Miyamoto says games are too long.

[dcfox]

I was over at gamespot when I saw this article http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/03/news_6126957.html

It struck me as kind of odd that he make a statement like that considering the Twilight Princess is expected to clock in at 70 hours, nearly twice as long as most RPGs. I also thought it was kind of strange that he would reference Halo. Unless he's talking about multiplayer, I thought Halo/Halo 2 were way too short.

[thingsfallnapart]

the simple answer is always the correct one.

assume T T P is NOT 70 hours.

[jennie25]

I agree with Miyamoto-san, I mean I will play Zelda despite it's length, but games are too long and involving,they need to be way more simplistic, and things aren't going to get better.

Maybe it's just me? and Miyamoto

[j.elles]

IGN said it would be that long. It was in March. AND remember he also said the new zelda would be in the wind waker style. HE L I E D. I know they said technically he didn't or something but thats bull. AND remember Nintendo baited and switched with the Zelda game too, saying we deicided to go in a new direction. Nintendo has a habit lately of saying one thing and doing another.

Just wait. We will see what nintendo has up it's sleave. But it is confirmed many times bigger then zelda: oot, and 70 hours of gameplay. IGN wuldn't lie. They work for nintendo know so they are able to confirm or deny it and would have by now.

[dcfox]

I agree with Miyamoto-san, I mean I will play Zelda despite it's length, but games are too long and involving,they need to be way more simplistic, and things aren't going to get better.

Maybe it's just me? and Miyamoto
I'm kind of torn on this issue. On one hand I think some games are way too short. The Metal Gear Solid games are a good example. In my first playthrough, I beat Sons of Liberty in about 14 hours. Considering that there was alot of cutscenes and cinematics, I felt it was to short, that's not to say I didn't like it. On the other hand, I hate it when games are padded out with bad levels or lots of back tracking just to make it seem longer.

[evilmregg]

It depends on the type of game. I like my RPGs to clock in around the 40-hour mark, but action games I tend to get tired of at around ten hours.

[dschroll]

IGN said it would be that long. It was in March. AND remember he also said the new zelda would be in the wind waker style. HE L I E D. I know they said technically he didn't or something but thats bull. AND remember Nintendo baited and switched with the Zelda game too, saying we deicided to go in a new direction. Nintendo has a habit lately of saying one thing and doing another.

Just wait. We will see what nintendo has up it's sleave. But it is confirmed many times bigger then zelda: oot, and 70 hours of gameplay. IGN wuldn't lie. They work for nintendo know so they are able to confirm or deny it and would have by now.


Firt off, Miyamoto never lied about Zelda. Nintendo said the next Zelda would be in a similar style as wind waker. You know which Zelda came next? 4 Swords, which did contain many of the same animations as Wind Waker.

Second, Nintendo got so many complaints from reviewers and fans about the cell shaded Zelda(I still don't know why as it looked brilliant IMO) that they ultimately decided to go with a more realistic looking game just to please everyone who passed up on Wind Waker due to its graphics.

I doubt The Twighlight Princess requires 70 hours so much as it might offer 70 hours. Look at the GTA games. You can complete all the story stuff in 15-20 hours. But there are so many optional things to do that you can play the games for much much longer. I have a feeling the new Zelda will offer tons of optional things that can extend the game longer to those that want it.

Finally, there is no way IGN works for Nintendo. When you look at the other IGN channels and see how they go ga ga over Sony and Mircrosoft stuff, it seems that they're actually always a little tougher on Nintendo.

[coolsteel]

I'm starting to wonder if he has even ever played Halo or GTA, his statement can apply to GTA but Halo? Christ the game was exactly what is he talking about, very short and easy to pick up and play.

[kev]

I don't care how long a game is, I care how much replay value the game has. That's what missing today. Games are so heavy on presentation and so light on gameplay now that they have to make them long because they know few people will bother to play a second time.

That said, I'm sure TP will be around 20 hours at most like every other game I've ever played that promised 70-100 hours. I suppose if you had the patience of Job and willingly walked to every possible coordinate on the map you could fill the time.

[David85]

Has everyone that works at Nintendo gone completely dumb?

