I am really sick of anime influence

[Strell]

Seriously. Can we please find another style to rip off repeatedly?

Every new webcomic in the goddamn world is nothing but feminine men and big breasted me-too women running around with triangle mouths, super powers, and angst. Throw in some half-ass wish-it-was-but-it-sorely-isn't lines and darkness. Oh, and don't forget the strange title, where you pick, say, a color (99% of the time it is blue, or some variation thereof, so cobalt or cerulean or something), a weapon name (as long as it isn't gun or sword), and then throw in an actual name. So, Blue Zweihander Gene. If you want, you can tack on a subtitle that is meant to be mysterious, like "Only the edges know."

Is it THAT hard to think up your own style? With your own shading, a different way to draw the eyes, and where every panel ISN'T some overly used pose? There's NOTHING intense about, say, talking about video games. Nothing. You do it all the time and guess what - dragons aren't flying around outside your window at night, the government doesn't have super secret humaniod battallions, and not every adventure you have has to be magnified to an apex of tension.

I won't mention that every cartoon these days is pushing some anime influences, and it is tiresome. Tiresome. Tiresome. Look, we know the sweatdrop. It is and has integrated into American culture. WE DON'T FUCKING NEED IT ANYMORE.

We don't need adolescent kids running around with their friends in some sort of fantasy world where there is an evil force hellbent on destroying everything, but for SOME reason they just CAN'T get away from this one kid and his friends.

The fascination with names needs to stop. Konseka Ganseikai. Look, I can make them up too. Jingai Goujinsetazuo. Holy shit! I did it again!

If someone can please explain to me why seemingly everyone has a hardon for anime these days - in their stories, in their art, in cartoons, in webcomics, in every last goddamn scifi or fantasy novel at Barnes and Nobles - I'd really appreciate it.

I like anime. I always have. I knew about before it was really in the mainstream, but right now it's just sad. It would be one thing if it wasn't so transparently copied that EVERYTHING that employees it wasn't just a palette change, but that's not the case. It's all a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, when the original fascimile wasn't all that great to begin with. In other words, if we had Cowboy Bebop calibur stuff running around all over the place, I could forgive it. But it's like Pokemon copying Pokemon copying DBZ.

Just fucking stop it.

Give me some goddamn originality these days. It's possible, I know it is.

//yes, a poor attempt at a rant, but meh, I'm not looking for approval

[jmcc]

I feel the same exact way...

[jmcc]

About cubism.

[Brak]

I agree. Anything that's "different", compared to your mentioned style, automatically sucks in the eyes of trollish children and man-boys across the 'Net.

Unlike you, and I feel sad to say this, I don't think it's possible for originality. :'(

A "drawererer" myself, I get easily annoyed at the new standard... so, more bitching to come (when I'm not at work)...

[sblymnlcrymnl]

It's those damn koreans with their affordable animation studios. :bomb: :lol:

[rabbitt]

We don't need adolescent kids running around with their friends in some sort of fantasy world where there is an evil force hellbent on destroying everything, but for SOME reason they just CAN'T get away from this one kid and his friends.



It's important for children and teens to have a strong imagination. (Now, for 15-19 year-olds to be running around role-playing, well...that's just weird) With or without Anime shows and graphic novels, kids will be running around immersed in their own world.

I agree with most of your Anime irks, however. It is an overly-cliched genre of cartoons and comics. Why, I was thinking the same exact thing as you when I paused on Cartoon Network for a minute.

[soonersfan60]

(Now, for 15-19 year-olds to be running around role-playing, well...that's just weird).

Tell that to all the 20-somethings who played Dungeons & Dragons in college. I liked the video games, but never understood the paper-based RPGs.

Dane.

[jmcc]

Tell that to all the 20-somethings who played Dungeons & Dragons in college. I liked the video games, but never understood the paper-based RPGs.

Dane.
If lotteries are the tax for those who are bad at math, D&D is the tax for people who're good at it.

[Metal Boss]

memememe

[2poor]

the only anime people need to watch is akira. no overly big breasts or eyes.

[SpazX]

I just hate anime

[Moxio]

No anime noooooo :cry:

[Apossum]

The good stuff is REALLY good (though my impression of "good" anime is crap to most other people who like it....but i'm not into the typical stuff...i'm just a guy who likes well-done art, stories, movies etc.) but most of it's bad. I don't understand how shows like DBZ and Naruto are so damn popular.

The influence, I don't see as much. From what i understand, it's in a lot of kids cartoons and webcomics, but i hardly watch/read those.

Tell that to all the 20-somethings who played Dungeons & Dragons in college. I liked the video games, but never understood the paper-based RPGs.

funny you mention that. i was just looking through the clubs list here at UW...there are about 15 D+D clubs, easily outranking the number of any one type of "cultural/leisure" club. I couldn't even get into d+d when I was 12, can't imagine i'd like it now. :lol:

[Kapwanil]

The first thing you want to do is to follow jmcc (member.php?u=5382)'s link in his sig to Achewood. That'll help get a lot of the anime-influenced webcomic junk out of your system.

[kakomu]

the only anime people need to watch is akira. no overly big breasts or eyes.
No plot either. The only redeeming quality was Cam Clarke, and they nixed him in the newer "better" (worse) dub.

