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View Full Version : Guess who is selling games again at IGN


FreakSkater212
04-29-2004, 01:11 AM
http://boards.ign.com/GameCube_Classifieds/b5325/57487262/?1

I guess he decided to try a new message board :roll:

CaseyRyback
04-29-2004, 01:13 AM
I really do not want to get in trouble over there, but my urge to describe how bad a trader he is, is going to probably make me

jeffreyjrose
04-29-2004, 01:14 AM
YES!!! Cloudspekk has been resurrected! Long live the infamous ripper-offer of all time!

Dane
04-29-2004, 01:14 AM
cloud ill give you 120 for it

FreakSkater212
04-29-2004, 01:16 AM
If that was an implication that I am him. I'm not, I only just registered a new name to post this thread in case he comes back here and threatens to sue people like he did last time for harrassment, I don't want to take any chances since I only made this name just to post this thread here

bignick
04-29-2004, 01:19 AM
I really do not want to get in trouble over there, but my urge to describe how bad a trader he is, is going to probably make me

I double dog dare you

evilmax17
04-29-2004, 01:22 AM
I really do not want to get in trouble over there, but my urge to describe how bad a trader he is, is going to probably make me

I double dog dare you

:lol:

italianstallion
04-29-2004, 01:24 AM
I took care of the sh*t sac.

FreakSkater212
04-29-2004, 01:25 AM
Nice! But how come you linked to this thread instead of that other 700+ reply one that has all the details?

bignick
04-29-2004, 01:26 AM
I took care of the sh*t sac.

sweeet

Mr. Anderson
04-29-2004, 01:26 AM
Aweomse italianstallion, awesome. I commend you.

CaseyRyback
04-29-2004, 01:27 AM
Payment must be recieved before I ship it out. I highly prefer a Money Order or PayPal if the buyer includes an extra 2$ to cover their annoying fees. If anyone is interested please send me a PM.
that shit right there is fuckin hilarious.

evilmax17
04-29-2004, 01:35 AM
It's really too bad, because he can just make a new SN and we wouldn't be the wiser...

LaraCroftsLeftBoob
04-29-2004, 01:35 AM
After reading most of the original topic on here i created an account on ign just to help warn people.
i told them to come here and ask people's opinion of him.
i really can't wait until he pisses off the wrong person and they go to his house and sodomize him with a baseball bat.

FreakSkater212
04-29-2004, 01:38 AM
I guess maybe I should have created a new name on IGN to do the same thing since I saw the post on IGN when I was browsing under my regular name but I have had my name on IGN for 2 years and have over 10,000 posts and didn't want to get into an argument under that name on IGN (and possibly get banned for flaming) but because of everything that happened last time with the other thread here, I thought people here might be interested to see the IGN thread.

Namelessloser
04-29-2004, 01:51 AM
lmao this guy is a total joke. He will never be able to trade again.

PapiChullo
04-29-2004, 01:58 AM
It's funny how there's always a different reason that he's "selling" things. First, it was to cover court fees for his "divorce", now he's buying a condo. Next, he'll be trying to put his kid through college.

bignick
04-29-2004, 02:55 AM
It's funny how there's always a different reason that he's "selling" things. First, it was to cover court fees for his "divorce", now he's buying a condo. Next, he'll be trying to put his kid through college.
divorce?? I though he was getting married! what a cock master

CaseyRyback
04-29-2004, 02:56 AM
It's funny how there's always a different reason that he's "selling" things. First, it was to cover court fees for his "divorce", now he's buying a condo. Next, he'll be trying to put his kid through college.
divorce?? I though he was getting married! what a shit faced cock master

made it sound better for ya :wink:

shit faced cock master >>>>>> cock master

ZForce915
04-29-2004, 10:55 AM
Payment must be recieved before I ship it out. I highly prefer a Money Order or PayPal if the buyer includes an extra 2$ to cover their annoying fees. If anyone is interested please send me a PM.
that shit right there is shaq-fu hilarious.

