Why aren't top tier RPG's getting brought over to the US?

[Roufuss]

It's something that's really starting to bother me... games like:

Tales of Eternia
Breath of Fire 3
Suikoden 1 + 2

Aren't getting brought over to the US? Why? These companies bring over EVERYTHING else (espically Capcom), yet they wouldn't bring over the few games that would be top sellers?

I mean, as much as I like the PSP RPG selection, I don't like Popolocrois or Legend of Heroes even comes close to something like Tales of Eternia. The minute any of those three hit the PSP, it would be like a license to print money, since it would instantly be the top RPG in the US.

Is there something I'm missing? I mean, Capcom brings over stuff like Viewtiful Joe: Red Hot Rumble and leaves Breath of Fire 3 behind?

In a world where your biggest competitor would be Astonishing Story and Legend of Heroes 2, any of these RPG's would steamroll the competition... all these companies are making a big mistake, imo. It honestly feels like the NES / SNES days again, where we're not worthy of all the RPG's. I thought companies had gotten over this, by now.

At least Square Enix has the right idea, because VP: Lenneth will instantly become the top RPG on the system in the US, just based on its competition.

[KiySeph]

You can put some of the blame on Sony of America.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/523/523360p1.html

and I REALLY wanted Suikoden I + II for the PSP.

[Roufuss]

You can put some of the blame on Sony of America.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/523/523360p1.html

and I REALLY wanted Suikoden I + II for the PSP.

Then why let Midnight Club 3 and WWE Smackdown 2006 come out??

Seems like they changed their mind against this no port policy pretty quick. Capcom has enough pull that they could get BoF 3 out here no problem.

[TheBlueWizard]

Because ports don't make any money...just ask Nintendo. Well, never mind, I guess ports do make some money. Many of the top sellers for the GBA are ports of other games (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Final Fantasy, NES classics, etc). Hmmm, well, maybe we should get some RPG's ported over.

It doesn't matter really anyway. Sony is losing this battle to Nintendo. The DS is going to win this round and the UMD/PSP is going to be a thing of the past. I have to admit that I am quite surprised, but honestly, I don't know a single person who owns a PSP. Outside of a store, I have only seen a PSP one time. Even the people who work at the EB where I shop don't bother with one.

Just a thought (or two).

TBW

[Kain Vincent]

The PSP version of Ys is also a port (for the most part).

[Chacrana]

It's more than a little sad that we can't get competant RPGs for the PSP in the US... I mean, we're getting Valkyrie Profile Lenneth, but no Tales of Eternia? That game is excellent and I thank God that the PSP is region free since I can simply import that... but I really hope that Suikoden I + II eventually makes the jump to either the US or Europe... I'd like to see an English language version of more good RPGs, but Sony seems content with putting WWE games on the system instead...

[depascal22]

That's becauase the American audience prefers shitty wrestling games, rehashed sports games, sequels, and anything with the word extreme or the letter z on the end. We would all love to see these great RPGs released over here but there's a reason why the earlier games are so rare now. No one bought them.

[Vinny]

Actually, I think Sony has an anti-2D policy or something...

And their 'direct' ports policy is a joke. All that basically means is that it can't be the same exact game, it has be like 10% different or something (so they could just add a few levels).

[Roufuss]

Actually, I think Sony has an anti-2D policy or something...

And their 'direct' ports policy is a joke. All that basically means is that it can't be the same exact game, it has be like 10% different or something (so they could just add a few levels).

I highly doubt they have an anti 2D policy in place for the PSP... Generation of Chaos, Popolocrois, I think Astonshia Story is in 2D, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, Exit... the system has a good deal of 2D games, and then games that look 3D like Megaman Powered Up but play like they are in 2D. Plus, this is Namco and Capcom we're talking about... Sony dosen't really say no to them.

I just wish I knew the answer... I hope someone announces one of these RPG's at E3.

Why does some shit like Astonshia Story get the go ahead yet Tales of Eternia is left behind?

[dafoomie]

I highly doubt they have an anti 2D policy in place for the PSP... Generation of Chaos, Popolocrois, I think Astonshia Story is in 2D, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, Exit... the system has a good deal of 2D games, and then games that look 3D like Megaman Powered Up but play like they are in 2D. Plus, this is Namco and Capcom we're talking about... Sony dosen't really say no to them.

I just wish I knew the answer... I hope someone announces one of these RPG's at E3.

Why does some shit like Astonshia Story get the go ahead yet Tales of Eternia is left behind?
Sony said no to Konami fairly easily when they wanted to bring Policenauts over. Several times, in fact. They've said no to Capcom a number of times, a lot of the games that went to Gamecube, and were later ported to PS2, were simply rejected and only brought over after they sold well on another platform. Killer 7 was initially rejected until Nintendo agreed to take it.

Many, many, many, many games that I'm interested in are rejected by SCEA. I can only hope that this leads to interest in bringing them to 360, as SNK has.

Its not a strict anti-2d policy, but 2d doesn't help your odds. They are reluctant to release niche titles. I hear Katamari Damashi took considerable arm twisting by Namco.

[zionoverfire]

Perhaps Sony thinks that the majority of US PSP buyers are not the same type of people who play classic RPGs?

[Roufuss]

Perhaps Sony thinks that the majority of US PSP buyers are not the same type of people who play classic RPGs?

This may be true if barely any RPG's were being brought over, but the stuff we have NOW and that's coming is even more dated then the games not coming over.

[dafoomie]

Perhaps Sony thinks that the majority of US PSP buyers are not the same type of people who play classic RPGs?
How about letting the market decide who plays what instead of Sony telling developers they're not allowed to sell their product? If Capcom wants to lose money, its not Sony's problem.

[The Mana Knight]

Well, since ToE and Breath of Fire III were brought to Europe, I'm just thinking Sony feels the hardcore will just import those games. It might be $10 more though.

Still, Sony IS letting Valkyrie Profile Lenneth slip by.

Well, Sony isn't completely against 2-D, they just feel that 2-D games on PS2 shouldn't be sold at regular price, especially if they are a port. If it's a completely original game, made for PS2 (such as Atelier Iris, Disgaea, Shining Tears, etc.), they will let it slip by. On PSP, if the game has never been released stateside on PS1, Sony will let the game come stateside on PSP. If it's a game that was already released on PSOne, and if its being sold at regular price, then SCEA might deny it. As for SNK games, they're only denied because they want to charge full price for their games, when they are only worth $20 in the first place, especially using that dated graphics engine and adding very little features to their home versions. I'm into SNK games, but I'd never pay more than $20 for their games, unless it's a compilation.

For the most part, I'm actually glad SCEA has a lot of quality control. They don't just have it on 2-D games, but they have it on games themselves. Before any game is cleared to manufacturer on a Sony platform, it has to go through a complete testing procedure. Many games have been delayed in the past because they've failed the testing (like Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana), and have to fix the bugs to release the game. In Japan, since there's no quality control by SCEI, there's major problems with games all the time where copies may be recalled or they have to do something special to play it. It happens on Xbox/X360 all the time, where patches are downloaded all the time because of problems. That's why games released in the U.S. has very few bugs on Playstation consoles/handhelds, all because they've been tested thorougly. Also, restricting games keeps publishers from flooding the market with a lot of crap. Just look at Japan, they have many games that are complete crap (like the Simple series) flooding the market, and many old games being remade slightly, or even ported, released one by one, being sold at a semi-budget, or even full price. That's part of the reason SCEA kind of has to do some controlling, for the U.S. doesn't end up in that same mess.

Also, those games will eventually be downloaded anyway. As much as I love those games, I could careless, since I own them all on PS1, and I'd only get another copy if I got them cheap. If I want them badly, I'll just import them from Fry's or Play Asia.

