Xbox 360 Hardrive contents, plus J. Allard pisses me off again.

[Chris in Cali]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/656/656427p1.html

"....Does it come with the backward compatible data necessary to play Halo or Halo 2? Ha, well, Allard wouldn't say, but Microsoft long ago confirmed Halo 2 will be backward compatible, so whether it's on the hard drive or not, that shouldn't be a worry. If there was one "best selling game" on Xbox, Halo 2 was never in question."


Just a little over a month until the Xbox 360 comes out, and they still are ducking the backwards compatible question, what the fuck! Anyway, you can read more about the hardrive if you click the link. So far I'm dissappointed, X05 I thought would be giving us some more solid launch info, but really all we got were some screen shots.

[redgopher]

This is simple for anyone to understand.

The Xbox 360 uses PowerPC architecture. The Xbox uses Intel x86 technology.

The analogy is:
The Xbox 360 is a Mac. The Xbox is a Windows PC.

They have to RECOMPILE/REPROGRAM parts or all of the game application in order for it to run on the new system. This can take lots of work.

Just keep your Xbox (if you have one or haven't traded it in already) because everyone knows that not all of the Xbox library will be playable on 360.

[huntlyon]

they're still working on the emulation...

allard said there would be much more concrete details in a few weeks regarding confirmed launch titles and exact titles to be backwards compatible.


the list of titles will grow over time to be backwards compatible... i'm sure if you raise enough of a stink and get get enough friends to complain with you, you may get a more niche title emulated

[Chris in Cali]

Well, there's only a few weeks left.... and this is X05, Microsoft's last event before launch, so I would think now is the time to let it all out, but I guess it'll be another "few more weeks."

[Chris in Cali]

This is simple for anyone to understand.

The Xbox 360 uses PowerPC architecture. The Xbox uses Intel x86 technology.

The analogy is:
The Xbox 360 is a Mac. The Xbox is a Windows PC.

They have to RECOMPILE/REPROGRAM parts or all of the game application in order for it to run on the new system. This can take lots of work.

Just keep your Xbox (if you have one or haven't traded it in already) because everyone knows that not all of the Xbox library will be playable on 360.


Thanks for explaining what everyone already knows. I never said I didn't understand how it worked, or why it's hard for them to make games BC, because I don't care. What I do care about is what games are going to make the cut. I want to know what games those will be, not how they get it to work.

[shipwreck]

As I stated in the other thread, this is all we know right now:

Compatible:
Halo 2

Not Compatible:
Steel Battalion
Steel Battalion: Line Of Contact

I don't expect to much out of the backwards compatibility at launch, but hopefully they will actually continue to add games to the supported games list. I have a sinking suspicion that the support will just kind of fade away. Someone at Microsoft is going to figure out that supporting Xbox games isn't making them any money.

Backwards compatibility is something that should be advertised as a selling feature. It just looks like Microsoft might just say screw it after the big name games are supported.

And at this point, these things are already being manufactured and boxed up, so I would think that they would know which games are supported on the launch model. Any other games would require patches from Xbox Live at this point.

[RedvsBlue]

I have a sinking suspicion that the support will just kind of fade away. Someone at Microsoft is going to figure out that supporting Xbox games isn't making them any money.

Backwards compatibility is something that should be advertised as a selling feature. It just looks like Microsoft might just say screw it after the big name games are supported.



You sir have hit the nail right on the head. Your gonna see some big pushes on the backward compatability issue for the first year or so and then its gonna be completely ignored.

[Chris in Cali]

I'm just pissed because Xbox was my favorite system, maybe even of all time, and I have a library of about 42 Xbox games... and that's after downsizing it to just the games I like best. So it's all a bunch of games that I don't want to give up. Not to mention I see a slew of new Xbox games coming out that I'd like to buy such as Far Cry Instincts, Ninja Gaiden Black, ect, but am afraid to because I don't know if I'll be able to even play them.

For the Xbox 360 to be $400, it's just frustrating that it's not going to be BC after I supported Microsoft so much with the Xbox. I bought all my third party titles on it and everything. I was hoping to at least be able to play ten of my games on the 360.

