Fatally Flawed Video Game Rating System Must Change

[CheapyD]

New editorial from http://www.gamepolitics.com/

Fatally Flawed Video Game Rating System Must Change

Here is the crux of the article:

"So it comes down to cash. While the ESRB has a purported role as a watchdog agency, the companies it is "watching" are paying its bills - and its payroll. The game companies are charged rating fees and the ESA, the video game industry's lobbying group, makes up the difference. Is it any wonder why we can't get answers to the tough questions?"

Check out the whole article (http://www.gamepolitics.com/)

[Quackzilla]

Not really, they just need to give shock-value games like GTA and Postal the AO (adults only) rating instead of M.

[evilmax17]

Didn't read the article, but why not abolish the ratings system all together and force parents to take an interest in the things that their kids do, instead of relying on a ratings board to make decisions for them? Heaven forbid parents take responsibility!

[megashock5]

I don't know, the ESRB rating is *far* easier to see than a movie rating on a DVD case. Plus they actually list what content is in the game to justify that rating. Movies don't do this, music doesn't do this, books don't do this.

I think the industry has done it's job, now maybe the media can educate people about this ratings system instead of trying to blame all games for violent behavior. Parents need to be a lot more active as well. Even if I weren't a gamer, I could still see some big letter on the cover of a game my child bought and check to see what it meant. And maybe they should actually check and see what their kids are playing.

When I was 14 my parents took away my Purple Rain record becuase of some of the lyrics they heard. What would you do if you found your kids watching a tv show that was meant for adults? The same thing applies here.

My son isn't old enough to play when I'm not watching him, and when he is I'll keep any games that are inappropriate for him separate from the rest. And if he's caught playing them, he'll get punished. Heck, the kid's only four and he already knows that he isn't allowed to play anything that doesn't have an E on it. It's called parenting.

[8ballGuy]

Didn't read the article, but why not abolish the ratings system all together and force parents to take an interest in the things that their kids do, instead of relying on a ratings board to make decisions for them? Heaven forbid parents take responsibility!

but its so much easier for them to blaim the media

[WhipSmartBanky]

I don't know, the ESRB rating is *far* easier to see than a movie rating on a DVD case. Plus they actually list what content is in the game to justify that rating. Movies don't do this, music doesn't do this, books don't do this.

I think the industry has done it's job, now maybe the media can educate people about this ratings system instead of trying to blame all games for violent behavior. Parents need to be a lot more active as well. Even if I weren't a gamer, I could still see some big letter on the cover of a game my child bought and check to see what it meant. And maybe they should actually check and see what their kids are playing.

When I was 14 my parents took away my Purple Rain record becuase of some of the lyrics they heard. What would you do if you found your kids watching a tv show that was meant for adults? The same thing applies here.

My son isn't old enough to play when I'm not watching him, and when he is I'll keep any games that are inappropriate for him separate from the rest. And if he's caught playing them, he'll get punished. Heck, the kid's only four and he already knows that he isn't allowed to play anything that doesn't have an E on it. It's called parenting.
:applause:

[psiufoxx2]

Didn't read the article, but why not abolish the ratings system all together and force parents to take an interest in the things that their kids do, instead of relying on a ratings board to make decisions for them? Heaven forbid parents take responsibility!

I understand your post was tongue-in-cheek.. but that's not what the ESRB does. They don't take responsibility away from parents, they simply supply them with enough information to make an informed decision.

Why the ESRB? Well - it was created as the move from 2D to 3D allowed for more graphically realistic worlds, and as the "kids" who played games in the 70s and 80s grew up and wanted more engaging entertainment. Parents were concerned about the potential use of sex and violence in these games (after Mortal Kombat stormed the market) and hearings were held in the US Senate. In order to prevent bans of video game sales and 1st amendment rights infractions, the videogame trade association (now known as the ESA) created the ESRB to regulate game ratings. Their still-evolving rating system relates game content to a gamer's age.

There really are only 3 options we can apply to the future of game ratings:




Leave things as they are - continue the use of a rating system that informs parents and allows them to be the censors.
Improve the enforcement of ratings, whether through fines or other legal actions.
Government regulations of videogame sales and purchases.
I would personally choose the first option, and perhaps the second. I would not like to see our industry fall under the third. Would you?

[rabidmonkeys]

Movies don't do this

I think you need to pay closer attention to the back of dvd cases and previews. Read them aloud the next time your are the movies, its a fun game. Twister is a alltime classic it says something like "intense storm violence".

