XBOX 360 Big Letdown?

[jkam]

I don't own an XBOX and I was thinking if the XBOX 360 has backward compatibility I would pick one up. After seeing the system and what it has to offer I think I'm going to pass. Thoughts?

[WildWop]

I don't own an XBOX and I was thinking if the XBOX 360 has backward compatibility I would pick one up. After seeing the system and what it has to offer I think I'm going to pass. Thoughts?


You're not going by MTV right? God help you if you are.

[Ledhed]

After seeing the system and what it has to offer I think I'm going to pass. Thoughts?

You didn't see anything. The MTV thing was a joke, and basing your judgement of the system around it is on a plane of ignorance that I can't comprehend.

Noone knows the meaty details like price and BWC yet. Wait until after E3 to make these kind of assessments. Jesus...

[epobirs]

You should reserve judgement until you seen the product in action first hand. Any decision for or against would be foolish otherwise, unless you have the kind of cash to throw around on a whim.

[PsyClerk]

You should reserve judgement until you seen the product in action first hand.

Where's the fun in that? Besides, Nintendo says I shouldn't buy the 360 and that's all I need to know! LOLZORS!

[CoffeeEdge]

Not interested in Xbox, it's games, or it's successor.

I'm a Revolutionary. :D

[basketkase543]

You didn't see anything. The MTV thing was a joke, and basing your judgement of the system around it is on a plane of ignorance that I can't comprehend. .

Why is it ignorant if Microsoft ran the event and has been hyping it up for months? They chose the footage and ultimately decided how much to show for the event and if it fell way below everyone's standards than there is no ignorance in judging them and the xbox 360.

[jkam]

I'm not going by MTV...just the info we have been given up until this point. I know it is pretty early to pass judgement but the system seems like an XBOX with an IPOD design and wireless controllers. The online marketplace seems like an excuse to get people to spend their money. Oh yeah the graphics looked nice.

[Viva Las Vegas]

Microsoft made the program, you'd think they'd do a better job of selling the Xbox 360. Yeah MTV sucks, so did the 360's showing. Even the movies that have been up on the internet don't have wow factor at all. I haven't seen one that really looks much better than an Xbox 1 game. I know they will, but you'd think they would show that up front.

[Ledhed]

Why is it ignorant if Microsoft ran the event and has been hyping it up for months? They chose the footage and ultimately decided how much to show for the event and if it fell way below everyone's standards than there is no ignorance in judging them and the xbox 360.

If, during the precedings, they gave any mention to the important info (price, HD options, etc.), then I could understand establishing an opinion at this point. But what jkam (a person known for his fanboy tendencies) is suggesting is like leaving a concert because the opening act sucked.

[howlinmad]

Where's the fun in that? Besides, Nintendo says I shouldn't buy the 360 and that's all I need to know! LOLZORS!



No doubt. What are you saying that you saw? You aren't getting it because it has a green ring? Changable faceplates? Has multiplayer? Fez says it's cool?
Did we watch the same program? Read the same info? MS isn't going to give all the details yet, just like Sony, just linke Nintendo.

[mmn]

You didn't see anything. The MTV thing was a joke, and basing your judgement of the system around it is on a plane of ignorance that I can't comprehend.

Noone knows the meaty details like price and BWC yet. Wait until after E3 to make these kind of assessments. Jesus...

I completely agree. Well said.

[mmn]

Not interested in Xbox, it's games, or it's successor.

And yet here you are, in the Xbox 360 forum. Makes perfect sense!

[jkam]

If, during the precedings, they gave any mention to the important info (price, HD options, etc.), then I could understand establishing an opinion at this point. But what jkam (a person known for his fanboy tendencies) is suggesting is like leaving a concert because the opening act sucked.

Since when am I known for my fanboy tendencies? I own or have owned plenty of systems from Sega, Neo Geo, Sony, Nintendo, NEC so on and so forth. Just because I have a picture of Link as my avatar doesn't make me a fanboy. I'm not sure what info E3 could give me that would help me change my mind. Maybe you can enlighten me?

[PsyClerk]

No doubt. What are you saying that you saw? You aren't getting it because it has a green ring? Changable faceplates? Has multiplayer? Fez says it's cool?
Did we watch the same program?

I'm saying that if Nintendo had put on the exact same show, we'd likely see a different response.

You can't say the 360 is a letdown because it's not out yet. You can say that show was a letdown because it had no details that we wanted to know. But honestly, that show was not for hardcore gamers. That was for the MTV crowd, to make the 360 the 'cool' game machine.

Now that I think about it, Nintendo DOES need to do something like that. Maybe it would encourage them to gain the cool factor, instead of shitting out games like Mario Baseball, Mario Basketball, Mario Hockey, Mario Eats Stereotypical Italian Food, Mario Takes A Shit, Mario Drives A Prius, and Mario Writes His Congressman. Mama mia!

[mmn]

I'm not sure what info E3 could give me that would help me change my mind. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Maybe at E3 you'll actually see some gameplay footage instead of cut scenes and two second flashes of Perfect Dark's multiplayer.

I know, judging a console based on how the games play sounds WACKY, but give it a shot.

[doodle777_98]

maybe i didnt like it becuase i expected more.

[Mookyjooky]

I'm not going by MTV...just the info we have been given up until this point. I know it is pretty early to pass judgement but the system seems like an XBOX with an IPOD design and wireless controllers. The online marketplace seems like an excuse to get people to spend their money. Oh yeah the graphics looked nice.

Stop baiting people with your Nintendo Fanboy crap.

And you poll selections are basically the same thing. Just 3 times.

I'm getting tired of hearing you bash other consoles based on ignorance...stop being such a whiny pussy and just enjoy the console you have.

You're ready to boycott Xbox 360, and you havent even seen it for real....just some hype building bullshit...

Nintendo's Pokemon or Nintendogs is really a way to get people to waste money...you want to point fingers at every other console when the reason Nintendo is dying is cause they milked everyone to the point of no return.

This is getting ridiculous....if you say you're not getting an Xbox 360 after watching a shitty MTV special, a bunch of UNCONFIRMED reports, and viewing of a 20% done game....you're a fucking dumbass.

[Ledhed]

Since when am I known for my fanboy tendencies? I own or have owned plenty of systems from Sega, Neo Geo, Sony, Nintendo, NEC so on and so forth. Just because I have a picture of Link as my avatar doesn't make me a fanboy.

Perhaps "fanboy" is the wrong word. But I'm *always* seeing threads pop up from you regarding the validity of this system or that, especially in regards to ones that haven't been released/have little or no concrete info available.

Imagine a court case with no facts present that still somehow comes to a verdict. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

I'm not sure what info E3 could give me that would help me change my mind. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Am I reading that correctly? E3 is going to give us *all* the info we don't have yet. I don't know if the info would change your mind or not; but it's inconsequential, because your mind shouldn't already be made up with so few facts present.

