored is a little dumb.

I also agree with you on Iraq, although I wish he would have not placed all his weight on WMD's instead of th fact that he had chemical weapons and committed atrocities. My only problem was the timing, as he made it a campaign issue and made a mockery of what needed to be done (Afganistan was getting old, and they needed something new to get the people behind)

[BlueStorm781]

I'm not paticulary following the rules, but I wanted to respond to these.

1) Bush "Should have known 911 was coming and done something about it".

Ha! The "9/11" plot went all the way back to the Clinton admininstration. It's funny that the 9/11 comission hasn't questioned him (yet they did question Janet Reno).

2) Bush "Rushed to war against Iraq and had no business going in there when they did not attack us."

We didn't "rush" to war. We had to go back 10 years later to finish the job Bush Sr. was doing. If Clinton would have allowed the Gulf War to go on, we would have had Saddam then. And we do have business going in there. He's been hiding things from the U.N., and he's always had intent to harm the U.S. . Plus, he's a terrorist. Maybe not in the obvious sense, but look at what he's done to the people in his country. Why was it ok to get on China's case when they were harming their people, but we're supposed to ignore what's going on in Iraq. What is going on in that country not only affects our country, but the world. Saddam could have been the next Hitler, and we needed to get him out before he would go on a widespread rampage.

[chosen1s]

I hate to burst your bubble BigNick but that is the typical answer that righty's give for tax cuts. You are calculating this like everyone gets paid in checks alone, but many rich people are invested in the stock market and since there has been a decrease in the capital gains tax, they save a lot of money there. Also with the slow demize of the estate tax by 2010. That means all those fat cats can die and not give a penny back, no capital gains at all. Ohh yeah and the republicans say its for all those poor farmers and small businesses.

I wish I could pay for every voter to take one college-level Econ class. This is the whole point. If you give money to a rich person and they invest it in the stock market, that money supports a company out there. That company takes that money and either HIRES PEOPLE or INVESTS IN MATERIALS to help their business. If they invest in materials, they are giving money to yet another company, who also EMPLOYS people.

Yeah, a fat cat can die and not leave a penny to anyone. Worst case scenario, his money sits in a bank and draws interest. The bank LENDS THAT MONEY out to people who *guess what?* start businesses and HIRE WORKERS with it.

Money taken out of people's pockets and given to the government can either go back into businesses and filter down through the system, creating wealth along the way, or it can go to Government programs which are less efficient (because they have less incentive to utilize the money to its maximum effect).

It's not a crime to be rich, you know. And most people who are rich worked hard to get that way. It's not like it just falls into their hands. Trump, Turner, those guys worked hard and took some MAJOR risks to get where they are. Then we sit on our fat butts and despise them because we think they should pay our way. Maybe if the Lakers win another Championship this season they should all have to give 1/2 of their salaries to all the College basketball players who didn't make it into the NBA. You know, just to make it "fair".

[Ikohn4ever]

Ok, I would really like somone who hates Bush to respond to this comment because I do not understand it at all. Please note the following complaints of the "left".

1) Bush "Should have known 911 was coming and done something about it".
2) Bush "Rushed to war against Iraq and had no business going in there when they did not attack us."

How do you justify these 2 positions. On the one hand, you're trying to accuse him of inaction when a lurking threat seemed to be coming. On the other hand, when he identified a growing threat and acted on it, you condemn him for rushing in (If you can call 10+ years of asking a dictator to abide by the treaty that allowed him to maintain control of his nation to begin with 'rushing') when he was given good intelligence that there was a growing threat.

Isn't the reality that you don't like Bush and one or the other of these arguments gives you reason to hate him?

Finally, PLEASE don't talk about the WMD's. Clinton and Daschill (Sorry if I misspelled) BOTH made extremely strong statements that Iraq posed an imminent threat and that they were confident that Iraq was building WMD's. It is well documented, but naturally if you only watch CNN or network news it is infrequently reported. If you are going to accuse Bush of lying, at least be intellectually honest and accuse your precoius Clinton and Ted of lying to the public as well.

You know, Bush might be a competitive guy, he might even have a little bit of a mean streak, but if he IS that vindictive why don't you ask yourself how he treats his enemies. It's pretty clear most of his real enemies are in Washington and he is remarkably respectful of them. Do you really, REALLY, think he has some sort of blood-lust that would lead him lie to America so he can go to war with Iraq? Really? REALLY? Seriously, really?

More importantly though, answer my question above. How do you rectify those 2 arguments?


I am going to try to answer your question as best as I can.

1. From what I believe and have read they did have an idea that there was some sort of terrorist threat. They never really saw it as a serious one though and that is troubling to me. The book that recently came out by Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies" says how there was evidence of a possible attack in the future, but not enough was done. Plus if Gore was in office when that happened the repubs would want his head on a stick.

2. The newest book byBob Woodward's "Plan of Attack" that came out says how Bush had planned to go into Iraq no matter what. Woodward alleging that Saudi Prince Bandar was told by Rumsfeld two months before the invasion of Iraq that it was "going to happen," and he could "take that to the bank". Now it all comes down to who you believe, both have reasons to lie but I feel that Bush wanted an Iraqi conflict to divert from the problems at home. He keeps spending and says it for the war but the problems at home keep adding up and this is an easy way to avoid them.

[chosen1s]

I am going to try to answer your question as best as I can.

1. From what I believe and have read they did have an idea that there was some sort of terrorist threat. They never really saw it as a serious one though and that is troubling to me. The book that recently came out by Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies" says how there was evidence of a possible attack in the future, but not enough was done. Plus if Gore was in office when that happened the repubs would want his head on a stick.

2. The newest book byBob Woodward's "Plan of Attack" that came out says how Bush had planned to go into Iraq no matter what. Woodward alleging that Saudi Prince Bandar was told by Rumsfeld two months before the invasion of Iraq that it was "going to happen," and he could "take that to the bank". Now it all comes down to who you believe, both have reasons to lie but I feel that Bush wanted an Iraqi conflict to divert from the problems at home. He keeps spending and says it for the war but the problems at home keep adding up and this is an easy way to avoid them.

My follow-up:
1) Many people believe that Clinton did nothing about terror warnings and by the time Bush got in he was way behind where we should have been. I would have blamed Gore moreso not because I'm a Republican, but because he A) Was in the middle of all that for 8 years and let it get that far and B) As President, with all that background, certainly should have been aware of the problem and been all over it. But no, I honestly don't think Republicans would be trying to use 9/11 against a Democrat in the fashion that the Dems are to the Republicans if Gore had responded the way Bush did. Nobody made a big fuss about many of Clinton's military shanannagins (Sp) and they were not all that great.

2) Why would it be wrong for Bush to have planned to go to Iraq since 2000? Clinton himself said that they posed a real threat to our National security. I don't see why what you wrote is negative about Bush. Clinton all but said "Clearly Iraq is a threat that must be dealt with" (right before bombing them) and then continued to say the same thing. Why would Bush not have a plan?

[bignick]

Another repost because scrubking is propably all tucked in for the night.

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif

Another repost? ...yeah, it's that good!

[Ikohn4ever]

I am sorry but if I know I am making more money and having to pay less I am going to keep it. Thats the problem with all those rich tax cuts. People dont put more money into the economy but into their own pockets. Especially all those Americans who are CEOs of former US companies that now have their headquarters overseas but get to reap the benefts. They enjoy the money and the tax benefits the most. I picture an uncle scrooge rolling around in his money with VP Dick rubbing his back and dubbya getting him a coconut drink with an umbrella in it. All for a big fat check to spread the lies of Bush's democracy.

If you dont believe me check out the smear campaign against McCain during the 2000 primaries. Bush used the underhanded tactic of push-poll calling him a "liar and a cheat," during a telephone call conducted the night before a primary.

[sansfreud]

Let's agree to disagree. Nobody's qualified. Whatever happens with the war in Sept./Oct. is going to dictate who wins. I honestly don't care which one of them wins. Let's just go to Canada. Everyone hates the US, but no one cares for Canada. *Ohhh, Canada*

[famousmort]

The quote is sometimes attributed to the Reagan landslide, sometimes to Nixon's re-election. A New York film critic, shocked at the Republican victory, cries: "How could he have won? I don't know anyone who voted for him!" Just because you can't see anyone voting that way doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who will.

I'd like to bring it back to the topic title. I, for one, will be voting for Bush. There are many different issues to consider, as discussed by the previous posters. The most important issue to me is national security. After all, the tax rate doesn't matter when the rich man and the poor man are dead (though, it's good to know the government will no longer be charging people for the luxury of being dead). Between Pres. Bush and Sen. Kerry, GWB is the clear choice.

Kerry's declared position on the terror war is that he will do more to work with our allies and respect their positions to get better results from them. The Kerry position on the Iraq war could therefore be described as for the war, but only if our allies (specifically France and Germany, but ignoring all of Europe south or east of Berlin) agree it's the right thing to do. Acting to strike against terrorists and those who support/shelter them is not something we can necessarily always come to a concensus on, especially when our "allies" have conflicting interests. Knowing what's right and knowing what's needed are useless if you cannot act independently. Pres. Bush has proven that he will act proactively and independently for our interests.

Does anyone else realize if we had a President Gore right now that not only would 9-11 have happened, but we'd still be at the United Nations arguing over what kind of sanctions to put on Afghanistan???

Speaking of Afghanistan, where's that pipeline the war protesters told us would be coming if we invaded?

[Ikohn4ever]

I am going to try to answer your question as best as I can.

1. From what I believe and have read they did have an idea that there was some sort of terrorist threat. They never really saw it as a serious one though and that is troubling to me. The book that recently came out by Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies" says how there was evidence of a possible attack in the future, but not enough was done. Plus if Gore was in office when that happened the repubs would want his head on a stick.

2. The newest book byBob Woodward's "Plan of Attack" that came out says how Bush had planned to go into Iraq no matter what. Woodward alleging that Saudi Prince Bandar was told by Rumsfeld two months before the invasion of Iraq that it was "going to happen," and he could "take that to the bank". Now it all comes down to who you believe, both have reasons to lie but I feel that Bush wanted an Iraqi conflict to divert from the problems at home. He keeps spending and says it for the war but the problems at home keep adding up and this is an easy way to avoid them.

My follow-up:
1) Many people believe that Clinton did nothing about terror warnings and by the time Bush got in he was way behind where we should have been. I would have blamed Gore moreso not because I'm a Republican, but because he A) Was in the middle of all that for 8 years and let it get that far and B) As President, with all that background, certainly should have been aware of the problem and been all over it. But no, I honestly don't think Republicans would be trying to use 9/11 against a Democrat in the fashion that the Dems are to the Republicans if Gore had responded the way Bush did. Nobody made a big fuss about many of Clinton's military shanannagins (Sp) and they were not all that great.

2) Why would it be wrong for Bush to have planned to go to Iraq since 2000? Clinton himself said that they posed a real threat to our National security. I don't see why what you wrote is negative about Bush. Clinton all but said "Clearly Iraq is a threat that must be dealt with" (right before bombing them) and then continued to say the same thing. Why would Bush not have a plan?

Well Chosen1 republicans tried to get Clinton out of office for messing around with an intern. When many of our greatest leaders had mistresses. Adultury is the only thing they could get Clinton on and they dug their claws in to it. Think what O'reilly and Rush would say about Gore if he "let" 9/11 happen like Bush, they would be unstoppable. They are vultures that try to pick apart. Listen to the interview between O'Reilly and Franken. O'Reilly falls apart when dealing with someone he just can't mute.

