View Full Version : Revolution Controller being stolen by Sony?
From GDZ:
Prior to the unveiling Nintendo were adamant that others would copy its vision of the Revolution’s controller, however they probably weren’t expecting others to follow suit so quickly.
We’ll admit it’s taken a little while to discover however a US patent registration and an article featured on the New Scientist has uncovered Sony’s plans to introduce a movement wand similar in scope to the Revolution’s controller.
Admittedly the device does appear to differ significantly from Nintendo’s vision, utilising a webcam plugged into the PS2 to monitor the motion of a wand in the player’s hand which also features buttons and LEDs; apparently the device gets over the EyeToy dilemma by fixating purely on the lights emitting LEDs and therefore is not distracted by other ambient movements, however the recognition is restricted to two-dimensional planes of movements as opposed to the Revolution's 3D motion tracking capabilities.
Now naturally there’s a big difference between filing for a patent and releasing a peripheral onto the shop shelves, however if the device does come to fruition it means that Sony had been thinking about this concept prior to January 2004 – it’s either a case of “great minds…” or they had their AIBO spies infiltrate Nintendo’s Kyoto headquarters.
Could the Revolution’s big surprise be usurped by Sony on the Playstation2 before the Revolution has even been released; we’ll have to wait and see…
Seems that for once Nintendo's paranoia may have been justified. I can only imagine the fanboy flames that this little oil spill will spark!
Source (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Sony&_039;s_Revolution!!!_8653_0_2.htm)
here is a fitting pic
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1158/image6me2gd.jpg
Pure Apathy
10-10-2005, 06:00 PM
:lol:
RedvsBlue
10-10-2005, 06:02 PM
I call it payback for how Nintendo fucked them over to begin with back in the early 90s. If Nintendo's in last place, its their own fault. They had a partnership with Sony that would have made them huge but dropped them like a bad habbit and now they deserve to lose.
Edit- Wait, now that I reread the OP again, couldn't it be argued that the Rev. controller is actually a ripoff/continuation of the eyetoy cam.
mietha
10-10-2005, 06:03 PM
At least sony will be smart enough to not make it the primary controller...
shipwreck
10-10-2005, 06:04 PM
Isn't that Sony's new slogan:
Sony does what Nintendoes
...or something like that.
mietha
10-10-2005, 06:05 PM
I call it payback for how Nintendo fucked them over to begin with back in the early 90s. If Nintendo's in last place, its their own fault. They had a partnership with Sony that would have made them huge but dropped them like a bad habbit and now they deserve to lose.
Very true. If Nintendo hadn't dicked sony in the first place, sony would have never even made a system. Thankfully they did though. Sony and Microsoft are who have put gaming over into the mainstream. Nintendo, Atari, and Sega never could.
PenguinMaster
10-10-2005, 06:08 PM
The article says it's for PS2, so the picture is wrong.
Also does anyone know what "We kind of stole the sequel to GoldenEye." is reffering to?
shipwreck
10-10-2005, 06:10 PM
The article says it's for PS2, so the picture is wrong.
Also does anyone know what "We kind of stole the sequel to GoldenEye." is reffering to?
I would guess they are talking about either TimeSplitters or GoldenEye: Rogue Agent. Hey, they needed to make the list as long as possible...
Metal Boss
10-10-2005, 06:10 PM
Sony takes it and makes it better, I'm looking forward to seeing this device in action on either ps3 or rev.
Strell
10-10-2005, 06:10 PM
This has already been discussed over at PGC.com. The wand that is referenced is also in use by Microsoft currently, although they have not utilized it for gaming purposes.
Additionally, it cannot fully mimic the Rev's interface - it can sense 2D motions - Up, Down, Left, Right, etc - but cannot fully (or even remotely, ho ho pardon the pun) emulate the fuctions of the Rev.
In short, it's nothing more than a third rate inbred cousin of the Rev's controller, if even that. It won't be the main interface, will not have the capability to mimic light guns, can't associate 3D movement with onscreen input, and simply isn't much different than a Xavix clone.
Nintendo is in the clear on this one. Now if Sony redesigns this further and makes it a more integral experience, then Ninty is f*cked. I doubt this will happen because Kaplan made it overwhelmingly clear that Nintendo is taking measures to gaurd against such infringement.
Time will tell. Who wants to take guesses on the PS4's controller?
dpatel
10-10-2005, 06:11 PM
The article says it's for PS2, so the picture is wrong.
