WTF Microsoft? Seriously, WTF?

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I can't help but be perpetually disappointed with the 360 launch info. E3? A tease. Somewhere in between that and the TGS? Pricing info for hardware. TGS? Release date. X05? Nothing. The last "big" show before launch and the one that's Xbox exclusive was, in many gamer's minds, supposed to clear up all doubt, cut things in stone, allow them to plan purchases, see at least mostly completed builds or at least complete levels of games in the launch window. We know all about the sizzle of what's in the works but we needed the steak to go with it.

The "release information" press announcement was an insult to any hardcore gamer. What was news? New games? Who cares! We know there is going to be another Splinter Cell, EA will port more shit and Too Human was coming! No surprises here.

Meanwhile while we all suspect $59.99 third party games, nothing on pricing of these titles have been confirmed by publishers. That's just ridiculous. I'm not even going to get into MS shafting early adapters and third parties by placing an embargo on accesories and controllers for 12-18 months. However the most important thing?

What am I going to be able to buy with my insane amount of store credit? You know I hate to be one of those "gotta have it now" gamers but launch "window" titles don't appeal to me. I want it on day one or I'll waith until next year. Reminds me of how when XBL launched and Unreal came out 5 days after the service launched. WTF is that?

Likewise WTF difference is it going to make for a game like PGR 3 or PDO to have an extra 3-4 weeks of development time? Seriously, how much more polished can you make a product that's been in development for two years with a few hundred more man hours when probably hundreds of thousands went into what is done to date?

The only excuse I can accept is that MS is truly behind in certifying and getting games to "go gold" as they don't have the staff necessary to do 25 launch window titles on the 360 side yet. Otherwise anything else is just a cop out.

When I think back to launches, all the launches I've seen, it was Sega that did it best with the Dreamcast. I don't think any company had a longer period of date, price and what will be available for hype in the history of the business. We knew a minimum of 5 months before 9.9.99 exactly what to expect which made it that much harder.

Now the exact opposite is true. We don't know enough to be excited this "massive" slate of pseudo launch titles and the longer this goes the more the six titles I want to get appears likely to shrink to 5, 4 and possibly even 3 on launch day. While no Jaguar launch the 360 launch is no Dreamcast.

[shipwreck]

Apparently there was a GameSpot article that had the following info:

"GameSpot asked David Reid, director of platform marketing for Xbox, what the exact 360 launch lineup is. He said that "there will be 15 to 20 Xbox 360 titles available on launch day" with around another half-dozen making it to market by the end of the year. For the moment, though, he would only confirm eight titles as being available the same day and date as the 360: Project Gotham Racing 3, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Madden NFL 06, NBA Live 06, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06, Need for Speed Most Wanted, and FIFA 06: Road to FIFA World Cup."

"As for the other seven to 12 Xbox 360 games that will be available on November 22, Reid said they would be announced "in the next few weeks." "They are currently in the final stages of certification," he told GameSpot, referring to the quality-assurance process all third-party games must go through from their respective console-maker. "

I don't visit Gamespot so I can't provide a link for that info, but apparently they are starting to confirm which games will be available on launch day.

Oh, and the Dreamcast had been out for over 9 months in Japan before it launched here, so it was a little easier for them to have everything confirmed.

[flashburn]

Likewise WTF difference is it going to make for a game like PGR 3 or PDO to have an extra 3-4 weeks of development time? Seriously, how much more polished can you make a product that's been in development for two years with a few hundred more man hours when probably hundreds of thousands went into what is done to date?


No offense, but this statement here shows that you know nothing about game development.

[pimpinc333]

Hmmm well first they said 23 -25 titles would be avail. on launch now its down to 15-20? All I care about is Elder Scrolls 4. If that isn't a launch day game I'm not sure if I will but the 360. I probably still will though.

[help1]

Likewise WTF difference is it going to make for a game like PGR 3 or PDO to have an extra 3-4 weeks of development time? Seriously, how much more polished can you make a product that's been in development for two years with a few hundred more man hours when probably hundreds of thousands went into what is done to date?

They are using a new console, meaning the games are gonna be full of bugs and all that, the need ever hour they can get.

[ragepower]

I'm buying at least 6 games at launch... (which is a lot for me) Kameo, PDZ, Tiger, Madden, Call of Duty 2, Morrowind

[Dr Mario Kart]

What was the launch window list for xbox 1? The 360 launch list seems similar at least in genre if not also in quantity. Sports games, fps/action, and a western rpg. Of course that to me seems like a generalization of the entire xbox 1 library, but thats coming from a bias.

