Seller's Auction - Misleading or Not?

[chosen1s]

Here's a question I told a seller recently I would pose to all of you and see what your feelings are on the subject. Recently I bought a game on Ebay with the following Title:

Castlevania Legends Nintendo GameBoy MINT New GB

And the following description:

Hi and thanks for looking at my auction! If you are looking at this auction, then you know you are looking at the game Castlevania Legends for the Nintendo GameBoy system. Game is in like new condition. This item has been a part of my collection for quite a while, and I take very good care of my items.

---Then blah blah blah "I'm a powerseller, tested, guaranteed, shipping, etc." ---

Here's the dispute: Turns out the game was not complete, and not new. I feel that the seller is first of all being dishonest titling her auction "New" when it clearly is not. I also feel she is being intentionally deceitful by leaving out any details as to box, instructions, etc. in the auction - opting only to say the game is "like new".

It is important to point out that this lady also owns and operates her own retail store, so ignorance is not a factor here.

She says "Like New" wouldn't fit, so "New" was the next-best solution. When I pointed out she had 5+ auctions going in which the Title had 5-6 extra spaces unused where she could have added the word "like", she claimed that there is no time to adjust every single title.

She also claims that her auction implies that the game is cart-only because it doesn't mention the box or instructions. In the intereste of trying to stay "fair" and let you decide for yourself, I have left out the majority of our bickering back and forth and only hit the high points. Everyone here is pretty Ebay-savvy, so what do you think?

So what do all of you think? Who is right and who is wrong?

Edit: She also pointed out that the "used" box is checked in the description, and I might point out that I just realized the description says it's been part of her personal collection for some time. In her emails she stated several times that all of her items are doubles of what has come into her retail store.

[worx]

This is similar to the EB opening and selling games as new debate :D
To me, new means "complete with everything it comes with and unopened" - so that was somewhat misleading.

[gmzone]

I think used should mean used, and new should mean new. I hate all the auctions that say something is 'new', and it's really mint, opened, used, resealed, etc. She's wrong there.

With that said, if an auction didn't mention the case, or that it was complete, etc., I'd be asking questions, because people don't mention them to get a higher price. If you didn't ask questions (though it may annoy you, when it should have been clearly spelled out for you), then you are in the wrong there.

[zion]

Bottom line it isn't new. I understand that many cart only snes and nes games are listed as mint, but people are also very careful to mention it is cart only.

[chosen1s]

^That's been my argument all along. I want to give this lady the link to this poll, but the last thing I want is to expose her to this precious site and give her the opportunity to be the one who beats us CAG's to the $2 CC sales and cleans them all out for her Ebay business...

[zion]

^That's been my argument all along. I want to give this lady the link to this poll, but the last thing I want is to expose her to this precious site and give her the opportunity to be the one who beats us CAG's to the $2 CC sales and cleans them all out for her Ebay business...

It's a common complaint. I'd just demand my money back, I'm reasonably sure ebay would back you on this one, especially when she used the word new.

[chosen1s]

You know what's funny? I sent Ebay an email, expecting them to eradicate the auction like they do to all of my auctions that have even the smallest detail incorrect. They send me back an email telling me to contact the seller and work it out on our own.

[zionoverfire]

You know what's funny? I sent Ebay an email, expecting them to eradicate the auction like they do to all of my auctions that have even the smallest detail incorrect. They send me back an email telling me to contact the seller and work it out on our own.

Oh that's right, they are a power seller. I've noticed ebay sometimes kisses their asses, I don't suppose you could do a paypal or CC chargeback?

[chosen1s]

Actually I never paid. It occured to me right before I paid for the item that I might want to confirm some of the details of the transaction, so I emailed her to ask.

[Friedle]

The thing that really pisses me the fuck off is when I do an advanced search for new items and people list their items in the description box as new and they're not. It makes me want to reach though my computer screen and feed them they're own testicles.

My issues aside, if any retailer listed something in one place wrong they would give the customer that price or item, etc. Example, wrong tag on an item. The retailer would eat the money loss due to their mistake. Since she has her own retail store I'm sure she must understand that. And listing something as new when it's not is no execption. You shouldn't have to pay unless she provides *at least* a mint, complete game.

