U.S. Military in Iraq

[Wlogan31]

In addition to Grave_Addiction's post the other day...

I got this e-mail today and found it very enlightening...thought I'd share it with you guys (and gals). Sorry for the length.

Subject: FW: There IS Another Side of the Story Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:37:09 -0400



This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, SFC Iowa Army National Guard 234th Signal Battalion serving in Iraq:

"As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened.



I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.



* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations. * School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war. * Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur. * The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.


* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August. * Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq. * The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war. * 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.



* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place. * Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city. * Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets. * Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country. * Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.


* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever. * Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs. * An interim constitution has been signed. * Girls are allowed to attend school. * Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years. Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there.

* I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa.



This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening. Ray Reynolds, SFC Iowa Army National Guard 234th Signal Battalion


I say:
The Liberal Media Has Gone Too Far!

[bignick]

Nice post. So Lick it war haters.

[The Successful Dropout]

nah mean

[E-Z-B]

I have a hard time believing anything the military tells us now.

[Grave_Addiction]

Those are some very interesting facts.

Although there's still a helluva long way to go in rebuilding Iraq, I think we have done a pretty good job so far.

I guess the three main objectives entering the war was to 1) Remove Hussein from power. 2) Destroy any terrorist forces there. 3) And to begin rebuilding Iraq.

We've done good on points 1 and 3, but the terrorists are putting up a bit of a fight. But I'm afraid there's always going to be terrorist activity in the Middle East whenever there's a U.S. or Israel presence.

[Ikohn4ever]

not to be cynical but it sound like hawk propoganda

[E-Z-B]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_gulfwars2.jpg

Read the credits at the bottom.

[Grave_Addiction]

Do you think that is really Saddam's belly?

[The Successful Dropout]

I have a hard time believing anything the military tells us now.


yeah, cuz the media never lies

=D>

[E-Z-B]

Those are some very interesting facts.

Although there's still a helluva long way to go in rebuilding Iraq, I think we have done a pretty good job so far.

I guess the three main objectives entering the war was to 1) Remove Hussein from power. 2) Destroy any terrorist forces there. 3) And to begin rebuilding Iraq.

We've done good on points 1 and 3, but the terrorists are putting up a bit of a fight. But I'm afraid there's always going to be terrorist activity in the Middle East whenever there's a U.S. or Israel presence.

I don't think they're "terrorists" -- they're "insurgents". Big difference there. The insurgents are the regular citizens with no al Qaeda training who just want the U.S. out of their country.

[Grave_Addiction]

Right, but I consider any person who uses car bombs, straps explosives to themselves and blatantly kills innocent people a terrorist.

Also, it was confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was the one who beheaded Nick Berg. He is the second in command in Al Qaeda. So if you think there is no terrorist presence in Iraq, you are very wrong.

[E-Z-B]

Right, but I consider any person who uses car bombs, straps explosives to themselves and blatantly kills innocent people a terrorist.

Also, it was confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was the one who beheaded Nick Berg. He is the second in command in Al Qaeda. So if you think there is no terrorist presence in Iraq, you are very wrong.

Was he there before or after the fall of Saddam?

So you're saying that the palestinians are terrorists? So shouldn't we go after them before they attack us?

[Ikohn4ever]

Right, but I consider any person who uses car bombs, straps explosives to themselves and blatantly kills innocent people a terrorist.

Also, it was confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was the one who beheaded Nick Berg. He is the second in command in Al Qaeda. So if you think there is no terrorist presence in Iraq, you are very wrong.

Was he there before or after the fall of Saddam?

So you're saying that the palestinians are terrorists? So shouldn't we go after them before they attack us?

E-Z-B, that sounds like awfully like terrorist talk, they might go after you next.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

[E-Z-B]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

So what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

[Ikohn4ever]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

[The Successful Dropout]

pardon me if im wrong, but the root word in terrorist is terror

so anyone who brings terror to anyone on purpose, would be called a terrorist i would think

[bignick]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

So you believe everything you hear on the news or read on msn.com?

[TheRaven]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

So what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

You have to understand that the conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for thousands and thousands of years, and no matter how much any political leader tries, they will never get real peace there.

There's a difference in civilians dying because there's a war. It's obviously going to happen. But when someone targets innocent people, not the people they are at war with, that is what I consider terrorism.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Read my last post.

Innocent casualties happen in war. It's a fact. We try to minimize it as much as we can, but it happens.

The difference is we don't try to kill innocent people like they do.

[The Successful Dropout]

i would think that all of this was common sense....but some ppl are shockingly retarded

[E-Z-B]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

So you believe everything you hear on the news or read on msn.com?

I believe the news more than the military. They're covering up who gave the orders to abuse the prisoners to extract information from them. They're waging a propaganda campaign to win the hearts & minds of arabs. So of course they're going to scew the truth.

Would you rather get your gaming reviews from the company who made the games or from independent sources?

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

I'm kinda wary in believing that right now. The military has denied it from the beginning. Right now, if they did something wrong and it has made it to the public, they will admit to the mistake because the leaders are already in enough trouble. They don't want to be caught in another cover up.