[crystalklear64]

The anime style has become popular, and it may or may not change in time. That said, there are many things about anime that lend itself well to simple comics. Facial expressions are as easy as drawing bigger eyes or a smaller mouth. None of those complicated wrinkles (read: talent required) or scrunches that a real face would do. Also, no one questions the physically impossible hairstyles/colors of anime characters. When I think of quality animation, I don't think of anime, I think of works by artists like Don Bluth and Walt Disney (when it was done by Walt). Anyway, as long as anime is here, its a part of american culture, the whole melting pot thing... so we have to live with it until its popularity dies down, or its quality goes up.

[itspaidgasterblaster]

You guys are right but, if you guys are so picky about stuff then you won't enjoy anything, I love RGP's but just about all of them revolve around the same premise. I love anime but just about everything is utterly childish. I don't need to have a deep story all the times or amazing art direction, sometimes we just need a break from reality. (not that i would play d&d's at my age) Its so simple to avoid the things you guys said just don't look at all the anime you guys call crap and just enjoy the ones you guys like.

[Graystone]

I hate anime its stupid to me. I have noticed what OP means in other places then internet. Watch almost any cartoon on tv nowadays and it has the anime influence. It's really annoying IMO.

[jmcc]

The first thing you want to do is to follow jmcc (member.php?u=5382)'s link in his sig to Achewood. That'll help get a lot of the anime-influenced webcomic junk out of your system.
They won't, which is a shame, because the current arc is shaping up to be awesome. I can't blame people, though. Achewood doesn't lend itself to casual reading at all.

[TurkeyOnRye]

I think it depends on how much of the anime a program leeches. I dig the look of Teen Titans. Sure it has some anime-ness to it, but I think it's much closer to the incredible Batman:TAS than anything else, with some anime quirks that actually give it charm rather than detract.

I agree. Anything that's "different", compared to your mentioned style, automatically sucks in the eyes of trollish children and man-boys across the 'Net.

Unlike you, and I feel sad to say this, I don't think it's possible for originality. :'(

A "drawererer" myself, I get easily annoyed at the new standard... so, more bitching to come (when I'm not at work)...

It's not just kids, my friend, it's teenagers and young adults as well. Back in college (you know, way back like 4 years ago) I took a LOTR class because it sounded like fun and I had always been interested in LOTR but never really delved into it. The class was basically getting together and reading a chapter in the book and discussing what we were reading on our own. Of course, a bunch of the students in the class were the self-indulgent honors system asses (not all honors students are asses, but you know the ones) that knew everything there was to know on LOTR, anime and the such.

I basically sat in the class and would draw pictures on what I thought the characters looked like (not having seen the recently released first movie) and they were pretty damn good if I do say so myself. I tried to take a realistic approach to my work.

One day I happened to have to sit next to an honor student who drew in class too and she happened to be penciling out the typical anime school girl with a sword b.s. to the ooh's and aah's of her pals. The whore actually had the gall to look over at my paper and say "that's not bad" in a derogatory way sugar coated in pseudo-politeness.

I wanted to spit in her trendy thick rimmed "nerd" glasses.

[DuelLadyS]

I'm kida tired of it myself... it's one thing to do an entertaining and tasteful homage to the genre (Megas XLR), it's another to throw in stereotypical anime conventions for no other reason than an extra sell point (Teen Titans, amongst other far worse things I can't remember names of right now.)

Unfortunately, young trend-geeks seem to have no attention span, so it's all about quanity and not quality. It's OK if this shitty webcomic sucks, all I need is 10,000 hits to my webstore while it's the 'in' comic and I win! Then they can move on to something else. (I know a girl like this... I see her once a year at a con... and every single time, she's got a new 'best show/game ever' to worship. I've tried bringing up the previous year's item-of-choice before, and gotten nothing but bizzarre 'what's that' stares.)

The best thing to do is simply avoid contact with as much of it as you can. I read awhile back that sales of anime (real anime, not rip-off junk) plateaued- meaning we've hit the saturation point. it should calm down soon enough.

[Reality's Fringe]

Without Anime, where else will I satiate my rape fantasies? You didn't think about that one, DID YOU?!

[sblymnlcrymnl]

I think it depends on how much of the anime a program leeches. I dig the look of Teen Titans. Sure it has some anime-ness to it, but I think it's much closer to the incredible Batman:TAS than anything else, with some anime quirks that actually give it charm rather than detract.Like I said, it's those damn koreans with their affordable animation studios. I'm surprised Futurama didn't come out looking like that. :roll: :lol:

[Apossum]

They won't, which is a shame, because the current arc is shaping up to be awesome. I can't blame people, though. Achewood doesn't lend itself to casual reading at all.


ahhhh..so it's part of a larger story? i was gonna say, that strip makes less sense then most anime :lol:

[kakomu]

I know a girl like this... I see her once a year at a con... and every single time, she's got a new 'best show/game ever' to worship. I've tried bringing up the previous year's item-of-choice before, and gotten nothing but bizzarre 'what's that' stares.)
That's why if you look at animenfo.com, the top 100 or whatever animes that are rated the highest by fans are all from about 2001 till now. I think the top 10 is a cluster of shows from 2004-2005, and maybe Evangelion.

