Online Petition: Ban "Bully" Even Though It Hasn't Been Released or Played Yet

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Rockstar's Bully comes under fire once again

Rob Fahey 17:47 12/10/2005

New petition from bereaved parent asks publisher to reconsider release of game

Despite being moved back to April 2006, Rockstar's Bully remains one of the most controversial titles of the moment - with the game now the subject of an emotive petition from the mother of a teenager who committed suicide after being bullied.

Rochelle Sides has addressed her online petition, which has 369 signatures at the time of writing, to Rockstar Games president Sam Houser, asking him to "reconsider the release of this game.""

"We would like for you to understand the ramifications of your soon to be released video game titled 'Bully'," the petition begins, before going to reveal a number of US statistics on bullying - including the fact that at least 16 children commit suicide each year due to bullying.

"We ask of you as an adult, as a member of this society, to stop the release of this game," it reads. "If one child sees the violence portrayed in your game as an avenue to end his/her plight with bullying, will all of the money you have made be worth it? How much is a child's life worth to you?"

Many of the signatories to the petition also claim to have lost children to bullying-related suicide, while one notable name on the list is that of attorney Jack Thompson, an outspoken critic of violent games who claims to have sued Florida retailers to prevent them stocking the game.

Of course, the highly-emotional furore is somewhat devalued by the fact that none of the creators of the petition, nor its signatories, have actually seen the game - nor has anyone, in fact, with only a few screenshots and a brief description being released so far.

As such, the game's content has also not been rated as yet - but it's widely expected that it will receive an M rating from the ESRB in the USA, and an 18 rating here in the UK, which the industry would argue will empower parents to make an educated decision about whether to let their child play the game or not.
Link (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12201)

The age old question again beckons. Why do games face this type of outcry, outrage and press when the rest of the media world is exempt despite having the same or worse content?

How can a game be protested that no one has played or seen? How is it a game that you will not be able to buy in the majority of retailers without a legal ID going to cause harm to children? I've seen more stringent regulations from retailers on "M" rated strategy guides (I get carded at BB every single time I buy penny guides for "M" rated videogames.) yet I haven't been carded for purchases of alcohol (For 10 years.) or cigarettes (Ever.) but get carded for video game related products.

This is the Cindy Sheehan Syndrome. If you've lost someone due to **insert cause here** you have "moral authority" to preach to everyone else regardless of how wrong you truly are and no one can question you or your intentions.

[dtcarson]

Just to clarify your subject header:
asking the game company to "reconsider the release of this game" is NOT asking for a "ban". It is a company's decision what to sell or what not to sell [assuming they are selling legal stuff]. ThrillKill wasn't "banned", EA [I think] decided not to sell it. They thought the potential income based on the game was not worth the potential hassle or costs of releasing their game.

I won't buy Bully; it's not my kind of game, and I don't want it in my house. I wouldn't let my child play it or watch it. If another adult or mature teenager wants to buy/play it, fine. I don't begrudge Rockstar trying to sell it, and I don't begrudge Rochelle Sides her right to express her opinion as to whether the game should be released or not--as long as she's not asking the government to punish someone for selling it.
"Laws" enforcing ratings on games or movies are very rare as of now. I personally wouldn't have a problem with state laws saying "You cannot sell games/movies to kids under the rated age." The item can still be sold, and the parent can still buy it for his kid.

Now, Jack Thompson's claim that he "have sued Florida retailers to prevent them stocking the game"--I would want to know the exact phrasing of his suit, but on the face of it, that sounds like a load of crap.

But consumers uniting, to let a manufacturer/distributer/seller know their opinion of a product? Nothing at all wrong with that, though the reasoning may at times be specious. It's up to the company to balance [potential] Purchasers versus Complainers.

"

[CappyCobra]

This regulation is not needed. If anything GS cards for every 'M' Rated game and if a parent buys it for thier kid the Sale associate lets them know. The industry is self-regulated as it is. Leave it alone and fuck-off. Go back to the soccer games Mommies and let us play what we older gamers want to play.

[Blustrk98]

This only makes me want to see/play/buy it more :)

[camoor]

Just to clarify your subject header:
asking the game company to "reconsider the release of this game" is NOT asking for a "ban". It is a company's decision what to sell or what not to sell [assuming they are selling legal stuff]. ThrillKill wasn't "banned", EA [I think] decided not to sell it. They thought the potential income based on the game was not worth the potential hassle or costs of releasing their game.

