Will X360's HDD be treated as an add-on?

[electrictroy]

I think the answer is "yes". Most people (being the typical clueless customers) will be buying the $100 cheaper, non-HDD version, and that's who game makers will target - people w/o hard drives.


Result : The X360's hard drive will end up like the PS2's hard drive or N64's ram expansion - barely-used.

troy

[psiufoxx2]

The current-gen Xbox HD was barely used by Developers - it was mainly used by consumers, to save games, store music, download game updates/patches, download Xbox Live updates, and occasionally to hack and run Linux. There were a very select few game developers who used the HD as part of their game, as Blinx did (and even that game used it in a limited way).

I'm not sure console gaming should be HD focused though, or we may see more "typical installation procedures" like PC gamers experience.

[111111]

i've thought about it too actually about past hard drives that you had to buy. but i think this one's different. imo it should sell well. Not SUPER well but good enough amount. I say this because you need the hard drive to play xbox 1 games.

[munch]

If i were buying a 360 at launch i would definitely be buying the HDD model. It doesn't make sense not to.

[Jetrangers00]

the HDD lets you save games, if you want to play or download things from xbox live you will need it. Also, the only way one can play xbox 1 games on the 360 is from the HDD

[shipwreck]

As others have already pointed out, it's not nearly as useless as the PS2 hard drive. You can use it as a save device, it stores downloaded content (including patches, demos, and items from the marketplace), and it allows you to play some original Xbox games. It will also be used by developers to speed up load times (Oblivian is already doing this). In the future, I would not be surprised to see games that come out that require you to have the hard drive (Final Fantasy XI for example). Once developers see that the overwhelming number of Xbox 360's sold have the hard drive, they will start developing games to take advantage of it if they feel their games will be better by doing so.

[electrictroy]

the HDD lets you save games, if you want to play or download things from xbox live you will need it. Also, the only way one can play xbox 1 games on the 360 is from the HDD


You're serious?!?!? That's incredibly stupid. I don't need a hard drive to play my old PS1/2 or GC games on the PS3/Revolution. Microsoft was dumb to require a HDD for backwards-compatibility.

troy

[Ikohn4ever]

You're serious?!?!? That's incredibly stupid. I don't need a hard drive to play my old PS1/2 or GC games on the PS3/Revolution. Microsoft was dumb to require a HDD for backwards-compatibility.

troy


well i believe the revolution has internal flash memory to store old school games

[neudog]

Though the hard drives are under utilized I would still rather have one, especially for a microsoft product. Just do the math: 1 x xbox360 HD=$100 (1GB+ of space), 5 x PS2 Memory Cards=$100 (40mb of space); which do you prefer. Now granted I don't know the specs on the PS3 "save" media, but $100 for an external/add-on HD just for saves isn't bad.

[pimpinc333]

I think it wil be a whole lot different since the ram expansion and HDD for the N64 and ps2 were introduced mid-life of the console. This is coming out right away and there are gonna be persk to have one like playing xbox games, mad saves, xbox live patches, my music, anyhting I wanna put on it, and all the xbox live marketplace downloads.

I really wish that Microsoft would have rethought the whole idea of the HDD. I mean even though IMO it will be used plenty, it could have been better since the developers could utilize the HDD in every aspect in the game. Either way I can't wait for this system to launch.

[Puffa469]

I think even offering a 'base' version of the console without a harddrive is a huge mistake. They feel that this cheaper version will entice the 'casual' gamer. But I highly doubt that a 'casual' gamer is going to be buying a 360 at launch for $300. Launch windows for consoles are almost exclusively the realm of early adopters, and hardcore gamers.


M$ estimates that 80% of the 360's sold at launch will be be the premium version. They also indicated that some retailers have said that they dont want ANY of the $300 base consoles this launch. If thats true then why bother with the crippled base version at all?
The only people who will buy that version this holiday season will be dumb parents, and people who walk into a store to find that they only have the crippled version left in stock. I can actually see some kid crying on christmas morning cos his parents got him the base version 360, and he cant save his progress on Gothan Racing 3...

I think this move on Microsofts part will only serve to alienate developers, and confuse customers this holiday season.

