This is absolutely disgusting...

[crickett003]

My fucking blood-pressure is rising due to the amount of lawlessness and chaos that is spreading through hurricane ravaged Louisiana.

These people firing upon evacuation vehicles is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of. These acts make me ashamed to be a human being.

javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/health/2005/09/01/gupta.katrina.hospital.sniper.cnn','2005/09/08');

My prayers are with them. :sad:

[opportunity777]

They should shoot every one of those motherfuckers that are shooting at the evacuation vehicles.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Indeed.

[Ravaged]

I agree. It really hurts me to see that people are this stupid. As opposed to helping eachother get through times like these they decide, "Hey, maybe if I loot this store for all it's worth something good will happen!" and, "Let's kill eachother because it's fun and we're not smart enough to grasp the idea that all it does is cause more chaos to add onto the fact that WE JUST GOT HIT BY ONE OF THE BIGGEST HURRICANES OF ALL TIME!!!" These people, and I don't mean to sound racist but the majority of them happen to be african american, really need to stop this bullshit. I'm beginning to question their ability to live under normal circumstances. All they're doing is making matters much worse, and it's a shame to see it.

[camoor]

Why would one shoot at an evacuation vehicle?

[mykevermin]

These people, and I don't mean to sound racist but the majority of them happen to be african american, really need to stop this bullshit.

It's pretty likely that a black person is doing something when they are 67%+ of the population down there, and probably a larger percentage of the underclass (that being those left behind this week). So, would you like to judge tens of thousands of people based upon the actions of a few? Would you like to continue to make blanket racist statements under the guise of some bullshit apologetic "I don't mean to sound racist" (which is *always* code for "I'm about to be racist") statement.

Instead, how about accepting that those who are retaliating with gunfire are anomolous of *all* trapped people down there. If 2% of the blacks there are firing at emergency vehicles, you are failing to recognize the 98% that are not. Again, you are trying to explain the exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself, by insinuating race. Real classy.

I'm beginning to question their ability to live under normal circumstances. All they're doing is making matters much worse, and it's a shame to see it.

Who are "they"? Blacks?

[jmcc]

I agree. It really hurts me to see that people are this stupid. As opposed to helping eachother get through times like these they decide, "Hey, maybe if I loot this store for all it's worth something good will happen!" and, "Let's kill eachother because it's fun and we're not smart enough to grasp the idea that all it does is cause more chaos to add onto the fact that WE JUST GOT HIT BY ONE OF THE BIGGEST HURRICANES OF ALL TIME!!!" These people, and I don't mean to sound racist but the majority of them happen to be african american, really need to stop this bullshit. I'm beginning to question their ability to live under normal circumstances. All they're doing is making matters much worse, and it's a shame to see it.

Wow. You didn't mean to sound racist there? What do you say when you really cut loose?

[ph33r m3]

I don't mean to be a prude but really these people that are shooting at the evacuation vans are people that aren't being saved. It's ridiculous how many people are on roof-tops that are diabetic and have the Red Cross symbol on their roof but get no help. Not enough cops/military or anyone along those lines to save these people. The thought of everyone working together, is a great thought but this is reality. When the fact that people have no water,food,ice, or dry clothing they have to do anything they can. Survival of the fittest at it's finest.

[rodeojones903]

It's pretty likely that a black person is doing something when they are 67%+ of the population down there, and probably a larger percentage of the underclass (that being those left behind this week). So, would you like to judge tens of thousands of people based upon the actions of a few? Would you like to continue to make blanket racist statements under the guise of some bullshit apologetic "I don't mean to sound racist" (which is *always* code for "I'm about to be racist") statement.

Instead, how about accepting that those who are retaliating with gunfire are anomolous of *all* trapped people down there. If 2% of the blacks there are firing at emergency vehicles, you are failing to recognize the 98% that are not. Again, you are trying to explain the exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself, by insinuating race. Real classy.



Who are "they"? Blacks?

I agree with Professor Murder. :D

[jmcc]

I don't mean to be a prude but really these people that are shooting at the evacuation vans are people that aren't being saved. It's ridiculous how many people are on roof-tops that are diabetic and have the Red Cross symbol on their roof but get no help. Not enough cops/military or anyone along those lines to save these people. The thought of everyone working together, is a great thought but this is reality. When the fact that people have no water,food,ice, or dry clothing they have to do anything they can. Survival of the fittest at it's finest.

And shooting at relief workers solves their problems, how?

[rodeojones903]

I don't mean to be a prude but really these people that are shooting at the evacuation vans are people that aren't being saved. It's ridiculous how many people are on roof-tops that are diabetic and have the Red Cross symbol on their roof but get no help. Not enough cops/military or anyone along those lines to save these people. The thought of everyone working together, is a great thought but this is reality. When the fact that people have no water,food,ice, or dry clothing they have to do anything they can. Survival of the fittest at it's finest.


How is stealing TVs and firing at vehicles trying to rescue people survival of the fittest? You are trying to justify what they are doing as ok, and it isnt.

[opportunity777]

It's that 50 cent music I tell ya! :lol:

Seriously though, I don't understand this because don't they want to be saved??? How are they going to survive if they keep this up? Like I said, whoever is doing it just shoot them and get it over with :-P

[b0bx13]

I don't mean to be a prude but really these people that are shooting at the evacuation vans are people that aren't being saved. It's ridiculous how many people are on roof-tops that are diabetic and have the Red Cross symbol on their roof but get no help. Not enough cops/military or anyone along those lines to save these people. The thought of everyone working together, is a great thought but this is reality. When the fact that people have no water,food,ice, or dry clothing they have to do anything they can. Survival of the fittest at it's finest.
If it was survival of the fittest, they would be trying to hijack a boat.

[Noodle Pirate!]

Why are they firing at evacuation vehicles? HELLO? has anyone played any FPS lately? What else do you do when some guy jumps in a vehicle and drives off without waiting for anyone else to hop in. They deserve it! JK
These are the incidents that make you pray karma is real. Sadly these bastards will live and continue to reproduce and drag us down. All you can do is pray for the ones who deserve to be saved.

[penmyst]

It has to be just devastating to go through something like that.

I'm sure many of the people are frustrated, and not so surprisingly in shock. What exactly do you do when something like this happens? It probably feels to them that the world is completely on it's head and feeling alone that there isn't any immediate relief in sight.

Their anger is displaced though. Too many people expect things to be solved instantaneously, and it just can't happen fast enough to please them.

The looters and shooters are of course- the bottom of the barrel. But that shouldn't mark EVERY person down there as scum.

[ph33r m3]

I'm not saying it's ok, but what hope do these people have? Reality is a lot more people that are alive right now will die due to heat exhaustion (reaching 90+ in the next 10 days), lack of food and water. If you see people looting and nothing's happening you would do the same thing, I don't know anybody that would be a 'nice person' in this situation. Are you gonna give the last cup of water to some stranger when you and your loved ones need it also? Hell no, your gonna keep it.

[lowgear26]

oh looky...more fucking racist talk.........I will say it again.....put yourselves in their shoes......or better yet....put all white people in this situation. The same Fucking crap would be happening because this Hurricane just Fucked up the Gulf and We dont have the help in place yet. Of course your gonna see black people looting....do you know why.....because most of these people were too poor to leave and blacks in New Orleans are mostly impoverished......thats not a racist comment its the fucking truth.

