I need advice - Dishonest seller - Refuses Refund for games I mailed back

[electrictroy]

8232191955 & 8232232790 & 823256558
Apocalypse & Tomb Raider & Galerians Ash
advertised as "mint" "excellent" and "very good"



ACTUAL CONDITION: All the cases were damaged. No not shipping damage,,, but scratches. Like someone took sandpaper to them. Obviously those scratches were present when the Seller still had them.

Manuals = Good.

Discs. Galerian looked mint. Tomb Raider had one long scratch. Apocalypse had two small scratches. Definitely not mint. (I want to sell these games someday, and I can't do that when they are scratched.) Also they were covered with lots of dust & spots... lik they had been sitting outside during a rainstorm.




SO I CONTACTED THE BUYER, and he insisted he doesn't ship anything but mint. After a couple back-n-forths, he agreed to take back Tomb Raider & Apocalypse for a full refund + $2.50 to ship it back to him.

I was satisfied until today when the buyer wrote back, essentially, that he thinks I lied. He received the games & insists that the discs are not scratched (except they are - I know, because I've seen them). And he will return the discs to me, but no refund.



I don't know what to do next. At this point I don't see any other option except filing a Paypal complaint. And possibly a Discover card chargeback. Got advice?




EDIT - How does one take pictures of a scratch on a disc? It's visible to the human eye, but not to the camera lens.
EDIT - "I will give you a full refund .... but not an exchange" - Seller. He lied. He's *exchanging* the broken cases for new cases, but mailing them back! He promised a full refund, but did not give it. He's just giving me an exchange. With still-scratched discs. GRRRR.

troy

[electrictroy]

What do you expect? Perfect condition games? You shouldn't be buying on Ebay!!!
Well, I've bought several games on Ebay, and they were as advertised (sealed or like-new). Honest auctions. This is my first experience where the Sellers outright lied (selling trash).

troy

[SkyGheNe]

I fail to see how this has any relevance to what is being discussed. People buy games on ebay, what a shock! The fact that the seller lied about condition is something that could happen at any time.

As slow as paypal is, i'd go through with the complaint.

[bradr]

No offense to the OP, my comments are more about the seller but could be offensive to the OP, although I do not intend it to be:

The shipping is ridiculous! $6.00 for first class mail and $3.00 per additional item? Shipping for three games comes out to $12.00 for First Class mail! I hate sellers like that and the games (I was only able to see two of the auctions) seem a little high.

Definitely shop around before buying. It only takes a little typing, at least you don't have to waste gas and drive around.

I guess going through PayPal is your only recourse. I don't know how they would handle a case where the seller disputes the buyer's dispute. I guess take a screen shot of those auctions and then take pictures of the items when they're returned to you. Good luck.

[pimpinc333]

You have alot of problems on ebay bro. It seems like everyday there is a new topic with you complaining about an Ebay Seller. I mean your complaints are justified so you must have really bad luck.

[wubb]

I think you are on the right track with going to PayPal. Be sure to include his e-mail where he agreed to give you the refund and then just explain that after receiving the stuff back he has renegged on that agreement.

Most credit cards give you 90 days to do a chargeback (but call to make sure) so I'd give PayPal a chance to straighten it out first unless you are desperate for the money.

However, you probably should always ask the seller to confirm that the discs have no scratches at all before buying (even if they are listed as mint) if you are this picky. Some sellers pretty much slap MINT on their title for everything.

[mbstuff]

I think you need to lower your expectations of ebay purchases. You're not going to get games with zero scratches all or even most of the time from "mint" ebay games. Two small scratches should be acceptable, even if advertised as mint. I'm not saying you're wrong to demand zero scratches, but you set yourself up for a lot of trouble dealing on ebay to set your standards that high.

Plus, scratches on tomb raider and apocalypse? Probably better off if the discs had been unplayable than to spend your time playing them. ;)

[electrictroy]

The shipping is ridiculous! $6.00 for first class mail and $3.00 per additional item? Disagree. If you figure in all the fees associated with selling, it costs ~$3.00 to package & drive to the USPO. And another ~$2.00 in fees for every item sold. So I have no objections to $6 for item #1 (to cover ship+fees), and $3 for each additional item (to cover fees).