[thesilentshadow30]

This is definately misleading. New in the title means new in box with instructions. Plus in the description the seller doesn't say used cart only, only like new. Like new still doesn't clairify the details. How hard would it have been to type CART ONLY, oh very hard my fingers hurt now from it. . .

I would not pay for the item and if I got a neg so be it. The seller was trying to mislead potential customers. Powerseller or not, a liar is a liar.

[YoshiFan1]

It was misleading. I hate when people list items in the title as new when they are used.

[Ugamer_X]

She is wrong. Fix whatever needs to be fixed and tell her to list her auctions correctly next time.

[zion]

Actually I never paid. It occured to me right before I paid for the item that I might want to confirm some of the details of the transaction, so I emailed her to ask.

I see, that puts you in a tight spot for feedback, it's very easy for the seller to turn you in as a non-paying bidder and as a power seller she might not care too much about any negative you leave.

How much did the item end at anyhow?

[chosen1s]

It was $15, which is why I jumped on the BIN for a "New" Castlevania Legends. She is freaking out about the feedback actually.

[YoshiFan1]

I just looked at the seller's feedback and they seem to leave retalitory negatives for the same problem (someone else complained game was not complete). They even left someone a negative after a neutral was left for them. Unless they leave feedback first, if you neg or neutral them, you'll probably get a negative feedback in return.

They also justify their high shipping by claiming a bubble mailer costs them $3!

[beerguy961]

The title is pretty misleading (NEW = Brand-new copy). NEW being the closest thing to LIKE NEW is complete and utter bullshit. The description itself isn't inherently misleading (as it doesn't mention box condition and such), but with the NEW in the title, you would probably assume that it is complete and new.

[zionoverfire]

It was $15, which is why I jumped on the BIN for a "New" Castlevania Legends. She is freaking out about the feedback actually.

Ah see that's what happens with low BINs.:lol:

If she's really worried about the feedback just tell her you won't pay for it because the item wasn't as discribed, but don't actually threaten her about feedback least she report you to ebay.

Then if she tries to NPB you pay up and do a CC chargeback right after she ships, evil yes, but she deserves it.:D

[Drocket]

Definitely misleading, and unfortunately not uncommon on eBay. There are a few words you should never, ever trust on eBay - 'Rare' and 'Limited', for example - add 'New' to that list. Unless they actually say something like 'in box', 'with instructions', 'sealed', etc, just assume that what they mean is 'Cart only, from Blockbuster, covered in rental stickers.'

[eldad9]

She says "Like New" wouldn't fit, so "New" was the next-best solution. When I pointed out she had 5+ auctions going in which the Title had 5-6 extra spaces unused where she could have added the word "like", she claimed that there is no time to adjust every single title.

Like describing yourself as "single" when "married" doesn't fit, "major" when "sargeant" doesn't fit, or "lawyer" when "janitor" doesn't fit?

The item shipped was not the item described in the title. The blame lies with the seller. Whether or not the buyer was careful enough reading the rest of the description is irrelevant.

[Quackzilla]

I agree, like new means it is COMPLETE and looks like it did when you got it.

[wubb]

Just checked the listing.

Oh yeah, that's deceptive for sure. Seller has to know any buyer would be expecting a complete copy given her 'like new' description and 'New MINT' title.

To be fair the condition box (of the standard details section) is marked as 'Used' but it doesn't mention cart only anywhere.

And that seller does have quite a few negs with similar complaints (as Yoshi said)

"I AM AN EBAY POWER SELLER! BE CONFIDENT WHEN BIDDING ON MY ITEMS THAT YOUR ARE NOT ONLY BUYING FROM ONE OF THE BEST SELLERS ON EBAY, BUT THAT YOU ARE BIDDING ON SOME OF THE BEST ITEMS ON EBAY!"

:roll:

Unfortunately you may end up with a NPB strike out of this.

Man this seller is a piece of work, check the return policy:

"Returns are only on items that are non working due to defect- not because of any damage possibly inflicted via mailing."