[Weedy649]

It's that 50 cent music I tell ya! :lol:

Seriously though, I don't understand this because don't they want to be saved??? How are they going to survive if they keep this up? Like I said, whoever is doing it just shoot them and get it over with :-P

Get rich or die trying......


well i think like someone pointed out, its about not being "rescued" first. If someone thinks they are going to be left to die, they are gonna be pretty fucking pissed at the people who are getting to leave. You might think its selfish(as do i) but when think about it as if you were there.

Your standing by while they save all the strangers who you dont know. As for the looters, i think they should all be shot to death if they are taking more then they need. Not because they are stealing(like if it matters if the TV gets fucked up in the store or in their hands from the water) but because they are hurting other people in a weak attempt to make money when they are about to die.

[ph33r m3]

oh looky...more ing racist talk.........I will say it again.....put yourselves in their shoes......or better yet....put all white people in this situation. The same ing crap would be happening because this Hurricane just ed up the Gulf and We dont have the help in place yet. Of course your gonna see black people looting....do you know why.....because most of these people were too poor to leave and blacks in New Orleans are mostly impoverished......thats not a racist comment its the ing truth.

Nobody brought up race....

[jmcc]

I'm not saying it's ok, but what hope do these people have? Reality is a lot more people that are alive right now will die due to heat exhaustion (reaching 90+ in the next 10 days), lack of food and water. If you see people looting and nothing's happening you would do the same thing, I don't know anybody that would be a 'nice person' in this situation. Are you gonna give the last cup of water to some stranger when you and your loved ones need it also? Hell no, your gonna keep it.

Again, how does shooting rescue vehicles help any of that?

[jmcc]

Nobody brought up race....

Yes, they did. Read the whole thread.

[ph33r m3]

whoops :dunce:

[lowgear26]

whoops :dunce:

Its ok man.....we forgive you

[guardian_owl]

Again, how does shooting rescue vehicles help any of that?
Indeed, many of the rescue vehicles are not venturing into certain areas BECAUSE of the shooting, many people may have ended up dooming themselves and others in the area because they bit at the few hands attempting to feed a thousand mouths.

[Scorch]

We had a discussion on this in class, talking about how stupid they are for shooting at the help.. then the guy next to me told me he got called to duty and had to drive to Daytona tomorrow, then fly to New Orleans.. that made it hit really close to home.

[ryanbph]

If you shoot the rescue vehicles or aid workers, due to them not helping you, how the fuck do you expect to get help. If you are taking out rescue people, then their are less to go around, and it will slow down the process. Yes I understand the area was destroyed, and they are under a lot of stress. Yes more can be done, but they are in a better position then the people that were living in indonesia (sp?) last year when they got hit with the storm.

[willardhaven]

So uh, this hurricane is pretty bad then?

My condolences to anyone with family or anyone actually down there.

[b0bx13]

So uh, this hurricane is pretty bad then?


Well, a major US city got completely wiped off the map...is that pretty bad?

[bostonfrontier]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me

[b0bx13]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me
I can't believe it, but I agree with you entirely. Hell, I sent my friend the link to the Drudge Report, and she thought it was some kind of weird joke site. She had no idea this stuff was actually happening.

[jmcc]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me

Wasn't there a Yankees game pretty soon after it? Bush threw out the first pitch at it, I think.

[willardhaven]

Hmmm what drudge report?

[bostonfrontier]

I can't believe it, but I agree with you entirely. .

First time for everything

[ryanbph]

Wasn't there a Yankees game pretty soon after it? Bush threw out the first pitch at it, I think.
yes that did happen, it was after 9/11, not sure how many days though. It was more of a publicity stunt to show that we weren't scared, and we were going to continue our daily lifestlye

[rodeojones903]

Wasn't there a Yankees game pretty soon after it? Bush threw out the first pitch at it, I think.


Why would Bush throw the first pitch at a random game? I call bullshit.

[alonzomourning23]

Why would Bush throw the first pitch at a random game? I call bullshit.

Well, lets see. He's the president, it was a yankees game, and new york is where the WTC was.

[adrianchan56]

wow shooting at a evac. vehicle. I guess ppl are jealous that others get to leave before them... I can understand looting for necessities but why cause' trouble when survival and cooperation is top priority.

[ryanbph]

Why would Bush throw the first pitch at a random game? I call bullshit.
If you looked at what I typed, about it being a publicity stunt to show America was strong, and would not deter. Also the comments Alonzo wrote, I would hope you could understand why he did it.

[rvdrock]

Looters burned down a mall today on the westbank...tell me what purpose does that serve, I am just sick...

[ph33r m3]

I heard the other day a man killed his sister for ice.

[Scahom1]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me

Wanna know what disgusts me??? I know people who don't even know what the hell is going on down there!

[kittie]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me

There's quite a difference between an unexpected, unprovoked attack that killed 5000 innocent people... and a destructive hurricane where for days these people were warned to GET OUT.

[alonzomourning23]

There's quite a difference between an unexpected, unprovoked attack that killed 5000 innocent people... and a destructive hurricane where for days these people were warned to GET OUT.

If your poor, have little money and no car, that could be a little difficult.

[kittie]

Even the poorest of people can find some access to transportation. I'm sure the welfare recipients in the projects could have afforded a few bucks to ride a bus.

[alonzomourning23]

Even the poorest of people can find some access to transportation. I'm sure the welfare recipients in the projects could have afforded a few bucks to ride a bus.

Watching the news, people who have lived through it, and who have dealt with those people, seem to disagree with that. Especially when you consider all the people who were leaving which filled up busses.

Though, buses that only cost a few bucks usually stay within in the city, or just go into neighboring towns. And then there was the issue of finding a place to stay when you left new orleans.

[rodeojones903]

Dont forget that there are people who most likely stayed just to loot.

[Blitz]

Even the poorest of people can find some access to transportation. I'm sure the welfare recipients in the projects could have afforded a few bucks to ride a bus.

Well it's a good idea if everyone hadn't thought of it first. You are talking about how many thousands of people trying to get out at once? It's not as easy as going down to the corner and taking a bus.


As far as the people shooting, it doesn't suprise me. This is what they want. Total anarchy. The city is theirs and they can rape, kill and maim anyone they want without getting caught. The scum of society.

[Duo_Maxwell]

funny how for 9/11 all sporting events stopped........... and for this even preseason NFL games continue..........that's what really disgusts me

One thing you fail to understand apparently is that major events such as football games weren't cancelled simply out of respect for what happened (Granted that may have been a part of it I suppose) or even aid efforts but they were cancelled and evacuated because everyone thought they could be the next big terror target. The primary motivator was fear. For the rest of that week everyone was wondering if it could happen again and where. Every major event and building in the whole nation was clear for at least a day or two, all flights were ground, etc. They even closed Disney Land and SeaWorld.

[camoor]

Even the poorest of people can find some access to transportation. I'm sure the welfare recipients in the projects could have afforded a few bucks to ride a bus.

I'll help you out, here's a quote you'll find handy:Let them eat cake.

- Marie Antoinette

[mykevermin]

Wanna know what disgusts me??? I know people who don't even know what the hell is going on down there!

Now that's fucking nauseating. As long as they're keeping up with "Survivor," I suppose.