Having a strategy for an attack and saying that their is one is two different things. I have no prob with a pres having a plan in case of emergency. But when we have our troops on a wild goose chase for Osama its not necessary to start something else. Then we had rumsfeld talking of a possible war with North Korea too. Iraq was no immediate threat. We could have waited for a UN decision. We could have waited the 48 hours like we said we would before the attack, but Bush is the cowboy, but he doesnt put it on his backs, he puts in on the back of our troops. There is a misconception of the left that they dont like soliders. I love our troops as much as any righty but I dont want them to die for nothing. This is going to turn into another Vietnam. There are more troops getting killed everyday and we can't leave now until its completly democrasized, which just means more uneeded death.

[Ikohn4ever]

why dont you tell me what is happening there now

[Valkryst]

> > Subject: George Bush Resume
> > Seeking Job:
> >
> > Past Work Experience
> >
> > GEORGE W. BUSH
> > 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
> > Washington, DC 20520
> >
> > EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:
> >
> > Law Enforcement:
> > I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under
> > the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my
> > driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has
> > been "lost" and is not available.
> >
> >
> >
> > Military:
> > I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL.
> > I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my
> > drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to
> > avoid combat duty in Vietnam.
> >
> >
> > College:
> > I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
> > I was a cheerleader.
> >
> >
> > PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
> >
> > I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in
> > the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an Oil
> > company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went
> > bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas
> > Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using
> > taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the
> > oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor
> > of Texas.
> >
> >
> > ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS
> >
> > I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies,
> > making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure,
> > Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in
> > America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune
> > of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most
> > executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my
> > brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to
> > the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000
> > votes.
> >
> >
> >
> > ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
> > I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a
> > criminal record.
> >
> > I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over
> > one billion dollars per week. I spent the U.S. surplus and
> > effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury. I shattered the record for
> > the largest annual deficit in U.S. history. I set an economic record
> > for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set
> > the all- time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I
> > set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the
> > U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million
> > Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month. I'm
> > proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
> > administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire,"
> > Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
> >
> > I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by
> > a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder
> > for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest
> > lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth
> > Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S.
> > History, Enron.
> >
> > My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys
> > to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election
> > decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton
> > against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent
> > investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent
> > investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I
> > presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused
> > to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was
> > revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S.
> > history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to
> > be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted
> > criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history. I
> > created the Ministry of Homeland security, the largest bureaucracy
> > in the history of the United States government. I've broken more
> > international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I am the
> > first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove
> > the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S.
> > from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspector's
> > access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby
> > have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the
> > first President in history to refuse United Nations election
> > inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
> >
> > I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any
> > President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record
> > for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off
> > the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security
> > failure in U.S. history. I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S.
> > after ! the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later
> > made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest
> > failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the all-time
> > record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in
> > public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for
> > protests against any person in the history of mankind.
> >
> > I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,
> > pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign
> > nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the
> > majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I have cut
> > health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
> > benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime. In
> > my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for
> > attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends. I am
> > the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans
> > (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and
> > security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker
> > Buster," a WMD.
> >
> > I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden
> > [sic] to justice.
> >
> > RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
> > All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my
> > father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All
> > records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my
> > bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
> > view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my
> > Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed
> > in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

[Valkryst]

Oh yeah, and if you couldn't tell.

I'd vote for anyone but Bush.

Since Kerry is the man this year, he gets my vote.

[Ikohn4ever]

Amen Valkryst, the truth needs to be told

[Medium_Pimpin]

[quote=FaintDeftone]I am voting for Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he's not Bush and that's all I care about. Bush can go to hell.

Don't shaq-fuing vote if you don't know what you're voting for.



I agree voting half ass is stupid, and you may be called to jury duty if youre registered to vote.
Then again, Jury Duty>>>No money, no job, no rights.

Vote for kerry!

[Rich]

I am voting for Kerry. I don't know much about him, but he's not Bush and that's all I care about. Bush can go to hell.

Don't shaq-fuing vote if you don't know what you're voting for.

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif

Your damn right, Rich. Rich? You rock. Bring back Clinton!

[chosen1s]

> > Subject: George Bush Resume
> > Seeking Job:
> >
> > Past Work Experience
> >
> > PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

Nice job cutting and pasting from your lame email. You could have at least pulled out the little "forward arrows".

If a person's past failures determine their ability to succeed as President, I suggest you look at Abraham Lincoln's job credentials when he became President.

Get your own opinions, study the reality of cause and effect, and stop parroting what your friends and family tell you to think.

[chosen1s]

Oh yeah, and if you couldn't tell.

I'd vote for anyone but Bush.

Since Kerry is the man this year, he gets my vote.

Really? How about Hitler? Stalin? Jeffrey Dahmer? Anybody but Bush? Because our lives are SO much worse now than they were 4 years ago. You know, after our country was attacked and the 2 pillars of our economy were reduced to rubble during an economic downturn (which began under the former President). Yeah, our President totally crumbled under the pressure.

Do you realize what that could have done to our economy? Do you realize what would have happened if some cowardly little people-pleaser had been in office and not taken a firm stand against terrorists? Please people, stop listening to the talking heads and put SOME effort into educating yourself before you vote for all of our President.

[PsyClerk]

Lotteries are usually used for education. Using state funds from the lottery to pay for the education of citizens is something that should be done. It provides incentive for people who could not afford to go to school, and makes those in public education take things more seriously

Let me clear this up right now...I work for a school district in South Carolina. SC has a state lottery. The money earned from the lottery is supposed to go to education. Does it? Actually, yes. Did it improve the schools? Not in the slightest. Why? Because once you sell the people on the 'lottery for education', EVERY CENT of money earmarked for education outside of lottery funds gets scrutinized. For every dollar the lottery brings in, educational programs can expect to lose that same dollar from general budget funding. Don't be duped. It might work for a year or two, but after that, fueding politicians will find a way to get their cut and bring home the pork.

[LeviathynX]

This topic is like asking why does anyone buy Madden 200X games?
Just let that one simmer for awhile!

[PsyClerk]

Anyone but Madden in 2005!

[chosen1s]

Well Chosen1 republicans tried to get Clinton out of office for messing around with an intern. When many of our greatest leaders had mistresses. Adultury is the only thing they could get Clinton on and they dug their claws in to it. Think what O'reilly and Rush would say about Gore if he "let" 9/11 happen like Bush, they would be unstoppable. They are vultures that try to pick apart. Listen to the interview between O'Reilly and Franken. O'Reilly falls apart when dealing with someone he just can't mute.

This is one issue that really bugs me. This has been said a million times, but must be said again. The VAST MAJORITY of Republicans/Right Wing who wanted Clinton impeached were and still are concerned about his lying to the grand jury. Remember him saying "that depends on the definition of the word 'is'"? The courts more or less confirmed it when his Presidency was over and they penalized his legal license. Just look around at this site. Lots of good honest people looking for deals, but also lots of people who think if they can "manipulate the truth" to get what they want it's Ok. I certainly don't think Clinton is single-handedly responsible for people's honesty, but as the President he needs to be above that and whether or not he likes it he is up there on the stage setting the example. If President Clinton can get away with lying to a Grand Jury, why shouldn't I? THAT IS THE ISSUE.

It's amazing to me that people justify what he did by saying it was a witch-hunt. You guys all question Bush's actions and that one moron who cut and pasted from his email questions what Bush was doing while in office, but nobody thinks it's irresponsible that Clinton is getting a BJ while he's supposed to be paying attention to National Security? He shoots a couple of missiles at a camel in the Middle East when he had Osama offered to him on a silver platter and then you people blame Bush when 911 happens years later?

Finally, let's say the Repubs were ALL WRONG on that whole Clinton thing. Let me get your position straight - it was WRONG for them to over-dramatize situations and spread lies about President Clinton but now it's Ok for the Democrats to do the same and this is justified because the Republicans did it first? This is what really gets me. Lying today when National Security is at stake is Ok because we think you lied yesterday when Clinton's reputation was at stake.

You're right, though. If Gore was in office the talk shows would be screaming for his head. As I said, some of that would be a different situation because Gore was there for 8 years and that administration did almost nothing about terrorist attacks.


Having a strategy for an attack and saying that their is one is two different things. I have no prob with a pres having a plan in case of emergency. But when we have our troops on a wild goose chase for Osama its not necessary to start something else. Then we had rumsfeld talking of a possible war with North Korea too. Iraq was no immediate threat. We could have waited for a UN decision. We could have waited the 48 hours like we said we would before the attack, but Bush is the cowboy, but he doesnt put it on his backs, he puts in on the back of our troops. There is a misconception of the left that they dont like soliders. I love our troops as much as any righty but I dont want them to die for nothing. This is going to turn into another Vietnam. There are more troops getting killed everyday and we can't leave now until its completly democrasized, which just means more uneeded death.

If Bush is so irresponsible with our troops, why do they love him and show him so much respect? They didn't love Clinton, so it's not about the position of President.

The situation in Iraq is misconstrued in our media because it's not exciting to report progress. The real "stories" are the minor uprisings and terror attacks. Many politicians, left and right, have visited Iraq since we took over and ALL have said that the portrayal here in the states is badly mistaken.

Did Iraq present an immediate threat? No more than Bin Laden was an immediate threat to the US on 9/10. You can't have it both ways. Iraq had ignored the UN for over a decade, and we were the only country to stand up and give legitimacy to the governing body. The world is more stable because countries out there who want to act up realize that the US is not going to sit and beg for understanding if they do. You will notice that Iran offered up their nuclear program since we invaded Iraq. Those people over there now realize that we aren't joking around.

[The_Continental]

1) Bush "Should have known 911 was coming and done something about it".

Ha! The "9/11" plot went all the way back to the Clinton admininstration. It's funny that the 9/11 comission hasn't questioned him (yet they did question Janet Reno).



You may not know this, but the 9-11 commission interviewed Clinton the same day that they interviewed Condoleezza Rice. They didn't demand that it was televised, and the fact of the matter is, that the conversation probably went something like this:

"Bill how your golf game this morning?"

"Great guys, thanks. Got a any coffee?"

The 9-11 "commission" is a joke. The fact that they would allow Jamie Gorelick, the woman who wrote the memorandum to re-build the wall between the CIA and FBI, to sit on the commission is inane.

[The_Continental]

Well Chosen1 republicans tried to get Clinton out of office for messing around with an intern. When many of our greatest leaders had mistresses.

Icon4ever,

You are the most misinformed person I have ever seen on these boards. Republicans tried to get Clinton out of office not because he cheated on his wife, but because he committed a FELONY. Perjury in front of the grand jury is a felony.

[ZarathosNY]

I'm not paticulary following the rules, but I wanted to respond to these.

1) Bush "Should have known 911 was coming and done something about it".

Ha! The "9/11" plot went all the way back to the Clinton admininstration. It's funny that the 9/11 comission hasn't questioned him (yet they did question Janet Reno).

2) Bush "Rushed to war against Iraq and had no business going in there when they did not attack us."

We didn't "rush" to war. We had to go back 10 years later to finish the job Bush Sr. was doing. If Clinton would have allowed the Gulf War to go on, we would have had Saddam then. And we do have business going in there. He's been hiding things from the U.N., and he's always had intent to harm the U.S. . Plus, he's a terrorist. Maybe not in the obvious sense, but look at what he's done to the people in his country. Why was it ok to get on China's case when they were harming their people, but we're supposed to ignore what's going on in Iraq. What is going on in that country not only affects our country, but the world. Saddam could have been the next Hitler, and we needed to get him out before he would go on a widespread rampage.



Dude, Clinton already testified.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040408/pl_nm/security_clinton_dc_1&printer=1

And you seem to forget that the first Gulf war happened under Bush Sr, not Clinton

It's funny, Clinton can give all the time the commission needs, but Bush has to limit his time and be in there holding hands with Cheney. Bush didn't even want the commisson to happen, and has been delaying and withholding info from them.