[pimpinc333]

I think even offering a 'base' version of the console without a harddrive is a huge mistake. They feel that this cheaper version will entice the 'casual' gamer. But I highly doubt that a 'casual' gamer is going to be buying a 360 at launch for $300. Launch windows for consoles are almost exclusively the realm of early adopters, and hardcore gamers.


M$ estimates that 80% of the 360's sold at launch will be be the premium version. They also indicated that some retailers have said that they dont want ANY of the $300 base consoles this launch. If thats true then why bother with the crippled base version at all?
The only people who will buy that version this holiday season will be dumb parents, and people who walk into a store to find that they only have the crippled version left in stock. I can actually see some kid crying on christmas morning cos his parents got him the base version 360, and he cant save his progress on Gothan Racing 3...

I think this move on Microsofts part will only serve to alienate developers, and confuse customers this holiday season.

Yep that sounds about right. Also the whole kid crying on Chritmas morning thing is funny. Good Post.

[Villy]

You're serious?!?!? That's incredibly stupid. I don't need a hard drive to play my old PS1/2 or GC games on the PS3/Revolution. Microsoft was dumb to require a HDD for backwards-compatibility.

troy

MS changed video card manufacturers so in order to play the old games, the HDD is required to store the emulator.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Local Media Play (Where my 360 is pre-ordered.) will not be getting ANY core systems. They refuse to stock them.

1 mall EB Games example, 150+ preorders, 2 are for the core system. Two Gamestops I've spoken to? 3 and 1 core system preordered out of a combined 400+ orders.

The core system is a complete joke and anyone that gets one is dumb as dirt. You're going to see 90-95% of the market settle on the full 360 package.

Your analogy to the PS2 HDD and N64 memory pack is completely inaccurate. I know you want to appear to be an armchair business analyst and industry expert but you're flat out wrong.

[mykevermin]

The core system is a complete joke and anyone that gets one is dumb as dirt. You're going to see 90-95% of the market settle on the full 360 package.

The legitimate fear of many, however, is that game developers (aside from your FFXI-types) must program for 100% of the 360 market, to the detriment of the 95%.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

That 5-10% is going to get screwed like nobody's business. Within two years full HDD featured titles will be the norm and core users/buyers won't even be considered.

When MMO games like Huxley and who knows what else start appearing those core buyers will have to break down and buy the damn thing (HDD) if they want to keep enjoying the best games on the system.

[mykevermin]

That 5-10% is going to get screwed like nobody's business. Within two years full HDD featured titles will be the norm and core users/buyers won't even be considered.

When MMO games like Huxley and who knows what else start appearing those core buyers will have to break down and buy the damn thing (HDD) if they want to keep enjoying the best games on the system.

Is there a historical precedent for your expectations? I suppose you can't compare console generations, given technology and what is considered a "game" today versus 10-20 years ago; however, I'm afraid that MS wants to default to the lowest common denominator for compatibility (that being the core user); it's essentially the same concept that wide publishers use when releasing titles simultaneously on all three consoles (Splinter Cell notwithstanding). Does the average EA Sports title (or Tony Hawk title, or fill in the blank) strain the Xbox as much as it does the PS2 or GC? Companies are reluctant to improve titles to take advantage of each console's hardware nuances.

The other issue is compatibility; it's being broached a little bit this gen (PSO for Xbox requiring live, for instance). However, the very notion of consoles implies an assured compatibility with anything that bears its name on it, right? Meh, perhaps I'm wrong; network adapter and HDD this gen, N64 expansion pak last gen, and (possibly) 32X and Sega CD before that. Fuck, what do I know, I'm just procrastinating?

[Zoglog]

the HD is used to Cacheing too people

[mykevermin]

the HD is used to Cacheing too people

http://www.fallingstar.net/awakened/entries/pics/chopstick4.jpg

[62t]

The current-gen Xbox HD was barely used by Developers - it was mainly used by consumers, to save games, store music, download game updates/patches, download Xbox Live updates, and occasionally to hack and run Linux. There were a very select few game developers who used the HD as part of their game, as Blinx did (and even that game used it in a limited way).

I'm not sure console gaming should be HD focused though, or we may see more "typical installation procedures" like PC gamers experience.
The HD is used to reduce load time on many games, and it will be sad if fewer developer use it.

