Is the Revolution's lack of hi-def really that big of deal?

[coolz481]

The reason I ask is that my family just got a Samsung 42" LCD television yesterday; we hooked up the Gamecube with standard a/v cables last night and played some Wave Race, Metroid Prime 2 and Resident Evil 4. They all looked absolutely beautiful up there on the screen.

My understanding is that Revolution's 480p would look sharper than the set-up I just described. For those who have seen it in action, how much better would a 720p screenshot look? I'm not arguing that Nintendo was right not to include high def support, but will Xbox360 and PS3 games really look that much better from a sharpness standpoint?

[drumbandit]

I've read that the jump from 480i to 480p is the most dramatic change in picture quality. 720p and 1080i are, of course, better but the improvment isn't as dramatic.

I suspect it really depends on how big of a videophile you are. Some people drool over the difference even an S-video cable can make, but I just don't see it myself. Hell, I know a guy that's absolutely obsessed with the picture quality on his HDTV. He bought special equipment to help him calibrate the screen. Even going as far as hiring a technication for several hours to fine tune the color values more accurately than the TV menus allow. The result of his hard work? He's never happy with his picture quality. It always needs more fine-tuning depending on what he's watching/playing at the moment. He ruined the experience for himself.

In the end, the difference you see depends on the quality of the TV you're using and your own experience. Just hook things up the best your setup/consoles will allow and be happy with it. You'll have more fun that way.

[Matarick]

If you see The Revolution in high def expect to see Bobby Z. make up really cake in performance.

[smalien1]

I'll be pissed if I have to pay extra for that stupid shit.

[jam3582]

The reason I ask is that my family just got a Samsung 42" LCD television yesterday; we hooked up the Gamecube with standard a/v cables last night and played some Wave Race, Metroid Prime 2 and Resident Evil 4. They all looked absolutely beautiful up there on the screen.

My understanding is that Revolution's 480p would look sharper than the set-up I just described. For those who have seen it in action, how much better would a 720p screenshot look? I'm not arguing that Nintendo was right not to include high def support, but will Xbox360 and PS3 games really look that much better from a sharpness standpoint?

I have an HD set and I have the component cables for the GC . First off 480p looks much better than 480i . You get a clearer picture and sharper image. An example I have seen would be windwaker . At first I didnt notice the difference until I restarted the game sans progressive scan.

Then I notice how blurry text was and how much duller the game looked I thought it was just my eyes but it wasnt . 720p is better than 480 . why because its a higher resolution and you can see more. Take the pc for example, games with lower resolution tend to look duller textures not as rich as you would think. but once you start bumping up the resolution you will start seeing more and more of the screen and sharper textures clearer image.

[Rocko]

I don't want to pay more money for support of something I don't utilize. If you really want HD, give them some kind of add-on. But I don't see who needs HDTV anyway.

[daschrier]

I've read that the jump from 480i to 480p is the most dramatic change in picture quality. 720p and 1080i are, of course, better but the improvment isn't as dramatic.

I suspect it really depends on how big of a videophile you are. Some people drool over the difference even an S-video cable can make, but I just don't see it myself. Hell, I know a guy that's absolutely obsessed with the picture quality on his HDTV. He bought special equipment to help him calibrate the screen. Even going as far as hiring a technication for several hours to fine tune the color values more accurately than the TV menus allow. The result of his hard work? He's never happy with his picture quality. It always needs more fine-tuning depending on what he's watching/playing at the moment. He ruined the experience for himself.

In the end, the difference you see depends on the quality of the TV you're using and your own experience. Just hook things up the best your setup/consoles will allow and be happy with it. You'll have more fun that way.


Well to be fair to your friend, many higher end sets these days need to be calibrated properly, and regularly...sort of like in the golden age of TV's. As long as they meet a certain tolerance at the factory they're sent out, but doesn't mean it's completely optimized. Most people won't care, but some can tell the difference.