I'm waiting for the rest of the facts to come out.

[bignick]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

[Ikohn4ever]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

So you believe everything you hear on the news or read on msn.com?

No but apparently you'll believe an email by an alleged soldier that talks about the wonders of the war "Nice post. So Lick it war haters. "(BIG NICK)

[E-Z-B]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

Sure they have. At the prison where the abuse scandal broke. They shot and killed an unarmed prisoner. And 90% of those prisoners were arrested by mistake.

[Ikohn4ever]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

So what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

You have to understand that the conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for thousands and thousands of years, and no matter how much any political leader tries, they will never get real peace there.

There's a difference in civilians dying because there's a war. It's obviously going to happen. But when someone targets innocent people, not the people they are at war with, that is what I consider terrorism.

u might want to replace thousands with 50-100 yrs tops. Jew-Muslim problem didnt really start until the 20th century. Before that they were pretty chill with each other.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

what about the soldiers that shot up that wedding?

So you believe everything you hear on the news or read on msn.com?

I believe the news more than the military. They're covering up who gave the orders to abuse the prisoners to extract information from them. They're waging a propaganda campaign to win the hearts & minds of arabs. So of course they're going to scew the truth.

Would you rather get your gaming reviews from the company who made the games or from independent sources?

Look, I write this news you speak of for the military. I've been doing it for more than four years now. And I would never ever print any form of misinformation or propaganda.

People naturally have this distrust for the military and think we are out to misinform them with each press release we send out.

In public affairs (that's the military media, btw), we have rules that whenever something bad happens to let the media know as soon as possible. That way when it does surface, it doesn't look like we are covering anything up.

But of course there are times where politicians and other leaders will lie to the public. I can't stand that. I don't think I could let anyone, no matter what rank they are, tell me to misinform the people. That is wrong and I am firmly against it.

[The Successful Dropout]

so a few ppl in the military are assholes and that makes the whole military assholes???

thats like saying a few white ppl are assholes, so you hate all white ppl

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

Sure they have. At the prison where the abuse scandal broke. They shot and killed an unarmed prisoner. And 90% of those prisoners were arrested by mistake.

And those Soldiers who committed those crimes are terrorists, too.

[E-Z-B]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

So what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

You have to understand that the conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for thousands and thousands of years, and no matter how much any political leader tries, they will never get real peace there.

There's a difference in civilians dying because there's a war. It's obviously going to happen. But when someone targets innocent people, not the people they are at war with, that is what I consider terrorism.

You're saying that innocent people in israel haven't been targeted? I don't see your point here.

Again, so what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

[E-Z-B]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

Sure they have. At the prison where the abuse scandal broke. They shot and killed an unarmed prisoner. And 90% of those prisoners were arrested by mistake.

And those Soldiers who committed those crimes are terrorists, too.

I think a better term is "criminals". Along with the Bush administration.

[The Successful Dropout]

how come no1 will argue with me? argue with me damnit!!!!

[MaxBiaggi3]

People naturally have this distrust for the military and think we are out to misinform them with each press release we send out.

It is an election year, after all, and your commander in chief is on the ballot this November. That couldn't have anything to do with what war-related information is made available to the public, could it?

Obviously, the so-called liberal media has a lot more checks and balances than the military. If one news oulet gets a breaking story wrong, there are 50-100 other news outlets all competing for advertising dollars that will be more than happy to immediately point out the first one's mistake.

In an election year, this administration has a lot to lose if too much "wrong" or "bad" information comes out. Since this administration's rush to war was based on WMDs that don't exist, I'm not going to now start believing that their election year disinformation is any less faulty.

[Quackzilla]

A few things you people don't understand.

Most soldiers are good people.

Many soldiers, however, are total bigots. They will torture and kill innocent civilians, including childrens, just like the bigots in Vietnam.

Until that bullshit stops, retaliatory terrorism by the oppressed people will continue.

The terrorists are not fanatics who kill because they like it, it is because that is the only weapon they have left.

Palastinians are at war with the US backed israelis being killed by american guns, helicopters, and tanks, and they have no means of fighting back except for guerilla warfare.

The whole arab world sees this bigotry against muslims by the united states government and many of its soldiers and they KNOW it will happen to them.

If you slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians THEY WILL FIGHT BACK USING ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! They are not gonna sit back and take it.


I HATE IT WHEN NATIONALIST ASSHOLES BELEIVE THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEIR SOLDIERS DO IS RIGHT AND EVERYTHING THE ENEMY DOES IS WRONG!

THATS NOT THE WAY IT WORKS, PEOPLE, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

So what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

You have to understand that the conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for thousands and thousands of years, and no matter how much any political leader tries, they will never get real peace there.

There's a difference in civilians dying because there's a war. It's obviously going to happen. But when someone targets innocent people, not the people they are at war with, that is what I consider terrorism.

You're saying that innocent people in israel haven't been targeted? I don't see your point here.

Again, so what's with the double-talk from Bush's staff saying that Israel goes too far with sending in tanks and troops to capture the terrorists?