[Stryffe2004]

What has BUsh really done on National Security? He talks a good game, but when you look at the facts, he has made things worse than before 9/11. Whether you say Iraq was a threat or not is really not important. Bush made up his mind to attack for whatever reason and then tried to conform the fits to give a excuse.

First it was Iraq was tied to Al-Queda and maybe 9/11. That was proven untrue. Then it was they were not cooperating with weapons inspectors. Then it was, well we have evidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. What was the evidence, one of Saddam's top rivals said he did. There was no reason to rush into Iraq and spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives. This is painfully obvious now that no weaposn of mass destruction have been found and the administration is admitting their intelligence may have been flawed. The mobile labortory therory was easily debunked, as the chimical and biological agents have to be kept in very specific types of enviroments. It is not very liekly that you can put them on trucks and drive them around the desert. An invasion of a sovereign nation that is not being an aggressor is a violation of international law. That is why we had Desert Storm in 1992, because Saddam violated internationl law. The US has been able to hold the moral high ground for over 200 years because we "defended freedom and liberty." By becoming the aggressor on such shoddy evidence, we have lost that high ground.

Iraq posed no threat because they had no money. Their military was in shambles because they have not been able to import parts to fix their equipment. Why do you think the initial invasion was over so fast. The effect of the war has been to alienante long standing allies over a war that served no real purpose. Ironically, we are now asking those allies for help in sorting out the mess. The end result is that we have pissed off our allies and made new enemies by invading a sovreign country. Has the helped in the war on terrorism? Not in my mind. Do I feel safer now? Nope.

[ZarathosNY]

Well Chosen1 republicans tried to get Clinton out of office for messing around with an intern. When many of our greatest leaders had mistresses.

Icon4ever,

You are the most misinformed person I have ever seen on these boards. Republicans tried to get Clinton out of office not because he cheated on his wife, but because he committed a FELONY. Perjury in front of the grand jury is a felony.


Clinton did not commit perjury. For perjury to be commited, you have to lie about facts germaine to the case. Whether or not he had sex with Lewinsky was not germaine to Paula Jones' case, so it was not perjury.

Meanwhile, Bush diverted $700M in funds meant for Afghanistan to prepare for the Iraq war is an impeachable crime, but dont hold your breath on the "rule of law" republicans investigating it. I am still waiting for the White House to find out who leaked Valerie Plame's name to the press. Bush said that he would not tolerate even the image of impropriety, and yet he stalls on who leaked her name. Whoever did, commited treason, especially since
she was involved in looking for WMD's.

[PsyClerk]

The 9-11 commission is a huge waste of time and taxpayer money. Who was responsible? I'd say it's those guys that hijacked the planes then died in the crashes.

It sickens me that this country has become so concerned with finding a scapegoat. Who gives a shit who may or may not have been responsible, why don't we spend the time we've dedicated to the witch hunt on making sure it doens't happen again?

An attack like 9-11 had never happened before and it changed the country. Before 9-11, I blame no one because the very idea of something like this happening (on that scale) bordered on the absurd.

[ZarathosNY]

The 9-11 commission is a huge waste of time and taxpayer money. Who was responsible? I'd say it's those guys that hijacked the planes then died in the crashes.

It sickens me that this country has become so concerned with finding a scapegoat. Who gives a shit who may or may not have been responsible, why don't we spend the time we've dedicated to the witch hunt on making sure it doens't happen again?

An attack like 9-11 had never happened before and it changed the country. Before 9-11, I blame no one because the very idea of something like this happening (on that scale) bordered on the absurd.


The whole point of the 9-11 commisson is to find out what went wrong and to prevent it from happening again. There was a lot of information in the pipeline that if had been gathered in one place, the possibilty existed that 9-11 could have been prevented. Richard Clarke testified to this. The idea that somelike like this would happen did occur to people. The Hart-Rudman report warned Bush in Jan 2001 that a terrorist attack on American soil as not a matter of if but when.

[PsyClerk]

If that's their job, then the commission is failing. It looks to me as if they're only out to find someone to point the finger at other than Al Qaeda and the actual hijackers.

BTW, don't mention Richard Clarke. I immediately discredit ANYONE who claims to have had 'important information' or otherwise 'fought against the system' to avert disaster, yet waits until much later to let everyone else know. And this conveniently happens when their book detailing all of this hits store shelves.

[omflshark33]

I would take Bush over Gore anyday. Bush has done a decent job. The last few years would have been difficult for any president to handle. Last time I checked our previous President (Clinto) lied his ass off as well. Like every election year, I will look at all the canidates carefully and make my choice, but Kerry is certainly not an attractive alternative to Bush from where I am standing.

[Indiana]

A vote for Gore was also a vote for Lieberman in the last election. I voted for Bush just to vote against Lieberman. He wants to take away all cheapass violent videogames.

So instead you voted for a president who wants to take away all of your RIGHTS!

[Indiana]

I would take Bush over Gore anyday. Bush has done a decent job. The last few years would have been difficult for any president to handle. Last time I checked our previous President (Clinto) lied his ass off as well. Like every election year, I will look at all the canidates carefully and make my choice, but Kerry is certainly not an attractive alternative to Bush from where I am standing.

Bush has not done a decent job. He has not vetoed one bill while it office! It is the president's job to veto bad bills but yet he doesn't understand that he must use this power! :shock:

[Indiana]

Does anyone else realize if we had a President Gore right now that not only would 9-11 have happened, but we'd still be at the United Nations arguing over what kind of sanctions to put on Afghanistan???

Speaking of Afghanistan, where's that pipeline the war protesters told us would be coming if we invaded?

You stated that Kerry has the right opinions and then you somehow tried to force Gore into the conversation! I do believe that Gore would have went after Bin Laden in Afganstan. Remember Clinton already went after Bin Laden. I do also believe that if Gore were in office we would not be in Iraq. Sure, Suddam did many many horrible things. But remember we killed 1,000s of innocent civilians in order to arrest him.

[PsyClerk]

Bush has not done a decent job. He has not vetoed one bill while it office! It is the president's job to veto bad bills but yet he doesn't understand that he must use this power! :shock:

Wow, now THAT'S a new one. Everyone should pay attention to your post. When grasping for straws, it's a good idea to grasp for new ones every so often, instead of the same old ones over and over. Very good, sir.

[Quackzilla]

I'm voting for Kerry because I don't want to have to shoot myself in the foot in 2005. =]

And also I think his environmental policy "rape the earth" is worse than the draft.

[spoo]

In case anyone missed it. There is a current investigation into the oil for food program and there is evidence that Saddam was bribing the leaders of France, Germany, Russia and the UN to protect Iraq.

In case you didn't know.
This is all that need to be said. I read this story yesterday and thought to myself, "it all makes sense now".

The reasons to vote for Bush:
I like the tax cuts. If you want to pay more taxes and loose all of our tax cuts vote for Kerry.
Bush and my rights to own the guns I own and the ones I plan on buying.
Violence in Video games. I don't want a Democrat to tell me that I can't play a game with violence.
Kerry has very sketchy voting habit. Who knows what kind of President he will be.

[Quackzilla]

No, the commercials tell you he has a sketchy voting habit.

Thanks, I never thought I'd meet a moron who fell for that shit. You have just made my day.

[Poodleman]

Bush 2004.... unless you want to wear a turban for the rest of your life!

[Mr Unoriginal]

Bush 2004.... unless you want to wear a turban for the rest of your life!

How can anyone wonder how Bush gets elected when there are idiots like this out there.

[Quackzilla]

Bush 2004.... unless you want to wear a turban for the rest of your life!

WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!

YOU ARE THE DUMBEST FUCKTARD ON THIS BOARD!!!
GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HERE NOW!

[Poodleman]

Most Americans are uneducated and hate to think for themselves. They like to be spoon fed the "crap" the media feeds them. It upsets me to no end how people do not investigate and read both sides of the issues before making a decision (intellegent).

[Poodleman]

Bush 2004.... unless you want to wear a turban for the rest of your life!

WHAT THE shaq-fu!?!?!?!

YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!
GET THE shaq-fu AWAY FROM HERE NOW!

I am still here

[Mr Unoriginal]

Most Americans are uneducated and hate to think for themselves. They like to be spoon fed the "crap" the media feeds them. It upsets me to no end how people do not investigate and read both sides of the issues before making a decision (intellegent).

You're kidding right? Are you implying you are an educated American and then say that if we don't vote for Bush we will be wearing Turbans? That would not even be an ACCURATE exaggeration. If anything they will bomb us and kill us all, not take us over and force us to wear headgear. Get it right.

[snotknocker]

This thread is just wrong. I think politic threads should be banned on CAG. It just promotes a lot of hostility and takes away from the fun of this great site.

This kind of subject just promotes anomosities amongst us and seperates us into categories based on our political beliefs. From there the stereotyping begins
For Bush = Asswipe
against Bush = Asswipe
Really I think your political opinions have no bearing on if your an asswipe or not.

We should post about things a little less controversial. Say........ like........ Video games
Oh my God what a concept

[spoo]

Newsflash: If you are a Bush supporter "YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!" or "a moron". Source Quackzilla
*Sigh*

[ZarathosNY]

If that's their job, then the commission is failing. It looks to me as if they're only out to find someone to point the finger at other than Al Qaeda and the actual hijackers.

BTW, don't mention Richard Clarke. I immediately discredit ANYONE who claims to have had 'important information' or otherwise 'fought against the system' to avert disaster, yet waits until much later to let everyone else know. And this conveniently happens when their book detailing all of this hits store shelves.

Richard Clarke TRIED to get people to listen to him, but the Bush administration wouldn't give him the time of day. Bush layed down on the the job. If you got a memo titled "Bin Laden determined to attack the US", I don't think that signals you to take a month long vacation.

[Quackzilla]

Newsflash: If you are a Bush supporter "YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!" or "a moron". Source Quackzilla
*Sigh*

No, I was referring tto that slightly racist asshole who made the bullshit statement.

Btw, to all of you who have lied maliciously for attempted political gain, you are trying to hinder democracy. In effect, whether you like it or not, you are communists.

Yes, Kerry DID voted for a gas tax.
Yes, Bush DID gut clean air standards and reject the Kyoto treaty.

Lesser of two evils, people! Choose one!

[Han Solo]

"Because rich people get the benefits, thus rich people vote for him. Anyone else is just an idiot. "

The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the income taxes. This means that 50% of the population is only pulling 3.97% of the tax burden. How does this benefit the rich?

If the government takes more money away from companys that you are interested in working for, how does that benefit you in getting a job with that company. When the government takes more money away from companys, it only serves to give more power to the government. It takes power away from you and from the company that wants to hire you.

In a socialistic society (high taxes, high regulation), the government gets the benefits, the people are not rewarded for there hard work.

It is up to you to make a difference in your life, not the government.
Life Liberty and the PURSUIT (not gaurantee) of Happiness.

Never in the history of the world has there been more opportunity for the average citizen to better themselves and become "rich" (however you define rich) than the present United States. It takes hard work, dedication and the mindset that says "I can do it!"

In the United States, Your success in life is not dictated by who wins elections. You have the freedom to better your life. Be thankful that people died to give you that freedom. Don't take it for granted. Dictators around the world (The majority of nations in the United Nations) are afraid of democracy being spread because it is a threat to there power.

[The_Continental]

If you got a memo titled "Bin Laden determined to attack the US", I don't think that signals you to take a month long vacation.

Dude,

We knew that "Bin laden was determined to strike in the US" since the early nineties. Consider this, If Bush bombed the shit out of Afghanistan to root out al-qaeda before 9-11, and 9-11 still happened, all you lefties would say that President Bush CAUSED 9-11.

