Update:Family of Highway Shooter Victim Blames Video Games of Wrongful Death [Mobile/Archive]

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thesilentshadow30

08-09-2005, 06:24 PM

"COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Admitted highway shooter Charles A. McCoy Jr. dropped an insanity defense and pleaded guilty to manslaughter and 10 other charges Tuesday in a series of shootings that took place in 2003 and 2004.

Judge Charles Schneider sentenced McCoy to 27 years in prison.

A tearful McCoy broke down while reading an apology to the families of Gail Knisley and Mary Cox. The two were riding in a car along Interstate 270 on Nov. 25, 2003, when Knisley, 62, was struck and killed by a bullet fired by McCoy."

After McCoy was sentenced the family of Gail Knisley announced that they planned to file a "wrongful Death" suit against the makers of Violent Video Games such as Dead to Rights, Max Payne & Grand Theft Auto, that McCoy was playing prior to the shootings.

Hello people... While it is sad that this MORON killed a woman, He did it !! Not a VIDEO GAME ! ! ! !

--UPDATE: I hadn't heard this mentioned originally but Jack Thompson was with the family when they made the anouncement of the wrongful death suit. Also as part of the plea deal that McCoy made he will cooperate with the FBI in making a profile of him and also in making a determination in whether the violent games that he played had a bearing on his actions.

THis is just getting to be to fucking much... People were killing each other back before there were games! People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If exposure to violence in entertainment is a cause to being violent (as the morons behind such lawsuits say) well then we can just get rid of games completely as I don't think there is a single game without some violence whether its realistic of cartoony. Oh and lets get rid of movies as well, can't forget the violence on TV... hell the news has to go as well... Come on stop trying to blame others for YOUR actions. Next we will hear about a lawsuit against louisville slugger because they made a bat that was used to beat someone with. People do STUPID things because they choose to not because something made them!!

Scorch

08-09-2005, 06:27 PM

This is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Ikohn4ever

08-09-2005, 06:31 PM

video games are in trouble

tgk2044

08-09-2005, 06:36 PM

This almost makes me sad to live in Ohio....

TheBlueWizard

08-09-2005, 06:37 PM

This is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous.

That's true, but with the right jury, video games are screwed. In a civil case, you really don't have the same burden of evidence in a criminal case, so just get some crying people on the stand and one person on the jury who dislikes video games and its all over.

Just think about it. OJ = not guilty in criminal court, but still was held responsible in civil court for the deaths of his ex and her friend. I don't care one way or the other if he did it, but under our system of justice, someone who is "innocent" in criminal court can easily get hosed in civil.

TBW

Oh yeah, I forgot...do you like your coffee hot at McDonald's? One lady didn't, spilled it on herself, sued them for making it to hot and won. Games are screwed.

Javery

08-09-2005, 06:40 PM

video games are in trouble

No they are not. It is unbelievably and insanely hard to prove that a third party is liable for someone's death - look how long it took for cigarette companies to kind of sort of be held responsible and there have been hundreds and thousands of irrefutable studies that cigarettes cause cancer and other health-related issues. I hardly think we will see the Surgeon General's Warning get slapped on the back of every video game any time soon. Besides, this is first amendment stuff - I mean Natural Born Killers wasn't responsible for killing anyone and neither are video games...

jaykrue

08-09-2005, 06:41 PM

That's true, but with the right jury, video games are screwed. In a civil case, you really don't have the same burden of evidence in a criminal case, so just get some crying people on the stand and one person on the jury who dislikes video games and its all over.

Just think about it. OJ = not guilty in criminal court, but still was held responsible in civil court for the deaths of his ex and her friend. I don't care one way or the other if he did it, but under our system of justice, someone who is "innocent" in criminal court can easily get hosed in civil.

TBW

Oh yeah, I forgot...do you like your coffee hot at McDonald's? One lady didn't, spilled it on herself, sued them for making it to hot and won. Games are screwed.

In the McDonald's case, she won but the multi-million dollar settlement was reduced... A LOT. The only real damage was the institution of cardboard holders to prevent spillage.

http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm

Ikohn4ever

08-09-2005, 06:55 PM

No they are not. It is unbelievably and insanely hard to prove that a third party is liable for someone's death - look how long it took for cigarette companies to kind of sort of be held responsible and there have been hundreds and thousands of irrefutable studies that cigarettes cause cancer and other health-related issues. I hardly think we will see the Surgeon General's Warning get slapped on the back of every video game any time soon. Besides, this is first amendment stuff - I mean Natural Born Killers wasn't responsible for killing anyone and neither are video games...