[opportunity777]

Well to be fair to your friend, many higher end sets these days need to be calibrated properly, and regularly...sort of like in the golden age of TV's. As long as they meet a certain tolerance at the factory they're sent out, but doesn't mean it's completely optimized. Most people won't care, but some can tell the difference.

I just need a female technician to jungle my junk ... on a more serious note to me it's just a TV. I used to play on some pretty crappy TV's back in the day. I just want the Revolution games to be good and look decent then I will be happy regardless if it is HD or not.

From a marketing standpoint though it's just another thing that PS3 and XBOX360 will try to exploit.

[Nirvanaguy777]

I dont have an HDTV so honestly its not an issue for me, it is a next gen system and will look stunning and just about any tv thats readily available.

[opportunity777]

I dont have an HDTV so honestly its not an issue for me, it is a next gen system and will look stunning and just about any tv thats readily available.

Pretty much.

[sheek]

This gen of consoles is supposed to last 5 years. Anyone who buys a TV in that time will most likely get a HD TV.. If you don't buy a TV in the next 5 years then maybe this won't affect you, but I'd think most people probobly would. My reasons for speculating this are simple: 1) The proliferation of HD content on TV. In 5 years everything on TV will be HD. 2) Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. 3) Many exisiting DVDs are 480p, so people will see a doubling of quality even with older material.

480p is DOUBLE the resolution of 480i, which is essentially 640x240. That's also about half of what computer users were seeing nearly 20 years ago (VGA graphics). 720p is SIX TIMES the resolution of 480i and THREE TIMES the resolution of 480p.

To add 720p to the Revolution would probobly cost Nintendo about 20 cents.
My guess is Nintendo will release the Revolution, then a year later release the Revolution SP or something with HD and make everyone buy it again. This is standard Nintendo strategy.

[b0bx13]

My guess is Nintendo will release the Revolution, then a year later release the Revolution SP or something with HD and make everyone buy it again. This is standard Nintendo strategy.
Since when? I don't seem to recall any different/upgraded versions of home consoles, aside from offering new colors.

[Chris in Cali]

I don't have an HD T.V., but I plan on buying one very soon when all the November sales hit. Honestly though, I don't really care if the Revolution won't support HD if it keeps the cost of hardware and software down.

[basketkase543]

I have a regular 13 year old tv and man I can still notice a huge leap in visual quality when going from an a/v cable to an s-video cable for all of my systems. I can't even imagine going from s-video to 480p to *gasp* 720p. I would notice definately notice it if I had a high def tv.

[Chris in Cali]

The Gamecube's graphics already look amazing, and they're not in HD. We already know the Revolution's graphics are going to be even better than the Gamecube's, probably by far, and that's good enough for me.

[jkam]

I know it matters to a lot of people but for me it really doesn't. Heck I don't even have that need the biggest TV I can find gene. I certainly can appreciate a sweet setup but it just isn't a high priority for me. I used to play the atari 2600 when I was young so that could be the reason too.

I'm sometimes quite suprised by games when I play them now. Everyone complained about Wind Waker but I just kept thinking WOW I'm playing a cartoon! That was only a dream when Dragon's Lair came out with its move in 4 directions or use your sword with pre-determined outcomes. So I thought it was pretty awesome from a graphical standpoint.

I do like to see what is capable with an HDTV and some high resolution but I would rather the game itself immerse me rather than the sharp picture.

[Blind the Thief]

HD isn't a big deal for me. My TV is just fine now, and with 2 more years of college (and possibly grad school after that) I'll be poor enough as it is without making the switch. When it comes down to it, the games are most important to me...but to the average consumer, I'm sure graphics are most important. The average consumer might not *really* care about HD standards and whatnot, but if you just market it as "The 360 and PS3 have better graphics" I'm sure people will care about it then.

[Sleepkyng]

my TV is so ghetto ass that I'm cool without HDTV.

In all honesty, I really do notice the difference on different screens. I think my eyes are really good at picking up on those things.

But will it justify the cost? I payed nothing for my 20 inch behemoth tv that weighs and arm and a leg and I'll be damned if the next tv I own costs more than $100.