We don't want to make games that everyone would like and that would sell. We make games but don't care if they sell, that's the Nintendo way. They are losing their minds and gonig to lose the war. The only reason why anyone will buy their next system is if it's cheap, and if the old Nintendo games are truely free. Which I think is a lie.

[Rodimus]

Maybe he means games in "general" are to long. Of course some games have to be longer than 15-20 hours, like RPGs. I don't think he should have singled out Halo, it makes him sound kinda bitter.

However I do agree with him, some games are just to long and they don't need to be, but the major titles (Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Zelda etc.) seem to get the time completion right on, so you get your money's worth, but not to long so you get bored.

[dschroll]

We don't want to make games that everyone would like and that would sell. We make games but don't care if they sell, that's the Nintendo way.

I refer again to my post about the Twighlight Princess. The realistic graphics alone proves Nintendo listens to their fans about stuff. There was too much uproar about the cell shaded wind waker that they delivered the type of Zelda game most people were expecting.

[I AM WILLIAM H. MACY]

I Think You're Too Long!

[cgpwns]

Nintendo has previously stated that it will continue to make games for the hardcore gamer like Zelda, in addition to simplistic and engaging games for people who aren't gamers yet.

[j.elles]

If you read my post closer I said that technically he didn't lie, but most people thought he did, especially since TPrincess has been IN development since BEFORE WIND WAKER was RELEASED. So the complaints had some role but not much. The game did sell over 3 million copies. Also, TPrincess was the game he was talking about because the game he was talking about in the conversation was the sequel to Wind Waker, or in this case prequel apperently. And we'll see about the game time.

BUT IGN works with Nintendo. That's a fact, there setting up the online network for them and because of that have to have access to the hardware. So what the hell are you talking about, Pay Attention to the News before you comment about something being true or not.

AND I was just trying to illustrate that Nintendo has had a habit of tricking people lately. The TPrincess game, the wind waker game announced after the Ganon Link fight at the e3 previous to Wind Waker announcement etc. . .

ALSO Miyamoto said at the time that NO mature style Zelda game was in development. And it came out with the announcement of Twilight Princess that it had been in development since well before Wind Waker was released. Therefore he L I E S, or at least tricks and misleads. We will all just have to wait and see, what he and Nintendo have in store for the market.

[sisco1986]

I do some what agree that games you can just pick up and play for a few minutes then turn off is lacking, but as for games being to long I don't really agree. I do have a busy life, but I always find room for gaming so if the game is 10 hours or 100 I'll still be playing it as long as the game is good.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

I'm kind of torn on this issue. On one hand I think some games are way too short. The Metal Gear Solid games are a good example. In my first playthrough, I beat Sons of Liberty in about 14 hours. Considering that there was alot of cutscenes and cinematics, I felt it was to short, that's not to say I didn't like it. On the other hand, I hate it when games are padded out with bad levels or lots of back tracking just to make it seem longer.

Wow, you must have really hated Halo. :lol:

Personally I like short games. I'd never finish anything if they were all 20+ hours.

[AlbinoNinja]

i want a short game with plenty of unlockables or a long game that's very non-linear to keep my interest

[Rig]

"A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as Halo or Grand Theft Auto, that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play."

I don't think he's bashing Halo or GTA. He saying that games like them can be "big and expansive" but some people may not want to play through them. That pretty much sums me up. I will never sit and play through an entire GTA, and I really don't care for Halo, so I suppose I fit into the same boat he does. I also agree that many games are too long, becuase I have work and school to attend to. I just don't have the time for games like I used to, and that's why I prefer a good 10-15 hour game max.

[drone8888]

Yeah,... I used to play games like a madman.
Then came CAG.

Actually,... after Final Fantasy 10, I really didn't feel like playing RPGs anymore. It really killed it for me. I kept buying them, and getting half way through them,... to find that it wasn't satisfying anymore.
Playing a game to justify the price isn't fun.

Now, having so many systems,.... it is VERY hard to pick up a single player game.
Why should I when I can pop in a LIVE game, and have a blast the whole time???
When I'm out,... I toss in Wario Touched, or Lumines.