I'm not talking about the pure legal ramifcations I am talking about the increased scapegoating for any and all crimes committed. Just the heat these litigations produce will make some developers alter their product and that is what I mean by in trouble.

snotnose_colossal

08-09-2005, 06:56 PM

This isnt the first time this has happened. AFAIK nobody has ever won one of these lawsuits either.

Backlash

08-09-2005, 06:58 PM

Responsibility is SOOOO lame. Up with passing the buck!

Javery

08-09-2005, 07:01 PM

I'm not talking about the pure legal ramifcations I am talking about the increased scapegoating for any and all crimes committed. Just the heat these litigations produce will make some developers alter their product and that is what I mean by in trouble.

I agree with you - developers would be smart to be careful in the future as much as that pains me. Hopefully, the trend will be these cases getting thrown out as fast as they are filed to ease the developer's worry. Look at all the cases filed in the 80s against people like Ozzy blaming their kids' suicides on music and yet the boundaries keep getting pushed. I don't think Eminem or Marylin Manson thinks for a millisecond about getting sued when they record something. It's the same thing with video games - it will just take a little time. People are always afraid of what they don't understand.

GuilewasNK

08-09-2005, 07:55 PM

This is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Truer words have never been spoken. No one blames a movie like Scarface or Terminator, deer hunting, or skeet shooting but cartoony shit like GTA which involves no real life participants at all.

mtxbass1

08-09-2005, 08:00 PM

<-- waits on Jack Thompson to pick up on this and claim....oh wait.

2poor

08-09-2005, 08:04 PM

murders were going on way before GTA came out.
these stupid assholes think that this shit will fly?
think again.

shipwreck

08-09-2005, 08:37 PM

I traveled this guy's turf everyday during the shootings. If I would have gotten shot, I don't think the first thing I would have thought was, "Damn it dude, you play too many violent video games and that's your problem". My first thought probably would have been "YOU just shot me you crazy fucker".

I'm just wondering if they went through his entire stash of video games and weeded out the Mario's and Crash Bandicoot's before they decided which ones "caused" him to start randomly shooting at cars.

I honestly can't believe this guy dropped his insanity plea. I really do think this guy is insane.

This lawsuit probably won't go anywhere because it's so utterly ridiculous. They'd have to sue every influence in this guy's entire life.

2poor

08-09-2005, 08:42 PM

camoor

08-09-2005, 09:24 PM

I become more libertarian each and every day.

megashock5

08-10-2005, 10:25 AM

This almost makes me sad to live in Ohio....

You and me both, man.

A sane person doesn't kill someone because of a game, or a rock song, or a movie.

evilmax17

08-10-2005, 10:36 AM

My family members were murdered. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Time to cash in! :D :D :D

CheapyD

08-10-2005, 10:39 AM

Lawyers will always go after the deep pockets.
Most killers aren't exactly swimming in money.

I think its a pretty sad that people are trying to turn a family tragedy into a profitable experience.

psiufoxx2

08-10-2005, 10:40 AM

In the McDonald's case, she won but the multi-million dollar settlement was reduced... A LOT. The only real damage was the institution of cardboard holders to prevent spillage.

http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm

THE BELOW IS ABOUT THE MCDONALDS CASE, NOT THE SHOOTER -- JUST AN FYI:

I'm not sure how you consider the reduction of $200,000 to $160,000 to be a lot considering the following:

"The jury found that Ms. Liebeck suffered $200,000 in compensatory damages for her medical costs and disability. The award was reduced to $160,000 since the jury determined that 20 percent of the fault for the injury belonged with Ms. Liebeck for spilling the coffee.[12] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn12)

Based on its finding that McDonald’s had engaged in willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct, the jury then awarded $2.7 million in punitive damages; essential to the size of the award was the fact that at the time McDonald’s made $1.35 million in coffee sales daily.[13] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn13)"

Which means she still was awarded close to $3 million at the end of the day.

Funny thing is:

"Before a suit was ever filed, Liebeck informed McDonald’s about her injuries and asked for compensation for her medical bills, which totaled almost $11,000.[9] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn9)McDonald’s countered with a ludicrously low $800 offer.