[Chacrana]

For the most part, I'm actually glad SCEA has a lot of quality control. They don't just have it on 2-D games, but they have it on games themselves. Before any game is cleared to manufacturer on a Sony platform, it has to go through a complete testing procedure. Many games have been delayed in the past because they've failed the testing (like Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana), and have to fix the bugs to release the game. In Japan, since there's no quality control by SCEI, there's major problems with games all the time where copies may be recalled or they have to do something special to play it. It happens on Xbox/X360 all the time, where patches are downloaded all the time because of problems. That's why games released in the U.S. has very few bugs on Playstation consoles/handhelds, all because they've been tested thorougly. Also, restricting games keeps publishers from flooding the market with a lot of crap. Just look at Japan, they have many games that are complete crap (like the Simple series) flooding the market, and many old games being remade slightly, or even ported, released one by one, being sold at a semi-budget, or even full price. That's part of the reason SCEA kind of has to do some controlling, for the U.S. doesn't end up in that same mess.

Can you explain the loading times on 99% of the PSP's games then?

[b3b0p]

I hardly ever pay attention to game news and don't read any of the game news sites, but is confirmed that Suikoden 1 + 2 is not coming to the U.S.? I was looking forward to and hoping for this more then VP.

[Weedy649]

If you can import the games from Europe to a region free console, you should have no complaints. Therefore, my one complaint is that i really really really want Suikoden 1 and 2 to be released here or in Europe. Two of the best games ever!

[The Mana Knight]

Can you explain the loading times on 99% of the PSP's games then?I was talking about glitches, that can cause datasaves to mess up, cause the game to constantly freeze. Loading times have nothing to do with it, unless there's a glitch causing a game to not load.

[62t]

the thing people have to remember is that those game sold very poorly in the US. (Eternia didnt get a Europe release) Not sure about BoF3, but Tales of Eternia and Suikoden 2 are failure in the US.

Sales wise RPG is still not very successful. Games like Tales of Legendia and Grandia are not even on top 20 selling games at the month of the release. A game like Shadow Hearts 2 barley break even.

[depascal22]

Unless a game has Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts in the title, it's not going to be a best seller. I was surprised as hell that Xenosaga got the greatest hits designation.

[Sarang01]

I highly doubt they have an anti 2D policy in place for the PSP... Generation of Chaos, Popolocrois, I think Astonshia Story is in 2D, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, Exit... the system has a good deal of 2D games, and then games that look 3D like Megaman Powered Up but play like they are in 2D. Plus, this is Namco and Capcom we're talking about... Sony dosen't really say no to them.

I just wish I knew the answer... I hope someone announces one of these RPG's at E3.

Why does some shit like Astonshia Story get the go ahead yet Tales of Eternia is left behind?

Shit?! Exsufuckingcuse me?! What the fuck is wrong with GOOD Korean game companies like Sonnori, Gravity and Softmax?! You should be happy we're finally getting Korean RPG's. Arcturus by Gravity plays like an Oldschool Isometric Action RPG game, where's the problem with that? Astonishia Story is like a SNES looking RPG. Softmax puts out Rhapsody Of Zephyr which looks like a GORGEOUS 2D RPG then you have Magna Carta: Phantom Of Avalanche.

[Grave_Addiction]

While I desperately want some more RPG goodness on my PSP, I'm thankful LoH 2 is coming our way. I'm having a lot of fun with the first one, and the lack of loading times is so refreshing.

[urzishra14]

i did play RPGs in the PSone Hayday (when Square released a new one every month for 8 months) i picked up most of them, and i can honestly say that Valkarie Profile and Suikoden 2 are definately more respected now then when they first came out (here anyways).. i was lucky enough to get a copy before the spike.. but yeah..Sony tried bringing over pretty much any RPG and most of them didn't sell all too well and i can see why they don't want to waste the resources doing that again.

[MightySlacker]

That's becauase the American audience prefers shitty wrestling games, rehashed sports games, sequels, and anything with the word extreme or the letter z on the end. We would all love to see these great RPGs released over here but there's a reason why the earlier games are so rare now. No one bought them.

FTW.

PSP RPGs have sold TERRIBLY. Ports of games already made are a risky proposition to begin with unless they are a firmly established franchise, and most RPGs aren't that golden. Remember, everyone on the interent that says OMG ITD MAKE MILLIONS is just a small, small fraction of the consumer base. Breath of Fire III and Suikoden I and II would not make a ton of money regardless what anyone says or how bad you want to play them (and if you really did want to play them so bad, you would have done it on a ps1). And seeing that the PSP is being marketed to the EXACT OPPOSITE AUDIENCE as a typical RPG fan, this RPG drought isnt likely to end.

What I find funny i half of the dickheads that clamor for these games, if Suikoden I and II was released tomorrow, would say "OMG ITS FINALLY HERE!!!! NOW HAVE TO WAIT TILL IT DROPS TO $20 OR $15 WITH GGC".

Dave

[62t]

Sadly depascal22 and MightySlacker are totally right. A game like Shadow Hearts 2, a game that some would consider the best rpg on ps2, sold very poorly. Even here there are so many people waiting to wait for a price drop on games like Tales of Legendia, Grandia 3, and Wild Arms Alter Code F. When those games cost $10-15 less than MSRP people are still waiting for it to get cheaper. In the case of Wild Arms Alter Code F, people are still waiting to see if the price will drop after it is gone from every major site. At the same time people are more than willing to get games like GTA and Halo ASAP. The only RPG people getting right away? Kingdom Hearts 2.

[HeadRusch]

That's becauase the American audience prefers shitty wrestling games, rehashed sports games, sequels, and anything with the word extreme or the letter z on the end. We would all love to see these great RPGs released over here but there's a reason why the earlier games are so rare now. No one bought them.

....so the question really is: Why did they sell so poorly over here?

Reason 1: RPG's are wholly dependent on their story to suck people in. Knights of the Old Republic is an RPG, and it sold like hotcakes. But many Japanese RPG's suffer from being...well...Japanese RPG's.

"Take the magical egg to the princess with the talking monkey who then gives you the spell of light that only works against giant mechs or growling samurai demons with giant swords who live in the giant pirate zeppelin..." etc, etc, etc.

I think the subject matter is what turns off alot of potential players. Certainly the use of SuperDeformed or overly-cute Anime-style characters puts off alot of people as well. Again, Knights of the Old Republic was an RPG that people got into..why? It touched on cultural significance here in the US. Star Wars is big. Guiding kids with swords and guns through the mountains to fight dragons just isn't......

I think a CSI-based RPG would probably sell like hotcakes ;)

Reason 2: Our country had an RPG phase. In the 80's and 90's RPG's were one of the hottest selling game genres for computers (PC's, Amiga, C64, Atari). The pawn, Bards Tale, all the ultimas, etc. All the D&D games that came out...Nintendo and SNES had their share too.

But after awhile those games grew to be repetitive..people simply got bored.

The quests became more and more ludicrous so that you couldn't figure out what to do without buying the strategy guide to basically tell you what to do, and when. That killed a ton of RPG's right there.

[62t]

HeadRusch, there is 0 Japanese RPG for Xbox in the US, so it is really hard to compare a xbox game with ps2 rpgs. at the same time KOTOR 2 and Jade Empire didnt have the same success and KOTOR 3 has been put on hold.

To counter your first point, there is Shadows Hearts. It is very different from your RPG description. There is also the SMT and Digital Devil Saga from Atlus. If you are thinking that people are interst in new ideas, the RPGs that are selling are sequels like Suikoden and Star Oceans.

As for your second point, I would expect you to say something about random encouter. However games like FF12 are trying new things to have a better battle system.

