New Revolution info revealed. Got yer salt?

[Reality's Fringe]

Story Posted
December 6, 2005 - Just yesterday IGN Revolution launched with technical details on Nintendo's next-generation console, codenamed Revolution. And today more development sources have come forward with both clarification and even more tech specs. The latest news begins to paint a clearer picture of Nintendo's aim with its next platform.

We cannot stress this enough: Revolution is not being positioned as a competitor to either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3. Nintendo has instead chosen to design a console that will be very affordable for consumers. For that very reason, say developers in the know, the Big N has opted out of filling the system with a massive supply of expensive RAM.

In yesterday's article, we wrote that Revolution would include 128MBs of RAM, or possibly less. Developers have clarified the makeup based on officially released Nintendo documentation. Revolution will build on GameCube's configuration of 24MBs 1T-SRAM and 16MBs D-RAM (40MBs) by adding an addition 64MBs of 1T-SRAM. The result is a supply of memory in Revolution that totals 104MBs. That number does not consider either the 512MBs of allegedly accessible (but hardly ideal) Flash RAM or the Hollywood GPU's on-board memory, said to be 3MBs by sources.

Revolution's Broadway CPU, developed by IBM, is an extension of the Gekko CPU in GameCube, according to official Nintendo documentation passed to us by software houses. The Hollywood GPU, meanwhile, is believed to be an extension of the Flipper GPU in GameCube. Since developers have not gone hands-on with the GPU, they can only go on Nintendo documentation, which is limited.

Exact clock rates were not disclosed, but one development source we spoke to had this to say of the Revolution CPU and GPU: "Basically, take a GameCube, double the clock rate of the CPU and GPU and you're done."

We presented that description to another informed studio, which clarified that the clock rates may even fall short of doubling those on GameCube.

"The CPU is the same as Gekko with one and a half to two times the performance and improved caching," said a source. "Our guys experimented with it and think they'll be able to get about twice the performance as GameCube."

"It's a gamble for the Big N," said another source. "It's not about horsepower for them -- it's about innovation and gameplay."

We've also been able to unearth firm details on the storage capacity for Revolution discs. Recent rumors suggesting that the discs can hold 12GBs of data are false. In fact, Revolution discs can store 4.7GBs of data on a single layer or 8.5GBs when double-layered on a single-side. This is a massive jump from the 1.5GB capacity of GameCube discs and more than enough storage capacity for any non-high-definition game.

Readers discouraged by Revolution's seeming lack of horsepower when compared to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 should remember that Nintendo is not interested in competing in the high-definition gaming arena, and as a standard-definition console, Revolution is more than capable. Capcom's Resident Evil 4 remains one of the most gorgeous games this generation and it ran on GameCube, a console at least half as powerful according to developer reports.

Software houses we spoke with also waxed on the immediate advantage to Nintendo's approach with Revolution, which is, of course, system price. Every developer was in agreement that Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.

Stay tuned for more as it develops.













From Kotaku:

"IGN message boards are buzzing with words from Nintendo/Revolution editor Matt Casamassina. The already linked article targets the Revolution around Thanksgiving of 2006 and tonight, Casamassina claims he’s going to talk about RAM, DVD disc storage and some more tidbits on the system’s processing power. None of this is very official - yet, it’s all coming to him from developers and so far they’ve stayed anonymous. At least there’s a plot thickening for Nintendo’s next console, though."

Casamassina'a actual post:
"Whoa baby. I should put an end to some speculation before it runs out of control.

Tonight's article will be a continuation of last night's. Satoru Iwata has not personally delivered us the full spec breakdown. Nintendo doesn't want to talk specs and I don't think anything we do will really change that.

That said, devs do have official documentation and it has been directly quoted to me over the phone.

Tonight, we'll talk a bit more about CPU / GPU power. We'll also have a clarification on RAM. (And before you go thinking that we messed up and it has 512MBs, think again -- it's the other way.) And we'll reveal the real DVD capacity. That 12GB stuff was completely bogus.

Devs also speculate on a price point.

Can someone do me a favor and pass this along to the guys at the GA Forum before they toss me into the bonfire.

Thanks.

Matt"

I've got a boner already, kiddies. Everyone should watch IGN.com later tonight, and sorry if this is a repost.

[AngellicLulu]

Most interesting. I will definitely check out ign tonight.

[scdoanintendo]

Nov. 06 seems too long especially if the PS3 launches in the spring.

[Reality's Fringe]

Oh yeah:

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673578p1.html

That's the article Kotaku was refering too. I'm not sure if that's the one that will be updated or if it will be an entirely new one.

[Strell]

Be prepared to be disappointed in the actual horsepower of the Rev.

/just sayin, still getting one + probably everything at launch, I can afford to not be a CAG for one day...

[Dr Mario Kart]

The guy had a Perfect Dark Zero review on the main page of Cube.ign.com with the caption: "Does Matt like it?".

I really dont like him.

[Ecofreak]

This is going to turn into a big flame war with the people who will laugh at the specs for the Revolution regardless of what they are, and the lack of HD.

Well, to them, I save pre-emptively, "Go the bugger away!"

[Reality's Fringe]

Be prepared to be disappointed in the actual horsepower of the Rev.

/just sayin, still getting one + probably everything at launch, I can afford to not be a CAG for one day...

They say it's about 3-4 times the power of the cube(which I'm still skeptical about). even if that's true, that's 3 to 4 times the graphical prowess of things like RE4 andTwilight Princess. I think I can deal. Besides, if I want to whore myself graphically I can get a Ps3 ;).

[SpottedNigel]

Its stronger than the cube...im happy.

Of course i consider Katamari Damacy to be one of the best current gen games available, and they probably could have worked that type of magic on the original playstation later in that consoles life.

Its the controller and "other" features im stoked about.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I think Matt just had an interview with a hand puppet

If Matt is completely wrong about the Revolution specs, the world will believe him and he'll go entirely uncontradicted until May when Nintendo actually unveils the Revolution. And even after that, people will still think Matt's specs were the right one, because they saw the article on IGN but not the updates six months later. The Revolution will be out and we'll still have people going "wait, I thought I read somewhere that the Revolution has only 64 mb of RAM".

[Reality's Fringe]

I think Matt just had an interview with a hand puppet

If Matt is completely wrong about the Revolution specs, the world will believe him and he'll go entirely uncontradicted until May when Nintendo actually unveils the Revolution. And even after that, people will still think Matt's specs were the right one, because they saw the article on IGN but not the updates six months later. The Revolution will be out and we'll still have people going "wait, I thought I read somewhere that the Revolution has only 64 mb of RAM".

Miyamoto himself could fire a golden scroll containing the actual Revolution specs out of his ass as the Marine Corps band played Hail to the Chief, and people would still miss it. It's those people who only have the intent to bash the console anyway. The revo could suport 650,000i and they would still be saying things like "WTF! Nintendo is for teh kidz its got the week grafx!1". Whether or not the guy is talking out of his ass...I need more revo info. I NEED IT!

[munch]

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/673/673640/letter-from-the-editor-20051205040446162.jpg

Matt 'Manboobs' Casamassina

[Ecofreak]

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/673/673640/letter-from-the-editor-20051205040446162.jpg

Matt 'Manboobs' Casamassina

Wonderful, now every time I see his picture I'll think "Manboobs."

I tried to stay away from looking at his picture before since I didn't like to see his pug, now it'll be a matter of protecting my sanity.

[Ugamer_X]

Matt 'Manboobs' Casamassina
:rofl:
It's funny because it's true.

[Strell]

"I wish I had fo' arms....so I could give those titties fo' thumbs down!"

[Apossum]

who the hell is this guy, why is he important and what cup do you guys think he wears? seems like he's a professional rumor machine and I'm guessing a low B cup.

[shipwreck]

Honestly, they could put out a system with the same specs as the GameCube but with new Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other Nintendo exclusive franchises, and the system would do fine. While the system specs will surely be decent for the Revolution, it's safe to say that with Nintendo wanting to release the console at a lower price point, that the specs will not approach the X360 or PS3.

Oh well, I guess if hardware specs are posted tonight, it will give people something to argue about for a little while.

[gunm]

Nov. 06 seems too long especially if the PS3 launches in the spring.

It does follow history, though--the GCN came out in November in the US IIRC.

And ha ha ha to the pic of the IGN guy. It's funny how a dude with manbreasts has to have his picture taken wearing a sweater...:lol:

[b3b0p]

Now you're playing with power (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/360s-power-and-graphics-are-nice-but--141334.php)

[Skylander7]

Wonderful, now every time I see his picture I'll think "Manboobs."

I tried to stay away from looking at his picture before since I didn't like to see his pug, now it'll be a matter of protecting my sanity.

Did DragonLordFrodo get gastric bypass??

It would be interesting, IMO, if Nintendo slung itself into the market banking on lower price point on system AND games to carry it through this generation. It would definately work, regardless of increase in horsepower. It's the accessibility that they're going for, not a high end gaming PC.

[1SwtDeception]

I just want some games with some good gameplay. As long as it can PLAY that, it should be good enough specs for me. Graphics of course isn't everything, too bad America seems to want everything that looks good. But huh... I thought they weren't going to release, but eh.