Also does anyone know what "We kind of stole the sequel to GoldenEye." is reffering to?
maybe they mean timesplitters. Timesplitters was originally a PS2 exclusive and was developed by the same team. It became multiplatform so I don't see the problem. The GC controller isn't well suited for FPS's anyway, IMO.
They could also mean Goldeneye: Rogue agent. But that wasn't too great and it was multiplatform.
PenguinMaster
10-10-2005, 06:12 PM
I would guess they are talking about either TimeSplitters or GoldenEye: Rogue Agent. Hey, they needed to make the list as long as possible... Rogue Agent was on GC as well, and TimeSplitters was only PS2 exclusive because the other systems weren't released yet. They could have thought of something better to say.
Morrigan Lover
10-10-2005, 06:13 PM
It's too late to copy the design for the Xbox 1.5, so MS will probably copy the Revo controller for the Xbox 2.
shipwreck
10-10-2005, 06:14 PM
It's too late to copy the design for the Xbox 1.5, so MS will probably copy the Revo controller for the Xbox 2.
Microsoft won't bother copying the Revo's controller. They are going after the mainstream market.
paz9x
10-10-2005, 06:29 PM
Edit- Wait, now that I reread the OP again, couldn't it be argued that the Rev. controller is actually a ripoff/continuation of the eyetoy cam.
how the fuck is that? thats like saying the camera is a ripoff of van gogh
RedvsBlue
10-10-2005, 06:32 PM
how the fuck is that? thats like saying the camera is a ripoff of van gogh
Because the eyetoy is used and was designed to be used specifically to register movement as a way to control video games. Sounds a hell of a lot like the idea, although not nearly as advanced, as the revo controller.
help1
10-10-2005, 06:36 PM
how the fuck is that? thats like saying the camera is a ripoff of van gogh
Eyecam senses movement... rev. controller senses movement but you have to hold it.
David85
10-10-2005, 06:40 PM
Sony and Microsoft are who have put gaming over into the mainstream. Nintendo, Atari, and Sega never could.
Of course because only 90% of American households had a Nintendo or SNES in them. But hell that's not mainstream. :roll:
dpatel
10-10-2005, 06:41 PM
how the fuck is that? thats like saying the camera is a ripoff of van gogh
its a similar concept. The rev controller is kinda like an evolution of the eyetoy.
RedvsBlue
10-10-2005, 06:41 PM
Of course because only 90% of American households had a Nintendo or SNES in them. But hell that's not mainstream. :roll:
90% where'd ya get that little tidbit from? Thin air or your ass? How do you cite that source again?
Pancake Rabbit
10-10-2005, 06:49 PM
Everyone copied the design of the dual shock
hohez
10-10-2005, 06:50 PM
he cites that source by it being a smart ass comment, and not meant to be taken completely literally.
really, a wand that is registered by light is hardly ripping off the revo controller.
If anything if this came out before Revo, it might make people even more excited for the Revo.
Hmmm this was decently entertaining, I can't wait for the big jesus real one to come out.
Because the eyetoy is used and was designed to be used specifically to register movement as a way to control video games. Sounds a hell of a lot like the idea, although not nearly as advanced, as the revo controller.
Sony invented the motion-sensing peripheral? Guess somebody better tell Thrustmaster...
http://geek.com/news/geeknews/2001july/gam20010726007018.htm
... and all the people who tried it before them.
The Revolution controller is about as similar to the Eyetoy as the Eyetoy is to the Gameboy camera ... or are we forgetting Nintendo was using that for face mapping and motion recognition back in the day?
If anyone is ripping off Sony, it's Microsoft.
"And with next-generation online motion-detection-enabled games, the Xbox Live Camera puts you entirely in the game and in control of the on-screen characters over Xbox Live."
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/peripheralsfactsheet.htm
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about this if I were Nintendo. If Sony supports this as well as they did their hard-drive, about six people will have one.
I call it payback for how Nintendo fucked them over to begin with back in the early 90s. If Nintendo's in last place, its their own fault. They had a partnership with Sony that would have made them huge but dropped them like a bad habbit and now they deserve to lose.
So you have a preference for video game companies based on your perception of their ethical behavior or lack thereof? How do you even manage to play videogames if that's the case? I mean, Sony has never lost any lawsuits for patent infringement in the past, right? That would just be unethical of saintly ol' Sony.
http://news.com.com/Sony+to+challenge+block+on+PS2+sales/2100-1047_3-5641924.html?tag=nl
And Microsoft? Nah, no anti-trust violations there.
http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/
That whole "Nintendo screwed Sony" sobstory is a lot of strum-und-drang over bullshit, basically.