I gaurantee you anyone that e-mails with a problem is going to get a reply of "Oh it was in perfect shape when I mailed it, the damage must have been 'inflicted via mailing', sorry!"

Pretty fun to go through this person's FB (especially left for others.)

The winner of this auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8170851429) expected to get 2 controllers. The nerve!

Also looks like every single thing they've ever sold 'has been a part of my collection for quite a while, and I take very good care of my items.' And nearly everything is 'Mint NEW' (The only things that aren't are the games with titles too long to add that in...)

This seller has a TON of mutually withdrawn FB. Plan seems to be to always leave neg in return and ask for a withdraw.

[slidecage]

i got front mission 3 off ebay and asked if it was complete with box and book. they said it was in a different case but it had the book. Got it yesterday in the mail and the book is ripped torned up and the front of the cover is ripped off. Yet the seller never said the book was damaged. i emailed them and they never emailed me back

[chosen1s]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for your comments and participation. I just emailed her back the poll results and pasted most of the comments into the email (I deleted out names or references to CAG). She can no longer say "the majority of people agree that there is nothing wrong with my listing methods.

I had told her yesterday in an email (before posting this thread) that if she wanted to leave me positive feedback, I would respond with Neutral stating "Item was described as "New" and "Like-New", but was cart only". After reading through this thread I regret making that offer. I told her in the email I just sent with the polls that I feel she needs to receive negative feedback, even though I know she will retailiate, because it is so clear now that her auctions are intentionally misleading and she shows no remourse or desire to fix them. I told her I would stand by my original promise to trade Neutral for Positive, but that she has until tonight to make up her mind - otherwise I follow through with Negative.

Taking one for the team... :)

[yeah-yeah]

As a seller, this is an example of something that bugs me. If, as a buyer, you have questions, ask the questions before the auction is over, not after you've won the auction.

That said, her excuse for using "new" instead of "like new" because it "wouldn't fit" is complete and total crap. Her auction was clearly misleading. Any chance you can use squaretrade?

[wubb]

Hard to say if eBay would consider asking the seller to leave you postive FB to avoid a neg from you feedback extortion or not. Personally I'd avoid mentioning what feedback you'll leave at all. I'd make it pretty clear what FB you'd be leaving without actually saying it in so many words (too late now obviously). Seller seems to be pretty crafty/devious so I wouldn't be surprised if s/he at least goes to eBay with that case.

If I were you I'd probably go ahead and pay the seller if they are completely unwilling to work with you to avoid the possible NPB. (Since you have so much FB.)

[howlinmad]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the seller, nor am I downing you, but personally unless I see it actually listed on an ebay auction, I expect only that. Most auctions will say "includes manual, box, etc." or "complete". Unless I saw that, I would honestly expect the game itself to be "like new".

Unfortunatly while there are people who simply do not read auctions and get upset (like the times I listed a marque for an arcade machine, listed it was for the marque only, in big bold red letters, and was only put on the machine to show size (it was actually propped up against the control panel) I got emails asking if the monitor worked, all buttons, etc....and they were actually upset when I told them what the auction was for)

Anyway, back on topic, again, I'm not comparing you, or saying the seller is right, just saying there are both misleading and just down right stupid people who also make the descriptions for auctions.

My point being, unless it said new in box, or it actually stated what it included, I would have expected a working cartridge that was like new (I think she actually said both), the rest a bonus.
I could have misread, but unfortunatly it looks like you got the "Box with an X on it", and I don't see Ebay doing much. But good luck, hope it works out for you.

**edited**
I really want to say again, I'm honestly not saying you are wrong and she is right, just saying you really have to be careful on Ebay. Most auctions I won't even bid on without pictures.

[chosen1s]

No problem, I get what you're saying. From the selling size, how can she justify even using the word "New" for an item that came into her store used?

I get what you're saying - basically "buyer beware", but no matter how ignorant or stupid a seller is, I don't think you can read anything other than opportunistic behavior into putting the word "new" into the title. A person that dumb shouldn't be allowed to live alone or handle sharp objects, because they clearly cannot grasp simple concepts (new vs. used, sharp vs. dull).