[HeadRusch]

62t, I dont think the Xbox to PS2 comparision issue is valid. After all, RPG's have never had graphics as their centerpoint unless we are talking about pre-rendered FF stuff. Raw graphical processing to me, when it comes to RPG's, is an apples to oranges comparison. I dont think it matters.

I know that what I said about Japanese RPG's being confusing or silly in their quests was a generalization, but then again so was the guy who said all Americans like are Wrestling games. But let me give an example using one you listed:

Digital Devil Saga.

Ok, I have never played this game...whats it about? What makes me want to look into it? Digital Devil Saga as a name sounds like a bad japanese-to-english translation. Is it about Devils? Is it religious?

Here is the writeup on WIKIPEDIA regarding the "story" behind Digital Devil Saga:


"The world of Digital Devil Saga first takes places in the Junkyard, a city of endless rain and smoke. You take control of the Embryon tribe leader, Serph and his comrades: Heat, Gale, Argilla, and Cielo. In this world, your only purpose is to obey the laws that were given to the tribes of Junkyard by the Karma Temple.

The laws were that those who defeat an opposing tribe will take over the remaining tribe members. The tribe who is left and has defeated all the other tribe leaders will ascend to Nirvana, a promised land. It was like an endless cycle to Serph and the others. Their purpose was to keep fighting to reach this promised paradise not even knowing what it was.

Though, Serph and the others lives start to change when they find a mysterious plant pod, and encounter the rival Vanguard tribe on the opposite side. After both sides declare to the other side that they want it removed, the pod explodes, hitting everyone in the Junkyard with a mysterious light. This light gives everyone in the junkyard the ability to change into Demons, but comes with the curse of an unsatiable hunger."



Now...as an American gamer, I wouldn't TOUCH this title. The story, to me, sounds like a million other contrived Japanese RPG's (or bad scifi/fantasy stories from the local bookstore). The mysterious plant pod that they find explodes and emits light and now they can change into demons"....hmmmm.

(And I'm sure its an absolutely brilliant game....but the title and game description are going to turn away alot of people).

One of the problems that Japanese RPG's have to face here in the United States is that their plots always sound like MAD LIBS.

Mad Libs, for the uninitiated, were (or are?) a series of books you got at school where a short story was written on a page. It was up to you to "fill in the blanks" by adding a Noun here, an Adjective there, or a Verb over there. Much Silliness would result.


EXAMPLE:
The Magical <Noun> Is suddenly <Verb> by the <adjective><noun>. Then Suddenly a Dark <noun> appears and everyone <Verb> until the <Noun> caused <Noun> to <adjective><verb>!

So your typical Japanese RPG Might have a plot that translates like so:

The Magical CASTLE is suddenly JUMPED by the BRILLIANT DOG. Then, Suddenly a Dark EGGPLANT appears and everyone IMPLODES until the AIRLINER caused DOG to WETLY HOPSCOTCH.

.....slather the whole thing with anime-graphics and short characters with gigantic eyes and boom, instant classic for the Anime/Japanese RPG fiends, and poison for pretty much everyone else.


I honestly believe its the stories that do keep people away. Not graphics, not
anything else, but I wouldn't want to play an RPG about guys with names like Gale and Cielo in a city of endless rain and smoke called Junkyard, obeying laws given to the trives by the Karma Temple. :)

On the other hand...play as a Jedi Trainee who can choose between the light and dark paths? That seems like something I'd enjoy, something I could relate to...get my head around, etc.

[ZR0 Limit]

Shit?! Exsufuckingcuse me?! What the fuck is wrong with GOOD Korean game companies like Sonnori, Gravity and Softmax?! You should be happy we're finally getting Korean RPG's. Arcturus by Gravity plays like an Oldschool Isometric Action RPG game, where's the problem with that? Astonishia Story is like a SNES looking RPG. Softmax puts out Rhapsody Of Zephyr which looks like a GORGEOUS 2D RPG then you have Magna Carta: Phantom Of Avalanche.
buy a GP32 and STFU.

you talk it up like you're the definitive korean rpg know-it-all, when in the Astonishia Story thread, you stated that you bought the game and are learning korean just to play it. after reading that i'd go out and say that you're the worst person to promote anything, and especially in a language that you probably have zero knowledge of other than a few general phrases from your korean-to-english dictionary. (na oh-jeum ma-ryuh-wuh - oh shit, i'm a korean expert, too!) there's a reason why these k-rpg's aren't coming out here and it's because no one cares about them. one look at the 6 or so screens of Astonishia Story (and the nonexistant information on it) and i don't blame them. it looks like trash and deserves to be released as a homebrew project. seriously, you're getting riled up over nothing except your own koreanphile elitism.

and nothing against HeadRusch, but that over analytical stuff is a real thread snoozer.

[zionoverfire]

How about letting the market decide who plays what instead of Sony telling developers they're not allowed to sell their product? If Capcom wants to lose money, its not Sony's problem.

Didn't Sony pull this same thing before with workingdesigns?

[Sarang01]

buy a GP32 and STFU.

you talk it up like you're the definitive korean rpg know-it-all, when in the Astonishia Story thread, you stated that you bought the game and are learning korean just to play it. after reading that i'd go out and say that you're the worst person to promote anything, and especially in a language that you probably have zero knowledge of other than a few general phrases from your korean-to-english dictionary. (na oh-jeum ma-ryuh-wuh - oh shit, i'm a korean expert, too!) there's a reason why these k-rpg's aren't coming out here and it's because no one cares about them. one look at the 6 or so screens of Astonishia Story (and the nonexistant information on it) and i don't blame them. it looks like trash and deserves to be released as a homebrew project. seriously, you're getting riled up over nothing except your own koreanphile elitism.

and nothing against HeadRusch, but that over analytical stuff is a real thread snoozer.

First off this was enhanced for the PSP. The reason why I mess with the Korean and Japanese PC RPG set is because it is what it is, more good looking Japanese RPG's to play that haven't and probably won't be ported to the American audience with two obvious reasons in mind:
1.The average American PC gamer LOVES FPS's and Online RPG's for the most part and cares for NOTHING else hence the block from getting to PC here. Seriously tell me how many copies of 1000 Swords sold for the PC over here.
2.Since above reason #1 is a problem there's the extra cost of porting said game from PC to console as WELL as translating it. Most companies like Midway and others who've picked up more niche RPG's only have to really worry about translation. On the other hand for more prominent RPG companies, albeit Old School, let's consider Nihon Falcom's stuff has barely been touched for console ports, even in Japan. Sad but true.

[depascal22]

The American public doesn't have the patience for a 50 hour game much less than spending 100+ hours that some completionists put in to a good RPG. Kingdom Hearts and KOTOR did extremely well because they aren't turn based. You can hack and slash your way and skip all the cutscenes like most of my friends like to do. It didn't hurt that they had Disney and Star Wars licenses.

[The Mana Knight]

I still think JRPGs are the best and I continue to buy most every single one on release. Do I ever regret? Around 90% of the time, I don't. I might get a few on sale at Fry's, but that's usually the cheapest I go. A big reason as to why PS2 was my favorite current generation console by far was the amount of JRPGs it had, while Xbox was probably my least favorite since JRPGs were non-existent on it.

I did hear a confirmation that it's true that Sony does require at least 30% new content in a PS1 RPG, to be released on PSP stateside. That's the reason additions were made to Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth, for it could come stateside. For the most part, I'm kind of glad they require new content, although 30% might be a little much, because the last thing I want to see is developers taking direct port of a PS1 RPG (That I already own), and selling it for $40 (although Suikoden I & II might be worth it, since it's two games). New content definitely gives me a bigger reason to buy the game and it keeps developers from being too lazy and cheap. For Breath of Fire III, I think it would have been great if anime scenes would have been added, maybe some extra mini-games, and better control. For Tales of Eternia, adding some sidequest and maybe adding some more anime sequences would be great. So, there's definitely content that can be added to games.