[willardhaven]

Now I have to know, was everyone given evacuation notice before it was impossible to leave the area? From what I read it seems they had ample time to escape.

[b0bx13]

There's quite a difference between an unexpected, unprovoked attack that killed 5000 innocent people... and a destructive hurricane where for days these people were warned to GET OUT.
I agree with you that there is a difference. But I have a strong feeling this will be worse, for more people.

[mykevermin]

Now I have to know, was everyone given evacuation notice before it was impossible to leave the area? From what I read it seems they had ample time to escape.

And not ample resources. Not everyone "chose" to stay, and if you examine the majority of people there, almost everyone is a member of the underclass. It's not like your middleclass neighbor stayed home and left his Lexus in the garage, these are poor people with no cars, no family outside of NO, and thus lack the resources and knowledge to get outta town.

I wonder if it was possible for the NO nat'l guard to work, in compliance with police and transit authorities, to force people to leave (and providing them resources to do so). In other words, could the authorities have done 6-7 days ago what they are currently trying to do now?

[MaxBiaggi3]

From what I read it seems they had ample time to escape.

A lot of people did evacuate safely, but some people (mostly the poor) didn't have the same access to personal/public transportation and/or the financial backing to just pick up and leave. Of course, many had sick and/or elderly family members that who couldn't easily leave either.

[rodeojones903]

And not ample resources. Not everyone "chose" to stay, and if you examine the majority of people there, almost everyone is a member of the underclass. It's not like your middleclass neighbor stayed home and left his Lexus in the garage, these are poor people with no cars, no family outside of NO, and thus lack the resources and knowledge to get outta town.

I wonder if it was possible for the NO nat'l guard to work, in compliance with police and transit authorities, to force people to leave (and providing them resources to do so). In other words, could the authorities have done 6-7 days ago what they are currently trying to do now?

The authorities could not have know it would turn into the situation it did though. Listening to the radio I heard that when the hurricane was at Florida it was a catagory one, and progressed to a 5 quickly. People outlasted the hurricane with out too many problems, the breaking of the leavy caused all the floodling. This is not something that the government could have predicted.

[mykevermin]

The authorities could not have know it would turn into the situation it did though. Listening to the radio I heard that when the hurricane was at Florida it was a catagory one, and progressed to a 5 quickly. People outlasted the hurricane with out too many problems, the breaking of the leavy caused all the floodling. This is not something that the government could have predicted.

While I understand your points, immediately after the storm (and before the real damage began), analysts began to breathe a sigh of relief, because the hurricane was not as bad as was predicted (since it went more east than predicted, and downgraded to a category 4 before touching NO). So, if what was predicted was worse than what actually happened, there is simply no excuse.

Also, not everyone is convinced that the levees breaking couldn't be predicted. The NO Times-Picayune said as much in June of 2004 (article cites the NOT-P source: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)

[greydemise]

wat really got me, was hearing that GANGS have already formed in the superdome, ppl are already being extorted from wat little they already have, girls as young as 16 are being raped, murders have been happening...this is really sad

[bmsdaddy]

While I understand your points, immediately after the storm (and before the real damage began), analysts began to breathe a sigh of relief, because the hurricane was not as bad as was predicted (since it went more east than predicted, and downgraded to a category 4 before touching NO). So, if what was predicted was worse than what actually happened, there is simply no excuse.

Also, not everyone is convinced that the levees breaking couldn't be predicted. The NO Times-Picayune said as much in June of 2004 (article cites the NOT-P source: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)


This article http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.fema.brown/index.html mentions that the levees were only designed to handle a catagory 3 storm. Another article, can't find the link, mentioned that a lot of people stayed because past evacuation orders were followed by storms that did little to no damage and they assumed the same would happen again.

[help1]

Did we really need another hurricane katrina topic?

[1modernboy]

I wonder if it was possible for the NO nat'l guard to work, in compliance with police and transit authorities, to force people to leave (and providing them resources to do so). In other words, could the authorities have done 6-7 days ago what they are currently trying to do now?

That's what I keep thinking about too, myke. Shouldn't mandatory evacuation mean everyone out and here's how? We can piss and moan all day about how many millions of tax dollars could have been wasted if the storm had truly petered out before landfall and we'd gone to all the trouble of a choreographed evacuation, but goddamnit isn't that why we collect taxes in the first place? To provide for the common good of the citizenry?

[MaxBiaggi3]

Did we really need another hurricane katrina topic?

Need? Well, another hurricane katrina topic isn't exactly food, shelter or clothing on the necessities list, but come on and admit it, you really wanted another katrina topic, didn't you? :D

[bostonfrontier]

Its a war zone in New Orleans right now...........man, it keeps getting worse and worse

[help1]

Need? Well, another hurricane katrina topic isn't exactly food, shelter or clothing on the necessities list, but come on and admit it, you really wanted another katrina topic, didn't you? :D

Instead of talking about the katrina problems, do what the mayor said " Get off your damn asses" and take some action if u care so much.

[alonzomourning23]

I saw in an article that there was a chemical plant explosion

New Orleans, LA (CBS/AP) - An explosion jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over the city where corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts, as Americans watched the Big Easy dissolve before their eyes.

"We're being told that this was a toxic chemical plant explosion," reports CBS News Correspondent Cami McCormick. "It was a long, low rumbling this morning — I've never heard anything like it. It lit up the sky, it actually illuminated the sky."

The blast occurred at a chemical storage facility near the Mississippi River east of the French Quarter, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. Francis did not have any other information about the explosions and did not know if there were any casualties. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene and a hazardous material team was on route.


http://www.wben.com/newsroom/fullstory.php?newsid=03651

Anyone hear about this?

[alonzomourning23]

This would normally be funny, but the situation seems to prevent that. It seems that the astrodome now has its own zip code due to all the people in it 77230. Also, they've cancelled all events in the astrodome until december.

[Kayden]

That's what I keep thinking about too, myke. Shouldn't mandatory evacuation mean everyone out and here's how? We can piss and moan all day about how many millions of tax dollars could have been wasted if the storm had truly petered out before landfall and we'd gone to all the trouble of a choreographed evacuation, but goddamnit isn't that why we collect taxes in the first place? To provide for the common good of the citizenry?

:rofl: ... Oh... you're serious.

Tax dollars for helping the common man? Yea, thats why things like education are getting cuts left and right. Sending troops to war and then making them buy their own armor? Tution in MN has gone up 6-16% over the past few years because the government has cut over 54 million in higher education. The government hasn't been about the people in quite a while.

[cgpwns]

well i think like someone pointed out, its about not being "rescued" first. If someone thinks they are going to be left to die, they are gonna be pretty fucking pissed at the people who are getting to leave. You might think its selfish(as do i) but when think


*SPOILERS (War of the Worlds Remake)*






Thats exactly like in War of the Worlds when the town mobs and almost kills Cruise and his family just to get their van. As you can see it accomplishes nothing other than more death and chaos.

You do have to ask yourself though. Why is it that the press can go on and on about how the government isn't helping yet I don't see them making a huge effort to feed or resuce people. There have been a few instances where they have given water or helped someone, but its not a high priority. I also thought it was pretty screwed up that they said that they "think" that the guy that pulled a man out of a sinking vehicle was a reporter for their station. Its like they want to put themselves on a high pedestal or something and make our government look bad at the same time.

