So what do you guys honestly think about pirating?

[Soodmeg]

I want to get some honest opinions about the whole "pirating" thing. What do you guys think? We all know it is illegal but whats your stand point on downloading movies/ mp3/ tv shows/ just about anything from p2p networks and torrents?

They are now dishing out some pretty harsh (in my opinion) punishments when now. I guy in cali got 2 years for having downloaded 1 mp3 2 movies and 1 episode of the simpsons.

In my honest opinion i really dont get this whole "war" on pirates. I just dont see the logic when a rapist/murder/kidnapper/ will only get a couple years in jail and then be released just to commint the same crime 2 or 3 more times but they go buck wild on a 13 year old downloading a 50_cent album.


Discuss please.

[Scorch]

http://www.westerncostume.com/images/flamesuit_med.jpg

If this post survives, i'll post my opinions on it..

[Soodmeg]

Why not post them now?

[GuyWithGun]

I think, more than anything, they're going for the shock value to scare people out of doing it, because everyone knows how easy it is. They want people to be like, "Oh know, I download this and I could be in jail for 2 years! I better not do it." They feel that they need something overtly drastic to counteract how easy it is to do.

[Saucy Jack]

(grabs popcorn and soda and waits to see what happens in the thread)

[2poor]

i dont think anyone gives a fuck about pirating besides the riaa.

[Apossum]

I do it periodically, mostly to get leaked games, or music that i'll never find in a store. I think it's great to get things that are not available through means that support the people who made it-- i.e. DLing Suikoden 2 instead paying out your ass on ebay to some random guy. 9/10 I find myself tracking down complete stuff anyway.

A certain amount of pirating is fine, as long as people continue to buy the product if they like what they hear/see/play.

[kittie]

Before the lock.

[Soodmeg]

I dont understand why everyone is all "waiting to see this thread crash and burn," I honestly want to know different peoples opinions about it. Am i not allowed to post this kinda question here? If so then i am sorry.

[GuyWithGun]

Before the lock.
:lol:

[Apossum]

i don't get it either...i guess people don't have opinions about it and would rather see this thread locked.

[kittie]

Only bad can come from starting a pirating thread.

As for me, I always do. Because I don't care.

[Soodmeg]

I do it periodically, mostly to get leaked games, or music that i'll never find in a store. I think it's great to get things that are not available through means that support the people who made it-- i.e. DLing Suikoden 2 instead paying out your ass on ebay to some random guy. 9/10 I find myself tracking down complete stuff anyway.

A certain amount of pirating is fine, as long as people continue to buy the product if they like what they hear/see/play.

I agree with you, all my fav movies i own on dvd. I really only download things i dont really want or so called "blockerbuster" things that have alot of hype that i know is bad. No reason wasting my money going to see a movie like catwoman. As for music, no about of downloading will ever keep me from shelling out tons of money to see my fav band live from a front row seat.

[Murcielago77]

Im just gonna say, I use P2P and download torrents. And if i do download illegal things, games would never be one of them

[zionoverfire]

I think a butt pirate taking you out would be a great service to us all.

[GuyWithGun]

I think people are expecting it to crash because it's a topic that comes up somewhat frequently, not to mention people might have extremely varying opinions on it.

I posted a partial opinion. I suggest, if you want this thread to live, to post more yourself. Respond or say something new instead of wondering why it might not survive. :)

[Soodmeg]

Only bad can come from starting a pirating thread.

As for me, I always do. Because I don't care.

Like what? As long as we keep it adult i dont see a problem with it. Its not like we are telling people where to or how to get pirated things.

Maybe i am missing something here.

[Apossum]

Only bad can come from starting a pirating thread.

As for me, I always do. Because I don't care.


why? cause people can't discuss without letting their tempers flare?

that would be weak sauce. if it happens, of course.

fuck it, i'm going to bed.

[Oktoberfest]

In my honest opinion i really dont get this whole "war" on pirates. I just dont see the logic when a rapist/murder/kidnapper/ will only get a couple years in jail and then be released just to commint the same crime 2 or 3 more times but they go buck wild on a 13 year old downloading a 50_cent album.

According to government: money > people's lives

[GuyWithGun]

I agree with you, all my fav movies i own on dvd. I really only download things i dont really want or so called "blockerbuster" things that have alot of hype that i know is bad. No reason wasting my money going to see a movie like catwoman. As for music, no about of downloading will ever keep me from shelling out tons of money to see my fav band live from a front row seat.
That's the problem record companies have with downloading. I don't believe they see much money from concerts, but they sure do from selling records.

[guyver2077]

everyone with a computer basicly does something illegal daily so who cares

[Ikohn4ever]

I pirate songs but never whole albums. I find most albums crap as a whole with one or two good songs which I download. Now if it is a band that I like I will buy that album. I will download movie occasionally but I buy a shit load so it balances itself out. I really dont think piracy is that bad as long as it kept on a small scale.

[Soodmeg]

If you think about it, what is the ratio of your bought goods to your downloaded goods. Looking around my room i probably have 100 of thousands of dollars of stuff in my room. Dvds, the cds that i did buy, random crap that i thought was cool. Quickly looking at the stuff on my computer i only have like 200 bucks worth of stuff. If you remember an entire season of the simpsons only cost 40 bucks new and 20 at the most if you look around.


Agreeing with the other poster, one thing i dont get is where is the fairness in making me buy a product that was only cost 50 bucks new (lets say) for like 200 on ebay. None of that money is going to the industary so why dont they crack down on ebay users?

[GuyWithGun]

If you think about it, what is the ratio of your bought goods to your downloaded goods. Looking around my room i probably have 100 of thousands of dollars of stuff in my room. Dvds, the cds that i did buy, random crap that i thought was cool. Quickly looking at the stuff on my computer i only have like 200 bucks worth of stuff. If you remember an entire season of the simpsons only cost 40 bucks new and 20 at the most if you look around.


Agreeing with the other poster, one thing i dont get is where is the fairness in making me buy a product that was only cost 50 bucks new (lets say) for like 200 on ebay. None of that money is going to the industary so why dont they crack down on ebay users?
The reason they don't crack down on eBay users is because you can't buy some titles anymore from the industry, so they have no product that eBay selling is taking money from. That's the reason things are going for $200, because they are rare and the industry doesn't make them anymore.

[Soodmeg]

The reason they don't crack down on eBay users is because you can't buy some titles anymore from the industry, so they have no product that eBay selling is taking money from. That's the reason things are going for $200, because they are rare and the industry doesn't make them anymore.

Thats fine and dandy. But why get all pissy if i download that rare item that the industary doesnt care to make anymore? Thats my question, if you dont care that some guy is making 150 bucks profit on something you made because he sold it on ebay, why care if i just downloaded it. The industary didnt make a dime from either one.

[Hunter55]

I only download programs that i would'nt normally buy (ex. Photoshop; there was no way i would've bought that if i couldn't download it). Now, for Windows, i know i would be forced to buy it, so i buy it and support microsoft. I do the same for music and movies. If i know i won't buy something, or i won't be able to afford it, i download it. If, later on, i decide that i would buy it, or that i could afford it, i buy it.

[GuyWithGun]

Thats fine and dandy. But why get all pissy if i download that rare item that the industary doesnt care to make anymore? Thats my question, if you dont care that some guy is making 150 bucks profit on something you made because he sold it on ebay, why care if i just downloaded it. The industary didnt make a dime from either one.
Ah, ok, I see where you're going.

Ummm, caaause, wait a minute... Ummm, cause that may lead to the bad habit of downloading copyrighted material that may transfer to downloading material that you can buy?

[GuyWithGun]

I don't think I've heard about too many cases of companies suing people for downloading non-available or out of print material. I think their main concerns are for things that can purchased, and especially material that would cut into their profits if not purchased, like brand new material.