[The Mana Knight]

I couldn't get my post to edit, so I added another. Sorry.
the thing people have to remember is that those game sold very poorly in the US. (Eternia didnt get a Europe release) Not sure about BoF3, but Tales of Eternia and Suikoden 2 are failure in the US. Tales of Eternia did do poorly, selling worse than Tales of Destiny in the U.S., which sold pretty bad too. From what I believe, they sold around 60k. BoFIII sold 230,800, which is very good. The sales came from here (http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml), for BoFIII. That was very good, but BoFIII was the next RPG released after FFVII, so I'm thinking the success of FFVII helped the game out. I know that BoF: DQ sold extremely bad in the U.S., so that might be a reason the U.S. may never see another BoF game.

Sales wise RPG is still not very successful. Games like Tales of Legendia and Grandia are not even on top 20 selling games at the month of the release. A game like Shadow Hearts 2 barley break even.Yeah, that's true, although I believe Grandia III made the sales chart, although it wasn't too impressive. I'm glad that many publishers still are releasing RPGs stateside, even if they aren't selling too well though. Kind of a shame since it seems that all people want in the U.S. are sports and realistic action games (like FPS), two types of games I highly dislike.

[62t]

yea it looks like sony does require new content. Thats the reason why the psp version of Devil Summoner is coming. Funny thing is Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth only have 2 CG movies and some minor stuff. If they are bring suikoden 1+2 at least suikoden 1 got a new intro, the intro from the saturn version.

[The Mana Knight]

From what I've heard about Devil Summoner on PSP, the game really isn't all that great, other than the storyline, by today's standards. The game was one of the first 3-D RPGs, where the controls are very clunky when dungeon crawling, looks kind of like Persona on PS1 (possibly worse), and the game would definitely get raped by many reviewers in the U.S. Some older RPGs still stack up well, like the SNES RPGs, 2nd generation PS1 RPGs, etc. But releasing Devil Summoner on PSP probably wouldn't be a good thing. If the game was updated a little, then it would have probably been worth a U.S. release.

[ZR0 Limit]

For Breath of Fire III, I think it would have been great if anime scenes would have been added, maybe some extra mini-games, and better control.
anime cutscenes would've been nice. i'm also sure that they added some extra things for the PSP port. and i don't know what was wrong with the controls. i thought it was fine. "camera" needed a big rehaul, though (IV's camera was better, but things still obscured your view).

it was a pretty standard rpg. i'm already content with owning it on the PSone, but i'd most likely buy it if it ever came out here.

[dafoomie]

Didn't Sony pull this same thing before with workingdesigns?
Yes, it was a big reason why they went out of business. Though a bigger reason was that Vic Ireland was stubborn enough to pursue these games when Sony kept telling him no.

Not every game has to be a million seller to be profitable. WD had its niche and filled it pretty well, they were happy with their modest sales. Localization is a lot cheaper than actually making a game. I don't see why Sony felt the need to interfere with their business.

WD was notorious for their delays... Needless to say, they weren't always WD's fault. Their run ins with SCEA go back to the PS1 days, when WD tried to bring all of the Langrisser games as a boxset to PS1, rejected out of hand. They barely got Arc the Lad released here, after fighting tooth and nail for years. Ironically, they went to Sony because Bernie Stolar was putting these same policies in place on the Saturn. Well, that and he insulted them.

[Sarang01]

Yes, it was a big reason why they went out of business. Though a bigger reason was that Vic Ireland was stubborn enough to pursue these games when Sony kept telling him no.

Not every game has to be a million seller to be profitable. WD had its niche and filled it pretty well, they were happy with their modest sales. Localization is a lot cheaper than actually making a game. I don't see why Sony felt the need to interfere with their business.

WD was notorious for their delays... Needless to say, they weren't always WD's fault. Their run ins with SCEA go back to the PS1 days, when WD tried to bring all of the Langrisser games as a boxset to PS1, rejected out of hand. They barely got Arc the Lad released here, after fighting tooth and nail for years. Ironically, they went to Sony because Bernie Stolar was putting these same policies in place on the Saturn. Well, that and he insulted them.

Yeah and then oddly enough Sony saw fit to release "Twilight Of the Spirits". To be honest I genuinely resent this crap when companies like Sony poke their nose too much into this business. Does WD now piss me off with their translations? Yes but I also got back into loving Strategy RPG's after playing "Dragon Force" when "Ogre Battle" and it's Reputation Meter made me so thoroughly HATE them.

[The Mana Knight]

Yes, it was a big reason why they went out of business. Though a bigger reason was that Vic Ireland was stubborn enough to pursue these games when Sony kept telling him no.

Not every game has to be a million seller to be profitable. WD had its niche and filled it pretty well, they were happy with their modest sales. Localization is a lot cheaper than actually making a game. I don't see why Sony felt the need to interfere with their business.

WD was notorious for their delays... Needless to say, they weren't always WD's fault. Their run ins with SCEA go back to the PS1 days, when WD tried to bring all of the Langrisser games as a boxset to PS1, rejected out of hand. They barely got Arc the Lad released here, after fighting tooth and nail for years. Ironically, they went to Sony because Bernie Stolar was putting these same policies in place on the Saturn. Well, that and he insulted them.Well, I mostly put the blame of Vic Ireland for many years.

Other small publishers, like Atlus, admitted they had a few games denied by SCEA. They mentioned that all they did was find another game and got it approved. Some said that they took different approaches to SCEA, and eventually got it approved. The thing is, Vic continued to approach them incorrectly. There were times when Vic already did a translation, then tried to get SCEA to approve the game, when they wouldn't, then go around complaining everywhere. He should have tried to get the game approved before he did any translation, but he didn't. His attitude continued to piss SCEA off, that's part of the reason he could never get his games through. NIS America, Sega, Atlus, etc. had no problems releasing 2-D games on PS2 for full price, probably because they took a better approach to SCEA, causing them to accept the game. It wasn't just the approval process being a problem for Vic Ireland, SCEA has to test the game before its released. They find a bug in his game, that really should be fixed, Vic goes insane and starts complaining about SCEA, when he should have looked for all the bugs in the first place. Their other problem is that they should have supported more than one platform, like GBA (Atlus made good money from it) where they could have translated many games quickly, since GBA games are just text base. Nope, Vic just had to put all of his eggs into one basket, and that's what screwed him over too.

So basically, the blame is all on Vic himself, for WD.

[Rozz]

That's becauase the American audience prefers shitty wrestling games, rehashed sports games, sequels, and anything with the word extreme or the letter z on the end. We would all love to see these great RPGs released over here but there's a reason why the earlier games are so rare now. No one bought them.

:roll: Ever check the Japanese sales charts? They also have their fair share of horrible taste just as the American mainstream has theirs. And maybe the reason no one bought them was lack of marketing, hype, or just plain appeal. Dragon Warrior VIII is proof that you can sell a great RPG in America that wasent previously popular before on our shores with the right amount of marketing.

The Japanese sure love those crappy Dynasty Warriors sequels, even though the series has barely changed a lick since Dynasty Warriors 2 six years ago.

And was for sports, the soccer games sell terrific over there and they're not much different from each other. And wrestling is popular in Japan....

[Rozz]

I couldn't get my post to edit, so I added another. Sorry.
Tales of Eternia did do poorly, selling worse than Tales of Destiny in the U.S., which sold pretty bad too. From what I believe, they sold around 60k. BoFIII sold 230,800, which is very good. The sales came from here (http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml), for BoFIII. That was very good, but BoFIII was the next RPG released after FFVII, so I'm thinking the success of FFVII helped the game out. I know that BoF: DQ sold extremely bad in the U.S., so that might be a reason the U.S. may never see another BoF game.