It's just life needs to be lived,... and when a game becomes your life, it's not a pasttime anymore. There aren't those gratifying moments that the old school games provided.
Man,.... I'd love to play some Super Dodgeball at a local arcade with my friends,... but I can't.
With so many great looking games out,... I couldn't even get a single player to play it on the GBA/GBPlayer, as it was too pixelated for them.

Let's play DOA Volleyball instead..... is what I get.

Seriously though,.... games aren't games anymore,... they're interactive media.
Look at the PS3..... playable Spiderman movies??? WTH??? Who really wants that??? It looks great and all,... but at what cost to we the gamer's will it be??
An $80 playable CG movie, on an $500 system is not my kind of fun. I'll stick with watching my movies.

When I want to relax, I pop in a movie,... when I want FUN,... I want to play a game.

[j.elles]

Ya, even if games look good they can be crap. That's important to remember. And I think I agree, He was just saying that for the most part games are getting to long, and fun simple games like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Wario Ware, and Lumines are needed over the GTA's and such.

Is kind of odd though, Mario and Zelda have always been long.

[c]

"A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as Halo or Grand Theft Auto, that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play."

I don't think he's bashing Halo or GTA. He saying that games like them can be "big and expansive" but some people may not want to play through them. That pretty much sums me up. I will never sit and play through an entire GTA, and I really don't care for Halo, so I suppose I fit into the same boat he does. I also agree that many games are too long, becuase I have work and school to attend to. I just don't have the time for games like I used to, and that's why I prefer a good 10-15 hour game max.
Good, what the hell, I'm glad ONE person agrees with me here, (oh, drone8888 agrees too, yay.) Miyamoto said, "There's not a lot I want to play now," and I completely agree. Why the hell am I going to shell out $300+ for a system with games that "anyone using a computer can do". I own FPSs, I own racing games, I own RPGs, I own Street Fighter games, I own all kinds of sports games, I own Mario games, I own Zelda games, I own Metroid games.... I have enough already!!

Miyamoto wants to breathe fresh life into this industry of the exact same games over and over and over. GTA and Halo are not bad games, but I don't play them at all. I have literally hundreds of games that I don't play because none of them interest me. Do you know what does still interest me? No, you don't, but I will tell you: the NES. The only game I have had any desire to play lately is Super Mario Bros. Am I a Nintendo fanboy? STFU NO. I just enjoy sitting down with a game and playing it. I don't want to think about OMFG I NEED MORE HAND GRENADES TO WIN, I just want to sit down, play a game, have fun, and be done with it.

Video games nowadays are redundant and boring. I agree with Miyamoto, and am very happy that there is at least one person in the games industry who feels the same way I do about current games. I want fun games. I can play a complex, cutscene-ridden game every once in a great while, but that would mean I am buying ONE game out of all the games produced per year. And it's usually an RPG. Where does that leave like every other game ever? Not in my collection, and not making any of my money. Unless I can buy it for like $5, which is why I have "hundereds of games that don't interest me". You just can't pass up a game for $5.

Plus, for pete's sake, Aonuma is the f'ing director of Twilight Princess, not Miyamoto, so he's not a hypocrite... Correct me if I'm wrong.

I just realized me typing all of this is pointless and is going to be picked apart by people just like me who happen to be on the other side of this poorly-composed 'argument' that I have constructed. yet! i am going to post it anyway. what a waste of time.

[greyzieoriental]

same thing with me, funny thing is, i just picked up and played super mario bros on my gba the other day and i still have dozens of games on the xbox and gamecube that i dont even feel like playing becuz i have no interest or they are too long, games i considered playinig again recently have been super punch out, mario all stars, pokemon puzzle league, games that i can pick up and play, but i dont know y, Zelda, MArio games are the exception, I will actually spend time to beat those kinds of games becuz i think they are great, i think the fact that u can pick up and play them every other day and beat a level or 2 helps too. And the games are so similiar to each other that i dont have to relearn new buttons and moves just to enjoy it. And 10-20 hour games sound good to me.