[mietha]

Piracy for profit is wrong and should be punished severely. I can't stand all of the "Hong Kong" DVD sets on ebay. It makes me ill. However, the sharing of music, movies, etc over p2p networks and things like that should not be disallowed. If no one is making any money it is EXACTLY the same thing as borrowing a friend's cd or DVD to watch it or listen to it. Last I checked, that didn't get you jail time. If I download something, and I like it, I go buy it. If I don't, I don't. So in this case it only cuts down on the sale of bad media. No wonder Metallica is complaining...

[sblymnlcrymnl]

If it's available to buy, I buy it. If not, anything goes.

[Soodmeg]

One of the problems i find in reguards to buring is that the industary feel that you do not "buy" movies from them. They feel that you pay a one time fee to rent the movie from them. Once i buy a movie i own everything on that disk. And once i own that disk i should be able to do anything the hell i want to with it. If i want to burn it 100000 times and give it to my friends that should be peferctly fine. Why? Because i purchase the disk and everything that comes with it. If they dont like that then they shouldnt make the disk for me to buy. You can compare that to "carpooling" if we are all going to the same place (or want to see this movie) it doesnt make sense for all of us to buy a seprate copy.


Also does anyone remember when they said that having home steros with tape desk would kill the industary becausae people could tape there songs off the radio. They also said that about having vcrs, that people would just tape the movie off tv and it would kill the industary. And last time a checked taping a movie off hbo is still legal...why is that? No one bust into my house and trires to arrest me for taping home alone off encore.

[GuyWithGun]

Piracy for profit is wrong and should be punished severely. I can't stand all of the "Hong Kong" DVD sets on ebay. It makes me ill. However, the sharing of music, movies, etc over p2p networks and things like that should not be disallowed. If no one is making any money it is EXACTLY the same thing as borrowing a friend's cd or DVD to watch it or listen to it. Last I checked, that didn't get you jail time. If I download something, and I like it, I go buy it. If I don't, I don't. So in this case it only cuts down on the sale of bad media. No wonder Metallica is complaining...
Ouch...but I agree. :)

If I download music or such, and I really enjoy it, then I would prefer having the cd to be able to have a better quality track and to be able to take it wherever. I typically use downloading to check out new music, and if I don't like the other tracks then I won't bother with it anymore. A lot of times I just use Amazon for this purpose and their free samples of music.

Like you said, it just helps filter through bad music, and bands that only have one good song going for them.

[Soodmeg]

Piracy for profit is wrong and should be punished severely. I can't stand all of the "Hong Kong" DVD sets on ebay. It makes me ill. However, the sharing of music, movies, etc over p2p networks and things like that should not be disallowed. If no one is making any money it is EXACTLY the same thing as borrowing a friend's cd or DVD to watch it or listen to it. Last I checked, that didn't get you jail time. If I download something, and I like it, I go buy it. If I don't, I don't. So in this case it only cuts down on the sale of bad media. No wonder Metallica is complaining...

Fully agree with you. If i like slipknot and i find a group of others who like slipknot why shouldnt we be allowed to share all of our slipknot media? I also fully agree with the fact that it really only hurts bad media. As you can see (opinions aside) good artist/actors seem to be doing just fine. This only hurts the people who have only 2 or 3 good songs on a 18 track album. What really is hurting them is that they are not good enough to sale out LIVE concerts.

[Demolition Man]

http://dbw.ca.gov/AquaSmart/html/images/pirate.jpg

Now we can officially call this a PIRATING thread. :lol:

[GuyWithGun]

Fully agree with you. If i like slipknot and i find a group of others who like slipknot why shouldnt we be allowed to share all of our slipknot media? I also fully agree with the fact that it really only hurts bad media. As you can see (opinions aside) good artist/actors seem to be doing just fine. This only hurts the people who have only 2 or 3 good songs on a 18 track album. What really is hurting them is that they are not good enough to sale out LIVE concerts.
It's not necessarily the actors or artists that are up in arms about pirating (with obvious exceptions). The record and movie companies that produce the media are the ones losing money. Artists typically get next to nothing for albums sold, and the real way they make money is through concerts. So if someone downloads many songs but still goes to concerts, the artists benefit, but record companies don't.

[Soodmeg]

It's not necessarily the actors or artists that are up in arms about pirating (with obvious exceptions). The record and movie companies that produce the media are the ones losing money. Artists typically get next to nothing for albums sold, and the real way they make money is through concerts. So if someone downloads many songs but still goes to concerts, the artists benefit, but record companies don't.

Good point. See what they never show on t.v. is that the Middle-Man guy is also driving around in a benz wiht 34 inch rims. They act like they themsevles dont stick their sticky hands in the arist pockets. The producers praticaly "legally" rob each artist anyway. I guess i am just sick of the "Man" alwas acting like thet are the ones getting hurt when their entire job is to strip each new artist for as much talent for as long as they can. Plus the very seconds that artist sales decline just a a little they will drop them and go on to the next like a hungary dog.

I am pretty sick of being told that pirate are the down fall of kids when there are literaly TONS of LEGAL SCAMS being preformed everyday. Lets take car insurance, if that is not the biggest rip off in the history of man. I pay them every month so that if my car gets hit they will fix it. So it gets hit and what do they do? Bitch and complain and try every thing they can to not fix my car. Then i wind up paying for most of the damage myself anyway. Biggest crock of crap i have every seen and it happens to tons of people.

[GuyWithGun]

Here's a post about T.V. show piracy I did a while ago:

A few years ago there was a site called Fucinet. It hosted a great deal of excellent cartoons such as Family Guy after it was cancelled and there was no DVD release in sight. They also had shows like Futurama and Space Ghost, when they weren't making new ones, also with no DVD release announced. And for situations like Family Guy, FOX screwed up the scheduling so much on that one it was impossible to see some episodes. But pretty much everyone there was in agreement that if there were dvds of these shows, that they would own them.

On the site, it even said that the intent was not to take money away from the shows, but rather to give people an opportunity to see shows that are impossible to see otherwise. They even had a link to the online petition that helped get the Family Guy dvd moving along.

It was eventually shut down by Turner Broadcasting though, and had to move to an mIRC.

-----

In this example, no one was losing any money. There were no DVDs of any of the shows, and ratings were not being hurt because they were all old episodes or cancelled shows that could not be seen anywhere else and that the stations never showed. It wasn't hurting anyone, and if anything, it was to the benefit of Turner Broadcasting because it helped keep the shows alive.

[MrMaddness]

I used to be a hardcore pirater oh, about 5 years ago. PC Games, DC games, movies, you name it. I was also 16 at the time. Now that I'm 5 years older, I feel what I did, for the most part, was stupid and I write it off as something dumb I did as a teenager.

Now, I buy everything I want, but thanks to this website I get most of the stuff I want for cheap. I have almost 500 dvds, so there's no need to download movies anymore, by the time I finish half of these, everything will be in bargain bins. I only buy certain things the 1st week, mostly box sets that are cheaper that first week, then wait for BB or CC to have 3 for $15 sales. It a lot easier, and theres no worry about the MPAA, or the FBI on my ass.

Music? Well that's a whole different story. Lucky for me, I'm a student majoring in broadcasting that spends most of my days there at the radio station, so there's no problem getting music from there.

[elwood731]

A suggestion, if you really are interested in this topic, is to do some background reading. It should be easy enough to find the court rulings online concerning VCRs and why they are legal now.

[camoor]

Also does anyone remember when they said that having home steros with tape desk would kill the industary becausae people could tape there songs off the radio. They also said that about having vcrs, that people would just tape the movie off tv and it would kill the industary. And last time a checked taping a movie off hbo is still legal...why is that? No one bust into my house and trires to arrest me for taping home alone off encore.
The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman home alone.

