how is selling used games legal?

[Mishimaryu]

they make 100% off our trade ins and sell them without book and all scratched up? anyone know what I'm saying?

[punqsux]

no

[karmapolice]

That would be another no

[BULL_Ship]

they make 100% off our trade ins and sell them without book and all scratched up? anyone know what I'm saying?

You don't like free trade? Leave the country.

[jmcc]

So...you're saying in Soviet Russia games trade YOU?

[punqsux]

YOU RED BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bob_the_goon]

It is illegal in Japan, and if the game companies had there way, it would be illegal here too.

[Forest Mercenary]

How isn't it legal? You didn't give even one remotely valid reason...

[Gothic Walrus]

they make 100% off our trade ins and sell them without book and all scratched up? anyone know what I'm saying?

It's legal because you agree to do it and accept payment for it. It's that simple.

[Storamin]

THEY'RE HURTING THE ECONOMY! Used games are not counted in the GDP! If you had bought a new game, the game would be counted in the GDP. However, I like to buy used games.

[bob_the_goon]

The original poster is making a complaint on the low quality of used merchandise at eb and game stop, I think. As far as legality, in most countries it's absolutely legal, in Japan, it's illegal on the basis that the game companies make no money off of used games. I'm not sure that you can even rent games in Japan.

[punqsux]

im pretty sure its legal in japan, ive never been but ive heard stories about people game shopping there mentioning used shops, could someone provide a link prooving its illegal?

[bignick]

interesting thread, pm me with how it turns out.

[BULL_Ship]

I remember reading somewhere that its bad to let a friend borrow a game in japan. Thats pretty messed up.

[bob_the_goon]

It may have changed. I admit that I'm rememberin an article I read quite a while ago about the cultural difference in the way things like games, toys, anime etc. are handled there. Part of it was about pricing difference (the average action figure comes out to the equivalent of $20 there) which Japanese collectors pay. The same article talked about used games and the fact that they couldn't sell them and that Sega was considering a program to start selling used games direct, which was a very big deal. If I can, I'll try to find the article, It seems like it might have been a ign "gaming life in Japan" type thing.

[YoshiFan1]

In Japan it used to be illegal to sell used games.

My Dance Dance Revolution 2 Gameboy Box actually has a No Resale sign on the bottom corner of the box.

However, in the news section of PSM last year, where they sometimes have a Japanese correspondent write a paragraph or two about what is going on in Japan, I remember him saying that after years of not being able to sell used games in Japan, stores are now allowed to sell used games.

[dcfox]

It is legal to sell used games in japan. Here is a link to part of an interview that mentions the impact of used games on the Japanese game market:
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/505/505895p2.html

[punqsux]

knew i was right =o)

[punqsux]

so anyways, since we cleared up the japan thing, could the origional poster please explain what the fuck you mean in your question?

[bob_the_goon]

Wow, my sense of time must be really warped. I would have sworn I read the article I was talking about in the last two years, but after checking out dcfox's link, I'm way off.

[rfoster9]

i think he was just saying how big of a rip off it is. you trade in a game for 15 bucks and they sell it used for 30 or more. it really bugs me about the instructions and case too cause you know that practically all games (cd era) are traded in with case and instructions and the people working there probably take them out for some personal collection or to give to friends, sell on ebay, etc.

[dcfox]

Maybe the issue is whether or not EB and Gamestop have the right to sell copyrighted material without any type of royalties to the copyright holder. The original owner has the right of first sale but does EB and Gamestop have the same rights?

[evilmax17]

Dude I totally see where the OP is coming from. Don't think of it as "illegal" so much as it is shady. Considder that me and my neighbor both order the same used game from Ebgames.com. We both pay the same $35 for the game, yet he receives a pristine pure complete game, and I all i receive is the disk (which in turn is very scratched up). Now I know they say (May or may not include box/instructions), so I know they have their bases covered. But come on, is it not one of the shadier things out there? And given that, how can something that seems so "Black market" be legal? I think that's where he's coming from...

[Steve Dave]

THEY'RE HURTING THE ECONOMY! Used games are not counted in the GDP! If you had bought a new game, the game would be counted in the GDP. However, I like to buy used games.

