The Paypal Screw

[evo t rex]

Anyone who accepts Paypal payments should be aware of their "Seller Protection Policy", where they will cover any possible losses regarding the transaction provided you follow their strict set of rules.

If you accept a payment with an unconfimred address, if you ship to any address other than a confirmed address (even if it's off by on letter), or if you ship to an address outside the United States, then you have the distinct possibility of being screwed. You also must ship the package within 7 days of receiving the payment.

How can you get screwed?

If the payment was made with a stolen credit card or bank account number.
If the item is lost in the mail.
If the buyer makes just about ANY claim against you, such as not receiving the item, claiming it arrived broken, or whatever they make up.

If you do not follow their "Seller Protection" rules, the money will be deducted from your account, possibly even putting your account into the negatives.

There is another side to this as well.

If you sell something, anything at all, and the person pays with Paypal with a confirmed address or not, then all you have to do is ship them anything with a tracking number on it quickly and there's nothing that person can do about it.

This means that if somebody pays for something with Paypal, and you follow Paypal's "Seller Protection" to the letter, then you can send that person an empty box. As long as Paypal can track the box to a confirmed address then they won't do a thing about it.

That doesn't mean the person can't contact the authorities regarding the matter, but as far as Paypal is concerned the case would be closed.

None us this is speculation, I've spoken with Paypal representatives directly regarding these issues.

I bring all this up because yesterday I received a payment for an eBay item, and it had an unconfirmed address. My account is set up to BLOCK all payments without confirmed addresses, and yet this came through. So far, Paypal has not been able to explain this. I thought it would be a good idea to let people be aware of possible problems, as I'm sure I'm sure I'm not the first person to ever have this happen.

[Apossum]

so if someone tries to screw you, send them an empty box (or a piece of poo) with a tracking number, wait till it gets there, give the number to paypal and you're clear?

[wbc1228]

Seller Protection is a joke (make that a bad joke).

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

[wbc1228]

so if someone tries to screw you, send them an empty box (or a piece of poo) with a tracking number, wait till it gets there, give the number to paypal and you're clear?

no, a buyer can always do a chargeback with a creditcard (assuming he/she is smart enough to use one) when the dispute with paypal failed. In such a senario, your paypal account will be in the red zone (credit card gets money back from paypal, paypal gets money from you) and paypal won't help you at all even though you officially won the dispute. A delivery confirmation means nothing to paypal. Paypal is irrational. They generally side with the buyer, NOT the seller. That is all I have to say.

[secretvampire]

no, a buyer can always do a chargeback with a creditcard (assuming he/she is smart enough to use one) when the dispute with paypal failed. In such a senario, your paypal account will be in the red zone (credit card gets money back from paypal, paypal gets money from you) and paypal won't help you at all even though you officially won the dispute. A delivery confirmation means nothing to paypal. Paypal is irrational. They generally side with the buyer, NOT the seller. That is all I have to say.
And on top of that, they charge YOU the seller another $10 fee on top of all of that for "handling" the chargeback. It's a huge fucking joke, just like PayPal itself. I still use it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I wish Google would crush them into fine powder.

[Apossum]

so then you just ditch your account, start up another? or seppuku?

[evo t rex]

so if someone tries to screw you, send them an empty box (or a piece of poo) with a tracking number, wait till it gets there, give the number to paypal and you're clear?

You won't know someone is trying to screw you until it's too late. It can take weeks or even months for the transaction to get reversed on you. There's no way of knowing in advance.

[evo t rex]

no, a buyer can always do a chargeback with a creditcard (assuming he/she is smart enough to use one) when the dispute with paypal failed. In such a senario, your paypal account will be in the red zone (credit card gets money back from paypal, paypal gets money from you) and paypal won't help you at all even though you officially won the dispute. A delivery confirmation means nothing to paypal. Paypal is irrational. They generally side with the buyer, NOT the seller. That is all I have to say.

If you purchased something on Paypal and used your credit card, then ended up getting an empty box or whatever, the credit card company will NOT neseccerily refund your money to you unless you claim the credit card was used without your permission.

This happened to me in the past, and I tried the credit card company. They would not help at all. Paypal would not help. I tried the police and was sent back and forth between different people before finding out that there wasn't a whole lot they were going to do about it.

Beware the Paypal Screw.

[wbc1228]

If you purchased something on Paypal and used your credit card, then ended up getting an empty box or whatever, the credit card company will NOT neseccerily refund your money to you unless you claim the credit card was used without your permission.