- Jack Valenti


http://www.downhillbattle.org/postal/home_taping.jpg

[bostonfrontier]

pirating is ok as long as you don't get caught

[kittie]

I used to be a hardcore pirater oh, about 5 years ago. PC Games, DC games, movies, you name it. I was also 16 at the time. Now that I'm 5 years older, I feel what I did, for the most part, was stupid and I write it off as something dumb I did as a teenager.

Very much the same for me.

I pirated practically every DC game, and thought I'd be in gaming heaven... but, it just doesn't work that way. I don't know why I never wanted to play any of the 100+ games I had. I guess I do have morals. Or something.

[mookiemeister]

I don't like piracy. I think the people who make those product deserves to be paid for their work. Piracy just make product more expensive for buyers.

[GuyWithGun]

I don't like piracy. I think the people who make those product deserves to be paid for their work. Piracy just make product more expensive for buyers.
Well, what about people who buy cds but never go to concerts? Almost none of their money spent on the product is going to the artists who created that product.

[Apossum]

I forgot to mention earlier. there's bigger fish to fry in the world. Just about everyone in the entertainment industry could stand to lose a few bucks.

[GuyWithGun]

I forgot to mention earlier. there's bigger fish to fry in the world. Just about everyone in the entertainment industry could stand to lose a few bucks.
I agree, but I don't think that they would.

[Mr Unoriginal]

I pirate music and PC games and don't really feel morally sad for doing it. I know it's wrong and there are no real excuses (etc: they make too much many anyway) but there are a lot of things I want to hear and a lot of games I want to play and I don't have the money.

[Abdullah2]

- if you care only about yourself: then no problem
-if you think on a global scale but prefer certain companies over others: then you'll only pirate certain things and buy others
- if you think on a global scale and care about all companies: then you won't pirate at all

these don't take into consideration your financial status

[U2K Tha Greate$t]

Well i use to be one of the biggest uploaders on suprnova, when the site was up. I havent done anything since the site went down. I told them over at suprnova that the real reason why the site went down was becuase of all the "new stuff" they was sharing, i told them to stop, but they wouldnt listen to me.

Me, i run my own abandonware site and forum and i only deal with the oldies, some people may view abandonware as illegal too, but i dont. And i think i have the upper hand on that one.

I only have a problem with people sharing new games. I could care less about movies, because i buy all of my movies and music at cheap prices.

Also, i think selling cds for 20 bucks is a crime too, but nobody dont seem to care about that.

Peace.

[Ziv_Zulander]

As long as the pirated material isn't being sold for profit it doesn't bother me.

[Lice]

First let me start by saying, I think its stealing. Plain and simple.

Piracy for profit is wrong and should be punished severely. I can't stand all of the "Hong Kong" DVD sets on ebay. It makes me ill. However, the sharing of music, movies, etc over p2p networks and things like that should not be disallowed. If no one is making any money it is EXACTLY the same thing as borrowing a friend's cd or DVD to watch it or listen to it. Last I checked, that didn't get you jail time. If I download something, and I like it, I go buy it. If I don't, I don't. So in this case it only cuts down on the sale of bad media. No wonder Metallica is complaining...

I can see what you’re saying, BUT sharing a cd between your friends in real life and between Thousands of people is totally different. Between friends, say one in 10 would have to buy it. And when you up-load it, NO one has to buy it besides the one person. SO a band could have poor sales, but everyone loves it and downloads it. These numbers of how many people are listening to it doesn’t translate to anything anyone can see and the band wont get picked up again or who knows what. That’s a random example and can spread into movies games etc.



I love when people complain, “ There’s no more original movies”…. Could it be that if they take a chance, do something totally unique, people will be uneasy about going to see it and download it instead? Though if they make remakes of old movies or a TV series into a film that already has a following they know there going to get back profits. The industry is not loosing creativity; it’s loosing the audience… It’s a double-edged sword that the viewers are inflicting upon themselves.



Do we all know how economy works? Someone makes a product; if you want it you buy it. Hooray. I don’t know what gives you the right to decide, well I can’t afford it so ill steal it. Most the time, be it you steal from a thrift store or bank, you go to jail or some part of the law intervenes. I don’t see anything different between taking products from a store and downloading someone’s media. Just because you’re sitting in the comfort of home, and its conveniently called a file “sharing” program, doesn’t make it right. Its still stealing.



Look it up in the dictionary.



To take (the property of another) without right or permission.



Sounds like what you’re doing when any media is taken without paying for it.



Get a job, save up, support the industries you love…. I don’t get why you would take money from anyone be it they are already financially sound as some are in the industry, or a small game company putting out there first game. The first game of 3 years of hard work and it is all taken away with a couple of clicks. Pretty damn lame if I say so myself…



Come back with any point to prove me wrong, and it will just make you out to be an ignorant thief trying to make an excuse to why they jack media off the net.

[spoo]

I am cool with it for CDs and TV but movies and games I'm not a fan of unless they are 10+ years old.

[MaxBiaggi3]

pirating is ok as long as you don't get caught

Just about anything imagineable (and a few things that aren't) can be considered ok as long as you don't get caught. Unfortunately, the modern electronic age greatly increased the likelihood that you will indeed eventually be caught and forced to pay for your "crimes." :cry:

[U2K Tha Greate$t]

Sharing is good my friend, but sharing new games is wrong if you ask me. I say after 2 years, its cool, maybe 3. Because some games get discontinue for alot of reasons, and after its been 3 or 4 years , people still get mad at someone sharing a game that has been discontinue for 3 or 4 years, and thats not fair.

[rickc25]

Thats fine and dandy. But why get all pissy if i download that rare item that the industary doesnt care to make anymore? Thats my question, if you dont care that some guy is making 150 bucks profit on something you made because he sold it on ebay, why care if i just downloaded it. The industary didnt make a dime from either one.

Companies always like to leave their options open for re-releases, compilations, etc. Look at all the classic games that have been releases on current gen systems (Sonic, Mega Man, Street Fighter, etc) and SNES games that have been released on the GBA. If they ok the downloading of older games it would cut into any profits that they might make in the future off of old games.

[Mr Unoriginal]

Companies always like to leave their options open for re-releases, compilations, etc. Look at all the classic games that have been releases on current gen systems (Sonic, Mega Man, Street Fighter, etc) and SNES games that have been released on the GBA. If they ok the downloading of older games it would cut into any profits that they might make in the future off of old games.

That's a big maybe. It is just as possible that someone is pirating it or emulating it because it is just not available. It is likely that the same people who pirate old NES games are now adults and wouldn't mind throwing down $20 to own them again on the GBA.

[eldad9]

I just dont see the logic when a rapist/murder/kidnapper/ will only get a couple years in jail and then be released just to commint the same crime 2 or 3 more times but they go buck wild on a 13 year old downloading a 50_cent album.Discuss please.

I'm afraid you're just a little bit naive.

Rape and murder hurt individuals. Copyright infringement hurts corporations.

[niceguyshawne]

I don't do it but I don't care if others do.

[DV8]

I used to download alot of music, but there's just way too much crap out today to buy a cd, for one or two songs like I'm sure someone mentioned. I've bought 3 cds in the last few weeks though and enjoy them for the most part. But if I do download an album there's no way I'd pay to buy it even if I liked the group.

I don't download movies and games cause I'm on dialup, but if I had high speed I probably would. Stealing is stealing is stealing.

[evanft]

With me, the only things I pirate are ROMs and music. With ROMs, I don't really see anything wrong at all, as 99% of the games aren't available in any form other than used on eBay or something, so the creators wouldn't be making money if I got the games that way. The games that are available in some form today, however, are almost always overpriced and not worth buying, like the GBA versions of the NES Zelda, Metroid, etc.