So which is it? Did he not do enough, did he do too much? You lefties can't seem to decide.

[spoo]

If that's their job, then the commission is failing. It looks to me as if they're only out to find someone to point the finger at other than Al Qaeda and the actual hijackers.

BTW, don't mention Richard Clarke. I immediately discredit ANYONE who claims to have had 'important information' or otherwise 'fought against the system' to avert disaster, yet waits until much later to let everyone else know. And this conveniently happens when their book detailing all of this hits store shelves.

Richard Clarke TRIED to get people to listen to him, but the Bush administration wouldn't give him the time of day. Bush layed down on the the job. If you got a memo titled "Bin Laden determined to attack the US", I don't think that signals you to take a month long vacation.

Richard Clarke is a whiney bitch that is trying to shift the blame from himself to Bush. Clarke did not do his job and when the heat was on him he blamed everyone but himself.

Look at his BBC profile.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3559087.stm

Clinton and Bush both shaq-fued up by not taking Bin Laden serious. Clinton’s administration had intelligence reports and knew where to find Bin Laden on a few occasions. And Bush was busy acting like it was 1993 instead of 2001.

[chosen1s]

Newsflash: If you are a Bush supporter "YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!" or "a moron". Source Quackzilla
*Sigh*

No, I was referring tto that slightly racist asshole who made the bullshit statement.

Btw, to all of you who have lied maliciously for attempted political gain, you are trying to hinder democracy. In effect, whether you like it or not, you are communists.

Yes, Kerry DID voted for a gas tax.
Yes, Bush DID gut clean air standards and reject the Kyoto treaty.

Lesser of two evils, people! Choose one!

The Kyoto treaty was a farce that would have put the US at the rest of the world's mercy. Us signing the Kyoto treaty would be like Bill gates signing an agreement with 10 people off the street to each throw 25% of their salary into a pot and divide it up "fairly". They'd all be snickering because the moron actually fell for it. The Kyoto treaty was designed so the US would bear the majority of the weight of its provisions. Bush voted against the Kyoto treaty, not clean air. Please people, educate yourselves.

If I came up with a "plan" to end hunger by feeding human remains to the poor, and you voted against it, it wouldn't be right to accuse you of failing to support an end to hunger. You have to look at the WHOLE picture before you pass judgment on why a politician makes the decisions they do. If you are uninformed, educate yourselves. If you hate Bush, get some legitimate FACTS and support them LOGICALLY. If you have no facts, then continue to spread your lies and half-truths, because that's all you have. But be aware that it's pretty sad for someone to commit their lives to creating a fantasy world in other people's minds so that their own political ideals can be achieved.

[Quackzilla]

And this, children, is an example of a paranoid schitzophenic. Here, take a look at his X-File...

[fxblack]

We can talk about Democrats track record for bashing video games, but is anyone a little concerned that the government has been obsessed with controlling almost everything we see and hear? Is one breast going to bring society down? Aren't there more important things to focus energy on?

I don't know about you guys, but I LIKE the first amendment. It has given us the chance to make all of these ill informed and half-assed poltical statements.

[GuilewasNK]

It really surprises me that everyone thinks the president is the be-all and end-all of government. I don't care if anyone votes for Kerry or Bush but the President is not the sole issue. If you really want change, regardless of your party affiliation, you need to vote like minded Senators and Representatives in as well. At any rate......

The fact of the matter is this. If we didn't go and remove Saddam who would have? It certainly would not have come from the Iraqis themselves. He reportedly got 100% of the vote in his governments last election. That is not a free society. That means Saddam would have ruled until he died. Then guess who would have taken over? His sons. Then there would be at least another 50 years of Hussein rule. Then guess who would lead. Their sons. See the pattern? Saddam has been a threat and should have been removed a long time ago. The US backed Saddam against Iran (hindsight is always 20/20). That's the same so called "lesser of two evils" logic that some of you are going to employ at the voting both. Personally, I think that it doesn't matter which party has control of the White House in regards to domestic situations because someone is ALWAYS going to be unsatisfied. But in regards to terrorism I would trust Bush. He took action when previous adminstrations (including Republican ones) would have done nothing. The Democrats are saying that Bush should have prevented the 9/11 attacks pre-emptively. After 9/11 Bush saw the need to pre-emptively go into Iraq. Now the Democrats are mad at that despite the fact the wanted 9/11 to be pre-empted. There is no logic in that whatsoever (once again, hindsight is 20/20). A plane hijacking like that will never happen again. Remember, before 9/11 people knew that if you get hijacked you do what the hijackers say. I guarantee that now everyone on the plane will get up and start kicking asses.

I think the only Democrat candidate that would have had any courage to him to tackle terrorism is Sen. Lieberman. He seemed to understand the threat (and yes his Jewish background probably has something to do with it).

Part of why we had to go into Iraq is because there was really no nearby country that could keep them in check (remember Saddam praised the Al-Qaeda attck on New York and Washington). The situation is not the same in N. Korea where China, South Korea, and Japan can keep Pyongyang in line. Thats why we don't have to go into N. Korea like we did Iraq. Plus, remember how everyone chastised Bush for putting N. Korea and Iraq in the "axis of evil". Well look at who the two biggest threats are. N. Korea and Iraq.

Personally, I don't want to see another skyscraper come down, a truck bomb, or mass poisoning before we can take action. Either way, vote for who you want but don't get mad at each other,

[spoo]

We can talk about Democrats track record for bashing video games, but is anyone a little concerned that the government has been obsessed with controlling almost everything we see and hear? Is one breast going to bring society down? Aren't there more important things to focus energy on?

I don't know about you guys, but I LIKE the first amendment. It has given us the chance to make all of these ill informed and half-assed poltical statements.
Amen!

[x0thedeadzone0x]

I second that Amen.
and to think, a 40-year old breast with her nipple pierced could bring us down.

[PsyClerk]

Richard Clarke was the same guy that was insisting that the next major wave of terrorism will be in the form of cyberspace attacks. In hindsight he looks like a ninny. But not if he comes forward and says "Oh yeah, Al Qaeda, Osama, I knew all about that but would they listen? Noooooo..."

[Quackzilla]

There were huge virus epidemics in the 90's.

That drove computer users into a mild state of panic, which kind of makes me laugh.

People putting MEDICINE into their computer, ha ha ha.

I would hate to be tech support, lol!

[PsyClerk]

Virus attacks weren't quite the scale Clarke had in mind. It was more along the lines of those 'doomdsday Y2K' scenarios, where whole systems/sectors would be shut down.

And don't mention putting medicine in a computer. We don't want to give anyone ideas.

[x0thedeadzone0x]

guhhhhhhh *pours pepto-bismol all over computer* :dunce:

[ZarathosNY]

If you got a memo titled "Bin Laden determined to attack the US", I don't think that signals you to take a month long vacation.

Dude,

We knew that "Bin laden was determined to strike in the US" since the early nineties. Consider this, If Bush bombed the shit out of Afghanistan to root out al-qaeda before 9-11, and 9-11 still happened, all you lefties would say that President Bush CAUSED 9-11.

So which is it? Did he not do enough, did he do too much? You lefties can't seem to decide.

Bush wouldn't have bombed the shit out of Afghanistan before 9-11, he was too concerned with missle defence. Clinton wasn't perfect, but he WAS doing something about terrorism. He increased counter-terrorism funding, he put Bin laden on the most wanted list, AND he signed an order ordering bin laden to be assasinated, something the Bush admin has denied until they were forced to hand over the papers to the 9-11 commission saying that Clinton did. Remember, when he fired missles to get bin laden, and missed him by 2 hours, Clinton was accuesed of "wagging the dog".

Also remember, the Cole bombing investigation was wrapped up in Feb 2001, and Bush was told Al-queda was behind it, and what did he do? Nothing.

[shadd01]

Someone else mentioned that the president isnt the only person we vote for in government. If we only took the time to educate ourselves (including myself) on our senators and congress men, this country could see some real change.

also i think educating yourself is pretty hard to do. Evey where you look theres biased media. I wish the media would just report facts, and not concetrate so much time on critisizing (sp) the party they are not in favor of.
--Shadd

[coffman]

Newsflash: If you are a Bush supporter "YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!" or "a moron". Source Quackzilla
*Sigh*

No, I was referring tto that slightly racist asshole who made the bullshit statement.

Btw, to all of you who have lied maliciously for attempted political gain, you are trying to hinder democracy. In effect, whether you like it or not, you are communists.

Yes, Kerry DID voted for a gas tax.
Yes, Bush DID gut clean air standards and reject the Kyoto treaty.

Lesser of two evils, people! Choose one!

The Kyoto treaty was a farce that would have put the US at the rest of the world's mercy. Us signing the Kyoto treaty would be like Bill gates signing an agreement with 10 people off the street to each throw 25% of their salary into a pot and divide it up "fairly". They'd all be snickering because the moron actually fell for it. The Kyoto treaty was designed so the US would bear the majority of the weight of its provisions. Bush voted against the Kyoto treaty, not clean air. Please people, educate yourselves.

If I came up with a "plan" to end hunger by feeding human remains to the poor, and you voted against it, it wouldn't be right to accuse you of failing to support an end to hunger. You have to look at the WHOLE picture before you pass judgment on why a politician makes the decisions they do. If you are uninformed, educate yourselves. If you hate Bush, get some legitimate FACTS and support them LOGICALLY. If you have no facts, then continue to spread your lies and half-truths, because that's all you have. But be aware that it's pretty sad for someone to commit their lives to creating a fantasy world in other people's minds so that their own political ideals can be achieved.

The Kyoto treaty a farce? Spoken like a true Republican! The fact is that the Kyoto treaty was set up to be fair. The countries that produce the most global warming gases would be expected to make the biggest cuts. The United States is by far the world's largest producer of greenhouse gases (somewhere around 25%), so it is our responsibility to make the largest cuts. Much of this was outlined in the EPA's state of the environment report, but the Bush administration forced the EPA to remove the global warming information. Obviously chosen1s you need to educate yourself a bit more. I suggest attending some of the Earth Day events that are taking place this week and next week.

[E-Z-B]

I don't know about you guys, but I LIKE the first amendment. It has given us the chance to make all of these ill informed and half-assed poltical statements.

http://www.dubyasworld.com/cheney-threat-constitution.jpg

[Valkryst]

chosen1s, you dolt I cracked up like 10 times reading it.

I was already anti-bush and I know its a biased email but 90% of it is true.

Even if 50% of it were true I'd still be an idiot to support him.

[chosen1s]

chosen1s, you dolt I cracked up like 10 times reading it.

I was already anti-bush and I know its a biased email but 90% of it is true.

Even if 50% of it were true I'd still be an idiot to support him.

It's biased, hateful, and makes dishonest insinuations. I don't find it funny. What I do find funny is how offended the "left" gets when anybody dares to accuse them of anything (Note accusations of Clinton's draft-dodging during his election campaigns or the Dixie Chicks in Germany) - "How dare you question somebody's patriotism!" But then they just think they can throw as many accusations against the wall as they want until somebody buys one of their accusations and accuse you of stepping on their freedom of speech if you try to make them accountable for their statements.

It is childish and immature. For a party that seeks to embrace "all people and all ideas", you sure are a hateful group of people who would rather defend a tyrant halfway across the world than embrace a political rival in your own country.

[chosen1s]

Even if 50% of it were true I'd still be an idiot to support him.

Let me guess. You'd be an idiot to support Bush but you'd be open-minded and tolerant to support France, Germany, and the dictator in Iraq who was bribing them.

I would say about half of your statement appears to be true.

[Quackzilla]

Even if 50% of it were true I'd still be an idiot to support him.

Let me guess. You'd be an idiot to support Bush but you'd be open-minded and tolerant to support France, Germany, and the dictator in Iraq who was bribing them.