In addition to ripping people off, he is abusing Paypal. It's against their rules to charge to use paypal. Oh well, I suppose that is minor compared to the $180 he is about to steal from someone.

defender
04-29-2004, 02:25 PM
Is this guy like the #1 most wanted man online?

I wonder how long and how many people he has ripped off. Its obvious he is a criminal. Someone should contact the FBI.

Theenternal
04-29-2004, 02:34 PM
Did the charges get dropped against him? If they were, this is why they shouldnt have been dropped.

bignick
04-29-2004, 02:36 PM
I think they were. Even though bebop didnt get his money back. Thats still pending with paypal I think. Yeah, those charges should have never been dropped.

doraemonkerpal
04-29-2004, 02:48 PM
this guy is like the energizer bunny. he keeps going and going and going....

rywateska
04-29-2004, 03:03 PM
Can someone post the message up that everyone is talking about? I'd like a laugh, but for better or for worse, I was never around when this guy was, thanks.

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 03:03 PM
I all but left this message forum yet the little tykes still harass me.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14284

Mind locking this topic? It's on the trading forum and is surely off topic.

Well, he is right. It IS off topic in this forum. So, Ill move it to the off topic forum.

CaseyRyback
04-29-2004, 03:05 PM
is he suprised people are still "harassing" him

bignick
04-29-2004, 03:07 PM
I love how he deletes his original posts! New rule, if you see a post from cloudspekk, you must quote him so he cant change or delete it.

Gothic Walrus
04-29-2004, 03:12 PM
I all but left this message forum yet the little tykes still harass me.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14284

Mind locking this topic? It's on the trading forum and is surely off topic.

Well, he is right. It IS off topic in this forum. So, Ill move it to the off topic forum.

If only Banky were here...this is an occasion that calls for the ZING! cakes, and I just can't bring myself to post it for him... :D

If that was an implication that I am him. I'm not, I only just registered a new name to post this thread in case he comes back here and threatens to sue people like he did last time for harrassment, I don't want to take any chances since I only made this name just to post this thread here

As far as that goes...he doesn't have a case. Telling other people that he's a criminal is harassment? Not at all...if it were, those lists of registered sex offenders wouldn't exist. And the name calling? Big deal - people are referred to with every obscenity under the sun on the internet...and no one else sues.

If there is a Hell, I think Cloudspekk's going to it... :twisted:

b3b0p
04-29-2004, 03:52 PM
Apparently some of you never bothered to check, but after the original was closed it was kind of a given someone would start a new thread on this, no? (http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13598) I guess the title is a little deceiving, however.

As far as his harassment charges go, he has nothing. If he does file anything he will be the one getting in trouble, not someone else. Telling people this guy has ripped off 2+ people already is hardly harassment. In fact it was probably doing him a favor as to not get him in even more trouble.

And if we really want to talk about harassment I got a nice email from the perpetrator on Monday. I found kind of disturbing, but I could be reading in to it a little too much I guess. You be thd judge.


Are you ever going to visit my lovely state? Maybe with a family vacation?



Thanks,
Chris Kaukis

JackSuper
04-29-2004, 04:35 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

Here he has apparently bumped someone else's thread.. hm..

BigHow
04-29-2004, 04:49 PM
Trying to up his total number of posts, maybe? Trying to earn some more cred for when people think about trading with him. IIRC, one of the big clues (in retrosepct) was that his first post here was a trading post.

CloudSpekk
04-29-2004, 04:57 PM
You guys seriously need to drop it. Get over it, move on with it. At first it was funny, even some of the threads in here were semi amusing, but it's just getting old and boring.

I don't like this website, but how can I leave when you people keep bugging me?

Think about, it, how can you explain my eBay feedback if I'm some raging lunatic? Not 1 negative. I'm not even changing my screen name (which would have been the obvious choice). It's nice to know some of you have an active imagination but you need to draw the line somewhere.

And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

punqsux
04-29-2004, 04:59 PM
You guys seriously need to drop it. Get over it, move on with it. At first it was funny, even some of the threads in here were semi amusing, but it's just getting old and boring.