This happened to me in the past, and I tried the credit card company. They would not help at all. Paypal would not help. I tried the police and was sent back and forth between different people before finding out that there wasn't a whole lot they were going to do about it.

Beware the Paypal Screw.

What credit card are you using?????

[BodyShot213]

Dude your credit card person is lying.. You can chargeback anything.

[greendj27]

Dude your credit card person is lying.. You can chargeback anything.

Yep, most cc companies allow you three per year. You really need to do some more research on this information.

[evo t rex]

What credit card are you using?????

It was a Chase Visa Credit Card. They were "unable" to assist me in that particular situation. I explained that I paid with the credit card, but it was a case of fraud and I asked what they could do. They "looked into it" and called me back the next day and told me that given the situation was done through Paypal, there was nothing they could do about it.

[YoshiFan1]

if you ship to any address other than a confirmed address (even if it's off by on letter),


How would Paypal know if the address was off by even 1 letter, since all the delivery confirmation shows is what zip code it was delivered to, not the name and full address?

[evo t rex]

How would Paypal know if the address was off by even 1 letter, since all the delivery confirmation shows is what zip code it was delivered to, not the name and full address?

You can send an item from the auction's website, paying for the postage and printing the label out via Paypal's services. If the buyer's address on eBay is slightly different from that user's 'confirmed address' on Paypal, it won't be covered.

This can easily be avoided by not shipping items via eBay's ship feature, and using either Paypal's shipping service directly, USPS's website, or just shipping it out normally.

[neocisco]

Thanks for the heads up, evo. I've always been hesitant to use Paypal after hearing so many similar stories and this just confirms it. Sorry you got screwed.

[wubb]

so if someone tries to screw you, send them an empty box (or a piece of poo) with a tracking number, wait till it gets there, give the number to paypal and you're clear?

Mail fraud is a federal crime. Not worth it.

[Squee]

I'm pretty sure that a buyer who receives an empty box could just file a SNAD claim and get a refund after sending the empty box (probably now filled with his own poo) back to the seller.

[Apossum]

Mail fraud is a federal crime. Not worth it.


I'm not talking about committing mail fraud, I'm talking about protecting yourself from someone who is trying to steal from you.

[daphatty]

That's why I use Delivery Confirmation.

[banpeikun]

And on top of that, they charge YOU the seller another $10 fee on top of all of that for "handling" the chargeback. It's a huge fucking joke, just like PayPal itself. I still use it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I wish Google would crush them into fine powder.also they don't give you the transaction fee back. so like if someone sends you $400, paypal takes like $15 of it and gives you $385. Then when you get the chargeback, paypal takes the whole $400 back plus another $10.

[Snake2715]

There are all sorts of stories. I paid before my monthly payment was due (i.e. 04/08/06 it was due on 04/15/06) then paypal went ahead and withdrew the money from my account on 04/15/06 anyway on the auto payment deal.

In my instance I have a seperate bank account set up for paypal so if i get screwed they dont have access to my real money. So I was overdrawn on my bank because paypal took two payments. Mine and then 7 days later theirs.

Then I got charged overdraw fees by my bank, by paypal and paypal would only give me credit they wouldnt return my money. On top of that they didnt care that I had already paid becuase supposedly their auto payment process starts 10 days prior to the date so I "paid to late" and it was all my fault.

It ended up costing me around $100 and a bunch of frustration. But its all water under the bridge now as that was back in 03.

Shit like this happens it sucks. And if you dont read you can get screwed.

[Jeoff]

I've been fucked out of about $250 total by paypal over the years (3 fraudulent transactions). There's no way you can protect yourself 100%. I lost $150 to a 6xx feedback seller with 99.7% positive who nuked his account and ripped off dozens of people. Only people who did chargebacks got their money back (I paid with checking account back then because I was dumb).

Buyers: Buy from proven reliable sellers only if you can. Always pay with a credit card when using Paypal, NEVER with your bank account.

Sellers: Ship only to confirmed addresses ALWAYS. That sucks that it didn't work for some reason I've never heard of that happening. Also you can only ship within the United States/Canada/wherever if you don't mind the possibility of a lower final price. Europe is always dangerous for some reason...

In general: Paypal can take money out of your account at any time for any reason. If you're worried about "accidents" happening take money out as soon as you get it. Disappearing money does happen rarely but there are so many accounts of it that it's not a myth.

The usual stuff...

[Theenternal]

I use my amex when paying or any type of significant payments. They advertise 100% online fraud protection. Once a guy shipped me some broken stuff, one simple call to the CC, got my money back.