[MaxBiaggi2]

I'm disappointed with the MTV showing because I was expecting sort of a mini-E3 press conference with some real facts and details on 360's capabilities, but instead I got a couple of quick peeks at the system, two songs from a band I don't care about, some "pro gamer" poser action and a bunch of commercials.

I sure hope Microsoft's E3 showing is better than this was. I'll probably buy the system sooner or later (just because I buy all the systems), but the lamer their showing at E3 this year, the longer I'll be able to hold off on buying it. Infomercials are supposed to entice buyers in, not push them away.

[jkam]

Stop baiting people with your Nintendo Fanboy crap.

And you poll selections are basically the same thing. Just 3 times.

I'm getting tired of hearing you bash other consoles based on ignorance...stop being such a whiny pussy and just enjoy the console you have.

You're ready to boycott Xbox 360, and you havent even seen it for real....just some hype building bullshit...

Nintendo's Pokemon or Nintendogs is really a way to get people to waste money...you want to point fingers at every other console when the reason Nintendo is dying is cause they milked everyone to the point of no return.

This is getting ridiculous....if you say you're not getting an Xbox 360 after watching a shitty MTV special, a bunch of UNCONFIRMED reports, and viewing of a 20% done game....you're a fucking dumbass.

I am not a Nintendo fanboy. If I was I wouldn't own consoles by Sega, NEC, Sony so on and so forth. I didn't bash on the XBOX 360 but so far (with the little info that I have seen) I am letdown. I agree that Nintendo has a large hole to crawl out of.

As for being a whiny pussy have you read your post? You are ranting and raving because I gave an opionion. It appears from the poll I wasn't the only one letdown or unsure about the NEXT XBOX.

Anyway I will wait it out and get some more facts and play it for myself before I pass judgement.

[jkam]

Perhaps "fanboy" is the wrong word. But I'm *always* seeing threads pop up from you regarding the validity of this system or that, especially in regards to ones that haven't been released/have little or no concrete info available.


Where are these threads?

[Ledhed]

Where are these threads?

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44333
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44339
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44946
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44416
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46942
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41319
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48904
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50260

And let's not forget this (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51614).

I'm really not trying to bust you here jkam; I just think you're being a little impulsive.

EDIT:Anyway I will wait it out and get some more facts and play it for myself before I pass judgement.

Good on ya there.

[twanky]

It's still too early to make a decision, Led is right. On the other hand i thought the controller and system wasn't all too appealing at first, but after better pictures of the them were shown i'm starting to dig it. In other words, the appearance....i like.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Perhaps "fanboy" is the wrong word. But I'm *always* seeing threads pop up from you regarding the validity of this system or that, especially in regards to ones that haven't been released/have little or no concrete info available.

Imagine a court case with no facts present that still somehow comes to a verdict. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?



Am I reading that correctly? E3 is going to give us *all* the info we don't have yet. I don't know if the info would change your mind or not; but it's inconsequential, because your mind shouldn't already be made up with so few facts present.

This is a messageboard post, not a court of law for christ's sake. I forgot that we can't post our opinions based on rumor/speculation/shitty TV show/etc. Last time I checked, this entire http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/smilies/shaqfu.gifing forum was based on just that.

I just hope that Cheapy doesn't create a PS3 or Revolution forum before they are launched because god forbid anyone post their opinions about a system about which they know very little about!

[jkam]

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44333
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44339
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44946
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44416
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46942
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41319
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48904
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50260

And let's not forget this (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51614).

I'm really not trying to bust you here jkam; I just think you're being a little impulsive.

EDIT:

Good on ya there.

It's all good I can take it. Read up a couple of posts...I admitted I'm jumping the gun and I'm willing to wait awhile before passing judgement. I did have my doubts about the PSP but now that I have Hot Shots Golf I'm playing it all the time. I love my Gamecube more than my PS2. It doesn't mean I don't play my PS2. Maybe its just the XBOX or XBOX Next hasn't shown me enough to warrant buying another system. Either way it is all opinion but like I said from what the poll states I'm not the only one letdown or unsure about the console. The truth is I love games and I don't care what system they are on. I will wait for E3 and some actual reports.

[opportunity777]

I didn't watch the MTV thing and I have only looked at a few pics of it. I really could care less about any of the new systems until about late 2006, if I'm even alive by then.

[Ledhed]

This is a messageboard post, not a court of law for christ's sake. I forgot that we can't post our opinions based on rumor/speculation/shitty TV show/etc. Last time I checked, this entire http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/smilies/shaqfu.gifing forum was based on just that.

I just hope that Cheapy doesn't create a PS3 or Revolution forum before they are launched because god forbid anyone post their opinions about a system about which they know very little about!

Yeah, the court analogy was a bit over the top. And he has every right to express his opinion, and it's my right to discuss it further. I wasn't rude; I never called him anything beyond ignorant, which only means he lacks the knowledge we all lack.

I just thought he was being a little impulsive, and I was expecting a thread of this sort after last night's waste of time. So here we are, discussing it.

[Kaijufan]

The MTV show was horrible, so I can't make a decision about the Xbox 360 based on that. However, I might preorder it just because I loved the first Perfect Dark so much.

[howlinmad]

I will say, in jkam's defense, we are in a time where if somebody just happens to enjoy one console more than another for a period of time or they just happen to like the offerings more of one over the other, they are branded as a fanboy.

To me, a fanboy is somebody who simply refuses to admit another system has merit because either they are die hard brand fanitics, follow their particular crowd, or just outright ignorance.

On the other hand, the MTV show was what MTV is known for, even though I was actually hoping they would actually do more. I atleast expected a billboard in the back with nifty trendy fonts stating Launch in a spinning world in 360 degrees 11-11-2005 $360 or something like that.

It was a PR excuse for some actors to get paid, MTV to grab some sponser money, and MS to flash their newest monster.

[Friedle]

If, during the precedings, they gave any mention to the important info (price, HD options, etc.), then I could understand establishing an opinion at this point. But what jkam (a person known for his fanboy tendencies) is suggesting is like leaving a concert because the opening act sucked.

Bother to read the Xbox site? The posted all the specs. 20GB removable.

[Ledhed]

Bother to read the Xbox site? The posted all the specs. 20GB removable.

Does it also include the pricing of the HD, and the options available for purchasing it (bundled/seperate, sizes, etc)? If so, please lead the way.

[PsyClerk]

Interview with Allard says there will likely only be one bundle, no other options, though that could be changed during/after E3. Hard drive is supposed to be standard.

http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/feature/115575

[shipwreck]

jkam, you'd think you would have learned something from all the pre-release PSP bashing you did. I must admit though, I half expected to see a topic like this from you today.