[shipwreck]

Believe me, I understand why you are upset (I own quite a few Xbox games myself), but did you get rid of your original Xbox already? I'm planning to continue to play on my original Xbox still because I am concerned about how well the games will emulate on the 360.

[VanillaGorilla]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/656/656427p1.html
So far I'm dissappointed, X05 I thought would be giving us some more solid launch info, but really all we got were some screen shots.

Actually, we got 8 confirmed launch titles.....

[Chris in Cali]

Yeah, I traded in my Xbox for the 360 at EB two months ago.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

You sir have hit the nail right on the head. Your gonna see some big pushes on the backward compatability issue for the first year or so and then its gonna be completely ignored.

Exactly. Ever heard of Bleem? Xbox360 BC will be going the same route. It's just too much of a hassle for the to emulate these games properly and as shipwreck said, it isn't making them any money.

[mcwilliams132]

This is simple for anyone to understand.

The Xbox 360 uses PowerPC architecture. The Xbox uses Intel x86 technology.

The analogy is:
The Xbox 360 is a Mac. The Xbox is a Windows PC.

They have to RECOMPILE/REPROGRAM parts or all of the game application in order for it to run on the new system. This can take lots of work.

Just keep your Xbox (if you have one or haven't traded it in already) because everyone knows that not all of the Xbox library will be playable on 360.


It's not so much that it's PowerPC vs. Intel (PowerPC is NOT exclusive to Mac...so get off the Xbox is as MAC kick! Remember, Apple is switching to Intel.), the issue is video emulation.

The original Xbox uses a nVidia video chip, Xbox 360 uses ATI. In order for MS to support backwards compatibility, they needed to pay off nVidia to emulate their chipset.

That's been fixed a few months back. This is really a non issue.

If you have the hard drive, you'll have backwards compatability. I'd imagine that a good majority of xbox 1 titles will run just fine on Xbox 360.

[shipwreck]

If you have the hard drive, you'll have backwards compatability. I'd imagine that a good majority of xbox 1 titles will run just fine on Xbox 360.

I don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't be actively advertising this then if that was the case. Microsoft knows that people have questions about what is going to be supported. They've had to have already loaded the software on to launch X360's at this point, so they know what is supported out of the box. Why do they refuse to tell us about games other than Halo 2?

I don't understand why Microsoft would want to keep the game list hush hush if a lot of games are supported.

[SpottedNigel]

The whole "Look at the pretty graphics and dont ask questions" ad campaign is getting a bit irratating.

[RedvsBlue]

The whole "Look at the pretty graphics and dont ask questions" ad campaign is getting a bit irratating.


You forgot faceplates...

[Stryffe2004]

Microsoft is really making me do a lot of head scratching right now. The fact the launch list is still not solidified with less than 2 months to go is puzzling at best. The EA games at launch were pretty much no-brainers since they are basically high res ports of the XBOX versions with a few bells and whistles, but I don't see those as system sellers. They really need to firm up some dates and get a list of day one lauch titles if they want to get people excited.

[RedvsBlue]

Microsoft is really making me do a lot of head scratching right now. The fact the launch list is still not solidified with less than 2 months to go is puzzling at best. The EA games at launch were pretty much no-brainers since they are basically high res ports of the XBOX versions with a few bells and whistles, but I don't see those as system sellers. They really need to firm up some dates and get a list of day one lauch titles if they want to get people excited.

Rushed Launch anyone?

[Javery]

This launch is turning into a huge mess.

[shipwreck]

Rushed Launch anyone?

I don't know if it's anymore rushed than any other systems. It's just we see Microsoft's systems first because the launch in the States first. Nintendo and Sony's systems are out for months in Japan before they launch here.

I think they might be trying to do too many things with the X360 and are kind of ignoring the gamers and shooting for just casual humans (like the PSP did). I'm still really excited about the 360 because it looks like it is going to have the type of games I like to play. I just don't know how many people are excited about faceplates, Live Arcade, Live Marketplace, Xbox Live Silver, gamer tiles and various other things that Microsoft is trying to push that nobody really cares about.