No, I'm saying that innocent Israelis are targeted everyday. The terrorists there are out to kill as many Israelis as they can. From what I read, I don't remember a time when an Israeli ran into a crowded Palestinian restaraunt and blew it up, killing all the people.

What Israel does do, however, is go overboard with killing political and terrorist leaders and this sometimes results in civilian casualties. This is wrong, but I don't consider it a terrorist act because they are targeting their enemy, not a family out to lunch.

I'm not here to back up Bush. I don't really care if he is elected again. I don't vote Democrat or Republican, I choose to vote for the lesser evil.

[Quackzilla]

Isreali troops deliberately attack Palastinian civilians and destroy their communiteis and homes in an (illegal) form of combat known as "total war".
What do you think the fucking bulldozers are for?

Civilians on both sides desperately want the war to end, but the Israeli leaders don't care. The Israelis are an invading force, Palestine was there first.

The US government backed the Isrealis because their enemies were Muslims.

And the only weapon the Palestinians have is small arms and bombs that must be manually detonated. They are trying to get the world to realise what is going on and what better way than to blow yourself up in a populated area? The media can't ignore that.

[Grave_Addiction]

A few things you people don't understand.

Most soldiers are good people.

Many soldiers, however, are total bigots. They will torture and kill innocent civilians, including childrens, just like the bigots in Vietnam.

Until that bullshit stops, retaliatory terrorism by the oppressed people will continue.

The terrorists are not fanatics who kill because they like it, it is because that is the only weapon they have left.

Palastinians are at war with the US backed israelis being killed by american guns, helicopters, and tanks, and they have no means of fighting back except for guerilla warfare.

The whole arab world sees this bigotry against muslims by the united states government and many of its soldiers and they KNOW it will happen to them.

If you slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians THEY WILL FIGHT BACK USING ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! They are not gonna sit back and take it.


I HATE IT WHEN NATIONALIST ASSHOLES BELEIVE THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEIR SOLDIERS DO IS RIGHT AND EVERYTHING THE ENEMY DOES IS WRONG!

THATS NOT THE WAY IT WORKS, PEOPLE, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!

That's probably directed at me a bit, but I, in no way, think our country is right all the time. In fact, we have done hundreds of terrible things.

Please tell me, other than what you see and read in the news gives you the the knowledge to be able to say many soldiers are bigots? How do you know? Have you spent time with Airmen, Soldiers, Marines, Seamen or Coasties? If so, then yes you do have the knowledge, but don't be saying that because what you see on CNN.

So, you're saying that because we support Israel, that we left no other choice to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to hijack three of our planes, fly two into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people, some who were Muslims themselves?

Please. I can understand when a group of people are under attack and because they don't have the resources or knowledge to fight a traditional war, they turn to guerilla tactics. But when they begin to target innocent people by doing that, that is wrong. And you will never convince me otherwise.

Attacking our servicemembers is fair game. They can do it all they want because we are in a war, but when you start attacking our civilians, that's when it's something different.

[TheRaven]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

Sure they have. At the prison where the abuse scandal broke. They shot and killed an unarmed prisoner. And 90% of those prisoners were arrested by mistake.

And those Soldiers who committed those crimes are terrorists, too.

Regardless, they are American soldiers still. You cannot deny one second that any American soldiers have purposedly killed innocent people, then later just sweep it under the terrorist rug and expect that to justify the fact that Americans dont kill innocent people.

[TheRaven]

A few things you people don't understand.

Most soldiers are good people.

Many soldiers, however, are total bigots. They will torture and kill innocent civilians, including childrens, just like the bigots in Vietnam.

Until that bullshit stops, retaliatory terrorism by the oppressed people will continue.

The terrorists are not fanatics who kill because they like it, it is because that is the only weapon they have left.

Palastinians are at war with the US backed israelis being killed by american guns, helicopters, and tanks, and they have no means of fighting back except for guerilla warfare.

The whole arab world sees this bigotry against muslims by the united states government and many of its soldiers and they KNOW it will happen to them.

If you slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians THEY WILL FIGHT BACK USING ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! They are not gonna sit back and take it.


I HATE IT WHEN NATIONALIST ASSHOLES BELEIVE THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEIR SOLDIERS DO IS RIGHT AND EVERYTHING THE ENEMY DOES IS WRONG!

THATS NOT THE WAY IT WORKS, PEOPLE, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!

I agree completely

[PsyClerk]

It's refreshing to see someone else take a shot at having rational discussion with our resident wacky left-wingers.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yes, I do believe Palestinians are terrorists. Any person, no matter what race, creed or culture they are from who kills innocent people on purpose is a terrorist.

If American troops ran around Iraq killing any man, woman or child they saw, I would consider them terrorists, as well.

Americans have killed innocent people over there.

Not on purpose. Not trying to prove a point either.

Sure they have. At the prison where the abuse scandal broke. They shot and killed an unarmed prisoner. And 90% of those prisoners were arrested by mistake.

And those Soldiers who committed those crimes are terrorists, too.