I dont know whats the last RPG i played but the length really made me stop and gaining levels fighting the same enemies was pointless to me when i should be able to progress without doing that.
I never beat a GTA becuz they are too long, the replay wasnt there for me.
Halo 2 is pick up and play, the enviroments are big and all but there is only one path to go, i beat it just to beat it, not the same with Halo 1 where i beat it on every difficulty cuz it was new to me and the first time i've enjoyed co-op FPS since duke nukem 64(which was not realy enjoyable at all)

and C at least u tell it how u think it is, better than having all the ppl agree with the same shit or following the crowd or just arguing just to argue

[Reality's Fringe]

I don't care what his personal preferences are for the most part. He's a big part of Nintendo, but he isn't Nintendo as a whole. I find that I don't have time to play long ass games like I used to, but there is still a place in my heart for a good RPG or "longer than usual" action game. Regardless, I don't care what Nintendo does as long as they give me another Paper Mario.

[easy_g]

It's funny, even though I typically am disappointed by short games, they have been the only type I've played in the past 6 months. Outside of MGS3 i've played Ico, Counter Strike Source (pick up and play 30 minutes before going to sleep), Advance Wars, Gradius V, Katamari Damacy, and a little bit of Super Smash Brothers. I just haven't had time for any long games, yet these games have more than satisfied my need to play games. Each one has offered something completely different yet easy to play.

But that doesn't mean I only want these types of games. There will be times when I'll actually have time to play games (like hopefully this summer or if I ever get an easy schedule for school. . .doubtful though HA) and I'll want a long game. So hopefully Miyamoto will not try and turn all of Nintendo's games into short pick up and play games. At least for now we can be sure that there will be some good deep Nintendo games coming on the Revolution (Metroid Prime, Zelda).

[Mr Unoriginal]

I think he's right as well. Especially about Halo. Even though it is 'short' compared to many other games, the devs seemed to try to add length by making you go through the same levels basically twice and making some of the levels painfully long. How many of those damn exploding hopping things do you have to kill? I could play a game for 40+ hours but only if it is good for those 40 hours. If a game is repetitive I could probably only put up with it for 5-7.

[javeryh]

He is right. Games should be 10-12 hours MAX.

[FriskyTanuki]

It struck me as kind of odd that he make a statement like that considering the Twilight Princess is expected to clock in at 70 hours, nearly twice as long as most RPGs.
Shigeru isn't really working on TP, as it's Eiji Aonuma that's the producer and is leading the project. I don't mind short games as long as they're either fun or they're short enough for me to get through it and not dwell on it that much.

[dcfox]

Shigeru isn't really working on TP, as it's Eiji Aonuma that's the producer and is leading the project. I don't mind short games as long as they're either fun or they're short enough for me to get through it and not dwell on it that much.
Someone mentioned that before. I'll change the title.

[BLarR]

Let the simpletons play their Pikmin, I'll stick to my 80 hr plus games. Nintendo seems to be on a crusade to bash everything they aren't doing, internet and now this, damn, aren't they supposed to be the cherry ones in the industry.

[redgopher]

I agree with Miyamoto-san, I mean I will play Zelda despite it's length, but games are too long and involving,they need to be way more simplistic, and things aren't going to get better.

Maybe it's just me? and Miyamoto

You're both wrong. Both lengths are good. I'm playing Final Fantasy VII right now, almost at 20 hours, and I intend on playing the hell out of it until I finish.

[manofpeace20]

This is an interesting topic. I thought a long game would have more replay value than a shorter game, but after some thinking that isn't the case. The last game I invested alot of time into was San Andreas and it took me about 45 hours to complete the game with 61% of the game finished. I will not likely touch that game for a long time now. On the other hand, I played and beat Sons of Liberty about 15 times and the length of the game was about 7-12 hours.

As I have gotten older, I just don't have the time to embark on long games all the time. How would I even keep up with Morrowind? Also as others mentioned earlier, I have over 100 games dating back to the NES. Wanna know what games I keep falling back on? The sports games!

[David85]

If he wants shorter games than does thta mean we get cheaper games?

I mean really no one wants a short game and buy $50. There is this Dreamcast launch game dealing with pengins racing. Great game, but there are only like 5 levels. No one whats a great game that is so short you can beet it in a day for $50.

[Quackzilla]

Says the guy who made the 60 hour fetch-quest "Wind Waker".