Personally, I'm bored of anime, not because of the look or style, but rather, because of the cliches that appear to be present in all of them. However, I'm thinking that some of those cliches are just present in Japanese media, or in Japanese Life. Battle Royale is essentially a live-action anime.

[jmcc]

ahhhh..so it's part of a larger story? i was gonna say, that strip makes less sense then most anime :lol:
The strip is really character driven. So if you don't start at the beginning and get the whole view of how the characters tick, you just won't find it funny. It is though. How many other comics can get away with a robotic lying machine convincing a 6 year old that by touching a flower he got it pregnant and has to marry it to do the honorable thing? Then the kid's pen-pal from Japan comes and picks the flower to present to her friend by mail on their first meeting?

[sblymnlcrymnl]

The strip is really character driven. So if you don't start at the beginning and get the whole view of how the characters tick, you just won't find it funny. It is though. How many other comics can get away with a robotic lying machine convincing a 6 year old that by touching a flower he got it pregnant and has to marry it to do the honorable thing? Then the kid's pen-pal from Japan comes and picks the flower to present to her friend by mail on their first meeting?I see the funny, but how do the characters matter? Maybe you need a better example. :lol:

[WebScud]

I think it depends on how much of the anime a program leeches. I dig the look of Teen Titans. Sure it has some anime-ness to it, but I think it's much closer to the incredible Batman:TAS than anything else, with some anime quirks that actually give it charm rather than detract.

I'd glady give Bruce Timm or Paul Dinni any organ they needed in a time of crisis.

[zionoverfire]

How about we stop using anything Mario related while we're at it, if they is one thing that's been beaten to death worse than anime it's fucking mario.

[jmcc]

I see the funny, but how do the characters matter? Maybe you need a better example. :lol:
Yeah, I suppose. Because there's an even amount of non-wacky bits in the series that end up just as funny, if not moreso, because of the backstory of the characters. Roast Beef seems like a pretty blase character if you pick a random strip with him in it, but when you add in his background from previous strips and his blog (the author goes as far as to create blogs for all the main characters in the comic which are updated regularly) he goes beyond being just a 2 dimensional straightman to something much better.

[willardhaven]

I don't understand why people are always badmouthing dragon ball... in the 80's that stuff was completely mind blowing.

The 42 original Dragon Ball comic novels are incredibly illustrated, with a pretty good story.

As for getting sick of anime, it's easy not to if you don't consider it a "genre". Treat all cartoons equally, don't put something on a pedestal just because it's from Japan.

As the market for more mature animation grows in the U.S. I think you'll see an increase in "original" or less Asian-influenced animation.

[GuilewasNK]

It's amazing to me that people even care that much about it. I wish people would stop making romantic tragedies for example. They are ripping off Shakespeare so badly. :roll: Unless "Redneck Joe" is actually trying to make a show with all Japanese characters, all Japanese names, entirely in Japanese then I don't see the big deal. It's a style/technique in art. Art styles and techniques have been borrowed and sampled throughout all of history. Why should animation or anime be any different? ANIME ISN'T THAT SACRED! And that's coming from a huge anime fan BTW. Teen Titans borrows from Japanese anime style but is is still unique. I certainly wasn't up in arms when Project A-ko suggested that a Japanese A-ko was the daughter of Superman and Wonder Woman. I doubt anyone from Japan was like, "stop ripping off American comics!" either. Goku borrows heavily from Superman too. I'd much rather see anime art styles copied than see crap like 12. oz Mouse or more half-assed Williams Street art-style fodder (Space Ghost and ATHF not included since they are actually funny most of the time).

I like anime. I always have. I knew about before it was really in the mainstream, but right now it's just sad.

I find that a lot of people who feel this way were "in the know" about anime before it hit big in the US. It's the same feelings people have for FFVII bringing a new fanbase to RPGs.

The funny thing is that Batman and Justice League Unlimited borrow as heavily from anime as any show (the simple facial and body designs for example). The only reason people don't complain is that it doesn't have those anime "trademarks" such as the sweatdrop you mentioned. But then, not all anime has that either.

[Kapwanil]

They won't, which is a shame, because the current arc is shaping up to be awesome. I can't blame people, though. Achewood doesn't lend itself to casual reading at all.

When my friends started extolling the virtues of Roast Beef and I caught up with most of the backlog I found it to be one of the best webcomics I've ever read.

And this arc just seems like it's going to be absolutely sick. I really want to see how Ray is going to hold up throughout the entire thing and I really do want to see Beef be a complete badass.

Ahhhh...like most things, tight writing and interesting characters makes a world of difference...

[kakomu]

I find that a lot of people who feel this way were "in the know" about anime before it hit big in the US. It's the same feelings people have for FFVII bringing a new fanbase to RPGs.
It happens with any media.

[jmcc]

When my friends started extolling the virtues of Roast Beef and I caught up with most of the backlog I found it to be one of the best webcomics I've ever read.

And this arc just seems like it's going to be absolutely sick. I really want to see how Ray is going to hold up throughout the entire thing and I really do want to see Beef be a complete badass.

Ahhhh...like most things, tight writing and interesting characters makes a world of difference...
"I ain't need no Dell Inspiron to bust a man down on into his component pieces." That and the immediately subsequent crippling of the other competitor in the Fight reminded me why I like Beef so much.