They would be better as $5 and $2, but I'm not going to quibble over 1 dollar. I am more concerned that I spent ~$13 for each game, and I got trash.

troy

[electrictroy]

P.S. I like the people here a lot better than the folks over at Ebay's Feedback forum. When I posted this exact same message, they said it was MY fault.

Idiots.

[bradr]

Disagree. If you figure in all the fees associated with selling, it costs ~$3.00 to package & drive to the USPO. And another ~$2.00 in fees for every item sold. So I have no objections to $6 for item #1 (to cover ship+fees), and $3 for each additional item (to cover fees).




By the same token, Half charges $2.50 to ship and I think $1.xx for each additional item. If sellers are able to accept those shipping rates, then they're definitely making money off of $6. If you figure $2.50 to ship first class including materials, that's a $3.50 profit. You can rationalize the gas and time into it but I doubt that a Powerseller is going to make a special trip to the post office just for one package so you need to spread that theory amongst many more items (10-50 items per day is probably what he sells).

[electrictroy]

By the same token, Half charges $2.50 to ship and I think $1.xx for each additional item.

Poor example. Half.com is not paying the bill. If Half.com had to pay the bill, they'd charge $5-6.00 like amazon, ebgames, sears, etcetera charge. ----- But since it's the sellers paying the bill, what does Half.com care? They don't care if you spend $4.00 on shipment, and only got $1.75 from half.com. Which is one of the reasons I no longer seller there.




Also adding gasoline + ebay/paypal fees is not rationalizing. It's called accounting or book-keeping. These are legitimate expenses, and I have a right to set a high enough ship so that, even if my game is only 1 penny, I don't lose money.

According to YOU, i should do this:

$0.01 Primal or Blowout or other game that won't sell
-0.25 listing
-0.40 2-weekend extension
-0.05 ebay commission
- 0.45 paypal commission
-
- 1.50 ship
- 1.00 bubble envelope
- 0.50 gasoline
===========
-4.39
+ 2.50 S&H
===========
$1.89 lost in the sale You really, truly think that's what sellers should do??? Lose money?!?!? There's a word for sellers who don't charge enough to cover their own expenses. It starts with "st" and ends with "upid".




And so, that's why I think $6 ship + $3 per extra item is reasonable. If it were me, I'd make each a dollar cheaper, but I'm not going to quibble over one lousy dollar.

troy

[wubb]

By the same token, Half charges $2.50 to ship and I think $1.xx for each additional item.

Ya know what really cheeses me off about Half? They only give the seller $1.89 of that $2.50 they collect (on video game sales.) Ridiculous. What part of the shipping and handling is Half doing :roll: Yes, they handle the money collection but they take their 15% commision to cover that.

However, the nice thing about Half is that since it doesn't cost anything to list you can just set your price taking that into account.

[electrictroy]

we have in no way 'scammed' you as you say it...we are giving you back mint games, w/mint booklets, in brand new cases.....you were only complaining to get a refund, you and i both know these games were mint, that is why you decided to keep galerians. i have looked and looked at the discs and i do not even see 1 single scratch on either of them....you are hte one pulling hte scam...and ebay is aware of it...keep sending these harassing emails and i will continue to send them to ebay....games are on the way back to you....and are again confirmed mint condition....so there is no need to keep doing this...i read your feedback you left people about hte 'refunds' are these the people you threatened negative feedback if they didn't do what you say and give 50% refund---i'll bet those items were as described also and you were just trying to get some money back on them....you are the scammer, you are the bad ebayer...


Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm an honest person. If I say a game is not mint, then that means it's not mint. And the games that were Mint, I paid full price to the sellers - including the Blast Radius you sold me. If I was a scammer, I would have demanded a refund for ALL the games I bought (~25 total), not just 4.