[Zoglog]

http://www.fallingstar.net/awakened/entries/pics/chopstick4.jpg
http://packy.dardan.com/walky/albums/album11/ach.thumb.jpg

[electrictroy]

1 x xbox360 HD=$100 (1GB+ of space), 5 x PS2 Memory Cards=$100 (40mb of space); which do you prefer.

Neither. I prefer:

1 PS2 card, on sale = $20. And it's not even one-quarter full yet (mainly because I delete the old trash). I see no reason to spend $100 to store saves when $20 is better.

Yes, I'm a cheapass. ;-)

troy

[electrictroy]

Your analogy to the PS2 HDD and N64 memory pack is completely inaccurate. I know you want to appear to be an armchair business analyst and industry expert but you're flat out wrong.

Where the hell did that ad hominem attack come from??? I never said I was a "business analyst". Strawman argument.

I'm just a 30-year gamer expressing an opinion. That's all.




BTW, someone said the HDD can be used for caching to save load time. True. But I don't think it's worth working an extra ~10 hours to earn the $80 money, to buy the HDD add-on, just to save 5 seconds load time. 10 hours wasted - 5 seconds saved = messed-up (imho).


troy

[PittsburghAfterDark]

If you're 30 years old and making $8 an hour....

I just feel sorry for you.

[mykevermin]

If you're 30 years old and making $8 an hour....

I just feel sorry for you.

He's a thirty-year gamer, not thirty years old. C'mon, PAD. You're a financial advisor, I shouldn't have to point out the mathematics to you. ;)

[PittsburghAfterDark]

But I don't think it's worth working an extra ~10 hours to earn the $80 money, to buy the HDD add-on, just to save 5 seconds load time.

Work for 10 hours to earn $80= $8 per hour.

[mykevermin]

I was talking about his age, not his wage. I could figure out the 10 hours/$80 part.

[electrictroy]

If you're 30 years old and making $8 an hour.... I just feel sorry for you.


Strawman argument. I never made that claim. I was calculating $8/hour as the "typical wage" for most of the teenagers/college kids on this forum.

To repeat what I said:
- savecard = ~$20
- hdd save = $100
- hdd lets you cache data and reduce load time

However at ~$8 an hour, you'd have to work ~10 hours to earn that extra $80 to buy that HDD. 10 hours wasted - 5 seconds saved = poor choice (imho).




Oh, and I've been gaming ever since 1977. So almost 30 years. Hence the phrase "30-year gamer".

troy

[Kfoster1979]

Strawman argument. I never made that claim. I was calculating $8/hour as the "typical wage" for most of the teenagers/college kids on this forum.

To repeat what I said:
- savecard = ~$20
- hdd save = $100
- hdd lets you cache data and reduce load time

However at ~$8 an hour, you'd have to work ~10 hours to earn that extra $80 to buy that HDD. 10 hours wasted - 5 seconds saved = poor choice (imho).




Oh, and I've been gaming ever since 1977. So almost 30 years. Hence the phrase "30-year gamer".

troy


But you forget the Xbox 360 Memory Card is 40.00. Its also something you will have to buy if you buy the Core System. So How about you Pony up and pay the Extra 60.00 Bucks and get the HDD(100.00), Wireless Controler(50.00), HD Cables(40.00), Live Headset (20.00), Media Remote (30.00) ... Thats 240.00 worth of Good swag for what an EXtra 60.00 your going to spend on the Core and Mem Card..

MS yes has two SKU's but really what system are they Telling you to buy. And I have no doubt in my mind that after the First 6 months or so the Core system will be no more. There only Doing this to make you think you have an option and that there being nice by haveing a cheaper system.

[VanillaGorilla]

I think the answer is "yes". Most people (being the typical clueless customers) will be buying the $100 cheaper, non-HDD version, and that's who game makers will target - people w/o hard drives.


Result : The X360's hard drive will end up like the PS2's hard drive or N64's ram expansion - barely-used.

troy

You couldn't be more wrong. With the expanses in Xbox Live, with downloadable game trailers and game demos, along with the fact that most gamers are going to buy the standard version with the HD included, the HD will be supported. To think that most people are "clueless customers" is just plain wrong. Most people who are willing to spend big money on a new console won't mind paying the extra $100 to get the HD and all the other pack ins, plus, those value seeking consumers will want the backwards compatibility that you can only get with the HD. Comparing MS's stance on the 360's hard drive with Sony's stance on the PS2 hard drive is bunk.

