Area Man Can't read Warranty, Sues MS Over Defective 360s, Shames City of Chicago

[Apossum]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051205/tc_nm/media_xbox_dc

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Chicago man who bought Microsoft Corp.'s new
Xbox 360 has sued the world's largest software maker, saying the new video game console has a design flaw that causes it to overheat and freeze up.
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The proposed class action claims that in Microsoft's bid to gain share in the $25 billion global video game market, the company was so intent on releasing the Xbox 360 before competing next-generation machines from Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news). and Nintendo Co Ltd. that it sold a "defectively designed" product.

Robert Byers, who brought the suit, said the power supply and central processing unit in the Xbox 360 overheat, affecting heat-sensitive chips and causing the console to lock up.

Microsoft spokeswoman Molly O'Donnell on Monday said the company does not comment on pending litigation.

Complaints about the problem surfaced quickly on gaming enthusiast Web sites after the Xbox 360 debuted on November 22.

Console owners reported that some systems had crashed during regular use as well as during online game play using the Xbox Live service. Problems included screens going black and the appearance of a variety of error messages.

At the time O'Donnell told Reuters: "We have received a few isolated reports of consoles not working as expected."

She declined to say how many reports Microsoft had received and said that calls reporting the issue to the company represented a "very, very small fraction" of units sold.

The lawsuit, filed on Friday in federal court in Illinois, seeks unspecified damages and litigation-related expenses, as well as the replacement or recall of Xbox 360 game consoles.

[Esperado]

That bastard, i'll never have an xbox 360 now..

[javeryh]

You knew some douche was going to sue... I don't get what's in it for him though - at best he would recover his legal fees (entirely brought on by this stupid lawsuit) and a few dollars for a new Xbox. It's not like it's a payday here and even if everyone in the class got $400 or so in damages, Microsoft wouldn't really be affected financially. This just seems like a huge waste of time and money.

[RedvsBlue]

Ohhh goody, now there will be even more uninformed people hating the 360 with more ammunition to fuel their argument. Guarantee you by the end of the week we'll be hearing that microsoft lost a court case on the 360, it cost them 1 billion dollars, and they can't sell the 360 anymore and will be getting out of gaming. Just watch, you'll see it.

[flybrione]

I would not file a lawsuit but my console is currently at the repair center for the same reasons, sent mine in last Monday Nov 28th.

Screen goes black, error messages during gameplay and constant game freezes are my same symptoms.

[electrictroy]

The proposed class action claims that in Microsoft's bid to gain share in the $25 billion global video game market, the company was so intent on releasing the Xbox 360 before competing next-generation machines from Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news). and Nintendo Co Ltd. that it sold a "defectively designed" product.
This case will probably be thrown out, because Microsoft will bend-over-backwards to replace faulty consoles (as Sony did), and that will satisfy the lawyers. - OR - maybe Microsoft will be forced to pay for repairs, as happened with Sony's class action suit.


Either way looks like the first generation X360 will replace PS2 as the console "most likely to fail".

[psychobrawler]

Probably a Sony employee feeding the press...

[Apossum]

"Your honor, my client is a frequent visitor to the Xbox 360 General Discussion Board at Gamefaqs.com, one of the world's most popular video game sites. On November 23rd, 2005 at 4:30 PM, he counted 36 complaints about defective 360s on the first page alone...."

[RedvsBlue]

"Your honor, my client is a frequent visitor to the Xbox 360 General Discussion Board at Gamefaqs.com, one of the world's most popular video game sites. On November 23rd, 2005 at 4:30 PM, he counted 36 complaints about defective 360s on the first page alone...."


hmm good point, maybe Microsoft is in trouble with this lawsuit afterall...

[Apossum]

"Objection! Half of those screenames contained allusions to various Sony products!"

I wish I could get it on tape.

[Zoglog]

my Xbox 360 won't have sex with me? is it defective?

[Chris in Cali]

Good, maybe this will scare companies into not rushing faulty consoles to stores just to get a jump on the competition.

[KingDox]

I can't wait to see what happens when the PS3 comes out.

[gunm]

America, land of the lawsuit.

[asianxcore]

very lame.

my 360 froze once during the last boss of PDZ, but it was fine once I restarted it. I was then able to finish the game afterwards.

that dude should be happy he has one. chump.

[Puffa469]

The guys right. MS probably did release the 360 too early to have the Holiday 05 launch window all to themselves. But so what? Why sue?

Most high end, cutting edge electronics have bugs when they first ship, its the nature of the game. You know that going in when you buy something on day one. Your a beta tester plain and simple. Look at the first generation on any iPod product. Hell, look at any MP3 player ever made.