Regardless, they are American soldiers still. You cannot deny one second that any American soldiers have purposedly killed innocent people, then later just sweep it under the terrorist rug and expect that to justify the fact that Americans dont kill innocent people.

I never said a Americans don't kill innocent people, they do. But our military agenda is not to kill innocent people like terrorists do. A few rogue soldiers killing some prisoners is different than an elaborate plan to kill thousands of people in the World Trade Towers.

[Quackzilla]

They attack our civilians because we attack theirs.

Many Amaricans are bigots, and quite a few join the army so they can kill people they hate.

Many was not referring to a percentage, but to a number. Perhaps a few hundred, maybe less. But that is still way too many.

The truth is here, and nothing you say or do can hide it or change the fact that it is the truth.

I have much respect for our soldiers who fight for freedom and try to liberate an oppressed people. There are many positive things that they are doing that will never be covered by the media. They are building schools, training civilians to fight against the terrorists, and generally improving the quality of life for those who they liberated.

But those who hate the "enemy" I do not consider soldiers but terrorists. The people who feel good when they kill, and have no respect at all for other cultures. These people are the source of terrorism.

Al Qaeda is a terrorist group that is against the Americans and all who support them. Why would it be so hard to ask them why they were attacking and negotiate a peace treaty? They want to negotiate, we just wont let them.

[MaxBiaggi3]

Most soldiers are good people.

While we're making sweeping generalizations here, I'd like to point out that most people also agree that just about all politicians are complete and utter lying scumbags. An example of such a scumbag would be the U.S. military's current commander in chief George W. Bush, who led us to war on the premise of the imminent threat of WMDs (which as it turns out don't actually exist). My point is that it doesn't matter how many good soldiers we have in the military when their commander in chief is a lying scumbag looking to win an election in November.

[E-Z-B]

It's refreshing to see someone else take a shot at having rational discussion with our resident wacky left-wingers.

Taking a shot at our resident war-monger right-wingers?

[Ikohn4ever]

A few things you people don't understand.

Most soldiers are good people.

Many soldiers, however, are total bigots. They will torture and kill innocent civilians, including childrens, just like the bigots in Vietnam.

Until that bullshit stops, retaliatory terrorism by the oppressed people will continue.

The terrorists are not fanatics who kill because they like it, it is because that is the only weapon they have left.

Palastinians are at war with the US backed israelis being killed by american guns, helicopters, and tanks, and they have no means of fighting back except for guerilla warfare.

The whole arab world sees this bigotry against muslims by the united states government and many of its soldiers and they KNOW it will happen to them.

If you slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians THEY WILL FIGHT BACK USING ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! They are not gonna sit back and take it.


I HATE IT WHEN NATIONALIST ASSHOLES BELEIVE THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEIR SOLDIERS DO IS RIGHT AND EVERYTHING THE ENEMY DOES IS WRONG!

THATS NOT THE WAY IT WORKS, PEOPLE, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.

[Quackzilla]

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.



Here is an appropriate analogy. Canada invades America and takes almost all of the land, regularly kills hundreds of civilians, and has a huge military controlling all of the Americans.

After every attack against American civilians Americans fight back, killing both soldiers in deadly suicide bombings and shootings.

According to you it would be wrong for the Americans to want the invaders to get the hell out entirely?

The goal of the PLO is to get Isreal out and regain control of the country.

[Quackzilla]

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.



Here is an appropriate analogy. Canada invades America and takes almost all of the land, regularly kills hundreds of civilians, and has a huge military controlling all of the Americans.

After every attack against American civilians Americans fight back, killing both soldiers in deadly suicide bombings and shootings.

According to you it would be wrong for the Americans to want the invaders to get the hell out entirely?

The goal of the PLO is to get Isreal out and regain control of the country.

[Grave_Addiction]

Most soldiers are good people.

While we're making sweeping generalizations here, I'd like to point out that most people also agree that just about all politicians are complete and utter lying scumbags. An example of such a scumbag would be the U.S. military's current commander in chief George W. Bush, who led us to war on the premise of the imminent threat of WMDs (which as it turns out don't actually exist). My point is that it doesn't matter how many good soldiers we have in the military when their commander in chief is a lying scumbag looking to win an election in November.

That is very true. Servicemembers have to follow the orders they are given unless it breaks the law. At that point, it's their responsibility to not follow through with the orders.

This war is doing good things for the Iraqi people, despite what the media is reporting. Although the original purpose of the war, is probably not the right thing. But the fact is we are there now, so we have to finish the job.

It's the job of Americans to decide who they want for president. Yes, I know the electoral college messed that up last election, but I'm hoping that won't happen again.

In a way, I don't want Bush in office because I'm afraid of what he's going to do next, but I'm also afraid what Kerry might do if he is elected. I don't want a president to come in and just pull the troops out. I know that may sound good, and I want our troops home, too. But we now have to finish what we've started, and pulling out the troops will only cause more trouble for the region and the rest of the world, in the end.

[Quackzilla]

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.



Here is an appropriate analogy. Canada invades America and takes almost all of the land, regularly kills hundreds of civilians, and has a huge military controlling all of the Americans.