LinkinPrime
10-10-2005, 07:37 PM
Awesome pic OP :)
evanft
10-10-2005, 07:40 PM
This thread sucks ass. The article is referring to something that has been mentioned by Sony before the Rev's controller unveiling.
Oh, and Sony didn't steal the third-party developers. Nintendo lost them by sticking with the cartridge format and high licensing fees.
TimPV3
10-10-2005, 07:49 PM
Since Sony would have had to come up with this in around January 04, I would have laughed if the patent was for a gyroscopic controller since that's what the rumor for the Revolution was at the time. I'm really not too excited to see the uninformed people see which of the 3 companies is stealing from who so I'm out of here.
This thread sucks ass. The article is referring to something that has been mentioned by Sony before the Rev's controller unveiling.
And frankly seems like apples and oranges in regards to the Rev controller, but welcome to the Internet. What's the line? "Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."
Dr Mario Kart
10-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Everyone copied the design of the dual shock
http://www.ntsc-uk.com/features/SnesWeekDay1/02.jpg
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/techno/ostra/game/photo/ps_1080.gif
RedvsBlue
10-10-2005, 10:30 PM
So you have a preference for video game companies based on your perception of their ethical behavior or lack thereof? How do you even manage to play videogames if that's the case? I mean, Sony has never lost any lawsuits for patent infringement in the past, right? That would just be unethical of saintly ol' Sony.
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/2562/nintendo0js.th.jpg (http://img447.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nintendo0js.jpg)
Plus my NES, SNES, and N64 that are at my parent's house. The only reason I don't have a GBA is because I sold it to get an SP. Yeah so as far as me being a Nintendo-hater? Not so much.
I ALWAYS own a Nintendo system within 6 months of its release. The only exception is the DS which took me 8 months to finally get. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I don't think they screwed themselves by not making good on their Sony partnership, furthermore, I think that they almost deserve to lose for this reason.
evanft
10-10-2005, 10:32 PM
http://www.ntsc-uk.com/features/SnesWeekDay1/02.jpg
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/techno/ostra/game/photo/ps_1080.gif
That's not a dual shock.
Dr Mario Kart
10-10-2005, 10:34 PM
That's not a dual shock.
right...but its the base of it. Just slap the sticks on there. It just makes for a better showing of resemblance.
bmulligan
10-12-2005, 02:12 AM
Here's an analog controller from 1983
http://www.1up.com/media?id=2303248
Here's a pretty good timeline too. I wouldn't give any of the game companies credit for their invention, though.
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3143627
GreenMonkey
10-12-2005, 02:30 AM
That's not a dual shock.
Does this make the evolution clearer?
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/snes.jpg
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/psx.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/N64-controller-white.jpg/250px-N64-controller-white.jpg
http://www.consolesandgadgets.com/catalog/images/dualshock.jpg
whoknows
10-12-2005, 02:35 AM
Sony isn't stupid enough to want Rare.
And I dont see how the Dualshock is a copy of the N64 controller or Snes controller. They are too different and thats that.
bmulligan
10-12-2005, 02:38 AM
This one's even better:
Videogame controller family tree (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/)
Strell
10-12-2005, 02:43 AM
If you cannot see the similarities between the SNES/N64 controllers and the PS/Dual Shock controllers, there is something very, very wrong with you.
GreenMonkey
10-12-2005, 02:46 AM
Good site bmulligan I used some of their images instead.
Sony isn't stupid enough to want Rare.
And I dont see how the Dualshock is a copy of the N64 controller or Snes controller. They are too different and thats that.
LOL.
The original sony controller is practically a SNES controller clone. Look at the first two. Buttons at same angle, same layout, even start/select. Sony made 2 shoulder buttons and shaped it differently, that's it.
The dual-analog came out after the n64 controller, apparently you weren't a gamer when the PS1 launched with the analog snes-clone controller or something??
Dual shock is just a Sony ps1 controller with a couple of analog sticks slapped on it, which immediately followed the n64 controller.
guardian_owl
10-12-2005, 03:02 AM
Somewhat OT :D but I will say that the pinnacle of the single stick design is the dreamcast's controller. Take the concept of the n64 controller, eliminating the redundant middle prong, and moving the stick up to next to the directional pad. The main weakness of the n64 controller is the inability to easily use the directional pad in conjunction with the analog stick. Then there was the inclusion of the VMU minature screen which is I guess you could say is a small precursor to the concept of two screens for the Nintendo DS, even if it wasn't that well utilized.