[Z-Saber]

I've already seen Revolution spec threads all over that eventually turned into "Teh ps3 and teh xbox0rz 36o is more nex jenerer"!?

[SpottedNigel]

The one place that i think Nintendo is aiming at (in part) are thos TV games. Baseball with a bat, Moto X with handle bars, Bowling with a ball...all those, but with the ability to play normal games as well. The play-all machine.

[Inferno-X]

If you are a Nintendo fan, you know it's all about the gameplay. You don't get your eyecandy here. Nintendo knows what they are doing, I have no doubt of that.

[thorbahn3]

Well that didn't really offer anything new. Just a lot of "I heard this" and "I heard that", that I've already heard. I wonder though how well the Rev would sell if it was $149.99 .

[Reality's Fringe]

Well that didn't really offer anything new. Just a lot of "I heard this" and "I heard that", that I've already heard. I wonder though how well the Rev would sell if it was $149.99 .

The info hasn't been posted yet. Unless you're talking about the Article that was put up yesterday on IGN. The new stuff should be up soon. I hope.

[RelentlessRolento]

really if you boil down to it, the future outcome of game success will not be graphics (as a majority of people nowadays choose their games based off of this, but most avid gamers don't) as technology will reach its peak graphicly, but gameplay will be the new focus of companys. Our kids will probably be playing AI a million times better than what we have today, just because gameplay will be a large focus. Nintendo is already ahead of the rest of the crowd, in terms of gameplay.

[evilmax17]

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673799p1.html

[Reality's Fringe]

I also added this to the OP.




"December 6, 2005 - Just yesterday IGN Revolution launched with technical details on Nintendo's next-generation console, codenamed Revolution. And today more development sources have come forward with both clarification and even more tech specs. The latest news begins to paint a clearer picture of Nintendo's aim with its next platform.

We cannot stress this enough: Revolution is not being positioned as a competitor to either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3. Nintendo has instead chosen to design a console that will be very affordable for consumers. For that very reason, say developers in the know, the Big N has opted out of filling the system with a massive supply of expensive RAM.

In yesterday's article, we wrote that Revolution would include 128MBs of RAM, or possibly less. Developers have clarified the makeup based on officially released Nintendo documentation. Revolution will build on GameCube's configuration of 24MBs 1T-SRAM and 16MBs D-RAM (40MBs) by adding an addition 64MBs of 1T-SRAM. The result is a supply of memory in Revolution that totals 104MBs. That number does not consider either the 512MBs of allegedly accessible (but hardly ideal) Flash RAM or the Hollywood GPU's on-board memory, said to be 3MBs by sources.

Revolution's Broadway CPU, developed by IBM, is an extension of the Gekko CPU in GameCube, according to official Nintendo documentation passed to us by software houses. The Hollywood GPU, meanwhile, is believed to be an extension of the Flipper GPU in GameCube. Since developers have not gone hands-on with the GPU, they can only go on Nintendo documentation, which is limited.

Exact clock rates were not disclosed, but one development source we spoke to had this to say of the Revolution CPU and GPU: "Basically, take a GameCube, double the clock rate of the CPU and GPU and you're done."

We presented that description to another informed studio, which clarified that the clock rates may even fall short of doubling those on GameCube.

"The CPU is the same as Gekko with one and a half to two times the performance and improved caching," said a source. "Our guys experimented with it and think they'll be able to get about twice the performance as GameCube."

"It's a gamble for the Big N," said another source. "It's not about horsepower for them -- it's about innovation and gameplay."

We've also been able to unearth firm details on the storage capacity for Revolution discs. Recent rumors suggesting that the discs can hold 12GBs of data are false. In fact, Revolution discs can store 4.7GBs of data on a single layer or 8.5GBs when double-layered on a single-side. This is a massive jump from the 1.5GB capacity of GameCube discs and more than enough storage capacity for any non-high-definition game.

Readers discouraged by Revolution's seeming lack of horsepower when compared to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 should remember that Nintendo is not interested in competing in the high-definition gaming arena, and as a standard-definition console, Revolution is more than capable. Capcom's Resident Evil 4 remains one of the most gorgeous games this generation and it ran on GameCube, a console at least half as powerful according to developer reports.

Software houses we spoke with also waxed on the immediate advantage to Nintendo's approach with Revolution, which is, of course, system price. Every developer was in agreement that Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.

Stay tuned for more as it develops."

Taken with Mucho salto.

[SilverPaw750]

I don't mind low horsepower if it retails for $149...I would actually buy that on launch :D

[elprincipe]

Wow, $100-150 sounds awesome to the cheapass in me. As a regular user on this site, I like to feel the inner cheapass in me is strong.

So what are you all waiting for? Go sell your 360 for $500, then buy it back in a few months and have enough left over for a Revo!

[wubb]

I'd love to see Nintendo really pull this off. I still have doubts that 3rd parties will really support the unique aspects of the controller and gameplay. I see most games made for PS3 with some/most ported to the 360 and a share of those shoe-horned onto the Rev. But if it does come together I'm sure I'll be picking one up at some point in '07.

No high end HD support is a bit of a drag (although I don't have a nice HD set right now I do plan on getting one someday...) but if it means a cheaper price I can deal.

[orphicblue]

I'm gonna have to mull this one over, but I'll go out on a limb and say that they're going to make a killing with the Revolution. Casual gamers are going to love the price point and the recognizable franchises, and hardcore gamers are going to go for the innovation and the old school game compatibility features. I'm sure that there will be a few A/V nuts who will turn their nose up at it, but I really think this is the ideal "2nd" console to have beside your powerhouse 360 and/or PS3.

Who here is NOT going to pick this up after seeing the 360's pricetag???

[Ecofreak]

Wholly cow - I can only begin to imagine the resulting splash should the Revolution launch at $150, let alone $100. That's comparable to, or less expensive than a DS!!!

At that price point, it gives little reason for people on the fence to wait it out.

Which is spectacular strategy when you think about it...

Consider that it will still take 3-4 years before HTDV takes a substantial part of the market. By that point, the 360 and PS3 will more than likely have dropped in price point, making it more competitive w/ the Revolution.

But it won't matter, because the Revolution will have used those 3-4 years when only a small percentage of the population has HD TV to build up its user base, when people won't care about its lack of HD capabilities.

It really will be geared towards a compliment to PS3 or the 360, not direct competition.

Bravo to Nintendo if this actually pans out!

[SpottedNigel]

Since i'll probably be paying for my own place by then, this would work out great!

[RelentlessRolento]

no matter how low the specs would be for the Rev, if it sold between $100 and $150 I would be all over it. If they do the pricing like they have done fo rthe DS, it will be a great affordable system. Hoora!

[Saucy Jack]

The $100-150 possible price sounds terrific. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Nintendo has planned for us.

[Ecofreak]

Also, at the price point and the resulting potential market penetration, I see little reason why other companies wouldn't make ports to the Revolution - thus shoring up 3rd party support.

I sense some genius coming on...

[MadChedar0]

I dont know what to think, but maybe the lower system requirements, and the fact its an extension of a known architecture will allow cost conscious, or small time developers to create games for the Revolution. Maybe this is a good thing.

I really just want to use the nuchaku setup to kill people in a FPS/Metroid game.

[Apossum]

really if you boil down to it, the future outcome of game success will not be graphics (as a majority of people nowadays choose their games based off of this, but most avid gamers don't) as technology will reach its peak graphicly, but gameplay will be the new focus of companys. Our kids will probably be playing AI a million times better than what we have today, just because gameplay will be a large focus. Nintendo is already ahead of the rest of the crowd, in terms of gameplay.


Couldn't agree more :) I can't wait until the graphics war is over.

[Jrunt20x]

I love the sound of a $99 system. Heck you can even buy two 360 games for that. So what would one rather have two games or a brand new console? I'm psyched about this.

[ryanbph]

well i was planning on picking one up, but some of the comments about the casual gamer will love the pricing at the 100 - 150, I don't know about that statement, as isn't the casual gamer all about games such as madden. And for the on the fence people, I would imagine it will come down to will there be enough games to warrant a purchase. Yes I plan on getting one, but if there isn't a crop of games to make someone go and buy one for the first year or so, the big n most likely won't make a big push into being a 2nd console. It all comes down to does the system have games, and a fair amount of them, that the consumer will want.

[evilmax17]

well i was planning on picking one up, but some of the comments about the casual gamer will love the pricing at the 100 - 150, I don't know about that statement, as isn't the casual gamer all about games such as madden. And for the on the fence people, I would imagine it will come down to will there be enough games to warrant a purchase. Yes I plan on getting one, but if there isn't a crop of games to make someone go and buy one for the first year or so, the big n most likely won't make a big push into being a 2nd console. It all comes down to does the system have games, and a fair amount of them, that the consumer will want.
I think it's more that the nongamer will love it. Old people, females, people you wouldn't think to buy a system now, will find it easier to adopt. Especially when titles like Nintendogs Revolution come out, you'll see a lot of people buying a Revolution that you wouldn't have expected.