[niceguyshawne]

This would normally be funny, but the situation seems to prevent that. It seems that the astrodome now has its own zip code due to all the people in it 77230. Also, they've cancelled all events in the astrodome until december.


I wasn't aware the Astrodome was still used.

[alonzomourning23]

I wasn't aware the Astrodome was still used.


CNN said they announced that the schedule had been cleared until december, so I would assume it is.

[1modernboy]

:rofl: ... Oh... you're serious.

Tax dollars for helping the common man? Yea, thats why things like education are getting cuts left and right. Sending troops to war and then making them buy their own armor? Tution in MN has gone up 6-16% over the past few years because the government has cut over 54 million in higher education. The government hasn't been about the people in quite a while.

Exactly my point. I'm just saying I'd like to see some of those dollars put to legitimate use.

[Abdullah2]

I wasn't aware the Astrodome was still used.

it's used for rodeo sometimes or drift show or others.
there's some houstonions acting like they are from new orleans asking for money, so if you want to give help to the katrina sufferers i recommend american red cross because they take some precautions like checking for id

[ryanbph]

And not ample resources. Not everyone "chose" to stay, and if you examine the majority of people there, almost everyone is a member of the underclass. It's not like your middleclass neighbor stayed home and left his Lexus in the garage, these are poor people with no cars, no family outside of NO, and thus lack the resources and knowledge to get outta town.

I wonder if it was possible for the NO nat'l guard to work, in compliance with police and transit authorities, to force people to leave (and providing them resources to do so). In other words, could the authorities have done 6-7 days ago what they are currently trying to do now?
Please, like the ACLU wouldn't been all over that one. Forcing people to leave their homes/private property. Their would have been hell to pay for that. If they had, they would have been put into what would essentially be a camp. You don't think the news would have been shitting all over that, a week before the hurricane came. Having a reporter at a camp, interviewing someone that was forced out of her home, and put into a shitty ass camp, and then when the hurricane hit florida, and was only a level 1, it would have gotten worse for the US gov't

[mtxbass1]

there's some houstonions acting like they are from new orleans asking for money

Man, that's just low, but doesn't suprise me one bit.

[trq]

A lot of people did evacuate safely, but some people (mostly the poor) didn't have the same access to personal/public transportation and/or the financial backing to just pick up and leave. Of course, many had sick and/or elderly family members that who couldn't easily leave either.

I really feel for the people who stayed behind to be with loved ones who couldn't themselves go, but I'm kinda with Kitty on this. Even if you're poor, you (probably) have legs. I walked for three and a half hours to get out of Manhattan on 9/11 -- if I had a week and a half notice that my city was going to be 90% underwater, I'd have walked my ass day and night, until I was three states north.

[mykevermin]

Please, like the ACLU wouldn't been all over that one. Forcing people to leave their homes/private property. Their would have been hell to pay for that. If they had, they would have been put into what would essentially be a camp. You don't think the news would have been shitting all over that, a week before the hurricane came. Having a reporter at a camp, interviewing someone that was forced out of her home, and put into a shitty ass camp, and then when the hurricane hit florida, and was only a level 1, it would have gotten worse for the US gov't

Nice speculation. Too bad it is completely and totally unfounded; in the event of a *mandatory evacuation,* it is the community's responsibility (and that means the government) for making sure people get out.

There's no discrimination to be had; you get the fuck out if you're rich, you get the fuck out if you're poor, you get the fuck out if you're...well, you get the idea. Where in the hell does this reactionary shit come from in your brain?

But, to be fair, your argument is that, had authorities made sure that more people were forced out of their homes, they'd be forced into shelters?

So, your concern with the way things I suggested is that we would be right where we are, right fucking now, but with thousands less dead? Like I said, I hope the absence of such precautionary measures isn't due to bumbling idiots who get cold feet and are afraid of some nonsensical fear of ACLU threats. Where in the hell do you come up with this stuff?

[MaxBiaggi3]

Instead of talking about the katrina problems, do what the mayor said " Get off your damn asses" and take some action if u care so much.

Come now, don't be like that. I really don't care so much, but I do find taking about the situation to be vaguely entertaining, like rubbernecking at an automobile accident. :D

[alonzomourning23]

I really feel for the people who stayed behind to be with loved ones who couldn't themselves go, but I'm kinda with Kitty on this. Even if you're poor, you (probably) have legs. I walked for three and a half hours to get out of Manhattan on 9/11 -- if I had a week and a half notice that my city was going to be 90% underwater, I'd have walked my ass day and night, until I was three states north.

It was only a few days when they realized that the hurricane was coming towards them, and the evacuation was only a day or two before the hurricane if I remember correctly. And no one was telling them the levees were going to break, which is what actually flooded and destroyed the city. Also remember a major hurricane hit them directly in 1969 and the city was still standing, many assumed it would be the same. The risk of this sort of destruction was not something the population was aware of. Now government officials who had been ignoring and squashing warnings for years is another thing.

Though, question for ya, say you did manage to walk out of the city, where ya gonna stay? If you don't have family to stay at or money for a room, what were you gonna do?

[niceguyshawne]

If you don't have family to stay at or money for a room, what were you gonna do?


He's just gonna keep on walking...

[trq]

It was only a few days when they realized that the hurricane was coming towards them, and the evacuation was only a day or two before the hurricane if I remember correctly.

Yeah, fair enough. It really seems like I had been hearing warnings about how bad it was going to be for much longer, but you're probably right.

And no one was telling them the levees were going to break, which is what actually flooded and destroyed the city.

Although the levees were only built to withstand a Category 3. I'm inclined to chalk that one up to bumbling bureaucrats, but then, if I lived in N'awlins, I'd make it a point to know that sort of thing myself. I mean, can Californians really be surprised when they're hit with earthquakes? Kansas-ians with tornados? I know all of my options for getting off the island I live on, though I admit that was a lesson learned the hard way.

Also remember a major hurricane hit them directly in 1969 and the city was still standing, many assumed it would be the same. The risk of this sort of destruction was not something the population was aware of. Now government officials who had been ignoring and squashing warnings for years is another thing.

And you know what happens when you assume. That's all I'm saying.

Though, question for ya, say you did manage to walk out of the city, where ya gonna stay? If you don't have family to stay at or money for a room, what were you gonna do?

Does it matter? I'd happily sleep in a roadside ditch or under an overpass or in a public park rather than in 9 feet of water, or with a shard of lumber whipped into my head at 145 mph. You live in a city known for flooding, you have no car, very little money, and with two or three days warning, the news and the government tell you the worst storm the country has ever seen is headed your way. What do you do? You get the hell out, however you can, and "I don't have a car" just doesn't seem like that much of an obstacle in comparison to the alternative.

I don't mean to come off as some kind of "victim hater" or something -- I just know that neither the lack of funds or a car would have kept me from getting as far away from that coast as is physically possible in two days.

[camoor]

I really feel for the people who stayed behind to be with loved ones who couldn't themselves go, but I'm kinda with Kitty on this. Even if you're poor, you (probably) have legs. I walked for three and a half hours to get out of Manhattan on 9/11 -- if I had a week and a half notice that my city was going to be 90% underwater, I'd have walked my ass day and night, until I was three states north.