[VanillaGorilla]

Strawman argument. I never made that claim. I was calculating $8/hour as the "typical wage" for most of the teenagers/college kids on this forum.

To repeat what I said:
- savecard = ~$20
- hdd save = $100
- hdd lets you cache data and reduce load time

However at ~$8 an hour, you'd have to work ~10 hours to earn that extra $80 to buy that HDD. 10 hours wasted - 5 seconds saved = poor choice (imho).




Oh, and I've been gaming ever since 1977. So almost 30 years. Hence the phrase "30-year gamer".

troy

You make it seem like faster load times is the only thing you'll get with the hard drive. Let's revise your little formula:

10 hours of work + Ability to download game demos, trailers, custom soundtracks for every game, faster load times, backwards compatibility = Good bargain

[elwood731]

You make it seem like faster load times is the only thing you'll get with the hard drive. Let's revise your little formula:

10 hours of work + Ability to download game demos, trailers, custom soundtracks for every game, faster load times, backwards compatibility = Good bargain
True, but let's also remember that there are still many people who have no use for these features. Why? Because they still lack broadband. For them, I can see the Core system making sense. Otherwise? No, it doesn't make much sense.

[VanillaGorilla]

True, but let's also remember that there are still many people who have no use for these features. Why? Because they still lack broadband. For them, I can see the Core system making sense. Otherwise? No, it doesn't make much sense.
You don't need broadband for backwards compatibility or for custom soundtracks. Or even for the game demos, since you can bring your HD to game retailers like EB and GameStop and get the demos from the kiosks there.

And the HD still makes sense, since a regular memory card is going to be what, $40? Eh, maybe I just don't get it because I already have my 360 paid for.

[Atherius]

Wow...memory price war...and I kind of agree with both sides...yeah cheaper to go card and drive's not used that much...but what's seriously crazy is M$ must be trying to make back some percentage points on the Margin, or the retail store is....Last time I checked, for $100 I could get at least an 80gb hard drive...ok ok 360 drive is a little more special than the standard drive...but still 20 gb for $100...that's insane... unless you go the bundle route...which they throw in everything but the kitchen sink for $100.

Perhaps...and this is just a guess...M$ has been educating retailers with all the schtick to throw at newb customers...so when Joe non-hardcore gamer comes in... and he sees 1 XBOX for $300 that is a pretty deflated package... he is quickly met with but the bundle comes with everything and is just $100 more...or 3 madden 06 game trades...or whatever. I mean it makes sense... at least in my house...if i can manage convincing the woman that a $300 purchase is ok...I may just be praised for find a bargain with all kinds of extras for $100 more...then again who am I kidding... this purchase will be a covert operation.

[electrictroy]

You make it seem like faster load times is the only thing you'll get with the hard drive. Let's revise your little formula:

10 hours of work + Ability to download game demos, trailers, custom soundtracks for every game, faster load times, backwards compatibility = Good bargain


No offense intended but when I saw that sentence I read, "10 hours of work + downloading trash, trash, and more trash". (1) I have no interest in that stuff. And (2) a lot of that stuff like demos/trailers are available for FREE via my PC connection.

So for me, if I was a typical teen earning ~$8 an hour, the equation is still 10 hours of work - 5 seconds saved loading a game = Not a good decision.






And backwards-compatibility? I still think it's ridiculous that Microsoft requires a hard drive to play old Xbox games. The PS3's emulator will be burned directly to a ROM. Ditto the Nintendo Revolution. No need for a hard drive.

I think Microsoft is just trying to recapture the millions they lost via selling Xbox at $150 when it cost $300 to build. (imho) So now they're cutting corners. Like not including the emulator on the base model.

troy

[Kfoster1979]

And backwards-compatibility? I still think it's ridiculous that Microsoft requires a hard drive to play old Xbox games. The PS3's emulator will be burned directly to a ROM. Ditto the Nintendo Revolution. No need for a hard drive.

