Ryan saying that Obama offers no plans yet offering no specifics himself may be the craziest moment of hypocrisy I have seen.

Ryans closing statement feels like a cross between one of his commercials and a closing segment of a 60 minutes article.

Any anti abortion Supreme Court nominee would never even make it to a vote let alone get confirmed, that issue is nothing more than scaremongering.

Originally Posted by dafoomie Any anti abortion Supreme Court nominee would never even make it to a vote let alone get confirmed, that issue is nothing more than scaremongering.

Does not change the fact that they want it.

Originally Posted by cancerman1120 Does not change the fact that they want it.

Doesn't change the fact that they can't get it.

And I'm sorry, the two wars plus the Bush tax cuts did not cause the housing crisis.

A Romney victory assumes gains in both houses. In that situation, they would be much closer to confirmation.

They dont need to explicitly ban abortion either. Many states are working on effectively banning it by putting up ridiculous hurdles, which may or may not be decided Constitutional. Mississippi has exactly one clinic left in the entire state that is only still open by judicial order.

Overturning Roe wouldnt be a ban anyway. It would just return it to the states (i.e. banning it in the South).

They got Alito & Roberts and Dems couldn't get their shit together to filibuster either of those nominees. So no, dafoomie.

Originally Posted by IRHari They got Alito & Roberts and Dems couldn't get their shit together to filibuster either of those nominees. So no, dafoomie.

I must've forgotten those dark days of the vehemently pro life Bush administration where women had to get coat hanger abortions in back alleys. Oh wait, that didn't happen. The Democrats were even filibustering Bush's appeals court nominees in those days.

Roberts was confirmed with 78 votes, he was the compromise candidate. Pro lifers don't like Alito because of his track record of upholding Roe v Wade for a decade as an appellate judge. He's not an anti abortion crusader and thats why their hastily organized filibuster failed.

Originally Posted by dafoomie This statistic that Biden keeps reciting, 98% of small businesses make less than $250k, is extremely misleading. You're including micro businesses in that number like the people who are now required to pay taxes on their ebay businesses and virtually all of them don't have any employees.

Fair enough, go ahead and define small business for the group... I'll be putting some popcorn in the nuker while I wait.

so was it worth watching or was it just 90 mins of them blabbing about nothing

I'm pretty sure its not worth watching unless you really just have the free time or are deathly curious. Any good zingers or exchanges will bubble up in the news as they get around to analyzing and fact checking things.

I havent watched either debate, and I dont plan to watch any of the future ones. I'm not an undecided voter and I feel like I already know both sides' answers to a comfortable degree. There really shouldnt be a lot of mystery here.

Originally Posted by Dr Mario Kart I'm pretty sure its not worth watching unless you really just have the free time or are deathly curious. Any good zingers or exchanges will bubble up in the news as they get around to analyzing and fact checking things. I havent watched either debate, and I dont plan to watch any of the future ones. I'm not an undecided voter and I feel like I already know both sides' answers to a comfortable degree. There really shouldnt be a lot of mystery here.

I know what you mean...I enjoy it because I'm a huge political junkie. It's also like watching WWF.

Lots of coded language from Ryan though. You can kinda tell how he was toning down the language of his rhetoric to make it more palatable.

I tried to watch one of the primary debates, but I really couldnt deal with it for long. I dont expect the situation has changed. I consider myself to a be a political junkie, but I cant tolerate listening to Ryan or Romney for very long in one sitting. Hearing clips from the news is about as much as I can do.

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Originally Posted by dohdough I know what you mean...I enjoy it because I'm a huge political junkie. It's also like watching WWF. Lots of coded language from Ryan though. You can kinda tell how he was toning down the language of his rhetoric to make it more palatable.

I love how this all comes down to a race to the middle, that's really what it is. Starting out, each candidate couldn't be more different, but by the time you get to this point it really comes down to just a few differences.

Originally Posted by Dr Mario Kart I tried to watch one of the primary debates, but I really couldnt deal with it for long. I dont expect the situation has changed. I consider myself to a be a political junkie, but I cant tolerate listening to Ryan or Romney for very long in one sitting. Hearing clips from the news is about as much as I can do.

All they've done is lighten up the language and the messages are still the same. One thing I've noticed is that Democratic narrative and message control is A LOT tighter this particular cycle. 2 years ago, it was total shit.

This was a good warm up for me to watch Stewart vs O'Reilly, which will probably be more exciting.

I dont know how pundits and media people can stomach sitting through one of these things in person or in close proximity. To sit there quietly and just get flagrantly lied to from beginning to end. It has to be insulting. How do you not go Joe You Lie apeshit before storming out?

Originally Posted by Clak I love how this all comes down to a race to the middle, that's really what it is. Starting out, each candidate couldn't be more different, but by the time you get to this point it really comes down to just a few differences.

I thought they couldn't be more different tonight, but "the middle" is dumb and by that, I mean they're stupid morons.

And the interviews! Most of the media know that the Romney tax plan is mathematically impossible garbage. And yet they ask for specific exemptions. They shouldnt be asking that. They should be explaining to the candidates face and all who are watching that their plan is bullshit.

Because your average $32k nimrod can't figure out that their 6.5% effective tax rate at a 15% bracket is significantly less than a 12% effective rate at the Romey 20% rate reduction. They just hear "taxes go down" and then flip back over to the kardashibooboos or whatever it is these days.

If either Ryan or Romney would have the balls to step up and say "these are the deductions that we're targeting" then I wouldn't hammer this point. Instead, they leave it to conjecture and it isn't terribly difficult to assume that they'll squeeze any little guy deduction while keeping deductions in play for the 7 figure or more crowd.