With music, I only pirate because I wanna see if I like an album before I buy it, or if I only really like some of the songs on the CD. Most of the music I listen to is underground metal and I can't really get it from MTV or radio, so I have to download it. I always eventually buy the actual CD if I like what I hear, but I usually buy used, as it is considerably cheaper.

[GuyWithGun]

With me, the only things I pirate are ROMs and music. With ROMs, I don't really see anything wrong at all, as 99% of the games aren't available in any form other than used on eBay or something, so the creators wouldn't be making money if I got the games that way. The games that are available in some form today, however, are almost always overpriced and not worth buying, like the GBA versions of the NES Zelda, Metroid, etc.

With music, I only pirate because I wanna see if I like an album before I buy it, or if I only really like some of the songs on the CD. Most of the music I listen to is underground metal and I can't really get it from MTV or radio, so I have to download it. I always eventually buy the actual CD if I like what I hear, but I usually buy used, as it is considerably cheaper.
Actually, you just brought up an interesting point. What about used cds? Record companies aren't getting any money from those, and worse yet, other people are (i.e. stores that buy and sell used merchandise). And instead of getting a product that may not be of highest quality or only in mp3/wav format, they get the actual cd. So why aren't they all pissy about that?

[eldad9]

I'm sorry, I realize this post is a little on the long side, but there is so much silliness here I wanted to try and put a stop to it. This is just stream of consciousness; it's not well organized or even gramatically correct, probably, but here goes:

I think it's great to get things that are not available through means that support the people who made it-- i.e. DLing Suikoden 2 instead paying out your ass on ebay to some random guy.
It's not some random guy; it's the guy that bought the game. If nobody ever bought used games (from "random guys", and "not supporting" the developers) - don't you think it would have a detrimental effect on sales of new products? Hint: A product is worth less new if its resale value is lower.

No reason wasting my money going to see a movie like catwoman.
Any reason wasting your time watching it? If it's worth your time, why not your money?

I will download movie occasionally but I buy a shit load so it balances itself out.
Maybe karma-wise, but if you're caught speeding explaining that you sometimes drive under the speed limit is not a very plausible defense. The idea is that the law is always obeyed, not on average.


one thing i dont get is where is the fairness in making me buy a product that was only cost 50 bucks new (lets say) for like 200 on ebay.
Nobody's making you buy it. Capitalism, remember? A sale is made when a buyer and a seller agree on a price. Buy when you like the price, don't when you don't. But if I sell my stuff at a price you feel is too high, it doesn't grant you permission to do anything you couldn't do had the price been lower.

why get all pissy if i download that rare item that the industary doesnt care to make anymore?
As long as the pirated material isn't being sold for profit it doesn't bother me.
It's their content to sell now, sell at a later date, or never sell. You don't have a right to buy anything; it has to be offered for sale.

I only download programs that i would'nt normally buy (ex. Photoshop; there was no way i would've bought that if i couldn't download it).
Please look into free alternatives. They're getting better every month.

...once i own that disk i should be able to do anything the hell i want to with it. If i want to burn it 100000 times and give it to my friends that should be peferctly fine. Why? Because i purchase the disk and everything that comes with it. If they dont like that then they shouldnt make the disk for me to buy.
Anything? Like make copies and sell them? You know "intellectual property" doesn't work that way. You're advocating releasing content only on DRM formats.

Also does anyone remember when they said that having home steros with tape desk would kill the industary becausae people could tape there songs off the radio. They also said that about having vcrs, that people would just tape the movie off tv and it would kill the industary. And last time a checked taping a movie off hbo is still legal...why is that? No one bust into my house and trires to arrest me for taping home alone off encore.
People who make money in the current scheme of things always try to delay the next scheme. And taping a movie for home use is still legal, but the equipment to do just that was very close to being outlawed... remember the broadcast flag wars? We may still see it return in some form or other.


I pirated practically every DC game, and thought I'd be in gaming heaven... but, it just doesn't work that way. I don't know why I never wanted to play any of the 100+ games I had. I guess I do have morals. Or something.
I'm afraid that has to do with saturation, not morals. Exactly the same thing would have happened if you'd won all these games in the contest Sega promised but never delivered.

Piracy just make product more expensive for buyers.
Economic theory teaches us the availability of a competing product (the pirate version) actually decreases price.

I forgot to mention earlier. there's bigger fish to fry in the world. Just about everyone in the entertainment industry could stand to lose a few bucks.
True but irrelevant. It's like saying we shouldn't worry about tax evaders until all the murderers have been caught.

Just because you’re sitting in the comfort of home, and its conveniently called a file sharing program, doesn’t make it right. Its still stealing.
No, it's not. File sharing may or may not be copyright infringement, but it is never theft, no matter what the music industry would have you believe. Just because you perceive both to be legally and/or morally wrong does not mean they are the same.

Just about anything imagineable (and a few things that aren't) can be considered ok as long as you don't get caught.
That depends - are you speaking practically or morally? Is murder OK if you don't get caught?

the modern electronic age greatly increased the likelihood that you will indeed eventually be caught and forced to pay for your "crimes."
The new age provides many more options; technology can also greatly increase anonymity.

Sharing is good my friend, but sharing new games is wrong if you ask me. I say after 2 years, its cool, maybe 3. Because some games get discontinue for alot of reasons, and after its been 3 or 4 years , people still get mad at someone sharing a game that has been discontinue for 3 or 4 years, and thats not fair.
Unfortunately, my fellow San Diegan, you're in no position to call the shots. Right now copyright in the states are something like 95 years, or author's lifetime+70. During that period, the copyright holder can choose whether or not to offer the work for sale. Again, you have no right to buy any media that's ever been produced. And even what's not available now may be in a few years.


I used to download alot of music, but there's just way too much crap out today to buy a cd, for one or two songs like I'm sure someone mentioned....Stealing is stealing is stealing.
I'm told there are ways to buy individual tracks online; I'm not into music so I couldn't really tell you. And while stealing is stealing is stealing, copyright infringement is copyright infringement is copyright infringement, and stealing is stealing is stealing is not copyright infringement is copyright infringement is copyright infringement.

P.S. camoor - thanks for doing the boston strangler quote this time.



Edit: and some content of my own...

We all know why the RIAA opposes file sharing - because it cuts out the middleman, and makes them unnecessary.

If they really were looking out for the artists, do you think they would have tried pulling off stunts like the "works made for hire" fiasco?

http://archive.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2000/08/28/work_for_hire/print.html

[camoor]

Actually, you just brought up an interesting point. What about used cds? Record companies aren't getting any money from those, and worse yet, other people are (i.e. stores that buy and sell used merchandise). And instead of getting a product that may not be of highest quality or only in mp3/wav format, they get the actual cd. So why aren't they all pissy about that?

They were back in the 1990s, and had begun to sue used CD store chains, but then the used CD market virtually collapsed in the wake of napster.

The RIAA are a bunch of lawyer scumbags who convince the record labels that it's worth their time to anger their primary customer base in a futile search for imaginary profits that will NEVER come their way (people like to "try before buy", that's why they give out samples in the supermarket. God damn the record label execs are idiots, just bigger suckers for the RIAA lawyer leaches)

Because of the gestapo actions of the RIAA (suing 12 year-old girls, using extortion on grandparents who don't even know how to use the internet), the next time I buy a new CD from an RIAA-sponsored label it will be a cold day in Hell. I urge you all to boycott the RIAA and stand up for consumer rights against the cold specter of complete corporate control through draconian copyright law.

[Soodmeg]

Eldad9 had alot of good points but you skipped over some thing i would love to have your opinion on. What do you think of the middle man who cash in on 99% of the artist work? What do you think of the guys who use ebay and other methods to turn a huge profit?