Why wouldn't they be counted in GDP? It is another sale for the store. Even those sold on ebay count towards the GDP because you are paying for a service that counts towards GDP.

[rfoster9]

Maybe the issue is whether or not EB and Gamestop have the right to sell copyrighted material without any type of royalties to the copyright holder. The original owner has the right of first sale but does EB and Gamestop have the same rights?

yeah, that could be what he means too. it seems strange that game companies dont get a piece of this when movie companies do with their product. though i dont know how much used games hurt the new game sales. most of the times a used newer game is only 5 bucks less than the new game. it almost makes the new game look like a deal.

[punqsux]

it seems strange that game companies dont get a piece of this when movie companies do with their product.

since when? you mean part of the sale of used dvds at blockbuster, eb, ect. go to movie companies?

[Steve Dave]

The game is your property to do what you want with it. Automakers don't get a cut if you sell your car and I don't have to give lazyboy a cut when I sold my old chair either. You bought the game and the game company gives up control of what you do with it when you make the purchase.

[Cmosfm]

they make 100% off our trade ins and sell them without book and all scratched up? anyone know what I'm saying?

You don't like free trade? Leave the country.

This sums it up pretty well I think.

Also, I'm pretty sure if the game doesn't work you can return it right? Get one that does does work, am I correct?

Also, I'm pretty sure that most people that play games, 9 out of 10 maybe, don't give a flying f**king rats ass if the game has a few scratches, with book or without, or even without a case...as long as it plays.

Same with used cars. Ever buy a used car that DIDN'T have a problem? That DIDN'T have scratched paint or needed a tune up or the oil changed or even something as small and trivial as a washing? But do people jump on message boards and bitch about that? probably. But it's not as rampant as "OMG my game from Gamestop had a SCRATCH!!!! It plays fine but I'm too lazy too return it so I'll just whine about it some"

It boils down to one thing, if you want it like new, BUY IT NEW and shut the hell up.

[punqsux]

Also, I'm pretty sure that most people that play games, 9 out of 10 maybe, don't give a flying f**king rats ass if the game has a few scratches, with book or without, or even without a case...as long as it plays.

count me as 1/10

games are games. not collector's peices (with certin exceptions)

while i always try to take the best care i can with my games, when i buy one used, the only thing i care about is if the disc works 100% flawlessly...which almost every single disc i ever had has done! the ones that didnt, i returned with no problems at all.

if you are a game collector and want everything pristine and complete, heres a thought, dont buy used games!! and if you must buy them used, make sure u can inspect the disc first, its kinda getting old hearing everyone whine about a scratch on a disc.

[eldad9]

THEY'RE HURTING THE ECONOMY! Used games are not counted in the GDP! If you had bought a new game, the game would be counted in the GDP.

And when you have sex for free, you're not paying a hooker.

Are you saying that should be illegal too?

[Mishimaryu]

Btw EB games and gamestop workers take the game home try it out then return it and shrink wrap and sell them as new. Now thats just dirty. Story of what I saw at gamestop:

GS employee: Hey can I help you?
GS employee but comes it as a customer: Hey I rented these games and was wondering if I can return them:
GS employee- We don't allow rentals here what are you talking about?
Same customer: Well you know what I mean.
GS employee- OK well no problem.

[punqsux]

Btw EB games and gamestop workers take the game home try it out then return it and shrink wrap and sell them as new. Now thats just dirty. Story of what I saw at gamestop:

GS employee: Hey can I help you?
GS employee but comes it as a customer: Hey I rented these games and was wondering if I can return them:
GS employee- We don't allow rentals here what are you talking about?
Same customer: Well you know what I mean.
GS employee- OK well no problem.

that has nothing to do with selling used games!

im almost positive selling opened games as new is illegal.

please explain how selling used games is illegal

[YoshiFan1]

Btw EB games and gamestop workers take the game home try it out then return it and shrink wrap and sell them as new.

I used to have a classmate who worked at EB and he did tell me that the employees are allowed to take home any display copy and play the game for a few days. Even if they don't re-shirnkwrap it, they are still selling a used game as new since the display copy is suppsed to be "new" but not sealed.

[punqsux]

Btw EB games and gamestop workers take the game home try it out then return it and shrink wrap and sell them as new.