After every attack against American civilians Americans fight back, killing both soldiers in deadly suicide bombings and shootings.

According to you it would be wrong for the Americans to want the invaders to get the hell out entirely?

The goal of the PLO is to get Isreal out and regain control of the country.

[alongx]

A few points:

You have to understand that the conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for thousands and thousands of years, and no matter how much any political leader tries, they will never get real peace there.

The conflict between Israel and Palestine has only been going on for around 65 years. Israel wasn't a country before then - Israel and Jordan were considered to be Palestine. And, prior to that, there were never major fights between Jews and Palestinians. The two groups coexisted peacefully for centuries.

The definition of terrorist seems to only suit us when it's to our advantage.

You couldn't be more right there. If you'll take the time to look it up, you'll notice that the FBI, the CIA, and the Department of Defense all have different definitions as to what constitutes a terrorist act.

So, you're saying that because we support Israel, that we left no other choice to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to hijack three of our planes, fly two into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people, some who were Muslims themselves?

This is a common misconception. Osama Bin Laden does not hate America because we support Israel. He could give a shit about Israel. What he cares about is his home country of Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden has publically stated that he felt the royal family of Saudi Arabia was hopelessly corrupt and he originally campaigned to have them removed, which lead to his being exiled from S.A. Bin Laden hates the USA because we landed troops in Saudi Arabia, which holds many of Islam's most holy sites, and because we continue to provide the financial support to S.A.'s royal family that allows them to stay in power.

Which leads me to another common misconception about the war in Iraq: we could not have been there to fight terrorism against the US. Saddam Hussein did commit terrorist acts against insurgents, but never any part in terrorism against the US. Saddam Hussein had no connection to the Al Qaeda network, or any other network for that matter. The Taliban had connections to Al Qaeda, as does the Pakistani Secret Service, which funnelled US aid to the people who would later become the Taliban during the Afghanistan conflict of the 1980's. But not Iraq. Hussein's regime would fall under the same classification to terrorists as their respective home countries' governments - hopelessly corrupt.

Most terrorist organizations operating in the Middle East and southern Asia have been profoundly influenced by a book called Milestones by Sayyid Qutb, which gives an outright dictation of what the Muslim people should accept as their government and what to do to obtain this. Qutb outwardly expresses his distate for any secular government, and goes as far as saying that no man should have the right to declare laws and judge another man, for that is an action reserved by God, and it is every Muslim's right and duty to take arms and defend this ideal at whatever means is necessary.

[PsyClerk]

It's refreshing to see someone else take a shot at having rational discussion with our resident wacky left-wingers.

Taking a shot at our resident war-monger right-wingers?

I wouldn't think of doing such a thing. Then again I've figured out posting the same old shit over and over and over and over is not really fun.

Enjoy, poopy-pants!

/Ace Ventura
//he could find the terrorists with his monkey friend

[Ikohn4ever]

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.



Here is an appropriate analogy. Canada invades America and takes almost all of the land, regularly kills hundreds of civilians, and has a huge military controlling all of the Americans.

After every attack against American civilians Americans fight back, killing both soldiers in deadly suicide bombings and shootings.

According to you it would be wrong for the Americans to want the invaders to get the hell out entirely?

The goal of the PLO is to get Isreal out and regain control of the country.

Actually the lad was gotten after the 6 day war when all of the arab countries around Israel were going to attack and Israel kicked the snot out of them and took the land the pushed the borders out. If you are going to be attacked you have every right to attack and take over any land that you push another country out of

[alongx]

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.

It is true that the PLO's charter states that the Israelis should be driven to the sea as you have stated, but the PLO's actions have not reflected what the charter dictates for years now. Although the PLO started as a terrorist organization which consisted of dozens of other, smaller terrorist cells, it has become much more open to peace talks recently.

And the way Israel should react, and how America should react, should not include a "War on Terror". If you look back to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon to destroy PLO bases, which I believe was in 1982, and look at statistics about terrorist acts commited against Israel in the years before and the years after this war, you will notice that the number of terrorist incidents rose dramatically. Even in the current War on Terror, statistics can show an increase in terrorist activity after our first invasion of Afghanistan, although it is not nearly as dramatic as what can be seen in Israel in the 80's.

[Grave_Addiction]

So, you're saying that because we support Israel, that we left no other choice to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to hijack three of our planes, fly two into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people, some who were Muslims themselves?

This is a common misconception. Osama Bin Laden does not hate America because we support Israel. He could give a shit about Israel. What he cares about is his home country of Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden has publically stated that he felt the royal family of Saudi Arabia was hopelessly corrupt and he originally campaigned to have them removed, which lead to his being exiled from S.A. Bin Laden hates the USA because we landed troops in Saudi Arabia, which holds many of Islam's most holy sites, and because we continue to provide the financial support to S.A.'s royal family that allows them to stay in power.

Which leads me to another common misconception about the war in Iraq: we could not have been there to fight terrorism against the US. Saddam Hussein did commit terrorist acts insurgents, but never any part in terrorism against the US. Saddam Hussein had no connection to the Al Qaeda network, or any other network for that matter. The Taliban had connections to Al Qaeda, as does the Pakistani Secret Service, which funnelled US aid to the people who would later become the Taliban during the Afghanistan conflict of the 1980's. But not Iraq. Hussein's regime would fall under the same classification to terrorists as their respective home countries' governments - hopelessly corrupt.