[shipwreck]

What was the launch window list for xbox 1? The 360 launch list seems similar at least in genre if not also in quantity. Sports games, fps/action, and a western rpg. Of course that to me seems like a generalization of the entire xbox 1 library, but thats coming from a bias.

Here's what came out in November of 2001 for the original Xbox:

4x4 Evolution 2
Air Force Delta Storm
Amped*
Arctic Thunder*
Azurik: Rise Of Perathia*
Cel Damage
Dark Summit
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2*
Dead Or Alive 3
F1 2001*
Fuzion Frenzy
Halo
Kabuki Warriors*
Mad Dash Racing
Madden NFL 2002
NASCAR Heat 2002
NASCAR Thunder 2002
NBA Live 2002*
NFL Fever 2002
NHL Hitz 2002
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Project Gotham Racing
Shrek
Star Wars: Starfighter Special Edition*
Test Drive Off-Road: Wide Open
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X
TransWorld Surf

The eight games with * are the games that did not make it out on launch day, but were out by the end of November.

[Sleepkyng]

No offense, but this statement here shows that you know nothing

fixed, cheers.

[Apossum]

fixed, cheers.

lol, i was just about to do the same thing.

[Dogpatch]

fixed, cheers.

:rofl:

[PittsburghAfterDark]

No offense, but this statement here shows that you know nothing about game development.

Yeah, and you're a world class developer in and of yourself. You're completely aware of the project requirements of a $5 million game. You know everything about de-bugging, glitch elimination and getting a production ready certified copy to market.

Let me guess. Your dad works for ***INSERT GAME COMPANY HERE***.

STFU

[mietha]

Yeah, and you're a world class developer in and of yourself. You're completely aware of the project requirements of a $5 million game. You know everything about de-bugging, glitch elimination and getting a production ready certified copy to market.

Let me guess. Your dad works for ***INSERT GAME COMPANY HERE***.

STFU

Being a smart ass and insulting someone doesn't make them any less right. EVERY game can use all of the development time it can get. There are ALWAYS bugs to be found, controls to be tightened up, gameplay/pacing balance issues, graphical glitches, etc. You don't have to be a game developer to know that. If you are a gamer, and know anything at all about the industry, or hell, even have G4, that is common knowlegde. For that matter, all you really need to know this is to play a game that was rushed to release on a date set way in advance, or a game with a 4 year development time that was released when it was ready, not before. Does a long development time insure a good game? No, of course not. But a rushed release almost always guarentees a shitty one.

Just had to add this... As to your signature "Will someone please find me a REAL Republican President and Congress? The ones we have are clearly imposters." Apparently you know nothing of politics either. The current government only cares about big business, oil, people that gross over a million a year, and shooting people. It doesn't get more republican than that. It has gotten so bad, TED KENNEDY actually tried to do something (raise minimum wage). When that fat bastard actually gets off his ass and attempts something, you know things are pretty fucked up.

[Apossum]

Being a smart ass and insulting someone doesn't make them any less right.

That's pretty much all PAD does.

[Strell]

Yea, WTF MICROSOFT

YOU FORGOT AZURIK 360


...

AND POLAND

[PittsburghAfterDark]

There's a world of difference between tightening things up and making market. There comes a time when a game is good enough to go. Obviously if you want to make a game absolutely perfect graphically, sound wise, bugs, glitches etc. you could work on it for 4 years but would you or would you not make your money back.

Developers internally and third parties have known the 360 launch period for at least 12-18 months. Projects like Oblivion have been in development before the console had specs or a name!

You give someone 2-3 years like in the case of PGR 3, Oblivion, Kameo (Which has been in development since the damn Game Cube launched.) you're going to try and tell me, with a straight face, that those games ultimate success, failure or quality is going to depend on 2-3 more weeks of polish?

Sorry, not buying.

[shipwreck]

There's a world of difference between tightening things up and making market. There comes a time when a game is good enough to go. Obviously if you want to make a game absolutely perfect graphically, sound wise, bugs, glitches etc. you could work on it for 4 years but would you or would you not make your money back.

Developers internally and third parties have known the 360 launch period for at least 12-18 months. Projects like Oblivion have been in development before the console had specs or a name!

You give someone 2-3 years like in the case of PGR 3, Oblivion, Kameo (Which has been in development since the damn Game Cube launched.) you're going to try and tell me, with a straight face, that those games ultimate success, failure or quality is going to depend on 2-3 more weeks of polish?