What really blows my mind is her defending it into the ground. I would have dropped the issue with her a long time ago if she had just said "yeah, I got overzealous" but she has stood her ground and insisted that "everyone" she talks to agrees that her auctions are accurate.

[madmage]

Yes the title was misleading. However, it is the buyers responsibility to make sure he knows what he's buying, for his own sake. Do I think you got the shaft? Yeah, I would be pissed too, but it was still up to you to ask the seller if it actually came with the box, especially when it says in the description it is not brand new.

[jho]

From her feedback she's definitely pissed off some buyers by claiming mint/new when it wasn't, even some positive FBs complained about it. I'm guessing she's making a conscious choice to milk a few extra bucks on the risk of a few unhappy customers. Personally I think it's pretty dishonest.

[javeryh]

God I hate people. New is new and used is used. The rest is bullshit semantics from dishonest assholes.

[Genocidal]

Definitely dishonest, and it looks like she's been doing it for a while. Isn't there some sort of eBay rule that prohibits sellers from dropping excessive keywords in their titles? I think you may be able to at the least get eBay on her for a day or two, since clearly "new" and "mint" these games are not.

[wubb]

Just for the hell of it I reported a bunch of her auctions (that have MINT New in the title) for misleading titles.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/misleading-titles.html

Reading through the FB they've left for others really started to piss me off.

[doodle777_98]

very misleading if you ask me.

[chosen1s]

If anybody is interested, here is the response she sent me today:

I have explained myself to you so many times now it is absurd. I have forwarded every single email between us to ebay. My ebay powerseller representative (and I can gladly forward you the email if you like) has told me that it is pretty clear you have no intentions to complete the purchase and if you leave negative feedback etc, you purchased the item for the sole purpose of leaving negative feedback, therefore making your account up for suspension. He also told to file a Non Paying Bidder Complaint against you and to add you to my blocked bidders list. I feel no need to respond to any more emails you send to me as I have explained myself. My store has had most of these items for a long, long while (in most instances, more than a year) and virtually all of them (at least 90 percent) came from my personal collection. Wanna see pictures? i have, quite literally, every single US released :

SNES game

N64 game

Sega Saturn Game

virtual boy game

Sega Dreamcast game

I also am just a few shy of having every single:

NES game

Playstation game

Atari jaguar game

dont believe me, would love to show pictures. I really do not care what your poll showed as my poll is my feedback- and it clearly show that I am in the right. Why is it I am able to maintain such high feedback if people agree with you so much? the answer is- I am right and you are wrong. In your poll, the people were INCREDIBLY biased due to your own blatant lie of explanations. If a random person just took a look at the auction, there would be no problem. adding your lies to the mix, though, and the fact that the poll is biased due to it being your own in the first place, automatically makes it useless and totally meaningless. I too had a poll in my store, and will be glad to send it to you. It comes with phone numbers for every user and I did not even mention it was my own auction. All I put was the description and the title and the game next to it, and asked people if they felt it was a fair description and title. While about 20 percent of people said the word new should not be in the title (even after looking at the game) and 30 more percent of the people said putting new in the title was questionable, I had just 10 percent of the people total (out of 60 people) say the item was not like new. The item is flawless, it is fresh and is definitely in like new condition. The GAME is in like new condition. no mention of the box or the manual. If you want to leave negative feedback, thats fine with me, but I was told by the ebay representative that if I were to leave feedback for you first, it would be a sign that your feedback could be seen as retaliation and therefore could not be removed by ebay. If you leave it first though, it is removable and will be seen for grounds for possible suspension of your account. I just want to move past this transaction. I will not be responding to any more of your emails, unless it is of some sort of a solution or if payment is made for the item. I would like neither of us to leave feedback and for me to file with ebay that we agreed to not complete the transaction. If you want to leave feedback, though, that is fine too. Whatever the instance, I am perfectly fine. If you seem to think that 1 negative feedback is going to hurt my reputation whatsoever as a seller, then you must be crazy. In the same regards, I know that one negative feedback will not hurt your record. I think it was your fault. If you were confused- you should have ASKED ME AHEAD OF TIME. since there was no mention of a box or a manual, there was an automatic grounds for confusion right there. that means ASK BEFORE YOU BUY. everyone else who asks before they purchase the item understands what they are purchasing. in the future, I am going to make it VERY clear what the buyer is getting because I will not be using stock photos anymore. As you can see from my auctions I have up right now (well have added since this little email debate), I have decided to use my own pictures as it avoids ANY confusion at all.


