Sony says lack of GTA4 exclusivity won't matter in war

[basketkase543]

In a recent interview with The Street site, Sony America co-COO Jack Tretton says that the lack of GTA4 exclusivity isn't a big deal and that it only helped to sell "some units."

"Q: So are you saying that not having an exclusive on Grand Theft Auto doesn't hurt you at all?
A: No, I don't think it hurts us. No, I really don't."

In a piece titled, "Sony's Playing to Win," financially focused site The Street talks with Sony's co-Chief Operating Officer of Sony Computer Entertainment America, Jack Tretton about the PS3's upcoming battle with the Xbox 360 and Nintendo's Wii.

In the piece, Tretton discusses the diminished importance of third-party exclusives in this console cycle, as part of a discussion on Sony's loss or decision (the world may never know) to not have Grand Theft Auto 4 exclusively in 2007.

"There's no question that having the Grand Theft Auto franchise helped us a lot and helped us sell some units, but I don't think the battle would be any different with or without Grand Theft Auto.

If you look at our first-party library and the franchises that we've brought to market over the course of PlayStation 2, we have a very formidable first-party library of exclusive software that will help define us."

"The days of locking up exclusive content from a third party and having that be key to your strategy is really a dangerous road to go down because I think with the cost of development, not many developers can afford to do exclusivity. So, really what defines the uniqueness of a platform from a software standpoint are the offerings that you have from first party."

Tretton seems to be pointing at Sony's big library of first-party exclusives, as the source of Sony's future success but right now those first-party launch stables are filled with unproven horses like Resistance: Fall of Man and Warhawk (eventually we'll see PS3 versions of Gran Turismo, Ratchet & Clank and God of War, too). When asked about having a foil to Microsoft's Halo 3, Tretton responds by saying that the library of Sony Computer Entertainment has outsold Halo because Halo "was the one and only title to come out there. So, do we have a title? I don't know."

Tretton continues, "I guess I'd have to look at the numbers on Grand Turismo vs. the numbers on Halo. But I can guarantee you that Sony Computer Entertainment's first-party software far and away outsold Microsoft's first-party software."


I personally think that Sony needs all the ground they can get since Microsoft's head start has proven more beneficial more them than many people that it would be. Granted the GTA license isn't as vital for them now that they have God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc., but having exclusive rights to GTA4 still would have had a great impact on their sales.

[62t]

well Liberty City Stories hasnt make a huge difference.

[basketkase543]

But Liberty City Stories isn't a wholly original game; it's only an expansion pack to a 4 year old game. If Rockstar really stepped up with GTA4 and presented that presented a logical evolution of the series, maintained at LEAST 30 fps, and had some incredible graphics, then they will have another HUGE hit on their hands.

[Roufuss]

GTA hasn't been "exclusive" in years, and Rockstar would be stupid to sign an exclusitivity clause, because they like $$$.

Sure, maybe one of those 6 month exclusive clauses would have helped, but probably not in the long run.

[terribledeli]

Unless the PS3 version of the game is miles better than the 360, of course its going to hurt them. Cheaper console + exclusive downloadable content = more sales.

You know if Sony had another one of their contracts, they'd be beboping all over the place touting GTA4's exclusivity. But they don't. Instead, they just downplay it despite knowing that millions bought a PS2 specifically for the GTA series.

[Dr Mario Kart]

His statement regarding high development costs making console exclusivity more risky seems fair.

[Murcielago77]

GTA4 being exclusive on ps3, even for 6 months, would have gotten them even more demand for ps3s

[zewone]

Don't believe his propaganda. It definately matters.

[whoknows]

It may not have made a big difference, but Sony is acting like they dont need anything to be 1st again...I myself am going to buy a PS3 regardless since I dont like GTA, but still, something like that would have probably helped.

[TimPV3]

But Liberty City Stories isn't a wholly original game; it's only an expansion pack to a 4 year old game.Have you played it? I found it nothing like an expansion pack, the only similarity was the city. Infact, comparing LCS with III is like comparing Madden 06 with 02. It looks and plays the same, but it's totally different.

[Daddy]

His statement regarding high development costs making console exclusivity more risky seems fair.


Ive been saying that for months

[Genocidal]

And what are you expecting Sony to say? "Geez guys, we don't have exclusivity on a franchise that helped us move millions of systems to the casual gamer, and along with other recent snafus we aren't in as good of a position as we really wish we could be."? Come on now.

[basketkase543]

It may not have made a big difference, but Sony is acting like they dont need anything to be 1st again.