[levi]

GI: One of my favorite features of the 360 is the ability to plug your iPod in and listen to music. Is there any worry that certain companies might update their software to make it somehow not work?



Allard: You can’t worry about stuff like that. I’m pro-consumer to the end on this one and anyone in my company that thought it was a bad idea for us to plug in Sony devices or Apple devices into this thing, I ended that conversation pretty quickly. This is the right thing to do for consumers. Once they’ve invested $500 into their digital media library you can’t ask them to go buy a 360 music player and a 360 digital camera. No! They’ve got their stuff. They’re going to want to plug it in. We want to be open here. And if anything I wish we could be more collaborative with the other companies that are doing those things. And if Sony or Apple called me up and said, “Hey, we want to do some special stuff with 360.” I’m on it. I think it would not be in anyone’s interest to say we’re not going to work with 360. I think it’s good for them. I think it’s good for us. I think it’s good for consumers. And in so far as they do, I’ll be the first one calling you guys up saying, “Hey, can I have an editorial page?” I’m going to write a letter to Mr. So and So from company Such and Such who just did something with us.



GI: Have any companies said anything…



Allard: Steve [Jobs] asked me for one. He’s like, “When this thing comes out I want to get one of these things. It’s pretty cool.” And I was like, “You didn’t give me much of a break on those 7,000 G5s I bought, Steve.” (laughs)



that shits hilarious.

[nwaugh]

This launch is turning into a huge mess.

While Microsoft hasn't thrown open their doors and been forthcoming about every last detail about the 360, there's still a month and a half until launch. I'll be the first to bury them on November 23rd, but I think I'll let Microsoft get the benefit of the doubt until the 22nd.

[VanillaGorilla]

How exactly is this a "rushed launch" and a "huge mess"? And the EA games aren't system sellers? Are you out of your mind? What game was the focal point of the PS2 launch? Madden. What game series has been the #1 selling game series for the last however many years? Madden. Believe it or not, the casual gamers, people who love Madden and the other EA Sports games, far outweigh the hardcore gamers, or the people who will spend 200 hours playing Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. How can you honestly say that the 360 version of Madden (plus the other EA Sports games, which always crack the Top 10 in sales charts), which is always in the Top 5 every year in teams of sales, won't be a "system seller"? Come on people, quit grasping at straws and trying to find ways to bash the 360 launch. 8 out of the "15 to 20" launch games have been confirmed, and the only reason the others haven't is because they are still in Certification. You cried last week when you still had no confirmed launch games. Now you have 8, and you're still complaining.

And about the backwards compatibility issue, why would you buy a 360, and then play Xbox games on it? If you're still playing Xbox games, don't buy a 360 then. Common sense, how I love it.

[shipwreck]

How exactly is this a "rushed launch" and a "huge mess"? And the EA games aren't system sellers? Are you out of your mind? What game was the focal point of the PS2 launch? Madden. What game series has been the #1 selling game series for the last however many years? Madden. Believe it or not, the casual gamers, people who love Madden and the other EA Sports games, far outweigh the hardcore gamers, or the people who will spend 200 hours playing Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. How can you honestly say that the 360 version of Madden (plus the other EA Sports games, which always crack the Top 10 in sales charts), which is always in the Top 5 every year in teams of sales, won't be a "system seller"? Come on people, quit grasping at straws and trying to find ways to bash the 360 launch. 8 out of the "15 to 20" launch games have been confirmed, and the only reason the others haven't is because they are still in Certification. You cried last week when you still had no confirmed launch games. Now you have 8, and you're still complaining.

And about the backwards compatibility issue, why would you buy a 360, and then play Xbox games on it? If you're still playing Xbox games, don't buy a 360 then. Common sense, how I love it.

I'm not concerned about the launch titles (they already stated that they would finalize that in early November). They just need to give us some more detailed information about what games are going to backwards compatible at launch. They know this already and I don't understand why they won't release the information.