Good point - this is a great way to get the parents point heard while not censoring artists.

Although I still don't dig how Walmart won't stock AO game titles - they are such a crushing megastore that any action like that is a virtual censorship of the game, which just seems unAmerican to me.

[klwillis45]

This only makes me want to see/play/buy it more :)


See also: PARENTAL ADVISORY: EXPLICIT LYRICS

[evanft]

This is why:
http://www.bigfringe.com/christian/biblecross.gif

[ryanbph]

the game does interest me...i don't think an online ban/petition (whatever they are trying to accomplish) is necessary...What does need to happen, is retail establishments that due sell games, need to be regulated on selling to minors...I am for heavy fines, and the constant checking on the store to make sure they follow the laws/rules that are already in place.

[Brak]

This is why:
http://www.bigfringe.com/christian/biblecross.gif

And as we know, Joeseph Lieberman and Hilary Clinton are huge Christians.

[insert rolling eyes here]

And if this game does get banned, I'm going to shoot up a school.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I fail to see where religous motivation, citation or morality was any part of this petition.

Perhaps you should take your anti-Christian bigotry elsewhere.

[shipwreck]

I'm hoping that during the first half of the game you are constantly bullying other kids, then something tragic happens and your character becomes religious. The remainder of the game would be spent helping the other kids defeat the other bullies in the school by showing them the error of their ways.

[GuilewasNK]

This is so absurd. Bullying has been portrayed in more movies and TV shows than I can count.

BTW, the last time I checked, the massacres at Columbine, Jonesboro, Pearl, Paducah, Red Lake weren't influenced by Bully. People have thought of ways to hurt people long before games were invented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_massacres

This is equivalent to telling McDonald's not to sell the Big Mac because someone may not control themselves and give themselves a heart attack. People fail to realize that the actual bullying is the problem, not the thoughts of revenge. You deal with the bullying when it happens and the revenge is never an issue.

[dtcarson]

Dammit, my machine crashed before I could save my post. Too much multitasking. Anyway...

This isn't a regulation--this is a group of consumers telling a company 'we don't want your product.' Fine.
I would support a basic, state-level set of laws saying "Those ESRB ratings you came up with? Comply or pay a fine." I see the government getting more involved, not less, in the gaming industry, and that would be a way to get them off its back for a bit. Of course, I support that in lots of ways--a federal recognition of basic civil rights, federal military and interstate law, and the rest, leave to the states. It's a good idea, it's somewhere in this thing called the Constitution.

Of course, no more Hot Coffee crap either, that goes without saying; and the way Rockstar handled it was pathetic, and made the industry look worse than it is.

Cappy: your post certainly shows there is a difference between an "older" gamer and a "wiser/more mature" gamer.

Camoor: While I support the right of Walmart to sell what it wants to sell, I do see your point--WM is definitely the "800lb gorilla", and it does have lots of power over what companies release for sale. But even given their moral standards, they do still want to sell stuff that sells. Plus, there are still other venues--Best Buy, TRU, EB/GS, Amazon.com and lots of other e-tailers.

Brak: Perhaps rather than shooting up a school, you should consider *attending* one, to work on reading comprehension? The only mention of 'banning' the game was in the thread title.

EvanFT: The first mention of religion in this thread, was from your post. Nice to see bigotry is alive and well, especially from the 'tolerant' youth.

[javeryh]

Only 16 dumbasses a year commit suicide due to bullying? That is so negligible - I'm sure plenty more die from car crashes (let's stop selling Burnout), skateboarding (bye bye THPS), playing football (oops there goes Madden), etc. I mean people have a right to an opinion but give me a break - it's just a game people...

[Brak]

I hoping that during the first half of the game you are constantly bullying other kids, then something tragic happens and your character becomes religious. The remainder of the game would be spent helping the other kids defeat the other bullies in the school by showing them the error of their ways.

In all honest, if a spin on that idea were to happen as the ending of the game, that'd be a pretty damn funny social sattire.