I think this may be the root of the problem. This is just one of many comments this year that shows Sony's total arrogance in regards to how they are essentially guaranteed to become number no matter what. There's been quotes like "people will pay anything to own a ps3" to Sony CEO David Reeves saying "The first 5 million [consumers] are going to buy [the ps3]...even if it didn't have games" (EGM #205).

While nobody expects them to openly lament the loss of GTA4 exclusivity (even if it was for a few months), they still need to be careful with, what looks like they consider to be, their bulletproof vest.

[CosmosTheMouse]

Wasnt it only going to be 360 exclusive for a year... and then released on the PS3?

[Ivanhoe]

In a recent interview with The Street site, Sony America co-COO Jack Tretton says that the lack of GTA4 exclusivity isn't a big deal and that it only helped to sell "some units."




I personally think that Sony needs all the ground they can get since Microsoft's head start has proven more beneficial more them than many people that it would be. Granted the GTA license isn't as vital for them now that they have God of War, Ratchet and Clank, etc., but having exclusive rights to GTA4 still would have had a great impact on their sales.


360 hasnt done that great. Maybe if they were somehow able to sell tons of units in japan then there 1 year head start would of been worth it.
But instead it has been just an average year and pathetic in japan. I would of much prefered microsoft to wait and include hddvd inside the 360 and only put there games on it . but that probably wouldnt of mattered in japan either.

Expect the wii to fly off shelfs simply because parents will be buying it due to its price for their kids. in usa and japn

Expect ps3's to fly off the shelfs simply because its the new gen playstation and hardcore gamers will buy them all up . in usa and japan.


As for the GTA being on both systems.
it DOES matter. Im sure im not the only one who knows friends who bought xboxes just to play HALO and HALO 2.


Year 2 for new consoles is what really matters and HALO 3 should be arriving soon enough to help the 360 sell more units.

[rabbitt]

People are going to be thinking 'Do I want to spend $600 + another $60 for GTA4, or do I want to spend $400 + another $60 for GTA4?'

It's not something you run through your head twice.

[Tha Xecutioner]

I think it honestly does, especially after seeing the hype just after some fake picture of GTA4 popped up today.

[stag8603]

People are going to be thinking 'Do I want to spend $600 + another $60 for GTA4, or do I want to spend $400 + another $60 for GTA4?'

It's not something you run through your head twice.

exactly

[itspaidgasterblaster]

Even if they lose GTAIV they still are by far a more varied console than xbox 360. I have the 360 and while quite a few games are being hailed as outstanding they have been about the same two genres the orginial xbox excelled on. Racing and FPS, the price of the ps3 is steep I agree, but if i already bought the hdtv, the sorround sound and all the expensive cables (which i got really cheap) the PS3 is a given.

[basketkase543]

It would throw EVERYONE off if Nintendo actually got GTA4 exclusive to them :D

[wbc1228]

I'm pretty sure Sony is jealous that the Xbox version will be avaliable before the PS3 version.
I'm sure Sony would be bragging day and night about it if they did indeed have exclusive rights to it.

[sarausagi]

Well, I know a big precentage of PS2 gamers don't play GTA..I know I don't

but I know I'll be there for Gran Turismo HD, FFXIII, MGS4, and the games you know are coming

Region free gaming [finally, import PS2/PSOne games, weird Japanese games that would never be ported]
Soul Calibur 4
Tekken ?
Xeno----?
Games from Konami
First releases of Bemani games
Loads of CAPCOM games
SNK games
Atlus games
ViIRTUA FIGHTER 5
Squaresoft games [imagine a Parasite Eve remake or sequel?]
New SONY first party projects

Plus backwards compatibility, PSP functionality, BluRay, full online support

The PS3 will be an -incredible- console and will still be number one, anyone who doesn't want to see it can take their Wiimote and..

Of course, if Nintendo release Rez on Wii and a vibrating Wiimote, then as a girl, count me in!

Besides, the more I watch the PS3 conference, I love the ego and arrogance that it shows, very business like, very Japanese. They don't even try to hide the price, they don't try to hide that like PS2 the launch line up will be slow. And they just have it written all over their face, "We don't need to show a playable FFVII or drop the price to $200 to be number one, we ARE number one"

[Genocidal]

Besides, the more I watch the PS3 conference, I love the ego and arrogance that it shows, very business like, very Japanese. They don't even try to hide the price, they don't try to hide that like PS2 the launch line up will be slow. And they just have it written all over their face, "We don't need to show a playable FFVII or drop the price to $200 to be number one, we ARE number one"

I think Nintendo tried that a couple generations back with the Nintendo 64. I don't claim to be well studied in history, but I seem to recall it not turning out so well for them.