Yeah, that's true, although I believe Grandia III made the sales chart, although it wasn't too impressive. I'm glad that many publishers still are releasing RPGs stateside, even if they aren't selling too well though. Kind of a shame since it seems that all people want in the U.S. are sports and realistic action games (like FPS), two types of games I highly dislike.

Tales of Symphonia was highly succesful on the Gamecube in 2004. And every region has their own tastes, one being different from another does not mean they're bad. Some idiots cant get that through their skull.

[dafoomie]

Well, I mostly put the blame of Vic Ireland for many years.

Other small publishers, like Atlus, admitted they had a few games denied by SCEA. They mentioned that all they did was find another game and got it approved. Some said that they took different approaches to SCEA, and eventually got it approved. The thing is, Vic continued to approach them incorrectly. There were times when Vic already did a translation, then tried to get SCEA to approve the game, when they wouldn't, then go around complaining everywhere. He should have tried to get the game approved before he did any translation, but he didn't. His attitude continued to piss SCEA off, that's part of the reason he could never get his games through. NIS America, Sega, Atlus, etc. had no problems releasing 2-D games on PS2 for full price, probably because they took a better approach to SCEA, causing them to accept the game. It wasn't just the approval process being a problem for Vic Ireland, SCEA has to test the game before its released. They find a bug in his game, that really should be fixed, Vic goes insane and starts complaining about SCEA, when he should have looked for all the bugs in the first place. Their other problem is that they should have supported more than one platform, like GBA (Atlus made good money from it) where they could have translated many games quickly, since GBA games are just text base. Nope, Vic just had to put all of his eggs into one basket, and that's what screwed him over too.

So basically, the blame is all on Vic himself, for WD.
I can give you examples of other, larger companies having games turned down. Many after they were already localized. You have to show them something to get something like that through. Konami has had things blocked, like Policenauts and Bomberman Kart. Capcom has had things blocked like Glass Rose, Gregory Horror Show, Namco has had things rejected like Tales of Symphonia. Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 were rejected until Nintendo was interested.

Vic Ireland not knowing how to play the bureaucratic bullshit games does not excuse Sony's role in this. What do they care if a company wants to sell a limited run of a niche title? As far as WD goes, Vic Ireland has to be held responsible for not making the right business decisions in light of that situation, thats true.

Keep it up, Sony. Alienate enough developers and I won't need to drop $600 on a PS3.

[depascal22]

:roll: Ever check the Japanese sales charts? They also have their fair share of horrible taste just as the American mainstream has theirs. And maybe the reason no one bought them was lack of marketing, hype, or just plain appeal. Dragon Warrior VIII is proof that you can sell a great RPG in America that wasent previously popular before on our shores with the right amount of marketing.

The Japanese sure love those crappy Dynasty Warriors sequels, even though the series has barely changed a lick since Dynasty Warriors 2 six years ago.

And was for sports, the soccer games sell terrific over there and they're not much different from each other. And wrestling is popular in Japan....

Wait a minute. I didn't say a single thing about the Japanese audience but you went on a long winded speech to prove me wrong? If the Japanese had the same tastes as Americans, why is the 360 dead in the water over there? Go find somewhere else to troll. Your opinion is not wanted or needed at this point.

[62t]

:roll: Ever check the Japanese sales charts? They also have their fair share of horrible taste just as the American mainstream has theirs. And maybe the reason no one bought them was lack of marketing, hype, or just plain appeal. Dragon Warrior VIII is proof that you can sell a great RPG in America that wasent previously popular before on our shores with the right amount of marketing.

The Japanese sure love those crappy Dynasty Warriors sequels, even though the series has barely changed a lick since Dynasty Warriors 2 six years ago.


The mystical dungeon series did poorly in terms of sales and review in US, but the opposite in Japan. You cant say they are bad games, just that they dont fit the taste of the average American gamer.

[dafoomie]

:roll: Ever check the Japanese sales charts? They also have their fair share of horrible taste just as the American mainstream has theirs. And maybe the reason no one bought them was lack of marketing, hype, or just plain appeal. Dragon Warrior VIII is proof that you can sell a great RPG in America that wasent previously popular before on our shores with the right amount of marketing.

The Japanese sure love those crappy Dynasty Warriors sequels, even though the series has barely changed a lick since Dynasty Warriors 2 six years ago.

And was for sports, the soccer games sell terrific over there and they're not much different from each other. And wrestling is popular in Japan....
Advertising is a big deal, most of these games aren't promoted at all. Look at Square, they heavily advertise a lot of their games, and they do pretty well. Also, there are many Western games, which by all accounts are great games, get great reviews, and they have terrible sales. Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts, Freespace... Great games with awful sales. You need more than a good product in any business, you need to be a good salesman as well. There are very few businesses where you can just put a product on a shelf with no promotion and expect it to sell.

[Rozz]

Wait a minute. I didn't say a single thing about the Japanese audience but you went on a long winded speech to prove me wrong? If the Japanese had the same tastes as Americans, why is the 360 dead in the water over there? Go find somewhere else to troll. Your opinion is not wanted or needed at this point.

How am I trolling you dick? You did compare the U.S. audience to the Japanese by saying we buy crappy games while saying that Japan has those games, singnaling their taste is really great or at least far superior to ours.

I said that the Japanese do NOT have the same tastes as Americans.

You need to comprehend things better. I just gave my two cents. Dont be an ass about things. I was not attacking you personally.

[Sarang01]

Advertising is a big deal, most of these games aren't promoted at all. Look at Square, they heavily advertise a lot of their games, and they do pretty well. Also, there are many Western games, which by all accounts are great games, get great reviews, and they have terrible sales. Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts, Freespace... Great games with awful sales. You need more than a good product in any business, you need to be a good salesman as well. There are very few businesses where you can just put a product on a shelf with no promotion and expect it to sell.

Agreed. Maybe it's because the shitty Western game companies know how to market over here, you know the one's that keep selling the same derivative bullshit and ripping off techniques others have created.
Honestly I would play almost ANY game Atlus has published over here over most Western companies.
Oh and as far as DW is concerned Americans jump on that derivative game as much as the Japanese so don't go throwing stones there you can't. Same with Harvest Moon, just less consumers. Seriously the Maddenities eat the shit of DW up.
Fooms and SCEA deserves to be slapped publically considering the amounts of sigs. on that petition to get Policenauts here.
Also can someone explain Sega's idiocy here? There's a ripe spot for them to launch Sakura Taisen 1 and 2 over here for PSP with the small library of games the PSP has here currently. They're missing a golden opportunity for PSP owners willing to try anything new, key word new. If I were Sega I'd market the shit out of it, hire EA's marketers and show mainly the battle footage and let it sell itself. As much as I hate EA for how they fuck up companies and screw their workers out of rightful pay they can market quite well. They could sell shit and make it seem like Ambrosia.

[dracula]

The American public doesn't have the patience for a 50 hour game much less than spending 100+ hours that some completionists put in to a good RPG. Kingdom Hearts and KOTOR did extremely well because they aren't turn based.


kotor is most definitely turn based. So it kotor 2.

[ZR0 Limit]

Also can someone explain Sega's idiocy here? There's a ripe spot for them to launch Sakura Taisen 1 and 2 over here for PSP with the small library of games the PSP has here currently. They're missing a golden opportunity for PSP owners willing to try anything new, key word new.
wrong. it's only a ripe spot for you because you're a $$$$$$-chan. the only people that would buy a Sakura Taisen game are $$$$$$-chans and that doesn't mean it's going to be a guaranteed seller even if they had EA's marketing department. it's not idiotic by any means. they're choosing what's best suited for each market and, to them, Sakura Taisen isn't something that'd sell well over here. of course, you're some kind of expert with your asian language-to-english dictionary degree, so what do they know, right?

and if PSP owners are willing to try anything new, then why are most of you waiting for price drops on these games? maybe you should rephrase your sentence to, "PSP owners willing to try anything new... but only if it's cheap, because they can't afford to try anything new". they don't bring games out just so they can wait for it to drop in price. if that were the case, they'd price them accordingly from the start. seriously, this isn't a golden opportunity for them. it's a bigger risk especially for such a niche title that no one cares about except for the anime convention crowd.

again, stfu and buy imports only. your moon language elitism is retarded and up there with anything slidecage posts.