I used to have a classmate who worked at EB and he did tell me that the employees are allowed to take home any display copy and play the game for a few days. Even if they don't re-shirnkwrap it, they are still selling a used game as new since the display copy is suppsed to be "new" but not sealed.

but this has nothing to do with the thread!

i want the topic creator to explain u it should be illegal to sell used games

[omicron]

How about used software? Using computer software only gives you the license to use it. You can't transfer the right.

[thatstoobad]

yeah, that could be what he means too. it seems strange that game companies dont get a piece of this when movie companies do with their product. though i dont know how much used games hurt the new game sales. most of the times a used newer game is only 5 bucks less than the new game. it almost makes the new game look like a deal.

why would they get a piece of the profit for an item that they already sold once?

How about used software? Using computer software only gives you the license to use it. You can't transfer the right.

and when you sell your used game you are selling that license to use it.

i have absolutely no idea what the original poster was thinking when he made this topic.

[loserboy]

In a strange way I think I understand what the original poster meant.

A sale for an item assumes that the seller and buyer agree on a fair exchange. The cost of the item is predetermined and should be a reflection of the item sold. And yet, as several previous posters have mentioned, there is little guarantee that you are getting what you paid for. I have discussed this sort of thing in a million different threads.

here's a scenario I've tossed about...I walk into a gamestop of eb and buy a used game, I am told there is no case and no instructions...I do not receive any discount off of the used game price...The case and instructions have NO VALUE as far as the sale is concerned.

Okay, the store sets up the rules...I return the next day and take seven ps2 cases and instructions for seven used games I happen to already own. Gameestop has established that these items are WORTHLESS. They do not charge you for them when you are buying a game...you are entitled only to the game....therefore these items are yours to take and do with what you wish.

If this is NOT the case, then we have a problem. If these items aren't free and do have some intrinsic value and worth and are therefore left out of a sale of a game, then all games without these items should be cheaper.

Otherwise take anything you want. They've set the rules.

What I find funny is that consumers get shaqfud so many times in so many ways, we don't even realize it. We accept the fact that we get screwed. Why? Why should million dollar corporations not be bound by the same decency we hold each other to?

[punqsux]

if you dont want it dont buy it, simple as that

[eldad9]

here's a scenario I've tossed about...I walk into a gamestop of eb and buy a used game, I am told there is no case and no instructions...I do not receive any discount off of the used game price...The case and instructions have NO VALUE as far as the sale is concerned.

Okay, the store sets up the rules...I return the next day and take seven ps2 cases and instructions for seven used games I happen to already own. Gamestop has established that these items are WORTHLESS. They do not charge you for them when you are buying a game...you are entitled only to the game....therefore these items are yours to take and do with what you wish.

That's like saying that if the get a promotional for people who buy a game, once they run out of that promotional item they should be forced to sell it at a lower price, otherwise you should be able to get the promotional item without buying the game.

That makes absolutely no sense. No law requires a company to do anything like that.

And since they charge the same for a scratched used game and a mint one, shouldn't you be able to scratch any any used game they have? How are they getting away with not letting you scratch games?

Please, let's make this stupid thread go away. The original poster didn't make any sense.

[Lord_Kefka]

As a Gamestop employee (who hates the corporate office) allow me to shed a little light into this shit-storm of accusations.

1. Yes, you used to be able to buy a new game and try it out for up to 7 days and return it if you didn't like it. It was a stupid policy, but it was available to ALL customers up until last August. Now, once a game is opened it is yours. Even for employees. Any employee doing otherwise is breaking the rules. This was incredibly fucking stupid because now we're split on assholes who think they should be able to return their new games and assholes who don't trust us that the games are "new new". Employees can rent games, but it should now be restriced to used titles. Because if we take it home and play it for 7 days, it's still used. If it works, it works.

2. That game is yours when you buy it. You can sell it, dump it in the garbage or play it forever. We do NOT hold a motherfucking gun to your head and say "trade in your games". This is America. Y'know why the games are marked up 100%? Because they have to make money! That's the way it works. They have to pay Employees, supplies, electrical, water & garbage bills. The have to give your cheap-ass money for your shitty games we already have 50 fucking copies of!!! Y'know why you only get a dollar for Madden 2003 for PS2? Because my one store has 100 fucking copies! We sell one of those every other week. If we traded a game for a game it'd be a nice idea, except how would they stay open? It's a business you retards!