[sarausagi]

I think Nintendo tried that a couple generations back with the Nintendo 64. I don't claim to be well studied in history, but I seem to recall it not turning out so well for them.

I realize that, but the big difference is Nintendo 64 had the Playstation and to a lesser extent the Saturn staring it down in the face.

The PSX had Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Tekken, Crash Bandicoot, Ridge Racer, and Final Fantasy VII. The Saturn had Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter 2, Panzer Dragoon, and Nights Into Dreams.

Xbox 360 has Halo and Wii has, umm, Wii, oh wait, Zelda!

Even Mario 64, Zelda Ocarina of Time, and Goldeneye combined couldn't stop PSX, and I guarantee you Mario 64, Zelda OOT, and Goldeneye are 10x the game anything Wii or 360 has right now.

[Genocidal]

:roll: Right. I could use the exact same argument that you just used, only with current gen systems and games.

[sarausagi]

:roll: Right. I could use the exact same argument that you just used, only with current gen systems and games.

Problem is neither system is out and so far there is not one killer app for any system. Halo 3 is not a killer app, the people who will buy it are the players of the first two, anyone who hasn't played the first two stands no chance of competing against 1/2 players of today, and if the individual already had an interest in Halo, they could easily get an Xbox and halo 1 and 2 for under $100.

And so far, I don't see how anyone seriously believes Smash Brothers Brawl and Zelda TP can sell consoles, the people that want them don't need to be SOLD a console, they're already buying one. Plus, the people Nintendo wants to bring into gaming, aren't attached to Zelda, less likely Snake or Samus. Zero suit and Solid are FANSERVICE.

A game like MGS4 or Gran Turismo HD can sell consoles though, if some average mainstream 20 something walks by and sees a gorgeous HD image of Snake snapping someone's neck or he sees a Skyline taking a curve at 100 with full effects, he'll turn his head "that looks fucking sweet" , that's the mainstream. A video game virgin like a 40 year old woman could say the same thing, "Wow, they make them look almost like they're real now" and might just tell her husband, "I saw this game at the store and it looked better than a movie"

Seeing Snake come out of a card board box and act all Japanese to a sparring Mario and Zelda, or seeing Mario bounce around in a field of stars in no way has the ability to do the same thing. A 50 year old man might stop to play a round of pacman, that's as far as it goes

[Genocidal]

If you think that MGS4 and Gran Turismo are system sellers, but Zelda, Smash Bros, and Halo aren't, I think it's pointless to try and debate with you because of your obvious and extreme bias favoring Sony.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Most of the RPG makers are smaller companies that dont need flashy graphics. They still have a heavy upcoming lineup on the PS2.

They're not ready to make the switchover yet, and it has yet to be seen exactly where they will go. They are anxious to find out what the marketshare looks like also. The smaller companies especially are well aware of the ballooning development costs, that shall play a role as well.

No company is infallible. No one is guaranteed any position in the race (well, I think whoever loses $4B first should be guaranteed 2nd).

As far as I understand, Atlus announcments at E3 consisted of the following:
3 GBA releases
2 DS releases
2 PS2 releases.

[sarausagi]

Most of the RPG makers are smaller companies that dont need flashy graphics. They still have a heavy upcoming lineup on the PS2.

They're not ready to make the switchover yet, and it has yet to be seen exactly where they will go. They are anxious to find out what the marketshare looks like also. The smaller companies especially are well aware of the ballooning development costs, that shall play a role as well.

No company is infallible. No one is guaranteed any position in the race (well, I think whoever loses $4B first should be guaranteed 2nd).

Are you for real about never getting an HDTV? Off topic, I know, but considerng in about 5 years, a nice basic tube based HDTV or at least an ED LCD will be around $200 - $300..I don't see why even the most cheap, stubborn people wouldn't switch..plus the fact that around 2012 analog disappears completely..

I wouldn't say Square-Enix, Namco, Konami are small developers though..considering that Square-Enix owns Gamearts and Tri-Ace...I'd say the only developers left are Nippon Ichi and From..and they're getting much bigger too.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I can replace the TV I'm using now for $25-50 on Craiglist. I'm the exact opposite extreme of a graphics whore. I do not believe that a sharper/better image in any way improves my gaming experience.