Most terrorist organizations operating in the Middle East and southern Asia have been profoundly influenced by a book called Milestones by Sayyid Qutb, which gives an outright dictation of what the Muslim people should accept as their government and what to do to obtain this. Qutb outwardly expresses his distate for any secular government, and goes as far as saying that no man should have the right to declare laws and judge another man, for that is an action reserved by God, and it is every Muslim's right and duty to take arms and defend this ideal at whatever means is necessary.

Yeah, you're right about Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia, but still, what gives him a right to kill innocent people?

Bin Laden has also quoted the Quran as saying try to get everyone to convert to Muslim, if they don't then you have the right to kill them.

Most religions try to convert everyone else to their religion, but when you resort to violence to do so, it is wrong.

The original reason was because Hussein had WMDs. Well, we haven't found any, but there was evidence beforehand to say there was. Now, it seems that it may have been a mistake. Hussein was a ruthless dictator who killed his own people. He deserved to die. To liberate the Iraqi people is enough for me to justify a war.

Now, some Iraqis and Al Qaeda members want us to leave because they think we are evil. But we are the ones who liberated them and are rebuilding Iraq. They were sure singing our praises the day Saddam's statue fell.

And, I still believe the majority of people like what we are doing there, but they just don't want us there.

[alongx]

Actually the lad was gotten after the 6 day war when all of the arab countries around Israel were going to attack and Israel kicked the snot out of them and took the land the pushed the borders out. If you are going to be attacked you have every right to attack and take over any land that you push another country out of

You are wrong, or your are just misinterpretting. Israel was formed when the British, American, and other Allied forced decided, in the wake of WW2 and the Holocaust, that they wanted Jews out of Europe and to have their own distinct homeland. Since the region of greater Palestine was controlled by Britain, they split it into Jordan and Israel, and forced many of the Palestinians in the region of Israel to leave.

[Grave_Addiction]

I'm sorry but Israel is constantly threatened. Its like in the US we have all the color warning crap but no results, there is no warning against terrorists attacks in Israel and they happen often. When Jordan controlled the area, they treated the Palestinians like dogs and the isrealis treat them better than that. Also how come no other Arab country will allow them to enter their country. They used the refugees as leveraging to get rid of Israel

The PLO the main ogranization of the Palestinians goal is to get rid of all Jews in Israel, push them into the ocean, its in their constitutions. How is Israel supposed to deal with that.



Here is an appropriate analogy. Canada invades America and takes almost all of the land, regularly kills hundreds of civilians, and has a huge military controlling all of the Americans.

After every attack against American civilians Americans fight back, killing both soldiers in deadly suicide bombings and shootings.

According to you it would be wrong for the Americans to want the invaders to get the hell out entirely?

The goal of the PLO is to get Isreal out and regain control of the country.

So then, you are saying Mexicans and American Indians have every right to do whatever they need to take back the land that was theirs before we took it from them?

By your words, you couldn't be mad at a Mexican if he came up and killed you, your family and all the occupants of a restaraunt with a bomb.

[E-Z-B]

Now, some Iraqis and Al Qaeda members want us to leave because they think we are evil. But we are the ones who liberated them and are rebuilding Iraq. They were sure singing our praises the day Saddam's statue fell.

And, I still believe the majority of people like what we are doing there, but they just don't want us there.

Actually, they weren't singing for America. If you spoke arabic, and watched the video when the statue of saddam fell, you would realize that they were actually singing for al Sadr's father who was killed by Saddam.

[Ikohn4ever]

Actually the lad was gotten after the 6 day war when all of the arab countries around Israel were going to attack and Israel kicked the snot out of them and took the land the pushed the borders out. If you are going to be attacked you have every right to attack and take over any land that you push another country out of

You are wrong, or your are just misinterpretting. Israel was formed when the British, American, and other Allied forced decided, in the wake of WW2 and the Holocaust, that they wanted Jews out of Europe and to have their own distinct homeland. Since the region of greater Palestine was controlled by Britain, they split it into Jordan and Israel, and forced many of the Palestinians in the region of Israel to leave.

I was talkin about the Gaza strip cause that where a lot of the shit is going down right now but you are right on how Israel was formed. ANother reason because both US led democracies and the Soviet led communits states wanted leverage in the middle east and they both thought israel would help

[alongx]

Let's do this piece by piece. In bold are the original quotes from Grave_Addiction.

Yeah, you're right about Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia, but still, what gives him a right to kill innocent people?
Who said that they had a right to kill innocent people? I just stated that Bin Laden has nothing to do with Iraq, which is the country we are fighting, even though it has been falsely stated that he has.

Bin Laden has also quoted the Quran as saying try to get everyone to convert to Muslim, if they don't then you have the right to kill them.
Yes, this is also stuff that he took from Qutb, not a quote from the Quran.