3. These statements will vary by store, of course. The things I state are the way things should be run, the way we run them. So, if the store has a crooked or cheap manager he may break the rules. Report it, or go to another Gamestop. If I went to your McDonalds and was treated rudely, ooes that mean every McDonalds coast-to-coast is rubn by rude people?

4. There was a class-action lawsuit filed in California against Gamestop and E.B. due to selling "new" games that had been used at least once before. It was due to that dumb-ass policy of "try it and return it if you don't like it" on new games. That policy is still in effect on used games. If you buy and return it, it's still used. No change in status.

5. If we get in a game that doesn't look good, we send it off to the corporate warehouse to be fixed. We do NOT take the boxes and books to sell online. Once again, some bad apples do not ruin the batch. Our store takes pride in trying to get you the best-looking everything. If we don't have a box, it because we didn't get one traded in with it. I don't like it either, but some people don't keep the boxes and we cannot discriminate.

6. Ask to check the disc. Ny walking into the store you are in no way FORCED to take the game if you don't like the look of the disc. Or even trade in your games if you don't think the value is fair. Just say "no thanks".

7. For gods sake, grow the fuck up. it's a damn game, not the U.S. economy in a DVD keep-case.

Cheers.

[eldad9]

I don't like it either, but some people don't keep the boxes and we cannot discriminate.


Of course you can; you can pay less and charge less for games without instructions. Right now people have no motivation to take care of their games. But of course that's a business decision; any company is free to act as it wants to.

[loserboy]

I'd rather just take all of the free instructions and cases you offer. And they are free. You don't charge for them, you don't put a premium on them, they are not a required part of any used game sale.

I think I'll walk over to gamestop today and pocket that Suikoden box and instructions that have been sitting in the PS1 section for the last month.

It's free free free

[PsyClerk]

For the record, movie studios make zero dollars off the sale of used movies (VHS, DVD, beta, you name it).

'Used' items are what's called the secondary market. No industry has ever managed to have even the slightest impact on it's own secondary market. Nintendo has tried it. Anyone remember when they got on video stores for renting games? They eventually realized how stupid they were (and how futile the fight was) and offered rental support.

[Cmosfm]

As a Gamestop employee (who hates the corporate office) allow me to shed a little light into this shit-storm of accusations.

1. Yes, you used to be able to buy a new game and try it out for up to 7 days and return it if you didn't like it. It was a stupid policy, but it was available to ALL customers up until last August. Now, once a game is opened it is yours. Even for employees. Any employee doing otherwise is breaking the rules. This was incredibly shaq-fuing stupid because now we're split on assholes who think they should be able to return their new games and assholes who don't trust us that the games are "new new". Employees can rent games, but it should now be restriced to used titles. Because if we take it home and play it for 7 days, it's still used. If it works, it works.

2. That game is yours when you buy it. You can sell it, dump it in the garbage or play it forever. We do NOT hold a shaq-fu gun to your head and say "trade in your games". This is America. Y'know why the games are marked up 100%? Because they have to make money! That's the way it works. They have to pay Employees, supplies, electrical, water & garbage bills. The have to give your cheap-ass money for your shitty games we already have 50 shaq-fuing copies of!!! Y'know why you only get a dollar for Madden 2003 for PS2? Because my one store has 100 shaq-fuing copies! We sell one of those every other week. If we traded a game for a game it'd be a nice idea, except how would they stay open? It's a business you retards!

3. These statements will vary by store, of course. The things I state are the way things should be run, the way we run them. So, if the store has a crooked or cheap manager he may break the rules. Report it, or go to another Gamestop. If I went to your McDonalds and was treated rudely, ooes that mean every McDonalds coast-to-coast is rubn by rude people?

4. There was a class-action lawsuit filed in California against Gamestop and E.B. due to selling "new" games that had been used at least once before. It was due to that dumb-ass policy of "try it and return it if you don't like it" on new games. That policy is still in effect on used games. If you buy and return it, it's still used. No change in status.