I intend to hold to that just as NIS has vowed to keep on using low-res 2d sprites regardless of what the industry as a whole does.

[graf1k]

"The days of locking up exclusive content from a third party and having that be key to your strategy is really a dangerous road to go down because I think with the cost of development, not many developers can afford to do exclusivity. So, really what defines the uniqueness of a platform from a software standpoint are the offerings that you have from first party."

That is absolutely true. Unfortunately for Sony....

If you look at our first-party library and the franchises that we've brought to market over the course of PlayStation 2, we have a very formidable first-party library of exclusive software that will help define us."

...that is absolutely false. I mean seriously, what does Sony have as far as first party games? Gran Turismo and God of War, the latter I'm willing to bet sold like shit in Japan. Face it, first party wise Sony is lagging WAY behind Microsoft who in turn is lagging behind Nintendo. If Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest never went Sony exclusive, there never would have been a PS2, much less a PS3. Sony is not getting by on first parties, nor will it ever. And baby, if Square Enix went multiplatform with all their games, the PS3 would tank inside of 2 years.

[sarausagi]

I can replace the TV I'm using now for $25-50 on Craiglist. I'm am the exact opposite extreme of a graphics whore. I do not believe that a sharper/better image in any way improves my gaming experience.

I intend to hold to that just as NIS has vowed to keep on using low-res 2d sprites regardless of what the industry as a whole does.

Hmm, wow, that amazes me. At least tell me, what kind of TV you have? Brand and size? Do you have it calibrated properly at least?

I know I would be perfectly happy with something like a Sony or a Panasonic, 20 to 27 inches, with good cables and the right settings, most consoles should look as good as an HDTV would...especially non progressive/HD material

[Dr Mario Kart]

Calibrating TVs? What?

I actually dont have a tv of my own at the moment. I'm using this thing that my roomate has had for years. I think its about 20" or so. Bell-Howell brand.

Maybe it will blow your mind even more that I'm using composite RCA yellow video. Not S-video.

[sarausagi]

Calibrating TVs? What?

I actually dont have a tv of my own at the moment. I'm using this thing that my roomate has had for years. I think its about 20" or so. Bell-Howell brand.

Maybe it will blow your mind even more that I'm using composite RCA yellow video. Not S-video.

Wow, you're the ultimate CAG = )

No, but seriously, Bell-Howell doesn't make TV's anymore but they like GE made some really decent sets back in the early 90's. I have a GE 19 inch in the garage which has some great color seperation even on regular coax cable.

It doesn't blow me away that you use composite instead of S-VIDEO. I truly don't see that much of a difference between composite and s-video like I do with composite versus component, text might be a little more clear with S-VIDEO though, and if you have the input [which you might] then it might not be such a bad idea to spend the $5 and get a cheap used s-video cable for PS2 or whatever console you have

But you don't have a TV at the moment, one that belongs to you, I guess to each their own, some people don't even get near a TV at all, they'd much rather read a book or go see a Truffaut film at the local university

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

as for TV calibration, I mean stuff like brightness, contrast, color, etc, a few tweaks can make an old set look new

[Dr Mario Kart]

oh I've got a S-video input alright, and I can certainly afford the $5 cable. The point is that it doesnt matter to me.

When I say that graphics and resolutions dont matter, I mean it very seriously.

Back on topic, regarding exclusives:

I've been saying for a long time now that even multiplatform games will be so different on Wii that they are practically exclusive. This will be a strength for however many or few multiplatform games reach to that system.

[Tromack]

His statement regarding high development costs making console exclusivity more risky seems fair.

Except of course for the cheapo Wii. That thing screams low dev costs.

[sarausagi]

oh I've got a S-video input alright, and I can certainly afford the $5 cable. The point is that it doesnt matter to me.

When I say that graphics and resolutions dont matter, I mean it very seriously.

Back on topic, regarding exclusives:

I've been saying for a long time now that even multiplatform games will be so different on Wii that they are practically exclusive. This will be a strength for however many or few multiplatform games reach to that system.

Well, nice discussing with you, I'm not trying to pick a fight and I do respect your decisions, however: I sincerely think if you were to sit down with Eternal Darkness or Radiata Stories or even something like Navy Seals, and you played it in widescreen with progressive scan, that you would notice it does compliment and enhance the experience of the game. If you ever have the chance, please give it a shot, I know I started playing games a lot more [about 6-8 games per year] when I got an HDTV as opposed to when I just had a 20 inch set and my monitor, and just played 1 or 2 games a year.