So it took you 3 1/2 hours to walk out of a small subsection of a city. Whooopedee dooo

Do you have any idea how long it would take to walk outside of the New Orleans flood zone?

I am young and fit, and it took me 6 hours to hike 8 miles of semi-rough terrain.

If someone lives in a rural part of town, is poor, older, and does not have money to properly stock up on hiking supplies, how the hell are they supposed to walk to dry land?

[alonzomourning23]

Although the levees were only built to withstand a Category 3. I'm inclined to chalk that one up to bumbling bureaucrats, but then, if I lived in N'awlins, I'd make it a point to know that sort of thing myself. I mean, can Californians really be surprised when they're hit with earthquakes? Kansas-ians with tornados? I know all of my options for getting off the island I live on, though I admit that was a lesson learned the hard way.

It's not the peoples responsibility to keep up on all the info that even the government ignores. You can't blame them for not knowing information that wasn't accessable without digging.



And you know what happens when you assume. That's all I'm saying.

When fleeing the city would mean being homeless for the time, and having to walk out and likely walk back into the city, your understanding of what is about to happen will play a great role.



Does it matter? I'd happily sleep in a roadside ditch or under an overpass or in a public park rather than in 9 feet of water, or with a shard of lumber whipped into my head at 145 mph. You live in a city known for flooding, you have no car, very little money, and with two or three days warning, the news and the government tell you the worst storm the country has ever seen is headed your way. What do you do? You get the hell out, however you can, and "I don't have a car" just doesn't seem like that much of an obstacle in comparison to the alternative.

I don't mean to come off as some kind of "victim hater" or something -- I just know that neither the lack of funds or a car would have kept me from getting as far away from that coast as is physically possible in two days.

The government did not say it was the worst storm ever seen. The levees were not expected to break (warnings were repeatedly ignored and virtually unknown to people and unexpected by government).

People didn't expect this, fleeing on foot, and living homeless for a while is not something people take lightly, it appears most people can see that. You don't seem to understand that the people in the city had no idea that this was going to happen, that the levees would break and new orleands would be destroyed. Government officials didn't expect this and therefore didn't mention it (now whether they should have expected it is different). Camille was a major hurricane, and the city was left standing. That convinced many who couldn't get out that the same would happen again. You seem to think everyone expected this to be the result, that's not the case.

[jmcc]

I don't want to turn this into a vs. topic, but the thing is, they [engineers] knew back in the Clinton presidency that the levees wouldn't hold up to this kind of storm. In fact, that administration marked out, I think, 600 million in federal funds to shore them up to withstand this kind of storm. The glitch came when, like, 250 million in needed funds were poached away from the project for the other projects (read: Iraq.)

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

[kittie]

Walking out of New Orleans wasn't really an option. The only way you can go is west to Baton Rouge, and I don't even know if that's possible with the land there.

My point is that there's no reason for about half of New Orleans to stay there during the hurricane. Even the poorest people in projects have access to cars, or know somebody with them. Outgoing roads remained open into Monday morning. Buses were still leaving NO until Sunday morning. I knew Friday that the hurricane was going to be pure destruction, and I'm sure the people were well-informed.

It's like here in Buffalo when we get the Mandatory No Driving rules set down by the county because of the snow, but there's still tons of idiots that continue driving, and die.

My main hope is that we try to save as many as these people in New Orleans... and then the city becomes a thing of the past. It's far too dangerous to live there. I don't care how they improve the levees and flood control... when you're surrounded by water that's ABOVE the level of a huge city close to the Gulf coast where major hurricanes are common, that's not good.

[alonzomourning23]

Citing some CNN statistics on the news, in New Orleans 40% of children are poor, 100,000 were considered "immobile" by the government (old, no transportation or infirmed), 70% of the population is black and poverty is twice the national average in that city. The overwhelming majority of those left in the city are black, and the overwhelming majority of those left behind in the beginning were poor, black, old or sick. Many are saying the difference between those who lived and died is poverty, age and skin color. I may be expanding and going outside the debate here, but, true or not, that doesn't look like an unfair assumption.

[alonzomourning23]

Even the poorest people in projects have access to cars, or know somebody with them. Outgoing roads remained open into Monday morning. Buses were still leaving NO until Sunday morning. I knew Friday that the hurricane was going to be pure destruction, and I'm sure the people were well-informed.

It's like here in Buffalo when we get the Mandatory No Driving rules set down by the county because of the snow, but there's still tons of idiots that continue driving, and die.

I don't mean this to be offensive or anything, but it's difficult to say it without sounding condenscending (which I'm not trying to be). Buffalo is not a big city, the public transportation system is poor there. It's a famous city and one that was a major city, but new orleans, and most other cities, are nothing like buffalo. New orleans is the 9th poorest city in the country. Cars are not mandatory there to get around, and many, many of them do not have cars. I have visited there (and not to party), I obviously don't know a lot about new orleans other than what I got from the week I was there, but the way buffalo is set up is very different. Buffalo, compared to major cities I've been in, just isn't comparable.

But even if they knew someone with a car, if you have a family of 4 or 5 in a car how exactly is anyone else going to use it? Some trucks only fit 2 people, and unless you have an suv you're not really gonna get more than 5, and that's before any stuff you try to save or take with you like clothes, food etc.

But the hurricane was seen as a repeat of camille, which the city stood against. And the level of destruction was unexpected, especially the levees breaking. These are people without transportation, public transportation out of the city filled up. Many old and poor do not have the internet, cutting off any information they could have possibly learned outside of what they were told on tv. Many people do not have the access or ability to gain the same info as you or I, and virtually no one expected this level of destruction.

[Puzznic]

What i don't get is if some of the people that stayed were to poor to evacuate, then why do alot of them have 3 and 4 kids.

[mykevermin]

What i don't get is if some of the people that stayed were to poor to evacuate, then why do alot of them have 3 and 4 kids.

Show me the poor people you are talking about. Show me the people that you know, without a doubt, have 3 or 4 children.

Since you can't, shut your fucking dipshit Rush Limbaugh mouth until you can offer something to the topic more substantive than asinine Sean Hannity-approved talking points.

[trq]

So it took you 3 1/2 hours to walk out of a small subsection of a city. Whooopedee dooo

Do you have any idea how long it would take to walk outside of the New Orleans flood zone?

I do, actually. It takes about eight hours to drive to Baton Rouge from NO, so you obviously couldn't make that on foot, walking at about 4 miles per hour, but that's the direction I'd point myself, at least. It would take much less than that if you only wanted to make it out of New Orleans. It isn't that big of a city; you can walk it -- lengthwise -- in an afternoon. Seriously -- I haven't argued that health reasons and loved ones unable to travel and many other reasons to stay aren't involved; just that "no car, no money" wouldn't stop me, personally. As someone already said, no need for this to be "vs."

[alonzomourning23]

I do, actually. It takes about eight hours to drive to Baton Rouge from NO, so you obviously couldn't make that on foot, walking at about 4 miles per hour, but that's the direction I'd point myself, at least. It would take much less than that if you only wanted to make it out of New Orleans. It isn't that big of a city; you can walk it -- lengthwise -- in an afternoon. Seriously -- I haven't argued that health reasons and loved ones unable to travel and many other reasons to stay aren't involved; just that "no car, no money" wouldn't stop me, personally. As someone already said, no need for this to be "vs."