-(Name Removed)

[Drocket]

Definitely a deliberate scammer. The unfortunate reality is that there's absolutely nothing you can do about it: Powersellers make eBay money, so they're quite willing to look the other way for just about anything.

[gmzone]

Geez, talk about a long-winded e-mail. I think she is full of it about the feedback. Again, I think it was wrong to put "NEW" in the title (clearly not new merchandise), and while I disagree with her about not being totally upfront about the condition (in your favor chosen1s), and other sellers that do that, I do believe the buyer should ask every question humanly possible before a purchase, less be cheated or mislead in rare instances such as this.

[zionoverfire]

I'm amazed she's so blatant about it, it's funny as a low level seller ebay pushes you around but as a power seller you can outright lie and ebay supports you.

I guess it's especially funny since you are also a power seller with even more feedback. :lol:

I'd be tempted to pay for it at this point simply to avoid the NPB.

[io]

She's a little out of touch with reality. While it is true that she seems to have many satisfied customers, she has an awful lot of bad comments in her feedback. And look at all the nasty things she's left for other people! And she claims that her feedback says she is clearly in the right? Whatever.

Also, I love her in-store poll where 50% (if I'm reading it right) said the description should not have had "new" or that putting "new" in was questionable. That is a horrible result to base her snooty attitude on... Wierd.

Despite all her ranting, though, she IS offering you an out - you can skip getting the item and not have a NPB strike. She is offering to file the non-paying alert and then say that you agreed not to complete the transaction - in that case she gets her fees back and you do not get a strike. And she is agreeing to leave no feedback at all - which shows a bit that she DOES fear a negative from you, so I think you got to her there. Of course you have to trust her to go through with this!

I had come to a similar agreement with someone once (they didn't respond for 2 weeks after winning one of my auctions, then told me their car was impounded - I said, look, lets just call it off). So I filed the non-paying alert, waited 7 days, and then did the "mutual agreement" option - then the rat bastard REJECTED the "mutual agrerement" offer when forwarded to him from ebay. I really don't think he knew what he was doing - just being clueless. What happens in that case is the seller DOES NOT get the fees back and the buyer gets off with no penalty - THAT really sucks. I didn't want to risk a retaliatory negative so I left it alone after that.

[wubb]

I'd forward that e-mail to eBay with a note (above her long e-mail so it's not lost in the shuffle) that you think the listing clearly violates their misleading title policy as the item is not mint and new and as such the listing should be cancelled. (I linked to that page above.) And that you feel this seller is attempting to bully you into paying for an item from a listing which violates eBay's policy and desire 'to support an efficient shopping experience on eBay for all members by ensuring that listing titles accurately describe the item being listed.'

Highlight this part of her response as a practical admission by the seller that the item's title was misleading:

"I too had a poll in my store, and will be glad to send it to you. It comes with phone numbers for every user and I did not even mention it was my own auction. All I put was the description and the title and the game next to it, and asked people if they felt it was a fair description and title. While about 20 percent of people said the word new should not be in the title (even after looking at the game) and 30 more percent of the people said putting new in the title was questionable, I had just 10 percent of the people total (out of 60 people) say the item was not like new."

Half of HER OWN FREAKING CUSTOMERS agreed it's misleading.

"since there was no mention of a box or a manual, there was an automatic grounds for confusion right there."

^^ More admission by the seller that her listing was misleading/confusing

I know you mentioned you already contacted eBay, but I'd e-mail them again. Straight up how is putting 'New' in the listing title of an item that is used not misleading? Ask them to explain that for you.

If eBay still responds that the listing is kosher, I'd go ahead and pay her or take her up for her offer to cancel the sale. You really don't want to get NPB strikes on an account with as much FB as yours.