This is a general message to anyone who dismissed enhanced displays and graphics as meaningless. The same way a good game engine or control scheme can wrap you up in the game, so can the visuals. I'm not sending everyone to buy a $1000 TV and $50 cables, I am saying though, that if you enjoy video games, and can afford it, the experience can be augmented from just a game to a complete escape just by getting a TV and setting it up right. When a display becomes a window to another world, that's when it goes beyond "Technology" and becomes "life"

[argyle]

That is absolutely true. Unfortunately for Sony....



...that is absolutely false. I mean seriously, what does Sony have as far as first party games? Gran Turismo and God of War, the latter I'm willing to bet sold like shit in Japan. Face it, first party wise Sony is lagging WAY behind Microsoft who in turn is lagging behind Nintendo. If Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest never went Sony exclusive, there never would have been a PS2, much less a PS3. Sony is not getting by on first parties, nor will it ever. And baby, if Square Enix went multiplatform with all their games, the PS3 would tank inside of 2 years.


You...you actually believe MS' first-party lineup is better than Sony's?? Seriously? Wow...

Yea, Sony has Gran Turismo & God of War...as well as:

Jak
Twisted Metal
SOCOM
Ratchet & Clank
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Hot Shots Golf
Sly
Killzone
Dark Cloud
Ape Escape
Arc the Lad
Wild Arms
Genji
Syphon Filter
Warhawk

...I'm sure I'm forgetting others. And this isn't even mentioning all the new first-party franchises they've announced for the PS3. How can MS' first party possibly compare with that?

To the topic at hand, would Sony have sold more systems if GTA4 was timed-exclusive like the others have been? Probably. But I agree with the quote, it's not going to decide the fight. Multi-platform games never will, and GTA has always been multi-platform. People decide which console to buy based on what exclusives are available & upcoming.

I've looked for an excuse to buy a 360, but IMO the exclusives that interest me just aren't there, and I don't see them on the way.

[graf1k]

You...you actually believe MS' first-party lineup is better than Sony's?? Seriously? Wow...

Yea, Sony has Gran Turismo & God of War...as well as:

Jak
Twisted Metal
SOCOM
Ratchet & Clank
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Hot Shots Golf
Sly
Killzone
Dark Cloud
Ape Escape
Arc the Lad
Wild Arms
Genji
Syphon Filter
Warhawk

...I'm sure I'm forgetting others. And this isn't even mentioning all the new first-party franchises they've announced for the PS3. How can MS' first party possibly compare with that?

To the topic at hand, would Sony have sold more systems if GTA4 was timed-exclusive like the others have been? Probably. But I agree with the quote, it's not going to decide the fight. Multi-platform games never will, and GTA has always been multi-platform. People decide which console to buy based on what exclusives are available & upcoming.

I've looked for an excuse to buy a 360, but IMO the exclusives that interest me just aren't there, and I don't see them on the way.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion, but in my personal opinion 90% of those franchises you listed suck uncontrollably. Not to mention quite a hefty number of those are only Published by Sony and not actually developed by Sony (Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad, Wild Arms). But for the sake of an even arguement, let's include second party games. Microsoft has:

Halo
Perfect Dark
Fable
Jade Empire
Black & White
Forza
Project Gotham Racing
Gears of War
Mass Effect
Age of Empires (although I guess you can discount that one since it hasn't been on Xbox or 360 yet)
Nintey Nine Nights

I would say quality wise, the still beat out Sony's first parties, but that's just me.

As to what you said about exclusives, I completely agree. But exclusives and first party games are two completely different things. Like I said, if Square Enix ever went back to Nintendo or said "Hey guess what, Final Fantasy XIII & Versus XIII & Dragon Quest IX are all going to be on 360 too!" Sony would be in deep, deep shit. Luckily for them, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen anytime soon.

[sarausagi]

Maybe it's a difference of opinion, but in my personal opinion 90% of those franchises you listed suck uncontrollably. Not to mention quite a hefty number of those are only Published by Sony and not actually developed by Sony (Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad, Wild Arms). But for the sake of an even arguement, let's include second party games. Microsoft has:

Halo
Perfect Dark
Fable
Jade Empire
Black & White
Forza
Project Gotham Racing
Gears of War
Mass Effect
Age of Empires (although I guess you can discount that one since it hasn't been on Xbox or 360 yet)
Nintey Nine Nights

I would say quality wise, the still beat out Sony's first parties, but that's just me.