[Rei no Otaku]

Miyamoto wants to breathe fresh life into this industry of the exact same games over and over and over.

Ah, so that's why he's been repackaging the same Zelda game for 7 years now.

Anyway, I guess I'm the minority but I prefer longer games. If I'm shelling out any amount of money for a game, I want it to last me. No, I don't have as much time to play games as I did when I was a kid, but then that's why I own a memory card. So I can come back to it when I do. I do enjoy short action games. I'm a huge fan of the Zone of the Enders games for example. But I still want my big RPGs, and my expansive GTA style games as well.

[drumbandit]

Says the guy who made the 60 hour fetch-quest "Wind Waker".

Ah, so that's why he's been repackaging the same Zelda game for 7 years now.


Miyamoto hasn't been directly involved with a Zelda game since Ocarina of Time. Zelda is Aonuma's baby these days.

[Reality's Fringe]

Ah, so that's why he's been repackaging the same Zelda game for 7 years now.

Yes, because every other company is so innovative it's blowing my mind up.

Anyway, I guess I'm the minority but I prefer longer games. If I'm shelling out any amount of money for a game, I want it to last me. No, I don't have as much time to play games as I did when I was a kid, but then that's why I own a memory card. So I can come back to it when I do. I do enjoy short action games. I'm a huge fan of the Zone of the Enders games for example. But I still want my big RPGs, and my expansive GTA style games as well.

The problem with those who like "short" games isn't in the actual length to completetion, it's the length of duration you have to play it to accomplish something. For example, I can sit down and play Pikmin or R-Type Delta for about 10-20 minutes and get to the next area or find an important item. For an RPG, it could be more than 5 times that, and save points may not be plentiful. I like a good RPG too, but sitting through Xenosaga's cinemas made me want to vomit with rage.

[Rei no Otaku]

Yes, because every other company is so innovative it's blowing my mind up.

And? That's a kind of silly statement. Just becase not every company is 100% innovative it gives Nintendo a license to pump out the same game over and over? Not that I even care to be honest. A good game, is a good game innovative or not. I was just commenting on that one thing.

[BIG5]

I sort of agree. I spent more time with shorter games because they're more fun to replay. I don't usually finish a 40+ hour rpg only to start again, but I can play games Zelda 1 and Super Metroid over and over.

[Reality's Fringe]

And? That's a kind of silly statement. Just becase not every company is 100% innovative it gives Nintendo a license to pump out the same game over and over? Not that I even care to be honest. A good game, is a good game innovative or not. I was just commenting on that one thing.

Sorry, but I hear this arguement thrown around a great deal and it has 0 validity. People fault Nintendo for using franchise games, but in reality they're the same people who buy games that are just reskinned. Be it platformers, FPS games, sports games, or even RPGs. I agree with the last part of your statement, and would like to remind everyone that change isn't always a good thing.

[mookiemeister]

There is no game that is too long if the game is good. Conversely, there is no game that is too short if the game is bad.

[Kayden]

I Think You're Too Long!

I've heard that one before... ;)

I like long games. Not games that are long for the sake of being long, but games that just have a shit load of content. I've literally invested well over 1000 hours in diablo 2. FFX is at about 130 hours? Disgaea should be about 100... 50-60 in Star Ocean 3.

[Zenithian Legend]

I used to like games that were 40 hours +, as I felt like I was getting more bang for my buck. These days I tend to prefer a shorter game since most games I have I got dirt cheap (gee I wonder why) and I just don't have enough time to experience it all. However, if there's a game I really like, then I prefer it be longer. Such as Gladius, which lasted over 40 hours for me and I replayed it with the other character, bringing it up to an 80 hour game. I guess I'm a fickle pony on this one. I do like the idea of a 70 hour Zelda game though, as that means it should take at least 50 hours to get through it, and that sounds perfect to me, Zelda deserves a long and involving game.

[epobirs]

If he wants shorter games than does thta mean we get cheaper games?

I mean really no one wants a short game and buy $50. There is this Dreamcast launch game dealing with pengins racing. Great game, but there are only like 5 levels. No one whats a great game that is so short you can beet it in a day for $50.