[PenguinoMF]

I thinks stores need to check ID and inform parents that are buying the game, or any game, about whats in it and why its rated what it is. I dont mind showing ID if I'm asked. I have my wallet out anyways to pay for it.

All though 1 TRU employee I encountered took IDing to far. I was 19 and it was like 10 in the morning during a school day. I asked to see a game, I think it was Bloodrayne, and she asked me for ID. I asked "why I'm not sure if I'm buying it or not. I just want to see it." She insisted on seeing ID. Thats alittle to much imo.

[Quackzilla]

Signed, now where are the petitions for the hundreds of other crappy games?

Ban the Sims!

[GuilewasNK]

All seriousness aside, why can't all schools be like Bayside? :lol:

[Backlash]

Hmm is there ANYTHING new to say on this subject?

[MaxBiaggi2]

I'm guessing that R* didn't get the sensationalist press they had hoped for with Manhunt a few years ago, and since the GTA series wasn't generating enough press (before hot coffee), they had to do something else make headlines.

Bully is the new product they decided to push, so I'm quite curious to see just how far they're willing to push the ratings envelop given the grade school setting. Three cheers for them if it's another open-ended sandbox game where you can go anywhere and attack, maim, kill anyone you come across. :D

[pimp tyranny]

game looks interesting. these petitioners piss me off, though. why the hell should R* even consider wasting millions of dollars by not releasing this game? it's so fucked up video games get all the heat.

[opportunity777]

If I had the money I would buy 100 copies of this game everyday just to drive up sales :lol:

[ryanbph]

If I had the money I would buy 100 copies of this game everyday just to drive up sales :lol:
thats real smart....what if the game sucks like state of emergancy or manhunt? You you would show those angry parents, I guess it is a good thing you don't have that money to waste.

the people that are upset have the right to be upset/protest/ or call attention to this game, just like we have the right to buy it...it isn't the gov't job to raise the youth of today, and they shouldn't get anymore involved then they already are, but there is a fair system in place, that requires ID to purchase this game...it just needs to be enforced, and it wouldn't be an issuse

[howlinmad]

I fail to see where religous motivation, citation or morality was any part of this petition.

Perhaps you should take your anti-Christian bigotry elsewhere.

:applause:

Back on topic, I get carded at 31 buying M rated games, what else do they want? The world isn't wholesome, get over it. Many forms of entertainment, entertain many different types of people, not just children.

As many have already pointed out, why is the gaming industry the only one victim to this type of crap. Other forms get hassled, but it's not to the extent of video games.

Just another failed parent who expects the government and entertainment industry to raise their child, instead of them paying the fuck attention to their own kid.

[Zoglog]

including the fact that at least 16 children commit suicide each year due to bullying.

HAHAHAHA, omg I cant even comment on this, it's so obvious what the REAL problem is

[wubb]

Online petitions. Yeah, they carry a ton of weight.

[Zoglog]

Online petitions. Yeah, they carry a ton of weight.

WHAT!? you jest?! you mean that online petition to throw Bush out of the white house didn't work D:!?

[Purple Flames]

All seriousness aside, why can't all schools be like Bayside? :lol:

Because they cap off the number of students allowed at the schood during any given semester at 17 (the school only has two classrooms and one hallway afterall), and if you're not one of the six main characters, you're not allowed to talk.

[MaxBiaggi2]

...there is a fair system in place, that requires ID to purchase this game...it just needs to be enforced, and it wouldn't be an issue.

A system is only as good as its enforcement, and since the existing system is "voluntary," retail stores don't have to follow its guidelines at all, meaning any underage child with cash in hand can buy GTA:SA, Manhunt, etc. at some stores with no questions asked.

The only way all retail stores are going to follow the system is if they get hit in their bottom line by the government fining them, media exposing them, etc. for not following the guidelines. As long as the system is merely "voluntary," there might as well be no system in place at all.

[javeryh]

Go BAYSIDE!!!!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7075/bayside13ft.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bayside13ft.jpg)

[Quackzilla]

Online petitions. Yeah, they carry a ton of weight.
I would say something, but season 4 of family guy sucks so that petition didn't do much good anyway.

[civx]

HAHAHAHA, omg I cant even comment on this, it's so obvious what the REAL problem is

The school system?