[DuelLadyS]

I'd much rather see anime art styles copied than see crap like 12. oz Mouse

....Point, set, match.

[TurkeyOnRye]

Regardless, I believe everyone can agree on one thing.

GI Joe: Sigma Six does not need to exist. Period.

Just look at what they did to Scarlett.

[crystalklear64]

I'd much rather see anime art styles copied than see crap like 12. oz Mouse
I like the originallity. That art style is a major inspiration to all my works of art in MS Paint, and my current comic...

[Mookyjooky]

Seriously. Can we please find another style to rip off repeatedly?

Every new webcomic in the goddamn world is nothing but feminine men and big breasted me-too women running around with triangle mouths, super powers, and angst. Throw in some half-ass wish-it-was-but-it-sorely-isn't lines and darkness. Oh, and don't forget the strange title, where you pick, say, a color (99% of the time it is blue, or some variation thereof, so cobalt or cerulean or something), a weapon name (as long as it isn't gun or sword), and then throw in an actual name. So, Blue Zweihander Gene. If you want, you can tack on a subtitle that is meant to be mysterious, like "Only the edges know."

Is it THAT hard to think up your own style? With your own shading, a different way to draw the eyes, and where every panel ISN'T some overly used pose? There's NOTHING intense about, say, talking about video games. Nothing. You do it all the time and guess what - dragons aren't flying around outside your window at night, the government doesn't have super secret humaniod battallions, and not every adventure you have has to be magnified to an apex of tension.

I won't mention that every cartoon these days is pushing some anime influences, and it is tiresome. Tiresome. Tiresome. Look, we know the sweatdrop. It is and has integrated into American culture. WE DON'T FUCKING NEED IT ANYMORE.

We don't need adolescent kids running around with their friends in some sort of fantasy world where there is an evil force hellbent on destroying everything, but for SOME reason they just CAN'T get away from this one kid and his friends.

The fascination with names needs to stop. Konseka Ganseikai. Look, I can make them up too. Jingai Goujinsetazuo. Holy shit! I did it again!

If someone can please explain to me why seemingly everyone has a hardon for anime these days - in their stories, in their art, in cartoons, in webcomics, in every last goddamn scifi or fantasy novel at Barnes and Nobles - I'd really appreciate it.

I like anime. I always have. I knew about before it was really in the mainstream, but right now it's just sad. It would be one thing if it wasn't so transparently copied that EVERYTHING that employees it wasn't just a palette change, but that's not the case. It's all a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, when the original fascimile wasn't all that great to begin with. In other words, if we had Cowboy Bebop calibur stuff running around all over the place, I could forgive it. But it's like Pokemon copying Pokemon copying DBZ.

Just fucking stop it.

Give me some goddamn originality these days. It's possible, I know it is.

//yes, a poor attempt at a rant, but meh, I'm not looking for approval

Dude, I was just thinking this yesterday. It's really out of control. I loved anime when it was called japanimation and KMFDM was the theme song to people looking like devils and cops with grenades hanging from his pubes. But now its one "please teacher" POS after another. Cowboy Bebop, Akira, Samurai Champloo (Maybe), Ninja Scroll, the Matrix Animes were a throwback to old styles, and hell... I'll even say I enjoyed Love Hina a little... but most anime these days are mind numbingly boring as all hell.

And now back to the anime style, its easy to make it look good, and people who cant draw, draw that. Thats pretty much it.

Read these webcomics, other than PA and CAD - they're pretty good....

http://www.wapsisquare.com/
http://www.punksandnerds.com/index.html
http://www.robandelliot.cycomics.com/
http://cheston.com/pbf/archive.html

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Add this to the overexposure of hip hop, rap, cheesy poofy blonde singers, boy bands and entertainers that think they're Nobel fucking prize winning political scientists to the things I'm sick of.

[GuilewasNK]

Can anyone name ten American shows that rip the anime style? It really doesn't seem like that many do it IMO.

[Mookyjooky]

Can anyone name ten American shows that rip the anime style? It really doesn't seem like that many do it IMO.

You know, I tried to do this, and only came up with 5 US shows that have Jp influences.

Teen Titans (sucks FLCL's cock so badly, though I love the show)
Winx
Ben10
GI Joe Sigma 6
TMNT

But Jp shows, do take up about a 1/3 of most US cartoon lineups.

Also, as far as cartoons are concerned, this has been going on forever... and lets not forget that Transformers, Silverhawks, Voltron, Thundercats, etc...etc...were all Jp shows...only popularized in the US heavily.

[crystalklear64]

Totally Spies.

[GuilewasNK]

Totally Spies.

I admit, that show is a guilty pleasure of mine. :lol: I think I even made a topic about it once.

[Chacrana]

I love anime and own way too much, but yeah, I definitely see what you're saying. It got popular over here and now everyone's trying to copy it and doing a shit job of it. Tis' the American way.

[GuilewasNK]

I love anime and own way too much, but yeah, I definitely see what you're saying. It got popular over here and now everyone's trying to copy it and doing a shit job of it. Tis' the American way.