Most religions try to convert everyone else to their religion, but when you resort to violence to do so, it is wrong.
I'll agree with you there, which is why I also feel that the Crusades fought in the 9th and 10th centuries (I think) were equally wrong.

The original reason was because Hussein had WMDs. Well, we haven't found any, but there was evidence beforehand to say there was.
There has not actually been any documented evidence to say that there was. It was always stated that there was "evidence of WMDs" but none was ever presented.

Now, it seems that it may have been a mistake.
You're damn right it was.

Hussein was a ruthless dictator who killed his own people. He deserved to die. To liberate the Iraqi people is enough for me to justify a war.
But that's not why we went there, now was it? If it was, I'm pretty sure our President would have told us outright. Who would argue with liberating a nation who is oppressed?

Now, some Iraqis and Al Qaeda members want us to leave because they think we are evil.
Again with linking Al Qaeda with Iraqis. Al Qaeda is not in Iraq.

And, I still believe the majority of people like what we are doing there, but they just don't want us there.
Just because you believe it doesn't necessarily make it so. I sure hope you are right, and that we're helping the people and that they are happy about it, but I'm not so sure.

[alongx]

I was talkin about the Gaza strip cause that where a lot of the shit is going down right now but you are right on how Israel was formed. ANother reason because both US led democracies and the Soviet led communits states wanted leverage in the middle east and they both thought israel would help

I thought that's what you meant - I applogize for saying you were wrong when you weren't. However, it doesn't make sense with regard to what you were originally responding to - I'm pretty sure that the Canada/USA analogy was meant to parallel the creation or Israel, not the expansion of it.

[Quackzilla]

So then, you are saying Mexicans and American Indians have every right to do whatever they need to take back the land that was theirs before we took it from them?

By your words, you couldn't be mad at a Mexican if he came up and killed you, your family and all the occupants of a restaraunt with a bomb.

It wouldn't come to that. If I was living on land that rightfully belonged to someone else I would move and give them back the land, or buy it from them.

But I do not live on Indian land, and I live nowhere near Texas or any other Mexican territories.

I don't think you people know the requirements for world peace. Compromises must be made so all parties get what they want.

[Ikohn4ever]

So then, you are saying Mexicans and American Indians have every right to do whatever they need to take back the land that was theirs before we took it from them?

By your words, you couldn't be mad at a Mexican if he came up and killed you, your family and all the occupants of a restaraunt with a bomb.

It wouldn't come to that. If I was living on land that rightfully belonged to someone else I would move and give them back the land, or buy it from them.

But I do not live on Indian land, and I live nowhere near Texas or any other Mexican territories.

I don't think you people know the requirements for world peace. Compromises must be made so all parties get what they want.

Most likely the land u lived on was Indian land or maybe it was Dutch Land taken over by the British or Spanish taken over by the British. If you lose a battle no matter if its unfair thats history, I am not giving my house back to a native american who said his ancestors owned the land. I own I payed for and its mine. Thats the way life is, every country fought for their land or the land that they control at one point or another and they should not regret those action

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Al Qaeda is not in Iraq.

And you won't find one pickup truck in the south with a Confederate flag on it, an Eagles fan who likes eating Cheese Whiz covered steak sandwhiches on Broad Street, a Raiders fan who will paint his face silver in black or an NRA member that owns a rifle or handgun.... :roll:

[E-Z-B]

Al Qaeda is not in Iraq.

And you won't find one pickup truck in the south with a Confederate flag on it, an Eagles fan who likes eating Cheese Whiz covered steak sandwhiches on Broad Street, a Raiders fan who will paint his face silver in black or an NRA member that owns a rifle or handgun.... :roll:

WTF? ](*,)

[alongx]

Al Qaeda is not in Iraq.

And you won't find one pickup truck in the south with a Confederate flag on it, an Eagles fan who likes eating Cheese Whiz covered steak sandwhiches on Broad Street, a Raiders fan who will paint his face silver in black or an NRA member that owns a rifle or handgun.... :roll:

When I said Al Qaeda is not in Iraq, I meant it does not operate out of Iraq. Yeah, sure, maybe you'll find some people in Iraq who have worked with Al Qaeda.
As you went on in your little example there, you started to make less and less sense. For example, it is more likely than not that a member of the NRA owns a handgun. It is more likely than not that an Iraqi citizen has no affiliation with any terrorist organization.

[Grave_Addiction]

Yeah, you're right about Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia, but still, what gives him a right to kill innocent people?
Who said that they had a right to kill innocent people? I just stated that Bin Laden has nothing to do with Iraq, which is the country we are fighting, even though it has been falsely stated that he has.

Well, I apologize. I was meaning to make my remarks more on a broader scale on the War on Terror.

Bin Laden has also quoted the Quran as saying try to get everyone to convert to Muslim, if they don't then you have the right to kill them.
Yes, this is also stuff that he took from Qutb, not a quote from the Quran.

Okay, my mistake. But he still said it. My point was that some people here almost seem like they're sympathizing with the terrorists.