Even if thousands of 360 have problems thats still a small percentage of the total number produced. When they betatest, MS cant predict the conditions people 360's will have to endure, like sitting on carpets, or behind glass in entertainmen centers in houses where the heat is turned up to 90'. And Im sure that some cases, some 360's are just buggy...

A class action suit solves nothing. At least MS is doing the right thing and fixing any faulty 360 as quickly as possible at no cost to the consumer. Im no fan of MS, but hating for the sake of hating is just stupid.

[Photomotoz]

Well I think that a lawsuit was bound to happen. I thought it would happen a bit later though.

He is right though. He got a faulty product. The problem was with the design of the 360, becuase it failed under regular use. And I am sure Microsoft tested it on various surfaces. Carpet is the main cause of overheating for consoles and I am sure they tested on that.

I mean if your Xbox broke becuase Microsoft shipped it with a defect, wouldn't you want to sue? Maybe not but consider the fact that is problem is affecting other people as well. People who have already discovered the problem or those who soon will. I think he is justified.

Now I by no means hate the 360, Xbox or Microsoft but I have to say that the 360 felt very rushed. Microsoft figured that it would be fine, they took a gamble. I think the best solution here is that Microsoft agrees to repair any consoles that suffer from this defect.

[slidecage]

im waiting for the lawsuit

the xbox 360 knocked up my hamster : )

[Ikohn4ever]

Imagine you waited 24hours or more to get a 360, it works fine the first time you play then later that week you get the HAL red light of death. I would be fucKing pissed off to know end, I dont know if I would go legal on the MSoft but I would want more than just a repair, I waited all that time to get a faulty product, its just rude.

[SevereTireDamage]

I don't quite see how this isn't a justified lawsuit. Yes, it may be a small portion of Xboxes shipped, but it's still probably hundreds (at least) in this country. It's sad that we've become accustomed to buying buggy software and hardware at launch - but the bottom line is, when you pay for anything, you expect it to work. Especially if it's only been two weeks!

For those saying, "How is this guy going to profit from this?" he won't be. There won't be any punitive damages awarded. The fact is, releasing anything for sale with known technical malfunctions, especially a $400 electronics item, is wrong and should be discouraged.

[Apossum]

I don't quite see how this isn't a justified lawsuit. Yes, it may be a small portion of Xboxes shipped, but it's still probably hundreds (at least) in this country. It's sad that we've become accustomed to buying buggy software and hardware at launch - but the bottom line is, when you pay for anything, you expect it to work. Especially if it's only been two weeks!

For those saying, "How is this guy going to profit from this?" he won't be. There won't be any punitive damages awarded. The fact is, releasing anything for sale with known technical malfunctions, especially a $400 electronics item, is wrong and should be discouraged.

one of the many reasons it's not justified is because his warranty isn't even up yet. The warranty is there in case it breaks within 2 weeks because it's faulty. No electronic gadget is without it's kinks, especially one as complex as the 360 and MS understands this too. As far as I can tell, people are having good customer service experience with MS reps over the 360 and they are all having them fixed or replaced at no expense whatsoever. I.E. there's nothing to sue about.

its not justified at all and I'm guessing the guy is a complete moron who is starving for attention.

[Morpheus]

one of the many reasons it's not justified is because his warranty isn't even up yet. The warranty is there in case it breaks within 2 weeks because it's faulty. No electronic gadget is without it's kinks, especially one as complex as the 360 and MS understands this too. As far as I can tell, people are having good customer service experience with MS reps over the 360 and they are all having them fixed or replaced at no expense whatsoever. I.E. there's nothing to sue about.

its not justified at all and I'm guessing the guy is a complete moron who is starving for attention.

You're right on target with this post.

[Photomotoz]

So he should sue after his warranty is up?

And once that happens he won't be able to fix it for free. Even if its a defect. By sueing now he increases his chance of winning. He isn't giving Microsoft the chance to say "We don't care, it's out of warranty.". The defects will stay there after the warranty period, it is just a matter of time till it shows up.

[GizmoGC]

So he should sue after his warranty is up?

And once that happens he won't be able to fix it for free. Even if its a defect. By sueing now he increases his chance of winning. He isn't giving Microsoft the chance to say "We don't care, it's out of warranty.". The defects will stay there after the warranty period, it is just a matter of time till it shows up.

I still find it funny people expect electronics to last forever, especially something as complex as a disc-based videogame system. I still remember people bitching at me at Blockbuster that are brand new VHS tape broke there 1988 VCR.