The only problem is that most American toons are kind of shitty to start with in regards to art. Disney's stuff is usually decent (Gargoyles is still one of the finest examples of American animation I can think of), Warner Bros' DC toons are great looking and that is about it. It's almost as if American animation purposefully goes for an ugly look. It's the Ren and Stimpy effect. Most American toons are crudely drawn an only focus on "humor". Batman, Batman Beyond, JLU and Gargoyles are some of the only American dramatic/action cartoons (that weren't drawn in a half-assed way) that gained real popularity in the US.

[Mookyjooky]

The only problem is that most American toons are kind of shitty to start with in regards to art. Disney's stuff is usually decent (Gargoyles is still one of the finest examples of American animation I can think of), Warner Bros' DC toons are great looking and that is about it. It's almost as if American animation purposefully goes for an ugly look. It's the Ren and Stimpy effect. Most American toons are crudely drawn an only focus on "humor". Batman, Batman Beyond, JLU and Gargoyles are some of the only American dramatic/action cartoons (that weren't drawn in a half-assed way) that gained real popularity in the US.

Maybe ugly, but Ren and Stimpy probably took more time to make one episode than 5 Jp animes combined. One thing I hate about Anime is that everything looks like its 15 frames a sec. Watching Ghost in the Shell: SAC is like watching paint dry. They just have a character stand still for 35 mins only moving their mouth and then have a 2 min action sequence. Sense the story is usually stolen Gibson material set to suck, I just Tivo them and FF to the cool parts.

[GuilewasNK]

Maybe ugly, but Ren and Stimpy probably took more time to make one episode than 5 Jp animes combined. One thing I hate about Anime is that everything looks like its 15 frames a sec. Watching Ghost in the Shell: SAC is like watching paint dry. They just have a character stand still for 35 mins only moving their mouth and then have a 2 min action sequence. Sense the story is usually stolen Gibson material set to suck, I just Tivo them and FF to the cool parts.

There is some truth to that. That is a trade off for the highly detailed backgrounds and characters. I prefer it that way but I can understand how some don't care for it. That is why shows like Justice League are so important IMO. I has the smoother animation of American shows and the detail and style of anime. It wraps all of that in a package that is unique to anything else available.

[kakomu]

There is some truth to that. That is a trade off for the highly detailed backgrounds and characters. I prefer it that way but I can understand how some don't care for it. That is why shows like Justice League are so important IMO. I has the smoother animation of American shows and the detail and style of anime. It wraps all of that in a package that is unique to anything else available.
Historically, Japanese cartoons were drawn much simpler so that they can have a higher framerate. American cartoons may have higher framerates, NOW, but even 10 years ago, American cartoon framerates were not that high. Let alone 20-25 years ago.

However, Japanese-style plain animation turned into more of artistic style rather than a necessity to make smoother animation. Only thing is that Japanese animation hasn't really evolved that much since shows from the 80s, like Gundam Z. Certainly the animation is cleaner, the video quality is better, and they use computers now, but there is no evolution.

[GuilewasNK]

Historically, Japanese cartoons were drawn much simpler so that they can have a higher framerate. American cartoons may have higher framerates, NOW, but even 10 years ago, American cartoon framerates were not that high. Let alone 20-25 years ago.



With the exception of Disney feature films, that is true as well.

[Brak]

There were a lot (and I mean a lot) of lucid animations from the United States at the dawn of animation, other than Disney features -- for instance, the famous Gulliver's Travels feature.

A lot of the early Warner Bros. stuff (Merry Melodies, specifically) had higher framerates (although often cycled, still very high) than most cartoons today. Not to mention virtually everything in the frame was animated, as they hadn't caught on to using paintings as backgrounds and mid-grounds (and even foregrounds).

It wasn't a matter of skill and technology, between the US and Japan... but merely saving time (money) and money.

[Xevious]

Truth be told- Anime Animators are animators who never bothered to study human anatomy. Thats why they have all those big eyes and misshapen heads.

I myself am an animator and anime has never really been interesting to me.

[GuilewasNK]

There were a lot (and I mean a lot) of lucid animations from the United States at the dawn of animation, other than Disney features -- for instance, the famous Gulliver's Travels feature.

A lot of the early Warner Bros. stuff (Merry Melodies, specifically) had higher framerates (although often cycled, still very high) than most cartoons today. Not to mention virtually everything in the frame was animated, as they hadn't caught on to using paintings as backgrounds and mid-grounds (and even foregrounds).

It wasn't a matter of skill and technology, between the US and Japan... but merely saving time (money) and money.I forgot about animated shorts from the 40's and 50's. Since they were typically seven minute shorts (designed for theater, not TV), they could devote great resources to animation as opposed to a multi-episode TV show. I loved MGM's stuff (Tom and Jerry primarily). The 60's version of Tom and Jerry was complete crap though.

[Brak]

I forgot about animated shorts from the 40's and 50's. Since they were typically seven minute shorts (designed for theater, not TV), they could devote great resources to animation as opposed to a multi-episode TV show. I loved MGM's stuff (Tom and Jerry primarily). The 60's version of Tom and Jerry was complete crap though.

I believe, and ironically enough, that the '60s Tom & Jerry animations were done by Japanese animators. Whatever subtle style they were aiming for was very similar to that of Dr. Suess illustrations -- and it just didn't work.