Basically I won't see an HDTV in my house/apartment for 10 years

[rohlfinator]

720p is SIX TIMES the resolution of 480i and THREE TIMES the resolution of 480p.

To add 720p to the Revolution would probobly cost Nintendo about 20 cents.
Um... no. If 720p is six times the resolution, the Revolution would require six times the fillrate to churn out those graphics. Not to mention the increased RAM needed to support the larger textures and character models you'd need to make the game look good in HD.

If you're only considering the cost of the component output, then 20 cents might be reasonable. But if you want your games to run at more than 10 fps and have decent textures, it would need a lot more hardware, which would cost well over 20 cents.

[GreenMonkey]

Not really a big deal. I was angry at first because I thought we would get the same thing as the gamecube, no digital port, and end up with 480i s-video only.

I'm happy at 480p. My DLP projector is a 4:3 800x600 model anyway (basically 480p in widescreen mode) and thus not HD, so although the extra would help (better to downscale a bit than upscale), I'm happy as long as it is progressive.

Honestly, though, 720p shouldn't take that much more video card power. I mean, modern video cards on PCs are basically built with 1024x768 as a minimum spec.

For those of you with small screens, maybe you can't tell. But even on my old 27" TV s-video looked a lot better than standard composite cables. On a big screen (about 90" 4:3 for me) 480p is much better than 480i.

[Moxio]

Not a big deal at all for me, especially considering I'm not really feeling I want to spend a lot of money for a decent HDTV. Nintendo still has my vote for awesomest next-gen.

[Frogger]

Not really a big deal. I was angry at first because I thought we would get the same thing as the gamecube, no digital port, and end up with 480i s-video only.

You must have gotten your gamecube a few years after launch. the GC, initially, had a digital component video output. Then they discontinued it because less than 1% of the customer based actually used it. I use it - and it rocks.

The Rev's lack of high def support means that 3rd party games will not be an option for Revolution owners with HDTV's. Why would I buy game X for the Rev if it's available for the other systems in high def? I suppose this won't have much of an impact on Nintendo if so few of thier users have a HDTV...but in a few years, I think that will change.

[GreenMonkey]

You must have gotten your gamecube a few years after launch. the GC, initially, had a digital component video output. Then they discontinued it because less than 1% of the customer based actually used it. I use it - and it rocks.

The Rev's lack of high def support means that 3rd party games will not be an option for Revolution owners with HDTV's. Why would I buy game X for the Rev if it's available for the other systems in high def? I suppose this won't have much of an impact on Nintendo if so few of thier users have a HDTV...but in a few years, I think that will change.

We actually do have one with it now, and I use it.

I was just saying, if Nintendo thought less than 1% of people was using it, and that they would just pull it then...why put it in the new console? Why put it in, take it out, and put it back in? I was afraid they would go 480i completely after pulling it from the GC.

I'm actually picking up a replacement refurbed GC at EBgames, 'cause our old one is basically dead. :(

[RandomNPC]

I dont have HD tv so Im glad the Rev wont support it. Itll keep prices down and the "revolutionary" aspect of it will probably make up for that.

[Ecofreak]

For me, it's the gameplay and story that stay w/ me after I have finished the game and put it on my shelf. Not the graphics - they're eye candy to help facilitate the story telling. I, for one, don't get emotionally attached to the way a game looks.

If games start becoming better looking while at the same time becoming more episodic (shorter and more frequent iterations) due to increased production costs of utilizing all the graphics tools, then I'd stick with lower graphics and longer gameplay.

Seriously.

[mmercer13]

Big mistake on Nintendo's part. HD looks AMAZING!

[Megalith]

Yes, it's a huge deal, especially when the display is an LCD.

[Slade555]

You would be amazed at the difference between 480i and 480p, let alone 480i and either 720p or 1080i. I believe that getting a HDTV is a requirement of stepping up to the next-gen (which I exclude Revolution from without true HD support, no offense). HD is a massive part of the next-gen experience, its just as important as the leap in video cards, other system components, etc. Without a HDTV you are missing out on so much of the experience its not even funny.