I don't like this website, but how can I leave when you people keep bugging me?

Think about, it, how can you explain my eBay feedback if I'm some raging lunatic? Not 1 negative. I'm not even changing my screen name (which would have been the obvious choice). It's nice to know some of you have an active imagination but you need to draw the line somewhere.

And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

haha beat it criminal!

SneakyPenguin
04-29-2004, 05:01 PM
its that return of the douce! and its more like a few thousand people, not 10. learn some math if you want to trade money.

bignick
04-29-2004, 05:10 PM
If this is just a 3rd rate site, why do you still come here? Now you haved moved on to ripping people off at IGN. What's next?

SneakyPenguin
04-29-2004, 05:12 PM
yesterday: CAG
today: IGN
tomorrow:...THE WORLD!

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 05:13 PM
And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

Oh, you mean your first posts on the trading board where you posted a ton of games in high demand, got offers from a ton of people, then backed out of all of the deals because people were "harassing" you too much by asking prices?

doraemonkerpal
04-29-2004, 05:14 PM
You guys seriously need to drop it. Get over it, move on with it. At first it was funny, even some of the threads in here were semi amusing, but it's just getting old and boring.

I don't like this website, but how can I leave when you people keep bugging me?

Think about, it, how can you explain my eBay feedback if I'm some raging lunatic? Not 1 negative. I'm not even changing my screen name (which would have been the obvious choice). It's nice to know some of you have an active imagination but you need to draw the line somewhere.

And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

haha beat it criminal!

LMAO!!!!!!:p

bignick
04-29-2004, 05:16 PM
And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

Oh, you mean your first posts on the trading board where you posted a ton of games in high demand, got offers from a ton of people, then backed out of all of the deals because people were "harassing" you too much by asking prices?


PWNED!!! Give it up cloudspekk, just give it up.

tyecko
04-29-2004, 05:20 PM
yeah.... ya $$$$$$.

CloudSpekk
04-29-2004, 05:46 PM
More like people like yourself making extreme low ball offers. Feel free to dig up my old thread. If I didn't take anyones offers because they were very very log. I had a few respectable bids, but for the most people people like yourself tried to take advantage of the allready low prices.

Add 1+1 before you make dumb comments.


And by the way, people are PM'ing me with legit offers evene on CAG where I didn't make one post for my gift card. This is clearly a case of the 10 biggest loud mouths having a pissing contest.

Oh, you mean your first posts on the trading board where you posted a ton of games in high demand, got offers from a ton of people, then backed out of all of the deals because people were "harassing" you too much by asking prices?

JSweeney
04-29-2004, 05:48 PM
Just because you don't think it's a fair price doesn't mean that that isn't what the true market value of the item is. Ebay prices are payed by suckers who belive that l@@K RARE!! actually means something.

batman2million
04-29-2004, 05:50 PM
man... it'll be soo funny seeing ur ass run from the feds...hahahha.

magilacudy
04-29-2004, 05:50 PM
Haha... I doubt anyone on this board in their right mind would take advantage of 'low' prices from you Spekky.

CloudSpekk
04-29-2004, 05:54 PM
Haha... I doubt anyone on this board in their right mind would take advantage of 'low' prices from you Spekky.


www.learn2read.com

Maybe you should comprehend the conversation before making assenine comments, no?

jmcc
04-29-2004, 06:00 PM
Haha... I doubt anyone on this board in their right mind would take advantage of 'low' prices from you Spekky.


www.learn2read.com

Maybe you should comprehend the conversation before making assenine comments, no?

I love when people complain about someone's post on a technical level only to make spelling and/or grammatical errors in their own post.

punqsux
04-29-2004, 06:01 PM
Haha... I doubt anyone on this board in their right mind would take advantage of 'low' prices from you Spekky.


www.learn2read.com

Maybe you should comprehend the conversation before making assenine comments, no?