For a $50 one-day experience it had better end with my pants down around my ankles and me in dire need of food, a shower, and sleep in that order. A defibrillator and an adrenalin injector may be called into service along the way.

[Kayden]

For a $50 one-day experience it had better end with my pants down around my ankles and me in dire need of food, a shower, and sleep in that order. A defibrillator and an adrenalin injector may be called into service along the way.

:lol: Epo made a funny! :lol:

[Dr Mario Kart]

How much does it cost to get into the amusement parks these day? Isnt it something similar.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

How much does it cost to get into the amusement parks these day? Isnt it something similar.

It's all about personal preference. You can break down any entertainment into dollar per hour arguments but the experiences can be so vastly different that they can't be compared.

For instance, it costs damn near $40 to get into Bush Gardens and I typically spend around 8 hours in the park. So I get entertainment for $5 an hour. If I paid $50 for a 40 hour RPG, it breaks down to $1.25 an hour. That's clearly the best bang for the buck, right? Then again, can playing an RPG be compared to dropping 210 feet on Apollo's Chariot?

[Reality's Fringe]

Then again, can playing an RPG be compared to dropping 210 feet on Apollo's Chariot?

:rofl:

I'm not immature, I swear!

[red flare graf]

I've got to agree with him, though. Games are way too long, and I rarely finish any because of it. I don't see how anyone with a semi-busy life can be expected to finish hardly any of them.

All I really play anymore is online multiplayer.. that's about the only thing you can pick up and put down nowadays.

[electrictroy]

"There's not a lot I want to play now," he told me recently. "A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as 'Halo' or 'Grand Theft Auto,' that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play." What he misses, he said, are games you can pick up and play – something the company hopes to accomplish with its next generation home console, currently code-named "Revolution".
I agree 100%! I am sick-and-tired of playing games that are so s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d to fill 40 hours that they are boring (example: Wind Waker). Most of the time I don't finish them. Those ultra-long 40-hour games are about as much fun as listening to a college lecture. They are stretched too thin.



I prefer games that are short, but infinitely replayable. i.e. FUN. Like Beyond Good & Evil. Or Mario 64. Or Rez. Or Monkey Ball. My favorite games, that I still remember 20 years later (Pirates, Red Storm Rising, Adventure) only took ~4 hours to beat.

But each time you played, the story was different. You never knew what was going to happen, so you could play hundreds of times. It was always fresh.

Shortness of a game doesn't matter if you've got infinite replayability. 4 hours * 100 replays = 400 hours of game time.




troy

[Mookyjooky]

I agree 100%! I am sick-and-tired of playing games that are so s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d to fill 40 hours that they are boring (example: Wind Waker). Most of the time I don't finish them. Those ultra-long 40-hour games are about as much fun as listening to a college lecture. They are stretched too thin.



I prefer games that are short, but infinitely replayable. i.e. FUN. Like Beyond Good & Evil. Or Mario 64. Or Rez. Or Monkey Ball. My favorite games, that I still remember 20 years later (Pirates, Red Storm Rising, Adventure) only took ~4 hours to beat.

But each time you played, the story was different. You never knew what was going to happen, so you could play hundreds of times. It was always fresh.

Shortness of a game doesn't matter if you've got infinite replayability. 4 hours * 100 replays = 400 hours of game time.




troy

Yea, I was sthe same about wind waker....I got all the way to the end, and when I found out I needed to find all these peices to complete the "True Master Sword!!!" I was like, fuck this filler crap....

I would rather play a game that got right to the point, than having you sail all over for nothing.

Its the same reason why I dont like Halo 1, that much...it was a 6 hour game stretched to be a 20 hour game. For no reason at all.

Metal of Honor : AA or Call of Duty on the other hand were like 6-10 hours at best but kept me on the edge of my computer chair for the whole duration....thats a REAL game.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Its the same reason why I dont like Halo 1, that much...it was a 6 hour game stretched to be a 20 hour game. For no reason at all.

Correction: It was a 3 hour game stretched to be a 10 hour game.

And some people still wanted more. :roll:

[Mookyjooky]

Correction: It was a 3 hour game stretched to be a 10 hour game.