[Ecofreak]

I think it's more that the nongamer will love it. Old people, females, people you wouldn't think to buy a system now, will find it easier to adopt. Especially when titles like Nintendogs Revolution come out, you'll see a lot of people buying a Revolution that you wouldn't have expected.

Nintendogs Revolution...that would cause some serious insanity - what with the new controller interface.

[Rig]

I had no problem dropping $200 for my GC...

I'll have no problem dropping $200 (or less?!) for Rev.

[zionoverfire]

Also, at the price point and the resulting potential market penetration, I see little reason why other companies wouldn't make ports to the Revolution - thus shoring up 3rd party support.


Because it won't be powerful enough to play the games perhaps?

[ryanbph]

Nintendogs Revolution...that would cause some serious insanity - what with the new controller interface.
I don't know, yes some will get into it, but how many more...it all comes down to games, and if they don't have them, no matter how cool the controller are. IT NEEDS TO MOVE MORE UNITS THEN THE CUBE DID. One can't say it will/won't be successful now as we don't have a list of games that actually will hit the store shelves, hopefully the comments by shiggy about more suprises at e3 will be the thing that will make this a must have system. The article was on gamespot

[nwaugh]

If they could get it above the 1st Xbox's capabilities, then publishers could do easy ports with better antialiasing (and many some other bonuses) and the Revolution could quickly build a quality library of games will little capital. It might be a "best of" the previous generation, or maybe a collection of overlooked gems.

[orphicblue]

It all comes down to does the system have games, and a fair amount of them, that the consumer will want.

You're absolutely right. But we're talking Nintendo here - we've already got potential for Smash Brothers, Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Star Fox, et al. Every one of these could easily be killer apps.

(Here's hoping for a big Kid Icarus comeback too)

[alongx]

As it is, I think we've hit the problem of diminishing returns. Even with consoles 10x, 20x, etc., more powerful than the current generation, it just doesn't look that much better. I could give a shit if the Revolution is just an Xbox in a SFF case for that reason, it all looks the same to me. I just wish the other guys were playing it a little bit riskier.

[1SwtDeception]

You're absolutely right. But we're talking Nintendo here - we've already got potential for Smash Brothers, Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Star Fox, et al. Every one of these could easily be killer apps.

(Here's hoping for a big Kid Icarus comeback too)

That's true Nintendo has most of its own support anyways. It would be an added plus to get a lot more 3rd parties.

I want to preorder ASAP (I'm sure everyone does). I would put $250 for this system, but wow 100 dollars cheaper super nice. I hope nothing would be too expensive like $75 dollars for each game. I wouldn't mind buying different parts for the controller or anything.

[wildnuts02]

my only question is: IS EA G OING TO DEVELOP GAMES FOR THE REVO? and i'm not asking this b/c i'm a fan of EA.

[Robobandit]

I was buying one anyway, but this price point makes it all the more attractive. Bring on the Revolution :)

[Reality's Fringe]

I'm wondering if with the lower system specs at 2X Gamecube power (which I still don't really believe. I'd bet on the previous mentions of 3X. Then again, I don't know how 2x the gamecube's power would be a bad thing) they will be selling at a loss with the $100-$150 price point. If they move the systems with a profit, at that price tag, they'll have a pretty big advantage. I'm pretty excited for it, and the fact that it won't take a week of work to buy(or if you're the Ps3, maybe more) just sweetens the pot.

[Scobie]

I can just imagine the crazy smile on Miyamoto's face about the positive reaction to this news.

It would be hilarious to see a $99 launch price with *free* on-line gaming plus games priced no higher than $50 (maybe even a bunch at $40) and Nintendo totally owning MS and Sony.

[Dkellar]

I cannot wait. The excitement is too much...

[Vinny]

I am rather disappointed by the specs.. no, I wasn't expecting anything anywhere near the 360 or PS2. But the system's barely twice as powerful as a GC? A freakin' 4+ year old GC? Come on... I was expecting it to be a solid 3x powerful than the GC (as Nintendo stated beforehand).

They're taking a hell of a risk here... with such a low price point, they won't have an advantage once their competitors reach that range and they can't lower their price anymore (which, needless to say, will be at least 3-4 years after the Rev's launch). And I hope that games for the Rev are much cheaper than $50... if the team behind CoD2 for the 360 (which is incredibly more powerful than the Xbox) can price a game at $60, then a that same team should be able to deliver a Rev game for $40... or at least I hope so.

At least developers will have ample space for... who knows what. A game without HD support and such weak graphics shouldn't be hard to fit on 4.7GB disc, at least that gives the developer the option to put in tons of extra content.

Here's hoping for a cheap console and cheaper ($40 range) games... otherwise, I don't know if I'll buy a Rev at launch.

[b3b0p]

$99!?!?

Wow! These things will be like candy.

[ryanbph]

You're absolutely right. But we're talking Nintendo here - we've already got potential for Smash Brothers, Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Star Fox, et al. Every one of these could easily be killer apps.


yes a killer ap for people that already love nintendo, I don't picture the casual gamer as someone that visits online video game sites. Nintendo needs to make the revolution to be the system of choice for the consumers 2nd console, as well as attract non gamers to the scene...a price point of $100 - $150 is a good start, but is that enough. Did the DS really bring in a bunch of the non gaming crowd? I don't know the answers, but I believe Nintendo's president already stated if the revolution doesn't surpass the sales of the cube, it would be a failure. I hope they have the games to make the hardcore happy, as well as draw in the non gaming crowd

[depascal22]

I'm all about the Revolution now! It seems like the perfect system for my daughter and I to play together. At that price, it can't be beat. Screw the power and all that jazz. We grew up with the Atari, NES, and Genesis and we didn't complain about the graphics sucking back then.

It's even more exciting that small studios and developers might be able to make Revolution exclusives. Anything that encourages creativity should be encouraged at all costs. I plan on picking one up at launch now.

It'll be very interesting to see how this "war" turns out. We might see all 3 systems take a third of the market and diversify the gaming experience. I'll be getting all 3 but I'll be getting Sony last instead of first this time. I'm still debating if I should wait until '07 to get the 360.

It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer.

[RelentlessRolento]

anyone else think this news is really good for indie devlopers? I've been working with some game development tools lately, and I have recently been thinking of making stuff for the 360 and now this, as long as it is affordable.

[munch]

I'm all about the Revolution now! It seems like the perfect system for my daughter and I to play together. At that price, it can't be beat. Screw the power and all that jazz. We grew up with the Atari, NES, and Genesis and we didn't complain about the graphics sucking back then.


It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer.

First, is anyone else sick of the "It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer" line?

alright, when i was little i had a nintendo. It was the greatest thing ever. But then i saw what a SNES looked like and i thought wow, those graphics are amazing. In fact, that's all I ever talked about when i had a SNES and my friends didn't. I used to rub in their faces that my console had 16 bits and their's only had 8. My point is graphics DO matter to a certain extent and they mattered a lot back then. But they aren't everything.

[Dr Mario Kart]

"Take the clockrate of the CPU and GPU and double it"? Man, what? That doesn't even make sense. The Gamecube CPU was 485 mhz. That would mean that the Revolution chip runs at under a gigahertz. Does IBM even make chips that speed anymore? The slowest macintosh you can buy is running at 1.25 ghz. It doesn't seem like they'd even be saving money by running at anything less than that.

Of course, the funny thing is, if the Revolution CPU was around 1 ghz, then this probably implies that rather than being PPE-based like the Xenon and Cell, the Rev CPU is G5 or POWER5 based. I would actually find this quite interesting, as I could seriously conceive of a 1.25 ghz G5 core outperforming a 3.5 ghz PPE core under the right circumstances. I would be quite curious to see whether this was the case in practice ^_^

"Take the clockrate of the CPU and GPU and double it" ....

So if that's all there is to it, why did it take IBM more than a year to develop the CPU and the GPU is still under development at ATi? Given that they're ordering custom fabbed chips, I doubt they're just mildly faster versions of the current chips.

on the GPU basically being just a slightly faster version of the GCN's.

The GCN graphics chip was developed by ArtX, a company comprised of members of SGI who originally made the Reality Engine for the N64. Halfway through the development of the new chip for the GCN , ArtX got bought by ATi, but the deal held. Nintendo got its GCN graphics chip, and ATi got the basis of the Radeon graphics card line.

Now the Radeon has been through something like 4 or 5 major architecture revisions since then, and ATi is making the chip for the Revolution again. Do you think they'd use a now 5 year old chip archetecture for their next gen system?

Furthermore, Xbox 360 alpha kits were supposedly about 1/4 as powerful as the final unit, but Revolution alpha kits are exactly representative of how the console will perform at launch? The GPU doesnt actually exist yet.

[b3b0p]

After SNES I did not need a new console. The graphics on SNES are plenty good enough for me.

Super Mario World is the most beautiful game ever. I love those colorful little sprites.

[Demontooth]

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/673/673640/letter-from-the-editor-20051205040446162.jpg

Matt 'Manboobs' Casamassina

What a terrible shirt choice

oh...and I'm buying into this hype BIG TIME. At $99, I could buy the Revolution as Christmas presents.