I would say about half of your statement appears to be true.

You just accused everyone in France and Germany of being corrupt. Those are pretty big words there, young man.

Prove it, you shaq-fuTARD!

But Bush and Cheny did make a lot of money off of the oil wells in Iraq that were "liberated". (stolen without intentions to give them back, and all the oil that comes from them is stolen to, the Iraqi people don't receive a pennt)

[coffman]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

[Poodleman]

is that so quackzilla? please tell where you get this information!

[PsyClerk]

I find it amusing that the Democrats bring up military records at all considering their last president was a draft dodger.

[Rich]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/images/quiz.gif

[doraemonkerpal]

I find it amusing that the Democrats bring up military records at all considering their last president was a draft dodger.

LOL! :P

[Quackzilla]

Then we have assholes like the above poster (RichD1).

THERE REALLY WERE MANY WAR CRIMMES COMMITED IN VIETNAM!!!

Kerry would be unpatriotic if he covered it up like so many others.

[MaxBiaggi3]

I find it amusing that the Democrats bring up military records at all considering their last president was a draft dodger.

I'll find it amusing if the draft is reinstated and you get your sorry hide shot or blown up in Iraq as a result. You probably wouldn't be running your mouth so much if your father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother or sister got killed overseas for no good reason.

[Virestar]

bush got my vote in 00 and he'll get it again in 04

[joeposh]

lmao i like Bush... Kerry is just a puss. Did yall see the new shit on T.V. about how in Vietnam he got a scratch on his arm the size of a fingernail and demanded a purple heart.

Dunno why i like Bush but i do. Maybe because he's southern, or maybe because i'm Republican... dunno. But Kerry is definitely a Puss.

Please, anyone who accepts attack ad's as the gospel truth doesn't have the slightest concept of critical thinking. Kerry went off to war in vietnam, saved lives of fellow americans and was rewarded... while Bush phoned it in from the Alabama National Guard... and Kerry's the "puss"? I just don't see how that works.

[Rich]

Then we have assholes like the above poster (RichD1).

THERE REALLY WERE MANY WAR CRIMMES COMMITED IN VIETNAM!!!

Kerry would be unpatriotic if he covered it up like so many others.

Oh please. It's the nature of war; and it's 30+ years old.

[PsyClerk]

I'll find it amusing if the draft is reinstated and you get your sorry hide shot or blown up in Iraq as a result. You probably wouldn't be running your mouth so much if your father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother or sister got killed overseas for no good reason.

I believe I'm too old for the draft right now. Regardless, it's your Democrat friends that want the draft re-instated. I just today read about one of the few Republicans who supports that nonsense. Of course, the whole draft issue is more about an attempt to ignite class warfare more than issues with Iraq.

We won't get into the whole 'no good reason' arguments. If you already have that opinion, then you're far too simple to reason with.

[spoo]

Quackzilla are you a politician?
You act like one calling everybody names with no proof to back it up.
-Then we have assholes like the above poster (RichD1)
-Prove it, you shaq-fuTARD!
-YOU ARE THE DUMBEST shaq-fu ON THIS BOARD!!!
-moron.

[MaxBiaggi3]

I'll find it amusing if the draft is reinstated and you get your sorry hide shot or blown up in Iraq as a result. You probably wouldn't be running your mouth so much if your father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother or sister got killed overseas for no good reason.

I believe I'm too old for the draft right now. Regardless, it's your Democrat friends that want the draft re-instated. I just today read about one of the few Republicans who supports that nonsense. Of course, the whole draft issue is more about an attempt to ignite class warfare more than issues with Iraq.

We won't get into the whole 'no good reason' arguments. If you already have that opinion, then you're far too simple to reason with.

Why don't you break it down for all of us in the peanut gallery then if you've got some tremendous grasp of the justification for war and suffering in the middle east, Caption Obvious? Those of us who are "too simple to reason with" have the same vote in November's election that you do. Educate me, please.

[evilmax17]

I'll find it amusing if the draft is reinstated and you get your sorry hide shot or blown up in Iraq as a result. You probably wouldn't be running your mouth so much if your father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother or sister got killed overseas for no good reason.

I believe I'm too old for the draft right now. Regardless, it's your Democrat friends that want the draft re-instated. I just today read about one of the few Republicans who supports that nonsense. Of course, the whole draft issue is more about an attempt to ignite class warfare more than issues with Iraq.

We won't get into the whole 'no good reason' arguments. If you already have that opinion, then you're far too simple to reason with.

Far too simple to reason with? Because he believes that it wasn't worth the deaths of hundreds of soldiers to fight a futile "war on terror" that Saddam was never involved with in the first place? Did you sign up for the army to defend this concept that you (and obviously everyone else) believe in? To you, it sounds good on paper. "sure, freedom for all!" I don't see you risking your life to promote this, and in case you haven't noticed, they're currently worse off than before we got there. How about taking some god damn responsibility for your oppinions? Instead of letting everyone else do the dirty work for you?

[mcwilliams132]

Let's bring this back to a CHEAPASSGAMER theme.

If you like having more money in your pockets (or the pockets of your parents) to buy more games...Vote Republican - Tax Cuts! If you're truely a cheap ass you don't want your hard earned dollars going off to pay for someone else's lazy ass...YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR MONEY TO BUY MORE GAMES...

And don't give me the lame ass excuse of "tax cuts for the wealthy" schtick that ALL you numb-brain, know nothings spew. If you pay taxes...you get a tax cut...period. Don't pay taxes? No tax refund...if you don't pay in...you don't get back. The tax system isn't a hand-out system.

Vote Bush if you want more of your own money in your hands to buy more games!

Kerry want to take YOUR MONEY so he can go buy games for lazy asses that that don't work for it!

[Ikohn4ever]

To all those folk who claim kerry is going to take away your lovely violence in videogames, I would like to say how the religous right is trying to take away nudity. Such an uproar over a nipple, all thos conservatives in power act like its a bad thing. We are such a prudish country, and this aint helping. They are starting to go after free speech now and its really scary if you see whats happening to Stern right now its sad. They are picking on him while people like Oprah who looks more civil and is worth serious bank is allowed to do as she pleases. It is an American's right to not listen to Stern but with this current goverment they feel thats there problem and they are dealing with it. Lets not even begin to talk about Bush's war on baseball...no complaints when he ran a team and was getting paid for it now he needs an sensitive issue to touch on.

He should try to deal with terrorism and leave people's personal freedoms alone. If the new patriot act gets accepted get ready for chips to be inserted in your spine to know where you are at all times. He is turing this into the age of Big Brother, be very afraid.

Going off on a tangent, he has no right in hell to take away anyones right to marriage. I am not homosexual not that theres anything wrong with it but they should have every right as the next man. Trying to pass an amendment to prevent it is like the seperate but equal laws of the 50's and 60's. Just because it goes against his religous beliefs that homosexuals should be allowed to marry it should have no part in what actually happen. Even VP Dick's daughter is gay and he chooses to discriminate against his own flesh and blood. That is monstorous. What next arab americans' cant marry or maybe illegal aliens or maybe Jews. When you start taking one groups rights away there is a domino effect that no one knows where it will stop.

[Rich]

I'll always have empornium.us; he can do whatever he wants. :)

[E-Z-B]

If you like having more money in your pockets (or the pockets of your parents) to buy more games...Vote Republican - Tax Cuts!

You think you're getting a tax cut, but have you checked how much your state, local, and property taxes have gone up in the past year or two? More than likely, the tax cut offset that. In effect, there's really no such thing as "tax cuts" - more like a "reallocaton" of taxes. The states get burdened with less federal funding for schools and infrastructure, and as a result, they make up that difference by raising state taxes. "Tax cuts" are just a political tool to make someone look good, and to confuse the average citizen. Much like proposing a space program or wetlands protection act, then never mentioning it nor supporting it ever again. It's all for show.

[RedvsBlue]

I think I'm lost, what's the cheap ass deal in this thread?

[jdpimp]

I don't care who you vote for, but please, everybody just:

GO FUCΚIN VOTE!

Most of you won't, so this argument is useless to me.

[evilmax17]

I think I'm lost, what's the cheap ass deal in this thread?

Free "waste of time". YMMV.

[E-Z-B]

He should try to deal with terrorism and leave people's personal freedoms alone. If the new patriot act gets accepted get ready for chips to be inserted in your spine to know where you are at all times.

That's the greatest twist of all. Traditionally, the republican party has always been:

1) Privacy
2) For the government to stay out of your business
3) The smallest sized government necessary
4) Reduce federal spending, lower the budget, and thus, don't collect as many taxes from the citizens

Since January 2001, we have
1 & 2) The Patriot Act
3) The formation of Homeland Security and the possibility of creating a new intelligence department.
4) The largest federal spending in American history

Of course, America is brainwashed right now, so people will buy anything Dubya says.

[Cracka]

what policies of Kerry's do you who say you are voting for him like? what is your reason for voting for him? everything he says he's for, he's voted against. Everything he says he's against, he voted for.

[evilmax17]

Everyone here should go read 1984 by Orwell. Oh wait...it's banned in some places...

[E-Z-B]

what policies of Kerry's do you who say you are voting for him like? what is your reason for voting for him? everything he says he's for, he's voted against. Everything he says he's against, he voted for.

That statement sounds like pure propaganda from Gillespie (head of the RNC). A classic example of America being brainwashed.

One of many policies of Kerry's I like: providing tax incentives to companies that keep jobs in America instead of overseas.

[joeposh]

I think some of you need to move beyond the usual sticking points of the war, terrorism, and social programs. Alot of the things this administration is doing are damaging, not in their immediate effects, but in the effects they will have 10-20 years down the road.

The patriot act and other intiatives that this administration has been forcing through congress in the name of national security are already compromising our essential freedoms. Only a few weeks ago a court in New Orleans over turned the need to use search warrents on the basis of the patriot act. I have no problem with eliminating the communication barriers between the CIA/FBI/local law enforcement, but I don't think the personal freedoms that we're supposedly fighting for should be needlessly compromised.


and while the tax cuts may give a minor boost to the current generation, whose gonna be left holding the bag from this record deficit and mounting bills in iraq? Not my parents, but my future kids and I. As someone else mentioned, as a result of these federal tax cuts, local taxes have gone through the roof. State governments aren't getting federal dollars anymore, instead they have to raise property and sales taxes to compensate, and since you republicans seem to love keeping your hard earned money so much, I'd think that keeping down property taxes (which can be a huge burden after even a slight increase) would trump saving a few hundred/thousand dollars on your federal filings.

[spoo]

wetlands protection act, then never mentioning it nor supporting it ever again.
Bush just gave a speech about the wetlands protection act this morning at an Earth day event.

[Matrix2k3]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

[The Cheapest Ass Gamer]

My reason for voting for Kerry: I just can't trust Bush to make good decisions on the spot. Up until a month ago, I supported the war because Clinton thought Iraq had WMDs, but now I see the huge f00king mess we're in and I see the difference between the Dems' Iraq policy and the Republicans': Clinton didn't take control because he could see the consequences of doing so. Bush went crazy and took over without seeing all the consequences, and I can't support someone who doesn't think such vital things through enough. Kerry's courage during and after the Vietnam War (when he saved his fellow soldiers in an ambush, and then came home to speak out againt the war) has shown me that he is someone I can trust, at least more than Bush.

[evilmax17]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

So whats the alternative? Let's say you have Hitler and some other guy, and you know exactly what kind of president Hitler is? What are you to do if you don't want him for another 4 years, not vote at all? You cross your fingers, vote for the other guy, and hope he does a better job. This is common sense here...