[Rig]

I'm a Nintendo fanboy! :D

(And, I don't limit myself to only their systems, but nonetheless...)

[Ledhed]

Interview with Allard says there will likely only be one bundle, no other options, though that could be changed during/after E3. Hard drive is supposed to be standard.

http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/feature/115575

I'd love nothing more for it to be standard and still under $300. They've also said that there will (eventually) be different sizes available, and I'm really curious in that regard.

[MaxBiaggi2]

Bother to read the Xbox site? The posted all the specs. 20GB removable.

Why didn't last night's MTV programming include any of this useful informaton?

[PsyClerk]

I'd love nothing more for it to be standard and still under $300. They've also said that there will (eventually) be different sizes available, and I'm really curious in that regard.

That same article says that MS is encouraging developers to not rely on the HD, so I'd be sort of surprised to see them offer multiple sizes. But once again, it's not concrete.

Why didn't last night's MTV programming include any of this useful informaton?

Because that show was not for us. It was for the trendy college kids, to let them know what the next hip thing is supposed to be.

[SkyGheNe]

xbox 360...is it backwards compatible?

[Ledhed]

xbox 360...is it backwards compatible?

Patience, friend. E3 is but a day away.

[jkam]

jkam, you'd think you would have learned something from all the pre-release PSP bashing you did. I must admit though, I half expected to see a topic like this from you today.

I never bashed it. I was unsure about the system. I have one and I like it. It isn't the be all end all though either.

[Friedle]

Does it also include the pricing of the HD, and the options available for purchasing it (bundled/seperate, sizes, etc)? If so, please lead the way.

Sorry, didn't mean to come off like an ass.

No it does not, but it has a wealth of information.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm

[basketkase543]

Patience, friend. E3 is but a day away.

Isn't it a few days away? I'm not being nitpicky - i'm seriously wondering. Doesn't it start on Monday? By the way, why is E3 on a different schedule this year. Usually it falls on a weekend doesn't it?

[onetrackmind]

its way too early to tell how good/bad it will be. I try not to judge too quickly, it will take months after it releases for me to decide whether its worth it or not. Games make/break systems imo

[Ledhed]

Isn't it a few days away? I'm not being nitpicky - i'm seriously wondering. Doesn't it start on Monday? By the way, why is E3 on a different schedule this year. Usually it falls on a weekend doesn't it?

D'oh, you're right. I was thinking weekend, as you mentioned.

[epobirs]

I'd love nothing more for it to be standard and still under $300. They've also said that there will (eventually) be different sizes available, and I'm really curious in that regard.

It's a question of when there is a decent value proposition for greater capacity. Much as the Xbox shipped with what was then the least expensive choice in 3.5" drives and proved to a be effectively unlimited capacity for all but a few users, the 360 is getting the least expensive choice in 2.5" drives. (The premium for commodity laptop drives over desktop units has nearly disappeared as laptop marketshare grew.) The chances to fill it up are better than before but still, at 20 GB most users aren't going to find themselves needing to delete stuff. Especially since the 360 will support connecting USB drives and streaming from Windows XP computers.

After the system has been out for a while there may be some success in selling or giving away stuff like 'pilot episodes' of games from XBL, which could lead to some serious sized downloads. When the time comes that people are feeling the need for greater drive capacity the cost of those drives will be a good deal less than it is now, so why bother offering the units at a point when it would be premature and overpriced?

Perpendicular recording is just starting to move from the labs to real hard drive products. The entry level capacity for hard drives could increase by a factor of three or four by late 2006. Having higher capacity drives for the 360 before the demand is really there could be disastrous in terms of how they would be regarded for value after they've been on the shelf a few months.

[Ledhed]

I'm way smarter than you.

Yeah, 20 gigs is going to be more than enough for most. It's my techno-lust speaking that dreams of larger drives. I can't help it, I live in Texas. Bigger the better, as they say.

[epobirs]

Yeah, 20 gigs is going to be more than enough for most. It's my techno-lust speaking that dreams of larger drives. I can't help it, I live in Texas. Bigger the better, as they say.

I feel it, too. When I think about 500 GB drives that sell for under $100 I cannot help but think of having an HD-DVR where you go for months without deleting anything just in case you need to remember what happened in an episode five weeks ago.

Then I remember I don't yet have an HD screen or the ability to afford HD cable or satellite feeds.

[Melhavic]

That show wasted 20 mins of my life...got off Halo 2 to see that..who the f*ck is
the Killers? Don't care. Also B-movie actors & hollywood sluts? Don't care.
Sway(from MTV) should have done a better job at asking ?'s about more about the
system. Overall : Not worth the wait...hell that info was on the net weeks ago.
Better info next week E3 time.

[PsyClerk]

That show wasted 20 mins of my life...got off Halo 2 to see that..who the f*ck is
the Killers? Don't care. Also B-movie actors & hollywood sluts? Don't care.
Sway(from MTV) should have done a better job at asking ?'s about more about the
system. Overall : Not worth the wait...hell that info was on the net weeks ago.
Better info next week E3 time.

I don't know if I'd call Elijah Wood a B movie actor....

Anyways, no way in hell Sway came up with those questions. It sounds like he half-assed memorized them. He just sounded too stilted.

Every time I saw him I kept thinking of the X-SPAN skit from Robot Chicken...

[wubb]

I wasn't let down. Not really enough information either way to judge.

I was leaning towards passing on the Xbox in this gen for the next PS (probably) before and I still am. (I currently own just an Xbox of the current gen systems.) Though if the Xbox is the only console to ship with a HDD, I may be swayed. I think if the PS3 is backwards compatible, however, that will be enough to get my money even if it is sans HDD.

[jaritter]

that show was lame, the graphics on some of the games looked like a regular xbox game tony hawk, but i was really impressed with the visuals on Madden

[epobirs]

Yeah, 20 gigs is going to be more than enough for most. It's my techno-lust speaking that dreams of larger drives. I can't help it, I live in Texas. Bigger the better, as they say.

Depnding on what all is involved in the removable module containing the drive, some third party might see fit to sell an empty shell that users could place their separately purchased drive in. It would depend on how hard it is to make a utility that duplicates the 360's drive format and whether there is any real demand for it.

[Cracka]

i dont think theres anything i could say that hasnt been already said... this whole topic is retarded because they didnt show anything except for what it looks like and everybody already knew what it looked like.

thats like me saying i was planning on getting a ps3, but i saw a sign that said "PS3" on it... and well it was a big letdown.. after seeing that sign which showed nothing about the console, i just dont think i'm getting it. I was all set to buy it until i saw that sign that said "PS3" .. and then i just thought to myself.. is that all the ps3 has to offer? So i'm totally not getting that console now.