There are a ton of other questions i would like to hear your opinion on but i have to go to work. I am not saying this to bash you in anyway i would truely like to hear what you have to say on this topic.

[opportunity777]

Depends on the circumstances.

[eldad9]

What do you think of the middle man who cash in on 99% of the artist work?
I don't see how the market can support him for a lot longer. I have no problem with people to trying to make money any (moral) way they can, but as far as I'm concerned the music companies have crossed the line a long, long time ago and they just keep getting worse.

What do you think of the guys who use ebay and other methods to turn a huge profit?
Again, I see no problem with making money, as long as their methods are moral. Are you only upset with people who make "too much"?

It sounds like the same argument as "gamestop is evil because they pay too little and charge too much for used games". If you think their trade-in prices are too low, don't sell them your games. If you think their used game prices are too high, don't buy from them. If you think you can run a business that makes money while consistently pays more and charges less, by all means, go for it.

There are a ton of other questions i would like to hear your opinion on but i have to go to work.
That's fine. I plan to still be smart tomorrow.

[Xevious]

I havent read all the post of this thread (yet) but here are my thoughts:

Personally, I think Pirating sucks. I am an artist though and I think that many artists (whether or not they are musicians, filmmakers, game makers, etc) are getting screwed ultimately getting screwed over by priracy. It may be an indirect way or a direct way, but they are getting screwed over

[eldad9]

Personally, I think Pirating sucks. I am an artist though and I think that many artists (whether or not they are musicians, filmmakers, game makers, etc) are getting screwed ultimately getting screwed over by priracy.

What kind of artist are you?

If you're a musician, are you affiliated with the RIAA? What do you think of their actions?

When you refer to piracy, what exactly do you mean? Any anauthorized sharing/copying? Trying to pass off unoriginal media as original? Please be more specific. I'm sure you don't mean murder, rape, kidnapping and theft - you know, actual piracy.

[Drtyazn]

The issue I have had in the past is having my whole music collection stolen. Since I purchased hundreds of cd's I own the right to have those songs. Then if I want to replace then I don't get anything for free from the music labels or artists. I have to buy them all over again even though I paid for them once already. Before napster got ratted out, I "recovered" a lot of the songs I had lost. I also got a few that I didn't purchase, but I'm not going to buy a whole album for one song. Now things have changed enough so buying all the songs you actually want isn't a problem. I think piracy is stealing, but how can I feel bad when there's no protection for those who play by the rules?

[Mr Unoriginal]

The issue I have had in the past is having my whole music collection stolen. Since I purchased hundreds of cd's I own the right to have those songs. Then if I want to replace then I don't get anything for free from the music labels or artists. I have to buy them all over again even though I paid for them once already. Before napster got ratted out, I "recovered" a lot of the songs I had lost. I also got a few that I didn't purchase, but I'm not going to buy a whole album for one song. Now things have changed enough so buying all the songs you actually want isn't a problem. I think piracy is stealing, but how can I feel bad when there's no protection for those who play by the rules?

Um you do know you are totally talking out of your ass right? Just checking.

[Jeoff]

The people working for the RIAA and the MPAA are seriously misguided anybody can see that. But they have to do their jobs and we have to deal with them.

I think it should be illegal to sue somebody for illegal filesharing without a written warning and a grace period to stop the infringing action. I don't know how long would be fair. Two weeks to a month maybe? Then if the same people were caught infringing a second time or if they did not stop after the grace period they should DEFINITELY be fined. There are a lot of people who don't know what's legal and illegal to share (especially kids). It's not fair to fine people without asking questions first.

Jail time though...that's too far. Not unless they're trying to actually sell the downloads.

[Drtyazn]

Um you do know you are totally talking out of your ass right? Just checking.

Did you even read what I wrote? If you're interested in "Ass talking" you should create you're own thread.

[Mr Unoriginal]

Did you even read what I wrote? If you're interested in "Ass talking" you should create you're own thread.

Yes I did and practically everything you wrote was totally wrong. The only true statement there was "I got some CDs stolen." You don't have a right to purchased music for the rest of your life.

[Drtyazn]

Yes I did and practically everything you wrote was totally wrong. The only true statement there was "I got some CDs stolen." You don't have a right to purchased music for the rest of your life.

Do you ever burn cd's of music you have purchased?

[Mr Unoriginal]

Do you ever burn cd's of music you have purchased?

Yes but that doesn't make it legal. You can try to justify it all you want, but if you no longer own the CD, you can't have a copy of it, digital or otherwise.

[Soodmeg]

Guys, guys seriouly lets keep this cool. I dont want this to turn into another brain dead i hate you you hate me topic. eldad9 i am still at work so i will hit you would with those question either extremely late at night (5am) or tomorrow before i go to work again.


Mr. and Dryrtan please chill out.

[sisco1986]

Artists get shafted on money anyways, record companies make millions for doing almost nothing while the artists do all the work and get squat. I'd rather support a independent artist (and I constantly do) than a label artist just for that fact alone.

I'm kinda cought in the middle with music; in one sense, I do want to support the artist but at the same time i'm supporting the Label more than I'm supporting the actual artist. So i'm torn, deprive a Artist of putting food on there tables or give them 14 bucks, and let the artist get pennies while the label keeps most of the rest. So on music my answer is :-?

[cgpwns]

I believe that I have the right to back up my movies and cds beacuse they always seem to get scratched, and I'm sure as hell not buying into disc skins.

I also download MP3s that are for free (non-commercial ones), for example the ones adult swim has available for you to download (gotta love MC P Pants and Sir Loin!) and my favorite video game remixes (which the creators are probably violating copyright laws by using music from video games and mixing them). I also put music from my CDs onto my MP3 player which probably violates copyrights.

Oh, I install purchased software on both my computers, that violates the agreement on many of them so that might be considered pirating.

I do not agree with the pirating of movies and games, unless it is not available in this country (ie. Japanese Video Games). But that is a very gray area because things like movies and anime may be liscensed to be released in America ( Wierd Video Games aren't as likely though).

Also as some of you know I do work at a theater and I do get a large reward if I turn anyone in that is pirating a movie (including a cell phone with a camera), and I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Drtyazn]

Guys, guys seriouly lets keep this cool. I dont want this to turn into another brain dead i hate you you hate me topic. eldad9 i am still at work so i will hit you would with those question either extremely late at night (5am) or tomorrow before i go to work again.


Mr. and Dryrtan please chill out.

I'm cool hand Luke... just because we don't agree doesn't mean a thing. It is interesting to see someone else's point of view. At least I paid for 99% of the music I have at one point or another. How many people can say that?

[eldad9]

I think piracy is stealing

I think jaywalking is embezzlement.

[eldad9]

You don't have a right to purchased music for the rest of your life.

You're basicaly arguing that when you buy a CD, you get a limited license (that happens to be invisible) to use the content for the lifetime of the physical media?

So if I buy a CD, rip it into my iPod and backup, then toss out (or lose, or scratch) the CD, I should no longer be allowed to play it?

[Mr Unoriginal]

You're basicaly arguing that when you buy a CD, you get a limited license (that happens to be invisible) to use the content for the lifetime of the physical media?

So if I buy a CD, rip it into my iPod and backup, then toss out (or lose, or scratch) the CD, I should no longer be allowed to play it?

Technically/legally, I'm not sure if you are allowed to. I'd be curious to see a ruling either way. I can't imagine the law states that as long as you owned a piece of media at one time in your life, you have unlimited access to any forms of that media in the future for free.

[eldad9]

I believe that I have the right to back up my movies and cds beacuse they always seem to get scratched

I'm afraid you're wrong. The DMCA (passed unanimously!) makes it illegal for you to create backups of DVDs. CDs are OK.