[spoo]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

So whats the alternative? Let's say you have Hitler and some other guy, and you know exactly what kind of president Hitler is? What are you to do if you don't want him for another 4 years, not vote at all? You cross your fingers, vote for the other guy, and hope he does a better job. This is common sense here...
Are you comparing Bush to Hitler?
:?:

[evilmax17]

One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...

[Indiana]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

Why would you re-elect a president that has done a terrible job for the last four years? Yes Kerry MAY not do a good job but Bush WILL DO a BAD JOB on this country with another 4 years in office! No more liberties and more tax decreases for the wealthy.....

In 5-10 more years the Middle class will be taxed even heavier to pay for those tax cuts and riduculous wasteful spending.

[chosen1s]

Even if 50% of it were true I'd still be an idiot to support him.

Let me guess. You'd be an idiot to support Bush but you'd be open-minded and tolerant to support France, Germany, and the dictator in Iraq who was bribing them.

I would say about half of your statement appears to be true.

You just accused everyone in France and Germany of being corrupt. Those are pretty big words there, young man.

Prove it, you shaq-fuTARD!

But Bush and Cheny did make a lot of money off of the oil wells in Iraq that were "liberated". (stolen without intentions to give them back, and all the oil that comes from them is stolen to, the Iraqi people don't receive a pennt)

Uh, Ok, the French and German governments were involved in and/or knew about illegal trading with Iraq and allowed it to heppen - then tried to block the US invasion for motives that I will leave to your own imagination. This is pretty well documented. I'm sorry, but I am having trouble booking a trip for you to take directly to their embassy so you can meet with their officials and ask them for themselves.

Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".

[evilmax17]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

So whats the alternative? Let's say you have Hitler and some other guy, and you know exactly what kind of president Hitler is? What are you to do if you don't want him for another 4 years, not vote at all? You cross your fingers, vote for the other guy, and hope he does a better job. This is common sense here...
Are you comparing Bush to Hitler?
:?:

You missed my point entirely. I picked a historical figure that EVERYONE can agree was "bad" (i'm understating, i know, but i'm making a point here). You have candidate A who you KNOW will be bad (now this is Bush from my perspective, and that of many others). Then you have Kerry, who is the other guy. Somebody said that "voting for Kerry just because he's NOT Bush" was stupid, but this is my example for saying why it's NOT stupid. Because what else is a person to do if they don't support Bush?

[chosen1s]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"

[evilmax17]

Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".

LOL excuse me!? Are you saying that the media lets Democrats say ANYTHING at all!? Last time I checked, most television news stations (especially CNN) were owned by heavily conservative companys/peoples. Rupert Murdoc anyone? The majority of media in general is Conservative man, I thought that was a generally known fact? If you want a less biased take on the news, read BBC (like I do).

[tyecko]

Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky

[mcwilliams132]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

Why would you re-elect a president that has done a terrible job for the last four years? Yes Kerry MAY not do a good job but Bush WILL DO a BAD JOB on this country with another 4 years in office! No more liberties and more tax decreases for the wealthy.....

In 5-10 more years the Middle class will be taxed even heavier to pay for those tax cuts and riduculous wasteful spending.

and your source is....

[Ikohn4ever]

Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.

[mcwilliams132]

Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".

LOL excuse me!? Are you saying that the media lets Democrats say ANYTHING at all!? Last time I checked, most television news stations (especially CNN) were owned by heavily conservative companys/peoples. Rupert Murdoc anyone? The majority of media in general is Conservative man, I thought that was a generally known fact? If you want a less biased take on the news, read BBC (like I do).

uhm...Rupert Murdoc owns News Corp...which owns Fox News...CNN is as liberal as they come (hello, Ted Turnner).

[Southberm]

I think that voting for Kerry just because you don't want Bush to win is really stupid. It's not a good idea to just vote for someone because you don't like the other guy, how do YOU know that Kerry is going to be any better. Personally I have seen no valid reasons for voting for Kerry other than ousting Bush, and IMO that is a bad reason to choose a new leader for a country.

So whats the alternative? Let's say you have Hitler and some other guy, and you know exactly what kind of president Hitler is? What are you to do if you don't want him for another 4 years, not vote at all? You cross your fingers, vote for the other guy, and hope he does a better job. This is common sense here...
Are you comparing Bush to Hitler?
:?:

You missed my point entirely. I picked a historical figure that EVERYONE can agree was "bad" (i'm understating, i know, but i'm making a point here). You have candidate A who you KNOW will be bad (now this is Bush from my perspective, and that of many others). Then you have Kerry, who is the other guy. Somebody said that "voting for Kerry just because he's NOT Bush" was stupid, but this is my example for saying why it's NOT stupid. Because what else is a person to do if they don't support Bush?
This is ironic b/c its coming from a jew but hitler was not a BAD leader, meaning unsuccessful. He was very successful(unlike bush), the only problem is that he was a crazy bastrard who was sicotic and resorted to murder to show his views of certain people.

[evilmax17]

This is ironic b/c its coming from a jew but hitler was not a BAD leader, meaning unsuccessful. He was very successful(unlike bush), the only problem is that he was a crazy bastrard who was sicotic and resorted to murder to show his views of certain people.

And if he had been president for the past 4 years and was up for reelection, would you vote for him? Or would you vote against him?

[Ikohn4ever]

lets not start talkin about Hitler cause thats a whole new can of worms to deal with

[Southberm]

The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?!

[mcwilliams132]

Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.

Once again...your sources?

Who the f^ck cares what other countries think of us. We are THE lone superpower of this planet. We feed the world. We send billions of aid to countries all over the world when we don't have ot (billions to Africa to fight aids - rebuilding afgahnistan(sp), etc..). Some times to get the job done...you have to do it yourself and go it alone or with the support of few others. So screw the notion that everyone has to like you.

As far as the patriot act...don't be a terrorist. That's all I have to say. Keep your nose clean.

[evilmax17]

The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?!

You're...missing...the...POINT! FUCKING FORGET HITLER! Let's say Charles Manson has been president for 4 years. He's up for reelection. You DON'T WANT TO ELECT MANSON AGAIN. SO WHAT DO YOU DO. YOU VOTE FOR THE OTHER GUY...SO MANSON'S CHANCES OF WINNING ARE SLIMMER! whats so fucking hard to see about this point!? Hitler was just an example of somebody you wouldn't want to reelect! Christ!

[Southberm]

The People had no choice but to vote for him. They all feared him b/c you Either voted for a sicotic bastard or got shot...............hm.............?!

You're...missing...the...POINT! shaq-fuing FORGET HITLER! Let's say Charles Manson has been president for 4 years. He's up for reelection. You DON'T WANT TO ELECT MANSON AGAIN. SO WHAT DO YOU DO. YOU VOTE FOR THE OTHER GUY...SO MANSON'S CHANCES OF WINNING ARE SLIMMER! whats so shaq-fuing hard to see about this point!? Hitler was just an example of somebody you wouldn't want to reelect! Christ!
No I got the point i just had nothing better to do than clear that hitler thing up.

[PsyClerk]

Have some responsibility for my opinions? Fark you and your damn high horse. I have several close friends in the military. One served in the first Gulf War and is headed back to Iraq. Another served in Korea, then Iraq, and is considering a civilian job in South Korea now. Several others are either in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. I know exactly the toll that military actions take. Number of them that have said 'we shouldn't be in Iraq, it's wrong'? Zero.

I'm not going to trot out all the arguments that have been tread over and over again in these same posts on this same board. What's the point? I won't waste my time.

I guess I don't have a responsible opinion like "anyone but Bush", which is really really responsible. If by responsible, you mean 'completely idiotic and going against the democratic ideal.' Hey, ask a certain senator about responsible opinions. You might know him...his opinion varies wildly depending on who he's talking to or what time of day it is.

If you vote 'anyone but Bush', please vote JimmieMac. He's not Bush, and he has the bonus attribute of probably making Clinton look like a saint. There would be no 'breaking scandals' in the White House, because when JimmieMac is banging some whore in the Oval Office, he'll be broadcasting it live over webcam at whitehouse.gov.

Scrubking, please bring your army of smilies to this post and shoot me.

[Cracka]

CNN leans more towards the Democratic side biotch.

and you cant fucking compare Bush to Hitler you asshole. Thats not even a valid comparison. Hitler wanted world domination and wanted all of the Jews dead, and he massacred many people. Damn you are retarded.

So let me summarize y'alls reasons for voting for Kerry:
1)he's not Bush
2)he was in the war and saved a fellow soldier from an ambush

shit i should've known about these hardcore facts before I decided to side with Bush.

You compare Bush to Hitler, but i according to your standards, you would vote Hitler into office. Hitler wasnt psycho until after he was voted into office, and he's definitely not George Bush, so damn i guess you would vote for him?

If anyone besides Bush had to win, it should be *Dean*. But of course after he got excited on Tv, people stopped supporting him, and started supporting Kerry.

Kerry likes to use the fact that he served in Vietnam and the fact that Bush was in the National guard instead of going to Vietnam as a selling point in his campaign, but he does mention too often that after coming back from Vietnam he went and protested war. If you were against the war, dont go around bragging that you were in it. Kerry is one of the biggest hipocrits i've ever seen.

I'm not seeing what all these "terrible things" that bush has done are. Lets see..
1)he began the war on terror. Nothing wrong with that.
2)we invaded Afghanistan and took out the taliban government who had been harboring Al Quada(sp) and was supporting them.
3)we attacked Iraq. We had intelligence not only saying that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction, but also linked them to Al Quada(sp). We have no evidence that they did not have weapons of mass destruction. We believe they could have exported many of their weapons to a couple of their neighboring countries. We tried sending in the weapons inspectors and Saddam kept stalling, which would have given him plenty of time to ship weapons out. If you dont remember, we did give him a deadline to hand over his WMD's and we told him if he didnt hand them over we'd attack. Also when we went to the UN to get approval to attack, Germany and France kept stalling. We later found out that Saddam had been giving bribes to these 2 nations. This would have given him even more time to export weapons.

Who was the man running for re-election when Hitler first ran for presidency? Its kinda funny, everyone voted for Hitler because the economy was doing bad and Hitler said that he would bring back their good economy. I'm sure the Germans were thinking "Man i'll vote for anyone who isnt (insert the president running against Hitler)." Look how that turned out...

[Ikohn4ever]

Hey man bush has done a great job in office. I don't think many people couldve handled 9/11 much better than he did or handle to war with Iraq as well as he did. And he also found Saddam. Sure maybe hes done some bad things but the economys on its way up again and I didnt see any major reasons to get him out of office such as when Clinton got head from Lewinsky


Dude he had nothing to do with the finding of Sadaam, Bush was probably on vacation at the time. First off Bush endorsed a smear campaign against, Kerry, MC Cain and Gore. He attacks war heroes when his daddy bought him out of the military. Somebody died in his place. He has destroyed the goodwill from other nations twice, once when he took office and then again after 9/11. Ohh yeah he thinks he is some sort of pilot cause he was flown in on an air craft carrier. Plus he hates basic American freedoms ala patriot act. Thats all good enough for me.

Once again...your sources?

Who the f^ck cares what other countries think of us. We are THE lone superpower of this planet. We feed the world. We send billions of aid to countries all over the world when we don't have ot (billions to Africa to fight aids - rebuilding afgahnistan(sp), etc..). Some times to get the job done...you have to do it yourself and go it alone or with the support of few others. So screw the notion that everyone has to like you.

As far as the patriot act...don't be a terrorist. That's all I have to say. Keep your nose clean.

Alright here are some sources for ya "The tone of the gathering changed after a woman in the audience told McCain that her 13-year-old son was told that the Arizona senator is a "liar and a cheat," during a telephone "push poll" conducted the night before. "http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/02/10/campaign.wrap/

Nobody can find evidence of Bush actually serving in Alabama. Not one officer could verify him. "A review of Bush's military records shows that Bush enjoyed preferential treatment as the son of a then-congressman, when he walked into a Texas Guard unit in Houston two weeks before his 1968 graduation from Yale and was moved to the top of a long waiting list.