[Graystone]

So the Revolution being a supped-up GCN rumors are not false. However I have no problems with this.

[Ikohn4ever]

i am more curious about the secrets of the system or controller that miyamoto was talking about

[chosen1s]

First, is anyone else sick of the "It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer" line?

alright, when i was little i had a nintendo. It was the greatest thing ever. But then i saw what a SNES looked like and i thought wow, those graphics are amazing. In fact, that's all I ever talked about when i had a SNES and my friends didn't. I used to rub in their faces that my console had 16 bits and their's only had 8. My point is graphics DO matter to a certain extent and they mattered a lot back then. But they aren't everything.


I'm the exact opposite. I remember getting an SNES and not really noticing a major change in the graphics. I was young then. Looking back now of course I can see the difference. But all I care about is that the games are fun

I do agree graphics make SOME difference, but when I consider Super Metroid, Super Mario World, Tetris Attack, Contra, Tecmo Super Bowl, Baseball Stars, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 2 & 3 (SNES), the entire Sega Master System quirky collection (especially their sports games), Worms Armageddon, all the Mario's and how could I leave off the greatness that was and is the original Zelda - I have to say, gameplay so far out-ranks graphics as to make them an afterthought in my assessment of a game. For me, the vast majority of today's "beautiful" games fall short of these classics, all of which would have very poor graphics compared to what we have today.

I've played HUNDREDS of BEAUTIFUL games with poor gameplay and never said to myself "Well, the game was no fun, but it sure looked pretty so I'm glad I spent XYZ hours playing it".

On the other hand, I have played a number of games whose graphics were highly sub-standard (especially compared to today's monster systems) but gameplay was fantastic - and I have NEVER said to myself "Well that game was extremely fun but because the graphics sucked I regret spending XYZ hours playing it."

I'm disappointed that people put so much weight on graphics only because selfishly I wish that game companies couldn't get away with releasing beautiful games that aren't fun. It's like people buying cars because they're pretty. Never mind there are only 3 wheels on it and it runs on a lawn-mower engine - it looks like a BMW! You know if car companies could get away with it they would, and why expect game companies to be any different? I'd rather them spend the bulk of their time on gameplay and if they have time, work on perfecting every little sprite at the end. My 2 cents...

[guardian_owl]

I rented the Super Nes and the first game i ever played for it was Super Castlevania. What struck me the was most improved was not the graphics, but the sound. It jumped from bleeps and blips, to quasi-orchastra style music score. Next thing I noticed were the graphic improvement, better sprites, multiple moving planes. Good times, good times.

[DomLando]

Graphics are def not everything. But who would of thought that the GC could pull off games like RE4, Metroid Prime, and now the new Zelda. They say it's only 2 times as powerful as the GC but they also said that the GC was half the power of xbox and ps2. RE4 on GC looks just as good or better than any Xbox game. I just think now it's all talk. When i see the games then i can form an opinion. I hate specs!!! Just show me some games. Guess we will have to wait until E3 for that. May just seems so far away....

[Z-Saber]

Miyamoto is my bishi.

[evanft]

Furthermore, Xbox 360 alpha kits were supposedly about 1/4 as powerful as the final unit, but Revolution alpha kits are exactly representative of how the console will perform at launch? The GPU doesnt actually exist yet.

They're referring to documentation supplied by Nintendo to developers. Obviously, developers need to know what kind of power they will eventually have access to.

What I'm really excited about is the possible $149 or maybe $99 price point. I'm gonna buy one at launch if that's the price.

[1SwtDeception]

On the other hand, I have played a number of games whose graphics were highly sub-standard (especially compared to today's monster systems) but gameplay was fantastic - and I have NEVER said to myself "Well that game was extremely fun but because the graphics sucked I regret spending XYZ hours playing it."

I'm disappointed that people put so much weight on graphics only because selfishly I wish that game companies couldn't get away with releasing beautiful games that aren't fun. It's like people buying cars because they're pretty. Never mind there are only 3 wheels on it and it runs on a lawn-mower engine - it looks like a BMW! You know if car companies could get away with it they would, and why expect game companies to be any different? I'd rather them spend the bulk of their time on gameplay and if they have time, work on perfecting every little sprite at the end. My 2 cents...

I do have to agree on this.

People tend to care about gameplay after the graphics. The first thing they see "Oh that looks nice". It's understandable to base some thought into graphics, but yea.. solely basing on that seems totally "just like America/Japan/Europe anywhere else".

/begins small rant
Everything is somehow based on looks. It's so much like human nature to want to look good, from airbrushed model to buildings and apparels. It's like this example "would you want comfort or class (clothes to wear) when you walk outside?" For me I pick comfort any damn day, but the majority of the world would pick class (okay countries that have the money to be able to nice or something) something that looks good. I only think a minority of people don't ACTUALLY care on how they look, whether it is being "scrubby" or "nice sweats". And it goes for gaming, except there shouldn't be a minority of people who pick gameplay over graphics. I think there's more people to it. But yea I have to say as long as you can play it and look at something nice, you should be set.
/end

People can make judgements all that want on graphics, but you can only improve so much anyways. Sure it's not up to the "almighty 360 or PS3", but Nintendo has a good aim for what should matter. Hopefully the Rev or whatever they want to call it, better be up to that gameplay angle.

Oh yea Nintendo, although they didn't get the number one feature in their system, they have the advantage economically to what matters most in everything: its low price range. I think in more of "cheaper units sell more>expensive pretty things less selling" since not everyone can go out and buy $500 dollar systems, but whatever works works.

[Jerichoedge]

The one problem I see with this is the fact that elsewhere on the IGN site they're stating that Nintendo is talking of a Thanksgiving 2006 release. Depending on when the PS3 came out, that could be either a huge mistake or a huge advantage. If the PS3 comes out in the summer, it gives people enough time to get over the initial hype of the PS3 and also time to save up for the Revolution (which, if it's $99, won't be that hard). If PS3 release at the same time of the Revolution, I think Nintendo is done.

[depascal22]

First, is anyone else sick of the "It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer" line?

alright, when i was little i had a nintendo. It was the greatest thing ever. But then i saw what a SNES looked like and i thought wow, those graphics are amazing. In fact, that's all I ever talked about when i had a SNES and my friends didn't. I used to rub in their faces that my console had 16 bits and their's only had 8. My point is graphics DO matter to a certain extent and they mattered a lot back then. But they aren't everything.


What's the problem with my tagline??? I don't have the crazy or cool quotes. I just have something I came up with myself that I think captures my identity here on the website. I've saved myself a lot of money since I've found this site and I'm grateful. I'm optimistic about very few things on this world but cheap ass gaming has me feeling good right now. Although I'm glad someone notices my tag line, I wish they would share my enthusiasm for cheap ass gaming. If you still don't like it after all this, suck these muthafucking nutz. Peace out.


It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer.

[munch]

What's the problem with my tagline??? I don't have the crazy or cool quotes. I just have something I came up with myself that I think captures my identity here on the website. I've saved myself a lot of money since I've found this site and I'm grateful. I'm optimistic about very few things on this world but cheap ass gaming has me feeling good right now. Although I'm glad someone notices my tag line, I wish they would share my enthusiasm for cheap ass gaming. If you still don't like it after all this, suck these muthafucking nutz. Peace out.


It's a great time to be a cheap ass gamer.

Present them.

[wageslave]

Perhaps at around $150 they will hit a sweetspot between price and performance. Being a casual gamer I don't really want to drop $400 for a console.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Ha! Let's call him Cardigan Man-boobs.

[BustaUppa]

I was intrigued before, but I think I am officially "sold" on the Revolution now. This may very well be the first system I ever buy at launch.

And after skimming this thread, it's obvious that I'm not alone in my sentiments. It's funny how a lot of us seem to have gone through the same thought process while reading that article. First I was thinking "hey, I might go for this when it hits $200." Then they announce the alleged price of $150 or less and I was like "holy crap, well count me in!"

This will be sweet. I am especially looking forward to the games that will let you hold a remote control in each hand. And it will be nice to know that my wavebirds won't go to waste. I'll definitley want a 360/PS3 as well but I'm taking a "wait and see" approach with those.

[javeryh]

I don't think there is anything Nintendo can do to tap this so-called "casual gamer" group. the Revolution might be different but I think most people aren't going to see it and think, "You know what? I've never bought a console or video games before but I think I'll buy this." I just think that these types of people are about one out of 1,000 or less. The only difference I think it will make is maybe my dad will try it if he is over my house or something because it's unusual but he will never in a million years go out and buy one.

[Puffa469]

Developers concentrate on making great looking graphics because its hard to look at screenshots and vids and get a sense of the gameplay. People dont walk by a game kiosk in a store and go 'wow, that game looks like it plays great'.

First impressions are based on looks. How do you buy clothes, shoes, a toaster? If theyre warm and comfortable and make great toast thats great, but they initially attracted you because they look good. Same deal with a girlfriend/boyfriend, you dont know at first if someeone is going to be your best friend and soulmate, you just think they look good. Its the same thing with games.

That said, I dont think theres anything wrong with the way gamecube games look, and the prospect of something thats 2 or 3 times more powerful is very exciting to me.