McDonald’s had several other chances to settle the case before trial: At one point, Liebeck’s attorney offered to settle for $300,000.[10] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn10) In addition, days before the trial, the judge ordered both sides into a mediated settlement conference where the mediator, a retired judge, recommended that McDonald’s settle for $225,000.[11] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn11) McDonald’s refused all attempts to settle the case."

Stupid fat-food restaurants (<-- not a spelling mistake).

woobacca

08-10-2005, 10:56 AM

It just keeps getting worse. Another incident in Alabama:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050810/ap_on_re_us/video_game_killings

"FAYETTE, Ala. - A 20-year-old whose lawyers claimed the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' and childhood abuse caused him to kill three small-town police officers was convicted Tuesday of capital murder...

"Defense lawyers had partly blamed Moore's actions on the hours he spent playing video games from the 'Grand Theft Auto' series, in which players shoot police officers and steal cars...

"The victims' families have filed a civil suit against the video game manufacturer and two stores, claiming Moore killed the three after repeatedly playing 'Grand Theft Auto III' and 'Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.' No trial date has been set in the civil lawsuit."

jaykrue

08-10-2005, 11:04 AM

THE BELOW IS ABOUT THE MCDONALDS CASE, NOT THE SHOOTER -- JUST AN FYI:

I'm not sure how you consider the reduction of $200,000 to $160,000 to be a lot considering the following:

"The jury found that Ms. Liebeck suffered $200,000 in compensatory damages for her medical costs and disability. The award was reduced to $160,000 since the jury determined that 20 percent of the fault for the injury belonged with Ms. Liebeck for spilling the coffee.[12] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn12)

Based on its finding that McDonald’s had engaged in willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct, the jury then awarded $2.7 million in punitive damages; essential to the size of the award was the fact that at the time McDonald’s made $1.35 million in coffee sales daily.[13] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn13)"

Which means she still was awarded close to $3 million at the end of the day.

Funny thing is:

"Before a suit was ever filed, Liebeck informed McDonald’s about her injuries and asked for compensation for her medical bills, which totaled almost $11,000.[9] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn9)McDonald’s countered with a ludicrously low $800 offer.

McDonald’s had several other chances to settle the case before trial: At one point, Liebeck’s attorney offered to settle for $300,000.[10] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn10) In addition, days before the trial, the judge ordered both sides into a mediated settlement conference where the mediator, a retired judge, recommended that McDonald’s settle for $225,000.[11] (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785#_edn11) McDonald’s refused all attempts to settle the case."

Stupid fat-food restaurants (<-- not a spelling mistake).

Read my post again. I said, "the multi-million dollar settlement was reduced."

Then look at the bottom of the link I post, 3rd to the last paragraph:

POSTSCRIPT - Following the trial of Ms. Liebeck's case, the judge who presided over it reduced the punitive damages award to $480,000, even though the judge called McDonald's conduct reckless, callous and willful. This reduction is a corrective feature built into our legal system. Furthermore, after that, both parties agreed to a settlement of the claim for a sum reported to be much less than the judge's reduced award. Another corrective feature.

So, even though the jury awarded her 3 million the judge felt it was a bit much and reduced it. And as the 2nd half of the paragraph states, it was reduced even further.

psiufoxx2

08-10-2005, 11:06 AM

MORRISTOWN, NJ - Local authorities arrested Jim Fine, 22 yrs old, after he reportedly ran through a shopping mall stealing items at random from multiple shopping racks. The manner of his theft was most unusual as he rolled a large styrofoam ball covered in glue through clothing racks, sticking items to the ball as it grew in size.

Authorities say Fine had spent the previous 24 hours playing the videogame Katamari Damacy for the Playstation 2, and attributed his theft to this game. "It's an outrage," said local Sears manager Frank Bitton, "Videogames should be banned completely. Next we'll have kids driving go karts down crowded highways and throwing turtle shells at trucks."

Namco, publisher of the videogame Katamari Damacy, could not be reached for comment. But if they could, they would probably have said "You Americans are all fucking idiots."

MaxBiaggi2

08-10-2005, 11:11 AM

In the McDonald's case, she won but the multi-million dollar settlement was reduced... A LOT.

That dunce shouldn't have gotten anything. Coffee is supposed to be hot, and if you're ignorant enough to ride around in a car with a fresh cup of it between your legs, you really do deserve whatever happens to you. That woman didn't need compensation from McDonalds; she needed a slap across to the face to wake her from her ignorant behavior.