It was an era when service in the Guard was a coveted assignment, often associated with efforts to avoid active duty in Vietnam. Bush was accepted for pilot training after having scored only 25 percent on the pilot's aptitude test, the lowest acceptable grade.

In 2000, the Boston Globe examined a period from May 1972 to May 1973 and found no record that Bush performed any Guard duties, either in Alabama or Houston, although he was still enlisted.

According to military records obtained by The Washington Post, Bush first requested and received permission in May 1972 to be transferred to the Alabama National Guard so he could work on a U.S. Senate campaign. After he was in Alabama, he received notice from the Guard personnel center that he was "ineligible" for the Air Reserve Squadron he requested.

In August 1972, Bush was suspended from flying because he failed to complete an annual medical exam. A month later, Bush requested to be assigned to a different unit in Alabama and was approved. Although he was required to attend periodic drills in Alabama, there is no official record in his file that he did.

According to the records, Bush had been instructed to report to William Turnipseed, an officer in the Montgomery unit. "Had he reported in, I would have had some recall and I do not," Turnipseed, a retired brigadier general, told the Globe in 2000. "I had been in Texas, done my flight training there. If we had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7372-2004Feb2?language=printer)

Just because I am not a terrorist does not mean I am not effected by the Patriot Act. Anti-war sediment or giving money to organizations that are anti-war could lead u into trouble. There are people that no one has seen since they have been taken away. No trial, no jury, just imprisonment, thats some really good democracy

[evilmax17]

Ugh, these people are so antsy to jump on a comparison that wasn't even made. I picked Hitler because he's generally considdered "bad", and most people wouldn't elect him had he already been president for 4 years. No, I would not reelect Hitler, where did you find that? I'm not comparing Hitler to Bush in any way OTHER than I wouldn't want either of them as president of our country. Seriously, this isn't hard to understand. Stop getting so fired up. Did I compare policy or actions ANYWHERE in my posts? No. I said that I (and I assume many others) wouldn't want Hitler as a president (especially if he had already been president for 4 years).

To PsyClerk: If I voted for JimmieMac instead of Kerry, that would give Bush a slight advantage. Look at the Math. Lets say I'm going to vote, and I'm ONLY one of 2 people who gets to vote (stay with me all of you people that can't follow EXAMPLES). Here's the tally before i vote.

Bush: 0, Kerry: 0, JimmyMac: 0

Ok, now if I vote for Jimmy and the other dude votes for Bush, who wins? Bush. We'll assume that JimmyMac is essentially a "throw away" vote, and that it wouldn't be a tie. However, If I vote for kerry (we'll assume that this isn't a "throw away"), It becomes a tie. Come on man, I know you're smart enough to see this, right? Thus, if I honestly don't want Bush in a second term, the SMARTEST thing that I should do is vote Kerry. Do you see the math/logic?

[Ikohn4ever]

uh Cracka that was dean who got excited on TV

And the only reason that Afghanistan went so quick was because of Clinton's army. Bush's budget did not effect the military till after the Afghaniy conflict. But I dont hear anyone complaining about that.

Thats some bad logic saying that "We have no evidence that they did not have weapons of mass destruction". I have no evidence that u dont have WMD so we should attack you to?

Actually Hitler was never the president. If you looked up the facts you would have known that President von Hindenburg called on Hitler to form a new government and to become the chancellor of Germany. Then "Hitler called for von Hindenburg to sign an emergency decree "for the protection of the people and the state."

The emergency decree canceled all individual and civil rights, placing power in the hands of Hitler and his party. It became illegal for Germans to express their opinions freely, or to assemble to hear political speeches or for any other reason. And the decree made it legal for Hitler and his Brownshirts to control what was published in newspapers or broadcast as news over the radio; to open mail, read telegrams, and listen in on telephone conversations; to search houses without warning; to confiscate personal property; and to rule by dictatorship in any of the states of Germany, whenever Hitler thought it necessary" http://www.rossel.net/Holocaust01.htm

Sounds very similar to the patriot act to me, the censoring of tv, emergency act to lose rights and giving them to the government. Getting a feeling of Deja Vu

[PsyClerk]

blah blah blah words words etc

My mistake. Thought you could tell it was a joke. Won't happen again, promise.

/still waiting on the shooting

[joeposh]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"

How can this administration criticize anyone for not laying it on the table though? They're the most secretive administration since Nixon, they refuse to declassify memos and briefings that legally should be avliable to the public under the freedom of information act.

Every newsconference and speech is rehersed for days in advance and the journalists asking the questions are handpicked. They withhold pictures of soldiers funerals/caskets to avoid bad poll numbers. They refuse to admit mistakes... ever... they just distribute the blame elsewhere (FBI or CIA for the most part) or pretend that no mistake was made to begin with, even in the most obvious blunders. I dunno about you, but I'd rather have someone in office that can admit when he's made a mistake and change positions on an issue than someone who is so stubborn that he maintains his position no matter what the reality of the situation may be.

[Mr. Anderson]

Why must you people make these political threads? It's just he-said-she-said until people get bored and move on. It's not even worth it.

[Quackzilla]

Oh please. It's the nature of war; and it's 30+ years old.

The people that died still matter.
The truth is still out there, nobody can cover it up.

The Vietnam war crimes WILL be in history books, and then everyone will know.


Osama bin Ladin organized the deaths of thousands.
Thats the nature of war, isn't?
So he shouldn't be punished, right?

A soldier shoots a 6 year old girl in the face 30 years ago, should he be punished?

Think about it.

___
Also, if one knows where to look, all information is free. Not legal, not easy, nor even safe, but free.

[Quackzilla]

Everyone here should go read 1984 by Orwell. Oh wait...it's banned in some places...

That book is cool!
If you take it to school and show it to people you get a lot of days off!

[alongx]

Why must you people make these political threads? It's just he-said-she-said until people get bored and move on. It's not even worth it.

I agree. When I see threads like this, it almost makes me wish that Al Gore hadn't invented the internet all those years ago.

[mcwilliams132]

One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html

[PsyClerk]

Hey, let's not muddy the water with facts! We have standards you know...

[evilmax17]

One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html

Uh, homie? My whole family works in the biz. It's often the case that whole departments will be comprised completely of foreigners, with an american overseeing things. Most of it DOES goes on overseas though, but ponder this. If this Outsourcing isn't a threat, then why did Northeastern University (one of the world's most prominant Co-op schools) have it's highest unemployed numbers in the last few years, in CS. Throughout it's 5 year program, companies take on students to work "in the field" to gain experience, yet the unemployment rate for students in these "co-op periods" was at its highest within the past years. More importantly, many of the CS majors who graduated within the past 3 years didn't move on to businesses and computer companies, but rather low-paying "temp" jobs, for the shear fact that there was nothing available. If it's not such a threat, then why didn't these people get jobs?

[ave1]

Some evidence of GW's daddy and the Reagan admin giving are favorite Iraqi dictator some presents

"According to a Senate Report of 1994 {1}: From 1985, if not
earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological
materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers
pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department
of Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow
and agonizing deaths, were:
Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs,
brain, spinal cord and heart.
Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major
organs.
Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria
causing systemic illness.
Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.
Also, Escherichia Coli (E.Coli); genetic materials; human
and bacterial DNA.
Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped
to Iraq during the 1980s. The Senate Report pointed out:
"These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and
were capable of reproduction."
"It was later learned," the committee revealed, "that these
microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to
those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the
Iraqi biological warfare program."
These exports continued to at least November 28, 1989 despite
the fact that Iraq had been reported to be engaging in chemical
warfare and possibly biological warfare against Iranians, Kurds,
and Shiites since the early 80s.
During the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-88, the United States gave
military aid and intelligence information to both sides, hoping
that each would inflict severe damage on the other. (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/usvsiraq.htm)

here's another lil didy "He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region" (http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1991/C231.html"

Looks like alot of heresay to me. The first part admits that it was "private American suppliers" that had shipped in the makings for some WMD components, but it offers no substantial evidence that our government was responsible for ordering those items. . .

All I'm seeing here is a report obviously written by people who have an agenda (see "chilling accounts of the cozy relationship. . ."), to make a Republican administration look bad.

BTW, I wouldn't trust the mainstream press to tell me the sky's blue, cause it's probably grey, cloudy, and rainy.

Steve

[kaw]

One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html

I used to sing this tune. "Outsourcing is good for the US." "We import more jobs than we export." Blah, blah, blah. Now I'm training my Brazilian replacements. I have friends that are training their Indian, Chinese, and Belarusian replacements. This country is being sold off at mach speed, and no studies or journals have the statistics or numbers yet to show just how bad it really is. I walk down the hallways at work and one out of two people is a new face from a foreign land. Once it happens to you or someone close to you you'll change your tune pretty damn quick.

[bmulligan]

obvously they've been paying you too much money. Go find a new job and quit your bitching.

[kaw]

obvously they've been paying you too much money. Go find a new job and quit your bitching.


Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

[Valkryst]

"It is childish and immature. For a party that seeks to embrace "all people and all ideas", you sure are a hateful group of people who would rather defend a tyrant halfway across the world than embrace a political rival in your own country. "

Who said I was part of a group?!?

I'd much rather have an independant financed by his own money (no private investors) as president then a repub or demo.

But as it stands now, no independant is going to win.

So you have to go to the lesser of two evils: John Kerry.

[danny-o]

It was already obvious that he would serve only one term because of the way he was elected. No matter what happened.

[bmulligan]

Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.

[kram]

I Love Bush!! He handled the war in Iraq like a true hero and all the recent speculations are nothing but democratic lies trying to take hold of the Whitehouse. And Condaleezza Rice (sp?) told the whole truth that Bush did NOT know about 9/11 beforehand. Go Bush!

[mcwilliams132]

One of the reasons I'm voting for Kerry, like somebody else said, is because he is adamantly against Outsourcing. I'm a CS major in college, and that's where it hits the hardest. I can't believe that Bush thinks its a good idea to put thousands of Americans out of a job. How is that good for our economy in any way? It lets big businesses save some money, like they need it...

Outsourcing, marfsourcing...

Read on...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117820,00.html

Uh, homie? My whole family works in the biz. It's often the case that whole departments will be comprised completely of foreigners, with an american overseeing things. Most of it DOES goes on overseas though, but ponder this. If this Outsourcing isn't a threat, then why did Northeastern University (one of the world's most prominant Co-op schools) have it's highest unemployed numbers in the last few years, in CS. Throughout it's 5 year program, companies take on students to work "in the field" to gain experience, yet the unemployment rate for students in these "co-op periods" was at its highest within the past years. More importantly, many of the CS majors who graduated within the past 3 years didn't move on to businesses and computer companies, but rather low-paying "temp" jobs, for the shear fact that there was nothing available. If it's not such a threat, then why didn't these people get jobs?

Because we live in a capitalistic society...that's why. Not everyone is guarunteed a job - if you want job security...move to a socialistic country but be prepared to pay well over 1/2 your income to the government for taxes so you can pay for everyone else's job security. Government cannot create wealth or jobs. It can play a small role but that's it.

I work in "the biz" too and have great job security - and I didn't go to school for it. Isn't capitalism great!

[PsyClerk]

The reason there is a problem with IT/Computer jobs is because we're still feeling effects of the dot com bubble a few years ago. So many people saw all the money that was thrown at dot coms and IT people, and those people decided to join in. The problem is not lack of IT jobs, instead it's too many people competing for those jobs.