[CappyCobra]

Cappy: your post certainly shows there is a difference between an "older" gamer and a "wiser/more mature" gamer.If I came off as juvenile, then you misread me. I'm just frustrated that instead of wasting energy in trying to get the game from being released, it could be much better spent on petitioning the retailers to enforce the age ratings of the games and ask for ID. As long as ID verification is required and no personal info taken, I have no problem being carded. If the age verification standards are not met then boycott the place in question. A ballet carries more weight when it's a greenback. Vote with your dollar folks. And if you can't control what your kids buy IF the retailers won't card then cut your kids allowance.

[Backlash]

Maybe if they changed the Ratiings from AO, M, T, E, etc to match the movie ones that everyone is familiar with (NC-17, R, PG-13, PG, etc) then a lot of the confusion would be eliminated. Parents wouldn't buy M games for the kids, and hardly any game would get an AO rating.

[wubb]

Maybe if they changed the Ratiings from AO, M, T, E, etc to match the movie ones that everyone is familiar with (NC-17, R, PG-13, PG, etc) then a lot of the confusion would be eliminated. Parents wouldn't buy M games for the kids, and hardly any game would get an AO rating.

Well, pretty much no games get AO ratings as it is.

http://www.esrb.com/search_results.asp?rat_6=Adults+Only+%2818%2B%29&count1=6&desID0=32&desID1=8&desID2=24&desID3=28&desID4=37&desID5=4&desID6=44&desID7=31&desID8=23&desID9=38&desID10=27&desID11=22&desID12=39&desID13=10&desID14=25&desID15=30&desID16=52&desID17=56&desID18=55&desID19=43&desID20=46&desID21=50&desID22=51&desID23=53&desID24=54&desID25=34&desID26=41&desID27=42&desID28=48&desID29=13&desID30=40&desID31=49&desID32=15&desID33=11&desID34=26&desID35=14&desID36=12&desID37=33&desID38=35&desID39=21&desID40=36&desID41=20&desID42=29&count2=43&platID0=12&platID1=17&platID2=18&platID3=19&platID4=20&platID5=32&platID6=42&platID7=5&platID8=34&plat9=GameCube&platID9=33&platID10=48&platID11=22&platID12=49&platID13=39&platID14=3&platID15=6&platID16=43&platID17=41&platID18=36&platID19=24&platID20=11&plat21=PlayStation+2&platID21=30&platID22=50&platID23=52&platID24=25&platID25=37&platID26=46&platID27=51&platID28=26&platID29=13&platID30=14&platID31=31&platID32=7&platID33=8&platID34=15&platID35=10&platID36=4&platID37=40&platID38=16&platID39=53&platID40=45&plat41=Xbox&platID41=35&platID42=47&platID43=44&count3=44&pub=&key=&type=game&validatePowerSearch=1&x=43&y=8

The only one for a console is GTA:SA and that's only due to Rockstar (mistakenly or not) leaving content on the disc

[GuilewasNK]

Maybe if they changed the Ratiings from AO, M, T, E, etc to match the movie ones that everyone is familiar with (NC-17, R, PG-13, PG, etc) then a lot of the confusion would be eliminated. Parents wouldn't buy M games for the kids, and hardly any game would get an AO rating.
All that does is confirm that the parents are either too stupid or unwilling to use the system in place now. No one can even use that as an argument because the TV ratings only have G and PG in place, everything else is different. But guess how many kids are allowed to watch WWE because it's "wrestling" or cartoons (anime) because cartoons are "kids" entertainment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Parental_Guidelines

[civx]

Maybe if they changed the Ratiings from AO, M, T, E, etc to match the movie ones that everyone is familiar with (NC-17, R, PG-13, PG, etc) then a lot of the confusion would be eliminated. Parents wouldn't buy M games for the kids, and hardly any game would get an AO rating.

I don't see why it's so difficult for parents to spend an extra 5 minutes to look at the game their child wants to purchase, see the big M with "Mature" right above it, and say 'No, you can't have that'.