Another old U.S. cartoon that was (and maybe still is) visually stunning is the old Superman shorts. You can download some of them at www.archive.org, as they are now public domain. Just look in the "Moving Images" section of the archive.

[willardhaven]

Another old U.S. cartoon that was (and maybe still is) visually stunning is the old Superman shorts.

QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.

[jacobv]

I'm another one of those guys that just doesn't like Anime at all.

[willardhaven]

Sorry to keep adding info, but Thundercats, Silverhawks and the Hobbit movie were all made by Rankin/Bass with Topcraft (which had members of studio Ghibli).

I'm just trying to explain that the influence didn't just get here. Eastern and Western artists have been mixing it up for quite some time. What is happening now is that a lot of terrible Japanese cartoons are being localized and turned into something even worse.

[GuilewasNK]

QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.

:applause:

Avatar is actually pretty cool. :)

Brak is right about the old school Superman toons also. I have a DVD of them and they are quite good.

I am just an animation junkie in general.

[willardhaven]

I'm another one of those guys that just doesn't like Anime at all.

It's kind of hard to get into with all the annoying fans who refuse to watch anything that doesn't come from the far east.

I always recommend Cowboy Bebop to people who hate anime, because it is a pretty American-feeling cartoon.

[crystalklear64]

QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.

Code Lyoko is French.

After doing some searching, I couldn't find the frame rate, but I think The Secret of Nimh is pretty freaking awesome. Animations look very smooth to me, and the character designs are nicely done. Don Bluth is amazing.

[Roufuss]

Code Lyoko is French.

It also horribly sucks.

[989boi]

I never knew the Simpson was animated by a korean studio. All this time I always thought it was done in America.

[Ziv_Zulander]

That's not an uncommon thing, alot of companies had the shows animated in Korea because it's cheaper

[GuilewasNK]

I never knew the Simpson was animated by a korean studio. All this time I always thought it was done in America.

Most animation is done in Korea because they can pay less.

*edit* I just realized I echoed the above post.

[Xevious]

I never knew the Simpson was animated by a korean studio. All this time I always thought it was done in America.

Let me clarify something.

Keyframes are made here in the USA. The In-between frames are made in Korean, Taiwan and India where they have the resources and labor is cheap.

In animation, a key frame is a frame in an animated sequence of frames that was drawn or otherwise constructed directly by the user. When all frames were drawn by animators, the senior artist would draw these frames, leaving the "in between" frames to an apprentice. Now, the animator creates only the first and last frames of a simple sequence; the apprentice fills in the gap. This is called tweening.

So in this case, the apprentices are the people in Korea.

[kakomu]

Let me clarify something.

Keyframes are made here in the USA. The In-between frames are made in Korean, Taiwan and India where they have the resources and labor is cheap.

In animation, a key frame is a frame in an animated sequence of frames that was drawn or otherwise constructed directly by the user. When all frames were drawn by animators, the senior artist would draw these frames, leaving the "in between" frames to an apprentice. Now, the animator creates only the first and last frames of a simple sequence; the apprentice fills in the gap. This is called tweening.

So in this case, the apprentices are the people in Korea.
Same thing goes for Digital video. You have a keyframe which is a full image, and every successive image after the keyframe uses that full image, and builds off of it.

[willardhaven]

Oh yeah, and I believe Winx is an Italian show.

[GuilewasNK]

BTW, is there a name for the technique that anime uses to animate mouths for speech? American animators always try to approximate real life lip movements. Anime doesn't seem to do that. Even while listening to the Japanese dub the lips don't appear to approximate the words being spoken.

[Ziv_Zulander]

That's because in Japanese Animation, the animation is done before the voices.

[GuilewasNK]

That's because in Japanese Animation, the animation is done before the voices.

Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Can anyone name ten American shows that rip the anime style? It really doesn't seem like that many do it IMO.

I dunno if they are all American (all are Aemrican/Europeon though) but I can name more than ten use an anime art style/influence...

My Life as a Teenage Robot
Megas XLR
Avatar
Kappa Mikey (whenever they air it)
The Boondocks
Teen Titans
Pretty much every animated DC show (JLU, Batman Beyond, etc.)
The Batman
Jackie Chan adventures
all of the crappy French animated shows (Code Lyoko, Winx Club, Tottally spies, etc.)
Powerpuff Girls
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Junper Lee
Ben 10
Samurai Jack
Star Wars Clone Wars


I could probably go on and that's not to say i don't enjoy some of them, but I'd def. say there's 10 or more.

[Ziv_Zulander]

Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.


Lip-synch?

[GuilewasNK]

The influence goes both ways too. Granted, I understand that it is a larger scale with American toons being influenced by anime but still...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

The history of anime begins at the start of the 20th century, when Japanese filmmakers experimented with the animation techniques that were being explored in the West.

While different titles and different artists have their own unique artistic styles, many stylistic elements have become extremely common. Some examples have become so common that they are often described as being definitive of anime in general, and have been given names of their own. The most common is the large eyes style drawn on many anime characters, common mainly due to the influence of Osamu Tezuka, who was inspired by the exaggerated features of Western cartoon characters such as Betty Boop and Mickey Mouse and from Disney's Bambi. Tezuka found that large eyes allowed his characters to better express their emotions.