But I didn't because I AM honest. I paid full price for the Mint games. As I agreed to do.




AND I've got almost a dozen other victims, er..... buyers from this guy who said exactly the same thing - "He advertised mint & shipped me damaged." Petboys is the dishonest person & he's finally met his match. I WILL NOT BACK DOWN.


(picks up the phone) I happen to have some lawyer friends in D.C. I need to call.....

troy

[Zipomatic2]

Poor example. Half.com is not paying the bill. If Half.com had to pay the bill, they'd charge $5-6.00 like amazon, ebgames, sears, etcetera charge. ----- But since it's the sellers paying the bill, what does Half.com care? They don't care if you spend $4.00 on shipment, and only got $1.75 from half.com. Which is one of the reasons I no longer seller there.




Also adding gasoline + ebay/paypal fees is not rationalizing. It's called accounting or book-keeping. These are legitimate expenses, and I have a right to set a high enough ship so that, even if my game is only 1 penny, I don't lose money.

According to YOU, i should do this:

$0.01 Primal or Blowout or other game that won't sell
-0.25 listing
-0.40 2-weekend extension
-0.05 ebay commission
- 0.45 paypal commission
-
- 1.50 ship
- 1.00 bubble envelope
- 0.50 gasoline
===========
-4.39
+ 2.50 S&H
===========
$1.89 lost in the sale You really, truly think that's what sellers should do??? Lose money?!?!? There's a word for sellers who don't charge enough to cover their own expenses. It starts with "st" and ends with "upid".




And so, that's why I think $6 ship + $3 per extra item is reasonable. If it were me, I'd make each a dollar cheaper, but I'm not going to quibble over one lousy dollar.

troy

$6 is reasonable if you are sending items via priority mail. It honks me off when people charge outrageous shipping and then send the item via Media-Mail.

I sell DVDs on eBay and I charge $1.99 for shipping and that is via first class mail, and I still cover my fees.

Listing fee 35c (I usually have a opening bid of $3 and a 7 day auction) No Gallery and no subtitle.
eBay commission varies on how much an item sells for, but say it sells for $3 they would take (I think 5%) which is 15c
Bubble envelope 16c (yes, 16c. I buy envelopes in packs of 250 which works out at 16c per envelope, perfect size for a DVD or video game)
Shipping cost $1.29
Total that together and you get $1.95 giving me a grand total of 4c profit. Insane you say? well, I'm one of those rare people who don't like to gouge people on shipping costs and yes I do occasionally make a loss with such cheap shipping, but the advantage of that is people think 'Hey, cheap shipping, maybe I will bid a buck or two more on this item' so it works out for me in the end. (mind you with the post office prices going up in a few weeks I am gonna have to charge $2.50 soon)

As for pay-pal fees, that comes from my starting bid of $3 (which covers fees. If an item sells, fees are covered, if it doesn't sell then I don't have any pay-pal fees to pay - I am out my 35c listing fee though)

I sold a bunch of PS2 games in the past week and charged shipping of $2.50 (the instruction manual weighs the package down so it costs me $1.52 to send instead of $1.29 for DVDs) so I actually make more profit selling video games.

I'm also lucky that I am within walking distance of a post office, so I don't have to pay for gas. Oh yeah, I also knock $1 off every other item bought from me, so I end up charging 99c for shipping for second, third, ect items and I can still cover my eBay fees (it's close admitedly, but I can cover it)

As for the starter of this topic, complain to Pay-Pal. They are ALWAYS on the side of the buyer. A couple of times packages have gotten lost in the mail (or supposedly then never bought the items) and people have complained to Pay-Pal so they take the cash from my account, even though I have a reciept for sending the item and even on occasion delivery conformation. Pay-Pal sucks... really.

[greendj27]

(picks up the phone) I happen to have some lawyer friends in D.C. I need to call.....

troy

Please stop being such a drama queen. People here and on the ebay forums have tried to give you advice and you refuse to accept any of it. There is no need to keep posting emails from your many eBay disagreements here.