*end random tangent*
Dr Mario Kart
10-12-2005, 03:11 AM
Somewhat OT :D but I will say that the pinnacle of the single stick design is the dreamcast's controller. Take the concept of the n64 controller, eliminating the redundant middle prong, and moving the stick up to next to the directional pad. The main weakness of the n64 controller is the inability to easily use the directional pad in conjunction with the analog stick. Then there was the inclusion of the VMU minature screen which is I guess you could say is a small precursor to the concept of two screens for the Nintendo DS, even if it wasn't that well utilized.
*end random tangent*
But the whole cord sticking out from the side facing you, that was just weird.
guardian_owl
10-12-2005, 03:16 AM
But the whole cord sticking out from the side facing you, that was just weird.
What do you think that little indentation on the top, center of the back of the controller was for?
http://www.digital-joker.de/dchardware/Controller.jpg
fold the cord up, hook it in the slot (and it does stay in there) and there ya go, the cord comes out of the top for those who can't stand the cord coming out of the bottom ;)
Machikunas
10-12-2005, 03:28 AM
Wait, now that I reread the OP again, couldn't it be argued that the Rev. controller is actually a ripoff/continuation of the eyetoy cam.
Lame.
Graff^
10-12-2005, 03:30 AM
What do you think that little indentation on the top, center of the back of the controller was for?
http://www.digital-joker.de/dchardware/Controller.jpg
fold the cord up, hook it in the slot (and it does stay in there) and there ya go, the cord comes out of the top for those who can't stand the cord coming out of the bottom ;)
Holy crap, I never knew that! *scampers over to his Dreamcast and fastens all of the cables*
This one's even better:
Videogame controller family tree (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/)
Wow, what a great page - thanks.
Completely off topic here - but, you know, I had a Colecovision and played the thing like crazy before I lost interest in gaming (apparently this was just during this "crash" thing I have only recently read about - and I just thought I was growing up). What is wierd though is that I have NO MEMORY whatsoever of that bizarre Colecovision controller. I would have never picked that out of a lineup :D. I do remember having the steering wheel/pedal though.
I should STILL have all this stuff, but as happens with so many gamers, my Dad gave the sh*t away (without warning, and without asking me if I wanted it) a few years back... I had even sold my Atari to some kid for $50 and got the Colecovision Atari game player plug-in. Anyone remember that? :D. All gone now - all my Atari and Colecovision cartridges too (which I kept in perfect condition with boxes, etc).
Dogpatch
10-12-2005, 10:04 AM
What do you think that little indentation on the top, center of the back of the controller was for?
http://www.digital-joker.de/dchardware/Controller.jpg
fold the cord up, hook it in the slot (and it does stay in there) and there ya go, the cord comes out of the top for those who can't stand the cord coming out of the bottom ;)
:shock:
*looks at back of dreamcast controller in disbelief*
One of those little things that just slip on by. :)
jer7583
10-12-2005, 10:29 AM
Stupid Sony, the next generation is for Microsoft!
chickenhawk
10-12-2005, 10:47 AM
I love the controller debate. Fanboys unite!! :lol: It seems that controllers would be fairly similar and feed off of each other naturally. Hell, they are all supposed to play games (and many of the same games) right so who the fuck cares where a controllers design came from really?
Strell
10-12-2005, 11:43 AM
Stupid Sony, the next generation is for Microsoft!
Silly Rabbit, Trix are for kids!
bmulligan
10-12-2005, 11:55 AM
Does anybody know who made the headset for the NES that was a lightgun?
It had a veiwfinder and a microphone and you aimed with your eye and fired by talking into the mic ?
And as far as using movement as a controller, didn't the U-force thingy do that on the NES ? It was like the power glove without the glove.
uzumaki_star
10-12-2005, 12:01 PM
I love the controller debate. Fanboys unite!! :lol: It seems that controllers would be fairly similar and feed off of each other naturally. Hell, they are all supposed to play games (and many of the same games) right so who the fuck cares where a controllers design came from really?
My sentiments exactly. As long as they play games and don't hurt your hands I am all for everybody having similar designs.
Strell
10-12-2005, 12:02 PM
Don't forget about the Saturn 3-D controller with the analog thumbie. That came out before the N-64.
I thought that was like Sony's situation, where Sega saw the controller/Mario 64 demoes and quickly tried to mimic it as quick as possible, creating NiGHTS in the process?