I think Microsoft is just trying to recapture the millions they lost via selling Xbox at $150 when it cost $300 to build. (imho) So now they're cutting corners. Like not including the emulator on the base model.

troy

Every Manufacturer takes a hit on the Hardware whats your point... And they Lost 4 Billion on Xbox so I dont think M$ cares, they want to win the next gen so bad there going to do what it takes and by winning I mean installed base not $$$$$.

[RelentlessRolento]

I see the HDD's full potential not being with games, but strictly online useage. Live will be twice as good wtih a HDD, and may leave alot of non-HDD buyers out to bite the dust.

Then again, I have little interest in the system, though I hope it a good launch as well as life.

[electrictroy]

I think Microsoft is just trying to recapture the millions they lost via selling Xbox at $150 when it cost $300 to build. (imho) So now they're cutting corners. Like not including the emulator on the base model as a ROM chip.
Every Manufacturer takes a hit on the Hardware whats your point... And they Lost 4 Billion on Xbox so I dont think M$ cares, they want to win the next gen so bad there going to do what it takes and by winning I mean installed base not $$$$$.


I *told* you my point. Can't you read?!?!? "I think Microsoft is just trying to recapture the millions they lost ..... Like not including the emulator on the base model as a ROM chip.... [like Sony/Nintendo are doing]."



As for other manufacturers, they do NOT lose money. Sony breaks even (PS2 costs $100 & sells wholesale $100). Nintendo actually earns a small profit off their Cube sales.

Microsoft is the only company reporting "millions lost" because their Xbox costs ~double to build than they collect from sales.

troy

[Morpheus]

I think you're forgetting about the Japanese region. That's a 100% attach rate for the HDD in that region. We all know who Japanese developers cater their tastes to and that's their own brethren. I think we'll see more titles from Japan that require the HDD (Ex: FF XI).

Don't forget about Oblivion. The HDD is recommended to get the fullest experience in Oblivion from the developers.

Microsoft requires all games to have customizable soundtracks.

Plus, what the others in this post have already mentioned about the HDD. Its obvious the 360's HDD won't come anywhere near as useless as the PS2 HDD.

[Kfoster1979]

I *told* you my point. Can't you read?!?!? "I think Microsoft is just trying to recapture the millions they lost ..... Like not including the emulator on the base model as a ROM chip.... [like Sony/Nintendo are doing]."



As for other manufacturers, they do NOT lose money. Sony breaks even (PS2 costs $100 & sells wholesale $100). Nintendo actually earns a small profit off their Cube sales.

Microsoft is the only company reporting "millions lost" because their Xbox costs ~double to build than they collect from sales.

troy

I apologize, I should have said All manufacturers lose at the beginning of the life cycle. Ps2 and the Cube are just now breaking even adn maybe even a slight profit of a few bucks. But yet I still dont see it the premium 360 still has well over 200.00 of extras. If you take the fact that both will cost the same to manufactur (I have read 325-375 per unit) so theres is a loss in the core and add the extras to the premium they will take a loss on that also..

[electrictroy]

Okay, but that wasn't reallly my point. -----> You should be able to play old Xbox games w/o needing a hard drive. PS3/Revolution don't need a ~$100 hdd to play older games. Why should the X360? That's just pure laziness, or more likely reducing cost, on the part of Microsoft.

troy

[goatindaruffness]

Strawman argument. I never made that claim. I was calculating $8/hour as the "typical wage" for most of the teenagers/college kids on this forum.


I make about 15 an hour and it takes me almost 10 hours to make 80 bucks, have you ever heard of... TAXES???
But on another point, the 5 seconds you save, over 5 years, every minute of your gaming, will equal more than 10 hours, much more...
You're trying to do math, and you aren't taking anything into consideration, it just doesn't work that way...
If you want to do math in any form, you have to consider every available value that you are aware of, and still allow for variables, that's the whole point of math, so please don't do it if you don't know how...
Finally, there has already been 4 or 5 benefits of the harddrive explained in this thread, cache was only ONE...
I believe it's worth the extra money, as do 95% of people evidently...
I also don't think the core set should've even been considered, but then I'd be doing your math...
-Goatman

[bostonfrontier]

How would yu use Xbox Live without a harddrive?