[epobirs]

i dont think theres anything i could say that hasnt been already said... this whole topic is retarded because they didnt show anything except for what it looks like and everybody already knew what it looked like.

thats like me saying i was planning on getting a ps3, but i saw a sign that said "PS3" on it... and well it was a big letdown.. after seeing that sign which showed nothing about the console, i just dont think i'm getting it. I was all set to buy it until i saw that sign that said "PS3" .. and then i just thought to myself.. is that all the ps3 has to offer? So i'm totally not getting that console now.

What font did the sign use? That could make all the difference for the cautious consumer.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGheNe
xbox 360...is it backwards compatible?



Patience, friend. E3 is but a day away.


Patience, friend. E3 is but a day away.

Erroneous E3 date aside http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif, I will bet a sealed copy of Sled Storm (PS2 - courtesy of the CC blowout) that it will not be backwards compatible.

I just find it strange that with all of the leaked information that has come out and has proven to be correct, that there has been no mention of backwards compatibility. That would be a huge feature that would have been reported on by now.

[-Never4ever-]

Basic overview of the MTV presentation:

Starts off with a rather incomplete Video Game timeline and then title intro.

Cue bad rock group playing really bad pop rock (or whatever the fuck you call it).

5 min break.

10 min Pimp my xbox segment.

another 5 min break.

a few scant moments of PD0 and a dev "interview" (if you could even call it that).

Another song by the same crappy rock band.

Credits.


Did MTV let us down? Yes. Unfortunatly they never showed anything about the 360 other than what it looks like and a few scant details on PD0. So NOBODY can make an accurate observation about the 360 at least till E3.

On another note, did anyone else catch what one of the rare guys said about the number of players over live? I believe he said 55 (!) Simultaneously, but I'm not too sure.

[-Never4ever-]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGheNe
xbox 360...is it backwards compatible?





Erroneous E3 date aside http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif, I will bet a sealed copy of Sled Storm (PS2 - courtesy of the CC blowout) that it will not be backwards compatible.

I'd take that bet, but only for the HD version. I'm more than certain the basic version will not be, seeing as a lot of Xbox games need the HD.

[mario23air]

I guess all the little sony fanboys will be hailing the PS3 as if it were the second coming or something. I like VIDEOGAMES. I couldn't care less about the systems I play them on. It's all about the games. If anything disappointed me it was the few games shown, looks like more of the same.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I'd take that bet, but only of the HD version. I'm more than certain the basic version will not be, seeing as a lot of Xbox games need the HD.

Dude, it's for the PS2. It most certainly doesn't support HD. http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[zewone]

On another note, did anyone else catch what one of the rare guys said about the number of players over live? I believe he said 55 (!) Simultaneously, but I'm not too sure.
I'm pretty sure he said 50 which is still quite impressive.

[Hunter55]

Three 3.2 ghz powerPC processors
500Mhz ATI graphics processor with 10MB DRAM

Need I say more?

[shipwreck]

Three 3.2 ghz powerPC processors
500Mhz ATI graphics processor with 10MB DRAM

Need I say more?

Yes, please say more, because if those numbers were equivalent to current PC's, the Xbox 360 would be the most powerful personal computer on the planet. The comparable G5 is currently only available at 2.7 GHz, so I'm not quite sure what these three 3.2 GHz processors are actually representing. I'm not sure anyone has any idea what those numbers truly mean at this point. At face value, it appears Xbox 360 would be 3.5 times more powerful than the most powerful Mac on the market. This of course can't be true, so I for one have no idea what to compare the Xbox 360 specs to.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I'm pretty sure he said 50 which is still quite impressive.

I was wondering about this myself.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought all current Xbox Live multiplayer games are hosted on another Xbox (i.e. there is no dedicated server). right?

If that is true, how the hell is one person's cable connection going to support 50+ users? Maybe the hardware could keep up, but I would think you would need a pretty big pipe to support all that network traffic.

Is the next iteration of Live going to incorporate servers that host these games?

[Cracka]

Yes, please say more, because if those numbers were equivalent to current PC's, the Xbox 360 would be the most powerful personal computer on the planet. The comparable G5 is currently only available at 2.7 GHz, so I'm not quite sure what these three 3.2 GHz processors are actually representing. I'm not sure anyone has any idea what those numbers truly mean at this point. At face value, it appears Xbox 360 would be 3.5 times more powerful than the most powerful Mac on the market. This of course can't be true, so I for one have no idea what to compare the Xbox 360 specs to.


i'm hoping you're not saying you've never heard of a computer that has a processor faster than 2.7 ghz, because even walmart sells computers in the 3.0 ghz processor range.

[Ozzkev55]

i'm hoping you're not saying you've never heard of a computer that has a processor faster than 2.7 ghz, because even walmart sells computers in the 3.0 ghz processor range.
Hes a MAC guy, so naturally Alienwares must be unheard of

[shipwreck]

i'm hoping you're not saying you've never heard of a computer that has a processor faster than 2.7 ghz, because even walmart sells computers in the 3.0 ghz processor range.


I guarantee that Wal-Mart doesn't sell G5 processors in the 3 Ghz range, since there are none currently on the market over 2.7 Ghz. Even a 2.5 Ghz G5 outperforms a 3 Ghz Pentium 4 in processor intensive benchmarks, so I can only wonder what a 3.2 Ghz G5 would do. It would completely smoke a Pentium in the same Ghz range.

Here's a link with some benchmarks: http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

And the totally ignorant "Mac guy" comment makes you seem like you have no knowledge of the G5 processors that the Xbox processors are based off of. Good to know people can still be asses about the whole Mac thing though. Luckily enough, I have both a Mac and a PC, so I don't feel the need to bash either.

Besides, all I was saying was we don't know what to compare three 3.2 Ghz G5-offshoots to.

[The Mana Knight]

Well, I'm very un-decided as to when I'll get an Xbox 360. I'll admit, I'm not too excited for a new console right now due to several appealing RPG games coming to later this year and early next year. I did buy Xbox right at launch, but I actually regret it to some extent, but my reason was because I put too much faith into it too early. Well, there's not much left I plan to get for GC, Xbox, and GBA later this year, so as long as I get most of what I want, I may get an X360. I have interest in PGR3 and DOA4 at launch. I absolutely loathe FPS, so I'm not considering any of them. I do want some of the Japanese games coming to it later on. Well, I'm probably just going to wait and see how it sells in Japan, before I jump onto Xbox 360. Japan is important for me because 85% of the games I buy are made in Japan.

[epobirs]

I guarantee that Wal-Mart doesn't sell G5 processors in the 3 Ghz range, since there are none currently on the market over 2.7 Ghz. Even a 2.5 Ghz G5 outperforms a 3 Ghz Pentium 4 in processor intensive benchmarks, so I can only wonder what a 3.2 Ghz G5 would do. It would completely smoke a Pentium in the same Ghz range.