See, for example, http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1345 (or just do a search on DMCA +DVD)

[Drtyazn]

Technically/legally, I'm not sure if you are allowed to. I'd be curious to see a ruling either way. I can't imagine the law states that as long as you owned a piece of media at one time in your life, you have unlimited access to any forms of that media in the future for free.

As far as music is concerned, it seems you should have a certain amount of access to the exact copy of what you purchased.

[Xevious]

What kind of artist are you?

If you're a musician, are you affiliated with the RIAA? What do you think of their actions?

When you refer to piracy, what exactly do you mean? Any anauthorized sharing/copying? Trying to pass off unoriginal media as original? Please be more specific. I'm sure you don't mean murder, rape, kidnapping and theft - you know, actual piracy.

I am 3D artist. I am working a short film right now. I wont be making any money with this short film but thats ok. Its the future I'm thinking of.

You see, I worked my ass off on this short film and I'm sure I will be working my ass off on future projects. I think about those flea markets and sides streets in city where those dudes sell bootleg DVDs and I think about all those hard working people that worked their asses off on those movies and shit and they never get their cut of the pie.

I have no affliation with any organization but I know that I worked really hard at my art and I deserve my fair share of the profit (when and if I get it). I am very sensitive for all hardworking artists regardless of what they do; I think they deserve their fair cut too.

When all of my friends got into the Napster craze a few years back, I stayed away from all that. My gut feeling was that the whole Napster thing was wrong. I heard all the opinions but I still stand by what my conscience tells me. I will respect your opinion though even if you disagree with me.

-------------------------------

Let me break down the cuts that a movie makes. If the independant film you produce costs 10 million dollars to make; the Distributor takes 50% of that out of the profits. After that, there are taxes, ancillary cost that I wont go into. So in order to break even..your 10 million-dollar non-Major Studio backed movie has to make 25-27 Million dollars. Thats only to break even! And you have to figure that most movies released in the theater fail. So the business is a real bitch!


I release that I am over-simplifing things. I have my information from the book "The Complete Independant Movie Marketing Handbook" by Mark Steven Bosko; Its a good read if you really want to find out about the independant film business.

[Graystone]

It's wrong but yes I do do it. However pirate means something completely different to me. A pirate is the guy on the street corner wearing a trench coat selling movies for $5. As were if there is a song I heard on the radio and liked. I will download it. If they are playing it on the radio and me downloading it to hear it How is that really different. Also I might also download some other songs from that person. If I like what I hear I go and buy that cd. P2P downloading is only a problem because people use it for illegal profit.

[Lice]

It's wrong but yes I do do it. However pirate means something completely different to me. A pirate is the guy on the street corner wearing a trench coat selling movies for $5. As were if there is a song I heard on the radio and liked. I will download it. If they are playing it on the radio and me downloading it to hear it How is that really different. Also I might also download some other songs from that person. If I like what I hear I go and buy that cd. P2P downloading is only a problem because people use it for illegal profit.


SoooooooI can go steal a pair of shoes. Wear them for the life of the shoe... think about if it was worth it and if i should go back to the store and pay for them...But why? Wouldnt most just throw them out and steal another pair of free shoes.... The cycle continues...

Doesnt work like that with anything else. Once you listen or watch an entire dvd, generally you are not going to pay for it being you have just got everyhting for free. Testing it is not watching the whole film or appraising it for its value to see if its worth YOUR money...... So i dont see how that point can be brought up so many times.

[eldad9]

You see, I worked my ass off on this short film and I'm sure I will be working my ass off on future projects. I think about those flea markets and sides streets in city where those dudes sell bootleg DVDs and I think about all those hard working people that worked their asses off on those movies and shit and they never get their cut of the pie.
I don't think anybody here will argue that unauthorized selling of somebody else's content is moral or that it should be legal.

The problem is the criminalization of noncommercial copyright infringement, combined with the incredibly extended copyright periods.

Let me break down the cuts that a movie makes. If the independant film you produce costs 10 million dollars to make; the Distributor takes 50% of that out of the profits.

The electronic age lets business sell directly to customers for almost free; why cling to an outdated business model?

[eldad9]

P2P downloading is only a problem because people use it for illegal profit.

Probably a lot less than you think.

For the music companies, P2P is a problem because it exposes people to non-RIAA music.

[eldad9]

SoooooooI can go steal a pair of shoes. Wear them for the life of the shoe... think about if it was worth it and if i should go back to the store and pay for them...But why? Wouldnt most just throw them out and steal another pair of free shoes.... The cycle continues...

Again: Copyright infringement is not theft. How many more times do I have to explain this?

If you steal a pair of shoes, somebody's out a pair of shoes.

[eldad9]

It looks like most, if not all of you, could benefit from reading this book:

Free Culture by Lawrence Lessig
How Big Media Uses Technology and the Law to Lock Down Culture and Control Creativity

You can buy it online, or you could even be an evil pirate and steal it from the author's web site as PDF, HTML, plain text, e-book, you name it, even MP3 (though the quality of the readers is varied).

http://www.free-culture.cc/

I promise you'll be amazed.

Compare that with how the RIAA would like you to view the world:

http://www.netsmartzkids.org/rsi/media/rsi/Digital_Ethics_Web_Part_1.wmv
http://www.netsmartzkids.org/rsi/media/rsi/Digital_Ethics_Web_Part_2.wmv
http://www.netsmartzkids.org/rsi/media/rsi/Digital_Ethics_Web_Part_3.wmv
http://www.netsmartzkids.org/rsi/media/rsi/Digital_Ethics_Web_Part_4.wmv

[cgpwns]

I'm afraid you're wrong. The DMCA (passed unanimously!) makes it illegal for you to create backups of DVDs. CDs are OK.

See, for example, http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1345 (or just do a search on DMCA +DVD)

"DVD Burners do not Violate the DMCA (Score: 1)
by JimCYL on Monday, February 23 @ 17:32:09 EST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://cyberdivide.blogspot.com
Actually, I'd be inclined to suggest that the use of a DVD-R to make a backup copy of a DVD is not a DMCA violation. The DMCA outlaws the circumvention of a technological access control, in this case, cracking CSS.

When you burn a DVD, you're copying the CSS along with the digital video. The goal of the anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA is to prevent the widespread distribution of media on the internet. A DVD burner that copies the disc with the CSS intact doesn't allow that."

[Soodmeg]

Like i said before i openly admit...when i download a movie or music (i dont ever download games because of the virus risk) its not to listen to it and go buy it. I download stuff that i know i wont like but want to see anyway...things like the catwoman movie or that open water.

And yes this is differnt from stealing a pair of shoes. This is way its called pirating and not just called stealing.


But anything that is truely "good" always seems to find a way of selling anyway. Last time a checked music artist are still going platinum. Now i do have to agree that the movie industary (not dvds but box office) as taken a huge hit. But you know why that is? BECAUSE MOST MOVIES BLOW BALLS.

I just think we are at the point were consumer are not willing to just give out money from craptacular quality just because it from holloywood. I am an extreme movie buff and my friends and I go see movies every weekend (kinda of our tradition) and i will say that 90% of the movies i have seen in the late couple years is not worth the paper they are printed on.

The best quality movies still seem to be doing well though, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars (plot holes aside) damn near anything with Johnny Depp. I just think the consumers are just not willing to pay to see movies like Catwoman, The dukes of hazzard, The forty year old virgin.

Holloywood stop trying to make good movies 10 years ago, now just becuase its bad does it mean i should download it? Most likely no...but i just dont care. I am just kinda of sick of holloywood trying to push over these crap 2 dollar movies and being surprised that no one wants to pay to see them.

Compare this to the car industary as of late. They are made that tons of americans (i.e kids) are getting rice cars but they continue to make craptacular american cars.