As to what you said about exclusives, I completely agree. But exclusives and first party games are two completely different things. Like I said, if Square Enix ever went back to Nintendo or said "Hey guess what, Final Fantasy XIII & Versus XIII & Dragon Quest IX are all going to be on 360 too!" Sony would be in deep, deep shit. Luckily for them, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen anytime soon.

Your list

4: FPS [one available on PC]
2: MMO
2: SIM [both available on PC]
2: RACING
1: ACTION

His list

5: Platforming
3: RPG
2: SPORTS
2: ACTION
2: FPS

His list, all exclusive, not available on any other console

[sarausagi]

Maybe it's a difference of opinion, but in my personal opinion 90% of those franchises you listed suck uncontrollably. Not to mention quite a hefty number of those are only Published by Sony and not actually developed by Sony (Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad, Wild Arms). But for the sake of an even arguement, let's include second party games. Microsoft has:

Halo
Perfect Dark
Fable
Jade Empire
Black & White
Forza
Project Gotham Racing
Gears of War
Mass Effect
Age of Empires (although I guess you can discount that one since it hasn't been on Xbox or 360 yet)
Nintey Nine Nights

I would say quality wise, the still beat out Sony's first parties, but that's just me.

As to what you said about exclusives, I completely agree. But exclusives and first party games are two completely different things. Like I said, if Square Enix ever went back to Nintendo or said "Hey guess what, Final Fantasy XIII & Versus XIII & Dragon Quest IX are all going to be on 360 too!" Sony would be in deep, deep shit. Luckily for them, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen anytime soon.

But I will confess, that I agree

If Square-Enix, Namco, Capcom, etc suddenly said, "We're jumping ship, hello 360" or decided to give the Wii a shot, I'd change consoles too. Pretty much, I want -Japanese- games, whoever gets those games, that's the console I buy, and for the past ten years, the PSOne [and lesser exteny, Sega] and PSTwo have been my go to consoles: the only console I'd say has more of the games I like besides PS2/PSX is GBA/DS, because it's mostly a few excellent first party games and hundreds of excellent third party games from Japan

[AFStealth]

I'm pretty sure Sony is jealous that the Xbox version will be avaliable before the PS3 version.
I'm sure Sony would be bragging day and night about it if they did indeed have exclusive rights to it.

I'm pretty sure you're full of shit, considering GTA4 gets a simultaneous release.

[graf1k]

Your list

4: FPS [one available on PC]
2: MMO
2: SIM [both available on PC]
2: RACING
1: ACTION

His list

5: Platforming
3: RPG
2: SPORTS
2: ACTION
2: FPS

His list, all exclusive, not available on any other console

Right but considering Halo multiplatform is a joke. Halo came out on PC like 2-3 years later and Halo 2 isn't even out on PC yet is it? I mean, it's a complete after thought on PC. I will give you Black & White though. I'm assuming the MMO is Fable and Jade Empire although last time I checked they aren't MMOs.

I guess to boil my point down to the basics is that a lot of people that have bought an Xbox or 360 have bought it for first party game franchises. Very few people on the other hand buy a PS2 for first party games. Sure, they have some good ones but for the most part they aren't system sellers.

[wbc1228]

I'm pretty sure you're full of shit, considering GTA4 gets a simultaneous release.

so, i made a mistake in my assumption.
you could of just kindly pointed out my mistake instead of being a jackass.

[argyle]

Right but considering Halo multiplatform is a joke. Halo came out on PC like 2-3 years later and Halo 2 isn't even out on PC yet is it? I mean, it's a complete after thought on PC. I will give you Black & White though. I'm assuming the MMO is Fable and Jade Empire although last time I checked they aren't MMOs.

I guess to boil my point down to the basics is that a lot of people that have bought an Xbox or 360 have bought it for first party game franchises. Very few people on the other hand buy a PS2 for first party games. Sure, they have some good ones but for the most part they aren't system sellers.


Well, it could be argued that is because there are more 3rd-party exclusives on the PS2 than there are on the Xbox/360. Most of the Xbox/360 exclusives are first-party, and again, most people buy games based on exclusives - so yea, that's probably true.

That said, personally the only first-party exclusive (I have a gaming PC, so B&W, Fable, and a few others don't count for me) MS titles I really enjoyed were Crimson Skies & the 2 rally games (can't remember their names). I'm just really not a fan of most of MS' games, and imo the Sony first-party games are far superior. It's all opinion, of course, and I recognize that MS' games obviously have their audience. But I don't think that audience is anywhere near as big as it is for Sony's 1st-party lineup.