Here's a link with some benchmarks: http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

And the totally ignorant "Mac guy" comment makes you seem like you have no knowledge of the G5 processors that the Xbox processors are based off of. Good to know people can still be asses about the whole Mac thing though. Luckily enough, I have both a Mac and a PC, so I don't feel the need to bash either.

Besides, all I was saying was we don't know what to compare three 3.2 Ghz G5-offshoots to.

Don't be confused by the name. These are PowerPC ISA chips but they are not close relatives of the G5. These cores, and the one used in Cell, are very simplified version of an earlier POWER core. You would have to radically rework MacOS to make it work on these due to a number of missing features that have no bearing on console functions. Cutting those features reduced complexity to allow higher speed and also greatly reduced cost by eliminating a lot of transistor real estate.

The trade off is that these cores are much harder to write for because they lack the Out-of-Order real-time optimization that is standard on modern desktop /server CPUs. The G5 is far more expensive for good reason. It does a lot more. Those things are vitally important to workstations and servers but won't be missed in a gaming and multimedia device environment.

Writing for these core requires a lot more manual code optimization but it's worth it for the ability to stuff so much in the box for cheap. Developers will bitch a lot about it but in a couple years most will have developed better habit in coding and doing things right the first time. The cores individually probably don't perform as well as the current best G5 but having the three of them allows for more than could be accomplished with a single higher powered CPU.

[shipwreck]

Don't be confused by the name. These are PowerPC ISA chips but they are not close relatives of the G5. These cores, and the one used in Cell, are very simplified version of an earlier POWER core. You would have to radically rework MacOS to make it work on these due to a number of missing features that have no bearing on console functions. Cutting those features reduced complexity to allow higher speed and also greatly reduced cost by eliminating a lot of transistor real estate.

The trade off is that these cores are much harder to write for because they lack the Out-of-Order real-time optimization that is standard on modern desktop /server CPUs. The G5 is far more expensive for good reason. It does a lot more. Those things are vitally important to workstations and servers but won't be missed in a gaming and multimedia device environment.

Writing for these core requires a lot more manual code optimization but it's worth it for the ability to stuff so much in the box for cheap. Developers will bitch a lot about it but in a couple years most will have developed better habit in coding and doing things right the first time. The cores individually probably don't perform as well as the current best G5 but having the three of them allows for more than could be accomplished with a single higher powered CPU.


Thanks for the insight. It's a lot more helpful than just shouting 3.2 Ghz from the rooftops.

[Ozzkev55]

Thanks for the insight. It's a lot more helpful than just shouting 3.2 Ghz from the rooftops.
Sorry if you were offended by the mac guy, im just a big alienware fan, i may get a little liberal on its behalf, with its $20,000 dream machine, who wouldnt :)

[KaneRobot]

It's ignorant to hate this console based on what you saw on a crappy MTV special. It's ignorant to love this console based on what you saw on a crappy MTV special. End of story.

I own an XBox and it's my "system of choice" for the current generation. However, I will not blindly rush in to the successor just because it's an XBox. Do I like what I've seen and read so far? Sure. But there is still a long way to go before November, and next to nothing is known about the competitors. If I see something that impresses me more with the PS3 or heaven forbid the N-Rev, I will hold my money for that system, or until Microsoft offers something that makes me want to give them my cash.

[dafoomie]

Here's a guide I found on the internet for you anti-Xbox trolls out there.

1. If a game is currently on PS2 and there are plans to bring it out on the Xbox, make sure to claim that no one will want to play that game by the time it gets to the Xbox. For example, by the time Virtua Fighter 4/GTA3 comes to the Xbox, we'll all be playing something new.

2. Use the reverse logic if it is a game only on the Xbox that may be ported to other systems/PC later. Case in point, Halo. Say something to the effect of "I'll wait for the true version of Halo on the PC". "It will be much better than the Xbox version".

3. Constantly complain about FPS on consoles EXCEPT for Goldeneye.

4. Always use Bill Gates name. Act as if he is the one making the games.
By all means, if you run out of clever or interesting things to troll about, just bring up Mr Gates. Lots of people hate him and will be glad to agree with you.

5. Complain about the XBox controller. Even if you have never seen or used it, it won't matter. People will believe you when you say it's big. Be sure and try to provide a testimonial about your wife or girlfriend or kid who complains about the size of it. Also claiming to be injured by the controller can be the foundation of a great troll post.

6. When referring to the Xbox, try to screw the name a bit. Xblox, eggs bocks, the stupider the name, the more favorable of a response you will get.

7. Be sure and mention Japanese and European sales numbers. If you aren't sure what those sales numbers are, go ahead and make something up. Estimate low, most people will believe you.

8. Although Xbox owners seem to enjoy their games, make sure to comment on Xbox not having any games with good gameplay. Although the Xbox does share some ports with PS2 and Gamecube, it's okay to assume that the Xbox version of those ports has poor gameplay as well.

9. Since the Xbox has nice graphics, be sure and find a way to put a negative spin on this. Using the age old formula that states if a game has nice graphics, it must have terrible gameplay, you can convince people that Xbox games are all tech demos.

10. Defective Xbox stories are excellent to use in trolling. The best part is that they require no proof. I find that "the screen just froze up" works great. Occasionally you can use something really bizarre like "My friend bought an Xbox and it caught on fire and burned down there house. Now they are homeless. F*** Bill Gates."

[supadupacheap]

Here's a guide I found on the internet for you anti-Xbox trolls out there...

I started laughing my head off until I realized how often people really do this sort of thing.

[KaneRobot]

Here's a guide I found on the internet for you anti-Xbox trolls out there.

Post of the month.

However, Dafoomie forgot the first and most frequent moronic comment from XBox-bashers:

"The only good game they have is Halo." (usually said by someone who hasn't even played Halo, let alone other XBox games)

[CappyCobra]

Dafoomie laying the smackdown. :D This should get good real quick <Starts making popcorn>

[spoo]

Here's a guide I found on the internet for you anti-Xbox trolls out there.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[BlueWingX]

Here's a guide I found on the internet for you anti-Xbox trolls out there.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:applause: Brilliant!!! :applause:

[dafoomie]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:applause: Brilliant!!! :applause:
I didn't actually write this... I found it on the internet, like I said. Give credit to the author, whoever it is.

[easy_g]

Post of the month.

However, Dafoomie forgot the first and most frequent moronic comment from XBox-bashers:

"The only good game they have is Halo." (usually said by someone who hasn't even played Halo, let alone other XBox games)

Funny thing is I would say that, except I think Halo is highly overrated. I played the first one all the way through (granted it was co-op with a friend) and thought it was fun, but nothing special.

