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Go Back   Cheap Ass Gamer > Blogs > KingHippp0's Blog > Why OnLive won't work (even if it does work).
KingHippp0's Avatar

Why OnLive won't work (even if it does work).

By KingHippp0 04-10-2009 04:01 PM
Updated by KingHippp0 04-11-2009 05:01 PM (iPhone debunking, data per hour cost)
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So even if the OnLive system "works", the client sends controller input to the server which in turn sends the video output back to the client, I don't think it's going to take off. The promise of never upgrading my computer's video card is not that much of an incentive, and here is why.

First, the system is subscription based, and they haven't released pricing which means I'll have to make some assumptions. These assumptions could be dead wrong but I think they're all reasonable.

Let's say the service is comparable to Xbox live for 8 bucks a month. (8 per month). I'm basing this on the reviews which mention a subscription charge, but do not mention a set price (source Shacknews)

Now you have to buy or rent a game. These aren't included in the service they cost additional monies. Again they have been nebulous about pricing, but I'll wager that it's going to be a little cheaper on their server than retail so let's say it's 30 bucks for a game that would usually cost 50.
($30 + 8 per month.)

You're also having to pay for Internet. Right now there's a huge uproar about TimeWarner's Cable Internet pricing. Hulu and other streaming services are threatening the traditional cable TV model, and the Cable companies are responding by threatening higher internet prices. Onlive doesn't really say anything about how many Kbps or Mbps their streaming service will need to function properly (Edit : it's 350 MB per hour HD, 950 MB per hour HD source: Kotaku), but there is a relationship between how long you spend gaming OnLive and how many Gigabytes per month will be steamed. I'm going to go on the higher end of things and add a 40 GB per month data package for 54.90 per month (source : Gamers with Jobs)

($30 per game + 8 per month + 54.90 per month)

They haven't said how much the "inexpensive" microconsole will be, but I'll wager it's around 30-50 dollars, or included with the service agreement (like a cable modem). Let's just say 30 for now.

($30 per game + $30 for microconsole + $8 per month + $54.90 per month)

So already, on month one, I've spent a about $120 bucks on getting everything up and running, and I'll have an additional 63 dollars per month in connection charges. If I do happen to go over 40 GB in a month, that's an extra $2 per gig. So over the a year the price could be (63 x 12 =) $756. Granted, I'm already spending a bunch on Internet anyway, but I don't use anywhere near the amount of bandwidth that this service requires.



AND! If I ever decide to cancel the OnLive Service my console gets bricked and I probably lose access to my games. What is the microconsole worth to me if it doesn't connect to the cloud? It's like the iPhone, as long as you're paying the subscription fee it's awesome, the second you stop, it's a paperweight (edit: thanks Aihuman for debunking this!). And what about all the Games? Much like the iPhone, I doubt there will be any way to use these applications on anything but the OnLive service. To be fair, they haven't said anything about letting people download physical copies of the game... but again, how the heck is Joe User supposed to play Crysis on a netbook or macbook?

Compare this to the PC I bought from Dell this year. 3 Ghz DuoCore, 3 GB Ram, and a big hard drive for 300 dollars, which I upgraded with a 99 dollar GT9800 video card (400 dollars total). Every game I buy on it will run on it, even if I lose my job, or internet connection, just like my Xbox or DS or Wii.

Here's the other thing.... in 12 months, I could pay another 100 bucks to upgrade the video card on the PC and play newer games. So if the cost of this service is to avoid upgrading your PC every year, I don't think it's a valid argument at all.

5 things that they would have to explain before I jumped on board would be.

1) Do I own a license to play the game on OnLive, or a license to play it on any PC? Can I download a backup to a CD or DVD?

2) How many Kbps/Mbps will the streaming video require. How much data throughput can I expect per month, or at least per hour of play.

3) Why am I paying more per month to get less ownership of the media I purchase? What good is it to have a cheaper console if it increases my data costs?

4) How is this service, which is Broadband based, going to entice people who don't plug their consoles into the Internet, or don't have the ability to do so.

5) Wouldn't the data have to move at the speed of light, almost instantaneously for the service to behave like the Xbox? How many milliseconds of latency are in between my xbox controller and video output because the best case scenario for a ping on the internet is 30-100 ms.

There is a definite benefit to this service, and it would be very impressive to have video games behave like on demand television. However, I think at this point, the costs outweigh the benefits in a huge way. That has not stopped me from signing up for the beta, as I'm very interested in how this plays in the real world with variable connetion speeds, and not just on the GDC controlled environment.

-

Jonpaul is a blogger and podcaster at the media critic site NerdAlertNerdAlert.com . He still has NES Carts from the 80s that work fine without a monthly fee.

 Comments (Total Comments: 10)  

distgfx's Avatar
Bah, everything I had originally complained about you mentioned, carry on.
ItsMeMark's Avatar
I'd say the bulk of this argument is wrong.

If you don't have Internet, don't buy it. Simple. People without Internet are just not the target audience. The majority of gamers interested in something like Onlive already have high speed Internet connections.