[David85]

I think it's just the normal... Sony is talking out of their ass again. Nothing new.

[vinhjdao]

If you think that MGS4 and Gran Turismo are system sellers, but Zelda, Smash Bros, and Halo aren't, I think it's pointless to try and debate with you because of your obvious and extreme bias favoring Sony.

Seriously, what is he smoking :lol:

MGS4 looks incredible, but to say that is a mainstream killer-app and Zelda IS NOT reeks of extreme bias. And Gran Turismo HD? The "mainstream" will look at GT HD, be wowed by the graphics, and then look at Forza or Gotham and be wowed by the graphics. The difference? The mainstream will approach that $200/$400 pricetag much more easily than the $600 one.

Your list

4: FPS [one available on PC]
2: MMO
2: SIM [both available on PC]
2: RACING
1: ACTION

His list

5: Platforming
3: RPG
2: SPORTS
2: ACTION
2: FPS

His list, all exclusive, not available on any other console

How in the world does Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad and Wild Arms fall under RPG in your list and Mass Effect, Fable and Jade Empire...don't?

[crystalklear64]

I agree with Sony, its not going to matter.

[sarausagi]

Seriously, what is he smoking :lol:

MGS4 looks incredible, but to say that is a mainstream killer-app and Zelda IS NOT reeks of extreme bias. And Gran Turismo HD? The "mainstream" will look at GT HD, be wowed by the graphics, and then look at Forza or Gotham and be wowed by the graphics. The difference? The mainstream will approach that $200/$400 pricetag much more easily than the $600 one.



How in the world does Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad and Wild Arms fall under RPG in your list and Mass Effect, Fable and Jade Empire...don't?


Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad, and Wild Arms all have stories, likable characters, and excellent audio/visual presentations.

Calling Jade Empire, Fable, or Mass Effect RPG's is like calling X-Men Legends 2 and The Sims RPG's.

A bias would be anyone trying to deny that the X-Box is quite possibly the worse console for any serious fan of RPG's. Even the Gamecube has the Tales series, Skies of Arcadia Legends, the Fire Emblem series, plus Harvest Moon, Zelda and the Paper Mario games.

[sarausagi]

Seriously, what is he smoking :lol:

MGS4 looks incredible, but to say that is a mainstream killer-app and Zelda IS NOT reeks of extreme bias. And Gran Turismo HD? The "mainstream" will look at GT HD, be wowed by the graphics, and then look at Forza or Gotham and be wowed by the graphics. The difference? The mainstream will approach that $200/$400 pricetag much more easily than the $600 one.


I agree that Forza and Gotham have the same effect. However, Zelda can not and can not sell consoles. The people who WANT Zelda already plan on buying a Wii, the people who want Zelda already have Zelda and a Wii paid for in full at Gamestop.

[Genocidal]

A bias would also be considering J-RPGs to be the only kind of RPGs, which it appears you just did.

I agree that Forza and Gotham have the same effect. However, Zelda can not and can not sell consoles. The people who WANT Zelda already plan on buying a Wii, the people who want Zelda already have Zelda and a Wii paid for in full at Gamestop. Wait.. so you're telling me that people who want Zelda have preordered it and a Wii (even though Wii hasn't been made available for preorder, but for argument's sake let's say it has)... so how does Zelda not sell systems again? :-k

[PINKO]

The 360 one will have exclusive downloadable content

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/0615-nowaitingforgta4.htm

[zewone]

The 360 one will have exclusive downloadable content

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/0615-nowaitingforgta4.htm
Awesome.

[Mattte]

I agree that Forza and Gotham have the same effect. However, Zelda can not and can not sell consoles. The people who WANT Zelda already plan on buying a Wii, the people who want Zelda already have Zelda and a Wii paid for in full at Gamestop.
So how does that make MGS4 any different?

They both basically have the same following

[sarausagi]

So how does that make MGS4 any different?