[psiufoxx2]

It's called parenting.

You are absolutely correct. I applaud you. More parents need to learn that unless you guide your children, you are not parenting. You are just acting as custodian.

[Apossum]

how is it flawed? because it's funded by game companies? That's like saying the police are funded by our tax dollars, thus law enforcement is fundamentally flawed. wtf.

These people will not rest until every game box is just a huge "M" or "T" with the title of the game in a small box in the corner.

The system is good, but parents still don't use it or care about it. the only bad mistake I've seen is putting "Nudity" on DOA:XBV-- how many "Whats teh nude code?" posts did that spawn :roll:

[Scrubking]

Fatally Flawed Review System Must Change

Well seeing how the gaming media also have their bills paid by the same companies they are reviewing we should address that as well. Frankly, I think the gaming media problem is a real issue that doesn't get talked about enough and so many gamers never stop to consider.

As far as the ESRB goes, I think they are good and I don't see what the problem is. Is GTA not a mature game? Where is the horrible negligence, bias or whatever?

[psiufoxx2]

The only problem I HAVE seen in this ESRB system is that they are not supplied with final builds of games. They usually pre-screen clips from a final game, and are supplied with alpha builds for reviewing. As we all know, a LOT can change between alpha and Gold Master. Maybe they should be required to see the final build?

[Gothic Walrus]

I think you need to pay closer attention to the back of dvd cases and previews. Read them aloud the next time your are the movies, its a fun game. Twister is a alltime classic it says something like "intense storm violence".
The ratings aren't always easy to find, though.

Random DVD taken from our tower (LOTR: The Two Towers) shows that yes, the rating and description of contents are on the case...but on the back, towards the bottom, and in small print. It doesn't stand out in any way, not like the comparatively large ESRB logo on the front of game boxes.

From what I've seen, this isn't an exception.

[MaxBiaggi2]

It's called parenting.

Come now, how are the scheister lawyers supposed to stay in business if responsibility for their kids' behavior is shifted from stores/developers/etc. to the children's parents?

[megashock5]

Come now, how are the scheister lawyers supposed to stay in business if responsibility for their kids' behavior is shifted from stores/developers/etc. to the children's parents?


Amen, brother. Sad, isn't it?

[whitereflection]

Did anyone actually read the article? He's not saying that the ESRB does a bad job of informing consumers of games' content. The article is related to another recently reported one that talks about hidden sex animations in GTA's game code and how it slipped past the ESRB, and the ESRB's reluctance to discuss their ongoing investigation of the matter. The writer insinuates the reason for the latter is because the ESRB is trying to protect the reputation of game companies.

[dafoomie]

The movie rating system is run by the film industry, and its done just fine for the last 37 years. Having the government step in would be bad for all involved. You think the video game industry has an agenda? Wait until some politicians start controlling the content of games.

The reason why the video game rating system kinda sucks, is because nobody knows what the ratings mean. This isn't easily solved, since the movie rating system is trademarked and can't be used. They do the rest right, the logo is big and obvious, and it says what it means right on there.

The reason why the system doesn't work, is because of parents. Parents aren't doing their job if they buy their 9 year old a copy of GTA. Before you start blaming stores for selling games, its usually the parent that buys the game for the kid, and if its not, then the parent gave the kid $50 and didn't bother to supervise him at all, or check to see what he bought.


People slip things past the ratings board for movies all the time, look at the South Park movie. Besides, GTA got an M for Mature anyway, it wasn't like it snuck in something that wasn't age appropriate, or that it was rated E.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

The only problem I HAVE seen in this ESRB system is that they are not supplied with final builds of games. They usually pre-screen clips from a final game, and are supplied with alpha builds for reviewing. As we all know, a LOT can change between alpha and Gold Master. Maybe they should be required to see the final build?

Movies aren't rated based on the final edit. How many times do you hear movies being re-submitted in order to hit a PG-13 rating as opposed to an R rating?

I have a problem with a few of the games I've seen rated in the last year. The two that come to mind are Halo 2 and Burnout 3. I fail to see how a smattering of red or purple blood is worthy of an M rating. Likewise I fail to see how a game that has a crash mode where you're intentionally causing as much monetary damage as possible in a car wreck simulator is an E rating.

[Gothic Walrus]

Did anyone actually read the article? He's not saying that the ESRB does a bad job of informing consumers of games' content. The article is related to another recently reported one that talks about hidden sex animations in GTA's game code and how it slipped past the ESRB, and the ESRB's reluctance to discuss their ongoing investigation of the matter. The writer insinuates the reason for the latter is because the ESRB is trying to protect the reputation of game companies.
The so-called "Hot Coffee" mod reveals erotic scenes which are not part of the unmodified game play experience.