But the surrounding area was hit as well, you would have needed to walk farther than just out of new orleans. But I think you overstate how aware everyone, probably including yourself, was of what was about to occur. It's hindsight bias, plain and simple.

[lowgear26]

I love people......The government wants Blacks to die........If government officials really believe this then this country will not last another 20 years. These Congressmen play the race card any time they can and its sick. Oh look Jesse Jackson is comparing the people stranded to slavery......my God he needs to shut the hell up.

[alonzomourning23]

I love people......The government wants Blacks to die........If government officials really believe this then this country will not last another 20 years. These Congressmen play the race card any time they can and its sick.

No ones saying that, but many are suggesting that was one of the reasons for slow response and delayed concern. Not so much intentional racism, but subconscious.

[lowgear26]

No ones saying that, but many are suggesting that was one of the reasons for slow response and delayed concern.

true they dont outright say it but when the comparisons of race and how fast the government is going are made....they all but accuse the government of intentionally not help the blacks down there......I have seen quite a few white people suffering too....its not like they are getting food and water and blacks watch.....this is just stupid

[trq]

The government did not say it was the worst storm ever seen. The levees were not expected to break (warnings were repeatedly ignored and virtually unknown to people and unexpected by government).

People didn't expect this, fleeing on foot, and living homeless for a while is not something people take lightly, it appears most people can see that. You don't seem to understand that the people in the city had no idea that this was going to happen, that the levees would break and new orleands would be destroyed. Government officials didn't expect this and therefore didn't mention it (now whether they should have expected it is different). Camille was a major hurricane, and the city was left standing. That convinced many who couldn't get out that the same would happen again. You seem to think everyone expected this to be the result, that's not the case.

Points all well taken. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say, and if you aren't 100% sure how bad things are going to be, I can understand being reluctant to leave. But the severity was no surprise. Even before Katrina hit Florida, bad things were being predicted for NO.

http://www.local6.com/weather/4905994/detail.html

"The hurricane's landfall could still come in Mississippi and affect Alabama and Florida, but it looked likely to come ashore Monday morning on the southeastern Louisiana coast, said Ed Rappaport, deputy director of the National Hurricane Center in Miami. That put New Orleans squarely in the crosshairs.

"If it came ashore with the intensity it has now and went to the New Orleans area, it would be the strongest we've had in recorded history there," Rappaport said in a telephone interview Sunday morning. "We're hoping of course there'll be a slight tapering off at least of the winds, but we can't plan on that. So whichever area gets hit, this is going to be a once in a lifetime event for them."

He said loss of life was "what inevitably occurs" with a storm this strong.

"We're in for some trouble here no matter what," he said.

The storm had the potential for storm surge flooding of up to 25 feet, topped with even higher waves, as much as 15 inches of rain, and tornadoes.

New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin was exploring the idea of ordering a mandatory evacuation.

Katrina formed in the Bahamas and ripped across South Florida on Thursday as a Category 1 storm before moving into the Gulf of Mexico where surface water temperatures were as high as 90 degrees -- high-octane fuel for hurricanes.

Nagin said he spoke to a forecaster at the hurricane center who told him that "this is the storm New Orleans has feared these many years."

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a test. This is the real deal," he warned Saturday. "Board up your homes, make sure you have enough medicine, make sure the car has enough gas. Do all things you normally do for a hurricane but treat this one differently because it is pointed towards New Orleans."

Some tourists heeded the warnings and moved up their departures, and lines of tourists waited for cabs on New Orleans' famed Bourbon Street.

But plenty of people in the French Quarter stayed put, and bars were rocking Saturday night.

"The only dangerous hurricanes so far are the ones we've been drinking," said Fred Wilson of San Francisco, as he sipped one of the famous drinks at Pat O'Brien's Bar. "We can't get out, so we might as well have fun."

New Orleans' worst hurricane disaster happened 40 years ago, when Hurricane Betsy blasted the Gulf Coast. Flooding approached 20 feet deep in some areas, fishing villages were flattened, and the storm surge left almost half of New Orleans under water and 60,000 residents homeless. Seventy-four people died in Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida.

Katrina could be especially devastating if it strikes New Orleans because the city sits below sea level and is dependent on levees and pumps to keep the water out. A direct hit could wind up submerging the city in several feet of water."

Heck, even before Katrina, it was pretty obvious that NO was especially vulnerable to this sort of thing.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans.htm

"New Orleans is a disaster waiting to happen, with the Gulf of Mexico, a large lake close by, and a river running through town. This type of construction has spread from Maine to Texas as we convince each other that we must live closer to the ocean. Eventually a mature hurricane will strike, and the storm surge will inundate everything in its path.

The hurricane moves ashore. In the above example, a 15-foot surge added to the normal 2-foot tide creates a storm tide of 17 feet. This mound of water, topped by battering waves, moves ashore along an area of the coastline as much as 100 miles wide. The combination of the storm surge, battering waves, and high winds is deadly.

The storm surge claims nine out of every ten hurricane victims. This great dome of water sweeps across the coastline as the storm makes landfall. Spectators, who should not be out there, are caught by the surge as the giant wave carries away everything in its path."

Note: above significantly snipped for repetition.

As I applied some Google-Fu for all this, I turned up one more sad bit of info: homeowners' insurance doesn't cover flooding.

[alonzomourning23]

true they dont outright say it but when the comparisons of race and how fast the government is going are made....they all but accuse the government of intentionally not help the blacks down there......I have seen quite a few white people suffering too....its not like they are getting food and water and blacks watch.....this is just stupid

They accuse them of not being as concerned because they're poor and black. Most of the white people there are either poor or old. They're not saying that they said "well, we'd help them but they're black", they're saying they just weren't as concerned, it didn't create the same emotional response.

[lowgear26]

They accuse them of not being as concerned because they're poor and black. Most of the white people there are either poor or old. They're not saying that they said "well, we'd help them but they're black", they're saying they just weren't as concerned, it didn't create the same emotional response.

Jesse Jackson compared the blacks in New Orleans on highways to being in Slave ships.....he also said that we responded faster for 9/11 and if this hurricane happened in NYC the response would be greater......9/11 destroyed 2 major buildings......they had roads....access to food....water and they had power and communications. Of course it would be a better response because the infrastructure was there. The race battle is in full swing because of black politions criticizing their own government and the media gulping this stuff up because its a good story.

[racthamp]

I'm from Thailand and when the Tsunami hit last year.. it was one of the coolest thing to see how people (both locally and from other provinces) work together to lessen the disastrous strikes.. judging from the images i've seen here.. it's somewhat similar to what happened backthere... there were tons of voluteer from all over the country traveling to the site to help out... it was quite cool indeed...

[alonzomourning23]

Points all well taken. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say, and if you aren't 100% sure how bad things are going to be, I can understand being reluctant to leave. But the severity was no surprise. Even before Katrina hit Florida, bad things were being predicted for NO.

http://www.local6.com/weather/4905994/detail.html

"The hurricane's landfall could still come in Mississippi and affect Alabama and Florida, but it looked likely to come ashore Monday morning on the southeastern Louisiana coast, said Ed Rappaport, deputy director of the National Hurricane Center in Miami. That put New Orleans squarely in the crosshairs.