[vietgurl]

I work at EB and at my store, we require ID on all M rated games. If a kid wants to buy the game, then we require a parent/guardian. I've been yelled at so many times by angry parents because they have to come in to tell me that it's okay for their 7 year old to buy San Andreas. Some parents just really suck at parenting

[FriskyTanuki]

Maybe if they changed the Ratiings from AO, M, T, E, etc to match the movie ones that everyone is familiar with (NC-17, R, PG-13, PG, etc) then a lot of the confusion would be eliminated. Parents wouldn't buy M games for the kids, and hardly any game would get an AO rating.
Because the movie ratings system sucks and it's corrupt. I don't want to see games getting cut material because they want the R rating instead of NC17 that stores won't stock (just an example, not meant to be taken seriously). That system is just pure bullshit.

[Blind the Thief]

I'd sign this petition just because it looks like a crappy game to me.

LESS CRAPPY GAMES FOR ALL! :)

[Backlash]

All that does is confirm that the parents are either too stupid or unwilling to use the system in place now.

Correct. And a fix might be to change the system, even though we shouldn't need to.

I don't see why it's so difficult for parents to spend an extra 5 minutes to look at the game their child wants to purchase, see the big M with "Mature" right above it, and say 'No, you can't have that'.

I agree, but apparently most parents are complete morons. No surprise there. I'm just offering one potential way to improve the current "problem."

I'm sure it took quite awhile for the movie ratings to become well-known. Rather than wait many years for the game ratings to also become well-known and understood (though it seems pretty ovious to me), why not make use of the other ratings?

[Backlash]

Because the movie ratings system sucks and it's corrupt. I don't want to see games getting cut material because they want the R rating instead of NC17 that stores won't stock (just an example, not meant to be taken seriously). That system is just pure bullshit.

Once everyone understands the game ratings, you will see this anyway. In fact, you already have - GTA:SA is getting a new version to move it from AO to M. Granted, that's somewhat of a special case, but what you will more likely see is that once parents actually understand whan an M rating means, publishers will cut content to achieve a T rating, much like producers cut movie content to ensure a PG-13 instead of R.

[Ben]

As many have already pointed out, why is the gaming industry the only one victim to this type of crap. Other forms get hassled, but it's not to the extent of video games.
The comic industry has it worse in one way - store owners regularly get thrown in jail for selling adult comics to ADULTS.

[Zoglog]

Bullying could be the manisfestation of Natural Selection in our society :D

SOCIAL DARWINISM!! BRING I ON WRYYYYYYYYYYYY!

[FriskyTanuki]

Once everyone understands the game ratings, you will see this anyway. In fact, you already have - GTA:SA is getting a new version to move it from AO to M. Granted, that's somewhat of a special case, but what you will more likely see is that once parents actually understand whan an M rating means, publishers will cut content to achieve a T rating, much like producers cut movie content to ensure a PG-13 instead of R.
That will not happen because what the publishers submit for ratings is near final, if not the gold, version of the game, so cutting content out is never an option at all. It just doesn't work that way. The devs don't work for 12-24 months just to cut out shit during the last few weeks, they do that gradually during development.

[Backlash]

I meant that "controversial" or "violent" content won't get put in at all (because of the publisher leaning on the developer) in order to get a lower rating.

[the3rdkey]

This is why:
http://www.bigfringe.com/christian/biblecross.gif

Welcome to someone who gets all his political information from the mainstream media.

[Backlash]

Welcome to someone who gets all his political information from the mainstream media.

I love how people on both sides of every debate say this. :) But that stuff is better left to the Vs forum.

[the3rdkey]

I love how people on both sides of every debate say this. :) But that stuff is better left to the Vs forum.

I happen to be a Politcal Science major at the University of Michigan Dearborn... good job at jumping to conclusions.

[Backlash]

I happen to be a Politcal Science major at the University of Michigan Dearborn... good job at jumping to conclusions.

Conclusions? All I said is that I hear this from everyone, which is true. Enjoy your major though.

[FriskyTanuki]

I meant that "controversial" or "violent" content won't get put in at all (because of the publisher leaning on the developer) in order to get a lower rating.
I still don't see what the hell you're saying. Developers already can tell what rating they should be getting from their initial concept, so there's reason to cut or not put in content. The movie rating system just won't fit, so there's no reason to even suggest it. It just complicates a system that's simple. As has been proven, rating doesn't really mean shit in this industry. One game's not going to sell more because it's an M instead of a T rating, or an E instead of a T rating. There's no need for any change because it's the parents that have to adapt and actually learn, not the industry.