The 360 may be 100X more powerful than the Xbox, but the games dont look 100x better. Like others have said, its diminishing returns. Sure these 360 games are merely first gen launch tiltes, but to me they look good enough. RE4 for the cube looks amazing to me. I dont have HD flatscreen tv, and probably wont for at least another 2-3 years. Thats where I think alot of the 360 and PS3's power will be spent, processing those super high-res images.

[SpottedNigel]

Old people, no. I can see them buying it for the grandkids, or playing along elsewhere, but not just for themselves...unless of course the games are really well aimed at age groups and include Bingo, Solitare and Matlock.

Girls i could see being a new breed of gamer though. (Attention female CAG's: I mean the sterotypical "games are for dorks!" girls) I know that Nintendogs changed the perception of some girls i know, and yet again, with the right software and advertising, Revolution could do the same thing

[javeryh]

Old people, no. I can see them buying it for the grandkids, or playing along elsewhere, but not just for themselves...unless of course the games are really well aimed at age groups and include Bingo, Solitare and Matlock.

Girls i could see being a new breed of gamer though. (Attention female CAG's: I mean the sterotypical "games are for dorks!" girls) I know that Nintendogs changed the perception of some girls i know, and yet again, with the right software and advertising, Revolution could do the same thing

I hope you are right. I think there is great potential with the Revolution. I will be buying it at launch (like every other Nintendo system) but my expectations have shifted. I'm looking at it as a complimentary system to either the 360 or PS3 (or maybe both!) and not something that I should be comparing to the latest and greatest.

[the3rdkey]

Regardless of what they release I will buy it like the video game buying fool I am. I always buy all the systems and pc stuff so I will not miss a single great video game experience.

[SpottedNigel]

I hope you are right. I think there is great potential with the Revolution. I will be buying it at launch (like every other Nintendo system) but my expectations have shifted. I'm looking at it as a complimentary system to either the 360 or PS3 (or maybe both!) and not something that I should be comparing to the latest and greatest.

I agree to a point. For me, the 360 isnt to promising FOR ME (have to point out opinions for others...) in the games department...the style and front end are very, very well done, but that alone doesnt deserve $400+ from me. PS3...i honestly have NO clue of what the hell they are doing. The REVO will probably be my sole next-next-gen systems for quite some time. The prospect of new experiences (love my DS) and all the games I love playing (yep, i'll pay for the classics and the new ones) all in one system really does make it my "all in one" system of choice.

That baing said...If Phantasy Star Universe gets continued on one of those other 2 systems, i will follow in a heartbeat. One of the few series thats actually a system seller for me.

[chimpian]

a $99 launch console..... very very appealing in my eyes, but hopefully it wont be a stripped down pile with a corded controller
then a $200 package, wireless wonder like other companies seem to be doing

ill be keeping my eyes open for info

thanks all for the updates :-D

[jkam]

The price point sounds low. I would expect it to be around $200 upon launch.

I think almost everyone is missing the whole idea of the revolution though. We already know it won't be a graphical powerhouse. However it will be a GAMING POWERHOUSE.

I see it as a machine with more content than any other system right off the bat.

Here's why:

We will get old school games in downloadable form. There's the possibility for them to create updated graphics to older games as well make them online compatible.

For every single this game won't work with this controller argument we have use of gamecube controllers plus the shell idea. I realize the XBOX 360 controller is a little different than the current xbox one but has it really changed that much? Sony could get away with using the playstation 1 pad (dual analog) forever. So basically the gamecube controller could be used for any 3rd party game as well.

New content revolving around the new controller. I see the new controller as the DS's touch screen. Yeah weird and somewhat gimmicky but could work well if done right. You know Nintendo will do a good job with it. The main thing is that (just like the DS) it doesn't HAVE to be the only way new games are played on the system....I think developers will have their choice to either use it or a gamecube controller.

Online: Yeah this isn't new but Nintendo has the right idea with the DS. If they carry over what they have started from the DS we will indeed be in good shape. Online Smash Bros., Metroid, Zelda? and all for free? Count me in.

Free downloadable demos? I always thought Sony was smart to constantly give out PS1+2 demos in the form of discs. Now nintendo can do it online without the need to press discs. They could also do DS demos as well as Revo ones.

DS - REVO connectivity....yeah it failed on the Gamecube for the most part but with the DS and REVO both being wireless a lot of the hassle of the GBA - Cube connection will be nixed. Not groundbreaking but won't be such a pain in the ass.

Smaller developers will find a new home. If they can't afford to do an xbox 360 or PS3 game they might be able to do it on the Revolution.

There are some more things I think need to happen:

Get third parties to offer up their old games in downloadable fashion as well. I can't imagine any company not wanting to offer older games at no cost to them and begin making them money a second time around.

Get third parties back on board. It seems that some developers are excitied about the REVO but they need to get everyone interested.

Push the price point.

Have top titles ready at launch.

Just like the DS I see the Revolution being a machine all about content rather than being about raw horsepower.

[javeryh]

Get third parties to offer up their old games in downloadable fashion as well. I can't imagine any company not wanting to offer older games at no cost to them and begin making them money a second time around.

Get third parties back on board. It seems that some developers are excitied about the REVO but they need to get everyone interested.

These go hand-in-hand. Nintendo should say to companies like Konami, Capcom, EA, etc.: develop some exclusive Revolution games and in return we will list your back catalogs on our download service and we won't take a percentage or charge a fee to you out of the money made off of the old games.

[Strell]

These go hand-in-hand. Nintendo should say to companies like Konami, Capcom, EA, etc.: develop some exclusive Revolution games and in return we will list your back catalogs on our download service and we won't take a percentage or charge a fee to you out of the money made off of the old games.

Damn, that's actually a great idea. Except not Capcom, since they are fuckers about the whole "exclusitivity" thing.

Capcom> OH LOOK, 360 CASE IS GRAY, NOT BLACK. NOT SAME THING ROFLOALFOLM

/I lie, gimme exclusives capcom :(

[SpottedNigel]

The only problem i see with Revolution and 3rd party clasic games is that a lot of those companies have already signed on with Gametap. No clue on exclusivity, but there just has to be problems somewhere

[javeryh]

The only problem i see with Revolution and 3rd party clasic games is that a lot of those companies have already signed on with Gametap. No clue on exclusivity, but there just has to be problems somewhere

They most likely signed non-exclusive license agreeements. I can't imagine a scenario where a major publisher would give an unproven company exclusive rights to IP for any length of time. If Nintendo wanted exclusivity for their download service (to compete with Xbox Live, for example) they could do so with a carve out for Gametap since agreements might already exist. I don't think it would be too much trouble to do.

[troa11]

Who said the Cube was half the power of the XBox and PS2?

The Cube is more powerful than the PS2 and slightly less than the XBox. Stupid common impressions.

[Blind the Thief]

At this point, I find myself far more excited about Nintendo's console than anything Sony or Microsoft are doing. I know it won't be my only console, but Nintendo has essentially cemented it's spot as ONE of the consoles I'll own next generation. And unless PS3 launches with something impossible to resist...well, perhaps the Revolution will be the only next-gen console I own for awhile.

[daroga]

At this point, I find myself far more excited about Nintendo's console than anything Sony or Microsoft are doing. I know it won't be my only console, but Nintendo has essentially cemented it's spot as ONE of the consoles I'll own next generation. And unless PS3 launches with something impossible to resist...well, perhaps the Revolution will be the only next-gen console I own for awhile.

Bingo. They've proven the critics wrong with the DS. It's an amazing gaming machine with simply unbelievable games. I've enjoyed DS games more than anything I've played on Xbox/PS2/GC. And that's saying something, Ninja Gaiden is amazing.

[Supercake]

I have high hopes for the Revo. I always wonder just what developers can do to impress, and then out of nowhere, games come out that I never even imagined. The remote is going to be a freakin blast, and I have faith in developers to create some amazing games. Classic games on the Revo is nothing to me since emulation has spoiled me, unless they can tie in the remote to make them more playable.

[Zoglog]

I love how people criticize developers for focusing far too much on graphics and compromising gameplay.

Just wait when they start making new games on this controller. It will spawn far more gimmicky crappy games than graphics ever have.

So I guess the summary is that Nintendo is moving more towards the joystick plugin type games that are user accessable and use cheap parts =)

[Z-Saber]

Just wait when they start making new games on this controller. It will spawn far more gimmicky crappy games than graphics ever have.
Just like the DS, right?

[Ecofreak]

So I guess the summary is that Nintendo is moving more towards the joystick plugin type games that are user accessable and use cheap parts =)

Cheap parts? Nintendo systems and hardware are by far the most robust systems on the market. While PS2s and Xboxes were crashing and having DREs, I have heard surprisingly few stories of GCs breaking down.

You go enjoy your 360 and its HD graphics. Come back when you're bored of looking at pretty pictures and want to play more innovative games that arn't ports.

Seriously, why do you come in these threads and troll without saying anything really worthwhile? Please - go away.

[SpottedNigel]

I love how people criticize developers for focusing far too much on graphics and compromising gameplay.