I love when people complain about someone's post on a technical level only to make spelling and/or grammatical errors in their own post.

i love when cloudspekk makes any kind of post because he ALWAYS gets burned!

magilacudy
04-29-2004, 06:02 PM
www.learn2read.com

Maybe you should comprehend the conversation before making assenine comments, no?

Oh you mean the conversation about you being an ass, ripping people off and deserving to go to jail and/or hell? I'm sorry, I don't know how I managed to post something like that without knowing how to read.

Morpheus
04-29-2004, 07:34 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

Here he has apparently bumped someone else's thread.. hm..

JackSuper, I agree with you. That might actually be another one of his accounts. Might be another ripoff buddy of his too. Who knows? One thing is for sure, I will watch out for that account as well.

-Morpheus

There is also something else fishy, but I don't want to start pointing fingers just yet.

blackjaw
04-29-2004, 07:45 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

Here he has apparently bumped someone else's thread.. hm..

JackSuper, I agree with you. That might actually be another one of his accounts. Might be another ripoff buddy of his too. Who knows? One thing is for sure, I will watch out for that account as well.

-Morpheus

There is also something else fishy, but I don't want to start pointing fingers just yet.

yeah, buyer beware, he could be everywhere w/ different names

"the red scare starts over again!"

x0thedeadzone0x
04-29-2004, 07:47 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

Here he has apparently bumped someone else's thread.. hm..

JackSuper, I agree with you. That might actually be another one of his accounts. Might be another ripoff buddy of his too. Who knows? One thing is for sure, I will watch out for that account as well.

-Morpheus

There is also something else fishy, but I don't want to start pointing fingers just yet.

yeah, buyer beware, he could be everywhere w/ different names

"the red scare starts over again!"
That's why i don't buy from random people i don't know online unless an e-bay sort of trade is set up.

defender
04-29-2004, 07:53 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

yeah this is really looking bad...the last post there is from cloudspek asking someone if they mailed something out

he might be ripping people off under many names at many forums

the feds should be notified...honestly this guy appears to be creating some serious charges for himself

mail fraud can carry a heavy sentence

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 07:54 PM
More like people like yourself making extreme low ball offers. Feel free to dig up my old thread. If I didn't take anyones offers because they were very very log. I had a few respectable bids, but for the most people people like yourself tried to take advantage of the allready low prices.

People taking advantage of low prices? On this site? Never!

Normally, when people make a topic saying "Selling most of my video game stuff (or trade)", they usually are trying to get rid of it in a hurry.

Look at what you wrote:

I dont appreciate the total price coming to 100$(list price)+shipping, and you asking me to sell it for 80$ with free shipping, especially with the newer titles like F-Zero and Soul Calibur II.

Those titles were new, but saying that $40 for each was a bad deal for used games is crazy. You wont get that much anywhere else.

Scrubking put it best out of anyone: "Why is it such a hassle? Just ignore the offers you don't like. A few clicks to delete their offer and you're done. "

Instead of just insulting other people, why dont you answer the question I've asked atleast 4 or 5 times: Why hasnt b3b0p gotten ALL of his stuff back or all that he traded for? Ive never seen try to even defend yourself.

CloudSpekk
04-29-2004, 08:18 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

yeah this is really looking bad...the last post there is from cloudspek asking someone if they mailed something out

he might be ripping people off under many names at many forums

the feds should be notified...honestly this guy appears to be creating some serious charges for himself

mail fraud can carry a heavy sentence

Get over it. That isn't me. For one, look at his ICQ info. Secondly look at the dates in question. You tykes think of THE STUPIDEST things.