Also, I have to agree with her that the poll here is fairly irrelavent. All that matters is what eBay decides on the matter.

If you do leave her negative feedback, be sure to make it as nasty as possible as she will be sure to leave you something even nastier and then ask for a mutual withdraw.

[Quackzilla]

Beware, after cancelling or completing the sale don't leave any feedback, not even positive.

This ebayer seems like the type who leaves "revenge" feedback.

[chosen1s]

I'm so glad to see I'm not in the minority here. I'm trying out Ebay's "live online help" where you chat with an Ebay rep right now. I'm in line "waiting" for my turn to come up. I'll post in a few minutes and let you know what the Ebay rep said.

[Sailorneorune]

Sheesh... I don't deal with power sellers unless I HAVE TO. Currently trying to complete the Outlanders manga series from the late '80s, and the only people selling these books cheap for the most part are power sellers.
Poor communication, misleading headings... geez. I wish ebay would quit coddling unscrupulous individuals just because they make an assload of money, and hence an assload of Final Value cuts for ebay, but it's our word against theirs.

/poor college student having an internet garage sale
//12 feedback, 100% positive
///just Pokemon cards right now, soon to be selling DVDs

[chosen1s]

Well, that was worthless. Ebay chat guy says "Wait until you hear back from Safe Harbor, that's all you can do."

[Quackzilla]

Pokemon cards sell good, a few months ago I picked up a single pack and opened it, and much to my surprise I got an extremely rare "EX" shiny card.

I bought the pack for $3 and sold it open for $5.50.

[Sailorneorune]

Pokemon cards sell good, a few months ago I picked up a single pack and opened it, and much to my surprise I got an extremely rare "EX" shiny card.

I bought the pack for $3 and sold it open for $5.50.

No kidding... sold a fresh-from-the-pack Regirock EX for $11.00 shipped.

Back on-topic: if I could, chosen1s, I'd give you a machete to cut through the red tape. ebay has been pretty good to me thus far, especially in dealing with those damn spoof emails.

[Dead of Knight]

I suggest you do leave negative feedback, but only at the last possible milisecond you can leave feedback so she can't retaliate. This person is a bastard.

[b3b0p]

I see how this is misleading and I agree this is very shady and you should not have to pay her a cent, but what will you get more of your money's worth?

A Brand New copy of an old game (I am guessing you will never open it, put it on a shelf and show it off to all whom walk by trying to convince them how great and rare it is)

or

You can get a used copy play the crap out of. Log 100's of hours on it, enjoy it and gloat how you beat it with out ever losing a life...blah blah blah.


You know, for $15 you still get more for your money buying the used copy not to mention it sounds more impressive. At least that is my opinion. If I had any old games worth a lot of money I would sell them and buy the cart for 1/1000th of the cost (or just open and play them). Guess I am not into the whole collecting for collecting games thing because they are uber rare and valueable (games were meant to be played, sports cards were meant to be collected).

[shrike4242]

Fucking scam artists like this are what keep me from doing any real buying or selling on eBay.

[Graystone]

this all comes to what words mean to people as individuals. like new to me, means that it has the box game and booklets all in great shape. to other like new some could say they are just talking about the game itself not the case or booklet. the actual item not the packing. so it is a mix of words and the debate itself could go as deep as a discussion or religion. so just email the seller and tell them like new to you means all packing material, and like new to her meant just the game. and work it out from there.

[alonzomourning23]

(didn't read most of the posts)

Did she include a pic? I will omit things when listing, but I never use the term "new", or "mint" do describe them. I check the "used" option, but I never mention it in the title or post. I always include a pic of everything included. For example, if I'm selling a ps1 game without the manual I'll say "includes game and jewel case", but in the picture it clearly is missing the manual. I add "complete" to the titles if it's complete. If it's a snes game with a beat up box and no manual, I'll say "comes with cart and box", but the box is clearly shown in the pic as being beat up.

I've sold a few opened games as "new", but they were bought from eb and never used. I always said that though "bought at eb, they opened the game but it has never been used".

To me, there's a world of difference between simply not mentioning the bad, and actually trying to cover up the bad, which is what this person did.