Just wait when they start making new games on this controller. It will spawn far more gimmicky crappy games than graphics ever have.

So I guess the summary is that Nintendo is moving more towards the joystick plugin type games that are user accessable and use cheap parts =)

No, dipshit. Instead of throwing a cheap controller and a crap NES game at you for $40-$60 (Baseball bat, handlebars...) like they do now at Kmart/Walmart/Target/TRU, Your getting a quality controller (it IS nintendo) and hypothetically a quality looking game as well.

I'm still having a problem with people thinking that a system that we will be able to do RE4 x 2 (simple way of thinking, i know) will look like shit. It can still look pretty damn good

[redgopher]

Be prepared to be disappointed in the actual horsepower of the Rev.

That's not really the god damn point, is it?

[Reality's Fringe]

Just like the DS, right?

Ding ding. I swear when I saw the DS, the first thing I thought was "Oh great, here come the PDA ports". I was mistaken, SORELY mistaken. Of course there are going to be gimmicky crap games, but how is the fact that they are based around a control mechanism make them any worse than one's that aren't? I'd rather have the gimmick based on the control rather than a half-assed piece of tripe that looks AND plays poorly. Regardless, I am still skeptical of these specs and expect them to be higher when revealed by Nintendo themselves. I don't know, but I don't quite trust "Titties".
I do agree with ZogLog on the fact that graf-X are important to a degree (which is why games don't have just 16 colors), but if the game is frustrating and poorly conceived then I could get them same experience looking at rendered art gallery's on the internet while I'm being bitched at and hit with a dick. As my gaming preferences are becoming more and more narrow, I think the Revo could be just what I need. Contrary to most people, right now the Gamecube is my primary console and the PS2 is my supplement.

[sarausagi]

I'm not trying to flame, but with all this talk of "Nintendo getting the classic gamer" and what not, I really wonder if any of you realize the games that the casual gamer cares for.

The true casual gamer, in other words, one who has never been devoted to games, never followed them, one who doesn't read magazines or websites about them...

This is the type of person who might have bought a used Playstation cheap to play Parappa the Rapper and Tekken. Or the type of person who plays Tetris on their computer..or better yet...

I know several girls who say "games are for dorks!" or whatever. Girls who think games are nerdy, stupid, etc. Yet I catch them on Yahoo for hours playing "Dots" or "Bejeweled"..

Casual gamers, they're the people who spend hours playing Texas Hold Em online but think someone who spends a night with an RPG or playing Counterstrike is beneath them

Does Nintendo really target them? No. The true casual gamer doesn't have a love affair with Nintendo characters, he won't buy every title with the word "Mario" in it, he won't drool over every "new" installment of Zelda, he looks at "Metroid" and thinks it's just another shooter.

People see the Revolution user interface as revoluitonary? But what's the difference? Nintendo's had strange controllers since it started out: ROB, Powerglove, Super Scope, Mouse, the Virtual Boy set up, and all the weird [mostly Pokemon] controllers on Nintendo 64.

You want Revolution? Look at how much Eyetoy's improved on the PS2. Have any of you tried Play 2 or Kinetic? I did, I sold my original eyetoy a few weeks after it came out but I was throughly impressed how much it's improved in the past year..

Or look at the way Microsoft changed online game play as far as console goes. I don't like FPS games, god, I don't even like the Xbox, but Xbox Live is pretty "revolutionary", it's the Saturn-Net Sega always dreamed of, it's the X-Link and Sega Channel which failed in the 16 bit games, they got it right, they did it, and on top of that actually made money on it, that's "revolution"

The casual gamer is attracted by things like this, not only do they appear to the involved gamer, but things like X-box Live and Eyetoy make it more attractive to play video games. The casual gamer looks at Eyetoy and thinks "I can be part of the game, I can move around and have some fun with this". The casual gamer looks at Xbox live and says, "I can talk to my friends, meet new people, and explore new worlds through Live"

The casual gamer doesn't say, "Ooh! An even glossier, shiny happy looking Mario gets to jump through 50 new stages!" or "Yay! Link gets another cool power and looks different yet again and gets to save the princess!" In fact, not even all involved gamers get excited about that...

The casual gamer sees a cute puppy rapping, they're interested. The casual gamer sees a game you can get into physically [like DDR or any of the eyetoys] and they're interested. The casual gamer might even see a game with realistic looking graphics, strong themes, and a good story line, and they might want to be able to interact with something they'd typically only see on TV or in a movie.

It may hurt the fanboys, but you know how Nintendo might actually win a "console war"? A changing of the guard. No one can deny Nintendo has more talent than most every developer out there COMBINED. Yet for the casual gamer, or the involved gamer who grew up with Sonic instead of Mario, or those that simply like more serious games, the current ways of Nintendo simply don't work. THEY'RES SEVEN MARIO PARTIES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. There's a Mario game for EVERY SPORT.

New projects, new games. Have Nintendo make a real fighter, a serious racer, a traditional RPG, some in house sports games that don't get cancelled, an action game starring someone other than Link, maybe another FPS with the mass appeal of Goldeneye, and lots of innovative, quirky games that aren't victims to the curse of mascots and pastels. Or even that, do things that haven't been done 7 times. A real Pokemon RPG in full 3d with online play, a Kid Icarus game for all the 80's kids, an update to Killer Instinct, a full version of Advance Wars, a real Final Fantasy on a real console, another Stunt Race game, some Pilotwings or a Waverace that's actually worth buying.

Okay, yeah, so I got bored at school..

I'm eagerly awaiting my Christmas present [a pink DS] and have a small small stack of GBA games ready to play. Nintendo's got it right on the hand held side, not one loss, all W's, even the DS proved a success [and has like 10 games coming out or already out I'm dying to play, that's a lot for a handheld]

[kakomu]

Is there actually confirmation from any source that we can use a GC controller with the Revolution? If that's the case, I'd be totally on board.

I'll be honest. THe new controller makes me a little leery. I like the idea of new ways to play games with different controllers. However, I also like the comfort I get from controller styles i've grown up with.

In terms of graphics, I don't really care that much. All the games that come out nowadays are pretty good looking, and I seriously doubt that games coming out on the next gen consoles are going to be so much better that I have to buy a new console.

Also, it appears that, graphically, none of the consoles are really pioneering anything new. The only pioneering features I can see from this last generation were a jump from 20-30 fps to 60 fps and high res graphics, both made by Sega on the DC (while the Xbox may have done HD first, the DC made use of the VGA box to output high res graphics).

[onetrackmind]

I'm not trying to flame, but with all this talk of "Nintendo getting the classic gamer" and what not, I really wonder if any of you realize the games that the casual gamer cares for.

The true casual gamer, in other words, one who has never been devoted to games, never followed them, one who doesn't read magazines or websites about them...

This is the type of person who might have bought a used Playstation cheap to play Parappa the Rapper and Tekken. Or the type of person who plays Tetris on their computer..or better yet...

I know several girls who say "games are for dorks!" or whatever. Girls who think games are nerdy, stupid, etc. Yet I catch them on Yahoo for hours playing "Dots" or "Bejeweled"..

Casual gamers, they're the people who spend hours playing Texas Hold Em online but think someone who spends a night with an RPG or playing Counterstrike is beneath them

Does Nintendo really target them? No. The true casual gamer doesn't have a love affair with Nintendo characters, he won't buy every title with the word "Mario" in it, he won't drool over every "new" installment of Zelda, he looks at "Metroid" and thinks it's just another shooter.

People see the Revolution user interface as revoluitonary? But what's the difference? Nintendo's had strange controllers since it started out: ROB, Powerglove, Super Scope, Mouse, the Virtual Boy set up, and all the weird [mostly Pokemon] controllers on Nintendo 64.

You want Revolution? Look at how much Eyetoy's improved on the PS2. Have any of you tried Play 2 or Kinetic? I did, I sold my original eyetoy a few weeks after it came out but I was throughly impressed how much it's improved in the past year..

Or look at the way Microsoft changed online game play as far as console goes. I don't like FPS games, god, I don't even like the Xbox, but Xbox Live is pretty "revolutionary", it's the Saturn-Net Sega always dreamed of, it's the X-Link and Sega Channel which failed in the 16 bit games, they got it right, they did it, and on top of that actually made money on it, that's "revolution"

The casual gamer is attracted by things like this, not only do they appear to the involved gamer, but things like X-box Live and Eyetoy make it more attractive to play video games. The casual gamer looks at Eyetoy and thinks "I can be part of the game, I can move around and have some fun with this". The casual gamer looks at Xbox live and says, "I can talk to my friends, meet new people, and explore new worlds through Live"

The casual gamer doesn't say, "Ooh! An even glossier, shiny happy looking Mario gets to jump through 50 new stages!" or "Yay! Link gets another cool power and looks different yet again and gets to save the princess!" In fact, not even all involved gamers get excited about that...

The casual gamer sees a cute puppy rapping, they're interested. The casual gamer sees a game you can get into physically [like DDR or any of the eyetoys] and they're interested. The casual gamer might even see a game with realistic looking graphics, strong themes, and a good story line, and they might want to be able to interact with something they'd typically only see on TV or in a movie.