[dafoomie]

wrong. it's only a ripe spot for you because you're a $$$$$$-chan. the only people that would buy a Sakura Taisen game are $$$$$$-chans and that doesn't mean it's going to be a guaranteed seller even if they had EA's marketing department. it's not idiotic by any means. they're choosing what's best suited for each market and, to them, Sakura Taisen isn't something that'd sell well over here. of course, you're some kind of expert with your asian language-to-english dictionary degree, so what do they know, right?

and if PSP owners are willing to try anything new, then why are most of you waiting for price drops on these games? maybe you should rephrase your sentence to, "PSP owners willing to try anything new... but only if it's cheap, because they can't afford to try anything new". they don't bring games out just so they can wait for it to drop in price. if that were the case, they'd price them accordingly from the start. seriously, this isn't a golden opportunity for them. it's a bigger risk especially for such a niche title that no one cares about except for the anime convention crowd.

again, stfu and buy imports only. your moon language elitism is retarded and up there with anything slidecage posts.
Sega took a lot of criticism for not bringing Sakura Taisen over during the Saturn days. A lot. Theres still a lot of people that are bitter to this day about it. It would have sold OK at the time, enough to offset the cost of localization, especially considering that their better sellers were RPG's. I don't think it would be profitable today, they'd have to port it to the PSP and localize it. If the localization were already done in the Saturn days, I could see it.

I don't see what the hostility is about. There is a market for niche titles, not a big enough market to support a full blown 20 million dollar development on its own, but enough where localization could be profitable. WD did it for years, their going out of business had very little to do with sales. Atlus does pretty well.

[ZR0 Limit]

I don't see what the hostility is about. There is a market for niche titles, not a big enough market to support a full blown 20 million dollar development on its own, but enough where localization could be profitable. WD did it for years, their going out of business had very little to do with sales. Atlus does pretty well.
i don't disagree with there still being a market for niche titles (or any of what you said, really). i'm all for it. but have you read the things Sarang posts? korea this, japan that... it's really annoying to read. again, i'm all for some of these import only games to come out here, but i'm not going to rant and rave about it like it's the be all, end all of gaming, or about how this company is stupid and such and such because they didn't bring out Doki Doki Su No Desu Love Panda Idoru Deluxe ~Summer-Winter Friends of Hearts Beating!~ when there's supposedly a golden opportunity in it.

all i'm saying is that he's getting way overexcited about things and needs to tone it down a notch. no one needs to constantly read about the greatness of the east and how we should have emperors and dynasties back in full effect. you like these games and companies? great. just don't shove it down our throats every chance you get. really, the anti-western stuff is a bit much.

[Sarang01]

i don't disagree with there still being a market for niche titles (or any of what you said, really). i'm all for it. but have you read the things Sarang posts? korea this, japan that... it's really annoying to read. again, i'm all for some of these import only games to come out here, but i'm not going to rant and rave about it like it's the be all, end all of gaming, or about how this company is stupid and such and such because they didn't bring out Doki Doki Su No Desu Love Panda Idoru Deluxe ~Summer-Winter Friends of Hearts Beating!~ when there's supposedly a golden opportunity in it.

all i'm saying is that he's getting way overexcited about things and needs to tone it down a notch. no one needs to constantly read about the greatness of the east and how we should have emperors and dynasties back in full effect. you like these games and companies? great. just don't shove it down our throats every chance you get. really, the anti-western stuff is a bit much.

Did you even read where I mentioned where there are good one's? I myself am a big fan of the Adventure genre and Japanese developers hardly EVER do that style, Konami with Shadow Of Destiny being one exception.
Let me rephrase for ST then. BECAUSE there is such a small collection of RPG's on the PSP over here I do think Sega has an opportunity to sell it here to a greater market than they would if RPG's were more plentiful on it and there IS some money to be made in that respect.
Oh and for people sometimes arguing against video games being at a loss, one gaming company did it knowing and admitting to it. RE2 for the 64, why they decided to take a loss I have no idea.

[depascal22]

kotor is most definitely turn based. So it kotor 2.

KOTOR has the option to be played in real time. You can press the white button to pause the action and issue commands but it's not required. The fact that you can play the same game with both styles is a testament to the programmers and bolsters the fact that this game is a true classic from this generation of games.

[epobirs]

It shouldn't come as a big suprisie that if SCEA is offered two titles in a poor selling genre, it's going to pick the one that hasn't already been seen by us on another Sony platform. So many PSP owners are or were PS1 and PS2 owners that ports can suffer a severe penalty to their already marginal sales if the consumers already bought the game previously. Especially in a genre where repeat playability tends low.

Is Sony playing favorites? You betcha. They and anybody else in this business remember what happened when platform owning companies wouldn't or couldn't control what products were shipping for their platforms, which is what happened to Atari, Coleco, and Mattel.

The biggest profit for a dollar spent by Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo is the publication of strong selling third party games. If a third party publisher orders a million units on a title whose approval process only cost Sony around $25K, this is a stunning profit margin. So, it's pretty understandable that Sony is going to favor the titles that can bring in the big numbers, or even just decent numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Some low sellers may be approved if they're viewed as bringing prestige to the platform but discretion has to be exercised.

This is driven by the limited shelf space at the major retailers who command Sony's attention. A Wal-mart or Target is only going to handle a certain number of titles at any given time. The places that carry a far larger selection don't necessarily do more business since so much of their selection is older stock that has been discounted and may never earn out, nevermind turn a real profit for its publisher. The PSP cabinet at a Wal-mart might have 50 items that are considered current, with the rest being discounted aging items and Greatest Hits, plus a few long term monster items like a GTA.

Sony naturally wants every one of those slots to be given over to a game that sells in the millions but in real life must settle for less. But not too much less. A game that cannot be expected to move more than 100K units in the NA market across all retail outlets often isn't worth stocking for a place like Target. Each store would only need 3-6 units for the title's entire life cycle and many of those stores won't sell a single one until it's heavily discounted. A cagey buyer might review past statistics and only send very small quantities of the game to a small subset of the chain where such items have been better received in the past. He might decide the entire state of Iowa can get it from Amazon if all four of the guys who care want it that badly.

The decisions of those Wal-mart and Target buyers can make or break what games get approved for the US market. It isn't a censorship thing, just whether it can be sold in enough quantity to be worth the trouble. In turn, Sony is infuenced by the knowledge of how much more expense goes into supporting an RPG port for the far lesser royalty bucks it brings in.

Those of us here aren't very representative of the market the business guys need to serve. If we were there would be publishers fighting tooth and nail for the US rights to various Japanese RPGs.

As it stands, retail sales of games control Sony's thinking on what titles to approve. They might become more wide ranging in their choices if they could consign some titles to only be sold by alternative outlets like Amazon where display space is effectively unlimited but so far they don't have that level of control or consider it worth their effort. It would still come down to a person on their staff pulling down a salary either being assigned as third party liason to a low seller or a far better seller, if not a major hit. Which assignment is going to get Sony the best return for its investment in that guy's salary is an unavoidable consideration. You can bet that plenty of those staffers have their own pet titles they'd love to midwife into the US market if the cost could be justified.