I do agree that they need to keep the requirements for smooth play under DSL speeds if they want to hit the main market.
I disagree that this review added cost of Internet to the fee for Onlive, that's just double dipping the cost. Also, Time Warner is not the only company that offers high speed Internet but if that's the only company in the area, they were going to pay that fee whether or not Onlive was for sale anyway.

As for fees, I see it going one of two ways. 1) They will charge a large monthly fee but players will be allowed to play anything in their server library for free. 2) They will charge a minimal fee and offer renting with the option of buying the game hard copy, maybe they will charge a little more to keep the digital copy.

As for the other concerns, I will admit they will have quite a bit to prove and explain. There is a huge possibility of failure lurking around. That doesn't mean it should be prematurely shot down because of Internet bills. Drop out that $50 a month gamers would have paid anyway and it becomes a pretty sweet deal.
h3llbring3r's Avatar
I agree with most of your arguments, except for the comparison of the $8 per month for XBL. I always laugh whenever someone posts that figure. Anyone who pays $8 for individual months of XBL is TSTL.
i_bent_my_wookie's Avatar
Latency will be the key issue with OnLive and it's success/failure. It wont take very many people in a metropolitan area all trying to access the same server and stream extremely large amounts of data faster to make this crash.
I hope it does work but I am thinking that we are still 5-10 years away for this to be a serious consideration.
Does anybody here remember the Phantom Game System that was supposed to revolutionize video games?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_(game_system
aihuman's Avatar
"What is the microconsole worth to me if it doesn't connect to the cloud? It's like the iPhone, as long as you're paying the subscription fee it's awesome, the second you stop, it's a paperweight."
You still have Wifi connection,music player,video player,camera, calendar,game platform and other expanded functions with the Iphone.You only lose the phone part.
The latency issue is surely the biggest issue for Onlive. However Perlman believes they can overcome it. Let's wait until they launch later this year and see what happens then. Jason - OnliveFans.com - The Unofficial Onlive Forum
Thomas96's Avatar
Using Onlive, how will people use custom soundtracks...
KingHippp0's Avatar
Thanks everybody for responding.

@ItsmeMark - It's hard to say, I would be buying broadband anyway, but based on the new Time Warner pricing, I could get 1 GB for 15 bucks (source: kotaku), so if the difference were 15 bucks for a 1GB or 54 bucks for 60 GB (they changed that cap as well recently) I still think theres a significant data fee in using the system. I agree with the "one large fee for everything, one small fee for access" but I still think the problem is how you lose your content once you're unsubscribed from the service. In that light, I would rather have the large monthly fee, but again, why don't I just put that fee towards a cheap PC? Also, I think you're right, that the majority of people interested in the Onlive service will already have Internet Connections, but there is a trend in the cable internet industry where they are starting to charge by usage, instead of flat monthly fees, so what I'm saying is if that trend continues, that could really negate the benefit of having a on demand gaming service. You can't deny that this type of streaming is going to add a huge amount of data through the pipes, and we've seen how the cable internet companies react to people who they think are using too much bandwidth. (Also, I havent even factored in faster DSL connections, which I know are more expensive than 54 per month.) So in one way yes, it's a double dip. In another way, the trends point to a usage based internet fee, which doesn't work in OnLive's favor.

h3llbringer - lol, yeah, I have a 30 dollar 13 month card, but I do think it will be some sort of monthly fee around 8-15 bucks, comparable to Netflix, or Gamefly, or XBL.

i_bent_my_wookie - My cats breath smells like cat food. Also, I think the Xbox/PS3/Wii are doing what the Phantom originally intended with their markektplaces. I don't think downloadable games have caught on with everybody, but things like Flower or Castle Crashers are pretty impressive for downloadables. Then there's Steam, which makes it insanely easy for me to impulsively buy full games.

aihuman - Actually, you're totally correct, the iPhone doesn't get bricked when the subscription is canceled. I'll go back and edit my post, thanks. Looks like its only bricked if you never activate it?

JasonPaul - I'm rooting for the service, for what its worth. Latency issues aside, I'm a little more worried about consumer devices that are subscription based. Especially those which you can lose the right to your content if your subscription lapses. I guess i would be more comfortable with ItsMeMarks "large monthly fee" solution, and look at it like a competitor to Gamefly, but it's still not exactly the same thing as owning the hardware and software, no matter the network or economic conditions in your home. Also I imagine that nobody else would be able to use the internet in your house while you were gaming? That kills my ping in an online game if somebody is on youtube or something.

Again, thanks everybody who commented, I really appreciate it.
KingHippp0's Avatar
Thomas 96 - Get an Y Splitter! That's actually not a bad point, I listen to my iPod while playing xbox all the time... I imagine there could be a way to do it through the software, if they were thinking about it... its got 2 USB ports on the back right?
KingHippp0's Avatar
I found the data per hour. According to kotaku it's 350 MB for SD, and 950 MB per hour for HD.

http://kotaku.com/5208203/online-gam...warner-pricing

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