The Controller S is very nice. Though I still find the white and black buttons to be a little akward.

But I will agree that if someone uses the nice graphics=bad gameplay statement, they are a moron. Case in point, look at RE4.

XBLOX SUXX0RS!1!

sorry, i had to.

[dafoomie]

Funny thing is I would say that, except I think Halo is highly overrated. I played the first one all the way through (granted it was co-op with a friend) and thought it was fun, but nothing special.

The Controller S is very nice. Though I still find the white and black buttons to be a little akward.

But I will agree that if someone uses the nice graphics=bad gameplay statement, they are a moron. Case in point, look at RE4.

XBLOX SUXX0RS!1!

sorry, i had to.
Halo 2 is overrated, Halo 1 isn't as much. They're replacing white and black with shoulder buttons over the triggers on the 360.

I'm not particular to any company, I do like the Xbox's hardware more but I own a PS2 too, and I use both. I'm not trying to pump up the new Xbox but I don't like unfounded criticism when something isn't even out yet, in favor of something that no one has even seen yet.

[eastx]

First off, I'll probably buy the 360 on launch day because I love my Xbox and I'm looking forward to the new generation of game systems. I have & enjoy all 3 systems but as a fan of multiplayer games, Xbox has way more to offer (especially with Live).

Anyway, I'll tell ya why 360 should appeal to you at least a little bit: 512 MEGs of very fast RAM. That's forward-thinking on Microsoft's part. The current Xbox has 64 MEGs of RAM and that's the most of all 3 consoles. Console developers are always saying they'd like more RAM, or PC ports have to be cut down because of console's decreased memory. You can say processor speed and such don't matter that much but RAM does and Microsoft got it right... That's great for games, baby.

I also applaud them for choosing to go with wireless controllers, as Nintendo is also doing and I hope Sony does as well. Until you've used a really good wireless (the WaveBird or the newer Logitech pads) you can't really appreciate how nice it is to leave cords behind. It's so comfortable and convenient (though charging the batteries might not be.)

[epobirs]

I was wondering about this myself.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought all current Xbox Live multiplayer games are hosted on another Xbox (i.e. there is no dedicated server). right?

If that is true, how the hell is one person's cable connection going to support 50+ users? Maybe the hardware could keep up, but I would think you would need a pretty big pipe to support all that network traffic.

Is the next iteration of Live going to incorporate servers that host these games?

It isn't a pipe issue. Online games don't move huge volumes of data around. Each update is just a few dozen bytes at most for each player and/or bot. Position, attitude, rate of movement, weapons fire, all of these need only a couple bytes each to describe. Within those 16 bits are 65,536 possible conditions, each of which is already understood by the software at each node. You can have a very detailed update on a small army of players with less bandwidth than is used to get postage stamp sized video playback on dial-up ten years ago.

The big issue for online gaming performance isn't bandwidth but latency. The amount of time it takes for an update to get from a player to the host that is arbitrating collisions and their effects is what matters. The more players in a game the great probability one of them has a logjam between them and the server. In bad designs that try to force everyone to live by the limits of the worst connected player it can be frustrating for everyone. In better designs that only penalize that player he become spastic cannon fodder lumbering around the play field.

If these players' onscreen depiction is going to be nicely detailed models, then you have a possible load issue. There is nothing to stop a bunch of players from coming very close to each other and putting a massive amount of rendering work within the field of view. Happens all the time in public gatherings on MMORPGs.

Some people went on in the chat room about 4K or 5K being a low number compared to the main character in RE4. That doesn't consider that RE4 is a controlled situation. Everything the player can do in moving through the game is known and load levels balanced. For truly free form multiplayer the worst case scenario is far more difficult to predict.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

It isn't a pipe issue. Online games don't move huge volumes of data around. Each update is just a few dozen bytes at most for each player and/or bot. Position, attitude, rate of movement, weapons fire, all of these need only a couple bytes each to describe. Within those 16 bits are 65,536 possible conditions, each of which is already understood by the software at each node. You can have a very detailed update on a small army of players with less bandwidth than is used to get postage stamp sized video playback on dial-up ten years ago.

The big issue for online gaming performance isn't bandwidth but latency. The amount of time it takes for an update to get from a player to the host that is arbitrating collisions and their effects is what matters. The more players in a game the great probability one of them has a logjam between them and the server. In bad designs that try to force everyone to live by the limits of the worst connected player it can be frustrating for everyone. In better designs that only penalize that player he become spastic cannon fodder lumbering around the play field.

If these players' onscreen depiction is going to be nicely detailed models, then you have a possible load issue. There is nothing to stop a bunch of players from coming very close to each other and putting a massive amount of rendering work within the field of view. Happens all the time in public gatherings on MMORPGs.

Some people went on in the chat room about 4K or 5K being a low number compared to the main character in RE4. That doesn't consider that RE4 is a controlled situation. Everything the player can do in moving through the game is known and load levels balanced. For truly free form multiplayer the worst case scenario is far more difficult to predict.

Ok, switch my question from bandwidth to latency (which will still be a major issue with the average user's home connection) and tell me how a typical 3-4 Mb/s cable connection is going to support 50+ players?

Maybe if you dumb down the models and textures it would work. But then at that point, is it worth it just for the sheer number of players?

Anyway, what I was really asking is if the new version of Live is going to incorporate dedicated game servers this time around (at least for some games) and not put the burden on an individual Xbox owner.

[epobirs]

Ok, switch my question from bandwidth to latency (which will still be a major issue with the average user's home connection) and tell me how a typical 3-4 Mb/s cable connection is going to support 50+ players?

Maybe if you dumb down the models and textures it would work. But then at that point, is it worth it just for the sheer number of players?

Anyway, what I was really asking is if the new version of Live is going to incorporate dedicated game servers this time around (at least for some games) and not put the burden on an individual Xbox owner.

You don't need anywhere near that kind of bandwidth. Tribes allowed 64 players many years ago. One 64K ISDN channel was more than sufficient for participating in this. The big advantage of a digital connection was it's reliability over analog connections rather than bandwidth. The pure digital connection also had lower latency thanks to avoiding the local analog stage of the phone system. Even the most minimal broadband connection is adequate in terms of data rate so long as it isn't satellite based. That trip to LEO and back adds horrendous latency. My former employer, www.locationconnect.com, served as an emergency replacement when the T1 at Sony's E3 press event site two years ago had a meltdown and needed a replacement. Our Tachyon.net satellite dish was set up on the site so they could conduct their online gaming demos. Madden hated the latency and refused to work but SOCOM was OK with it, albeit putting the local players at a great disadvantage.