It may hurt the fanboys, but you know how Nintendo might actually win a "console war"? A changing of the guard. No one can deny Nintendo has more talent than most every developer out there COMBINED. Yet for the casual gamer, or the involved gamer who grew up with Sonic instead of Mario, or those that simply like more serious games, the current ways of Nintendo simply don't work. THEY'RES SEVEN MARIO PARTIES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. There's a Mario game for EVERY SPORT.

New projects, new games. Have Nintendo make a real fighter, a serious racer, a traditional RPG, some in house sports games that don't get cancelled, an action game starring someone other than Link, maybe another FPS with the mass appeal of Goldeneye, and lots of innovative, quirky games that aren't victims to the curse of mascots and pastels. Or even that, do things that haven't been done 7 times. A real Pokemon RPG in full 3d with online play, a Kid Icarus game for all the 80's kids, an update to Killer Instinct, a full version of Advance Wars, a real Final Fantasy on a real console, another Stunt Race game, some Pilotwings or a Waverace that's actually worth buying.

Okay, yeah, so I got bored at school..

I'm eagerly awaiting my Christmas present [a pink DS] and have a small small stack of GBA games ready to play. Nintendo's got it right on the hand held side, not one loss, all W's, even the DS proved a success [and has like 10 games coming out or already out I'm dying to play, that's a lot for a handheld]

excellent post!

[kakomu]

It may hurt the fanboys, but you know how Nintendo might actually win a "console war"? A changing of the guard. No one can deny Nintendo has more talent than most every developer out there COMBINED. Yet for the casual gamer, or the involved gamer who grew up with Sonic instead of Mario, or those that simply like more serious games, the current ways of Nintendo simply don't work. THEY'RES SEVEN MARIO PARTIES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. There's a Mario game for EVERY SPORT.

New projects, new games. Have Nintendo make a real fighter, a serious racer, a traditional RPG, some in house sports games that don't get cancelled, an action game starring someone other than Link, maybe another FPS with the mass appeal of Goldeneye, and lots of innovative, quirky games that aren't victims to the curse of mascots and pastels. Or even that, do things that haven't been done 7 times. A real Pokemon RPG in full 3d with online play, a Kid Icarus game for all the 80's kids, an update to Killer Instinct, a full version of Advance Wars, a real Final Fantasy on a real console, another Stunt Race game, some Pilotwings or a Waverace that's actually worth buying.

This I will agree with, the rest I thought was ranting and rambling.

That being said, any official or semi-official or confirmation of being able to use GC controllers on a revolution?

[CouRageouS]

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/615/615030/e3-2005-high-res-revolution-images-20050517100455584.jpg
I take it you haven't seen this. Back in May most of us were very excited when we saw we could use our wavebirds and bongos still.

[munch]

This I will agree with, the rest I thought was ranting and rambling.

That being said, any official or semi-official or confirmation of being able to use GC controllers on a revolution?

I thought there was. I could have sworn some of the pics from E3 show a flap on the top where you can plug in a GCN controller. There is no telling, however, whether that will make the final build. There are also pictures of a shell floating around somewhere, but i hope they allow the old controllers too.

[SpottedNigel]

That being said, any official or semi-official or confirmation of being able to use GC controllers on a revolution?

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/792/newerbetternintendorevolutionp.jpg

The thing is, they want the REVO controller to be the default. I believe all release day games will have the main controller being REVO

EDIT: damn customers ruing my post times ...

[Zoglog]

lol I love how fanboys go nuts when you state the truth.

[SpottedNigel]

lol I love how fanboys go nuts when you state the truth.

No, they get angry when the other fanboys are wrong. It evens itself off after a while

[Zoglog]

sorry to dissapoint, but i'm not a fanboy of any console. I just find Nintendo's new 3rd place pokemon mentality to be dissapointing. There's no trolling here and the Revolution controller is nothing more than a gyro-enabled remote control. Which in turn will indeed spawn gimmicky games. But fanboys are just so cool and emo to emphasize gameplay amirite?!

I'm not saying the revolution will suck, like the article says itself it's not a direct competitior because they lost the war, it's the best PR spin to differentiate. I can be first place at teabaggin a spongebob plushie. Doesn't mean it's any better than the normal competition.
They forget one thing, casual gamers in America like puzzle games like bejewled and sports games like madden. They don't enjoy brushing thier teeth with a revolution controller.

I own a gamecube. Why? for smash bros. unfortunetly that's the only fruit Gamecube gave me. Will the revolution have a great game? who knows. All I know is there will be a crapload of crappy games based off this new "feature"

So go ahead and flame and troll Nintendo fanboys, after all it's what you guys do best. After all when the dog starts dying it whimpers the loudest.

[guardian_owl]

When the Revolution was first announched and I was reading info on it I believe they said that you can use Gamecube controllers, but only for backwards compatability (IE gamecube games and retro game downloads).

[SpottedNigel]

There's no trolling here and the Revolution controller is nothing more than a gyro-enabled remote control.

See, THAT'S where i have a problem with anything you say. You looking at it with the notion of its CDI-2, instead of looking at the whole picture. Yes, its a remote with Gyro and Pointer abilities. Simple enough on its own...BUT, you still have the analog attachment you then have almost the same set up as any other remote, but with a more precise 3D mouse instead of a second analog stick. So now you have a controller that can do just about the same amount of stuff the others do normally, and then you have MORE. Why people cant see that is the most irratating thing of all.

[jkam]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I still don't understand how anyone can claim this controller is nothing more than a gimmick when not a single one of you has held it, played a game with it, or seen it in action. If you want to complain about it or flame it into the depths of hell at least use it once before doing so. Anything else makes you nothing more than a fanboy of a competing system.

This has been a public service announcement please return to your regularly scheduled programming.

[BustaUppa]

What's the panel on the FRONT of the Revolution supposed to be for? I assumed it was for the Gamecube controller ports but now I see those are on top.

[Vegan]

I don't like that the ports are on the top. Now, when you accidentally pull your controller to its maximum length, instead of your console jerking forward a bit (or, best case scenario: pulling out of the socket), your console is going to plummet to its death.

[Ecofreak]

I don't like that the ports are on the top. Now, when you accidentally pull your controller to its maximum length, instead of your console jerking forward a bit (or, best case scenario: pulling out of the socket), your console is going to plummet to its death.

The design for the console isn't final yet.

[Strell]

And you can lay it on its side also.

I personally will use Wavebirds.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I don't like that the ports are on the top. Now, when you accidentally pull your controller to its maximum length, instead of your console jerking forward a bit (or, best case scenario: pulling out of the socket), your console is going to plummet to its death.

Whether or not it may plummet, this is Nintendo hardware we're talking about here. That stuff is hardy.

[orphicblue]

Imagine this Revolution Launch. Just think about it.

-Console w/1 controller, HDD, ethernet adapter = $149.99 MSRP
-Top 25 games from entire Nintendo backlog downloadable at launch. $15/month for unlimited play. New games added each week or month.
-Launch titles = Smash Bros., Mario, Zelda, Metroid, plus some crazy surprises like Pilotwings or Rad Racer. All w/free online capabilities. $39.99 MSRP.
-Crazy accessories like gun, nunchaku, sword etc. add-ons for the controller.

The success would be STUPID. And is any of this impossible?

Nintendo FTW Y'all

[kakomu]

I don't like that the ports are on the top. Now, when you accidentally pull your controller to its maximum length, instead of your console jerking forward a bit (or, best case scenario: pulling out of the socket), your console is going to plummet to its death.

Well, when one sees that their cord is very tight between the console and the controller, they may consider either:

A) getting an extension cord
B) Getting a wireless controller
C) not using it.

Of course, this is just a logical conclusion. I'm sure many people don't arrive to those very frequently.

[Reality's Fringe]

I second the durability of Nintendo products. I had my gamecube sitting on top of my television in my old dorm room. The tv itself sat in front of a window I usually had open (yes, I know I was just ASKING for it, but space constraints!). Well, one day I was cleaning and I bumped into the t.v. sending the gamecube sliding out the window and two floors down onto concrete. I ran down, brought it back inside and a year and some scuffs later it still works fine.

[Scrubking]

I'm not trying to flame, but with all this talk of "Nintendo getting the classic gamer" and what not, I really wonder if any of you realize the games that the casual gamer cares for.

The true casual gamer, in other words, one who has never been devoted to games, never followed them, one who doesn't read magazines or websites about them...

This is the type of person who might have bought a used Playstation cheap to play Parappa the Rapper and Tekken. Or the type of person who plays Tetris on their computer..or better yet...

I know several girls who say "games are for dorks!" or whatever. Girls who think games are nerdy, stupid, etc. Yet I catch them on Yahoo for hours playing "Dots" or "Bejeweled"..

Casual gamers, they're the people who spend hours playing Texas Hold Em online but think someone who spends a night with an RPG or playing Counterstrike is beneath them

Does Nintendo really target them? No. The true casual gamer doesn't have a love affair with Nintendo characters, he won't buy every title with the word "Mario" in it, he won't drool over every "new" installment of Zelda, he looks at "Metroid" and thinks it's just another shooter.