[Noodle Pirate!]

I will admit to not quite understanding the complexity of the backwards compatability thing. Is it something that only MS can make work? Can it only be implemented during manufacturing? -Or is it something that a 3rd party can create like bleem ? Or like patch that you just need to upload or save to the HD?

Cause if a 3rd party can create it, I'm sure someone will step up and it's just a matter of time before all games can be played. If its MS then I'm a bit more worried that they wont get around to it.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I will admit to not quite understanding the complexity of the backwards compatability thing. Is it something that only MS can make work? Can it only be implemented during manufacturing? -Or is it something that a 3rd party can create like bleem ? Or like patch that you just need to upload or save to the HD?

Cause if a 3rd party can create it, I'm sure someone will step up and it's just a matter of time before all games can be played. If its MS then I'm a bit more worried that they wont get around to it.

They should hire teh haxxors to help them out.

[shrike4242]

I'm not concerned about the launch titles (they already stated that they would finalize that in early November). They just need to give us some more detailed information about what games are going to backwards compatible at launch. They know this already and I don't understand why they won't release the information.
As you and I are in the same situation, shipwreck, this is the one huge reason why I'm waiting on a 360 and I'm sending off my Xbox to MS to get it fixed for the DRE problems it has, and have it covered for a year.

Sony was beaming about BC from the gate with the PS2. MS should be doing the same thing, though they're not because they're making it up as they go along and figuring it out as quickly as they can.

If it was carved in stone and done, MS would be advertising it. As they're not, it shows they're still figuring it out, and then they'll distribute it as they figure it out via XBL. Though, what happens to people without XBL that are looking for BC updates on titles they own? Are they pretty much fucked?

[Chris in Cali]

If you're still playing Xbox games, don't buy a 360 then. Common sense, how I love it.


That's a very ignorant statement. I mean, by that logic, I assume you only one one video game system. Since you're playing games on your one system, why would you want to own others?

Not to mention Backwards compatiblity has become a bit of a standard now. Look at the PS3, it's going to have full backwards compatiblity with the Playstation, and the Playstation 2. The Nintendo Revolution, full Gamecube backwards compatiblity, and the ability to download most of Nintendo's catalog from NES to N64.

Not everyone has the money to go and buy a new $400 system when ever a company puts one out. I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me, I traded in my Xbox and applied the credit towards the 360. I'll probably be getting 2 games with it, and at $59.99 a pop those games are going to have to last me a while. Backwards compatbility would help easy the higher price point of next-gen games. When I've exhausted the 2 games I bought at launch, but can not justify purchasing another game at full price, it would be nice to pop in my Xbox games to tide me over until a price drop of newer games.

Another thing that's very nice about backwards compatiblity is not having a living room full of game consoles and wires. Just imagine if the PS 2 didn't play PS1 games, and the coming consoles from Sony and Nintendo weren't backwards compatible. I'd have a graveyard of consoles in my living room, with wires everywhere. Not to mention the dust factor, and having only two inputs in my television.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

J Allard and Robbie Bach haven't given straight answers to straight questions on the 360 in any interview I've seen. They should run for office in Washington they're so good at giving non-answers.

To me backwards compatibility is a waste without the ability to transfer your old HDD and download premium content you previously purchased. Yes, I'd love to dump out the contents of my Xbox onto the 360 and know every game was going to work and trade it in or sell it for $50. However without the ability to move content I could care less about what will or will not work with the 360 as now I'm not erasing 125 game saves and playing them all over again on the 360.

As far as what comes on the 360 HDD most of it, if not all of it, with the exception of the Patjinov game I'm going to want to erase. When I saw that list I was reminded of the crap discs that came with the Sega CD & 3DO. Absolutely a waste of time, money and HDD space.

If I were anything less than a stark mad raving Xbox fanboy, which I admittedly am, I don't think I'd give a fuck about the 360 launch like I don't give a fuck about anything PS3 or Revolution I've seen so far.

[chickenhawk]

Not to mention the dust factor, and having only two inputs in my television.