[Ultimate Matt X]

You know if there is actually a design flaw I kinda get what the point of this suit is. People talk about the warranty and such and if its just an individual system I think that is the route to go, but what if something like this would prove that all the systems are defect?

Yes, they shouldn't be expected to last forever, but if a lot of systems start dying a year or two from now than maybe something like this is justified. Now, this will never go anywhere, but its an interesting point.

Also, that first gen beta tester crap is BS. As I've said before I can't think of anyone having perpetual problems with launch systems other than Sony so its not like we should expect crap on launch. Also, do you really think Microsoft is going to change anything about the 360 design down the road? Not likely unless something is really wrong with it to start and that doesn't seem to be the case with the Xbox or about any video game system for the most part.

[Brak]

You knew some douche was going to sue... I don't get what's in it for him though - at best he would recover his legal fees (entirely brought on by this stupid lawsuit) and a few dollars for a new Xbox. It's not like it's a payday here and even if everyone in the class got $400 or so in damages, Microsoft wouldn't really be affected financially. This just seems like a huge waste of time and money.

Attorney-folk jump on class-action lawsuits for exposure and, if they win, a massive cut of the pay-off.

In other words, an attorney is more than likely doing this for "free".

[Apossum]

So he should sue after his warranty is up?

And once that happens he won't be able to fix it for free. Even if its a defect. By sueing now he increases his chance of winning. He isn't giving Microsoft the chance to say "We don't care, it's out of warranty.". The defects will stay there after the warranty period, it is just a matter of time till it shows up.

if the warranty expires, and then a significant percentage of 360s start breaking down, then there are grounds for a class action suit...if my common sense is serving me correctly.

[Brak]

if the warranty expires, and then a significant percentage of 360s start breaking down, then there are grounds for a class action suit...if my common sense is serving me correctly.

Right. It happened with iPods, remember?

[Apossum]

Right. It happened with iPods, remember?

i have no idea, i didn't pay attention to those much...

[worx]

Until somebody shows me a video of Bill Gates, (with his his grandmother, two forms of government identification and a police officer in the background) talking about how he intentionally designed it to burn, then I think this is total crap.

No major company sets out to design a defective product (as far as I know)
I believe at worst this is a design oversight that was caused by rushing it to market which would be covered under waranty, like Apossum said therefore leaving no rhyme or reason to sue.

[Apossum]

The money really isn't that important here. If each plaintiff could just slap bill gates in the head with their dick 400 times, everything would be equal. :lol:

[electrictroy]

Problem with overheating is that it just gets worse-n-worse. As dust collects around the fans & blocks the air flow, more & more CPUs that used to work, will now start overheating. ------ Plus as games become more advanced & push CPU utilization from 30% to 80-90%, the CPU will run hotter, and again we'll see X360 overheat.

We have an overheating design board at work, and it's a major ***** trying to fix the problem.


I suspect the U.S. Courts will treat Microsoft as they treated Sony - forcing Sony/Microsoft to offer full refunds on repairs of broken equipment.

[Blitz]

I don't quite see how this isn't a justified lawsuit. Yes, it may be a small portion of Xboxes shipped, but it's still probably hundreds (at least) in this country. It's sad that we've become accustomed to buying buggy software and hardware at launch - but the bottom line is, when you pay for anything, you expect it to work. Especially if it's only been two weeks!

For those saying, "How is this guy going to profit from this?" he won't be. There won't be any punitive damages awarded. The fact is, releasing anything for sale with known technical malfunctions, especially a $400 electronics item, is wrong and should be discouraged.


Exactly. If this was SONY who was having this problem people would be up in arms. He is not the first person to have these problems.

Maybe some of these companies will wake up and instead of rushing crap out they will take their time. Even though I doubt that will happen.

[shipwreck]

Exactly. If this was SONY who was having this problem people would be up in arms. He is not the first person to have these problems.

Maybe some of these companies will wake up and instead of rushing crap out they will take their time. Even though I doubt that will happen.

Well, the overwhelming majority of 360 owners aren't having any problems, so by not "rushing" it out, we wouldn't be able to enjoy our systems right now. This is a ridiculous lawsuit for a problem experienced by a small minority of 360 owners and it is already covered under warranty.

[psychobrawler]

This guy would have to prove 1.) that the production was rushed, 2.) prove that the percentage of people reporting problems is higher than it was for xbox, ps2, psone, gamecube, etc (though I doubt those companies will volunteer the information), and 3.)prove that #2 was caused by #1, and finally prove that all of this is somehow illegal or wrongful. The thing is under warrenty, get your damned replacement and shut up. MS has acknowlegded some problems and have taken steps to ammend them. This is not like an automobile or a pharmaceutical where people will die because they get a black screen. It's an inconvenience, and it sucks, but MS is ponying up so be thankful. If you want a gaurantee that all your new toys will work forever, buy legos...