You've got some of the concepts confused. The models and textures aren't being moved around on a constant basis. At worst, if there are players with customized appearances that cannot be derived from the info already residing at each player's console that data will need to sent around at the beginning of the game to initialize things but only one time. (A lot of games have a character designer built in but since all of the choosable attribute are known they can be reduced to a short list of numbers. Something like a player's photographed face used as a texture would have to be transmitted in it's entirety since it isn't part of the shipping product.) Once your Xbox knows what the player looks like it doesn't have to be told again. I can even be stored as part of the game save under that players Gamertag for future matches. During actual gameplay the only transmitted data is stuff relating to player initiated actions.

There are a few different ways to go about this. For instance, when player X fires his weapon, should the type of weapon also be included or should the weapon type only be sent over the wire when it is changed, say switching from nail gun to missile launcher? The choice is between having a chatty messaging system vs. keeping a local database on all the players. The developer has to weigh which will carry the greater penalty, sending a lot more updates or allocating RAM for storing and rapidly referencing those details and only needing changes to those details to be transmitted. A game where stealth is a big factor could go very quiet on the messaging if a lot of the players are holding still waiting to strike.

Latency is always an issue but that one online game designers are accustomed to handling. A big part of the XBL infrastructure is ping testing each players connection. Players can potentially be barred from games if their connection has severe latency compared to the others. Where the range is within set boundaries there are handicapping methods that can be applied to prevent the player with the lowest ping times from having an unfair advantage. Done correctly, this is transparent to the players and everyone is happy. There may be some detectable lag but so long as it is identical for all players the game works.

[YeahRight13]

it looks so badass i think u should get it

and since u didnt even get the first xbox u should get this one

[KaneRobot]

However, Dafoomie forgot the first and most frequent moronic comment from XBox-bashers:

"The only good game they have is Halo." (usually said by someone who hasn't even played Halo, let alone other XBox games)
Funny thing is I would say that, except I think Halo is highly overrated.

But it still doesn't make any sense WHY anyone would say that. That wasn't even true when the system came out - DOA3 and PGR were solid launch titles - so it's sure as hell not true now. Even if someone absolutely despises Halo, they can't say stuff like KOTOR or Forza or Splinter Cell or even touched up PS2 crossovers like the GTA games aren't outstanding - or at least highly praised by others if it isn't their cup of tea.

It's like saying Final Fantasy or Grand Theft Auto (whichever) are the only good PS2 games just because they are the most well known.

[pumbaa]

The MTV showing was Microsoft chance to wow us. The first showing of a new console should make you feel giddy... it should make you think, without a doubt, that you need that system. Regardless of what actually ends up happening... the first showing of a system needs to be something that makes you want to buyt he system tomorrow (if it were available to buy).

Given the showing... I'm not sold just yet. I'm not sure Microsoft should've nutted early... I think E3 would've made a better introduction to the system. As it stands now... we've got screen shots of games that look marginally better than this generation... we got a sleek little peice of hardware... but nothing else. Remember th scene from FF8 in real time? Remember Ganon fighting Link in full 3D? These are the moments that make a system introduction. Xbox 360 did not have that at its introduction. Do I want one? sure... I miss great Rare games and the system looks pretty damn sleek. Am I underwhlemed? Yup. Here's hoping for something a bit more interesting at e3.

[Trakan]

The MTV showing was Microsoft chance to wow us. The first showing of a new console should make you feel giddy... it should make you think, without a doubt, that you need that system. Regardless of what actually ends up happening... the first showing of a system needs to be something that makes you want to buyt he system tomorrow (if it were available to buy).

Watch this video and tell me if it changes your mind.

http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/ourcolony/TheColony_v1_750k.wmv

[PaulEMoz]

So, has anybody here (besides me) seen the video of the Jeff Minter/Llamasoft lightsynth/music visualiser that comes built into XBox 360...?

[pumbaa]

Watch this video and tell me if it changes your mind.

http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/ourcolony/TheColony_v1_750k.wmv


I had seen that before I saw the MTV showing. I still stand by what I said.

[mmn]

The MTV showing was Microsoft chance to wow us. The first showing of a new console should make you feel giddy... it should make you think, without a doubt, that you need that system. Regardless of what actually ends up happening... the first showing of a system needs to be something that makes you want to buyt he system tomorrow (if it were available to buy).

Given the showing... I'm not sold just yet. I'm not sure Microsoft should've nutted early... I think E3 would've made a better introduction to the system. As it stands now... we've got screen shots of games that look marginally better than this generation... we got a sleek little peice of hardware... but nothing else. Remember th scene from FF8 in real time? Remember Ganon fighting Link in full 3D? These are the moments that make a system introduction. Xbox 360 did not have that at its introduction. Do I want one? sure... I miss great Rare games and the system looks pretty damn sleek. Am I underwhlemed? Yup. Here's hoping for something a bit more interesting at e3.

You make it sound like you're expecting the 360 to cure cancer and end world hunger.

[pumbaa]

You make it sound like you're expecting the 360 to cure cancer and end world hunger.

No no no... not at all. I'm just expecting the introduction of a new console to excite me. Xbox 360 just gave me more of the same.

[dafoomie]

No no no... not at all. I'm just expecting the introduction of a new console to excite me. Xbox 360 just gave me more of the same.
I'm excited, but not by the MTV show. Bringing Xbox Live to another level, having Windows Media Extender so that I can watch videos off my computer, and having the next generation of graphics (as much as we argue, 360 should be comperable to everything else), will be great.

I'm particularly excited by the possibilities of Japanese support. Blue Dragon is going to be an awesome game. The games from Mistwalker (Blue Dragon + another RPG), Game Republic (Yoshiki Okamoto's company, guy responsible for Resident Evil and Street Fighter 2), and Q Entertainment (maker of Meteos and Lumines), plus the Tecmo games (Dead or Alive, Ninja Gaiden, etc), and 360 being first to come out, will enormously help them in Japan. The better they do in Japan, the more Japanese games we get. Backwards compatibility should also be a huge help, if it happens, since they can pick up the games they missed on the first Xbox, like Otogi, Dai Senryaku, the Shin Megami Tensei game, Phantom Dust, DOA, Ninja Gaiden, etc. If they don't have backwards compatibility, it'll be a disaster.

[epobirs]

So, has anybody here (besides me) seen the video of the Jeff Minter/Llamasoft lightsynth/music visualiser that comes built into XBox 360...?

No, where is it available? I've loved Jeff's visualizers since the Atari 800 days. They should also get him to do a mondo deluxe version of 'Attack of the Mutant Camels' which was a clone of the Atari 2600 Empire Strikes Back game from Parker Bros. It would be kinda funny to have incredibly detailed camels and other stuff but the exact same gameplay. Put it on XBL Arcade for $5.