Buy a switcher. ;) Just messing with you. I am with you 100%. The statement by VG was asinine in my opinion. BC is a big deal and it's a huge selling point for me with the PS3. I would agree though that most casual gamers probably don't care about it as much but it does seem it should be the standard. I imagine future MS consoles won't have a problem being BC unless they switch things up again.

[shipwreck]

They've already stated that the save files would not be able to be transfered between the Xbox and X360. That sucks, as it would be extremely easy to transfer them if Microsoft didn't have everything locked down. You should be able to just system link these things together and then FTP the files from the Xbox to the X360.

I think the main reason they are not letting you do that is due to hacked saves. This would give hackers an easy way to get files into the system.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Hey, the PS3 is going to be absolutely pointless in backwards compatibility for the same reason. Without hardware slots to accept PSone & 2 memory cards? What's the point?

[Stryffe2004]

Just to be clear, I am not bashing. I alreayd have the silver package from Gamestop ordered so I am buying into this 360 thing whole hog. I just don't think the launch i sbeing handled the best way. I agree that EA games would be system sellers if they werent already out. They were system sellers on PS2 because the only other competition was the PS1 and Dramcast, which had no Madden or NBA Live.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

NFL and NBA 2K were better than both of those.

[AshesofWake]

J Allard gives me a hard on

[shipwreck]

J Allard gives me a hard on

I'm wearing a sportscoat and a hooded sweatshirt right now. It's all about customization after all.

[rabidmonkeys]

This is simple for anyone to understand.

The Xbox 360 uses PowerPC architecture. The Xbox uses Intel x86 technology.

The analogy is:
The Xbox 360 is a Mac. The Xbox is a Windows PC.

They have to RECOMPILE/REPROGRAM parts or all of the game application in order for it to run on the new system. This can take lots of work.

Just keep your Xbox (if you have one or haven't traded it in already) because everyone knows that not all of the Xbox library will be playable on 360.

That would be a great analogy if it were correct. The real reason that has been stated many times before is that it was originally built with nvidia as the GPU, using very specific drivers and development environment. However, this round they changed processors and it is now an ATI GPU, which is not compatible with the Nvidia drivers.

There was a press release announcing the liscence that M$ purchased from Nvidia to allow the ability to be backwards compatible.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see mcwilliams132' s post.

[Ultimate Matt X]

I still say saves will be transferable, maybe not with Microsoft's help, but with some kind of third party device. If you can save new Xbox saves to the 360 when you're playing on it you'll be able to get your old ones over some way too. If anything with the detachable hard drive there ought to be a way to connect it to your PC where you could have your Xbox saves waiting.

[wubb]

Backwards compatibility is something that should be advertised as a selling feature. It just looks like Microsoft might just say screw it after the big name games are supported.


This has been my expectation ever since the E3 announcement that 'best selling games' (or however they phrased it) would be BC. To me that said, '360 will be BC? Not so much...')

You may not be able to use PS1 and PS2 mem cards on the PS3 (I have no idea on that one way or the other) but I have to assume you'll be able to save your progress somehow. If not I'd have to agree with PAD that BC on the PS3 is absolutely pointless. But I really just can't believe they'd bother to put the hardware in for BC and not let you save progress.

I wonder if VG is OXM's editor-in-chief? (He's put out a few asinine editorials about why BC doesn't matter.)

[road3283]

You may not be able to use PS1 and PS2 mem cards on the PS3 (I have no idea on that one way or the other) but I have to assume you'll be able to save your progress somehow. If not I'd have to agree with PAD that BC on the PS3 is absolutely pointless. But I really just can't believe they'd bother to put the hardware in for BC and not let you save progress.


Since Ps2 accepted Ps1 memory cards one would imagine the Ps3 will at least accept Ps2 cards. But as you say I don't think anything is official yet.

[Cth]

Exactly. Ever heard of Bleem? Xbox360 BC will be going the same route. It's just too much of a hassle for the to emulate these games properly and as shipwreck said, it isn't making them any money.