I was at Fry's yesterday to get one of those $50 AR 2GB Memory Stick Duo Pros and saw a bunch of their imports for the PSP. Every one that really interested me (or wasn't already scheduled for US release) was also impossible to play without a command of written Japanese. It's frustrating but Sony isn't in this business to make me happy at very little profit.

[62t]

KOTOR has the option to be played in real time. You can press the white button to pause the action and issue commands but it's not required. The fact that you can play the same game with both styles is a testament to the programmers and bolsters the fact that this game is a true classic from this generation of games.
it is not. Try playing Jade Empire for a a "real" real time experience.

[fujishig]

The PSP version of Ys is also a port (for the most part).

Hmm... this is a good point, and seems to fly in the face of the 30% rule. X-Men Legends 2, though it did add a couple of characters, also seems to break the 30% rule, unless that rule only applies to 2D games.

Ironically, X-Men Legends 2 is one of my favorite games on the PSP because it's almost an exact port.

[Kain Vincent]

Perhaps Sony's plan is to watch how VP does and act from there. If VP has good sales, Sony could see that RPG's are a good investment for the PSP. Still, don't hold your breath over it...

[The Mana Knight]

Hmm... this is a good point, and seems to fly in the face of the 30% rule. X-Men Legends 2, though it did add a couple of characters, also seems to break the 30% rule, unless that rule only applies to 2D games.

Ironically, X-Men Legends 2 is one of my favorite games on the PSP because it's almost an exact port.The 30% rule applies for PS1 and Saturn ports. PS2, and any other current generation console port is okay, because their graphical capabilities are similar to the PSP. Part of the reason SCEA does this is they want people to see the PSP is superior to the DS graphically, because PS1 ports will hurt it. If developers spend the time to make new content, then it's allowed.

[Roufuss]

The 30% rule applies for PS1 and Saturn ports. PS2, and any other current generation console port is okay, because their graphical capabilities are similar to the PSP. Part of the reason SCEA does this is they want people to see the PSP is superior to the DS graphically, because PS1 ports will hurt it. If developers spend the time to make new content, then it's allowed.

You know what's hilarious is that the majority of games that were straight PS2 ---> PSP ports are plagued by serious loading times and are what gives the system a horrible rap.

WWE Smackdown 2006
Midnight Club 3
Ys
X-Men Legends 2 (though I still enjoy it, extra characters and missions make it worth it)

Just to name a few.

[The Mana Knight]

That is one of the problems, due to the slow UMD loading. I've seen a few PSP have very little loading, while others have a lot. Personally, I think the reason is the games being optimized for PS2, and not PSP. I'm not really sure how loading times are minimized, since I'm not a game developer, but I believe there's probably a completely different trick to doing it on PSP versus the PS2.

Btw, a little off topic, but I noticed you downsizing your collection also, since I remember it being over 1000 games.;) I hope to have that same amount, some time.:)

[Roufuss]

That is one of the problems, due to the slow UMD loading. I've seen a few PSP have very little loading, while others have a lot. Personally, I think the reason is the games being optimized for PS2, and not PSP. I'm not really sure how loading times are minimized, since I'm not a game developer, but I believe there's probably a completely different trick to doing it on PSP versus the PS2.

Btw, a little off topic, but I noticed you downsizing your collection also, since I remember it being over 1000 games.;) I hope to have that same amount, some time.:)

The majority of the PSP games I own now have very low loading times, and you're right, it's just a matter of them cramming a bunch of PS2 code onto the PSP, without really optimizing it. I tend to avoid the straight PS2 ports for this very reason.

It dosen't help that games like Smackdown 2006 had huge loading times even on PS2, also ;)

[62t]

The 30% rule applies for PS1 and Saturn ports. PS2, and any other current generation console port is okay, because their graphical capabilities are similar to the PSP. Part of the reason SCEA does this is they want people to see the PSP is superior to the DS graphically, because PS1 ports will hurt it. If developers spend the time to make new content, then it's allowed.
the 30% rule is still a joke. Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth has maybe 5% new material, or 10% if you are really pushing it. There are not that many new cutscenes.

[Kain Vincent]

The 30% rule applies for PS1 and Saturn ports. PS2, and any other current generation console port is okay, because their graphical capabilities are similar to the PSP. Part of the reason SCEA does this is they want people to see the PSP is superior to the DS graphically, because PS1 ports will hurt it. If developers spend the time to make new content, then it's allowed.

IIRC, Valkyrie Profile only has two new cutscenes for the PSP version. Outside of that, I heard nothing else has been added.

Sony is just going by the fact RPGs are not a major seller for the PSP (at least in the American market), yet ironically doesn't give them much of a chance to prove otherwise.

[Sarang01]

The majority of the PSP games I own now have very low loading times, and you're right, it's just a matter of them cramming a bunch of PS2 code onto the PSP, without really optimizing it. I tend to avoid the straight PS2 ports for this very reason.

It dosen't help that games like Smackdown 2006 had huge loading times even on PS2, also ;)

Yeah I've even seen this with PS ports which is ridiculous. BoF3 has FAR more than it should as well as Princess Crown which is a Saturn port.
Considering the disc size AND the power behind the PSP over the PS neither of these games should pose any real problem in terms of next to no load time.

[The Mana Knight]

Yeah I've even seen this with PS ports which is ridiculous. BoF3 has FAR more than it should as well as Princess Crown which is a Saturn port.
Considering the disc size AND the power behind the PSP over the PS neither of these games should pose any real problem in terms of next to no load time.I just think the problem is that many developers just do a straight port, and don't even bother fixing the loading, like they should. ToE had next to no loading, on PSP, so that shows it can be elimated, only if the developer wants to.

[Roufuss]

This is what was changed in Suikoden 1 + 2:



* The player is now able to move their character diagonally.
* Experience gains have been changed, it seems to have been reduced if others in the party are too high.
* Certain character portraits have been changed.
* The Suikoden 1 opening movie is now the one from the Sega Saturn version.
* Graphics (as well as the movies) have been redone to fit widescreen and the graphics have been slightly enhanced.



That sounds like 30% to me, espically since they enhanced the graphics, changed some character portraits, and added the Saturn intro movie. That's about as much as what was added into VP: Lenneth.

Dammit Konami, release this somewhere other than Japan!!!

[The Mana Knight]

Hmm, now I'm really curious as to whether the game was denied or if Konami decided to pass the game up completely.

Seriously, I wish I could have a camera watching, the person who approves 3rd party games, to see what they actually do. IMO, me, Roufuss, and a few others here should be in charge at SCEA, of what third party games can be released. ;)

[Roufuss]

Hmm, now I'm really curious as to whether the game was denied or if Konami decided to pass the game up completely.

Seriously, I wish I could have a camera watching, the person who approves 3rd party games, to see what they actually do. IMO, me, Roufuss, and a few others here should be in charge at SCEA, of what third party games can be released. ;)

I don't think any PSP role playing game released has averaged above a 73% review average, and that 73% belongs to Kingdom of Paradise, and it's the only PSP RPG to break the 70% mark... all the rest are 50% - 60% according to Gamerankings. Valkyrie Profile seems to be the only game on track to not being a failure to the critics (I enjoyed most of the PSP RPG's, for what its worth).

I know people have argued that games like Tales of Eternia didn't sell well when it was on the PS One, but now it's a cult classic when back then, it was nothing, same with Valkyrie Profile. These horrible reviews really should make Sony re-evaluate their policy about only sticking with "new to the US" games and franchises, because all it's doing is giving the PSP a bad name to fans of the genre.

Valkyrie Profile should be the first game to get favorable reviews, and I can guarantee it will do higher numbers then any of the "original" IP's brought out over here yet... maybe this will awaken someone and say "Hm, let's bring over the rest of the RPG favorites that are already translated!".