5. If we get in a game that doesn't look good, we send it off to the corporate warehouse to be fixed. We do NOT take the boxes and books to sell online. Once again, some bad apples do not ruin the batch. Our store takes pride in trying to get you the best-looking everything. If we don't have a box, it because we didn't get one traded in with it. I don't like it either, but some people don't keep the boxes and we cannot discriminate.

6. Ask to check the disc. Ny walking into the store you are in no way FORCED to take the game if you don't like the look of the disc. Or even trade in your games if you don't think the value is fair. Just say "no thanks".

7. For gods sake, grow the shaq-fu up. it's a damn game, not the U.S. economy in a DVD keep-case.

Cheers.

Amen brother! I haven't heard it said so well. ever. As a small buisness owner I understand 110% where your coming from and I'm backing these statements.

[MrMaddness]

As a fellow Gamestop employee...thank you very Shaq-fu much.

[Lord_Kefka]

I'd rather just take all of the free instructions and cases you offer. And they are free. You don't charge for them, you don't put a premium on them, they are not a required part of any used game sale.

I think I'll walk over to gamestop today and pocket that Suikoden box and instructions that have been sitting in the PS1 section for the last month.

It's free free free

So how does this make YOU any better than the fu-ktards who bring in their rotten looking games without the cases? All this means is that you are a thief. While the box and book aren't REQUIRED, we'd like them to be. This is a business, and worse than that it's a PUBLICLY-OWNED company. What does this mean?

1. Corporate is always under pressure to make their bottom-line look good. Which includes always trying to get in more and more games every day. We're encouraged to suggest people to buy used games and take their games without the "extras". Believe me, they screw us employees more than you could believe. That's probably why you see so many shady employees doing returns against policy.

2. Buy into the company, please. If you're rich, buy alot. Get them to change this stupid ass policy. The official corporate line is "try not to be too picky", and "we should never turn away business". That's why our stores resemble pawn shops now. And we employees HATE IT.

So, how are you the better one by stealing?

[Cmosfm]

I'd rather just take all of the free instructions and cases you offer. And they are free. You don't charge for them, you don't put a premium on them, they are not a required part of any used game sale.

I think I'll walk over to gamestop today and pocket that Suikoden box and instructions that have been sitting in the PS1 section for the last month.

It's free free free

So how does this make YOU any better than the fu-ktards who bring in their rotten looking games without the cases? All this means is that you are a thief. While the box and book aren't REQUIRED, we'd like them to be. This is a business, and worse than that it's a PUBLICLY-OWNED company. What does this mean?

1. Corporate is always under pressure to make their bottom-line look good. Which includes always trying to get in more and more games every day. We're encouraged to suggest people to buy used games and take their games without the "extras". Believe me, they screw us employees more than you could believe. That's probably why you see so many shady employees doing returns against policy.

2. Buy into the company, please. If you're rich, buy alot. Get them to change this stupid ass policy. The official corporate line is "try not to be too picky", and "we should never turn away business". That's why our stores resemble pawn shops now. And we employees HATE IT.

So, how are you the better one by stealing?

I think he was just being a smart ass

[PsyClerk]

You know, you could tell a newbie without even looking at the post count there...

[loserboy]

Yes, I was being sarcastic. Though I do have a real problem with the way these stores handle used games as well as opened games they try and pawn off as new.

I don't have a major problem with someone who does take instructions out of these used copies as I have often bought used games home without checking (because I know all the employees at my local store) and found not only was there no instruction booklet in the case...there was no GAME in the case.

While it is a buyer's responsibility to handle these sort of things, a company needs to understand that it can't exploit its customers.

[edtinney]

It goes like this. I took my perfect copy of Medal of Honor Allied Assault Deluxe Edition into EB to trade it in. I asked how much I could get for it. The manager said $4. $4?! "You can kiss my ass," I said, as I left the store. I was pissed, but they have the right to conduct business any way they please. What can I say, I'm a Republican, I favor laissez-faire policy. Anyway, that's all it takes. If you don't like their business, don't give them any. I don't like it, so I'll keep my games, and they can suck a fat one.