And recent experience (as in, the past year or so) has shown that there is another problem in IT...education. Any schmoe can go get certification now. They pay the school, and the school will almost never deny them certification as long they show up for class. I've seen so many idiots who don't know the first thing about the job they are applying for. True story: at my last job, we had a guy apply for work as a computer tech. In the interview, the employer mentioned all the network business we handled and the guy, really and truly, said "Network? What's that?"

[mcwilliams132]

Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.

amen

[E-Z-B]

Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.

I think I'm missing something here. If you invested 4+ years of your life, and probably about over $60,000 to get an education in CS, how is that having something "handed to you"? After all that blood and sweat for a degree, wouldn't you expect opportunities to use that degree? Am I now expecting too much to want to get a job in my field that I trained for, or am I just whinning, and should spend another 4+ years in a new field that will likely disappear under the Republican control.

What happens when ALL jobs but retail and healthcare are sent overseas? Say all defense, satellite, optics, hardware, construction, manufacturing, steel, systems work, ... EVERYTHING but wal-mart and restaurants. The government now faces a shrinking tax base and America suffers.

I think it's time we outsourced the president's job.

[chosen1s]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"

How can this administration criticize anyone for not laying it on the table though? They're the most secretive administration since Nixon, they refuse to declassify memos and briefings that legally should be avliable to the public under the freedom of information act.

Every newsconference and speech is rehersed for days in advance and the journalists asking the questions are handpicked. They withhold pictures of soldiers funerals/caskets to avoid bad poll numbers. They refuse to admit mistakes... ever... they just distribute the blame elsewhere (FBI or CIA for the most part) or pretend that no mistake was made to begin with, even in the most obvious blunders. I dunno about you, but I'd rather have someone in office that can admit when he's made a mistake and change positions on an issue than someone who is so stubborn that he maintains his position no matter what the reality of the situation may be.

Um, I guess it was Bush then who wrote the story about the records that Kerry claimed were available not being available? You're blaming Bush for the results of what Kerry did to himself, and you have already conceded my point. The administration didn't have anything to do with this, it was led by a reporter who was checking facts.

You can make as many excuses as you want for Kerry's flip-flopping. Clearly you will accept any actions by the man regardless of how disconcerting they are and use the excuse that "at least it's different than what the Bush administration is doing". If Bush couldn't seem to make up his mind about anything, I don't think you would be so quick to attribute it to "honesty" and "non-prepared speeches". At least be intellectually honest with yourself and admit that you have already made up your mind who you like and who you hate and you are searching for ways to make the facts support your feelings rather than allowing facts to shape your decisions.

[ZarathosNY]

Now, can YOU prove what you say about Bush/Cheny and the oil wells in Iraq? This just proves my point about Democrats. The media allows them to spew their accusations without following up on them. This whole "they did it for the oil" thing was disproved long ago, but the media did a terrible job on following up on it. They spent hours of news time covering the accusations, then about 5 minutes on the "Oops, looks like it isn't true".

LOL excuse me!? Are you saying that the media lets Democrats say ANYTHING at all!? Last time I checked, most television news stations (especially CNN) were owned by heavily conservative companys/peoples. Rupert Murdoc anyone? The majority of media in general is Conservative man, I thought that was a generally known fact? If you want a less biased take on the news, read BBC (like I do).


TEd Turner doesn't own CNN, he sold it a while ago

uhm...Rupert Murdoc owns News Corp...which owns Fox News...CNN is as liberal as they come (hello, Ted Turnner).

[ZarathosNY]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"


The answer is Kerry is hiding nothing since he released everything, which is more than Bush has done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4790712/

[E-Z-B]

I find it amusing that the Republicans were calling foul when the Democrats were accusing Bush of dodging the draft by entering the national guard and possibly not serving all of his time, yet they feel it is ok to question whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts in Vietnam. This cartoon sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/04/22/mitchell/index.html

The problem with Kerry's purple heart is not whether or not he "deserved" it, the problem is that he claimed several times that the records are all available to the public. Then, when a reporter went to do some fact-checking (believe it or not, he actually wanted to check for facts) he found that the records are sealed and not available.

The question is "What is Kerry hiding and why did he lie?" -- Not "is the purple heart ligitimate?"


The answer is Kerry is hiding nothing since he released everything, which is more than Bush has done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4790712/

Which is the problem that Gillespie, head of the RNC is running into. He saw a dead end with that character assassination attempt, so now it's only a matter of time until he scrutinizes Kerry's wife's tax returns over the past few years in hopes of making him look bad. They will stop at nothing because Bush has such a lousy record, so they need to go down this path instead.

[E-Z-B]

[quote=joeposh]You can make as many excuses as you want for Kerry's flip-flopping.

More propaganda from the RNC. :roll:

So let's go with stubborn leadership instead, no compromise, no nothing. That's the texas way - "my way or the highway".

[italianstallion]

Heres is a fact, all political figures are crooded, lying, money grubing, theifs. I dont feel safe voting for anyone of them, cuz they all are in it for the power/money. Power over money because presidents really dont make that much compared to what they already have.

[A7las]

well, there was no way that i was going to read through the 12 pages of this topic so i read the first couple then moved on to the last couple, so i am not sure if some of this was addressed.

first off, how anyone can support or even defend outsoursing just seems crazy to me. you are supporting the destruction of american lives simply for the benefit of a company and its shareholders. i love it when people say they love this country and its people then turn around and either support outsourcing or buy shit that was once made by americans and now made by people in sri lanka. and please don't give me the crap about people going out and finding new trades, its bullshit. you can try and many may succeed, but they will never get back to the standard of living that they once had. and the funny thing about this is that they in turn will not have the purchasing power that they once did and they will continue to have a negative effect on the economy because they can no longer buy anything!

second, how can anyone vote for bush and his administration after they have lied, time and time again, to the american public. and you bush pundits can not even deny it because it can be seen in their public addresses before and after the war in iraq. i think this should be a require read for EVERYONE.
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
you can see how the bush administration went through its stages for getting the american public behind the march to war and duping congress into voting for war. and the great things is that you blind republican supporters can not even deny the facts that this site lays out because it uses all public records, no implying of what the bush administration did or did not do behind closed doors, just want they said to the american public and there is no way anyone can argue with it. so take your "bush is an ok guy" shit and shove it up your BLIND STUPID and IGNORANT ASS. if you had any intelligence whatsoever you could never support bush. it is only because you deny reason or are just too plain stupid.

so yea, kind of a long way of saying, bush is a fuckass, and kerry in 04.

[Medium_Pimpin]

Let's bring this back to a CHEAPASSGAMER theme.

If you like having more money in your pockets (or the pockets of your parents) to buy more games...Vote Republican - Tax Cuts! If you're truely a cheap ass you don't want your hard earned dollars going off to pay for someone else's lazy ass...YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR MONEY TO BUY MORE GAMES...

And don't give me the lame ass excuse of "tax cuts for the wealthy" schtick that ALL you numb-brain, know nothings spew. If you pay taxes...you get a tax cut...period. Don't pay taxes? No tax refund...if you don't pay in...you don't get back. The tax system isn't a hand-out system.

Vote Bush if you want more of your own money in your hands to buy more games!

Kerry want to take YOUR MONEY so he can go buy games for lazy asses that that don't work for it!


We get a $300 tax cut, and go from a budget surplus to a 500+ Billion Debt a year (and growing) to pass along to our kids. Sounds like a fair trade to me. That money isnt real anyways.


And seriously folks: John Ashcroft? I wouldnt give this guy the time of day, he should be on a street corner somewhere begging for change.

[jho]

While I completely sympathize with people who lose their jobs due to outsourcing, everyone in the country also benefits from cheaper prices and goods because of it. You shouldn't forget that - the benefits are spread out across the entire population while the costs are concentrated among the relatively few in the industry who lose their jobs.

When you start trying to control the economy through tariffs/quotas and the like - you really screw up the economy. America is where it is because it has had freer markets than other countries.

[kaw]

Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.

For the record, I have a new job. I was able to find a new job shortly after I was told to start looking for one. But who's to say that won't be outsourced next? I would like a little job security, I would take a 25% pay cut If they would tell me I have a job for the next ten years. No one "owes" me anything, and I don't believe I ever said they did. However, it does piss me off that corporate America is screwing hard working people so the exectives can get a hefty bonus at the end of the year. I don't expect anything to be handed to me, but I expect to keep a job when my performance ratings have been exceptional, and my customers sing my praises. Is that too much to ask?

[kaw]

Shit, you're right. How foolish of me to expect to get paid reasonably for sought after technical skills! How foolish of me to worry that they're selling this country off, and we now have to compete for jobs on a global scale with third world countries where people work for peanuts. I'll go find a new job, and watch it go overseas too! And I'll watch it happen again, again, and again, because Goddammit I'm an American, and how dare I question anything a leader does. I'll just sit idly by, and never feel secure about my career, and if my family will have a roof over their heads. Thanks for opening my eyes, Jackass.

Lovely. If you spent more time looking for a new job or learning a new skill instead of bitching about how you're being screwed, you may have found one already. You should stop playing videogames and put your free time to some better use. This IS america, dumbass, nobody OWES you anything. Like I said, quit your bitching and DO something about it.

America used to be the country of the strong, the adaptable, the initiate. Now it's a country of whiney ass bitches who think someone owes them a job just because they went to school to learn something. When someone else gets their job they complain and want to pass a law instead of change themselves to be more appealing to the market.

You think I'm a jackass for telling you about reality? Fine, you're right, I AM a jackass, but you're pathetic. You'd rather live in that dreamworld of yours where life is perfect and everything is handed to you.

Keep dreaming buddy, something will come along and save you. Try prayer. Some people actually think it works too.

I think I'm missing something here. If you invested 4+ years of your life, and probably about over $60,000 to get an education in CS, how is that having something "handed to you"? After all that blood and sweat for a degree, wouldn't you expect opportunities to use that degree? Am I now expecting too much to want to get a job in my field that I trained for, or am I just whinning, and should spend another 4+ years in a new field that will likely disappear under the Republican control.

What happens when ALL jobs but retail and healthcare are sent overseas? Say all defense, satellite, optics, hardware, construction, manufacturing, steel, systems work, ... EVERYTHING but wal-mart and restaurants. The government now faces a shrinking tax base and America suffers.

I think it's time we outsourced the president's job.

amen

[Indiana]

It was already obvious that he would serve only one term because of the way he was elected. No matter what happened.

What the gift of Florida from his brother? :D

I will not be suprised if Bush wins...I do not want him to win but he has more money to finance his campaign than anyone ever.

[Indiana]

Start oursourcing all VP and CEO jobs and see how quickly the Republican tune changes.

Why pay an American CEO 50 Million a year. I'm sure we can get someone from India or China to do the job for $100,000

[atariz28]

George W has been a great president during a hard time for our country. I whole heartedly support him and his administration. He will be getting my vote in November.

[PsyClerk]

I think I'm missing something here. If you invested 4+ years of your life, and probably about over $60,000 to get an education in CS, how is that having something "handed to you"? After all that blood and sweat for a degree, wouldn't you expect opportunities to use that degree? Am I now expecting too much to want to get a job in my field that I trained for, or am I just whinning, and should spend another 4+ years in a new field that will likely disappear under the Republican control.

What happens when ALL jobs but retail and healthcare are sent overseas? Say all defense, satellite, optics, hardware, construction, manufacturing, steel, systems work, ... EVERYTHING but wal-mart and restaurants. The government now faces a shrinking tax base and America suffers.

I think it's time we outsourced the president's job.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Am I expecting too much for you to investigate whether or not there will be a job market requiring whatever skills you're learning by the time you're finished? Why do you think you see so many people who have jobs in areas that have ZERO relation to what they went to school for? Adaptability means a lot in a free market, especially where employment is concerned.