I'm not some rich eliteist either. Right now I have no HDTV in my room (nor do I play in the main one) so I'm stuck with ugly 480i s-video (trust me, its ugly). Nor do I feel the need to spend $600ish for a cheapish HDTV right now. So what am I going to do? Wait. Buy up all these good cheap xbox games I've never played. And when Xbox360 (or PS3 for those so inclined) maybe gets a little cheaper or the games get cheaper or whenever I make the plunge, I'll get the cheap (yet still solid) widescreen HDTV to go along with it, because thats what the next-gen is all about. If you aren't prepared, buy cheap games now, get a Revolution if you want, but if you ever go for an Xbox360 or PS3 and you don't get an HDTV, you are missing out. Its like buying a $3000 TV and using the TV speakers. If you buy a $2600 TV and $400 speakers, your overall experience is going to be way higher. Getting a cheap HDTV compared to the Xbox360/PS3 not as crazy price makes this not the best comparison, but the thought is the same. Go HDTV or go home.

[Scobie]

Has the FCC and the industry (to include set manufacturers and cable co's) even completely made up their mind on HDTV or DTV standards yet?

Given the current mix of finite cable bandwidth, basic consumer satisfaction with NTSC quality pictures, and the current high price of HDTVs (not to mention the rise in cost of all other consumer goods while wages remain stagnant), this is not going to be a make-or-break issue for Nintendo in the next gen. I don't expect a decent HDTV penetration rate till the next gen of gaming... I bet a lot of people will be satisfied with analog-digital converters for their current TVs, if given the option.

Anyway, Sony's lost touch with reality and MS isn't exactly all that impressive either. The path they're heading down isn't going to make me a happier gamer.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaying continually more realistic trolls and orcs. I want new ways to play and have fun with games. If Nintendo keeps on doing what they're doing (making games fun!) then I'll keep marching along with them.

[stocker08]

Yeah, i also am laking HD, so this will help keep the price down on the system. So, for me it is a good thing :-)

i cant even tell the difference between HD and Regular..........well it looks a little clearer but nothing that is too important, especially since you can only tell by looking very closely........

[MarkMark]

ive played resident evil 4 and smash bros on regular tv mostly but sometimes on my friends hd tv....there is no big difference get over it graphics fiends squeezing out an extra clear pixel or 2 will not make the game look much better. it either looks like crap or it doesnt

[mietha]

No, becuase you don't need Hi-Def to play Super Mario World, and that's all anyone will be playing on it anyway. It is a vastly inferior system to the other 2, so only first party games will be played on it. They don't support Hi-Def because they don't want to have to spend money to make a system that runs it. They are going to try to make a cheap system (I'm guessing 200/250 ish, maybe even 150) and carve out a niche, and they should succeed at that. They learned from the joke that is the Gamecube and are not even going to try to compete in the next gen. They are just going to try to draw their own crowd.

[Staind204]

I think it is a huge deal to not support HD. There are some Xbox games THIS gen that support 720P and 1080I. Nintendo is just taking a huge step back. For the people like me who have a HDTV we are going to want to take full advantage of it. By not offering HD , Nintendo is loosing out on a lot of customers. You could argue if the games are fun then who cares. I would agree but if it's anything like the GC I'd pass. I had a GC and sold it because of the lack of games.

[Quackzilla]

I got a GC because I thought there would be a ton of great first party games like Mario and Zelda, but I got a massive dissapointment because they just crapped out a few half-assed titles. I missed out on a ton of great PS2 games, and now that I am in college I hardly have time to play PS2. I think I will wait a long time to get a next gen console because I have so many good games to play that I missed.

I will probably never buy a Nintendo home console again.

[SpottedNigel]

I got a GC because I thought there would be a ton of great first party games like Mario and Zelda, but I got a massive dissapointment because they just crapped out a few half-assed titles. I missed out on a ton of great PS2 games, and now that I am in college I hardly have time to play PS2. I think I will wait a long time to get a next gen console because I have so many good games to play that I missed.