No?
I mean I think it came out *before* the N64, but like, a month before, and even then didn't quite have the same full 3D experience as M64...
I could be wrong, that was a hazy time before I understood a lot of the industry. I actually remember telling my parents "we have to get the N64 when it launches because they are only making 250K units and I'm scared I won't get one."
Ahh, to be young. I'm still stupid, but to be young. Ahh.
Quackzilla
10-12-2005, 12:54 PM
Wow, these fanboys are really grasping.
Sony files a patent on a new eyetoy accessory before the unveiling of the Revolution controller, OMG SONY SPIES ARE STEALING FROM NINTENDO!
Fuck you, burn in hell. Never post again. That goes for all fanboys.
bmulligan
10-12-2005, 03:03 PM
I'm just glad someone stole the idea of a flush toilet so I can have one next to my bedroom. It gets cold in Michigan during the winter ...
MorPhiend
10-12-2005, 03:17 PM
I thought that was like Sony's situation, where Sega saw the controller/Mario 64 demoes and quickly tried to mimic it as quick as possible, creating NiGHTS in the process?
No?
I mean I think it came out *before* the N64, but like, a month before, and even then didn't quite have the same full 3D experience as M64...
I could be wrong, that was a hazy time before I understood a lot of the industry. I actually remember telling my parents "we have to get the N64 when it launches because they are only making 250K units and I'm scared I won't get one."
Ahh, to be young. I'm still stupid, but to be young. Ahh.No, you are correct. And that has been Nintendo's position with this controller. Show it too soon, someone will hurriedly mimic it in a bad way and call it their own before Nintendo's shows up on shelves. Then uninformed peons go around saying that Nintendo stole the idea again.
It is natural for the different companies to use the ideas of others, but when you have someone like Nintendo that innovates every idea they have every generation, it is even more natural to want to protect that and be able to be the first one who has it (even if the immitations are just lame attempts).
Someone said that analog was done before the N64. Yeah, sure it was. And it was done so badly that no one wanted to touch it again and it took thirteen years before someone like Nintendo tried (and succeeded) to do it right. Now it is a staple of videogames. Nintendo has said this themselves: the Revolution controller is old technology. But just like the analog stick and other things, they have figured out the right formula to make it actually work.
Look at Nintendo's controllers. Every single one is anywhere from quite a bit different from the previous, to not even close to the same. They change it up every time. And everytime it is a good change. And everytime someone else thinks it's a good change and uses it as well. So Nintendo changes again. (The only other company that remotely had their own ideas was Sega, but even they took their good ideas and threw some Nintendo flavor into it for an even better idea.) But this generation, we are going to see a complete paradigm shift, just as important as the cross pad or the analog stick, or maybe even more significant.
Notice the other companies' controllers. For the first time, Nintendo hasn't radically changed the controls with the GCN other than making it better suited for their own first party games and creating the Wavebird. And for the first time the other companies aren't copying Nintendo. And they aren't creating new control ideas. Their new controllers are exactly what their old ones were. The only thing Nintendo had that they could copy was wireless. But even M$ isn't making that standard, as they had originally claimed. I don't know, it just seems funny that every generation, the other companies borrow from Nintendo. Nintendo sits one out (their only innovation being better suited controls for their own games - obviously not duplicatable) and the new generation has no additions to the control schemes. Rest assured, their will be Revolution-like controls just around the corner. There is no doubt.
BTW: Quackzilla, you really should be the last person on earth to ever whine about fanboys. So take your own advice,as you seem so willing to dish it out.;)
EDIT: Oh and someone mentioned we should try the Rev and PS3 controllers before judging. Well, there was a batarang controller for Sony's machine years ago. It sucked. It sold like poop. The feel was just as unusable as it would seem, just seeing the thing. It may not be the exact same size or whatever excuse you may want to come up with, but the fact is that the shape is apparently just another "design feature" that developers and consumers will have to get used to, toquote Kutaragi...:roll:
evanft
10-12-2005, 03:26 PM
I ain't readin' all dat shit.
shipwreck
10-12-2005, 03:31 PM
It comes down to this: Sony can hire better Ninjas than Nintendo can, so naturally they will be able to quickly infiltrate Nintendo's headquarters and steal any master plans that are laying about.
MorPhiend
10-12-2005, 03:39 PM
It comes down to this: Sony can hire better Ninjas than Nintendo can, so naturally they will be able to quickly infiltrate Nintendo's headquarters and steal any master plans that are laying about.