They both basically have the same following

The fact that many people got into Metal Gear by SOLID 2 and even SOLID 3

most Zelda fans came in from the SNES or NES

Even though there was a MGS on NES

and even Gameboy

I haven't heard of hundreds of people who got into Zelda via Wind Waker

[vinhjdao]

The fact that many people got into Metal Gear by SOLID 2 and even SOLID 3

most Zelda fans came in from the SNES or NES

Even though there was a MGS on NES

and even Gameboy

I haven't heard of hundreds of people who got into Zelda via Wind Waker

How did people get into MGS2 or MGS3? I assume either:

a) Snake shot someone in the head and they said, "Cool! I want to do that!"
b) Word of mouth from current fans

Wheras Zelda would end up with:

a) Link chops someone in half and tehy said, "Cool! I want to do that (with my Wiimote)!
b) Word of mouth...from current fans

I really don't understand where you're coming from with your other point. If I compared sales with Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past (SNES) to Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) and saw a 2x jump in sale...where did all those extra sales come from? Did the current NES->SNES->N64 crowd just LIKE ZELDA SO MUCH that they bought 2 copies: one for when they're home and one for when they're at work so that they could lovingly caress that their extra cartridge?

For the record, Zelda sales:

Link to the Past (SNES): 2.46 million units in the US, 4.61 million units worldwide
Ocarina of Time (N64): 4.08 million units in the US, 7.6 million units worldwide
Wind Waker (GC): 2.41 million units in the US, 4.32 million units worldwide

But Metal Gear? Well Metal Gear Solid has been experiencing a slow decline in the US:

MGS: 2.81 million units in the US, 5.51 million units worldwide
MGS2: 2.32 million units in the US, 5.59 million units worldwide
MGS3: 1.28 million units in the US, 3.75 million units worldwide

I guess you're right, more 'new blood' has a chance of coming in for MGS because there are less people overall that are already into the series in the first place :lol:

As for Dark Cloud and Arc the Lad having "stories, likable characters, and excellent audio/visual presentations" and Mass Effect and Jade Empire does not... well I'll just leave it at that because it's pretty clear at this point that RPG = JRPG and nothing else for you.

[Mattte]

The fact that many people got into Metal Gear by SOLID 2 and even SOLID 3

most Zelda fans came in from the SNES or NES

Even though there was a MGS on NES

and even Gameboy

I haven't heard of hundreds of people who got into Zelda via Wind Waker

What fact? I don't know a single person that likes MGS and didn't start with the PS1 version.

They are both the same, they are series. Thats how a game series works, the first game installs the fanbase and then the sequals keep that fanbase and make it larger by word of mouth or whatever.

Twilight Princess (as well as SSBB)is going to sell systems, Metal Gear Solid 4 is going to sell systems, and Halo 3 is going to sell a bunch of systems probably more than the other two.

[whoknows]

The fact that many people got into Metal Gear by SOLID 2 and even SOLID 3

most Zelda fans came in from the SNES or NES

Even though there was a MGS on NES

and even Gameboy

I haven't heard of hundreds of people who got into Zelda via Wind Waker
I disagree about your Zelda statement I think many people got into it via Ocarina of Time. Everyone I know started with Ocarina of Time and then slowly started playing a few of the other ones.

[sarausagi]

I disagree about your Zelda statement I think many people got into it via Ocarina of Time. Everyone I know started with Ocarina of Time and then slowly started playing a few of the other ones.

I guess it's different everywhere you go, everyone I know who -loves- Zelda started out with a Link to the Past and Zelda [NES] if they're older...

I know a few little kids who also played Link to the Past on Gameboy before anything else.

[zewone]

It all depends on your age (what game you started with).

[Roufuss]

Dark Cloud, Arc the Lad, and Wild Arms all have stories, likable characters, and excellent audio/visual presentations.

Calling Jade Empire, Fable, or Mass Effect RPG's is like calling X-Men Legends 2 and The Sims RPG's.

A bias would be anyone trying to deny that the X-Box is quite possibly the worse console for any serious fan of RPG's. Even the Gamecube has the Tales series, Skies of Arcadia Legends, the Fire Emblem series, plus Harvest Moon, Zelda and the Paper Mario games.

Actually, games like Jade Empire and Fable are more RPG's then something like Dark Cloud / Wild Arms. J-RPG's are generally very linear... the story-line is laid out for you, your actions have no impact on the plot unless they were meant to, there are some that are different but for the most part you're not really playing a role, you're playing a story.

RPG's over here, such as Fable or KOTOR (I didn't play Jade Empire) see you dictating the story. You're leading it along with your own actions, be they good or evil, and the story is adapting to what you do to it. You really are playing an actual role in these games, a persona that you're building yourself, not a pre-determined person.

I like J-RPG's as much as the next person but american RPG's are just as good.

[crystalklear64]

What fact? I don't know a single person that likes MGS and didn't start with the PS1 version.

Now you do. I started at MGS:2 and thought it was awesome. Then I got 3 and was sad to see Raiden as a mask :(

[akilshohen]

it's so much bias in this topic