Why crucify a game for something that's not accessible without modifying it?

[megashock5]

Did anyone actually read the article? He's not saying that the ESRB does a bad job of informing consumers of games' content. The article is related to another recently reported one that talks about hidden sex animations in GTA's game code and how it slipped past the ESRB, and the ESRB's reluctance to discuss their ongoing investigation of the matter. The writer insinuates the reason for the latter is because the ESRB is trying to protect the reputation of game companies.


To be clear, I don't think anyone is saying the ESRB is without flaw or doesn't need things about it to be fixed. The point a lot of us are trying to make is that it's still doing more than other branches of entertainment and yet seems to come under a lot more fire than the others.

[Indiana]

I guess I would see this as the Hot Coffee mod would be rated AO. Without the PC mod this content does not exist.

[megashock5]

I have a problem with a few of the games I've seen rated in the last year. The two that come to mind are Halo 2 and Burnout 3. I fail to see how a smattering of red or purple blood is worthy of an M rating. Likewise I fail to see how a game that has a crash mode where you're intentionally causing as much monetary damage as possible in a car wreck simulator is an E rating.


I would agree, but Burnout 3 is rated T

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I would agree, but Burnout 3 is rated T

Sorry, wrong Burnout.....
http://www.gamestop.com/common/images/lbox/950300b.jpg

[bmulligan]

a Dutch gamer explained how he unlocked hidden sex animations in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The secret animations are so graphic that they could have pushed GTA: San Andreas from an "M" (17 and older) rating to an "AO" (adults only).

I have to agree that these so-called graphic animations had to be 'unlocked' in order to be viewed, and were not part of the original, or common game play experienced by 99.9% of owners.

It's truly lazy journalism to call this a scandal or call for a complete re-vamping of the rating process. Implying that the public is somehow being duped is also hyperbole at best, irresponsible at worst. It does, however, point out a fundamental difference between the rating systems of movies and videogames.

When you watch a movie, you see it's entire content. A movie is the same whether it's watched 1 time or a hundred. There are no secret paths to choose, no backtracking, and no hidden items to find. There are also no "easter eggs" to be found as in a videogame. If a company fails to submit the entire content then perhaps some sort of legislation might be necessary for punitive situations, but that's a different argument than saying the ESRB is purposefully trying to decieve the public.

When a game is submitted to the ESRB for rating, a videotape of specific parts of the game including a segment of actual gameplay are viewed by a panel and rated accordingly. Panel members are ordinary, non-game playing, citizens who probably would not be able to complete an entire game much less a perfect game. So, reviews on games content are always based on incomplete content. But considering the panels that rate the games are random citizens, saying the ESRB is on the take from game companies and cannot be objective is an outright lie.

[Scrubking]

The so-called "Hot Coffee" mod reveals erotic scenes which are not part of the unmodified game play experience.

Why crucify a game for something that's not accessible without modifying it?

Not only is it ONLY available via mods on the PC version ITS NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL on the console versions.

So yes, they shouldn't rate something that isn't going to be in the game even though it was originally intended to be.

[CheapyD]

Not only is it ONLY available via mods on the PC version ITS NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL on the console versions.

So yes, they shouldn't rate something that isn't going to be in the game even though it was originally intended to be. I think the author's point was that the GTA sex games illustrate a kind of loophole. Apparently, the sex games aren't really a mod, they are already in the game and just need to be "turned on" (no pun intended) with a Hex editor.

I think the author is discussing if this could be used again by other studios to circumvent the ESRB and can we expect the ESRB to do something about it since they are paid by the game makers.

[Scrubking]

I think the author's point was that the GTA sex games illustrate a kind of loophole. Apparently, the sex games aren't really a mod, they are already in the game and just need to be "turned on" (no pun intended) with a Hex editor.

I think the author is discussing if this could be used again by other studios to circumvent the ESRB and can we expect the ESRB to do something about it since they are paid by the game makers.

I see what you mean, but what would a developer gain by sneaking mature content in a T or E rated game? Why would they go out of their way to sneak this by the esrb when they know that, when caught, they will catch a bunch of heat for it?

You'd have to be pretty malicious to make a rated E game and sneak some porn in there for the kiddies to see.