Most religions try to convert everyone else to their religion, but when you resort to violence to do so, it is wrong.
I'll agree with you there, which is why I also feel that the Crusades fought in the 9th and 10th centuries (I think) were equally wrong.

I agree with you on that, as well.

The original reason was because Hussein had WMDs. Well, we haven't found any, but there was evidence beforehand to say there was.
There has not actually been any documented evidence to say that there was. It was always stated that there was "evidence of WMDs" but none was ever presented.

There was documented evidence of when Colin Powell addressed NATO. Looking back on it, there may not have been enough evidence to justify war. Some of the inspectors found a dozen artillery shells filled with mustard gas and fewer than 20 empty chemical warheads for battlefield rockets. They also found that Iraq had been buying parts that were to be used for WMDs.

Hussein was a ruthless dictator who killed his own people. He deserved to die. To liberate the Iraqi people is enough for me to justify a war.
But that's not why we went there, now was it? If it was, I'm pretty sure our President would have told us outright. Who would argue with liberating a nation who is oppressed?

[i]Right, which is why I disagree with him for our reason to go to war.

Now, some Iraqis and Al Qaeda members want us to leave because they think we are evil.
Again with linking Al Qaeda with Iraqis. Al Qaeda is not in Iraq.

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

And, I still believe the majority of people like what we are doing there, but they just don't want us there.
Just because you believe it doesn't necessarily make it so. I sure hope you are right, and that we're helping the people and that they are happy about it, but I'm not so sure.[/quote]

I've seen quite a few interviews with Iraqis that were pleased with what has been going on. Plus, there was a recent poll, I believe on CNN, that said the Iraqis like the progress in the country but want Americans out and to stop running the country.

[alongx]

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

Al Qaeda doesn't have a distinct structure with a chain of command. It's kind of a free floating social network of Muslim radicals who met while fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden is considered to be "in charge" because he was the person who organized it. The fact that a member was in Iraq I cannot disagree with, but labelling the person as second in command, which somewhat implies that Al Qaeda operates out of Iraq, which there isn't any evidence of.

[MrBadExample]

Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we invaded. Since then terrorist have flooded in because it's the best place to attack Americans.

[Grave_Addiction]

Okay, I think this thread has pretty much run its course. Good debate, though.

[Quackzilla]

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

Actually, judging by the pics I saw on CNN, it was a fake. The guy was already dead and the terrorist who IDENTIFIED himself was masked, even though everyone knew what the guy looks like. Their skin colour is wrong. One guy looked like he was wearing a ring. They usually shoot people, but now the body cannot be identified...


The CIA needed a case against the guy and couldn't find enough evidence...

But the FBI says he was never in US custody so everything is just peachy. =]

[alongx]

Okay, I think this thread has pretty much run its course. Good debate, though.

I agree. It was good debating with you.

[Grave_Addiction]

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

Actually, judging by the pics I saw on CNN, it was a fake. The guy was already dead and the terrorist who IDENTIFIED himself was masked, even though everyone knew what the guy looks like. Their skin colour is wrong. One guy looked like he was wearing a ring. They usually shoot people, but now the body cannot be identified...


The CIA needed a case against the guy and couldn't find enough evidence...

But the FBI says he was never in US custody so everything is just peachy. =]

So, what about when they made him state his name, his family's name and where he lived? I think you've been watching too much Killer Klowns from Outer Space.

[Grave_Addiction]

Okay, I think this thread has pretty much run its course. Good debate, though.

I agree. It was good debating with you.

Thanks, it's good that this thread never turned into a flame war. I respect all of your opinions and am not going to personally attack you because you may think different than me.

[PsyClerk]

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

Actually, judging by the pics I saw on CNN, it was a fake. The guy was already dead and the terrorist who IDENTIFIED himself was masked, even though everyone knew what the guy looks like. Their skin colour is wrong. One guy looked like he was wearing a ring. They usually shoot people, but now the body cannot be identified...


The CIA needed a case against the guy and couldn't find enough evidence...

But the FBI says he was never in US custody so everything is just peachy. =]

So, what about when they made him state his name, his family's name and where he lived? I think you've been watching too much Killer Klowns from Outer Space.

=D>

You are officially the shaq-fuing man.

[MrBadExample]

Thanks, it's good that this thread never turned into a flame war. I respect all of your opinions and am not going to personally attack you because you may think different than me.

Cool. Very well said.

[Quackzilla]

Dude, what have you been smoking? We have learned that the second in command of Al Qaeda personally beheaded Nick Berg.

Actually, judging by the pics I saw on CNN, it was a fake. The guy was already dead and the terrorist who IDENTIFIED himself was masked, even though everyone knew what the guy looks like. Their skin colour is wrong. One guy looked like he was wearing a ring. They usually shoot people, but now the body cannot be identified...


The CIA needed a case against the guy and couldn't find enough evidence...

But the FBI says he was never in US custody so everything is just peachy. =]

So, what about when they made him state his name, his family's name and where he lived? I think you've been watching too much Killer Klowns from Outer Space.

How much does his mouth move?

You must not dismiss the extreme possibilities.

And that doesn't prove the people were Iraqis, or even Arabs for that matter.