[kakomu]

Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.
It's called cheap, yet efficient animation. They animate 3-4 frames for opening the mouth, reverse them for closing and just flap the lips for the time it takes them to speak.

There's also the 1-2 frame mouth movements of later Evangelion episodes (interspersed with those 2 minutes of nothing scenes).

[Xevious]

Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.

Are you thinking about "Automatic Dialog Replacement" or ADR for short. Basically an actor looks at the cartoon on the screen and says the dialog according to the lip movements.

Not all actors can do this. Only some voice-actors have the talent to say something that will fit the mouthing of words on a screen. Others dont.

[GuilewasNK]

That's sounds like what I was thinking about.

[Mouse]

While not my favorite style of animation, I tolerated it until they used it in the Teen Titans cartoon. If they want to use it on an original show, sure. Go ahead. But if they use it to ruin one of the greatest comic books of my childhood, they've crossed the shaq-fuing rubicon. I'm perfectly fine with anime, but the americanime (is that a word?) needs to stop.

Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.

[GuilewasNK]

While not my favorite style of animation, I tolerated it until they used it in the Teen Titans cartoon. If they want to use it on an original show, sure. Go ahead. But if they use it to ruin one of the greatest comic books of my childhood, they've crossed the shaq-fuing rubicon. I'm perfectly fine with anime, but the americanime (is that a word?) needs to stop.

Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.

I don't know a lot about the Teen Titans comics but I have seen enough to understand why someone would feel that way. I don't think it ruined Batman though. Tim Burton did that.

[Mouse]

The Teen Titans cartoon show draws it's story from Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans of the early 80s. And they rape it to the ground.

Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.

With the Teen Titans however, they decided to rip out two of the founding members (who were also founders of the ORIGINAL Teen Titans) remove all of the interesting subplots, and leave it as a dried husk of the original comic. The crappy animation is just an extra slap on the face of the rest of the crap-fest they've turned it into.

I guess people who never read the original might like it, but to me it's diluted, kiddie, and absolutely appalling.

I guess there's always the chance of a live action movie...

[DuelLadyS]

Oh yeah, and I believe Winx is an Italian show.

I watched through all of the first season of that show trying to figure out were the hell it was made. :bouncy:

[GuilewasNK]

The Teen Titans cartoon show draws it's story from Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans of the early 80s. And they rape it to the ground.

Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.

With the Teen Titans however, they decided to rip out two of the founding members (who were also founders of the ORIGINAL Teen Titans) remove all of the interesting subplots, and leave it as a dried husk of the original comic. The crappy animation is just an extra slap on the face of the rest of the crap-fest they've turned it into.

I guess people who never read the original might like it, but to me it's diluted, kiddie, and absolutely appalling.

I guess there's always the chance of a live action movie...

I can understand that point of view. That is probably why I like it. I never read much of the comic. That is one thing about american comics that bothers me. A successful comic will have so many different incarnations, storylines, and origins that it can get really confusing.

Batman: TAS was and still is great for sure. Gonna watch some today now that you mention it.

[Brak]

I have my own style of drawing -- where I've borrowed, mix-matched everything I've ever seen in cartoons, comics, film and real life. I'd love to, for fun (and I've thought about this), my own manga/anime-esque styled comic strip (ala-"Gigantor"/"Astro Boy"/ "Speed Racer") as a side-project. I'll still retain my style, and it will remain evident in the art and story direction -- and this is important to me. I don't like completely aping other peoples' styles.

You know: actually make it mine.

[crystalklear64]

Tim Burton did that.
*Darth Vader voice* Nooooooooooooooooo! How could you?

[GuilewasNK]

*Darth Vader voice* Nooooooooooooooooo! How could you?

Sorry man. The first movie was good but the second one less than ideal IMO.

[Roufuss]

No one has mentioned Boondocks yet?

That show is inspired completely by anime influence in mind and drawing... just look at Sunday's episode.

[Mookyjooky]

Sorry man. The first movie was good but the second one less than ideal IMO.

In all fairness to Tim, he was never on set very much, it was ghost directed. WB and Tim had some issues, and Tim was like screw it... and WB pretty much let him walk and finished it and keep Tim's name on it.

You know what annoys the hell out of me though? People who rant in topics and never respond again. It becomes less of a rant, and more of just a bitch-fest and a move-on.

[GuilewasNK]

No one has mentioned Boondocks yet?

That show is inspired completely by anime influence in mind and drawing... just look at Sunday's episode.

Yeah, the visuals are definitely anime inspired. The content is definitely not though, lol.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.


Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.


That's what I call a contradiction...

[Roufuss]

Yeah, the visuals are definitely anime inspired. The content is definitely not though, lol.

Look at last Sunday's episode... lots of anime inspired fighting scenes, one episode had the samurai fight in the woods.

Last Sunday's episode was REALLY weak, because Boondocks isn't an action oriented fighting show, imo.

[crazytalkx]

That's what I call a contradiction...

Well he was talking about The Batman at first, the new cartoon series. The old one.........:drool: I loved it to death. I like the Teen Titans though....just fun show I guess but the anime bits are overdone.

[willardhaven]

Yeah, what the heck is going on with the Boondocks cartoon? Why is there so much fighting and action? It's supposed to be a comedy.