Yeah, but Bleem worked.. the only reason they stopped was because Sony couldn't handle the competition and sued them into oblivion.

[Msia]

Here's some more typical bullshit from him as well. Why is the hell is he in videogames in the first place? I think he's more suited for politics.

http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2005/10/microsoft_respo.php

I don't know who we've let down. There isn't a game on 360 that you can't play without a hard drive, so I think that's a good thing for consumers.

Oh right except for FF XI and every other MMORPG that is going to be on 360 in the future. :roll:

[jkanownik]

There will never be a big announcement on BC for the xbox 360. The core system assures that because it will have ZERO BC out of the box and any announcement would only confuse people further. As we've all seen the video we know that production has started, so Microsoft knows exactly which titles will be BC out of the box with the premium system.


P.S.
The PS2 doesn't guarantee BC on all games. Per the Playstation web site Some PlayStation format software titles may perform differently on PlayStation 2 than they do on PlayStation. Or they may not perform properly on the PlayStation 2. Make sure the disc can be used with this system. And 3 years after release I still can't find an official BC list on Sony's web site.

[mcwilliams132]

Game Informer Inerview snipet:
http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/c091004c-27d8-4350-bb46-f465b4c49f0e.htm
-----------------------------------------

GI: Two of the big questions were launch lineup and then what games would be ready for backwards compatibility. Can you give us any kind of list for the day one titles? When will we find those out?

Moore: You have all heard this before I’m sure, but we are working on a software emulation that we have built that is had to hand combat game by game by game. Each game is emulated and you know the issue with the GPU and the CPU. We will probably be in a position in about two weeks to give you a list and that list will go up on Xbox.com and it will get updated as more and more games get through certification.

GI: So out of the box, some games will be playable, that’s what you’re saying?

Moore: Yeah. And that list will grow and grow and grow.

GI: Will you be charged for that in Marketplace or will that be free?

Moore: There will just be an auto-update that you may not even be aware that happens. Say Crimson Skys becomes backwards compatible. We will post an update on Xbox.com. We may even set up an email alert for people who are interested enough. Bottom line, you will start seeing more concrete information in two weeks. We will post a list. The guys continue to pound through these games and the emulation is working well. After launch, we will continue to do it. Until consumers show lack of interest, then we will move on.

[secretvampire]

And 3 years after release I still can't find an official BC list on Sony's web site.

In this case, does it really matter? There are a TINY handful of PS1 games that won't work on the PS2, and in many cases they were very early games that didn't sell well anyway. You are talking < 1% of the PS1 library. However, the way MS is being vague about this, you may have a large majority > 50%+ that won't be BC for a while or ever.

[Professor Oreo]

Game Informer Inerview snipet:
http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/c091004c-27d8-4350-bb46-f465b4c49f0e.htm

The guys continue to pound through these games and the emulation is working well. After launch, we will continue to do it. Until consumers show lack of interest, then we will move on.

There you go. They'll support backwards compatibility for a few months until they figure they have enough quailty system-selling new 360 games out on the market, then they'll drop it like a bad habit.

[CYRiX]

On the PS2 backwards compatibility, it works with some of the games I have never seen anyone else have.

Xbox360 is the first one out, give it a break, its got some time to fix it up.

I just hope that all this customization is per gamertag (i think it is) because I have 2 bros who wont want what I want.

[Spoon_si]

I think Microsoft is doing just fine... there is alot of work needed to be done for a launch...

If you wanted to talk about crap launch... anybody remember the Horrible PS2 launch...

At least Microsoft has confirmed there will be plently of 360 during launch...

Still Dreamcast has the best launch to date....

[epobirs]

As I stated in the other thread, this is all we know right now:

Compatible:
Halo 2

Not Compatible:
Steel Battalion
Steel Battalion: Line Of Contact

I don't expect to much out of the backwards compatibility at launch, but hopefully they will actually continue to add games to the supported games list. I have a sinking suspicion that the support will just kind of fade away. Someone at Microsoft is going to figure out that supporting Xbox games isn't making them any money.