And some people still wanted more. :roll:

Well dont get me wrong, the sandbox of the game (meaning the AI, the physics and gameplay elements) were fucking awesome....

The Halo franchise is an awesome franchise....it just needed some timed events to make it more epic, instead of relying on the AI to do all the work.

It could stand to be a little more tactical, in the way of "Republic Commando" so you could tell your troops where to go when they dropped in...that would be awesome.

[Kayden]

You just confused me... You don't want the AI to react realistically... but would instead prefer to have more scripted events? That totally works against the last 5-10 years of gaming. Scripted events are bad. They make sure the game is the exact same every freaking time you play it. On the off chance there is a mistake in the execution (you get in the way) it can fuck up the rest of the game because the game can't cope with change.

[Mookyjooky]

You just confused me... You don't want the AI to react realistically... but would instead prefer to have more scripted events? That totally works against the last 5-10 years of gaming. Scripted events are bad. They make sure the game is the exact same every freaking time you play it. On the off chance there is a mistake in the execution (you get in the way) it can fuck up the rest of the game because the game can't cope with change.

Doing it one way, and not the other is the issue.

I dont want all scripted events, but I DO want some....I also want the AI to react realistically...but I want the excitment that only scripted events can give.

Think Metal of Honor : AA or Call of Duty....when you play those, you feel like your in the game.

In Halo, you feel like your being led place to place, with just a new set of enemies every round.

I want it to be an all out war against the aliens, not a boxed in battle.

Scripted explosions, and non-FMV voice actions pull you in....

Having the NPC's telling me to follow them to blow up such and such without going to an FMV is complete immersion... I would love it.

[electrictroy]

I prefer scripted events that are randomized.

i.e. There might be a man hiding around the corner, about to jump & kill you... or not. Maybe he's hiding someplace else. Randomized.

troy

[Mookyjooky]

I prefer scripted events that are randomized.

i.e. There might be a man hiding around the corner, about to jump & kill you... or not. Maybe he's hiding someplace else. Randomized.

troy

I could be down for that, maybe the bridge blows up and you have to enter the castle through the moat....maybe not....good idea.

[epobirs]

How much does it cost to get into the amusement parks these day? Isnt it something similar.

It's expensive enough that most people would want to get there before opening and be there all day. Those people are also among the most profitable because they're most likely to shell out the most cash on food and stuff during that time.

http://www.sixflags.com/parks/magicmountain/TicketInfo/seasonpasses.html

If you live close by the site though, and really like roller coasters, you can get a great value from a season pass. I live just a few miles from Six Flags Magic Mountain and could get dropped off by bus (to avoid the parking fee) within a 1/4 mile of the entrance from a stop just a few hundred yards from my front door. It's a hell of a bargain if you really like that sort of thing. You can go for just a few hours any day you get the urge during the main season.

I did about ten years ago. I lived about thirty miles away then but my sister was very close to MM (in the same house I later inhabited, in fact) so I'd get her to drop me off and pick me up after just a few hours on a weekend day. It was great for a few years but I later lost interest and haven't bothered. Strangely, the the credit union I use for my banking has its local branch in the back area of the park. It's in a semi-permanent trailer installation with a big loop coaster looming so close by the building rattle every time the cars go by, which is about every three minutes. I can only hope the people working there get paid a little better than at other branches, which are mostly in the office sections of film and TV studios.

Anyways, the season pass approach might fall under the 'high repeat playability' category.

[pumbaa]

Perfect example. Psychonauts. The game clocked in at around 12 hours for me... and I loved every second of it. It was chock full of amazing ideas and innovative mechanics... very well implemented.

I think the problem with "long" games is that MOST "long" games are only long through artificial means. Backtracking, doing the same thing over again, over played mechanics. We only tolerate "long" games on the basis that we are getting storyline in return. Almost every single turn-based RPG lives or dies by this fact. You're basically doing the same thing over and over again in Final Fantasy X... but the story is driving you to the end.

Very rarely can exellent gameplay ideas last beyond the 10-12 hour range without something totally new added (see Zelda's various gizmos and gadgets). I think this is what Miyamoto is talking about.