At that point I will no longer care (except for Suikoden 1 + 2) because I think I'm gonna bite the bullet after I sell VP and just import. It just seems silly to keep releasing these bombs while keeping the good stuff abroad. If anything, I'd just keep garbage like Astonshia Story in Japan, the game must have sold, what, 1,000 in the US if that?

Screw it, I just found a brand new Tales of Eternia for $39.99 on Ebay with $5 shipping, the same cost of something like Legend of Heroes 2 or Astonshia Story... I just bought it, I'm psyched, first time I've seen it under $50.

[The Mana Knight]

If anything, I'd just keep garbage like Astonshia Story in Japan, the game must have sold, what, 1,000 in the US if that?Actually, Astonshia story is a Korean RPG, and it's just now about to be released in Japan.;)

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you, because I'll probably be doing more importing. But, I am a tad unsure whether I'd buy many RPGs for PSP, like I did for PS1 and PS2, mostly because my RPGs suit a console best, although my PSP games do really well, so who knows.

[epobirs]

That is one of the problems, due to the slow UMD loading. I've seen a few PSP have very little loading, while others have a lot. Personally, I think the reason is the games being optimized for PS2, and not PSP. I'm not really sure how loading times are minimized, since I'm not a game developer, but I believe there's probably a completely different trick to doing it on PSP versus the PS2.

Btw, a little off topic, but I noticed you downsizing your collection also, since I remember it being over 1000 games.;) I hope to have that same amount, some time.:)

Yeah, but a lot of these are PS1 ports and despite having 8 times more memory (plus frame buffer that the PS1 didn't have) to use they tend to have almost the exact same loading behavior as those original versions. It's just plain laziness in porting. They try to treat the PSP as a PS1 as much as possible, to the extent that the game code thinks it only has 4 megabytes to run in. On a lot of these games, if they were given proper consideration during the port, there would one long load in the beginning and then only rarely and mostly for things like FMV and one-time voiceover sequences.

[Sarang01]

Actually, Astonshia story is a Korean RPG, and it's just now about to be released in Japan.;)

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you, because I'll probably be doing more importing. But, I am a tad unsure whether I'd buy many RPGs for PSP, like I did for PS1 and PS2, mostly because my RPGs suit a console best, although my PSP games do really well, so who knows.

I've been importing most of my shit already and the ONLY reason I haven't imported some games is finding out they're coming to the U.S. and are cheaper and the translation is negligible, Gradius Portable $25 case in point. Ace in the hole here. ;-)
I already own Suikoden 1 and 2, Princess Crown, Devil Summoner, Astonishia Story, Tales Of Eternia EU, Breath Of Fire EU which is a TERRIBLE port btw in terms of loading, DJ Max Portable and soon to get Talkman.
Oh yeah and I also own Generation Of Chaos US. Can someone explain to me why the some of the imports disc art is so shitty or looks identical to the EU stuff? I swear BoF3, ToE and the Princess Crown discs look the same almost.
Oh yeah and Princess Crown is another shitty port, WAY too much load time for what it is. The game is interesting, I just hate the load time.
Oh and on the tip of BoF3 Capcom could've added some little graphical enhancements and it wouldn't of killed them.

[The Mana Knight]

I've been importing most of my shit already and the ONLY reason I haven't imported some games is finding out they're coming to the U.S. and are cheaper and the translation is negligible, Gradius Portable $25 case in point. Ace in the hole here. ;-)
I already own Suikoden 1 and 2, Princess Crown, Devil Summoner, Astonishia Story, Tales Of Eternia EU, Breath Of Fire EU which is a TERRIBLE port btw in terms of loading, DJ Max Portable and soon to get Talkman.
Oh yeah and I also own Generation Of Chaos US. Can someone explain to me why the some of the imports disc art is so shitty or looks identical to the EU stuff? I swear BoF3, ToE and the Princess Crown discs look the same almost.
Oh yeah and Princess Crown is another shitty port, WAY too much load time for what it is. The game is interesting, I just hate the load time.
Oh and on the tip of BoF3 Capcom could've added some little graphical enhancements and it wouldn't of killed them.I wish Capcom just completely remade Breath of Fire III for PSP (like MMPU and MMMHX), because the game definitely could have used some improvements IMO (being an early PS1 game). I'd love to see Breath of Fire IV brought to PSP, with enchancements to the camera (Positioning it in four directions was bad).

[Sarang01]

I don't think it needs THAT radical a touch up, just a big polishing to the 3D background, besides I hate the redo that Capcom did with PU. I think Capcom still could've given people a choice when putting such a radical art style in place and so homebrew.
edit: Btw this is for you to pm but damn don't you wish Capcom had given the same treatment to RE2 on the Cube as they did to #1? Both Nemesis and #2 could've used that polish.

[omegaweapon7]

DS got it much worse, heck the only rpg on it is Lunar and..hmm...er....wait, THATS IT.

[gundamxzero]

Both the tales of phantasia

and

tales of the world:

http://pspupdates.qj.net/Tales-of-The-World-PSP-Screenshots/pg/49/aid/56783

are going to be released for the PSP.

http://pspupdates.qj.net/New-Tales-Information/pg/49/aid/56414


Blade dancer also looks somewhat promising.

[Sarang01]

Are we just talking a graphical remake of Phantasia or what gundam?

[Roufuss]

Are we just talking a graphical remake of Phantasia or what gundam?

A huge graphical remake, and I think they added voices as well. Leaps and bounds over the GBA port.

[Sarang01]

Hopefully it's not as bad as the one's everyone seem to complain about in the Brit version of ToE.
Is it going to be true in translation too or what? I don't want any coddled U.S. crap where they downplay it to get an E or T.

[Roufuss]

Hopefully it's not as bad as the one's everyone seem to complain about in the Brit version of ToE.
Is it going to be true in translation too or what? I don't want any coddled U.S. crap where they downplay it to get an E or T.

Don't worry, we'll probably have to import it from Europe anyways ;)

[Sarang01]

slams SCEA's head on table. For you Roufuss. gives Roufuss a quick bow.

[Chacrana]

Hopefully it's not as bad as the one's everyone seem to complain about in the Brit version of ToE.
Is it going to be true in translation too or what? I don't want any coddled U.S. crap where they downplay it to get an E or T.

What was wrong with the British version? The voices were crap but you can turn them off from the get-go so...

[The Mana Knight]

Well, it looks like PSP might be getting a decent RPG, because of Famitsu's review of Brave Story on PSP, developed by Game Republic.

- Brave Story: Shintanaru Ryojin (Sony): 8, 8, 8, 9 - (33/40)
Link (http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm)

Images (http://www.rpgamer.com/games/bravestory/bravestorypsp/screens/bravestorypspss051806b.html). The turn-based looking RPG, that's not cel-shaded, is the PSP one.

[62t]

the UK psp tales of eternia has the same voice and translation as the us psone tales of destiny II.

As for Phantasia it is a port of the PSOne version with more stuff.

As for Brave Story, sony has only released kingdom of paradise. They needed others to release popolocrois and blade dancer. Hopefully the 3d graphics will help it get a us release.

[The Mana Knight]

From what I'm now hearing, there are more great original RPGs for PSP, that are staying in Japan only, where no publisher is picking them up. It seems as though the PSP market might be too small for the support, unfortunately.

From what I hear (and seen), there are games like Kouji Okada's Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner, Marvelous' Innocent Life: Shin Bokujou Monogatari, Konami's Twelve, which have stayed Japan only.

The videos to Brave Story (http://media.psp.ign.com/media/815/815521/vids_1.html): A New Traveler, looks pretty good too, but I doubt the game will come stateside. From what I hear, the PSP Brave Story is pretty good, while the PS2 and DS one are mediocre.