Backwards compatibility is something that should be advertised as a selling feature. It just looks like Microsoft might just say screw it after the big name games are supported.

And at this point, these things are already being manufactured and boxed up, so I would think that they would know which games are supported on the launch model. Any other games would require patches from Xbox Live at this point.

The issue for Steel Battalion is one of hardware compatibility, not software. It is entirely possible that an adapter could be produced to work with the X360's USB ports.

It is untrue to say that supporting Xbox games is not a net revenue source. It is the cost of the Xbox hardware that made it into a losing proposition. A substantial number of Xbox title were quite profitable for Microsoft and third party publishers. Since these games have long since covered their development and release marketing costs they are very lucrative if they continue to sell steadily as PH titles. Ongoing sales of PS1 GH games on the PS2 earned vast amounts of profit for Sony despite the continuing availability of the inexpensive PSone. Since the Xbox will soon disappear from retail (except for used units) Microsoft has ample motivation to offer continued growth for the original Xbox platform. At least for those games that have earned the consideration.

Much like the contiuing sales of FFVII, Microsoft can expect to keep moving, for example, KOTOR at a good pace for years to come so long as there is a platform available where it can run. It isn't the same kind of income as generated by a newly released major hit but, as mentioned before, the costs are minimal. Retailers love 'evergreen' items like that because the profits margins are as good as a new release but the effort involved in selling it is minimal.

My take on the lack of mention of the backward compatibility support at X05 was simply because that wasn't a focus of the event. This was about selling the Xbox 360 on its own merits as delivering something new and desirable, not for the utility of playing existing games.

[epobirs]

There you go. They'll support backwards compatibility for a few months until they figure they have enough quailty system-selling new 360 games out on the market, then they'll drop it like a bad habit.

No, I think you've got that wrong. What they're saying that they cover as many original Xbox titles as consumer indicate they care about playing (especially if it means new purchases) on a continuing basis. They aren't going to take away the ability to run Holo 2 on X360 a couple of years from now. Why prevent people buying the X360 at that time from generating more Halo 2 sales?

What this really means is that they aren't going to invest time and money in certifying every single Xbox game to run on the 360. How much consumer demand is there for games like KAbuki Warriors and Stake? There may be a handful of nutters out there who'll whine but nowhere near enough to qualify the investment.

[epobirs]

This has been my expectation ever since the E3 announcement that 'best selling games' (or however they phrased it) would be BC. To me that said, '360 will be BC? Not so much...')

You may not be able to use PS1 and PS2 mem cards on the PS3 (I have no idea on that one way or the other) but I have to assume you'll be able to save your progress somehow. If not I'd have to agree with PAD that BC on the PS3 is absolutely pointless. But I really just can't believe they'd bother to put the hardware in for BC and not let you save progress.

I wonder if VG is OXM's editor-in-chief? (He's put out a few asinine editorials about why BC doesn't matter.)

People need to remember what motivates these companies on the backward compatibility issue.

It isn't about making owners of the previous hardware generation happy. It's about continuing sales of the software. Especially software for which the development costs are already paid off.

Way back when, Nintendo was strongly leaning towards making the SF/SNES backward compatible. This is why they used the otherwise unpopular and obscure 65816 processor. (The other reason was for an easier transition to the new platform for developers who were still doing almost everything in assembly language back then.) But the economics of mas ROM cartridges made it unviable to keep old titles available through small production runs. In mask ROM there is a serious cost penalty for small productions. That isn't an issue for CD and DVD, which is why the GReatest Hits line became a cash cow for Sony.

Thus Sony and Microsoft aren't very concerned about moving game saves from their previous systems to the next generation. The compatibility isn't there for the games that have already been sold but instead for those that may still be sold in the future.