[eldad9]

"DVD Burners do not Violate the DMCA (Score: 1)
by JimCYL on Monday, February 23 @ 17:32:09 EST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://cyberdivide.blogspot.com
Actually, I'd be inclined to suggest that the use of a DVD-R to make a backup copy of a DVD is not a DMCA violation. The DMCA outlaws the circumvention of a technological access control, in this case, cracking CSS.

When you burn a DVD, you're copying the CSS along with the digital video. The goal of the anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA is to prevent the widespread distribution of media on the internet. A DVD burner that copies the disc with the CSS intact doesn't allow that."

Good point. So:

Creating a dual-layer (expensive) copy of a dual-layer disc is legal, and
creating a single-layer copy of a single-layer disc is legal, but
creating a single-layer copy of a dual-layer disc is illegal.

Not to mention that viewing DVDs set to other regions or creating a copy with a different region code or with macrovision disabled (so it can be copied to VHS and given to your kid who sometimes breaks things) is illegal.

[Brak]

I'm against selling pirated stuff.

[eldad9]

I download stuff that i know i wont like but want to see anyway...
If you know you won't like it, why spend your time on it?

And yes this is differnt from stealing a pair of shoes. This is way its called pirating and not just called stealing.
Neither "pirating" nor "stealing" are legal terms. There's theft, and there's copyright infringement.

I just think we are at the point were consumer are not willing to just give out money from craptacular quality just because it from holloywood. I am an extreme movie buff and my friends and I go see movies every weekend (kinda of our tradition) and i will say that 90% of the movies i have seen in the late couple years is not worth the paper they are printed on.
Again: if you feel the product is worth the asking price, go ahead. If not, it doesn't give you the right to infringe. I won't argue morality; you know what you are. But this is exactly what gives big media the excuse to pass new laws and bully technology companies into crippling products with DRM.

And by the way, movies aren't really printed on paper.

[Genocidal]

I'm against selling pirated stuff.

I share similar sentiments, but I'm also against the pirating of current generation games, most of which can still be had fairly easily new. Go ahead and flame me if you want, but it won't change my outlook. I will have to say though that through CAG I've been buying a lot more older gen games than I did before, although I still DL most of them so I don't mess up my copy.

[Soodmeg]

...Yeah i know movies are not printed on paper.... its just a saying. Anyway there are two differnt things going on here for me. Is it worth my time, and is it worth my MONEY. Now everyone knows money rules all no matter what. So whenever say i download stuff i know i wont like it really me saying i download stuff that i dont feel is worth my money not my time.

Like i said i buy dvds all the time but only the ones that i feel are worth my time and money. Is catwoman worth my time? If i watch it with friends that are going to make fun of it with me then yes. Is catwoman worth my money hell fucking no. Thus in my brain it tells me to download.

Now is this right? Nope. But like i said before i just dont care about anyone who is invovled in the movies biz in that fanshion. Actors? Dont care. Producers? Dont care. Directors? Dont care. The only people i think about when downloaing things are the cameraman or the techs who hang lights or the SE guys. But they get paid no matter what.


But like i said before as a whole good quality products sell no matter what. Its really only craptacular music/movies (i wont touch games thats a differnt deal) that get hurt. So my final statement is to make better quality stuff if you want it to sell.


Also on movies I cant say is this movie worth my money, because you never know what movies are about these days. The trailers show a movie to be the greatest horror movie on the planet and then it turns out to be some crap about a utopian society ( I AM LOOKING AT YOU THE VILLAGE WORST MOVIE EVER) but again does that give me the right to just download it? No. All i am saying is that good quality products movies/games/music always finds a way to sell millions no matter if its someone just starting out or a veteran director. So i guess if you dont want people downloading your stuff make it so good that people will buy it out of respect like so many people already do.

Also having it get download could be a advantage if you know how to play it right. Even though i cant stand rap check out 50_cent. Before his first album dropped i remember everyone had burned 50_cent cds full of 30 or more tracks. This gave him so much exposure that his first album was an instant seller. If you are smart enough you can find a way to take advantage of something like this especially if you are new to any of the media outlets.

Just starting out in the music biz? Make a demo put in on a P2P boom you now have over 10000 fans wondering who you are and what you are about.

Just starting out in the movies as an director? Make a short film and put in on a P2P. Boom over night everyone is talking about the funniest thing on the internet.

[bmsdaddy]

I get real mad when if I shell out 40-50 bucks for a new PC game only to find out it was released in an incomplete state! Same goes for console games with bad controls, choppy graphics, or any other problem that should have been fixed before release. Where is the industry outrage at that? Most stores won't let you return them after you open it. Give me a game that is copy-proof but guarantee my satisfaction for at least 24-48 hours so I can return it if it sucks!

[Soodmeg]

I get real mad when if I shell out 40-50 bucks for a new PC game only to find out it was released in an incomplete state! Same goes for console games with bad controls, choppy graphics, or any other problem that should have been fixed before release. Where is the industry outrage at that? Most stores won't let you return them after you open it. Give me a game that is copy-proof but guarantee my satisfaction for at least 24-48 hours so I can return it if it sucks!

He has a point. Alot of people are so busy trying to protect the industary that they forget about the consumers. Just like with law enforcement we worry so much about the bad guys rights and if they have been mistreated we forget that he just robbed a store at gun point.

Since you can only test a product AFTER you buy it you can never be sure if its worth your time or money. They dont make demos for every game that comes out. I guess you could try to trick your friends into buying it but i doubt that will work more than once.

So if you dont want me to download this game at least make it so i can return it and get my MONEY back and not store credit or whatever stupid ass thing they try to give you.

[eldad9]

He has a point. Alot of people are so busy trying to protect the industary that they forget about the consumers. Just like with law enforcement we worry so much about the bad guys rights and if they have been mistreated we forget that he just robbed a store at gun point.

Since you can only test a product AFTER you buy it you can never be sure if its worth your time or money. They dont make demos for every game that comes out. I guess you could try to trick your friends into buying it but i doubt that will work more than once.

So if you dont want me to download this game at least make it so i can return it and get my MONEY back and not store credit or whatever stupid ass thing they try to give you.

You have to be worried about the "bad guy"'s rights. Who's going to tell the good guys from bad guys without due process? The police? It's amazing some people still don't get this. I'm sorry, this is not a personal attack; I know you're not the only one.

Now, if you download games just to test whether they're good enough to pay for, delete them pretty soon if they're not, and pay if they are, I have no moral problem with it. It's still illegal, though.

I know a person with a huge GBA collection - and the reason he spends so much on GBA games is that he can try them all before paying to see if he's into them. For most handheld games, 5-10 minutes are enough. So he never paid for a bad game, but has a huge collection of GBA titles.

At the other end of the spectrum you have PC titles like that racing game, Big Rigs, that are shipped with a tiny bug - the other truck you're racing against, well, doesn't do any moving. The product is obviously so defective it's unusable. I'd love to know how many people managed to return it, how many were denied, and how many didn't even try because they either thought they were doing something wrong or just knew that it's impossible to return opened games.

I returned a title exactly once in my life; it was a sega RPG, and it had a bug that replaced your saved character with a level 5 NPC you met early in the game. There was no fix, so I returned it and got my money back, a little over a month after buying it. I'd get my money back from the company if the store hadn't accepted the return.

But for the most part, you can get a sense of how good/bad the game is by checking reviews, so there's really no excuse.

[Soodmeg]

Dude you misunderstand what i meant about good guys bad guys. My entire family are cops, i come from a extremely long line of peoples officers. Its you who doesnt get it. My familly gets sued all the time (though no one has ever won one) because my parents are both what they call brute cops. As in they dont take shit from anyone no matter who it is. My was on the board for a while after punching a guy in the face, when the guy was trying to shoot someone else.

This is want i am talking about good guy bad guy. So who is right there? My father could have spent the extra 30 seconds to do the police "takedown" move in which my father figured the guy would have gotten off 2 shots or he could have just punched him in the face taking him down instantly.