[Mookyjooky]

That's what I call a contradiction...

I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad

[GuilewasNK]

Look at last Sunday's episode... lots of anime inspired fighting scenes, one episode had the samurai fight in the woods.

Last Sunday's episode was REALLY weak, because Boondocks isn't an action oriented fighting show, imo.


When I say content I meant the dialogue and satire. The rampant n-bombs are definitely not anime inspired, lol.

[GuilewasNK]

I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad

Probably. The Batman vs. Dracula was pretty good, but other than that it hasn't impressed me. I'll still end up getting the DVD one day though. I like the way they do the fight scenes but with Batman that should be secondary to the dectective work IMO.

[Duo_Maxwell]

I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad

Yes but they are both "americanime" as he calls it. Maybe if they actually got Sunrise to do all the animation work for them again The Batman would be good.

[kakomu]

I found Samurai Jack to be one of the more blatant rip offs of the Anime style. On top of which, it wasn't particularly interesting or fun to watch.

[Mookyjooky]

Yes but they are both "americanime" as he calls it. Maybe if they actually got Sunrise to do all the animation work for them again The Batman would be good.

True, whatever happened to Sunrise? That house was the Jesus Christ of Anime.

[Mookyjooky]

I found Samurai Jack to be one of the more blatant rip offs of the Anime style. On top of which, it wasn't particularly interesting or fun to watch.

Really? I thought more like crappy flash animation.

[Kayden]

I think this thread needs to be called animEMO. If you like an anime that more that 5 people have heard of, you suck. If it's not already a classic, it never will be. Finally, you're a total tool for going along with the mass market and enjoying the mainstream.


:roll:

[GuilewasNK]

I think this thread needs to be called animEMO. If you like an anime that more that 5 people have heard of, you suck. If it's not already a classic, it never will be. Finally, you're a total tool for going along with the mass market and enjoying the mainstream.


:roll:

You can actually apply that to any form of entertainment IMO.

[TurkeyOnRye]

Reading all of the posts... I'm beginning to realize that the lines everyone iterprets as pure "American" and pure "Anime" are fuzzy. When I think of American, I either think of Looney Toons/Disney/Simpsons/Family Guy-ish or G.I. Joe/X-Men(90's)/Spiderman(90's)
and Anime as... well... anime. Anything coming from Japan and translated.

Someone said that Batman:TAS is "americanime" and I couldn't disagree more. I don't see the connection between basic anime conventions and TAS besides it being composed of simple lines and that isn't good enough for me. It was simply a different piece of art never really seen before and everyone felt the need to catagorize it instead of just saying it's original.

I think the same goes for alot of Cartoon Network's Cartoon-Cartoons. Dexter's Lab has a very "new" American look, but pays tribute to anime in some obviously anime-inspired scenes (giant mechs or the Speed Racer tribute anyone?)

[willardhaven]

Someone said that Batman:TAS is "americanime" and I couldn't disagree more. I don't see the connection between basic anime conventions and TAS besides it being composed of simple lines and that isn't good enough for me. It was simply a different piece of art never really seen before and everyone felt the need to catagorize it instead of just saying it's original.

I think the same goes for alot of Cartoon Network's Cartoon-Cartoons. Dexter's Lab has a very "new" American look, but pays tribute to anime in some obviously anime-inspired scenes (giant mechs or the Speed Racer tribute anyone?)

I agree... Take each piece as an original. You can't fault something for its influence.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Someone said that Batman:TAS is "americanime" and I couldn't disagree more. I don't see the connection between basic anime conventions and TAS besides it being composed of simple lines and that isn't good enough for me. It was simply a different piece of art never really seen before and everyone felt the need to catagorize it instead of just saying it's original.


It was animated by Sunrise Inc... in Japan IIRC... using their artists, techniques, and styles. American artists storyboarded some of it and did some character designing but it was without a doubt one of the real first successful collabortions using the talent and art of an overseas animation company and the frist real sucessful "americanime" so to speak. The high framerate and smooth art wasn't even that uncommon in Japan animation studios, just over here at the time. Just because it was good doesn't mean it wasn't "americanime"...

[TurkeyOnRye]

Just because it was good doesn't mean it wasn't "americanime"...

I never said that. I just said I don't agree with the title. Americanime to me is a cartoon that is a mix of the two styles that obviously shows each style. Teen Titans is a good one that comes to mind (And yes I do like it)... it shows that it is a decendent from the Paul Dinni/Bruce Timm cartoons yet it uses the typical anime conventions (sweat drops, distorted faces, etc...). G.I. Joe Sigma Six is another example. It's an american based cartoon overhauled in anime by a japanese writer to appeal to the growing U.S. anime market. And it blows. It's quite possibly the worst example of my interpretation of "Americanime" there is.

I personally believe (and I could be wrong) that Batman:TAS doesn't fall in that catagory just because it was animated in Japan. I think the developers of the show had a certain vision for the show, a certain look, and the animators had to stay with that look. There is no anime comparible to the look of Batman:TAS as far as I know so I consider it totally original to the creators.

Someone said most of the tweener frames for shows like the Simpsons are done in Korea... but we still consider the Simpsons american. I think the same should go for Batman:TAS...