Sorry, not buying.

I don't feel like arguing with you about if a few weeks can make a game succeed or fail because you've already made your mind up on that one. I just wanted to let you know that Kameo has gone gold and the version that was playable at X05 was a 100% complete version.

[Chris in Cali]

Microsoft needs to just come out say look, "Here are the launch titles, here is the backwards compatible list, here is how everything works."

[pimpinc333]

There's a world of difference between tightening things up and making market. There comes a time when a game is good enough to go. Obviously if you want to make a game absolutely perfect graphically, sound wise, bugs, glitches etc. you could work on it for 4 years but would you or would you not make your money back.

Developers internally and third parties have known the 360 launch period for at least 12-18 months. Projects like Oblivion have been in development before the console had specs or a name!

You give someone 2-3 years like in the case of PGR 3, Oblivion, Kameo (Which has been in development since the damn Game Cube launched.) you're going to try and tell me, with a straight face, that those games ultimate success, failure or quality is going to depend on 2-3 more weeks of polish?

Sorry, not buying.

Yea I think a couple of weeks would help. Elder Scrolls 4 has the Unicorn/Minotaur glitch they are tring to fix now, and who knows how long that will take.

[Skycaptain99]

Certain game delays are unnecessary, like Starcraft: Ghost, which could have been done a while ago, even with the publisher change

[shipwreck]

Certain game delays are unnecessary, like Starcraft: Ghost, which could have been done a while ago, even with the publisher change

It was a developer change which is greatly different than just a publisher change. And I'd assume that the game needed a lot of work when they switched development teams.

[Ruined]

Yea, WTF MICROSOFT

YOU FORGOT AZURIK 360


I thought Azurik for xbox was awesome :(

[jollydwarf]

I don't really 'know' or 'understand' the industry like so many omniscient message board users do, but my simpleton impression of everything from Frodo introducing it on TRL or whatever to this week's X05 is...disorganized. I get the sense that they're scrambling more than maybe they should have to get this thing out with a decent, bug-free launch lineup, and that they're putting it out now because they feel that they have to have the holiday and that they HAVE TO get a headstart on Sony at any cost. The lackluster videos got the ball rolling in the wrong direction, the 'choice' of consoles fanned the flames, and their noncommital approach here to solid info in the home stretch is just aggravating.


P.S. Microsoft's promotional videos and ads are still the most 'calculated' looking, to. Are we really supposed to feel more affinity for a console because jeans models are pretending to find it as enthralling as an E-fueled night at their super-exclusive, velvet-roped Manhattan club of choice? I know ALL the electronic companies use their soulless, over-researched, and misguided version of 'hip' to reach the mainstream, but MS is really the most oppressive about it. But I guess they've already got us.

EDIT: The November EGM promises the first batch of 360 games reviews next month. That'll hit subscribers' mailboxes in a little less than a month, which is three weeks before launch. It'll be a really good sign of what's done (or, more importantly NOT done) in the mad dash towards 11/22. They wouldn't have made that promise if they didn't have an agreement with Microsoft, so failing to deliver on it would tell that someone is 'altering the deal' (not EGM). Either way, I see many games sadly in need of another layer of polish being released before Christmas.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I think that's one of the best ways to sum this up. Disorganized. Followed by rushed, half baked and an echo of your statement that they are indeed scrambling.

Hey, being objective the initial Xbox launch was not that great. Sure they had 15 or so games out but only 4 that ultimately, in hindsight, turned out to be great or good. DOA 3, Halo, PGR and arguably Oddworld Munch's Oddysee. The rest was either complete garbage or PS2 ports.

PGR 3 has to have been in the works since 2 was finished in September of 2003 if not before. Kameo has been in development before the Game Cube launch, it's printed on my GCN box. Quake IV? Well, Quake III came out in 2000? Obviously Quake IV is done and won't have a problem making day one. Oblivion has been stated to be in the works for 3 years. Ridge Racer? haven't seen one in two years. PDO I would suspect has been in development since 2002 if not before. I can't imagine MS not strongly recommending this title be made after they purchased Rare.

I'm not going to go through the litany of launch titles and suggest development time. For EA, Ubisoft, Activision etc. They know all too well what needs to be done for continuing annual installments of sports games, Clancy games and Tony Hawk. They're all aware of what it takes to do a generational leap. However even those big three "feel" disorganized.