[Kfoster1979]

Okay, but that wasn't reallly my point. -----> You should be able to play old Xbox games w/o needing a hard drive. PS3/Revolution don't need a ~$100 hdd to play older games. Why should the X360? That's just pure laziness, or more likely reducing cost, on the part of Microsoft.

troy


I get that I really do but don't tell me you think you not paying extra for the Backwards on the PS3. A Bluray drive is completely different form the Standard CD/DVD Laser there will be extra cost to the consumer just not as outward. Also the REVO will have Downloads that you will pay for them there not free.

[RelentlessRolento]

I think the requirment for the HDD for backwards compatability is due to the graphics cards of the Xbox and the 360 being different... the HDD runs the emulator supposedly.

[62t]

I think the requirment for the HDD for backwards compatability is due to the graphics cards of the Xbox and the 360 being different... the HDD runs the emulator supposedly.
just about every single xbox game needs the HD

[howlinmad]

This time next year, the core system will be considered a bad idea, and will be tough to come by. Yes, I pulled this straight out of my ass, but I think even stupid consumers will eventually figure this one out. Either on their own, or by word of mouth.

Let's see....I can spend XX amount for 1 memory card, or roughly 50-60 more(?) for more save space than I will probably ever use. And that's just if devs never use it for anything but saves. Mark my words, that's not going to last long either.

I don't know about many of you, but one memory card won't hold my saves, two won't. Hell, I won't even use up the replacement warranty before it runs out next month because my XBox *occasionally* locks up because it's not bad enough to lose all my saves. Damn *locked* saves. :)

The cheaper is just to get the word out.

[howlinmad]

Okay, but that wasn't reallly my point. -----> You should be able to play old Xbox games w/o needing a hard drive. PS3/Revolution don't need a ~$100 hdd to play older games. Why should the X360? That's just pure laziness, or more likely reducing cost, on the part of Microsoft.

troy

I missed this the first time. You're kidding right? How exactly do I save in games like KOTOR without it? I think most XBox games use the HDD in one form or another, where as the PS2 only needed the HDD to....ummmm....well....ok dammit I'm thinking.
:)

[Quackzilla]

Consoles should not use HDDs.

Anyone who has owned a computer for 5 or more years knows exactly why, the Click of Death.

[elwood731]

I get that I really do but don't tell me you think you not paying extra for the Backwards on the PS3. A Bluray drive is completely different form the Standard CD/DVD Laser there will be extra cost to the consumer just not as outward. Also the REVO will have Downloads that you will pay for there not free.
But the REVO will play GameCube games for free.

[mietha]

IMO, you could not be more wrong. The VAST majority of 360 sales will be the real version. The "core" version exists SOLELY so microsoft can say they released it at $300 and make Wal-Mart happy. Only fucking morons will buy the "core" version, and those which are purchased as gifts will most likely be returned for the real one. There are 2 very important things you are forgetting. 1. There are MANY things the 360 simply can't do without a HD (backwards compatability, downloadable demos, large patches, a good portion of add on content, etc.) and 2. There are more things in the other bundle than just the HD (headset, wireless controller, the real AV cable, media remote [for the launch]). There is NO reason to buy the $300 version. I have heard several different reasons from many different people and they are all basically bullshit. The HD will be viewed as standard-period. If you don't have one, you are SOL for many features.

[ogreeley]

I do know somebody who is buying one of each. He's divorced and is buying one for his house and one for his ex's house. He figures his kid can just take the HD with him since he'll want the saves with him at both houses.

[Kfoster1979]

But the REVO will play GameCube games for free.

I was going to add that, but then I started to think the REVO is going to be slot load. I'm not sure how that may effect it ...

[GreenMonkey]

I'm worried about this too. I don't have quite the negative take on it that electrictoy does but I hate seeing games have to work without the hard drive - a few industry people (like Valve IIRC) have blasted Microsoft for doing it.

They should have just released the console with the HDD for a little bit more, rather than split up the userbase into haves and have-nots. Say $339 for barebones system with HD and 1 controller, and the current $399 for the bundle pack.

My wife was going to pre-order me a 360 for my b-day but she couldn't scrape together $400 to do it. She knows better than to pre-order me the "tard pack" as people are calling it.

[electrictroy]

I agree with GreenMonkey.

And Revolution, Nintendo already demonstrated how it can accept any size disc from tiny to large. It must work similar to cassettes where rollers grab the disc & move it inside the console. My one objection to that is - Will the rollers leave marks?