I will probably never buy a Nintendo home console again.

Yeah, now you've got plenty of time to play your wonderful PSP...you own a psp and talk of the Cube as a disapointment? wow...

[s3v3n777]

I missed out on a ton of great PS2 games, and now that I am in college I hardly have time to play PS2. I think I will wait a long time to get a next gen console because I have so many good games to play that I missed.

I will probably never buy a Nintendo home console again.

I'm in my last year of college and all throughout my college years I owned and bought new sytems. I can tell you as long as you can balance your time well, you should be fine. I have good grades and a whole crapload of games, of which I've beat almost all of them. Also, Nintendo made a pretty good system with the GC. I just don't agree with them pricing their games so high for so long. Heck, the players choice games took forever to get there...and preowned is almost like buying new.

And lack of hi-def isn't a huge deal but I don' see why they couldn't / wouldn't put it in there. It's not that expensive to get higher resolutions, Nintendo shouldn't cut corners like that.

[SpottedNigel]

It's not that expensive to get higher resolutions, Nintendo shouldn't cut corners like that.

It's a cheap part, but its not cheap to make games that use it

[s3v3n777]

It's a cheap part, but its not cheap to make games that use it

Now that may be true. I hadn't thought of that.

[rohlfinator]

And lack of hi-def isn't a huge deal but I don' see why they couldn't / wouldn't put it in there. It's not that expensive to get higher resolutions, Nintendo shouldn't cut corners like that.
The cost of the output port is trivial. If that's all that mattered, Nintendo would have supported it without a thought.

But since you need a better graphics card to handle a 3x faster fill rate, more RAM to keep track of higher resolution textures, and a bigger CPU, the cost is not trivial.

You can simulate this effect. Find a game that barely runs smoothly on your PC (or any PC, you might need an older one) at 640x480. Now increase the resolution by about 3x, like 1280x1024. Your framerate will drop considerably. On my computer, the framerate was essentially cut in half. That's just not acceptable for most video games.

[magikman]

All I've read is that 480p will be standard (required?). Maybe other options will be available?

[Frogger]

We actually do have one with it now, and I use it.

I was just saying, if Nintendo thought less than 1% of people was using it, and that they would just pull it then...why put it in the new console? Why put it in, take it out, and put it back in? I was afraid they would go 480i completely after pulling it from the GC.

I'm actually picking up a replacement refurbed GC at EBgames, 'cause our old one is basically dead. :(

I will be cheaper to send it to Nintendo for repairs than buy a new/used one from EB. It's like $50 bucks (including shipping!)

[GreenMonkey]

I will be cheaper to send it to Nintendo for repairs than buy a new/used one from EB. It's like $50 bucks (including shipping!)
Talked to my local mom n' pop store, he has a HS senior doing repairs for him now, $20 to repair, or $40 if it needs a new laser. :D Gonna get it patched up as soon as I get a chance to drop it off, all the EBgames refurbs were all beat up :sad:

[Quackzilla]

Thw best aspect og HSTV is not the better picture, it the refesh rate which is double that of regular TV, 60FPS.

[bostonfrontier]

Whether or not the revolution has hi-def doesn't matter since no one is going to buy a Nintendo Revolution anyways

[Purkeynator]

Whether or not the revolution has hi-def doesn't matter since no one is going to buy a Nintendo Revolution anyways

Yeah I bet. Only a few million.

[darthjones]

To add 720p to the Revolution would probobly cost Nintendo about 20 cents.
My guess is Nintendo will release the Revolution, then a year later release the Revolution SP or something with HD and make everyone buy it again. This is standard Nintendo strategy.
That is quite honestly one the stupidest and most ignorant thing I have read in these forums.

[Quackzilla]

Yeah I bet. Only a few million.
Probably more like 50 million, nut less than Xbox 360 and nowhere near PS3.

Nintendo still hasn't shaken the kiddy image and still doen't have enough RPG strength to win over the Final Fantasy fanboys.