People see the Revolution user interface as revoluitonary? But what's the difference? Nintendo's had strange controllers since it started out: ROB, Powerglove, Super Scope, Mouse, the Virtual Boy set up, and all the weird [mostly Pokemon] controllers on Nintendo 64.

You want Revolution? Look at how much Eyetoy's improved on the PS2. Have any of you tried Play 2 or Kinetic? I did, I sold my original eyetoy a few weeks after it came out but I was throughly impressed how much it's improved in the past year..

Or look at the way Microsoft changed online game play as far as console goes. I don't like FPS games, god, I don't even like the Xbox, but Xbox Live is pretty "revolutionary", it's the Saturn-Net Sega always dreamed of, it's the X-Link and Sega Channel which failed in the 16 bit games, they got it right, they did it, and on top of that actually made money on it, that's "revolution"

The casual gamer is attracted by things like this, not only do they appear to the involved gamer, but things like X-box Live and Eyetoy make it more attractive to play video games. The casual gamer looks at Eyetoy and thinks "I can be part of the game, I can move around and have some fun with this". The casual gamer looks at Xbox live and says, "I can talk to my friends, meet new people, and explore new worlds through Live"

The casual gamer doesn't say, "Ooh! An even glossier, shiny happy looking Mario gets to jump through 50 new stages!" or "Yay! Link gets another cool power and looks different yet again and gets to save the princess!" In fact, not even all involved gamers get excited about that...

The casual gamer sees a cute puppy rapping, they're interested. The casual gamer sees a game you can get into physically [like DDR or any of the eyetoys] and they're interested. The casual gamer might even see a game with realistic looking graphics, strong themes, and a good story line, and they might want to be able to interact with something they'd typically only see on TV or in a movie.

It may hurt the fanboys, but you know how Nintendo might actually win a "console war"? A changing of the guard. No one can deny Nintendo has more talent than most every developer out there COMBINED. Yet for the casual gamer, or the involved gamer who grew up with Sonic instead of Mario, or those that simply like more serious games, the current ways of Nintendo simply don't work. THEY'RES SEVEN MARIO PARTIES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. There's a Mario game for EVERY SPORT.

New projects, new games. Have Nintendo make a real fighter, a serious racer, a traditional RPG, some in house sports games that don't get cancelled, an action game starring someone other than Link, maybe another FPS with the mass appeal of Goldeneye, and lots of innovative, quirky games that aren't victims to the curse of mascots and pastels. Or even that, do things that haven't been done 7 times. A real Pokemon RPG in full 3d with online play, a Kid Icarus game for all the 80's kids, an update to Killer Instinct, a full version of Advance Wars, a real Final Fantasy on a real console, another Stunt Race game, some Pilotwings or a Waverace that's actually worth buying.

Okay, yeah, so I got bored at school..

I'm eagerly awaiting my Christmas present [a pink DS] and have a small small stack of GBA games ready to play. Nintendo's got it right on the hand held side, not one loss, all W's, even the DS proved a success [and has like 10 games coming out or already out I'm dying to play, that's a lot for a handheld]

Finally a non-fanboy post. :applause:

The Revolution will be a nice budget console with interesting gameplay possibilities (if their magic wand turns out to be practical). Nothing more - probably a lot less.

I also want to thank whoever made that "Gaming powerhouse" comment. It was so funny that you made my day.

[Zoglog]

lol DDR. Statistically Fanboys are not too important for total sales

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000247071608/#comments

And that post is pretty good except for the fact it doesn't fly. Nintendo has already found thier niche market and are perfectly happy exploiting them. It's not a small # but it's not going to get them the sales they need to outsell the ps3 or the 360 in the US. Oh yeah and Casual gamers play yahoo games, not Xbox Live arcade =p.

[Strell]

I'm not sure I understand. You say the Eyetoy appeals to the casual gamer for the reason that it appears more involving, but the Rev controller somehow is not included in that generalization?

Ok.

[sarausagi]

I'm not sure I understand. You say the Eyetoy appeals to the casual gamer for the reason that it appears more involving, but the Rev controller somehow is not included in that generalization?

Ok.

Because for the casual gamer it's just too much. Imagine trying to sell a TV with a controller like that, or a microwave with a separate keypad and a thumbdrive. Like wise, a two handed controller that looks like a vibrator mixed with a remote control with a gamepad on top of it won't fly..

Why does the Gameboy appeal to even non gamers?

Simplicity: two buttons, a d-pad, and a fairly nice sized screen in an attractive looking enclosure.

Even the Gamecube controller is a disorganized mess, the PS2 pad has 12 total buttons and three direction controls but it's in a neat order which makes sense to most people.

TV games, if anything, are such huge sellers, because the interface is very simple, looking like an old NES pad, a two button joystick, or the classic Genesis controller design.

[Strell]

..

You're not making a lot of sense I'm afraid. You're simultaneously calling the Rev more complex, then calling other controllers less confusing. You're also saying that it turns gamers off whereas the Eyetoy and tv games somehow bridge the gap.

The PS2 controller is hardly less confusing - it has an additional set of shoulder buttons and the analog sticks double as R3/L3. So that's another 4 buttons. Hardly less confusing. Especially when you get a game that utilizes all of those buttons for various functions.

Likewise, the Rev controller itself looks very simple and it is built on natural movement. Just like a mouse trumps using tab to navigate around a webpage, the real time aerial movement is far simpler to learn than, say, two handed joysticks going in completely different directions. It's nothing like, say, playing a piano, but it's along the same lines.

As for the two handed controller remark, I'm sorry. Do Sony and Microsoft's machines use two handed controllers? I beleive at last look (which would have been this morning when I left for work) they both did.

Hand someone a controller and have them play an FPS with dual sticks.

Hand that same person a keyboard/mouse immediately afterward and see if they can handle the movement/viewing better.

And then hand them this, something far simpler and allows for more movement, and see what they do.

The problem is that we can't complete the final part of that analogy. Thankfully in a few months we will. I'm betting on the fact that it will be simpler than the previous two solutions AND allow for more movement.

This isn't a reinvention of the controller like a new keypad for a microwave. It's a further extension. A reinvention would be using our minds. But we're still using our hands, and we're just adding another layer on top of it that more closely mimics real life movement.

Instead of writing it off as "it won't fly," I think we shold wait. Given that there's been near 100% positive feedback from anyone who has handled it, I'm going to have to go with their assumptions.

[Reality's Fringe]

..

You're not making a lot of sense I'm afraid. The PS2 controller is hardly less confusing - it has an additional set of shoulder buttons and the analog sticks double as R3/L3. So that's another 4 buttons. Hardly less confusing. Especially when you get a game that utilizes all of those buttons for various functions.

Likewise, the Rev controller itself looks very simple and it is built on natural movement. Just like a mouse trumps using tab to navigate around a webpage, the real time aerial movement is far simpler to learn than, say, two handed joysticks going in completely different directions. It's nothing like, say, playing a piano, but it's along the same lines.

As for the two handed controller remark, I'm sorry. Do Sony and Microsoft's machines use two handed controllers? I beleive at last look (which would have been this morning when I left for work) they both did.

Hand someone a controller and have them play an FPS with dual sticks.

Hand that same person a keyboard/mouse immediately afterward and see if they can handle the movement/viewing better.

And then hand them this, something far simpler and allows for more movement, and see what they do.

The problem is that we can't complete the final part of that analogy. Thankfully in a few months we will. I'm betting on the fact that it will be simpler than the previous two solutions AND allow for more movement.

This isn't a reinvention of the controller like a new keypad for a microwave. It's a further extension. A reinvention would be using our minds. But we're still using our hands, and we're just adding another layer on top of it that more closely mimics real life movement.

Instead of writing it off as "it won't fly," I think we shold wait. Given that there's been near 100% positive feedback from anyone who has handled it, I'm going to have to go with their assumptions.

No, we can't do that, because then that would mean stopping with the"Nintendo must fail" fetish that some people seem to have. It's odd how people are throwing around the term "fanboy" in this thread when I haven't seen one real "fanboy" post. I hate using the term anyway as it seems to have degenerated into a perjorative term for anyone who has anything positive to say about a specific console( as opposed to being used in the pejorative for a crazy asshole who hates everything by any other company). I've never met one person who has found a videogame controller complicated (we're leaving out the people who don't know how to use computers/dvd players), and if I did I'd seriously question their ability to function in the real world. How can "Press the A button" be complicated?
"OMG, is this 'X'? What?! A TRIANGLE!? How will I find THAT?!"
Another problem I have is the whole "Har har, Nintendo is setting themsleves up to be third again" mentality. So what? Does being third mean they don't make a profit? I fail to follow the logic. We're all a little skeptical of the Revolution, but this zealous condemnation of something only devs(which, like Strel saidl, has an almost 100% high approval rating) have seen in action is nutty. It all falls back on this "NINTENDO MUST FAIL" mentality that doesn't make sense. I don't want MS or Sony to fail, and once I get the cash I will have all three sitting beside each other in perfect harmony just like right now...well, after I repair my Box. Poor guy is lonely.