[neudog]

Ironic how so many say big companies, SONY and MS, should take their time with a launch, yet on the other hand you have these same idiots bitching and whining to play the new console. Defects come with any new item from electronics to clothing. IMHO nothing will come of this except repairs and a formatted/"cookie cutter" apology letter.

but what if something like this would prove that all the systems are defect?

If this were the case you wouldn't have forums here and elsewhere where members are praising the system. Just more ammo for another fanboy movement. It is probably on the web, "SONY, videogame gods for postponing launch to make quality system." All you who have negative opinions towards the 360 you are entitled to your opinion and that is fine, but I ask you to bookmark this link so you can refer back to it when your having problems with your PS3.

I know it sucks to send your console back and wait the few weeks it takes to repair, but as others have stated MS is doing a great job at resolving this issue and at little to no cost to consumer. How many people do you think have forked out the $60+ for the warranty, I know I haven't. Granted there are a few of you that immediately after opening signed up for the warranty, but most would rather get another game. This being the case IMO you should be happy to get free s/h and repairs without said warranty.

I'm enjoying my 360 and if anything was wrong I would get it fixed, but to sue or go overboard on the issue is ludicrous.

[electrictroy]

Well, the overwhelming majority of 360 owners aren't having any problems... This is a ridiculous lawsuit

The same is true for the PS2 (overwhelming majority not having problems), but Sony still lost the class-action lawsuit.

troy

[shipwreck]

The same is true for the PS2 (overwhelming majority not having problems), but Sony still lost the class-action lawsuit.

troy

I like how you cut off the last part of my quote where I talked about the 360s still being under warranty. That's the entire reason this suit is ridiculous! The Sony lawsuit was for systems out of warranty so it's an entirely different situation that wasn't covered by the warranty.

[KaneRobot]

So he should sue after his warranty is up?

And once that happens he won't be able to fix it for free. Even if its a defect. By sueing now he increases his chance of winning. He isn't giving Microsoft the chance to say "We don't care, it's out of warranty.". The defects will stay there after the warranty period, it is just a matter of time till it shows up.

QFT.

Of COURSE Microsoft is going to bend over backwards to fix all these problems NOW...if they didn't, they'd just be adding MORE fuel to the fire for people who realize (read: not morons) that this was rushed to beat Sony to market and are taking them to task on it.

Once that warranty is up, you're fucked, and MS won't do a damn thing for you, whether it's due to their screw-up or not. First-run XBox owners with Thompson drives that just so happened to fail right after warranty was up will attest to that. So this guy is a douchebag for taking initiative NOW before it's too late, but MS isn't for not fixing things if they die two weeks out of warranty?

I'm glad this happened, and I'd hope it would light a fire under MS to get their shit straight for future production. But it won't, since people will buy whatever is put in front of them.

I certainly want a 360, but I have zero problem waiting until some of this stuff is ironed out.

[Maynard]

even though I love my 360 and have no problemo's I still love the fact that J Allard said "Look at that console it doesn't even have fans, how is it going to ventilate? Looks like an overheating palace!" about the PS3.



Definition of IRONY

[electrictroy]

The Sony lawsuit was for systems out of warranty so it's an entirely different situation that wasn't covered by the warranty. Incorrect. The Sony lawsuit covered *any* system, in-or-out-of-warranty. Even if you got a DRE on day 1, you were entitled to a refund for repair expenses under the class-action lawsuit.


Also, don't you think X360s will *still* be overheating after the 90 day warranty expires? Of course they will, because it's a flawed design. So the class-action would have happened anyway. Why wait until March to start the legal filing?

troy

[Apossum]

in case anyone missed this: IT'S TEH DUM B/C UR SYSTEM IS STILL UNDER TEH WARRANTY.

[Ultimate Matt X]

Why can't people not understand that the warranty matters little if the system is designed improperly? If its improperly designed it will crap possibly after 90 days and the consumer is screwed. I don't know if the 360 has this problem, but I'd like to know.

It is not TEH DUMMM or whatever everyone yaps about, it just makes sense. Yes, the warranty should be used if its just one random defect, but I'd say it is at least worth investigating that something bigger may be going on.

Also, if heating and the system being noisy aren't defects and just the way it is don't expect that to change first run or not.

[Apossum]

Even if it is designed improperly (fat chance...) there still hasn't been enough time to make a call on that. the system came out 2 WEEKS AGO. jeez.