[dtcarson]

Nothing new. My company pays money to another organization, so that we can take its 'tests' and get its 'seal of approval.' Paying the fee doesn't guarantee you'll pass the tests, but you can't take the tests unless/until you pay the fee. And then once you pass the tests, the organization wants you to continue passing, because as long as you use their logo to say you passed their tests, they charge a license/royalty fee for the use of their logo. One hand scratches the other, as they say, and the 'seal of approval' is not meaningless, it's just not as meaningful as it could be.
Anyway, I have no problem with the ratings system, although I am surprised no mainstream US games have got the AO yet. The ratings system isn't perfect, it's a voluntary way that the industry can say "Hey, we're trying", while providing an at-a-glance indicator to aid those parents who care, and the parents who don't care, not having it wouldn't make a difference.
Is it perfect? Nothing is. But it's a good voluntary start, and as a parent, I'm glad its there.

[zionoverfire]

I think the rating system works just fine, so long as it is only used as a general guide and not a system to restrict game sales to minors.

[CheapyD]

Probably not going to happen for T/E rated games, but more likely for M rated games trying to avoid the AO kiss of death.

I think the author doesn't think they will catch heat at all since, according to him, ESRB is really only accountable to the game makers who pay them which is kind of pointlesss.

Lots of discussion going on:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/36258.html

[Scrubking]

I checked out the comments and the guy is getting raked over the coals.

Anyway, I saw a documentary, or something, once where the ESRB talked about how they rated games and they said that the developers submit the worst parts of their games and all ratings are based on those submissions. They admitted that they rate games based on what the devs hand them so there is no way that they can catch hidden anything since they don't see what the devs don't give them.

I still don't see this as a big issue. For me Mature means for adults so I see no difference between "adults only" and "mature" content. Was "mature" supposed to be some kind of subjective criteria where 15yolds could be deemed "mature"??

[ryanbph]

I checked out the comments and the guy is getting raked over the coals.

Anyway, I saw a documentary, or something, once where the ESRB talked about how they rated games and they said that the developers submit the worst parts of their games and all ratings are based on those submissions. They admitted that they rate games based on what the devs hand them so there is no way that they can catch hidden anything since they don't see what the devs don't give them.

I still don't see this as a big issue. For me Mature means for adults so I see no difference between "adults only" and "mature" content. Was "mature" supposed to be some kind of subjective criteria where 15yolds could be deemed "mature"??
I agree...

[wubb]

I still don't see this as a big issue. For me Mature means for adults so I see no difference between "adults only" and "mature" content. Was "mature" supposed to be some kind of subjective criteria where 15yolds could be deemed "mature"??

The difference is very few US retailers will stock an AO rated game. OTOH very few games are made that get the AO rating, so there really isn't anything in that category for them to carry. Maybe if a surefire hit came out as AO some would carry it, but I don't see that happening.

You can do pretty much anything you want on the violence side and get the M rating. Sex is what earns an AO. I've seen some butt cracks and boobies on mainstream TV shows - even fairly graphic rape scenes (The Shield for example) I wonder if that same content in a video game would get the AO rating?

[ArthurDigbySellers]

People have mentioned the MPAA's rating system of movies, yet they fail to realize that the MPAA is owned by the movie studios - specifically:

Paramount, Buena Vista (Disney), Warner Bros., MGM, Sony, Fox and Universal.

So the organization which rates movies is owned by the studios that create them. Sound familiar? Are we seeing a public outcry about the current movie ratings system?

The fact is that the MPAA is in bed with the major movie studios just like the ESRB is in bed with the major gaming companies.

The MPAA regularly abuses their power by raking independent movies over the coals on ratings while the studios which pay them have no problems getting the ratings they want. If the ESRB starts to do this to independent game companies, then I'll be pissed.

[TurkeyOnRye]

I don't see the difference in the GTA:SA sex game having to be unlocked with a hex editor and nude patching. Sure, it's included on the disk, but it has to be unlocked using other software. If anything, it easier to download a nude patch and run an .exe file to patch nudity into a game. Doesn't that mean every game on PC that has the potential to be nude patched should be scrutinized? If anything, give props to Rockstar for ultimately axing it.

[-Never4ever-]

My son isn't old enough to play when I'm not watching him, and when he is I'll keep any games that are inappropriate for him separate from the rest. And if he's caught playing them, he'll get punished. Heck, the kid's only four and he already knows that he isn't allowed to play anything that doesn't have an E on it. It's called parenting.
:applause: So there are still decent parents out there. . .

[howlinmad]

Fatally Flawed Parenting must change!