True 'dat.
Spoon_si
10-12-2005, 03:51 PM
Sony has been stealing from Nintendo for years.... what else is new...
Strell
10-12-2005, 04:53 PM
Someone said that analog was done before the N64. Yeah, sure it was. And it was done so badly that no one wanted to touch it again and it took thirteen years before someone like Nintendo tried (and succeeded) to do it right.
Ahh, I've heard this before and I'm not arguing against it, but I do have a question. When people say "Nintendo stole the analog from past controllers," are they referring to consoles like the Colecovision and the like? Because if they are, I have something to ask. Did those machines have *true* analog support? Like, if you tilted more steeply, your character moved faster? Could you execute honest 360 degree movement, and not just an aborted 8-way direction? Also, were they able to be moved by thumb, or was it those big monstrosities where you had to use your entire hand for movement? Creating the situation where you had to level the controller with your other hand, or balance it against your chest/legs/thighs/table/etc?
I mean, I luvs me some Colecovision (I have like 3 of them), but I get the feeling that people say Nintendo ripped off that generation of games with the analog, only to feel that the capability offered by the N64's controller completely outclassed anything offered at that time.
Just a thought. Would appreciate some input on this.
Zoglog
10-12-2005, 04:55 PM
This one's even better:
Videogame controller family tree (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/)
That tree is obviously created by a nintendo fanboy. pathetic and useless.
vietgurl
10-12-2005, 09:01 PM
I'm gonna get killed for saying this but if Nintendo closed down, I really wouldn't care.
*runs away*
RedvsBlue
10-12-2005, 09:24 PM
I love the controller debate. Fanboys unite!! :lol: It seems that controllers would be fairly similar and feed off of each other naturally. Hell, they are all supposed to play games (and many of the same games) right so who the fuck cares where a controllers design came from really?
This is exactly what I was trying to say when I said the Rev controller was a ripoff of the eye toy. It was an attempt to point out that everyone takes ideas from others and uses them. NO ONE company can claim they never got an idea from other companies. Vibration, wireless, motion sensing, analog sticks, they've all been some kind of enhancement of another's idea.
Here's the newsflash: EVERY COMPANY STEALS
Lame.
Read above post to understand my meaning and next time, don't view everything so narrowly. You read my post as you WANTED to read my post, anti-Nintendo. Which I also addressed in my post about owning every Nintendo console.
I'm gonna get killed for saying this but if Nintendo closed down, I really wouldn't care.
*runs away*
Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with you a little bit. Like I said earlier, if they fail, which they pretty much have since N64, its their own fault for screwing their deal with Sony. If they had stayed partnered with Sony they would have created a gaming company that no one could have touched, instead, they're stuck now as strictly b-list.
Everyone acts like if Nintendo falls flat on their face that it will spell the end of innovative games. Sorry but I just don't see game innovation dying with Nintendo. Not to mention the fact that they would never completely fail, if nothing else they'd go the way of Atari and Sega and become strictly a game publisher and drop out of the console market. In fact, I think the only reason that they're staying in the console market anymore is purely out of pride.
doraemonkerpal
10-12-2005, 09:25 PM
I'm gonna get killed for saying this but if Nintendo closed down, I really wouldn't care.
*runs away*
:error:
eurenix
10-12-2005, 09:36 PM
This one's even better:
Videogame controller family tree (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/)
Looking through this, I think the Nintendo MAX got a bad rap. There is simply no way that it is the end of the line. I mean really, look at the damn thing! Just add psuedo-analog to it, and you have a really short thumb stick. It should really be given status as an ancester to the N64 controller.
Granted, the thing kind of sucked as a digital pad, but I remember thinking that something about the design felt right. Or perhaps that was simply internal validation for a bad purchase.
Offhand, during the 16bit era, did anyone else have one of those controllers where the d-pad was some kind of touchpad? Can anyone think of a more horrendous design choice than putting bumps on a touchpad?
Moxio
10-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Am I the only one who's pissed as hell at Sony? Damn they just kep screwing up, I wish their next-gen system didn't have such support so they'd just die the fuck off.
Quackzilla
10-12-2005, 09:43 PM
BTW: Quackzilla, you really should be the last person on earth to ever whine about fanboys. So take your own advice,as you seem so willing to dish it out.;)
You:
http://www.cinemorgue.com/orlytepper.jpg
guardian_owl
10-12-2005, 10:02 PM
I'm gonna get killed for saying this but if Nintendo closed down, I really wouldn't care.