[epobirs]

The MTV showing was Microsoft chance to wow us. The first showing of a new console should make you feel giddy... it should make you think, without a doubt, that you need that system. Regardless of what actually ends up happening... the first showing of a system needs to be something that makes you want to buyt he system tomorrow (if it were available to buy).

Given the showing... I'm not sold just yet. I'm not sure Microsoft should've nutted early... I think E3 would've made a better introduction to the system. As it stands now... we've got screen shots of games that look marginally better than this generation... we got a sleek little peice of hardware... but nothing else. Remember th scene from FF8 in real time? Remember Ganon fighting Link in full 3D? These are the moments that make a system introduction. Xbox 360 did not have that at its introduction. Do I want one? sure... I miss great Rare games and the system looks pretty damn sleek. Am I underwhlemed? Yup. Here's hoping for something a bit more interesting at e3.

You mean the realtime FF8 demo that turned out to have nothing to do with any real product and as it turned out wasn't even a PS2 demo? Or the Zelda animation that also turned out to only be a demo and the look of it implemented in a game only after foisting Wind Waker's interminable sailing on unsuspecting fans? A demo shown at the launch of the system for a game that is due to ship as the system goes into secondary status.

The trailers for stuff like Condemned are looking pretty damn good and it is an actual announced title.

[PaulEMoz]

No, where is it available? I've loved Jeff's visualizers since the Atari 800 days. They should also get him to do a mondo deluxe version of 'Attack of the Mutant Camels' which was a clone of the Atari 2600 Empire Strikes Back game from Parker Bros. It would be kinda funny to have incredibly detailed camels and other stuff but the exact same gameplay. Put it on XBL Arcade for $5.

http://www.llamasoft.co.uk

Right hand side - Neon - Movies.

[pumbaa]

You mean the realtime FF8 demo that turned out to have nothing to do with any real product and as it turned out wasn't even a PS2 demo? Or the Zelda animation that also turned out to only be a demo and the look of it implemented in a game only after foisting Wind Waker's interminable sailing on unsuspecting fans? A demo shown at the launch of the system for a game that is due to ship as the system goes into secondary status.

The trailers for stuff like Condemned are looking pretty damn good and it is an actual announced title.

I understand that... and when I wrote what I wrote about those "demos" I knew that. But thats my point. Regardless of the truth of what was shown and if it is ever becomes a real game doesn't concern me. I expect embellishment of the technological sort at a consoles unveiling. Since I expect embellishment... I see these Xbox 360 screens and wonder if these are embellished as well. I see that in both the MTV special and the ourcolony.net video that there isnt a lot of game footage. That worries me. I look at screens of upcoming games... and I see Xbox 1 games...

Do I want an Xbox 360 at this point? Sure, it's filling a Dreamcast like role... giving me a bit of the next generation now... and I've enjoyed a lot of the exclusives that Microsoft has managed to get together for the Xbox.

Am I excited by the next generation Xbox? No. And thats why I think this entire marketing thing... MTV style was not a good idea. I was tantaized by the little bits and peice on ourcolony.net... but now that the thing is unveiled... Microsoft has an uphill climb during e3 to my wallet.

[PenguinMaster]

Shouldn't you hold judgement until you see the games more? The games are really the only important thing.

[pumbaa]

Shouldn't you hold judgement until you see the games more? The games are really the only important thing.

I'm not judging the Xbox 360 as a console. You are right... it'd be stupid before anyone ever touched any of the games. As I said before... I'm more than likely going to buy one... Bioware, Rare, and Sega (who seems hell bent on making me buy all three consoles to consume their games) solidified those plans a while ago. I'm just criticizing the unveiling.

[sisco1986]

I always buy new Consoles after the fallout settels, I won't buy a 360 until I see more games that I want to play, that's why I wait at least 3-6 weeks to get a new console. The console can wipe my ass, walk my dog and go to work for me, but if it doesn't have great games, what's the point of owning one? I for one won't be getting any of the next gen consoles right away, because after the first month when the eye candy starts to ware off, I don't want to be stuck with a 300$ box with shitty games. Hardware ain't shit with out software.

[Dante Devil]

What really has me intrigued is that it comes with wireless controllers and how each game will need to be in a Hi-Def format. The Hi-def format has me feeling grateful for purchasing my 50 inch Hitachi 50v500. My biggest hope is that it will have backwards compatibility.

[Scorch]

Everyone's quick to jump in and bash 360.. i'm not worried about Pumbaa's lack of excitement, he's a huge Nintendo fan so it's going to be hard to "wow" him.

Again, I really don't know what you guys are bitching about. The point of the MTV show was to reveal the console, cosmetic wise, and show off a few games. It did both of those things. Why would Microsoft lay everything on the table on an MTV show when E3 is the next week? Geez.. think about it.

[CappyCobra]

The MTV special is what gets Casual gamers to talk about the system. Avenues as this one as well as other gaming sites are where the 'hardcore' congregates. Wether GOOD or BAD, you are TALKING about the system no? Any publicity is better than none.

[epobirs]

Everyone's quick to jump in and bash 360.. i'm not worried about Pumbaa's lack of excitement, he's a huge Nintendo fan so it's going to be hard to "wow" him.

Again, I really don't know what you guys are bitching about. The point of the MTV show was to reveal the console, cosmetic wise, and show off a few games. It did both of those things. Why would Microsoft lay everything on the table on an MTV show when E3 is the next week? Geez.. think about it.

If they wanted to do a show for hardcore gamers it would have been on G4 and perhaps still might. OTOH, the coverage G4 is going to give it by default makes it unnecessary for them to foot the bill. They desparately need content on that channel.

[Demolition Man]

As of right now I am awaiting for more information on the system before I fully judge it. Going by what we DO know on paper it does sound like technically its an impressive system. However I feel that some details are vague, like backwards compatability with XBox (both in terms of games, XBox Live gameplay, custom soundtracks, etc) along with other minor things.

I'm NOT impressed with the microtransactions system, as I find it rather annoying that one has to PAY in order to get extra stuff for the game. I could see developers actually holding back some stuff like certain maps, weapons, and/or characters from the retail product so you'll have to buy them as extras. Nickle and diming it indeed.

We'll see how this system turns out, but I have a feeling that XBox 360 will do nothing that we haven't seen before elsewhere.

[pumbaa]

Everyone's quick to jump in and bash 360.. i'm not worried about Pumbaa's lack of excitement, he's a huge Nintendo fan so it's going to be hard to "wow" him.

Again, I really don't know what you guys are bitching about. The point of the MTV show was to reveal the console, cosmetic wise, and show off a few games. It did both of those things. Why would Microsoft lay everything on the table on an MTV show when E3 is the next week? Geez.. think about it.

Heh. I doubt Microsoft is too worried either... considering I'm considering picking up a 360 at launch. That might change... depending on what Nintendo says in a couple o' days ;) .