Anyway enough on that.


On to the topic, yeah again i dont ever claim that its right. So i am not "making excusses" what i am saying is that people fail to realize just how much legal stealing goes on in that industary. Which one is worse....an agent taking a 80% cut for no reason or me downloading the album.

I support artist..i could give a rats ass about middle men and their EXTREMELY shady ways. No one can deny how shady middle men are in that business. So if i like someone and i want to pay them for their hard work i will go see them live, like someone said before if i see them live it directly benifits them.

I cant say much about video games because i dont download video games because most of the time you only get half the game. No multiplayer or it doesnt install right or it could be a virus.

Movies..any movie that doesnt seem worth my money i will download...the ones that do i will go to see them in the theater and then buy on dvd.

Like i said i feel that most people who say pirating is bad are failing to look at how much legal stealing is going on in the industary. They fail to see that there are most likely MILLIONS of artist who had the talent to make it but got screwed over by and agent.

Take TLC....MC. Hammer... (only ones i can think of off the top of my head) who even though they sold Millions of records that wound up bankrupt because of the angent taking 90% of their cut. And let think back....did the agent have to give that money back? No...did he go to jail? Ummmm No. Basicaly he just robbed them and walked away scott free. That goes on all the time but you dont see it because it is behind close doors.

So i cant honestly feel all sad and gloomy for downloading a cd and taking what the .05 cent away from the artist when the middle man take god damn 90% of what they make.

Maybe you should talk to the middle men and ask them why they take so much then come talk to me about stealing money away from the artist.



EDIT: After rereading what i wrote it seems like i am yelling....if i come across that way it was not my intent.

[eldad9]

I won't even touch the police brutality issue...

On to the topic, yeah again i dont ever claim that its right. So i am not "making excusses" what i am saying is that people fail to realize just how much legal stealing goes on in that industary. Which one is worse....an agent taking a 80% cut for no reason or me downloading the album.

"Legal stealing"? There's a contradiction it terms. If there's no reason for an agent to take 80% (or whatever the right figure is) why did the artist agree to it? If both sides entered an agreement what's your problem? If you feel you can do a better job as an agent for half the cut, go ahead. And what they're doing is still legal and moral - unlike downloading instead of buying (not as a means of previewing).

i could give a rats ass about middle men and their EXTREMELY shady ways. No one can deny how shady middle men are in that business. So if i like someone and i want to pay them for their hard work i will go see them live, like someone said before if i see them live it directly benifits them.
That's fine; but you still don't get to copy the product if you don't like the people involved. Look at me; I don't like microsoft (because of what they're doing to the software industry; this isn't the place to discuss it) so I just... don't buy an xbox. If I had to, I'd make sure it was a used one. Knowing what they do with my money doesn't give me a right to the content for free.

I cant say much about video games because i dont download video games because most of the time you only get half the game. No multiplayer or it doesnt install right or it could be a virus.
True for PC games, not for console/handheld games.

Movies..any movie that doesnt seem worth my money i will download...the ones that do i will go to see them in the theater and then buy on dvd.
It comes down to the same point: you feel you have a moral right to use content without paying.

Like i said i feel that most people who say pirating is bad are failing to look at how much legal stealing is going on in the industary. They fail to see that there are most likely MILLIONS of artist who had the talent to make it but got screwed over by and agent. ... Maybe you should talk to the middle men and ask them why they take so much then come talk to me about stealing money away from the artist.


Again: legal stealing? it still doesn't make sense. If so many agents are doing actual stealing, why don't more of them get sued?

[Soodmeg]

Come on buddy...please dont sit here and say Legal stealing..whats that? One example car insurance...as a matter of fact any damn insurance.

Police brutality...thats makes me laugh..if you dont know or not a cop yourself you dont know jack shit about anything about the law. Because you dont know what police have to deal with every second of the day. Beating someone for no reason is harsh but ALOT of people bring that shit upon themself because they were brought up to think "police are always out to get me, police are the worst people on earth, if the police come i have a right to be an absolute dumb fuck to them and make a simple task the hardest thing on the planet" so then they do the most retarded ass things. There is no use explaining it to you or anyone else. I suggestion is to go to your local police station and see if you can ride around with them for a week, then after you get spit on, cussed out, shot at, you will see why cops seem to be pissed off all the time.


Anyway i didnt say i had a moral right to do anything..you keep saying that. And again jesus christ man you seem to think that everyone on the planet is out to be your friend and is all lovely duvy. Do you not think that an agent can trick or pressure a young artist who doesnt know what to do into signing a contract that will give him a 90% pay cut?

Dont assume that the entire world is honest....those people are out to get dollars and dollars only (of course not all of them) and they will do anything to get it.

Anyway... this has been fun but has not shed any new light on the subject. Which was my intent in the first place. So good talking to you and i guess we are done here.

Take it easy.

[Scorch]

I cant say much about video games because i dont download video games because most of the time you only get half the game. No multiplayer or it doesnt install right or it could be a virus.

Sounds like someone's still using Kazaa.. hint: Don't download a 600kb file titled "Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.exe".

[Soodmeg]

Sounds like someone's still using Kazaa..

Nope i just spytorrent....(dont know if i can even say that) but i just dont like downloading games. Dont know why its just dont.

[Scorch]

Nope i just spytorrent....(dont know if i can even say that) but i just dont like downloading games. Dont know why its just dont.

I never said I was for it. Quite contrary, I know a few guys that work in the business and I hate people that download games. PC games, anyway, I don't really see anything wrong with getting old gameboy/NES/SNES/Genesis games.

[eldad9]

Anyway i didnt say i had a moral right to do anything..you keep saying that. And again jesus christ man you seem to think that everyone on the planet is out to be your friend and is all lovely duvy. Do you not think that an agent can trick or pressure a young artist who doesnt know what to do into signing a contract that will give him a 90% pay cut?
I don't claim that everybody's friendly, just that legal contracts are legal. Maybe an artist was pressured, maybe not; the point is the contract's signed. Now, if there was fraud involved, that's another story.

[evanft]

If a movie or album sucks, those who made it don't deserve to make money on it.

Example: The people behind Stealth and Ashlee Simpson.

[MrMaddness]

Take TLC....MC. Hammer... (only ones i can think of off the top of my head) who even though they sold Millions of records that wound up bankrupt because of the angent taking 90% of their cut. And let think back....did the agent have to give that money back? No...did he go to jail? Ummmm No. Basicaly he just robbed them and walked away scott free. That goes on all the time but you dont see it because it is behind close doors.




Not true, the agent makes practically nothing. You know who makes all the money? Record companies. I did a report once (I wish i still had it) on the record industry, and the RIAA.

Right now, everyone thinks the music industry is in bad shape because that's what the RIAA tells us. The RIAA is composed of what USED to be 5 major companies, but now is 4: EMI, Sony-BMG(These guys used to be separate), Universal Music, and Warner.

What many people DON'T know, is that all those other labels you guys know of, Def Jam, Island, Reprise, Maverick, Geffen, Motown, Columbia, Epic...et cetera are owned by these 4 "Big-Boys"

What the RIAA neglects to tell you, is that they could give two shits about the independant labels. Independant music sales are up. There are a lot of GOOD, INDEPENDANT labels out there and that's who fans are supporting at this point.

http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/tree.asp

Check that out.

Screw the RIAA.

[crazytalkx]

I am proud to say I steal music and only music!

[alongx]

I think that my Nintendog is an awesome pirate, what with his new Pirate Hat.

[smalien1]

I buy indie rock and steal big names/older stuff/classical/stuff for movie soundtracks for video classes.

[trytej]

I pirate a lot of stuff. Still buy movies and some cds. Its fine. The artist still makes a lot of money.