[electrictroy]

.

They advised me to file an "Item Not As described" dispute on Paypal. And I did. Don't know where you get the "refuse to accept advice" nonsense??? I followed exactly what they told me to do.

troy

[judyjudyjudy]

GET A BLOG. Obviously, the whole point of this thread was the complain. You said you wanted advice, but you answered your own question in your first post. And you obviously don't listen to any advice because you still have the same shipping costs (yes, I know what your excuses are for this please don't repost your detailed arithmetic) and you still list unsealed items as new. (You don't even listen to your own advice (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77263)... you said you were going to change your shipping costs to $3.88, and that has yet to happen.) I can't believe you are still allowed to post in this forum.

/rant... apologies ahead of time to the mods :P

[greendj27]

.

They advised me to file an "Item Not As described" dispute on Paypal. And I did. Don't know where you get the "refuse to accept advice" nonsense??? I followed exactly what they told me to do.

troy

Did they also say that you should post every email the buyer sends you? Especially when we have no clue what the email said that you sent to him. The point is, you continually have problems on eBay and instead of just taking advice on how to deal with these situations, you start another topic about it to whine.

[Odenat]

I recommend....http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/7154/summerseve7ht.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[electrictroy]

Okay fine. I'll shut up. I just thought people would want to know about a Bad Seller. That's all.




EDIT - And I want YOU to put me on your ignore list. If my posts are so worthless JUDY & GREENDJ, why keep reading them??? Why keep responding? Just ignore me, and that's the end of it. (Duh.) ------> I suspect the reason you keep reading my posts, even though you think they suck, is because you LIKE fighting/debating. Which makes you a forum troll.

So stop trolling! Stop reading My posts if you think they suck so badly.

.

[Z-Saber]

These forums are starting to suck more and more.

And this isn't at all directed to troy. He asked for advice, got advice, and is following the advice. Yet some of you want to pull the "omg livejournal" card? Get off my internet.

[electrictroy]

These forums are starting to suck more and more. Troy asked for advice, got advice, and is following the advice. Yet some of you want to pull the "omg livejournal" card? Get off my internet.OUCH.I think you need to lower your expectations of ebay purchases. You're not going to get games with zero scratches all or even most of the time from "mint" ebay games. Two small scratches should be acceptable, even if advertised as mint. I'm not saying you're wrong to demand zero scratches, but you set yourself up for a lot of trouble dealing on ebay to set your standards that high.



True. But then, sellers shouldn't be false-advertising either. Not only is it immoral, but if you check the legal code, not allowed. If the listing says, "Mint" then that's what they should sell. "Mint" means mint. No flaws. If the seller lies, then he should be drug to paypal & forced to explain why he false advertised.

When I sell games, I sell them w/o flaws. Naturally I expect my competition to either (a) sell w/o flaws or (b) Be honest & admit there are scratches on their discs.

Anyway, I'll let paypal deal with it.

troy

[pimpinc333]

Okay fine. I'll shut up. I just thought people would want to know about a Bad Seller. That's all.




EDIT - And I want YOU to put me on your ignore list. If my posts are so worthless JUDY & GREENDJ, why keep reading them??? Why keep responding? Just ignore me, and that's the end of it. (Duh.) ------> I suspect the reason you keep reading my posts, even though you think they suck, is because you LIKE fighting/debating. Which makes you a forum troll.

So stop trolling! Stop reading My posts if you think they suck so badly.

.

Sorry, but I can vouch for Green that he is possibly one of the best CAG's on the site.

Seriouly though I remember there was like a week straight where you just made threads to bash FF7. Now you constantly are making threads to talk about your shitty Ebay tranaction's. I could care less since it doesn't bother me so much I just want to make people aware that all your posts are pointless none sense where you just bitch about something. I Thank You.

[electrictroy]

SNow you constantly are making threads to talk about your shitty Ebay tranaction's. 1 post per week =/= "constant". Just click the ignore button & stop reading my posts if it bothers you so much.

troy

[pimpinc333]

could care less since it doesn't bother me so much I just want to make people aware that all your posts are pointless none sense where you just bitch about something.