Oh no, but maybe I stole his ICQ # and his username! Seriously, get over it.

shadd01
04-29-2004, 08:32 PM
Hey cloudspekk, the jerk store called, there running out of you!!!
--Shadd

MorganWebbLover
04-29-2004, 09:04 PM
What a fucking scumbag you are CloudSpekk somebody should really take care of you . And when I say take care of you I mean in the Maifa Goodfellas sense .

evilmax17
04-29-2004, 09:05 PM
Hey cloudspekk, the jerk store called, there running out of you!!!
--Shadd

*Dies laughing*

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 09:13 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

yeah this is really looking bad...the last post there is from cloudspek asking someone if they mailed something out

he might be ripping people off under many names at many forums

the feds should be notified...honestly this guy appears to be creating some serious charges for himself

mail fraud can carry a heavy sentence

Get over it. That isn't me. For one, look at his ICQ info. Secondly look at the dates in question. You tykes think of THE STUPIDEST things.

Oh no, but maybe I stole his ICQ # and his username! Seriously, get over it.

That isnt you?

Bullshit.

That is you, and you know it. On your first post on these boards, you posted a link to THAT USERS collection and saying you were selling the stuff claiming it as yours. Dont believe me? Here's a screenshot because Im sure you'll edit it.

http://groups.msn.com/BrollisFightingDojo/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=166

Now if that wasnt you, why would you try to sell their games? Not unless you were lieing, but you're the honest victim here, right?

QED.

CloudSpekk
04-29-2004, 09:36 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

yeah this is really looking bad...the last post there is from cloudspek asking someone if they mailed something out

he might be ripping people off under many names at many forums

the feds should be notified...honestly this guy appears to be creating some serious charges for himself

mail fraud can carry a heavy sentence

Get over it. That isn't me. For one, look at his ICQ info. Secondly look at the dates in question. You tykes think of THE STUPIDEST things.

Oh no, but maybe I stole his ICQ # and his username! Seriously, get over it.

That isnt you?

Bullshit.

That is you, and you know it. On your first post on these boards, you posted a link to THAT USERS collection and saying you were selling the stuff claiming it as yours. Dont believe me? Here's a screenshot because Im sure you'll edit it.

http://groups.msn.com/BrollisFightingDojo/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=166

Now if that wasnt you, why would you try to sell their games? Not unless you were lieing, but you're the honest victim here, right?

QED.



Ok, I couldn't help but replying to that dumb post. I clearly see a link to MY COLLECTION, of which half the titles listed on this guy isn't even on. Dumb ass. I just clicked this guys link and he doesn't even have a collection list. Get a fucking clue.


From: Brolli (Original Message) Sent: 7/13/2002 9:48 AM
hey u members start role playing


Maybe you should continue being 17 and go back to your online DBZ dojo where you think you're popular.

Gothic Walrus
04-29-2004, 09:38 PM
http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56650606&start=57511923

yeah this is really looking bad...the last post there is from cloudspek asking someone if they mailed something out

he might be ripping people off under many names at many forums

the feds should be notified...honestly this guy appears to be creating some serious charges for himself

mail fraud can carry a heavy sentence

Get over it. That isn't me. For one, look at his ICQ info. Secondly look at the dates in question. You tykes think of THE STUPIDEST things.

Oh no, but maybe I stole his ICQ # and his username! Seriously, get over it.

That isnt you?

Bullshit.

That is you, and you know it. On your first post on these boards, you posted a link to THAT USERS collection and saying you were selling the stuff claiming it as yours. Dont believe me? Here's a screenshot because Im sure you'll edit it.

http://groups.msn.com/BrollisFightingDojo/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=166

Now if that wasnt you, why would you try to sell their games? Not unless you were lieing, but you're the honest victim here, right?

QED.



Ok, I couldn't help but replying to that dumb post. I clearly see a link to MY COLLECTION, of which half the titles listed on this guy isn't even on. Dumb ass.


From: Brolli (Original Message) Sent: 7/13/2002 9:48 AM
hey u members start role playing


Maybe you should continue being 17 and go back to your online DBZ dojo where you think you're popular.

Quoted for posterity. We won't let you get away with that deleting your messages crap again, Spekky. :twisted:

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 09:49 PM
Ok, I couldn't help but replying to that dumb post. I clearly see a link to MY COLLECTION, of which half the titles listed on this guy isn't even on. Dumb ass. I just clicked this guys link and he doesn't even have a collection list. Get a shaq-fuing clue.


