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Go Back   Cheap Ass Gamer > Blogs > The Full Dopa > Behind the scenes in the practice of medicine (#1) post-mortem
dopa345's Avatar

Behind the scenes in the practice of medicine (#1) post-mortem

By dopa345 06-26-2011 10:14 PM
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This post is a follow-up on the last two posts in this topic. I've been busy with real-life issues (let's just say, I have a ton of material for future blog entries). You can access the prior two posts, with the original here and the follow-up here. In short, the situation involved a real-life case of a patient I accepted as a transfer from other hospital for a question of seizures. After an brief hospitalization and tests, I determined that the seizures were likely psychological. Medicare, 3 months after the fact, retrospectively denied payment after determining that I could have treated the patient as an outpatient and did not need to admit the patient to the hospital. I solicited input from readers to see what other thought about this situation.

Hobotalk and Pck21, among others commented about the inherent absurdity that payment was denied in large part because of the end diagnosis. However, the end diagnosis could not have been made without the appropriate investigations and if the patient truly had seizures, it would have been malpractice to delay the work-up as an outpatient, putting herself at risk. It seems unfair to hold that against health care providers.

Others, like Avidwriter commented on the cost. The amount in question was $8,000. I should also add that the cost is considerably more than that since the hospital was reimbursed some amount (I do not know how much but considering similar cases, I would estimate around $2,000 or so). To him/her, this amount seems excessive for a inpatient hospital stay. The other question should be then, what would a "reasonable" total cost for a patient like this? The labor provided (nursing, physicians, technologists) is highly skilled. The are costs of equipment and also capacity to provide life-saving care at a moment's notice to consider. Administrative costs in running a hospital are also quite high as full-time people are required just to navigate the maze of red tape just to submit claims and get paid. Also each patient is a potential lawsuit, adding malpractice costs. Thus the overhead in medical care is enormous and discerning the true cost of care provided is extremely difficult. However, I agree we should be able to do better than over $2,000/day for a relatively simple case like this.

BluewingX was first to hit upon the issue that I find the most irksome, that this came over 3 months after the fact. This highlights the inefficient bureaucracy of the whole system (it takes weeks, if not months for hospitals to get paid for services rendered, even if there is no hang up over the costs). I don't think there is any other service industry where the customer can come in, demand service and get to pay for it 3 months later without any penalty, unless they unilaterally decide after the fact not to pay. It's like going into a restaurant, ordering an expensive meal and having up to 3 months to decide whether to pay or not. I also think this delay is deliberate since the more time that elapses, the less I will remember and the less I'll be inclined to go through the effort to appeal.

zshipp defended the insurance company, arguing that if the standard of care was not met, then they should be in their rights not to pay. I agree that a pure "fee-for-service" arrangement easily could lead to over-testing and waste. However, I take issue that these companies can play Monday morning quarterback and question my clinical judgment in this case (which by the way, their guidelines are NOT based on true medical guidelines, I was clearing following standard of care in this situation). I should not have to bear all the risk (medicolegal if I send her home "to save money" leading to a bad outcome and the financial risk that I can get stiffed after deciding to admit her to the hospital. If the insurers are going to have hand in the clinical decision making (which I do not want by the way), they they also need to bear some of this risk. Otherwise, stay the hell out of my way. I have to say, if you're a medical student, believe me, I think you will change your tune once to enter the clinical side of things and see more of this first hand.

Fortunately, in the end, everything worked out as described in the second post. For those that expressed doubt on whether I made the whole thing up, I assure you that the entire case and sequence of events are real. The conversation was not verbatim of course and I admit to some literary license but the overall content was completely real. However, if you don't believe it, nothing I can do about it and I don't care anyway.

Thanks for reading.

Next up: Prior authorization hell, where doctors don't decide what medicine to prescribe, the insurance company does.

 Comments (Total Comments: 4)  

continuegaming's Avatar
truly awesome post... thanks for spending the time to share.

having worked with the administrative side of health care, and seeing how things are progressing politically i'm greatly troubled by what is going on with healthcare.

whenever i hear someone point out how "inefficient" healthcare is, and how they want to legislate it and "cut waste", the only thing i can think of is that "well now the doctors are gonna get more screwed, and the quality of care is going to suffer". in general, i think the following edict is true:

Quote:
the efficiency of health care is inversely proportional to the quality of the care provided.
...here is an example of efficient care:
in the basic training when you get immunizations, they line you up like cattle, you roll up both sleeves and two people carrying immunzation airguns walk down the line tatooing each person. (they inject immunizations into your arms with high pressure air... think "no country for old men air gun... no needles). this is efficiency at its finest... well, at least until someone passes out while getting a shot and they cut a 5 inch gash in their upper arm.

the problem is, the health care providers never incur cuts, they just pass the buck down to the doctors, which in turn are negatively incentivized to give people thorough and good care. (i am not trying to demonize doctors here, i'm just saying we patients have to rely on a doctor's altruism to receive good care, knowing the doctor is incentivized give you the most expedient diagnosis possible.)

if we do anything, to try to fix the system we need to fix the Health Insurance providers, (or get rid of them). set up a system where they are incentivized to give the best possible care, not incentivized to take peoples money and give them the worst care (or no care).

My 2 cents.
lionheart4life's Avatar
Agree totally with the post above. For everyone out there who thinks healthcare is too expensive now or that providers are overpaid, watch how drastically quality drops if the providers lose incentives and the government steps in and tries to run the show.

This applies to all aspects of health care. I am personally stressed filling 30 prescriptions an hour, the majority of which are hardly bringing in any money. Do you know how unsafe that is to be filling that quickly yet this is already happening at virtually every pharmacy out there and reimbursements from private, state, and federal payors are continually dropping. However at least for the most part the pharmacy is actually paid albeit they also have to wait months and deal with BS audits where insurers look for technicalities to try to recoup their money.

Next time you feel like your doctor isn't making enough time for you keep in mind that he might have to see a patient every 15-20 minutes to pay his rent, staff, and 8+ years of training to help you. The whole hospital situation would be shocking to the average public if they had any clue. Obviously we know who should be defining the standard of care: practitioners based on the best available evidence, but insurers try even with their clear financial stake.

I can't imagine any other industries where you are mandated to provide a service knowing that you will not be paid, or may even lose money to do so, but such is Medicaid.
Hobotalk's Avatar
I am certainly biased (being the only healthcare system I have experienced), but the NHS works pretty well. It definitely has it's flaws but doctors are typically able to provide the best and most appropriate investigations and treatments for their patients.

Although, like many others, I fear what is going to happen to the NHS in the next few years as spending and budget cuts get pushed through parliment (the government) to try and save money.
dopa345's Avatar
Some nice thoughts. Thanks for the comments!

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