I like to sell games in "flawless/mint" condition. I can't do that if the new Revolution leaves roller marks on the disc.

troy

[PittsburghAfterDark]

The PSone/2/3 and GameCube/Revolution have these things in common.

1. Sony designed the chips all the way through 3 generations. There is no emulator in the PS2, there is a PSone chip.

2. Both Nintendo systems used IBM processors and ATI graphics cards. No emulation is necessary they're just generational leaps.

Microsoft built the Xbox with off the shelf parts, Pentium III, nVidia graphics card running a Windows kernel. It has now switched over to Power PC chips and an ATI graphics card. Take a look at similar type programs in the mass market in you need emulation, case in point Virtual PC for the Mac to run Windows programs.

The number one reason for backwards compatibility is to keep current generation software sales more viable for a greater period of time. Every Platinum Hits game is pure profit outside the disc printing and packaging. If you're able to milk profit centers for two transition years until the majority of the market is on "next" generation you can greater offset the losses from high hardware and development costs for selliing to a market with >5,000,000 units.

Backwards compatibility is also very retail friendly and user friendly. This has been the only time in gaming history where you can walk into a gaming store and find a decent quality launch title two generations ago in 1995 like I can with numerous PSone titles. If the market dries up for trade ins retail for new and used titles alike will be harmed.

All around it's a good deal and why it wasn't done up front will remain a semi-mystery to me. After all if I followed my buying patterns from the past 10 years I would be getting rid of my Xbox within the next 2-3 weeks and would never even consider buying holiday games like Half Life 2, Ninja Gaiden Black and Battlefield 2 because I'd never be able to play them.

[electrictroy]

1. Sony designed the chips all the way through 3 generations. There is no emulator in the PS2, there is a PSone chip.


Yeah, but PS3 will be using an *emulator* for the PS1. And no need for a hard drive. Why couldn't mickeysoft do the same?

Answer - They could, but simply chose not to.

troy

[fifthcore]

Xbox 360 HDD
Add-On USA - Yes
Add-On JPN - No (Since you can only buy it with the HDD)

[stocker08]

you anwsered your own question, good job!

[ItsTrueItsTrue92]

I think you're forgetting about the Japanese region. That's a 100% attach rate for the HDD in that region. We all know who Japanese developers cater their tastes to and that's their own brethren. I think we'll see more titles from Japan that require the HDD (Ex: FF XI).


Japanese sales of the original Xbox are extremely low, I doubt that the Japanese X360 gamers will have an impact.

[ryanbph]

I thought that with all the ram in the 360, the developer could cache/quick load times from that...I read that in an interview during the developers comments about the 2 sku's....$60 more for a much bigger hd shouldn't be an issue...If 95% of the consumers have the hdd, I would think the developers will cater to the hd, now if it ends up being a decent portion of owners w/o a hdd then things could be different, or if there is a major outcry from the minority....the only thing I am worried about, is what is msft plans for the future of the 2 sku's....they have stated that it will be 85% to 15% or so for this holiday season, but what are there plans for 2 years from now, that is what concerns me.

I don't know why you can't get that the xbox changed there structure from the last gen to the next gen, and sony has always done it in house...this forced msft to need a hd to play xbox games, where sony won't need it...it wasn't some half assed thing on msft part, they changed graphic card makers...maybe the could have ponied up a ton of money to nvidia to get some code that will make it compatible, but if they could have/did happen it would have increased the cost of the system anyways

[GreenMonkey]

Let me clarify.

I'm hoping the HDD ends up being the majority by such an amount that games eventually require the HDD. I fear that it won't be.

Then again if not having a standard HDD this gen ends up the standard, it narrows the distance between the Revolution and the other 2 consoles - a good thing IMO.

As far as PS3 emulating PS1/PS2, I bet the PS1 chip will still be floating around in the hardware somewhere, and I bet you will need the HDD for PS2 emulation. Emulation takes some pretty hefty file sizes. The only other way to write an emulator of any size would be to dump it into maybe a 256/512MB flash memory storage on the PS3, or with a PS2 emulator boot disc of some sort. Or maybe they are recycling the PS2 chip again for something internally.