"If it came ashore with the intensity it has now and went to the New Orleans area, it would be the strongest we've had in recorded history there," Rappaport said in a telephone interview Sunday morning. "We're hoping of course there'll be a slight tapering off at least of the winds, but we can't plan on that. So whichever area gets hit, this is going to be a once in a lifetime event for them."

He said loss of life was "what inevitably occurs" with a storm this strong.

"We're in for some trouble here no matter what," he said.

The storm had the potential for storm surge flooding of up to 25 feet, topped with even higher waves, as much as 15 inches of rain, and tornadoes.

New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin was exploring the idea of ordering a mandatory evacuation.

Katrina formed in the Bahamas and ripped across South Florida on Thursday as a Category 1 storm before moving into the Gulf of Mexico where surface water temperatures were as high as 90 degrees -- high-octane fuel for hurricanes.

Nagin said he spoke to a forecaster at the hurricane center who told him that "this is the storm New Orleans has feared these many years."

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a test. This is the real deal," he warned Saturday. "Board up your homes, make sure you have enough medicine, make sure the car has enough gas. Do all things you normally do for a hurricane but treat this one differently because it is pointed towards New Orleans."

Some tourists heeded the warnings and moved up their departures, and lines of tourists waited for cabs on New Orleans' famed Bourbon Street.

But plenty of people in the French Quarter stayed put, and bars were rocking Saturday night.

"The only dangerous hurricanes so far are the ones we've been drinking," said Fred Wilson of San Francisco, as he sipped one of the famous drinks at Pat O'Brien's Bar. "We can't get out, so we might as well have fun."

New Orleans' worst hurricane disaster happened 40 years ago, when Hurricane Betsy blasted the Gulf Coast. Flooding approached 20 feet deep in some areas, fishing villages were flattened, and the storm surge left almost half of New Orleans under water and 60,000 residents homeless. Seventy-four people died in Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida.

Katrina could be especially devastating if it strikes New Orleans because the city sits below sea level and is dependent on levees and pumps to keep the water out. A direct hit could wind up submerging the city in several feet of water."

Heck, even before Katrina, it was pretty obvious that NO was especially vulnerable to this sort of thing.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans.htm

"New Orleans is a disaster waiting to happen, with the Gulf of Mexico, a large lake close by, and a river running through town. This type of construction has spread from Maine to Texas as we convince each other that we must live closer to the ocean. Eventually a mature hurricane will strike, and the storm surge will inundate everything in its path.

The hurricane moves ashore. In the above example, a 15-foot surge added to the normal 2-foot tide creates a storm tide of 17 feet. This mound of water, topped by battering waves, moves ashore along an area of the coastline as much as 100 miles wide. The combination of the storm surge, battering waves, and high winds is deadly.

The storm surge claims nine out of every ten hurricane victims. This great dome of water sweeps across the coastline as the storm makes landfall. Spectators, who should not be out there, are caught by the surge as the giant wave carries away everything in its path."

Note: above significantly snipped for repetition.

As I applied some Google-Fu for all this, I turned up one more sad bit of info: homeowners' insurance doesn't cover flooding.

But any information that was not readily accesable to the population should not be expected to be general knowledge. What you can find on google is not indicative of what the average person knew or was told. I've posted warnings that government officials failed to act on, but this wasn't info the general population was expected to know.

Even in your first link, many poor families, with no mode of transportation out, assumed it would be like the previous hurricanes. Even if it was a repeat of camille, new orleans was expected to stand like the last time. It was not a sure thing, or expected thing, in peoples minds. Your talking about many people which, if they had left, would have had no place to go to, as they could not afford shelter. And, again, the most important thing to note when understanding what those people thought is evident in your first link, NO always withstood the flooding.

You also have to keep in mind that the information brought up on google is very different from what the average person was told and expected, in new orleans and throughout the country.

[lowgear26]

I'm from Thailand and when the Tsunami hit last year.. it was one of the coolest thing to see how people (both locally and from other provinces) work together to lessen the disastrous strikes.. judging from the images i've seen here.. it's somewhat similar to what happened backthere... there were tons of voluteer from all over the country traveling to the site to help out... it was quite cool indeed...

thats what (most) people do is help each other out....and there is a lot of that going on here but we have to be fighting and pointing fingers at each other for political issues and not 100% focus on saving lives....our country should be viewed as a fucking joke now.

[alonzomourning23]

Jesse Jackson compared the blacks in New Orleans on highways to being in Slave ships.....he also said that we responded faster for 9/11 and if this hurricane happened in NYC the response would be greater......9/11 destroyed 2 major buildings......they had roads....access to food....water and they had power and communications. Of course it would be a better response because the infrastructure was there. The race battle is in full swing because of black politions criticizing their own government and the media gulping this stuff up because its a good story.

I just watched that interview and he did not. He compared the conditions inside the dome to a slave ship, hard to argue with and hard to argue that everything possible was done to get them food and water. His argument was that america has an extremely high thresshold for black pain, we tolerate it much easier than if it had happened to whites. Again, suggesting that white people subconsciously are as concerned about blacks suffering as seeing their own suffering (whites) would be a bit naive. It often doesn't hit as close to home when the people don't look like you, or you have another reason (poor and lazy) that separates them from you.


Though, with all the accusations flying, it's probably made the government very conscious as to do its best to stop those accusations from having validity currently and in the future.

[lowgear26]

I just watched that interview and he did not. He compared the conditions inside the dome to a slave ship, hard to argue with and hard to argue that everything possible was done to get them food and water. His argument was that america has an extremely high thresshold for black pain, we tolerate it much easier than if it had happened to whites. Again, suggesting that white people subconsciously are as concerned about blacks suffering as seeing their own suffering (whites) would be a bit naive. It often doesn't hit as close to home when the people don't look like you, or you have another reason (poor and lazy) that separates them from you.

He was interviewed on a radio show around 1200PM......dont know which one......where his comments were not as refined....and there was more hostility towards the Feds in those comments......I guess my whole point is why must our own politicians throw the race battle into this.....all it does is make America look like a joke and show how 80% of these elected officials put their own agenda ahead of the greater good.

[bostonfrontier]

I don't know about you guys, but I would have found a way out of the city after the hurrcane passed once I looked outside and saw what the city looked like knowing that it would probably be days before any help came.

And if the roads and path out of town were impassible, I would have found a way to pass them......

[alonzomourning23]

He was interviewed on a radio show around 1200PM......dont know which one......where his comments were not as refined....and there was more hostility towards the Feds in those comments......I guess my whole point is why must our own politicians throw the race battle into this.....all it does is make America look like a joke and show how 80% of these elected officials put their own agenda ahead of the greater good.

Oh, didn't realize that. I saw him on cnn, not sure if it was a cnn interview or one cnn was airing though.

[alonzomourning23]

I don't know about you guys, but I would have found a way out of the city after the hurrcane passed once I looked outside and saw what the city looked like knowing that it would probably be days before any help came.

And if the roads and path out of town were impassible, I would have found a way to pass them......

Why would you assume it would be days before help came? That's why they're getting so much blame, things weren't moving as fast as they should have, even bush said that. And how the hell are you going to get out of a flooded city with no boat or any other mode of private or public transportation? Seriously the argument "I would have found a way out" probably wouldn't be what you were saying if you were actually there. Even today, there was a nearby town (something Parish I believe) that went into new orleans because they were out of everything and that's where there only shot of escaping was.