Yes, Sony did include compatible memory card slots on the PS2 for PS1 cards but this was largely because the PS2 was still using a proprietary card design. Making it an improved version of the PS1 card made sense. Today, digital cameras and other flash memory driven devices are very common and their card format very wide spread. It makes far more sense to have a slot on the PS3 that can share between Sony cameras and the PSP. Since the chips for card readers are very cheap and support all the major formats it makes sense to cover SD and CF as well. But apparently that is where the cost justification ended. Having the PS2/PS1 slot would have meant implementing support for it in the PS3 chipset and somebody in power decided it was time to cut ties to that format.

Likewise, Microsoft is offering a proprietary memory card for the X360 but I suspect they don't plan to see it widely used and the hard drive heavily favored instead. If you look at buying the $300 package with no hard drive the $40 memory card is still needed. With the difference of only $60 plus tax who in their right mind is going to take that route? Why they didn't just go with SD slots is my question.

[The Mana Knight]

This launch is turning into a huge mess.Well said indeed. I'm not even going to waste $0.01 on anything X360 related this year. The launch is very rushed and X360 only looks like an Xbox 1.5 at the moment. PS2 is my main console of support during the generation and it's providing me with way too many games to consider an X360. I just don't see it being worth it to pass up on games like DQVIII, Guitar hero, SCIII, etc. to buy a $400 console, along with a ton of overpriced accessories and $60 games that are not even worth $40.

[Apossum]

w/e, they'll make all the games that matter BC, except Shenmue 2.....so you won't get to play Blinx or *insert super generic Xbox game here, of which there are hundreds*

[Bezerker]

I hope Hello Kitty Roller Derby is backwards compatible...

[FaintDeftone]

1. The EA games are nothing but "high res xbox ports"?? Have you seen the screen shots for NBA Live 06? That's no freakin' higher res port!

2. Who cares about backwards compatibility. I don't use it on the PS2 and I won't use it on the 360 either. If I wana play Xbox games I'll play my freakin' Xbox.

3. Just because the full launch title list hasn't been said yet, doesn't mean the launch is weak. We already got the full list of peripherals with pricing and all that stuff pretty early. They gotta make sure that the companies will have their games ready by November 22nd. Would you rather them release a list of games they "guess" will come out? Be patient.

[chrishicks]

I see alot of people not caring about BC saying "I'll just use my X-Box to play X-Box games" or whatever. now what about those who never purchased an X_Box but decided to get a 360? should they be forced into buying an X-Box too since they finally decided to get a 360?

I see it like this for most shoppers - mom/dad out shopping for little Johnny's christmas gift. little Johnny wants an X-Box 360 since he never had an original X-Box. mom/dad wants to get him some games to go with his shiny new 360 but can't see paying 120.00 for 2 games. now if they could pick up 6 Platinum Hits for 120.00 that he could play on his 360 he would maybe like that even more. what's a parent to do?

[Ruined]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/656/656427p1.html

"....Does it come with the backward compatible data necessary to play Halo or Halo 2? Ha, well, Allard wouldn't say, but Microsoft long ago confirmed Halo 2 will be backward compatible, so whether it's on the hard drive or not, that shouldn't be a worry. If there was one "best selling game" on Xbox, Halo 2 was never in question."


Just a little over a month until the Xbox 360 comes out, and they still are ducking the backwards compatible question, what the fuck! Anyway, you can read more about the hardrive if you click the link. So far I'm dissappointed, X05 I thought would be giving us some more solid launch info, but really all we got were some screen shots.

With all the sketchiness involved, I'm pretty much assuming a worst case scenario. i.e. 5-15 games at launch and 2-3 games every month.

[VanillaGorilla]

Did I just see someone post that he wasn't going to get a 360 because he'll be too busy playing Guitar Hero? Yeah, have fun with that, I'll be off playing Oblivion or Perfect Dark Zero (which the gaming press is loving right now), and Kameo, among others. You just play all the air guitar you want sonny.

[FaintDeftone]

Did I just see someone post that he wasn't going to get a 360 because he'll be too busy playing Guitar Hero? Yeah, have fun with that, I'll be off playing Oblivion or Perfect Dark Zero (which the gaming press is loving right now), and Kameo, among others. You just play all the air guitar you want sonny.

heh I like this guy.