MaxBiaggi2

08-10-2005, 11:17 AM

Man, what's up with the slowdown that's going on here?! :cry:

camoor

08-10-2005, 11:37 AM

Funny thing is, the only video game makers who actually want to change gamers into real live killing machines are the sponsors of the America's Army game - and they're avoiding all these lawsuits! Don't use the Hot Coffee mod on AA - it's only a tasteless Abu Ghraib minigame.

jaykrue

08-10-2005, 11:39 AM

That dunce shouldn't have gotten anything. Coffee is supposed to be hot, and if you're ignorant enough to ride around in a car with a fresh cup of it between your legs, you really do deserve whatever happens to you. That woman didn't need compensation from McDonalds; she needed a slap across to the face to wake her from her ignorant behavior.

Actually, both parties are teh stupid. The woman initially wanted only compensation of $800 to pay for medical expenses that were incurred as a result of the spill. But McDonalds refused to settle at that point and proceeded to the trial. As a result, lost out to a jury awarding her $3 million (which was reduced a lot but still...). So the woman is stupid for not carefully handling coffee as it is naturally perceived to be hot and McDonalds doesn't served iced coffee (at least as far as I know of at the time) so there no way for her to mistake it as such. And McDonalds was stupid for not settling out of court for a minimal fine of $800 vs. a punitive $3 million punishment (not including lawyers'/court fees).

Negative

08-10-2005, 11:43 AM

Man, why didn't he wait till that 50 Cent game came out, then he could have blamed that game, being that I don't care if it gets taken off the market :)

Reality's Fringe

08-10-2005, 11:47 AM

I knew this was coming once they aired an interview in which the guy said something to the effect of "They weren't like real people, they were like a backdrop, like it wasn't real!"

Hex

08-10-2005, 11:55 AM

This is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous.

And this comes as a suprise to any of you? In a day where an idiot like Jack Thompson exists, cases like this are going to snowball into one big anti-video game situation.

The Island lied to me. At this rate, I won't be able to play holographic DOA. :cry:

The Successful Dropout

08-10-2005, 12:02 PM

Could this have something to do with it? (http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/index.php?act=Arcade&do=play&gameid=34)

evilmax17

08-10-2005, 01:24 PM

Unrelated case, but there may not be anything to worry about (http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000180053911/).

Vinny

08-10-2005, 01:29 PM

This is ridicilous! How much longer before some people actually prove that videogames don't make you do anything.

If you can't tell the difference between a videogame and real life, then you deserve to be in prison.

Roufuss

08-10-2005, 01:51 PM

Dead to Rights and Max Payne had car shooting sequences?

Must have missed that part... or maybe I needed a secret hot coffee code?

guardian_owl

08-10-2005, 01:52 PM

daschrier

08-10-2005, 02:00 PM

gamereviewgod

08-10-2005, 02:58 PM

Great article from the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4246109

Select quotes:

“It's just a generational divide,” says Gerhard Florin, the European boss of Electronic Arts, the world's biggest games publisher. “It's people not knowing what they are talking about, because they have never played a game, accusing millions of gamers of being zombies or violent.”

"Two groups of subjects were recruited, none of whom had played MMORPGs before and many of whom had never played video games at all. One group then played the game for a month, for an average of nearly two hours per day. The other group acted as a control. All participants were asked questions about the frequency of aggressive social interactions (such as arguments with their spouses) during the course of the month to test the idea that gaming makes people more aggressive.

Game players, it turned out, were no more aggressive than the control group. Whether the participants had played games before, the number of hours spent gaming, and whether they liked violent movies or not, made no difference. The researchers noted, however, that more research is still needed to assess the impact of other genres, such as shoot-'em-ups or the urban violence of “Grand Theft Auto”. All games are different, and only when more detailed studies have been carried out will it be possible to generalise about the impact of gaming."

thesilentshadow30

08-10-2005, 08:15 PM

updated original post

62t

08-10-2005, 10:25 PM

Just one note on the McD coffee case, the women suffered 3rd degree burns, and McD knewn that the coffee were too hot. The women placed the coffee on her lab without moving and the coffee spilled itself. The judge ruled that most of the repsonibility belongs to the women but McD should never set their coffee that hot.