From: Brolli (Original Message) Sent: 7/13/2002 9:48 AM
hey u members start role playing


Maybe you should continue being 17 and go back to your online DBZ dojo where you think you're popular.

You said it wasnt you. If you click on the words "Collection" RIGHT UNDERNEITH THE USERNAME, you go to a list. The SAME EXACT list/link you posted months ago, as shown in the screenshot claiming it was yours.

Second of all, thats not me that wrote that. Notice the "I" at the end instead of the "Y", and who posted that picture that I gave the link to. I use a 2 year old debunk site to host images on. Sue me.

magilacudy
04-29-2004, 09:57 PM
Hey Brolly, your avatar matches the tone of your post so much its kind of funny. :)

SS4Brolly
04-29-2004, 10:04 PM
Hey Brolly, your avatar matches the tone of your post so much its kind of funny. :)

Im just getting a little fed up of all his lies :headache:

blackjaw
04-29-2004, 10:07 PM
Hey Brolly, your avatar matches the tone of your post so much its kind of funny. :)

Im just getting a little fed up of all his lies :headache:

i think everyone is...

Gothic Walrus
04-29-2004, 10:18 PM
Hey Brolly, your avatar matches the tone of your post so much its kind of funny. :)

Im just getting a little fed up of all his lies :headache:

i think everyone is...

We're fed up because we got involved in a situation that never really involved us... :D

That said, Spekky deserves everything we can dish out for him. He's a ****ing crook, and he's not worthy of respect from anyone.

SneakyPenguin
04-29-2004, 10:21 PM
i really want to learn the three inch punch so if i ever met spekky, i would have the opportunity to put my fist through his head.

^^see this spekky? this isnt a threat. i worded it just right so you cant touch me.

LaraCroftsLeftBoob
04-30-2004, 06:09 PM
i love how he always call us "tykes."

Ya know junior, i was playing video games back before your daddy's rubber broke and you infected the world. and i know i'm not the only one. so get your little dickbeaters back on the keyboard and make another post so we can flame you some more.

bignick
04-30-2004, 06:43 PM
i love how he always call us "tykes."

Ya know junior, i was playing video games back before your daddy's rubber broke and you infected the world. and i know i'm not the only one. so get your little dickbeaters back on the keyboard and make another post so we can flame you some more.


LMFAO!!! That was great, when the rubber broke ha ha ha ha ha! Thats almost as good as ripping some one off for beanie babies! ha ha ha

CaptainObviousXl
04-30-2004, 06:53 PM
how stupid to use the same name

metroidkiller9
04-30-2004, 06:53 PM
i think we should all sign up dummy accounts on ign agree to trade with him, agree to send first and the send him garbage. some ideas: a broken stapler, a packet of oatmeal, used band aids, those brown paper tubes inside toilet paper, a naked picture of bignick, shaq-fu, a box of sand, photoshopped images of the picture mightslacker has perhaps depicting him in compromising pictures, a pair of pantyhose or a ronald regan mask incase he ever decides to upgrade.

Dead of Knight
04-30-2004, 08:35 PM
so get your little dickbeaters back on the keyboard and make another post so we can flame you some more.

This is comedy GOLD. :lol:

greendj27
04-30-2004, 09:32 PM
Has anyone else noticed that Spekky is trying to build up his post count on IGn.com now. Look at his most recent posts. For example, someone is trying to trade some games and he simply post "bump". The autohr says thanks, but why the bump? Ten bucks syas he wants a higher post count so other people will ship first to him.

EDIT: Ok, seriously. 75% of his posts are nothing more than the word "bump"

Mr. Anderson
04-30-2004, 09:46 PM
i love how he always call us "tykes."

Ya know junior, i was playing video games back before your daddy's rubber broke and you infected the world. and i know i'm not the only one. so get your little dickbeaters back on the keyboard and make another post so we can flame you some more.

One of the funniest things I've read in a long, long time. [-o<