[electrictroy]

I like long games. Not games that are long for the sake of being long, but games that just have a shit load of content. I've literally invested well over 1000 hours in diablo 2. FFX is at about 130 hours? Disgaea should be about 100... 50-60 in Star Ocean 3.Translation: FFX/Disgaea/SO3 = ~40 hours of actual fun & ~100 hours of boring minigames or sidequests

;-)

I *don't* like long games:
- I thought Metroid Prime was too long at 15 hours. I prefer the shorter 5 hour Super Metroid and Metroid Zero.

- Ocarina of Time was a decent length at 40 (because there were many dungeons to solve). But Wind Waker should have been chopped at 20, since it had fewer dungeons. Hours 21-40 are just "busywork" to stretch the game & were mind-numbingly boring.

My favorite games of this past generation are mostly short:
- Ico (~10 hours)
- Eternal Darkness (~15 hours)
- Rez (~1 hour)
- Space Channel 5 (~2 hours)
- DDR (~ 1/2 hour)

I like adrenaline, and these games provide it.

troy

[Kayden]

Translation: FFX/Disgaea/SO3 = ~40 hours of actual fun & ~100 hours of boring minigames or sidequests

;-)

I *don't* like long games:
- I thought Metroid Prime was too long at 15 hours. I prefer the shorter 5 hour Super Metroid and Metroid Zero.

- Ocarina of Time was a decent length at 40 (because there were many dungeons to solve). But Wind Waker should have been chopped at 20, since it had fewer dungeons. Hours 21-40 are just "busywork" to stretch the game & were mind-numbingly boring.

My favorite games of this past generation are mostly short:
- Ico (~10 hours)
- Eternal Darkness (~15 hours)
- Rez (~1 hour)
- Space Channel 5 (~2 hours)
- DDR (~ 1/2 hour)

I like adrenaline, and these games provide it.

troy

Good gawd WW stretched on too long... I wouldn't have even finished it if link wasn't so cute. :oops:

Disgeae is only as long as you want it to be. You can beat the real game in 20 hours or less I'd bet. I'm trying to level up to kill the level 6000 boss that has like 60million hp :shock: Pretty much the same thing with SOTET.

Diablo 2 takes less than an hour to beat normal if you know what you're doing, but for me that game was all about killing demons by the hundreds and finding cool stuff.

[electrictroy]

I like the RPGs that are self-playing. You reach the final boss & he's too strong? Just turn on "auto" for 5 hours, and go watch some TV.



-----> Actually a better solution would be to have variable difficulties:
Easy = multiply all enemy Hit Points by 0.7
Normal = no multiplication
Hard = enemy HP times 1.5

FF6 had normal & hard modes (albeit in separate carts). I think all RPGs should follow the same design.

troy

[Kayden]

I like the RPGs that are self-playing. You reach the final boss & he's too strong? Just turn on "auto" for 5 hours, and go watch some TV.



-----> Actually a better solution would be to have variable difficulties:
Easy = multiply all enemy Hit Points by 0.7
Normal = no multiplication
Hard = enemy HP times 1.5

FF6 had normal & hard modes (albeit in separate carts). I think all RPGs should follow the same design.

troy

You want a game that plays itself? Can I beat you in the skull with a tackhammer for that statement? :roll:

[maxflight]

You want a game that plays itself? Can I beat you in the skull with a tackhammer for that statement? :roll:

just look at the PS3 E3 demos then ;)

[electrictroy]

You want a game that plays itself? Can I beat you in the skull with a tackhammer for that statement? :roll:No, that's not what I said.

I said: "You reach the final boss & he's too strong? Just turn on 'auto' for 5 hours, and go watch some TV." The game I am playing now, Tales of Destiny, is like that, and it saved my 5 hours of tedious random battles, for leveling up.

I ALSO said:

"A better solution would be to have variable difficulties. FF6 had normal & hard modes (albeit in separate carts). I think all RPGs should follow the same design."



Now do you understand? I think it's clear that I think random battles are tedious, and I prefer games that eliminate that tedium... preferably with fewer random battles & variable difficulty.

troy

[Brak]

We all recall Miyamoto's stance on online gaming, right? ;)