[racthamp]

recently i just had a baby.... after i see the images of many childs on TV almost bring me to tear... this is sad..

[Mr.Answer]

I don't know about you guys, but I would have found a way out of the city after the hurrcane passed once I looked outside and saw what the city looked like knowing that it would probably be days before any help came.

And if the roads and path out of town were impassible, I would have found a way to pass them......


so the roads would be passible then?

[bostonfrontier]

so the roads would be passible then?

I'd make them passible

[lowgear26]

Oh, didn't realize that. I saw him on cnn, not sure if it was a cnn interview or one cnn was airing though.

Jesse just basically said George Bush doesnt care about black people......My question is how Does Jesse Jackson help anyone with comments like that? This was on Larry King Live

[alonzomourning23]

What the hell was the point with this?

About people boarding a bus at the dome:

At the back end of the line, people jammed against police barricades in the rain. Refugees passed out and had to be lifted hand-over-hand overhead to medics. Pets were not allowed on the bus, and when a police officer confiscated a little boy's dog, the child cried until he vomited. "Snowball, Snowball," he cried.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_evacuation_hk1

I mean seriously, I'm assuming it's a small dog (especially with the name snowball). If the dog isn't taking up any space someone else would use, why the hell would you make it even worse on a family and a kid that's been through so much, let alone leaving the dog for dead. The dog had gone this long so it wasn't like it couldn't handle crowds and was attacking people. I don't see the issue with bending the rules in cases like this.

Jesse just basically said George Bush doesnt care about black people......My question is how Does Jesse Jackson help anyone with comments like that? This was on Larry King Live

I've seen him twice on cnn, I've had no real issue with what he's said. All I'm going to comment on is what I've seen or read transcripts of, and I've had no issue with that.

[989boi]

I was in New Orleans on August 26th and 27th. Here is how I remember how it was in New Orleans. On the 26th, I think a lot of people in NO wasn't really sure where the hurricane was going since all it did was kept goin west, even the weatherman on the local news channel wasn't even that sure. Everybody kept praying that maybe it could turn the other way around or somewhere.


When I woke up on saturday morning, I turned on the tv and we was still gettin the same results that it was goin west. All the gas stations was packed like usual. When the officials held their press conferences, it wasn't like they said hey its a mandatory evacuation and everybody get the fuck out. It was more like "hey theres a good chance that it might hit us but maybe not we're not sure but u can evacuate if u want to just in case". The rest of the press conferences was about givin instructions how to evacuate, giving shelter information, and they gonna activate contraflow at 4pm. Only 2 or 3 parishes had mandatory evacuations at that time but not NO yet. I don't remember hearing mandatory evacuation for jefferson parish until I was in Lafayette. I remember hearing from a local reporter that a lot of people didn't really evacuate till the hurricane changed directions.


Getting out of NO wasn't that big of a problem for us since the officials activated the contraflow which worked smoothly when we was on the road. Before evacuating NO, the mood was kinda depressing because it felt like we was bidding our goodbyes to our each other. I evacuated to Lafayette with some relatives. When I was in Lafayette, the hurricane finally started changing directions. I slept through most of Sunday so I don't know what was goin on that day, just that it became a catergory 5 hurricane. Monday, it was a real dark and windy day in Lafayette. After I figure the hurricane was over with. I went to my parents home which is about 80 miles away from Lafayette and 75 miles from New Orleans. I didn't really find out what happen to NO till wednesday when the tv cable started working. All of the local cable channels is out except for one local channel. Its real depressing seeing New Orleans in this shape. Never I could imagine this to happen even though we was taught in school that something like this is going to happen one day. I don't know about the rest of Metairie but all I know is the section I live in is not flooded. I didn't care much about losing my apartment since I just moved in a week before the hurricane hit us. I didn't have much in the apartment to begin with.


If you've been watching the news a lot lately, whenever u see them showing "I-10 and Causeway". You should recognize it easily because they're always showing the exit sign "Causeway BLVD North and Mandeville". My apartment is couple of blocks down on Causeway. Causeway is also the same bridge where hundreds of refugees is camping under away from the hot sun. It seems as if its the one of the place the rescue crew drop some of the refugees that they've rescued off at. Besides the convention center, the causeway has been gettin a lot of air time lately. Mostly because not much of them has been evacuated from that site. I only seen a couple of elderly people gettin evacuate from that site. Unless they took a shortcut from I-10, theres a possibily that the buses from Houston have passed by them everyday because you have to be on I-10 to get to the superdome.


On another topic, there is no communications at all in NO. Don't even bother calling anybody with a 504 number because 95% of the time you wont get through. The only affective way you'll contact somebody is by through text messaging. Everybody that I know of is fine and well. Some of the people I know is not even coming back to New Orleans since they lost everything. Well this is where i'm goin to end it for now. If anybody wants to donate then please give cash to the American Red Cross.

[Noodle Pirate!]

I think when this is all over we will find out that ultimately it was the state's responsibilty to act more agressively toward evacuation. They just did not do enough in time with the information they had to alert the general populace to the real threat. If this had been a nuclear notification of a bomb being dropped, I guarantee they would have gone the extra mile to make sure the town was empty.
After the disaster, it was partly the state and some federal agencies' failure to get organized fast enough to provide relief. This has nothing to do with the president. He can only sign so many papers that release funds and orders to set things in motion. He can't snap his fingers and it becomes magically done. (Although I know how everyone likes to use any excuse to bash him)
The responsibility lies with certain individuals who are in charge of organizing relief efforts.

A relief effort of this size has protocolls and channels it has to follow and something this size has certainly strained the system so much that it slowed it down.
That is why is seems the tsumani was handled better, I seriously doubt they had to use the same ICS system that we do in order to sort things out. For the tsumani, people just used their own initiative to do what they could and it looks like it worked a bit better then our system.
I understand everyone wants someone to blame, but race and income have little to do with it. Its all about logistics and safety. I guarantee that the violence towards rescuers was a major factor in slowing down the relief/rescue effort.
With all the police quitting and noone to secure the safety of rescuers, they have no choice but to stop helping people. It sucks but they dont have to look any further then themselves for the slow response and ill preparation.

If anyone is interested in how state/federal emergency programs are structured and how they function, I suggest you check out the Federal Incident Command System (also known as Incident Management System). This is what the state has to follow and use in order to organize everyone and everything.

I've taken a few courses on it and its an incredible system when it has competant people who know what the hell they are doing in charge of it. You have seen what happens when it does not. Those are the people who are partly to blame.

[bostonfrontier]

I think people like Jesse Jackson need to shut their trap til everyone is out and safe and then we can bring up the issue of race........ STFU til everyone is safe first cause complaining right now when the problem is still going on isn't helping anything

[lowgear26]

I think people like Jesse Jackson need to shut their trap til everyone is out and safe and then we can bring up the issue of race........ STFU til everyone is safe first cause complaining right now when the problem is still going on isn't helping anything

Kanyee West too....he was on MSNBC and him and Mike Myers were doing a scripted thing asking for help....at the End West goes "George Bush hates black people".....I keep saying it but why is this a white vs black thing....it was a friggin hurricane for gods sake....not White people that are killing blacks in New Orleans.