We know EA will rush less than stellar product to market on occasion to make market. Ubisoft and Activision are not that bad or guilty. Michel Ancel hasn't released a game since Beyond Good & Evil in 2003. King Kong should be a no brainer especially since they've had complete access to movie info, sets, scripts and more than likely CGI work and Peter Jackson himself.

So where do I think the fault lies? Microsoft themselves. It's all been in the hardware IMHO. Final dev kits going out in August? E3 demos running on G5 Macs? Beta kits in June? I realize they had to make the most powerful and complete hardware they could to compete with known info about the PS3 despite launching a year early.

However the whole thing IS disorganized, rushed and from a hype standpoint we've all bought the sizzle yet none of us really know what's going to be on the tray the waiter puts in front of us yet. It just seems like a complete mess.

[javeryh]

Microsoft needs to just come out say look, "Here are the launch titles, here is the backwards compatible list, here is how everything works."

QFT, biatch!!!

[shipwreck]

I don't think Microsoft has talked about the backwards compatibility in months. Well, except to say that you will be able to play Halo 2. I'd have to agree that they've left everyone out in the dark on what exactly is going to be compatible. I guess if all else fails, when they deliver my X360, I can just start sticking games into it and see what plays. There's at least two games that I know won't be compatible, so here's the list so far:

Compatible:
Halo 2

Not Compatible:
Steel Battalion
Steel Battalion: Line of Contact

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Dance Dance Revolutions will also be unplayable with existing dance pads.

[AshesofWake]

Dance Dance Revolutions will also be unplayable with existing dance pads.

thank god

[Skylander7]

I don't think Microsoft has talked about the backwards compatibility in months. Well, except to say that you will be able to play Halo 2. I'd have to agree that they've left everyone out in the dark on what exactly is going to be compatible. I guess if all else fails, when they deliver my X360, I can just start sticking games into it and see what plays. There's at least two games that I know won't be compatible, so here's the list so far:

Compatible:
Halo 2

Not Compatible:
Steel Battalion
Steel Battalion: Line of Contact

Boy is it going to suck if Panzer Orta is on the N/C list. Its going to suck more if that's the case, and Bruce Lee & Kabuki Warriors are compatible

[mcwilliams132]

Better idea guys...either sit on your thumbs and wait or stop your bitchin'.

Xbox 360 will rock...most of your current xbox games will be backwards compatable and you'll have plenty of time to blow $50-$60 on games that will be $20 in 6mo time.

Knowing a yes/no list of 300+ games is going to help you how?
Knowing exactly which games are hitting the shelves at launch is important because?

Chill....

[ryanbph]

Better idea guys...either sit on your thumbs and wait or stop your bitchin'.

Xbox 360 will rock...most of your current xbox games will be backwards compatable and you'll have plenty of time to blow $50-$60 on games that will be $20 in 6mo time.

Knowing a yes/no list of 300+ games is going to help you how?
Knowing exactly which games are hitting the shelves at launch is important because?

Chill....
exactly

[shipwreck]

Better idea guys...either sit on your thumbs and wait or stop your bitchin'.

Xbox 360 will rock...most of your current xbox games will be backwards compatable and you'll have plenty of time to blow $50-$60 on games that will be $20 in 6mo time.

Knowing a yes/no list of 300+ games is going to help you how?
Knowing exactly which games are hitting the shelves at launch is important because?

Chill....

Please tell me where you read that most of my current xbox games will be backwards compatible.

[Strell]

I think what everyone is pissed off about is that MS has hyped up a feature like that, which really only seems like a reaction to Nintendo and Sony's confirmation of BC.

In the end, seems to be one of those cases where someone promises you something, and then you keep reminding them about it, and all they can do is the equivalent of "OMG LOOK AT THAT DOG OVER THERE" and then running away.

It's a valid thing to bitch about, being less than 2 months from launch, especially since a lot of gamers are probably financing their purchase by selling off their old Xbox.

I predict only Azurik will be BC. That and Kakuto Chojin.

And yes. It will be awesome.

[mykevermin]

For real...dude has roughly 7000 Xbox titles (seriously, fuckin' everything but the sequel to "Sneakers").

[MaxBiaggi2]

my simpleton impression of everything from Frodo introducing it on TRL or whatever to this week's X05 is...disorganized.

Given the mess that was the original Xbox marketing campaign (Taco Bell, Sobe, skating tour sponsorships, etc.), I'm not sure the corporate spin on mainstream marketing makes a whole lot of sense to begin with. Perhaps they're just hoping to create a little buzz or brand awareness.