[snotnose_colossal]

in japan is it illegal to buy used cars

[loserboy]

edtinney-
I understand that it is your right to not sell back your games, however as a consumer why must we be subjected to unfair business practices on the "buying" end of a deal.

If I choose to by Game A used from a store, and they are charging 10 bucks for it, then my ten dollar Game A had better be no different than another person's ten dollar Game A. This is where the problems arise. Some Game A's are in great shape, others are shite, still others don't have a case or instructions, yet they all have the same shaq-fuin retail price.

Even if I wanted to take the time to sort through the fifteen used copies of Unreal Tournament they have in their little drawer, it shouldn't be my responsibility. I am the one giving them the money.

When they will sell you a disc only copy of a game at the same exact price as a pristine copy of the same game, something is not right. The consumer is not getting a fair shake.

That's why I don't have a major problem with people who might swipe an instruction booklet or a case here or there. These people are simply following the precedent set by the store. When consumers feel they are being ripped off, often times they will take whatever digs they can toget back at those who are doing the ripping off...

[eldad9]

This is not the most stupid thing I've heard - but only because I'm online a lot.

Consider fruit.

You pay a certain price per pound. If you're lucky, the fruit in the store is perfectly ripe, and you can choose as much as you need. The next person may get fruit that's a little too ripe or not yet ripe enough, and pay the same price.

Each transaction is separate. The customer agrees to buy the selected merchandise at the chosen price. The fact that the quality may be different is irrelevant.

Same thing with a person buying something in a 2-for-1 sale, and another person buying the same thing a day later or at a non-participating location.

Or consider airplane tickets. Conventional wisdom says no two passengers on a flight pay the same airfare.

Capitalism does not require that transactions be perceived as fair by YOU, just that both sides agree to them.

[jerryenzyme]

I don't see why everyone is complaining about the games with no cases/instructions. We sell them for the same amount because we give the same amount regardless. EB (at least they used to) gives up to 70% less and sell it for the same price, Gamestop does not. It's not like we're hoarding cases and instructions, that's simply how we receive them. Just ASK whether or not it has instructions or a case, is it that hard?

This does not apply to Gamestop.com, however. Because it sucks.

[dracula]

Btw EB games and gamestop workers take the game home try it out then return it and shrink wrap and sell them as new. Now thats just dirty.


well, lets put it this way, both ebgames and gamestop have been sued in the past for selling used games as new. so thats that. If you want a new game, make sure it is factory sealed(or go to a store that ONLY sells new games and you are set.

[loserboy]

eldad 9-
Given your example...I cannot help but begin my response with the following.

Your comparison of fruit to videogames is like...well...comparing apples and oranges.

To skewer your argument as you attempted to do mine, the summation of your argument:

"Capitalism does not require that transactions be perceived as fair by YOU, just that both sides agree to them. "

So a fair transaction by your definition would take place when a man sells a senior citizen a new water heater for her home when she doesn't need one because she agrees to it. No ethics or morals involved? Or perhaps the cab driver who brings someone on a runaround tour of the city to rack up the fare...just because two people agree does not make a transaction fair...

As for the rest of your argument, apples and oranges and papaya and coconut are fruits and are grown by nature. There is an inherent risk when buying items that are grown. Manufactured items are not subject to these same rules. If I go to Old Navy to buy Brand A jeans in Chicago, these jeans had better be the same quality as the Brand A jeans someone buys in Tallahasee.

We are not talking about fruit, we are talking about items that are man made and subject to quality control.

And your argument about airline tickets makes no sense. I am not necessarily talking about price (though that may be a factor) but rather quality of item purchased. If someone buys a seat for $100.00 through priceline and someone else buys a seat through the airline for twice that, I expect both seats to be equal. They should both be treated equally. If either one had a spring sticking out of their seat and was denied meal service...well they should just sit there and take it? That seems to be what you're implying.

I'm a big fan of capitalism...but I am also a fan of fair business practices. Consumers are taken advantage of ALL the time. Why must we reveal personal information to save at the grocery stores with their membership cards? Why is it that companies focus on making profits for shareholders rather than reinvesting their money and making a cheaper, better product for the consumer. Money, money, money.

So by the same token if a consumer decides he's had enough and swipes a syphon filter instruction book...well what's good for the goose is good for the gander.