You missed that part. But seriously I hope you get your refund. Good Luck Bro.

[electrictroy]

I just want to make people aware that all your posts are pointless none sense where you just bitch about something. FALSE. I've posted lots of useful threads:

BUYER POLL - What % is too low for you to bid?
MY Auction - Tons of New Games & DVDs for sale
Sales after December 25 - Poor results?
CODES for gamequestdirect.com
CODES for amazon.com
SALE at sears
Games are *cheaper* today than in 1989/NES days
Will REVOLUTION require a GameCube memcard to work properly?
Gamecube Digital Output - is that for component video?
wanted - GBA games Yoshi Island or Mario World - NEW
Rank the FF series - best to worst
How many HOURS (yes hours) are you putting on the X360?
Who owns just ONE current-gen console?
Shadow Man N64/DC vs. PS1 - totally different reviews
Starsky & Hutch - I like it
BLOCKBUSTER COUPONS - for sale
5% off all Online Purchases - Discover Card
Medal of Honor - Are the sequels as fun as the original? <----there's 2 positive/upbeat posts


So your comment "all your posts are pointless" is without merit. It's an opinion, but it's not backed up by the facts, so it's false.

[judyjudyjudy]

Okay fine. I'll shut up. I just thought people would want to know about a Bad Seller. That's all.




EDIT - And I want YOU to put me on your ignore list. If my posts are so worthless JUDY & GREENDJ, why keep reading them??? Why keep responding? Just ignore me, and that's the end of it. (Duh.) ------> I suspect the reason you keep reading my posts, even though you think they suck, is because you LIKE fighting/debating. Which makes you a forum troll.

So stop trolling! Stop reading My posts if you think they suck so badly.

.You're absolutely right... I do need to ignore your posts. I'm just sick of your constant threads in the auction forums, since the ignore function cannot ignore threads. Hopefully, CheapyD can fix that someday. And considering your onslaught of posts on eBay and the flamefests that resulted that had to be purged by the mods there, you shouldn't talk to me about trolling.
Edited to add: My bad, it seems you deleted them on your own accord (good job).
These forums are starting to suck more and more.

And this isn't at all directed to troy. He asked for advice, got advice, and is following the advice. Yet some of you want to pull the "omg livejournal" card? Get off my internet.What advice was he looking for? He says he was looking advice, but he already knew he should file a complaint with Paypal and contact his credit card. What else was there to do? Was he looking for witty retorts for his response email?

[pimpinc333]

I might as well post this PM Troy just sent me. My comment of him posting stupid non-sense I guess isn't true since he showed me all the useful threads he started. Here they are.

FALSE. I've posted lots of useful threads:

BUYER POLL - What % is too low for you to bid?
MY Auction - Tons of New Games & DVDs for sale
Sales after December 25 - Poor results?
CODES for gamequestdirect.com
CODES for amazon.com
SALE at sears
Games are *cheaper* today than in 1989/NES days
Will REVOLUTION require a GameCube memcard to work properly?
Gamecube Digital Output - is that for component video?
wanted - GBA games Yoshi Island or Mario World - NEW
Rank the FF series - best to worst
How many HOURS (yes hours) are you putting on the X360?
Who owns just ONE current-gen console?
Shadow Man N64/DC vs. PS1 - totally different reviews
Starsky & Hutch - I like it
BLOCKBUSTER COUPONS - for sale
5% off all Online Purchases - Discover Card
Medal of Honor - Are the sequels as fun as the original? <----there's 2 positive/upbeat posts


That's out of 130 Threads he has started. So yes you are a great member of the CAG community. :::::rollingeyesbitch:::::

[doodle777_98]

personally i dont like electrictoy's post either. but CAG's a free country. So let him post his "problems" and the such.

[shrike4242]

I think this is the last flamefest from electrictroy for a while.

We're done here.