[usickenme]

According to a few sites I've seen the failure rate is 3% which is about normal. However, that is just the launch system. I would guess it is bound to get worse over time. I assume this guy is just covering his bases. And if it turns out to be a flaw, most of you here will be thanking the guy.

Also check out the engadget podcast. That guy had a really bad customer service experience with his broken 360.

lol at the thread title...some fanboys are so dramatic.

[electrictroy]

in case anyone missed this: IT'S TEH DUM B/C UR SYSTEM IS STILL UNDER TEH WARRANTY.


The Sony lawsuit covered *any* system, in-or-out-of-warranty. Even if you got a DRE on day 1, you were entitled to a refund for repair expenses under the class-action lawsuit.

SO STOP USIN' TEH LAME EXCUSE - IT DUN'T APPLY

[shipwreck]

The Sony lawsuit covered *any* system, in-or-out-of-warranty. Even if you got a DRE on day 1, you were entitled to a refund for repair expenses under the class-action lawsuit.

SO STOP USIN' TEH LAME EXCUSE - IT DUN'T APPLY

Yes, but the Sony lawsuit didn't happen when every system was still under warranty.

[Apossum]

The Sony lawsuit covered *any* system, in-or-out-of-warranty. Even if you got a DRE on day 1, you were entitled to a refund for repair expenses under the class-action lawsuit.

SO STOP USIN' TEH LAME EXCUSE - IT DUN'T APPLY


like shipwreck mentioned, it's not the same thing at all and it sounds like you are just grasping for straws. The lawsuit didn't occur within 2 weeks of launch...actually it was two years later.

face it, the plaintiff is a douche with no intention of righting a wrong situation. he just wants his piece of the pie...whether that be attention, money, or relief of pent up sexual tension. :lol:

[Ultimate Matt X]

When it happened doesn't matter because at some point the problems may still be there when people are out of the warranty period or when Microsoft isn't being so kind with returns.

Also, for the person that said there isn't a design flaw because many are working, that doesn't matter. Many products get recalled that are actually functioning quite fine, but are still recalled because they pose some sort of risk or have a design flaw.

With that said, I have a 360 that hasn't crashed once and I don't think there is a design flaw that will be changed anytime soon. Well, maybe the plug size or something, but they're probably always gonna run a little hot and be a little noisy. But that doesn't mean that I mind when someone looks into it a little more to protect me and everyone else because I have friends on here and else where that have been burned by bad systems and I don't wanna join them, even if its three years down the road (which the system should reasonably last till).

[Michaellvortega]

People are just stupid, I saw three people in 15 minutes come into EB games asking to exchange their 360's for the RECALL that MS started. People think the Internet is the the new Bible, everything is God's law and true..........

On a side note I can't wait to start threads like ::OmG SonyZ is th3 NoobZorZ my PS3 wont work upsidedown, my PS1 worked upside down::

And another thing, Let us CAG members sue Sony for saying PS2 was going to do Toy Story graphics in real time. We all bought PS2's under the promise of Toy Story graphics in REAL TIME. Your honor I present Game Informer issure 123... MR ken K can you read the line here where YOU SAY PS2 will have real time toy story graphics.......

[Apossum]

People are just stupid, I saw three people in 15 minutes come into EB games asking to exchange their 360's for the RECALL that MS started. People think the Internet is the the new Bible, everything is God's law and true..........

On a side note I can't wait to start threads like ::OmG SonyZ is th3 NoobZorZ my PS3 wont work upsidedown, my PS1 worked upside down::

And another thing, Let us CAG members sue Sony for saying PS2 was going to do Toy Story graphics in real time. We all bought PS2's under the promise of Toy Story graphics in REAL TIME. Your honor I present Game Informer issure 123... MR ken K can you read the line here where YOU SAY PS2 will have real time toy story graphics.......


fuck that, i'm suing sony the second the PS3 releases if I see so much as a single post about a led going out. UH OH, time for teh recall, one of em is defective. proceeds go to cag. ;)

[Stryffe2004]

This is a very stupid lawsuit. He has a lawsuit if he had a problem, submitted to MS, they failed or refused to fix it within a reasonable time and now he has no recourse. Saying the sytem has an inherent design defect does not make it true. h eis going to have to find an enigneer or engineers to reverse engineer the thing to find the defect.

People rushing to file suits hurts our entire legal system. I am a lawyer and I have people ask me about all kinds of idiotic suits they want to bring, because they see foolishness like this.

[theeipi]

i thought he needed to actually suffer damages to sue...
what damages has he or anyone else suffered? they can always just return the xbox if they are unhappy.

not being able to play xbox 360 games is not a financial penalty in the eyes of the law, despite the fact that many of us may think otherwise