[Backlash]

I still don't see what the hell you're saying. Developers already can tell what rating they should be getting from their initial concept, so there's reason to cut or not put in content. The movie rating system just won't fit, so there's no reason to even suggest it. It just complicates a system that's simple.

Is it not basically the same rating system with different letters? I'm just suggesting using letters people are already familiar with. I don't see how either system is simpler or more complex than the other.


As has been proven, rating doesn't really mean shit in this industry. One game's not going to sell more because it's an M instead of a T rating, or an E instead of a T rating.

With Walmart not selling AO games, that's obviously not true. And my point is that if parents (or lawmakers) ever pay attention, then the ratings will mean something. I think it's clear that things in this country are headed that direction. Look at the senators like Lieberman who are basically saying "Fix it so that kids don't play bad games or we will start passing laws." Actually, didn't a law already pass at the state level somewhere in the Midwest?

There's no need for any change because it's the parents that have to adapt and actually learn, not the industry.

I agree - it SHOULD be the parents' job to monitor their kids. However, most parents are horrible at this job and Congress loves to pass laws "for the good of America."

[FriskyTanuki]

Is it not basically the same rating system with different letters? I'm just suggesting using letters people are already familiar with. I don't see how either system is simpler or more complex than the other.
I say it's more simple because of how the ratings are posted on the box, how the ratings are given, and how they're unbiased against any company. They're similar, but in my opinion the ESRB ratings are a little more simple.

With Walmart not selling AO games, that's obviously not true. And my point is that if parents (or lawmakers) ever pay attention, then the ratings will mean something. I think it's clear that things in this country are headed that direction. Look at the senators like Lieberman who are basically saying "Fix it so that kids don't play bad games or we will start passing laws." Actually, didn't a law already pass at the state level somewhere in the Midwest?
AO games account for less than 1% of the thousands of titles that the ESRB has rated, with only two out of the nineteen total AO games that most people would even recognize. It's not a huge deal for developers, because they don't even shoot for that rating. I don't think it's that the system is in any way bad, it's that people aren't used to it yet because they still have the mentality that games are only for kids when the average age for a gamer is 30 years old.

While Lieberman is all for keeping adult movies and games out of kids' hands, he's praised the ESRB as the best entertainment ratings system in the US. Illinois and Michigan have passed laws, but the Illinois one is being appealed as well as the one that just passed in California because they're unconstitutional.

[redgopher]

As the recipient of much bullying through all of my school years, I think this game is pretty fucking despicable but I won't ban it simply for my support of the first amendment. Does that mean I have to buy it just because I don't want to ban it? Fuck no.

People are so god damn stupid.

[Backlash]

I say it's more simple because of how the ratings are posted on the box, how the ratings are given, and how they're unbiased against any company. They're similar, but in my opinion the ESRB ratings are a little more simple.

That's true.


AO games account for less than 1% of the thousands of titles that the ESRB has rated, with only two out of the nineteen total AO games that most people would even recognize. It's not a huge deal for developers, because they don't even shoot for that rating. I don't think it's that the system is in any way bad, it's that people aren't used to it yet because they still have the mentality that games are only for kids when the average age for a gamer is 30 years old.

Definitely true. Hopefully the public will figure it out sooner rather than later.

[JSweeney]

Conclusions? All I said is that I hear this from everyone, which is true. Enjoy your major though.

You see it would be this mat that you would put on the floor and it would have different "conclusions" written on it that you could "jump to".

[Backlash]

Yes, it is horrible, this idea.

[wageslave]

The title of the game is "Bully" but there is no description of what the game is about. Probably just a GTA clone. If it was about beating up kids at school I'd say that would suck, but I don't think it is the case.

[Zoglog]

For those of you who havent noticed the petition is now tottally overrun by 4chan /b/ forum people. it's like a flood I swear.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?corinne&151

[dtcarson]

Wow, assuming those people are pro-Bully, that's really going to make their side look good.
:roll:

[Zoglog]

687. Bridget-kun /b/ IS GONNA BRING THIS GAME DOWN! I'VE READ ABOUT IT AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE SINGLE CROSSDRESSING CHARACTER. I HATE ROCKSTAR AND EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR!

lol not all of them are pro-bully :D