*runs away*
I enjoy their portable systems, but I could care less if they stop making their own home console.
Rusty Ghia
10-12-2005, 10:08 PM
Does anybody know who made the headset for the NES that was a lightgun?
It had a veiwfinder and a microphone and you aimed with your eye and fired by talking into the mic ?
And as far as using movement as a controller, didn't the U-force thingy do that on the NES ? It was like the power glove without the glove.
You're thinking of the Konami LaserScope. And the U-Force was useless.
See here for more:
http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/default.php
zionoverfire
10-12-2005, 10:15 PM
I enjoy their portable systems, but I could care less if they stop making their own home console.
That's my feeling, despite my original dislike of the DS concept I've enjoyed my few hours with it much more than I ever did with my GC.
Strell
10-12-2005, 11:29 PM
Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with you a little bit. Like I said earlier, if they fail, which they pretty much have since N64, its their own fault for screwing their deal with Sony. If they had stayed partnered with Sony they would have created a gaming company that no one could have touched, instead, they're stuck now as strictly b-list.
Everyone acts like if Nintendo falls flat on their face that it will spell the end of innovative games. Sorry but I just don't see game innovation dying with Nintendo. Not to mention the fact that they would never completely fail, if nothing else they'd go the way of Atari and Sega and become strictly a game publisher and drop out of the console market. In fact, I think the only reason that they're staying in the console market anymore is purely out of pride.
I have to attack some things here, not so much out of subjective disagreement but on factual basis.
The entire "Nintendo has failed since the N64" argument is dead. It always has been. Did they beat Sony? No. Did they fail? No. Sega failed, 3DO failed, Atari failed, etc etc etc, on down the line. Nintendo still pulls in a profit, continues to do so on this generation - again, something neither MS or Sony can say - will do so on the next generation, and so on. This also factors into the "purely for pride" comment. I guess if I was only grossing a few billion in profit a year in profit, I'd want to stay in "purely for pride" as well.
"Strictly b-list" is harsh because that implies a lot of things that honestly cannot be ascribed to Nintendo at all, but I'm not going to list them.
Obviously I can't argue the Sony deal beacuse the history there speaks for itself.
Given all of that, you cannot argue that innovation would continue at the pace Nintendo forces it to through the home market. And what better way to prove this than to look at the next generation of systems - 3 systems, 2 that will bring nothing to the industry, and a third taking a brazen leap into the unknown (something that will, undoubtedly, be copied in the next generation). I could bear with your comment a little better if I felt like either MS or Sony did even something a little different, but we all know that's not the case (hence there's no reason to discuss it futher).
Do I think it would kill innnovation totally? Of course not. It's easy to point out games that Nintendo didn't think up from other companies - music from Konami, survival horror from Capcom, Katamari Damacy, etc etc. The list is long. I can't argue against it. I'd look ridiculous.
But can people honestly say Nintendo isn't the company most responsible for innovating? They have created dozens of genres, mascots, gameplay devices, controllers, interfaces, and everything, and ALL of it has been mercilessly copied over and over and over and over and over. Every game you look at today has roots to a million different htings, and the majority of them came straight from Nintendo. I'm not going to name them or point them out because I don't have the capability, time, or resources. And if you honestly can't agree to that, there is something very, very wrong with you.
If Nintendo died, I don't know what the gaming world would be like. In all honesty I am really sick of hearing people talk about them as if they are an inconsequential company. It's ludicrious, it always has been. Nolan Bushnell isn't the big designer in the world, but it would be idiotic to say "if he didn't do it, someone else would have," and thats the feeling I get from all the "Nintendo isn't that great" posts. Granted I know some of the posts in that vein aren't strictly anti-Nintendo, but people, if you think things would occur naturally, you need to sit down and look at the industry we're talking about. There's no natural progression here. It's based purely on what gets put into it. We're not sitting around waiting for some developer to stumble onto something purely because...what, he dug it up in the ground? Deciphered some old runes found in a cave in the middle of nowhere?
It's an industry based purely, purely, on the minds of people within it, and the hope that some of them have odd twitches in them that end up being revolutionary gaming bliss.
FriskyTanuki
10-13-2005, 12:41 AM
I have to attack some things here, not so much out of subjective disagreement but on factual basis.
The entire "Nintendo has failed since the N64" argument is dead. It always has been. Did they beat Sony? No. Did they fail? No. Sega failed, 3DO failed, Atari failed, etc etc etc, on down the line. Nintendo still pulls in a profit, continues to do so on this generation - again, something neither MS or Sony can say - will do so on the next generation, and so on. This also factors into the "purely for pride" comment. I guess if I was only grossing a few billion in profit a year in profit, I'd want to stay in "purely for pride" as well.