[-Never4ever-]

The only problem I HAVE seen in this ESRB system is that they are not supplied with final builds of games. They usually pre-screen clips from a final game, and are supplied with alpha builds for reviewing. As we all know, a LOT can change between alpha and Gold Master. Maybe they should be required to see the final build?

Doesn't seem to make a difference. WHat they need to do is for stores to effectively relay the ESRB info. WEhen I went with my cousin to pick up GTA:SA the day it was released there were a bunch of parents buying the game for their kids. Well the store clerks were making sure that the parent knew fully well what they were buying for their kids. You know what happened? At least half of them decided not to buy the game. Sure it would be nice to have more upstanding parents that actually parent their kids, but that's just not how it is and as effect if parents can't parent their kids, then the parents themselves need to be held acountable foer whatever GTA did to there little boy/girl. It's not about making stricter VG laws, we need stronger laws against bad parenting.

[BustaUppa]

I just have a problem with the "M" rating. It covers such a broad range of content that it has lost all meaning. Something isn't right when Halo and GTA get the same rating. Plus, a lot of parents seem to think that the content in an "M" game is equivalent to what you'd see/hear in an "R"-rated movie, and 90% of the time that just isn't the case.

[dtcarson]

"Heck, the kid's only four and he already knows that he isn't allowed to play anything that doesn't have an E on it."

So you *do* use the ratings, at least as a point of reference. Which is exactly as it should be, a tool to assist parents. THe parent can always say, Yes, this M rated game, I want my child to play, and buy it for him.

Equating an M game to an R movie isn't necessarily true, yes. But those are two different media, and as such, are 'apples and oranges'. I agree, they shouldnt be compared.
But the fact that you don't necessarily know what M stands for, or to what extent, is the same with movies and R. Death to Smoochy and Kill Bill were both rated R; so were the Friday the 13th movies, and possibly even the first Halloween movies. "Language" and "violence" are the reasons they were rated R, but the extent of which varies greatly.
The game rating system isn't 'fatally flawed'. There needs to be some retailer support of them [ie, "We wont' sell M games to <17 without a parents permission], and a more nongamer parent-friendly education system available, with screenshot examples.

[spydey]

I don't know, the ESRB rating is *far* easier to see than a movie rating on a DVD case. Plus they actually list what content is in the game to justify that rating. Movies don't do this, music doesn't do this, books don't do this.

I think the industry has done it's job, now maybe the media can educate people about this ratings system instead of trying to blame all games for violent behavior. Parents need to be a lot more active as well. Even if I weren't a gamer, I could still see some big letter on the cover of a game my child bought and check to see what it meant. And maybe they should actually check and see what their kids are playing.

When I was 14 my parents took away my Purple Rain record becuase of some of the lyrics they heard. What would you do if you found your kids watching a tv show that was meant for adults? The same thing applies here.

My son isn't old enough to play when I'm not watching him, and when he is I'll keep any games that are inappropriate for him separate from the rest. And if he's caught playing them, he'll get punished. Heck, the kid's only four and he already knows that he isn't allowed to play anything that doesn't have an E on it. It's called parenting.

I couldn't say it any better.:applause:

[False Hope]

Doesn't seem to make a difference. WHat they need to do is for stores to effectively relay the ESRB info. When I went with my cousin to pick up GTA:SA the day it was released there were a bunch of parents buying the game for their kids. Well the store clerks were making sure that the parent knew fully well what they were buying for their kids. You know what happened? At least half of them decided not to buy the game. Sure it would be nice to have more upstanding parents that actually parent their kids, but that's just not how it is and as effect if parents can't parent their kids, then the parents themselves need to be held acountable foer whatever GTA did to there little boy/girl. It's not about making stricter VG laws, we need stronger laws against bad parenting.

I agree, but this happens quite often. I remember a friend telling me he went to EB to get a new game, and he attempted to have his mom buy him the Playboy game. Believe it or not, his mother had obviously never heard of Playboy and so went to purchase it for him. Only after the cashier explained the content to her did his mother refuse to buy it. There're two things wrong with this. One: She hadn't bothered, like one should, to see why it was rated "Mature 17+", and Two: I find it hard to believe she hadn't heard of Playboy, so assuming she had, I find it most logical that she though "It's just a videogame. Surely the two can't be one and the same." This is one of the greatest flaws of ignorant parents. They don't realize how much games have grown up and thus assume these are the same games they played, only flashier. If this mindset would disappear, then people could stop pretending to be shocked about the content of a game, and could stop blaming game companies for their ignorance.