"Strictly b-list" is harsh because that implies a lot of things that honestly cannot be ascribed to Nintendo at all, but I'm not going to list them.
Obviously I can't argue the Sony deal beacuse the history there speaks for itself.
I agree with this whole part. Because Nintendo makes a lot of profit off of their hardware and games that being 3rd doesn't bother them. They'd like to be first, but if that means having to lose money, they'd rather not take the risk.
Given all of that, you cannot argue that innovation would continue at the pace Nintendo forces it to through the home market. And what better way to prove this than to look at the next generation of systems - 3 systems, 2 that will bring nothing to the industry, and a third taking a brazen leap into the unknown (something that will, undoubtedly, be copied in the next generation). I could bear with your comment a little better if I felt like either MS or Sony did even something a little different, but we all know that's not the case (hence there's no reason to discuss it futher).
Here's where I have a problem. 2 systems that bring nothing to the industry? That's just a lie based off of what you can see right now. While I agree that purely from what games are looking to come out it may not seem much different, but it's more about that the designers now have all the power they need to create the games they want. I've seen numerous times where hardware limitations came into play when designing a game. Now the only challenge is time to get all they can out of the hardware. The Xbox 360 and PS3 may not seem innovative right now, but it's all about what the developers can do with their new kits. Give it time.
Do I think it would kill innnovation totally? Of course not. It's easy to point out games that Nintendo didn't think up from other companies - music from Konami, survival horror from Capcom, Katamari Damacy, etc etc. The list is long. I can't argue against it. I'd look ridiculous.
I agree here. Nintendo isn't the only innovator in the gaming field. Many companies have innovated in their genres, games, etc.
But can people honestly say Nintendo isn't the company most responsible for innovating? They have created dozens of genres, mascots, gameplay devices, controllers, interfaces, and everything, and ALL of it has been mercilessly copied over and over and over and over and over. Every game you look at today has roots to a million different htings, and the majority of them came straight from Nintendo. I'm not going to name them or point them out because I don't have the capability, time, or resources. And if you honestly can't agree to that, there is something very, very wrong with you.
Nintendo has innovated a lot, that comes with being in the game early on. Hell, Nolan Bushnell and Atari constantly innovated to stay ahead of the competition that literally bought their cabinets to find out how they made the game and then make their own versions since Atari used off the shelf parts. It's been around for over 30 years, so it really shouldn't be the horrible atrocity that it seems to be today.
If Nintendo died, I don't know what the gaming world would be like. In all honesty I am really sick of hearing people talk about them as if they are an inconsequential company. It's ludicrious, it always has been. Nolan Bushnell isn't the big designer in the world, but it would be idiotic to say "if he didn't do it, someone else would have," and thats the feeling I get from all the "Nintendo isn't that great" posts. Granted I know some of the posts in that vein aren't strictly anti-Nintendo, but people, if you think things would occur naturally, you need to sit down and look at the industry we're talking about. There's no natural progression here. It's based purely on what gets put into it. We're not sitting around waiting for some developer to stumble onto something purely because...what, he dug it up in the ground? Deciphered some old runes found in a cave in the middle of nowhere?
Agreed. There's so many scenarios that could've played out that would probably change things greatly or even kill of the industry early on. We should be lucky that things have gone well and look forward to how things change in the future.
It's an industry based purely, purely, on the minds of people within it, and the hope that some of them have odd twitches in them that end up being revolutionary gaming bliss.
Exactly, it's all about how the designers, programmers, and artists can get their ideas working on the systems and make it fun. There are many great minds around now and there should be many to come.
s3v3n777
10-13-2005, 02:09 AM
I found a pretty interesting little article on the net. I found 2 articles saying the same thing, but this one has graphs...and we all know graphs are better look at. If you guys can get through the article, kudos. It's pretty long, but I found it to be incredibly interesting, and it might shut a couple of the Nintendo nay-sayers.
MorPhiend
10-14-2005, 02:33 PM
ummm... You forgot to give a link...:lol: You:
http://www.cinemorgue.com/orlytepper.jpg
:cry:
psiufoxx2
10-14-2005, 03:56 PM
it’s either a case of “great minds…” or they had their AIBO spies infiltrate Nintendo’s Kyoto headquarters.
Lovin it!